AT&T TO take 1 BILLION Charge for Healthcare Reform.........

[Vteckidd]

New York, NY, United States (AHN) - AT&T Inc. announced Friday that it plans to take a $ 1 billion non-cash charge in the first quarter due to the health-care reform signed into law this week. The company joins a growing list of U.S. corporations taking such charges.

The nation’s largest telephone company said the charge is because of a change in the tax treatment of Medicare subsidies, a change that has basically eliminated a tax deduction that was used to reduce the cost of drug-benefit programs.

AT&T also said it will look into the health care benefits it offers and consider changes. Prescription drug coverage for retirees may be a target as the tax change for Medicare subsidies directly impacts the cost of providing benefits to this group.

The $1 billion charge is by far the largest announced thus far. Caterpillar said earlier in the week it planned to take a $100 million charge in the current quarter. AK Steel Holding Corp, Valero Energy and Deere & Co. are the other firms to announce planned charges for the health-care changes.

It’s unclear how drastic an impact the charge will have on AT&T’s first quarter earnings, however, it would have eaten up a third of the company’s $3 billion fourth quarter profit.

Remember Obama said "if you like your insurance you can keep it". This is EXACTLY what i was talking about. That was an outright lie as the Healthcare provider IE your JOB will cut an change your benefits when this law got enacted due to their RISING costs.

If a company loses 25% of its PROFITS from this, you really think they will keep the current work force?

[BanginJimmy]

Companies like mine will probably not do it like AT&T because we are basicly a govt contractor, but I have a feeling that our rates will rise drasticly and our benefits will be cut to keep it moderately affordable. We are also in the middle of a very heavy competition with Airbus and if our costs were to rise too much, it would end up doing 1 of 2 things. Lockheed will have to raise the price of the C-130, and other products, to cover the additional personnel costs, or Lockheed will have to stop hiring people and as a result, push back delivery dates on airplanes. Delivery dates are already more than 2 years after the deposit is made.

[preferredduck]

Remember Obama said "if you like your insurance you can keep it". This is EXACTLY what i was talking about. That was an outright lie as the Healthcare provider IE your JOB will cut an change your benefits when this law got enacted due to their RISING costs.

If a company loses 25% of its PROFITS from this, you really think they will keep the current work force?

i read your point today and it seems verivon wireless is saying the same thing along with several healthcare companies, some of which have raised prices for products already this week. let's see what happens cuz my dad has a theory that obama will be a 1 term pres and the next person will do away with the bill, but for now the IRS is hiring 17,000 new employees and has ordered thousands of 12 g shotguns, why you migh ask. well to collect and bully as many people as possible esp if they don't buy insurance. i guess that's obama's only job creation. lose 100,000 jobs from other places and make 17,000 jobs for the IRS, that's bad math if you ask me.

[tony]

Mike what you may want to look into with what you stated is the structure of the Union contracts within AT&T versus the healthcare legislation. I'm under AT&T's healthcare plan (very good one actually) and this is the part of that article you have to take into account:


The nation’s largest telephone company said the charge is because of a change in the tax treatment of Medicare subsidies, a change that has basically eliminated a tax deduction that was used to reduce the cost of drug-benefit programs.

AT&T also said it will look into the health care benefits it offers and consider changes. Prescription drug coverage for retirees may be a target as the tax change for Medicare subsidies directly impacts the cost of providing benefits to this group.

Okay, what they're referring to are retirees who may not have been on the payroll for years and for some decades. The structure of our contract is that AT&T still provides full coverage for individuals that are eligible for Medicare benefits. Think about that, its like I choose to pay your tuition for you instead of you taking the pell grant. But do you know why I chose to pay your tuition? Because I was getting a kickback for it from the government and now since it is being taken away I'm going to claim its costing me multi millions but in reality its just going to force me to cut people off that I should have long ago. This instance is the reason why GM and Dodge had the restructure their contracts.

If you cannot tell I don't have a whole hell of a lot of sympathy for the Union. I get tired of hearing about the retirees when current employees who are productive are getting walked out the door while Mr. 38 years on the payroll unproductive employee is sticking around to pad his pension and retiree benefits.

