To make 200whp+.... what's required?

[teh_mugen18]

Now, some Honda all-motor engines obviously can make 200whp or more, but they in general are not 1.8L's.. I've only heard of one 1.8L all-motor engine making over 200whp and it revved to 9000+ rpms. Now, for Bseries 2.0 blocks, they obviously cannot really handle revving to 9000rpms reliably, so since they don't rev quite as high, and Hondas generally make most of their power through high rpm running, what type of combination should/would be thrown together in order to make a B series engine keep its revs around 8k, and make 200whp+? I've been thinking about this for a while, but I know that there's no guarantees on how much power an engine will make, but no less than 200whp is the goal for my next build, all-motor and I'm not sure what combination would do it.... other than a 12:1CR and a 2.0L block. :dunno:

[speedminded]

Now, some Honda all-motor engines obviously can make 200whp or more, but they in general are not 1.8L's.. I've only heard of one 1.8L all-motor engine making over 200whp and it revved to 9000+ rpms. Now, for Bseries 2.0 blocks, they obviously cannot really handle revving to 9000rpms reliably, so since they don't rev quite as high, and Hondas generally make most of their power through high rpm running, what type of combination should/would be thrown together in order to make a B series engine keep its revs around 8k, and make 200whp+? I've been thinking about this for a while, but I know that there's no guarantees on how much power an engine will make, but no less than 200whp is the goal for my next build, all-motor and I'm not sure what combination would do it.... other than a 12:1CR and a 2.0L block. :dunno:You can make over 200whp with a 1.8L at under 9k RPM's.

[jdm eg99]

not true my brothers b20 vtec "b16 head not gsr" is making 196 whp @ 7800 rpm with bolt ons hitec header s2main gsr tb tuned on chrome data. his stock fuel pump cant push any more ,and the injectors are maxed out once new injectors n 255 fp. 200 + whp. if you want an easy 200+ go with a k.

[Jdm94Coupe]

not true my brothers b20 vtec "b16 head not gsr" is making 196 whp @ 7800 rpm with bolt ons hitec header s2main gsr tb tuned on chrome data. his stock fuel pump cant push any more ,and the injectors are maxed out once new injectors n 255 fp. 200 + whp. if you want an easy 200+ go with a k.

if you want a easy 200+ DO NOT GO WITH A K. For the $ you could've built 2 motors making 200whp

[blown_ss]

Now, some Honda all-motor engines obviously can make 200whp or more, but they in general are not 1.8L's.. I've only heard of one 1.8L all-motor engine making over 200whp and it revved to 9000+ rpms. Now, for Bseries 2.0 blocks, they obviously cannot really handle revving to 9000rpms reliably, so since they don't rev quite as high, and Hondas generally make most of their power through high rpm running, what type of combination should/would be thrown together in order to make a B series engine keep its revs around 8k, and make 200whp+? I've been thinking about this for a while, but I know that there's no guarantees on how much power an engine will make, but no less than 200whp is the goal for my next build, all-motor and I'm not sure what combination would do it.... other than a 12:1CR and a 2.0L block. :dunno:

there are more then this on this website alone. hell vteckidd did it with a stockish b18c5 and didnt take it to 9k.

[NOCLUE]

GOOD THREAD

[jdm eg99]

if you want a easy 200+ DO NOT GO WITH A K. For the $ you could've built 2 motors making 200whp
very true

[jdm_crx_man]

if you want a easy 200+ DO NOT GO WITH A K. For the $ you could've built 2 motors making 200whp
k20 swaps are not that expensive....you just go to budget properly

[Got Milk?]

if you want a easy 200+ DO NOT GO WITH A K. For the $ you could've built 2 motors making 200whp


But, Quality over Quantity. Unless we talking about, well yeah.

[EmminoDaGreat]

turbo! /thread :D

[Jdm94Coupe]

k20 swaps are not that expensive....you just go to budget properly
YES they are, no matter how u cut it, right now they arent worth it. why spend $10k or even close to it to still barely break into the 12's if you're lucky.

But, Quality over Quantity. Unless we talking about, well yeah.
I was simply stating the fact that with all that money you could have a WAY better setup than a k series, what makes them more reliable then my d series? and im making way more then u gonna get with a n/a k series.....

turbo! /thread :D

turbo FTW

[PhantomGoat]

I would say b20 vtec or poor mans type r. thats just my opinion. I got a b20 vtec making around 220 whp. I drive it every day get around 27 mpg and have no issues.

K series is cool if ya got the money!

Just my :2cents:

[JVP]

HEY BRO H22A TURBO MAKE AROUND 250 HP !!!

[Starrfire]

^^^that is horrible power

[S13_Chody]

^^^^ TRUE DAT!

[Da_unknown]

i made 202whp 136ft on a 1.8L..

[Jdm94Coupe]

I would say b20 vtec or poor mans type r. thats just my opinion. I got a b20 vtec making around 220 whp. I drive it every day get around 27 mpg and have no issues.

K series is cool if ya got the money!

Just my :2cents:
k is no longer cool, lol


HEY BRO H22A TURBO MAKE AROUND 250 HP !!!
i made over 250whp and 190 wtq in a SOHC on 12psi.....

