What's Happened To Honda And Acura?

[claybird]

All credit to SteVTEC on the v6performance.net .I just thought i would share the sad truth.



http://v6performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=202405

[TicketRedBB6]

There's been about 3 or 4 of these type of threads on here in last few months. Honda seems to have strictly gone conservative and economical. For awhile, it worked as the economy got worse. Now, it seems like people have gotten tired of it and want something new from Honda. Similar to what the article said. Just my .02

I agree with most of what the article mentioned. Especially the optional engines. People have been able to get a 200hp honda/acura with a k20 since when, 2002 or something? And before that, h22s and b18s had 180-200hp dating back several more years. Same with the TSX and TL, the engines are good but have been around for quite awhile now.

[Mr.Ek9]

My wife and I are in the market for a small to midsize SUV right now and we have not even glanced at honda. KIA and Hyundai are doing it big from the time we have spent around them, and the CRV and Pilot are grossly under-equipped for the prices. Hell 40k plus just to get leather and nav on a pilot... I can get a fully loaded 2011 KIA Sorento for 29k. Honda need to do something quick, or I see them ending up like chevy has for the past 15 years.

[TicketRedBB6]

^Very true. It seems like Honda is only in the running for people wanting economical commuters and Acura is only in the running for slightly luxurious commuters. The Pilot and CRV can't compete anymore. Acuras SUVs can't compete with their high price tag. I like the idea of the Ridgeline a lot but it clearly can't compete. Besides these, they have nothing to offer for anything sporty as the si is aging quickly and the new TL-S is hideous. New accords, fits, and civics are really the only thing they have going IMO and they are fading fast.

[Nerdsrock22]

The Pilot and CRV can't compete anymore.

The CRV essentially created that market and to this day remains the benchmark.

Just some info from 2009.

Ranked by YTD 09
Honda CRV 172528
Ford Escape 153888
Toyota RAV4 132346
Chevy Equinox 73437
Nissan Rogue 70671
Subaru Forester 70558
Subaru Outback 46980
Hyundai Tucson 14508
VW Tiguan 12110

So if by "can't compete", you mean consistently the highest seller, then yes, I agree.

[alpine_aw11]

The CRV essentially created that market and to this day remains the benchmark.

Just some info from 2009.

Ranked by YTD 09
Honda CRV 172528
Ford Escape 153888
Toyota RAV4 132346
Chevy Equinox 73437
Nissan Rogue 70671
Subaru Forester 70558
Subaru Outback 46980
Hyundai Tucson 14508
VW Tiguan 12110

So if by "can't compete", you mean consistently the highest seller, then yes, I agree.

I doubt it will be for long.

[Nerdsrock22]

I doubt it will be for long.

What miracle car is going to unseat the CRV? There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[TicketRedBB6]

The CRV essentially created that market and to this day remains the benchmark.

Just some info from 2009.

Ranked by YTD 09
Honda CRV 172528
Ford Escape 153888
Toyota RAV4 132346
Chevy Equinox 73437
Nissan Rogue 70671
Subaru Forester 70558
Subaru Outback 46980
Hyundai Tucson 14508
VW Tiguan 12110

So if by "can't compete", you mean consistently the highest seller, then yes, I agree.

LOL. Wow. Okay i'm wrong. Are you happy dude? Sorry I don't know the exact history of the CRV. I wasn't dissing it, don't have a problem with it, and was simply misinformed. I apologize for apparently offending you and your vast CRV knowledge. From now on, I'll be sure to consult you on anything regarding Honda I post. I'd hate for you to get your e-panties, with a huge honda emblem no doubt, in a bunch.

Though I was wrong, I was mainly trying to get at the original point of the OP's link. Honda's sales are down a lot as a whole. Ok the CRV is competing, but apparently not enough to keep Honda on top with all this new competition coming.