[Vteckidd]

I'm aware of the retiree benefits that's driving this cost but regardless it's a cost increase right?

[BanginJimmy]

If you cannot tell I don't have a whole hell of a lot of sympathy for the Union. I get tired of hearing about the retirees when current employees who are productive are getting walked out the door while Mr. 38 years on the payroll unproductive employee is sticking around to pad his pension and retiree benefits.


We have a HUGE problem with that at Lockheed also. I would wage a guess that those people cost lockheed 10's of millions every year in unproductive hours, but because of the union, they cant be fired or forced to retire.

[tony]

I'm aware of the retiree benefits that's driving this cost but regardless it's a cost increase right?

Yeah but thats a union problem not a healthcare problem, AT&T puts out this report about the healthcare bill and what it will cost but from my understanding the Government just cut expenditures by removing subsidies for employees that are not even on the payroll. Honestly I can't say I argue against this and I don't see how a fiscal conservative would.

[The Ninja]

^^ Thats because a fiscal conservative that has the slightest grasp on how this bill is going to affect current markets wouldn't argue against this.

[tony]

^^ Thats because a fiscal conservative that has the slightest grasp on how this bill is going to affect current markets wouldn't argue against this.

Markets react on a speculative basis, just the mention of any kind of plan the markets will move. The DJI was up 108 points this week and thats after a drop off from thursday. Going by that alone I'd say its safe to say the Market isn't complaining, but obviously many of you are far more qualified in your opinion than mine..

If you notice, when I disagree with someone's opinion I back my statement up. It's easy to say someone doesn't have a grasp, it takes much more to explain precisely why they don't.

[BanginJimmy]

^^ Thats because a fiscal conservative that has the slightest grasp on how this bill is going to affect current markets wouldn't argue against this.

And anyone with the slightest grasp on this bill would know that your statement wasnt true at all.

[Vteckidd]

Yeah but thats a union problem not a healthcare problem, AT&T puts out this report about the healthcare bill and what it will cost but from my understanding the Government just cut expenditures by removing subsidies for employees that are not even on the payroll. Honestly I can't say I argue against this and I don't see how a fiscal conservative would.


But from what i understand under Bush they got tax breaks or subsidies from the govt for offering this prescription drug benefit or something. Under this new bill, that all goes away, dramatically effecting their expenses.

thoughts?

[Vteckidd]

Markets react on a speculative basis, just the mention of any kind of plan the markets will move. The DJI was up 108 points this week and thats after a drop off from thursday. Going by that alone I'd say its safe to say the Market isn't complaining, but obviously many of you are far more qualified in your opinion than mine..


Well Oreilly did make a good point, where was AT&T and Catepillar the last 6 months? Why are they just now saying how much money it will cost them? Seems to me if they were really against it they would have been out in force.

they need to break the Unions backs somehow

[tony]

But from what i understand under Bush they got tax breaks or subsidies from the govt for offering this prescription drug benefit or something. Under this new bill, that all goes away, dramatically effecting their expenses.

thoughts?

They need to drop those expenses by restructuring Contracts, gearing those contracts toward the current workforce and not the ones of the past. The day when corporations took care of you even after you have left the company is over, this is why there has been a transition from Pension plans to 401k's.

[tony]

Well Oreilly did make a good point, where was AT&T and Catepillar the last 6 months? Why are they just now saying how much money it will cost them? Seems to me if they were really against it they would have been out in force.

they need to break the Unions backs somehow

I agree with this totally, especially as technology changes. With AT&T specifically the market is changing but the contracts do not. People aren't purchasing landlines like they once did, wireless is the future which phases out a considerable amount of the workforce. At the rate they are going to company will be forced to put pressure on the Union.

[Vteckidd]

I agree with this totally, especially as technology changes. With AT&T specifically the market is changing but the contracts do not. People aren't purchasing landlines like they once did, wireless is the future which phases out a considerable amount of the workforce. At the rate they are going to company will be forced to put pressure on the Union.

you work for AT&T right or work with them IIRC?

Im not totally against unions ironically, i think they can serve a purpose. But i think what the unions were originally designed for has long since transitioned into a new service. It seems like the unions now are more about , well congress, for lack of a better word. Solidifying their power base, extorting the company for money, benefits, etc.