^^^that is horrible power
agreed

^^^^ TRUE DAT!
x3

i made 202whp 136ft on a 1.8L..
exactly! no need 4 k series for 200whp.... if u want way more do k and build it

[SUBY_RUE]

If you search for used parts and fab a couple yourself, a k build will run around 6k and 209ish whp.... Ive owned three of them, trust me... I have also owned b series motors, and would say. Stick with the b series, They are soooo much easier to work on and have great potential. 200whp insnt asking to much out of a b18c with a built bottom topped with some cams and a good tune. Look into a vtec motor though, a ls is good only if boosted imo lol... But thats just me :D

[112480]

if you want a easy 200+ DO NOT GO WITH A K. For the $ you could've built 2 motors making 200whp

OH HELL NO! THIS IS NOT TRUE!! I'm doing a FULLY BUILT k20/k24 and it hasnt cost NO WHERE NEAR $10K!!!

[112480]

there are more then this on this website alone. hell vteckidd did it with a stockish b18c5 and didnt take it to 9k.

Yea u right he didnt take it to 9k, HE TOOK IT TO 9500RPMS!!

[BABY J]

LOL at some of the stuff in this thread.

[112480]

k20 swaps are not that expensive....you just go to budget properly

THANK YOU! I dont know who the hell told these guys its still expensive. If u RESEARCH USED/NEW parts on k websites and others u can build a k20/k24 combo for cheaper than a new b18c5 swap!! Now if u trying to get EVERTHING NEW K, THEN! ITS PRICEY.

[112480]

If you search for used parts and fab a couple yourself, a k build will run around 6k and 209ish whp....

Actually u can do it for around $4-6k and get 215-225whp k20/24 with i/h/e and k-pro.

[112480]

turbo! /thread :D

As long as its NOT A F22 TURBO!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[EG_Ryder]

you can buy a complete k24 swap on hmotors for about 4k...or just the block with Intake and exhuast manifold,injectors,engine harness for only 2k...and its not that much to build actually

[112480]

you can buy a complete k24 swap on hmotors for about 4k...or just the block with Intake and exhuast manifold,injectors,engine harness for only 2k...and its not that much to build actually

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

[Jdm94Coupe]

THANK YOU! I dont know who the hell told these guys its still expensive. If u RESEARCH USED/NEW parts on k websites and others u can build a k20/k24 combo for cheaper than a new b18c5 swap!! Now if u trying to get EVERTHING NEW K, THEN! ITS PRICEY.


Actually u can do it for around $4-6k and get 215-225whp k20/24 with i/h/e and k-pro.


As long as its NOT A F22 TURBO!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:


you can buy a complete k24 swap on hmotors for about 4k...or just the block with Intake and exhuast manifold,injectors,engine harness for only 2k...and its not that much to build actually


:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:


the whole point is......... all the money u spend on the k swap, in the end, ur still not fast........

[Starrfire]

especially a k24 swap non type s. I'd rather just do an h22. Just because they K is the newest, doesn't mean its the fastest alternative engine configuration.

[Jdm94Coupe]

especially a k24 swap non type s. I'd rather just do an h22. Just because they K is the newest, doesn't mean its the fastest alternative engine configuration.

agreed, ..... :lmfao:

[Motivation]

HEY BRO H22A TURBO MAKE AROUND 250 HP !!!


Maybe with a massive boost leak. My buddy's boosted h22a STOCK MOTOR hit 32x on 9psi and around 250ish torque.

Anyways, H motors are pretty easy to hit 200whp, as well. It's all on preference of what you want to do, though.

My buddy's ls/v made 208 before his new exhaust and throttle body.

[112480]

the whole point is......... all the money u spend on the k swap, in the end, ur still not fast........

???? OH REALLY!? LOL!! Man ur funny! I tell u what, about a month from now when my car is ready(92 eg hatch k20/24 build) we'll race and then u tell me that a k swap isnt fast:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Wow these b and h series guys:lmfao::lmfao:

And NO ONE said k's r the fastest! There r PLENTY of b's and h2b's that r faster DEPENDING ON THE BUILD OF THE K AND H2B'S ETC ETC. ITS ALL IN WHAT U LIKE!

Funny, k swap guys dont talk shit about b and h series guys but b and h series guys talk ALL THE SHIT IN THE WORLD and try they BEST to justify why doing a k build is a waste of time.

But the funny thing is 5-10years from now when there is something else more powerful than k, the k series swap will b like b and d series then the "b and h" series guys will b k series guys:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

I guess they just dont want to convert now:crazy:

[Vteckidd]

Yea u right he didnt take it to 9k, HE TOOK IT TO 9500RPMS!!

It made 200whp at 8400rpms I revved it higher for simply racing purposes. It was done making peak power well below my redline.

IMO the easiest cheapest way to make 200whp is

1) stock type-r motor with my header
2) h22 jdm motor with bolt ons

even a gsr motor with my header and type-r cams can make it easily

k20s are a waste of money for 200whp. Even if you do budget shop it's still $2000-3000 over a b series swap and a ton more fabrication and work. The only reason to go k series is if you want to make over 230whp on a relatively stock motor. But even then it's more expensive than anything else you could do.

To be honest the BEST combo is h2b. It's substancially cheaper than a k series, can make the same power if not more, it's much easier to swap than a k series, it's just all around better.

