BORING A GSR OVER QUESTIONS>>>> HELP

[nelson9995]

ok guys.... I have 82mm pistons and rings... also, I was wondering if the bearings all will still be STD size, and does the headgasket need to be a 82 mm..??

[EmminoDaGreat]

you need an 82mm head gasket, and whatever you spec your bearings too... but sounds like if you are doing this yourself you should research..

[nelson9995]

you need an 82mm head gasket, and whatever you spec your bearings too... but sounds like if you are doing this yourself you should research..

OKay thanks... Nothing will be done to the rods... What do you mean whatever I spec my bearings to. will std size work?

[EmminoDaGreat]

Ya measure clearances...

[Starrfire]

LOL there is no standard size bearing, maybe middle of the line but no standard.

[nelson9995]

Ya measure clearances...


LOL there is no standard size bearing, maybe middle of the line but no standard.

dang I'm just more confused.... I've been researching believe me but I cant find nothing about this....
Can one of you guys explain it simple... sorry for my ignorance...

Okay I bought one of those ebay NPR pr3 pistons kit.... I bought STD SIZE everything.... I returned the pistons and rings to a 82mm... So now I have everything the std size kit bring but with 82mm pistons...Im getting a bigger headgasket.... is there anything else I need to change???

[Starrfire]

Bearings, there isn't a standard size, unless its green or yellow maybe that counts.

[nelson9995]

Bearings, there isn't a standard size, unless its green or yellow maybe that counts....

i understand that part.... my concern is whether im going to have to return the pistons also to receive a different size or will the ones I have work... They are the ones I got on the kit without specifing size

[Black4DrEK]

The "standard" bearing size you have should be good...You need your Crankshaft checked, And might as well get your rods reconditioned also.. Then you will know exactly the size, if they need to be "oversized".

[Starrfire]

There is no guarantee that the "standard" size you have will be good on every journal. At least plastiguage them. Then the real way to tell is to actually measure the inside diameter of the main, then the crank, and then the specific bearing will be an easy pick. Honda's aren't like old muscle cars.

[nelson9995]

There is no guarantee that the "standard" size you have will be good on every journal. At least plastiguage them. Then the real way to tell is to actually measure the inside diameter of the main, then the crank, and then the specific bearing will be an easy pick. Honda's aren't like old muscle cars.

okay I understand now. Thanks man


The "standard" bearing size you have should be good...You need your Crankshaft checked, And might as well get your rods reconditioned also.. Then you will know exactly the size, if they need to be "oversized".

thanks I got it now

[DirtyMechanic]

There is no guarantee that the "standard" size you have will be good on every journal. At least plastiguage them. Then the real way to tell is to actually measure the inside diameter of the main, then the crank, and then the specific bearing will be an easy pick. Honda's aren't like old muscle cars.

i would not use plastigauge on new bearings.... or any bearing for that matter. it has been know damage bearings especially if they are soft.

[SPOOLIN]

Yes there is a standard size. Honda is one of the few companies that will take the standard size and then make a few sizes each direction from it. The honda Green is the standard size for a honda. You can run all standard if you like but you need to measure the given clearance accurately to make sure that the standard size in going to be within usable limits. Thank You.

To measure accurately, you need a micrometer and a bore gauge. Micrometer at the very least...you can measure a bore with a micrometer but you have to find the smallest and largest numbers depending on whether its a journal or a bearing end. I've done this and measured accurately even though its not recommended.

Plastigauge will only yield an estimate, its worse IMO than using just a micrometer.

[Black4DrEK]

^ Yup

:goodjob:

[Jenson]

Thank you Spoolin for schooling these kids...I was having a panic attack reading this thread. OP, if you need all your stuff measured just lmk. FYI, engine builders call this blue printing just so they can charge you for it, they really arent doing anything extra. I'd also recomend having the rotating assembly balanced, and if possible not using 82mm unless your block is already at 81.5mm. Just incase you blow it up later your block will be able to be re-bored to 82 and you wont have to find another one. IIRC 82mm is the safe limit...could be wrong on that though

[nelson9995]

Thank you Spoolin for schooling these kids...I was having a panic attack reading this thread. OP, if you need all your stuff measured just lmk. FYI, engine builders call this blue printing just so they can charge you for it, they really arent doing anything extra. I'd also recomend having the rotating assembly balanced, and if possible not using 82mm unless your block is already at 81.5mm. Just incase you blow it up later your block will be able to be re-bored to 82 and you wont have to find another one. IIRC 82mm is the safe limit...could be wrong on that though

how much to measure all that?? and do you only need to look at the rods?


^ Yup

:goodjob:
thanks

Yes there is a standard size. Honda is one of the few companies that will take the standard size and then make a few sizes each direction from it. The honda Green is the standard size for a honda. You can run all standard if you like but you need to measure the given clearance accurately to make sure that the standard size in going to be within usable limits. Thank You.

To measure accurately, you need a micrometer and a bore gauge. Micrometer at the very least...you can measure a bore with a micrometer but you have to find the smallest and largest numbers depending on whether its a journal or a bearing end. I've done this and measured accurately even though its not recommended.