AT&T Goes out of business there is no union, union calls a strike there is no AT&T. I dont know the unions need to go, i like to think that there are still some coroprations in the world that would take care of their workers regardless of a union or not

[preferredduck]

you work for AT&T right or work with them IIRC?

Im not totally against unions ironically, i think they can serve a purpose. But i think what the unions were originally designed for has long since transitioned into a new service. It seems like the unions now are more about , well congress, for lack of a better word. Solidifying their power base, extorting the company for money, benefits, etc.

AT&T Goes out of business there is no union, union calls a strike there is no AT&T. I dont know the unions need to go, i like to think that there are still some coroprations in the world that would take care of their workers regardless of a union or not

yeah unions are crazy, my brother is a machinist and worked at maxwell house in jacksonville and right before his grace period to be unionized they screwed him over royally and the older union guys were like a click or something.

[StreetHazard]

you work for AT&T right or work with them IIRC?

Im not totally against unions ironically, i think they can serve a purpose. But i think what the unions were originally designed for has long since transitioned into a new service. It seems like the unions now are more about , well congress, for lack of a better word. Solidifying their power base, extorting the company for money, benefits, etc.

AT&T Goes out of business there is no union, union calls a strike there is no AT&T. I dont know the unions need to go, i like to think that there are still some coroprations in the world that would take care of their workers regardless of a union or not


My girlfriend works for AT&T as a senior web designer in a department of about 80 employees, only her and 9 others are salaried full time employees with medical insurance....the other 70 are contractors that get paid hourly with no benefits. She has stopped even bothering to try to remember any of the contractors names because they are hired then let go so often.

I am not sure what that means, but if there was some kind of "graphic design union" I think I would be the first to sign up.

[SlowEG9]

AT&T union is complete and utter BS...at least on the mobility side...I was termed after not hitting quota due to my vacation time i took off (2 weeks after my sons birth; 1 week at end of October 08 and first week November 09). Due to the timing, once my vacation time was factored, I had hit my qouta but that wasnt the case. Know what the union did? Not shit...Took me two weeks just to get a management meeting AFTER termination. The day it snowed march of last year, I get called into work just to be fired. The ONLY thing they did, is get it in writing were after i'm employed elsewhere, I will be put on rehireable status...now what kind of sense does that make??

On another point, I'm just waiting for them to start raising prices back up while the telecomms industry as a whole have been price battling the last two years.

[StreetHazard]

In georgia we have that whole "right to work" law to make the state palatable for employers, it also means they can just fire your ass if they don't like the look on your face, or if you got that "sass mouth". I'm surprised unions have any sway at all here. Doesn't shock me at all if someone got fired for taking too long to start their family, or taking to much time off unexpectedly regardless of the reason especially in Georgia.

"You shouldn't of had a baby, now your unemployed with a baby.....now get the **** out of my office"

[SlowEG9]

In georgia we have that whole "right to work" law to make the state palatable for employers, it also means they can just fire your ass if they don't like the look on your face, or if you got that "sass mouth". I'm surprised unions have any sway at all in georgia.

Completely agreed..I dont understand it and while i was with AT&T, it didnt do shit but get us hassled constantly...come in and forget to clock in for a meeting? write up. 3 minutes late due to THEIR intranet not working? write up..

Preunion, show up 25 minutes late due to lazyness...not really an issue. But damn...after union, go to the ER after blacking out at work due to a kidney stone...well hell, thats a write up too..

I feel sorry for the people that still work there with insurance raising and constant commission cuts while quota constantly raises

[Vteckidd]

Like i said its a balance of power, and i dont know how to fix it, i dont have any answers really. Seems the Unions can do good , but also A LOT OF BAD. Just like corporations (like google, microsoft, etc) can do really good, and then theres some that do really bad (Enron).

My uncle flies for delta, and basically what the unions have done to the airline industry is bankrupt them. My uncle was flying 90-100 days a year tops, and making $350,000. Basically the unions kept saying they wanted whatever the previous airline contract was +10%. If AMerican negotiated a fat contract, then that meant when Delta came up they wanted American +10% or they strike. My uncle even told us in late 1999 that even in his opinion only the rich of the rich would be able to fly in the next 10 years.