There's guys on here with bolt ons and cams in a h23vtec oem Honda motor making 225-245 whp. Show me a k20 or k24 making that kind of power LOCALLY not on the Internet

[112480]

It made 200whp at 8400rpms I revved it higher for simply racing purposes. It was done making peak power well below my redline.

Oh yea! LOL well its still over the 8k mark the guy was asking about.

[112480]

k20s are a waste of money for 200whp. Even if you do budget shop it's still $2000-3000 over a b series swap and a ton more fabrication and work. The only reason to go k series is if you want to make over 230whp on a relatively stock motor. But even then it's more expensive than anything else you could do.

To be honest the BEST combo is h2b. It's substancially cheaper than a k series, can make the same power if not more, it's much easier to swap than a k series, it's just all around better.

There's guys on here with bolt ons and cams in a h23vtec oem Honda motor making 225-245 whp. Show me a k20 or k24 making that kind of power LOCALLY not on the Internet

This is true.

[112480]

There's guys on here with bolt ons and cams in a h23vtec oem Honda motor making 225-245 whp. Show me a k20 or k24 making that kind of power LOCALLY not on the Internet

Oh mike.......... no faith in me huh. LOL! going for 270whp.(before the bottle:ninja:) LOCALLY!

[112480]

Ay mike u think he can get 200whp wit a h2b swap with bolt ons UNDER 8krpms????

[Jdm94Coupe]

???? OH REALLY!? LOL!! Man ur funny! I tell u what, about a month from now when my car is ready(92 eg hatch k20/24 build) we'll race and then u tell me that a k swap isnt fast:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Wow these b and h series guys:lmfao::lmfao:


Funny, k swap guys dont talk shit about b and h series guys but b and h series guys talk ALL THE SHIT IN THE WORLD and try they BEST to justify why doing a k build is a waste of time.


Why wait? Im ready now.... Im not a b/h/k/j/f series guy, im actually a d series guy.(But thats not the point)..... Ok listen and listen closely. K swap guys dont talk about b series or h series guys because after spending all the money on the swap and the million things you have to do to get the damn thing to run they realize they still have to build the motor because its still not fast. Im guessing thats what u did, thats why u had the motor in and pulled it back out to build it. (maybe im wrong, but this is most cases)

BTW everybody in this thread is referring to a stock k series or hybrid swap in a civic or what not. You are referring to a built motor swap (completely different) Anything built should be fast. The point isnt that a built k series isnt fast, the point is that to swap a stock k in you couldve been considerably faster. Yes they are new, and look nice in the engine bay, but most ppl will wait until it becomes cheaper. In 3 years i will probably have a stock k series in my sedan, but for now i'll wait.

im tossing u some reps because i like the fact that u stand by what u believe in.....



k20s are a waste of money for 200whp. Even if you do budget shop it's still $2000-3000 over a b series swap and a ton more fabrication and work. The only reason to go k series is if you want to make over 230whp on a relatively stock motor. But even then it's more expensive than anything else you could do.

That says it all...... reps 4 u 2

[Jdm94Coupe]

Ay mike u think he can get 200whp wit a h2b swap with bolt ons UNDER 8krpms????

my homeboi has 22Xwhp with the stock block on his h2b...... tuned by scotty... i think his revlimiter is 8k

[Jdm94Coupe]

This is true.

how come when mike says it its true, but when i say it its not? lol jk man

[Motivation]

Ay mike u think he can get 200whp wit a h2b swap with bolt ons UNDER 8krpms????


I made 190whp at 7200rpm on stock intake manifold, stock throttle body, stock cam gears, homemade intake, need of a tune up BAD (running rough), and untuned (of tune from factory, no additional tuning, however ya look at it). (mainstream's dyno day)

I have a good header, and stage 1 cams on it.

With the rest of the bolt ons and cams adjusted I can pretty much promise 200whp+ under 8krpms.

[skacore]

Oh mike.......... no faith in me huh. LOL! going for 270whp.(before the bottle:ninja:) LOCALLY!

I have faith, but this isn't a junkyard this is a garage.

[Vteckidd]

Oh mike.......... no faith in me huh. LOL! going for 270whp.(before the bottle:ninja:) LOCALLY!

yOu have a good build I'm interested to see what it makes but if you were only shooting for 200-220whp you spent way too much money lol

but you're trying to make 250+ so to do that with a b series costs way too much. H22 it's prob easier an cheaper still but not enough to make a huge difference.

I don't think there is anyone that will argue that the "old technology" is still competitive and a viable option for street cars. And they make more hp/$

[112480]

Why wait? Im ready now.... Im not a b/h/k/j/f series guy, im actually a d series guy.(But thats not the point)..... Ok listen and listen closely. K swap guys dont talk about b series or h series guys because after spending all the money on the swap and the million things you have to do to get the damn thing to run they realize they still have to build the motor because its still not fast. Im guessing thats what u did, thats why u had the motor in and pulled it back out to build it. (maybe im wrong, but this is most cases)

BTW everybody in this thread is referring to a stock k series or hybrid swap in a civic or what not. You are referring to a built motor swap (completely different) Anything built should be fast. The point isnt that a built k series isnt fast, the point is that to swap a stock k in you couldve been considerably faster. Yes they are new, and look nice in the engine bay, but most ppl will wait until it becomes cheaper. In 3 years i will probably have a stock k series in my sedan, but for now i'll wait.