[Mr.Ek9]

What miracle car is going to unseat the CRV? There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Just because there is nothing wrong with it doesn't mean anything. I believe this year will show that there are many people just like me who have always loved hondas, are finally seeing that brands like KIA and Hyundai offer comparable vehicles with far greater options for the cost. We all know that you are the biggest Honda fanboy on this site, but to be so blinded by that silver H on the front is almost comical. I can think of a car in every class that honda has that not only looks better, but would give me better options for the same price. Its time to break away from the traditional and see that the "newer" companies are doing it big.

[Nerdsrock22]

LOL. Wow. Okay i'm wrong. Are you happy dude? Sorry I don't know the exact history of the CRV. I wasn't dissing it, don't have a problem with it, and was simply misinformed. I apologize for apparently offending you and your vast CRV knowledge. From now on, I'll be sure to consult you on anything regarding Honda I post. I'd hate for you to get your e-panties, with a huge honda emblem no doubt, in a bunch.

Though I was wrong, I was mainly trying to get at the original point of the OP's link. Honda's sales are down a lot as a whole. Ok the CRV is competing, but apparently not enough to keep Honda on top with all this new competition coming.

My post wasn't meant as snarky as you took it dude. I promise. :cheers:

I completely agree with you about all of the Hyundai stuff. I myself am looking at the Genesis since there are currently no Honda offerings that are really grabbing me. I just disagree about the CRV, Pilot, and Odyssey. I believe, and sales show, that those are Honda's greatest offerings. The Civic will be redesigned next year, and that should create a large sales boom, as the current Civic is entering its 6th year.

I think too often we equate "Honda isn't offering anything" with "Honda isn't offering for enthusiasts".

[J-ROCK]

wow i figuered that honda would be up a little father than it is! wow but i also dont like any of the new cars that are out they just look ihdeous IMO the only new car i like is the 370

[Nerdsrock22]

Just because there is nothing wrong with it doesn't mean anything. I believe this year will show that there are many people just like me who have always loved hondas, are finally seeing that brands like KIA and Hyundai offer comparable vehicles with far greater options for the cost. We all know that you are the biggest Honda fanboy on this site, but to be so blinded by that silver H on the front is almost comical. I can think of a car in every class that honda has that not only looks better, but would give me better options for the same price. Its time to break away from the traditional and see that the "newer" companies are doing it big.

My point is not that Honda is doing everything right. Far from it.

The Insight is a joke and a failure.

The Ridgeline, while not a BAD vehicle, is unnecessary and hardly worth the "sacrifice" compared to a real body-on-frame pickup truck.

The CR-Z, based on surface judgment, is not exciting. At all.

HOWEVER.

The Civic, CRV, Accord, and Odyssey are staples and usually considered benchmarks for their classes. While this can vary based on age of model, it is almost always true.

Honda faired best (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/05/by-the-numbers-2008-phew-glad-thats-over-edition/) through the early part of the recession, posting the smallest loss of all major car companies for 2008 year end. As for 2009, "Honda monthly sales were up over 15 percent from last December, but annual sales dropped 19 percent. Total sales were 1.1 million for the year with the Accord, Civic and CR-V leading the pack."

Also, while Hyundai and Kia have shown vast improvement, most reviews put them as "as good" as the competition; which is great, but not game changing.

As for Acura. Now that's a mess.

[Crazy Asian]

Honda and Acura everything is going down for them. Why? None of there cars are exciting and like said before under-equipped for the price, the build quality of Honda's and Acura's have gone considerably down, and far better competition out there now. Im not saying Honda's and Acura's suck; there are the epitome of kings in the import world but they're losing it. There design sucks, innovation sucks...basically everything. Sorry Honda you're going to be overthrown anytime soon probably by the domestics of the Koreans. Nice run but you've lost it

[TicketRedBB6]

My post wasn't meant as snarky as you took it dude. I promise. :cheers:

I completely agree with you about all of the Hyundai stuff. I myself am looking at the Genesis since there are currently no Honda offerings that are really grabbing me. I just disagree about the CRV, Pilot, and Odyssey. I believe, and sales show, that those are Honda's greatest offerings. The Civic will be redesigned next year, and that should create a large sales boom, as the current Civic is entering its 6th year.