Then 9/11 happened and basically destroyed any hope they had left.

In my view he was overpaid, the market didnt dictate his salary. He will argue otherwise, but he took a 40% paycut, they lost their retirement, etc when Delta went bankrupt. He still has a job, a job that still pays VERY WELL, but their company was losing money at the status quo, so restructuring was inevitable.

You had these huge airlines like American, Delta, Continental, etc all saying they wanted more and more money that it was impossible for them to make less money and still keep the same schedule.


Then someone like Airtran comes along after 9/11 and completely slaughters the majors. I bought stock in America West after 9/11 when it got down to $2 a share. They were a small airline like airtran, no huge unions bogging them down etc. I made a killing on them when their stock soared as rumors of delta and other airlines filing bankruptcy loomed.

those two airlines proved you could run a profitable company and compete with someone like Delta whose unions basically broke their own backs.

[SlowEG9]

Like i said its a balance of power, and i dont know how to fix it, i dont have any answers really. Seems the Unions can do good , but also A LOT OF BAD. Just like corporations (like google, microsoft, etc) can do really good, and then theres some that do really bad (Enron).

My uncle flies for delta, and basically what the unions have done to the airline industry is bankrupt them. My uncle was flying 90-100 days a year tops, and making $350,000. Basically the unions kept saying they wanted whatever the previous airline contract was +10%. If AMerican negotiated a fat contract, then that meant when Delta came up they wanted American +10% or they strike. My uncle even told us in late 1999 that even in his opinion only the rich of the rich would be able to fly in the next 10 years.

Then 9/11 happened and basically destroyed any hope they had left.

In my view he was overpaid, the market didnt dictate his salary. He will argue otherwise, but he took a 40% paycut, they lost their retirement, etc when Delta went bankrupt. He still has a job, a job that still pays VERY WELL, but their company was losing money at the status quo, so restructuring was inevitable.

You had these huge airlines like American, Delta, Continental, etc all saying they wanted more and more money that it was impossible for them to make less money and still keep the same schedule.


Then someone like Airtran comes along after 9/11 and completely slaughters the majors. I bought stock in America West after 9/11 when it got down to $2 a share. They were a small airline like airtran, no huge unions bogging them down etc. I made a killing on them when their stock soared as rumors of delta and other airlines filing bankruptcy loomed.

those two airlines proved you could run a profitable company and compete with someone like Delta whose unions basically broke their own backs.

Look at Ford and GM now...prime examples of unions screwing up things

[BanginJimmy]

yeah unions are crazy, my brother is a machinist and worked at maxwell house in jacksonville and right before his grace period to be unionized they screwed him over royally and the older union guys were like a click or something.

The union at Lockheed is horrible and the older generation will screw over the younger generation in a second and for no reason at all. There is also a VERY obvious double standard in the way the older and newer generations are treated.



My girlfriend works for AT&T as a senior web designer in a department of about 80 employees, only her and 9 others are salaried full time employees with medical insurance....the other 70 are contractors that get paid hourly with no benefits. She has stopped even bothering to try to remember any of the contractors names because they are hired then let go so often.

I am not sure what that means, but if there was some kind of "graphic design union" I think I would be the first to sign up.

Get used to contractors being the majority of workers, no the minority. This has already started in the aviation industry and its going to start everywhere else also. A company cannot be forced to give benefits to someone who isnt their employee.


In georgia we have that whole "right to work" law to make the state palatable for employers, it also means they can just fire your ass if they don't like the look on your face, or if you got that "sass mouth". I'm surprised unions have any sway at all here. Doesn't shock me at all if someone got fired for taking too long to start their family, or taking to much time off unexpectedly regardless of the reason especially in Georgia.

"You shouldn't of had a baby, now your unemployed with a baby.....now get the **** out of my office"

GA being a right to work state is one of the reasons our unemployment isnt looking like Michigan's. North and middle GA are still very manufacturing heavy and if those companies were forced to abide by unionization rules they would have moved out long ago.