Actually i came from a turbo'd D series myself. And for my next build i wanted something that not only is fast with basic bolt-ons but has the GREATEST potential. No matter how u shake it a b and even a h22 CANNOT make as much hp as a k build for build. Mean fully built a h22 can produce what mike................... and a fully built k has produce over 330whp ALL MOTOR of course.

And i didnt pull the motor out and build it. LOL, this is my first k swap so instead of just "putting" it together i decided to go ahead and build it the way i want to for now and come back and add more later. FYI, going for 270whp all motor and 400+whp on the bottle(150shot:boobies:). But its built also so later i can put the kraftwerks s/c kit on it WITH the 150 shot and look between 6-700whp depending on which kraftwerks s/c kit i go with.

But ur right this thread is reffering to a 1.8l producing 200who UNDER 8K. So a k WOULD B A WATSE OF MONEY for that goal.

[Vteckidd]

I don't know why the rpm is an argument unless you're on pro3s it's not going to make power deep in 9000 and not without a ported head.

Most stock heads die off around 8200-8500(b/h)

[112480]

how come when mike says it its true, but when i say it its not? lol jk man

LOL, ur right too. reps for u also:goodjob:

[112480]

I made 190whp at 7200rpm on stock intake manifold, stock throttle body, stock cam gears, homemade intake, need of a tune up BAD (running rough), and untuned (of tune from factory, no additional tuning, however ya look at it). (mainstream's dyno day)

I have a good header, and stage 1 cams on it.

With the rest of the bolt ons and cams adjusted I can pretty much promise 200whp+ under 8krpms.

Let's see it:goodjob:

[112480]

I have faith, but this isn't a junkyard this is a garage.

HAHAHA!!! reps for u!

[112480]

I don't know why the rpm is an argument unless you're on pro3s it's not going to make power deep in 9000 and not without a ported head.

Most stock heads die off around 8200-8500(b/h)

Well i dont think the guy is arguing the rpm thing he just wants to know if its possible for a 1.8l to produce 200whp UNDER 8k. Like urs made 200whp at 8400rpms. He wants that UNDER 8k.

[Vteckidd]

No matter how u shake it a b and even a h22 CANNOT make as much hp as a k build for build. Mean fully built a h22 can produce what mike................... and a fully built k has produce over 330whp ALL MOTOR of course.

I disagree. In terms we are talkig about which is street driven cars either motor is capable of big numbers, the h22 is prob easier to do it with, cheaper, and has a better oiling system. Hs have been making over 300whp for years with BAR HONDA race team.

The k20/k24 is the future but it's just not a viable option for most consumers right now.

I've sold 600 b series narrows in a year, 175 h22 drag, 200 h22 hytech, 200 rsx, 250 civicsi



40 k series swap headers.

[112480]

I disagree. In terms we are talkig about which is street driven cars either motor is capable of big numbers, the h22 is prob easier to do it with, cheaper, and has a better oiling system. Hs have been making over 300whp for years with BAR HONDA race team.

The k20/k24 is the future but it's just not a viable option for most consumers right now.

I've sold 600 b series narrows in a year, 175 h22 drag, 200 h22 hytech, 200 rsx, 250 civicsi



40 k series swap headers.

Well yea we're talking about street driven cars. Show us some STREET DRIVEN 300whp H series cars. There a a good(not a lot)number of k swaps that do 300+whp though. DAILY STREET DRIVEN.

[112480]

40 k series swap headers.

Yep i'm one of them:goodjob: Oh ym Go-Power V1R cams come today mike. LOL thats y i'm not at mainstrem dyno day today cause i'm sitting here waiting on damn fedex. Damn signature required packages.........

[112480]

Hey mike correct me if i'm wrong but wont he have to get a b20/vtec to make 200whp at 9k rpms? Cause a b18c5 stock redline is 8400 and even though gsr is 8k, just bolt-ons wont get him 200whp@8k rpms unless u can tell him of some AMAZING cams that will do the trick in a gsr swap. but then again if he do b20/vtec there goes his 1.8l, so i dont know.....:thinking:

What do u think..........

[BABY J]

The bottom line is for what you spend for the basic bolt-on K swap (including all peripherals and support items) I can spec a B/H series K-killer and you will have change left over for dinner.

Now - that B would likely be a little more "high-strung" than the K but will def be streetable. It would also be just as reliable (if not more) when done right. In my sig -- the built B/H is on the left, and the K is on the right :ninja:

[Jdm94Coupe]

In my sig -- the built B/H is on the left, and the K is on the right :ninja:

reps! :lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

300 whp is not a daily driven Car or engine sorry , not in my opinion. K h or b.

B series would be a $30000 motor , h series would be a race engine, k20 would be a race engine. K20/k24 would be borderline race motor IMO. Well we'll see what yours makes, if you make 270whp that'll be impressive but you're still way shy of 300whp.

I think the problem is the k series guys get caught up in numbers and feel like they are embarressed if they don't make a ton more power than a b or h counterpart.