I think too often we equate "Honda isn't offering anything" with "Honda isn't offering for enthusiasts".
It's all good man.
I used to live in the "honda sucks, they have nothing fast, etc." mentality. But lately I see the big picture from their point of view as far as economical affordable cars. That's pretty much always been their focus. And for the most part I think they are, until very lately, doing things right. I don't think many companies anticipated these smaller manufacturers(sp) coming up so quickly in popularity. So they kept doing things the same way, riding off of the recession and poor sales from American companies. But I think they got too comfortable, toyota as well as Honda. Toyota is falling apart and a part of me wonders if Honda is far behind? Not necessarily in defects, just overall I wonder.

[Nerdsrock22]

It's all good man.
I used to live in the "honda sucks, they have nothing fast, etc." mentality. But lately I see the big picture from their point of view as far as economical affordable cars. That's pretty much always been their focus. And for the most part I think they are, until very lately, doing things right. I don't think many companies anticipated these smaller manufacturers(sp) coming up so quickly in popularity. So they kept doing things the same way, riding off of the recession and poor sales from American companies. But I think they got too comfortable, toyota as well as Honda. Toyota is falling apart and a part of me wonders if Honda is far behind? Not necessarily in defects, just overall I wonder.

Honda definitely appears to be resting on its success. As I said in a previous thread, the Civic will be the sign of what's to come.

Hyundai and Kia have done an EXCELLENT job of taking advantage of the recession. The have created great products and also capitalized on the "made in America" facets of their business. I have seen and spoken with multiple older "buy American" couples that have purchased Sorentos solely because Kia brought employment opportunities to the fine citizens of GA.

[98blackcivic]

fuck u i still love honda!

[BlkCD5]

Kia and Hyundai are stepping up to the plate, but has anyone ever considered the long term costs of ownership. Often times, the cheaper car usually ends up costing more in insurance and maintenance costs. Honda/Acura really needs to fire their design team. They're honda's that are 15 or more years older that look better than the new ones. :screwy:

[hseries4]

+2 to Nerdsrock22 for approaching this topic with a rational mindset. I'm not saying that nobody else has been rational about it, but all too often people will "ride" an idea in a thread until someone else posts otherwise..an internet bandwagon so to speak. There's not much more to say as of yet, but as a person who has had to dig through the past 3 or 4 years of sales reports and reviews for numerous car manufacturers, Honda hasn't fallen (and isn't sleeping) as much as everyone thinks they have.

The statement "I think too often we equate "Honda isn't offering anything" with "Honda isn't offering for enthusiasts," is the biggest reason for these sort of articles, but I also agree that Honda isn't doing everything perfectly. I know I sound like I'm swinging from Honda's nuts, but my next car is not planned to be a Honda. I do, however, respect the company for what it is and what it has become. Only time will truly tell, though, and I'm just waiting and watching like the rest of the community.

[Nerdsrock22]

Kia and Hyundai are stepping up to the plate, but has anyone ever considered the long term costs of ownership. Often times, the cheaper car usually ends up costing more in insurance and maintenance costs.

While I see your point, I respectfully disagree. The Koreans consistently are reported (http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/cheap-car-insurance-2010.html) as the cheapest cars to insure by insurance studies. Time will tell on whether the 100k powertrain warrantee's hold up to their promises or not.

[BlkCD5]

originally posted by Nerdsrock22
While I see your point, I respectfully disagree. The Koreans consistently are reported as the cheapest cars to insure by insurance studies. Time will tell on whether the 100k powertrain warrantee's hold up to their promises or not.

I forgot to put and/or. A mechanic did tell me about this Hyundai that had a bad engine bearing around 101k miles.

[claybird]

thanks for seeing the point