Plastigauge will only yield an estimate, its worse IMO than using just a micrometer.

thank you man I understand now...

Thank you all for your help

[Jenson]

If you bring me all the stuff and come back to pick it up, $25. Im pretty out of the way for you. Technically the machine shop you use to bore and hone the block should be able to measure everything and give you the dimensions. All that is needed is to measure the bore of the mains in the block and the BE of the rod. Then you measure the crank journal diameters, and using the tolerances you/factory/engine builder desire you order bearings. ACL's are all green. Heres a chart for ya

BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)

BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness

Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”

Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”

As you can see, green is the middle of the road for both and is the safest choice if you decide not to measure and just hope for the best. I have measured at least 3 bottom ends that actually needed all green's. I can only remeber 2 that needed all kinds of different colors, most will have one or two different colors other than green. General rule of thumb, if the motor has not suffered anything detrimental to its well being then greens "should" work. There's always that rare case that you have a crank/block that was machined on a wearing set of inserts from the factory.

[Starrfire]

^^^That is a great rule of thumb. i used ACL race bearings which are basically green one in the previous engine I built for someone. All clearances perfect at about .0015. But the next engine for myself I bought the same bearings and the clearances were all over the place. I could have only used the #3 cap if I wanted to but just decided since I had to change out 4 others just to use a honda set on that one as well. But all the rod bearings were fine with green/Acl race. But as far as you doing it yourself OP, I'd let a professional go ahead and mic everything for you.That way if it fails it falls on them not your inexperience, understand? GL bro.

[DirtyMechanic]

Thank you Spoolin for schooling these kids...I was having a panic attack reading this thread. OP, if you need all your stuff measured just lmk. FYI, engine builders call this blue printing just so they can charge you for it, they really arent doing anything extra. I'd also recomend having the rotating assembly balanced, and if possible not using 82mm unless your block is already at 81.5mm. Just incase you blow it up later your block will be able to be re-bored to 82 and you wont have to find another one. IIRC 82mm is the safe limit...could be wrong on that though

blueprinting is no where near the same as just building a motor and making sure the clearances are ok to run.


Blueprinting
In engine blueprinting, all the specifications are double-checked. Usually this indicates closer-than-factory tolerances, with custom specifications appropriate for a street car or a race car. The goals are to either to re-manufacture the engine put out the rated power for its manufacturer's design (because not all mass-production engines put out the rated power), or rebuild the engine to make more power from a given design than otherwise intended (because custom engines can often be redesigned to different specifications). Blueprinted components allow for a more exact balancing of reciprocating parts and rotating assemblies so that less power is lost through excessive engine vibrations and other mechanical ineffiencies.

Ideally, blueprinting is performed on components removed from the production line before normal balancing and finishing. If finished components are blueprinted, there is the risk that the further removal of material will weaken the component. However, lightening components is generally an advantage in itself provided balance and adequate strength are both maintained, and more precise machining will in general strengthen a part by removing stress points, so in many cases performance tuners are able to work with finished components.

For example, an engine manufacturer may list a piston ring end-gap specification of 0.003 to 0.005 inches for general use in a consumer automobile application. For an endurance racing engine which runs hot, a "blueprinted" specification of 0.00045 to 0.00050 may be desired. For a drag-racing engine which runs only in short bursts, a tighter 0.00035 to .00040 inch tolerance may be used instead. Thus "Blueprint" can mean tighter or looser clearances, depending on the goal.

[Jenson]

I never said blueprinting was just building a motor, we are talking about measuring tolerances for his main and rod bearings. Im saying most "engine builders" who dont know what they are doing will charge you for "blueprinting" an engine when all they are really doing is measuring these tolerances. Ive seen a lot who dont even bother to degree in the cams. IMO if someone is charging you to "blueprint" your engine they either A. dont know what they are doing or B. charging you for something twice because by your definition, blueprinting should be included in the build of the engine. If someone is paying me to build them a B16 to handle 45psi, then Im not goint to set it up to factory ring gaps, and if its a B16 for an all motor road race car Im not going to throw in a stock crank, its going to get lightened and re-balanced. Or an LS1 with milled heads and a .650 lift cam, are you saying I should charge extra to make sure the cam doesnt contact the piston? Or just throw it all together real quick because the customer didnt pay for blueprinting?

When quoting a motor build I always consider all things IE: what its for, drag, endurance, mile racing, street driving etc. and build accordingly. I also degree in the cam/cams, check PTV, and all other clearances (Ive had to clearance the BE of rods for cams before, and cut many a piston top down so it didnt contact the head), make sure the oil and water pumps are up to the task at hand, fuel system, etc etc etc. Measuring everythign and getting the tolerances correct for the spec of the motor is part of the build, not an extra $150 for blueprinting...I just see all these people who get an engine built and all they can tell me is its bored 30 over and blueprinted.

[SPOOLIN]

I thought blue prints told me how to build some walls. Damn.

[Jenson]

They do, and how to build just about anything, including an engine.