It's just an engine it's slightly better than a b or h butit still operates under the rules of every other engine ever made, volumetric efficiency

My 2.0l lsvtec made 237/159 , chunkys 2.0k20 made 242/164 . Same setups, same disp, same compression , etc

difference is I had huge cams chunky had ips k2s. His motor made the power "easier" if that means anything

[Vteckidd]

Yep i'm one of them:goodjob: Oh ym Go-Power V1R cams come today mike. LOL thats y i'm not at mainstrem dyno day today cause i'm sitting here waiting on damn fedex. Damn signature required packages.........

I think for what you are doing k was a good choice. You also have
money to spend and time to wait to buy what you want. Most people can't do that.

Stupid fedex :p

[BABY J]

I was the "last guy" to go B series. I was still raping Bs with my juiced D - Ds were cheaper - affordable and "bulletproof". You can mistreat a D w/ ignoring maintenance and it will get you home. The Bs had more potential but were finicky and you have to stay on top of maintenance or a B series will tell on you in NO time flat.

Fastforward 15 years and enter the K. We are at the same crossroads as we were w/ the B. To swap or not to swap. The B has decades of R&D out there - the blueprint is there. Just google your desired ET and HP. And for those of you who don't know the B is STILL being developed (fyi).

The K is a beast - make no mistake about it. But it has not come full circle yet and is still not cost-effective hp per $. Yes - you'll have OEM reliability but I am not a fan of beating on OEM parts --- so that is something to consider as well. There are still a few years of K cars that need to be produced and crashed to make it on equal footing IMO.

But at the end of the day build what you wanna build.

[Vteckidd]

Hey mike correct me if i'm wrong but wont he have to get a b20/vtec to make 200whp at 9k rpms? Cause a b18c5 stock redline is 8400 and even though gsr is 8k, just bolt-ons wont get him 200whp@8k rpms unless u can tell him of some AMAZING cams that will do the trick in a gsr swap. but then again if he do b20/vtec there goes his 1.8l, so i dont know.....:thinking:

What do u think..........

if you wanna make over 200whp under 8000 rpms why build a Honda, buy a v8 ;)

I don't understand the wanting to stay under 8000 rpm thing , Honda are made to rev high from lower disp

[112480]

The bottom line is for what you spend for the basic bolt-on K swap (including all peripherals and support items) I can spec a B/H series K-killer and you will have change left over for dinner.

LOL yeah u can spec a fully built "high strung" b/h setup to beat a BASIC BOLT ON K SWAP:lmfao: NOW..... lets mod the the k like the b and h..............

[112480]

Stupid fedex :p

Yea ll me about it!!! its damn 5:35p.m and they STILL HAVENT CAME YET.....

[112480]

if you wanna make over 200whp under 8000 rpms why build a Honda, buy a v8 ;)

I don't understand the wanting to stay under 8000 rpm thing , Honda are made to rev high from lower disp

true:goodjob:

[teh_mugen18]

Lol, wow this thread really took off...


But, my reasoning for asking this question is due to the fact that i have a bare LS block just sitting, and its been sitting for almost 2 years now because i havent completely decided what i want to do with it yet. At first, i had dedicated it 100% to boost because i wanted to have it in a car that would make ~400ish whp daily driven on boost. But, then after a recent ''kill'', I considered the fact that boost (SOMEtimes) isn't really all that its cracked up to be... And that an all motor car with a lot less power, can actually keep up with if not completely spank a turbo car if its putting the power to the ground in a more efficient way, ie. not having to wait on turbos to spool, not worrying about boost leaks, etc. Which lead me back on the path to an ''all motor'' build.

But then there is the fact that it takes somewhat more investment, moneywise, to make a GOOD build that will reliably make power in comparison to building a turbo engine. For example, i calculated a future build that i thought about doing and it was going to cost ~$3,000 to get it built to make ~200 or so whp... vs a similar amount of $ invested in some forged pistons/rods, and a custom turbo setup would possibly net me up to 300-400whp. So it threw me back into the loop of wanting to boost an engine.

Im kinda confused, if y'all couldn't tell already. :crazy:

EDIT: and as for the bare LS block, if i do an all motor build on it, i would bore it out to 2.0 before building it as well.

[Jdm94Coupe]

Lol, wow this thread really took off...


But, my reasoning for asking this question is due to the fact that i have a bare LS block just sitting, and its been sitting for almost 2 years now because i havent completely decided what i want to do with it yet. At first, i had dedicated it 100% to boost because i wanted to have it in a car that would make ~400ish whp daily driven on boost. But, then after a recent ''kill'', I considered the fact that boost (SOMEtimes) isn't really all that its cracked up to be... And that an all motor car with a lot less power, can actually keep up with if not completely spank a turbo car if its putting the power to the ground in a more efficient way, ie. not having to wait on turbos to spool, not worrying about boost leaks, etc. Which lead me back on the path to an ''all motor'' build.

But then there is the fact that it takes somewhat more investment, moneywise, to make a GOOD build that will reliably make power in comparison to building a turbo engine. For example, i calculated a future build that i thought about doing and it was going to cost ~$3,000 to get it built to make ~200 or so whp... vs a similar amount of $ invested in some forged pistons/rods, and a custom turbo setup would possibly net me up to 300-400whp. So it threw me back into the loop of wanting to boost an engine.

Im kinda confused, if y'all couldn't tell already. :crazy:

EDIT: and as for the bare LS block, if i do an all motor build on it, i would bore it out to 2.0 before building it as well.

what chassis? what block/head/tranny are in it now?

[teh_mugen18]

what chassis? what block/head/tranny are in it now?


right now, its in a DB1 chassis with an LS trans, stock internal LS block, and GSR head. It didn't make quite as much power as what i was expecting it to make though. :dunno:

lol, its my first ''build'', sortof.

[bigdare23]

Now, some Honda all-motor engines obviously can make 200whp or more, but they in general are not 1.8L's.. I've only heard of one 1.8L all-motor engine making over 200whp and it revved to 9000+ rpms. Now, for Bseries 2.0 blocks, they obviously cannot really handle revving to 9000rpms reliably, so since they don't rev quite as high, and Hondas generally make most of their power through high rpm running, what type of combination should/would be thrown together in order to make a B series engine keep its revs around 8k, and make 200whp+? I've been thinking about this for a while, but I know that there's no guarantees on how much power an engine will make, but no less than 200whp is the goal for my next build, all-motor and I'm not sure what combination would do it.... other than a 12:1CR and a 2.0L block. :dunno:

You don't need to rev the piss out of your motor to make power. Look at me I made 200hp slightly below 7k. You just need to choose parts that work well together.

It's kinda easy to make 200hp with a 1.8L (in my opinion). I would take a 1.8L and install at least p30 pistons and arp rod bolts. You will need to increase the volumetric flow rate of the air entering the engine. A 3in intake, 65-70mm throttle body, and decent intake manifold will do that. I would add a velocity stack to reduce the turbulence in the air flow. Since more air (and faster) is coming in the engine, you will want to increase the rate that it exits. A header with a 2.5in collector, and at least a 2.5in exhaust will achieve that goal. As for cams, most manufacturers give the rpm range where their cam make power at, so look at the specs of cams and chose a cam that will make power in the rpm range you plan on revving your motor to. Also, your power band can be adjusted with cam gears. So you can get a bigger cam, but adjust your power band to your optimum range. So once you get tuned, you can ask your tuner to adjust your cam gear so that your power is where you want it. For an example, a good friend of mines has a b16b with BC spec III. Originally he made 180/125 with the cams set at 0,0. The tuner adjusted is cams to +1,-3 (I believe), he made 179/133. He lost hp and gain torque, but what was significant was his peak power dropped 500rpms giving him a better power band.

Also, you can guarantee 200hp with a valve job or/and port work.

Hope you achieve your goal :goodjob:

[BABY J]

^^ Great add Dare.

To the OP:

Do not get so caught up on the 200whp mark though in your build unless it's a personal goal of yours. Make sure you engineer some engine response into your setup as well w/ a well designed free-flowing head loaded w/ some good lightweight gear. I am simply ingesting and exhaling more air at a faster rate - PERIOD. W/ more air, I add more fuel - just add spark and bam... snowball effect as long as your cams don't roll over. I compared my graph (MPH ONLY) to some 200+ hp setups and my engine still makes FASTER power/tq than some high-revving others. I am MANY miles/hr faster at the same point in a pull in the same gear than cars that make more power than me... that's why some1 called it the VTEC killer in another thread. LOL. What do you think will happen in a pull if I make FASTER/QUICKER use of my power? PWNED (unless we went all out and then their peak power/tq steals the show. BY then though the point is proven). Their peak power trumps mine - but I get to 100mph (just below my trap in the 1/2) MUCH faster. So there is lots to consider other than HP. SPEND THE MONEY ON PROPER PORTWORK!!!! It's money well spent.

www.team4piston.com

www.stewartengines.com

[Starrfire]

Ay mike u think he can get 200whp wit a h2b swap with bolt ons UNDER 8krpms????


I did, 215 not even over 8k. Bolt ons only.

[speedminded]

Well i dont think the guy is arguing the rpm thing he just wants to know if its possible for a 1.8l to produce 200whp UNDER 8k. Like urs made 200whp at 8400rpms. He wants that UNDER 8k.The original post says 9000...several times, nothing about 8000.


Hey mike correct me if i'm wrong but wont he have to get a b20/vtec to make 200whp at 9k rpms? Cause a b18c5 stock redline is 8400 and even though gsr is 8k, just bolt-ons wont get him 200whp@8k rpms unless u can tell him of some AMAZING cams that will do the trick in a gsr swap. but then again if he do b20/vtec there goes his 1.8l, so i dont know.....:thinking:

What do u think..........You can get over 200whp with a b20 VTEC @ 8k rpm's if you want but it will require the block to be bored (Stock internals like RSX Type-S pistons with B-series rods ;) ) and a built head (b16 p&p Skunk2 stage 2 internals).

Welcome to 2004. I posted the dyno vid on our car over 5 years ago.

[jerseyef9]

Actually u can do it for around $4-6k and get 215-225whp k20/24 with i/h/e and k-pro.

that sad k20/k24 with only 225:thinking::lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

that sad k20/k24 with only 225:thinking::lmfao:

Not really cause it's prob 225/170 haha

with your current mods you're looking at spending a lot of money for not a lot of gain. You basically have a bare ls block and a gsr head. You basically have nothing.

If all you care about is being fast or having a quick car for fucks sake stop all this boost or all motor talk and listen to what I said 10 threads ago, SUPERCHARGE it.

$1000-1200 for supercharger, 5-6psi make 220-230whp easily

[Jenson]

EDIT: and as for the bare LS block, if i do an all motor build on it, i would bore it out to 2.0 before building it as well.


Must sleeve to "bore out" to 2.0L. Or get a stroker crank. If you want to stay all motor, ditch the LS block and go H2B.

Screw a $1000 supercharger, $500 N2O kit will easily get you 200Whp, and more torque than a 300Whp turbo setup. And you get the reliability of a standard engine for DD. :2cents:

[Vteckidd]

Supercharger is more reliable then n2o no Honda guys do n2o correctly a $500 nitrous kit isn't doing it right

your old gsr plate kit was doingit rigt

Jenson = nitrous king

[BABY J]

Plate kits for GSRs are not uncommon especially since no1 makes them for any other Honda block. A single nozzle will flow up to a 150 shot - no1 runs kits with more than that (other than me that I know of) so that's why you see no1 with a plate. There are 3 guys that I know of with direct shots on this board - out of the 3, no1 is running a controller but me. The ONLY other guy I know on IA running a controller is only on a 75 shot. Nitrous "done right" WILL have a controller if you wanna run it from the dig. Nitrous done right WILL have a heater if done right - and if you"re really a baller nitrous done right will have a nitrogen push if you want it to be consistent - I do not know of a SINGLE fwd import in Ga that has ran a nitrogen push. If ur doing nothing but rolls pass on the controller - if u wanna dig and spray its MANDATORY for fwd unless all u care about is mile-an-hour - you'll mile-anhour regardless w/out a controller even if you run 14.50s - lol. 15.0 @ 137mph is always fun to see - haha. Nitrous is the big equalizer and always will be. I saw a stock LS go 198hp and 172ft lbs on an untuned sub 100hp shot through a single nozzle.

[BABY J]

And when I say controller - I mean RPM based - not a $100 timer. If u lose traction or miss a gear with a timer the entire ramping is off. RPM based controllers always put you back where ytou belong so you can salvage the run.

I agree with Jenson on the nitrous comments - however gas is more maintenance and hassles opposed 2 the blower. Blowers really need displacement 2 be effective so anything sub 2liters I wouldn't do it - and they create a lot of heat. Even with that said th SC is less cumbersome - no driving to get a fill - wondering if this fill is as "strong" as the last - etc. But dollar per hp nitrous trumps a lot of power adders. You have to think "how often am I REALLY racing in any given week". If it's a lot - then stick with a snail or a blower - but if it's every now and then spend $300 on a decent street kit, adjust your timing and go hunting.

[Jenson]

You can easily get a $250-300 used 5177 kit, add a heater $99 (if it doesnt have one), $250 FJO controller, 3 more nozzles ($15 each IIRC) and have a "baller" direct port dry kit. I bought my plate off H-T for $75 lol, and come to think of it I think Peter or B (gold hatch) has it now for some reason. I believe they discontinued the plate in 08, could be wrong though. I could never get a single nozzle to distribute properly ie: always hit #3 hard. You definately dont need a controller for a 75 shot, just some 24" slicks. I made 228 Whp on a stock B18C1 with a greddy header, hot air intake, 2.25 RSr exaust catback, and a vtec controller with a 75shot. An ignition is a must though to get rid of the fuel cut, so do add another $200 minimum for that.

I dont see how a supercharger is more reliable, its always there, even more than a turbo. The bottle can just sit at home all week leaving you with a stock engine. I ran the 75 shot for over a year with zero issues, stock injectors, walbro 255 pump.

Baby J, you running a seperate fuel system for the bottle? I never got to that point but my buddy did. I do always forget that back then, I filled up so much it became free at some point and we would just go fill our own bottles...those were the days. But back to all motor, H2B all the way!!

[BABY J]

I got my shit rocked by a semi-built H2B hatch in Indianapolis - bolted up, cams, tunedn gutted on a jdm b16 gearset with lsd. They are definitely on my radar now after that - lol.

[112480]

that sad k20/k24 with only 225:thinking::lmfao:

LOL! ARE u f-ing kidding me........... Thats SIMPLE BOLT-ONS!! INTAKE! HEADER! EXHUAST! AND K-PRO!........ What damn B or H or H2b swap with THOSE SAME MODS can give u 225WHP AND 165-175WTQ!!??????????????????????????????????????????

[bigdare23]

LOL! ARE u f-ing kidding me........... Thats SIMPLE BOLT-ONS!! INTAKE! HEADER! EXHUAST! AND K-PRO!........ What damn B or H or H2b swap with THOSE SAME MODS can give u 225WHP AND 165-175WTQ!!??????????????????????????????????????????


I have seen a few bolt-on h-series with 165-175lb-tq...

[all-mota]

some good and bad info in this thread.


my advice is do all of them and see which one you like best haha.

[112480]

I have seen a few bolt-on h-series with 165-175lb-tq...

WITH JUST i/h/e and tuned?????????? 225WHP ALSO??????????????????

[Jdm94Coupe]

LOL! ARE u f-ing kidding me........... Thats SIMPLE BOLT-ONS!! INTAKE! HEADER! EXHUAST! AND K-PRO!........ What damn B or H or H2b swap with THOSE SAME MODS can give u 225WHP AND 165-175WTQ!!??????????????????????????????????????????

the whole problem with the statement is that you have to compare the $ spent. You can't build a $10k motor and say "your $5k b swap isnt faster than mine" ........... the point is, it shouldnt be as fast.... money=power=speed ..... the problem with a k is that you have to spend double the money..... no matter how u cut it, used parts or fucking stolen parts, its not cheap! lol

[Vteckidd]

Mike jones, mainstreams prelude, and Jason Wallace all had h23 vtecs with skunk2 cams, header, intake manifold making 220-230whp

most bolt on k20s even with cams barely make over 215 locally. You see how much everyone makes on here.

Ejohnson barely makes 195whp with a $1000 header , rbc , kpro etc. Kizdaway barely makes over 220 ( based on what he said and others said) with bolt ons an cams. You don't see very many people cresting 220whp even with bolt on k series.

The only k20/k24 locally was that jay kid and he had an inline pro motor , stage 3s , ssr header and made 255, not very impressive IMO

[teh_mugen18]

with your current mods you're looking at spending a lot of money for not a lot of gain. You basically have a bare ls block and a gsr head. You basically have nothing.



this is true, lol, i realize that now....

When i was building it, i thought i was doing good and at the time was debating if i was going to run boost on the stock block or not, which was going to determine which piston i was going to put in the block. I think its obvious which choice i took..lol...and which im slightly regretting at this point. FI might be the best thing to do with my current block, since im not tearing it down again to put high comp pistons in it.


And all my questioning is for my next build lol, not this one. This one's already behind me as far as im concerned; its been built, put in the car, tuned, and its running. It makes a certain amount of power based on its composure which at the time I overestimated the amount it was going to make, and im slightly disappointed as a result. So here I am, back on the drawing board. :goodjob:

[Starrfire]

WITH JUST i/h/e and tuned?????????? 225WHP ALSO??????????????????


Have you looked at many good h22 dyno's? Tuned right they make killer power if healthy. Shit mine was an old smoking jdm h22a with stock bottom end and cams and bolt ons and I made 215/160. Its not a stretch to say if the engine was in better shape that it could have made better power. It was on crower stage 2's which aren't known for making exceptional power.

Hell I've seen basically more stock engines making this kinda power with I/H/E and a good tune.

[112480]

Have you looked at many good h22 dyno's? Tuned right they make killer power if healthy. Shit mine was an old smoking jdm h22a with stock bottom end and cams and bolt ons and I made 215/160. Its not a stretch to say if the engine was in better shape that it could have made better power. It was on crower stage 2's which aren't known for making exceptional power.

Hell I've seen basically more stock engines making this kinda power with I/H/E and a good tune.

post them up if u can and for ur old "smoking" setup that made 215/160....that was WITH CROWER STAGE 2'S!(as u stated) I said show/post up a h22/b series swap WITH JUST I/H/E AND TUNE thats makking 225WHP and 165-175WTQ!

[Vteckidd]

Numbers aren't everything

I would take a 200/139 9500rpm type-r setup over a 225/165 k24 7000 rpm car

I've beaten cars with far more hp just based on my shift points

[NEMO]

:lmfao: that is all

[RickyBobbyV8]

There are basic rules to getting more hp from a na motor, bigger cam, more cubic inches, ported intake & head, exhaust, more compression, lighter valve train. A motor is just a big air pump the more air you get in and out faster the more hp you will make.:goodjob:

[112480]

Numbers aren't everything

I would take a 200/139 9500rpm type-r setup over a 225/165 k24 7000 rpm car

I've beaten cars with far more hp just based on my shift points


Oh really......................................... vise versa mike. Just b/c u can hold a gear longer........................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSjJMw4xXN0:taun:

[Vteckidd]

Oh really......................................... vise versa mike. Just b/c u can hold a gear longer........................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSjJMw4xXN0:taun:

Luis was k20 8600-8700rpm NOT a k24 like I said.

Also my car with a 4.4fd and 9500 rpms with 20 less whp BARELY lost to a k20 with type r cams, $1000 header, typer trans, typer fd,2.0 vs my 1.8 etc

my $3000 setup ran with his $8000 setup. I wish he would have rematched me with my 4.9 trans I have no doubt I would have pulled him or been dead even, all without making any more power

again numbers aren't everything

[Vteckidd]

Oh and I'm not making excuses, Luis car is faster and beat me and I lost. But for the amount of money it would have cost ME to build HIS car it wast insanely faster than my "old tech" b series motor

I certainly expected a lot more from all the shit talk people said about his car. I'm sire it was blazing fast on the bottle but na it wasn't anything to be scared of.

[teh_mugen18]

Numbers aren't everything

I would take a 200/139 9500rpm type-r setup over a 225/165 k24 7000 rpm car

I've beaten cars with far more hp just based on my shift points


this is true, im aware that there are many factors that contribute to winning/losing runs, but i didnt make this thread for the discussion of what makes a fast(er) car, i made it for the purpose of what does it take to achieve the goal of no less than 200whp NA, on either a 1.8L or a 2.0L (or 2.2L :ninja: lol), and with a redline of 8,000rpms or less just for reliability's sake.

[112480]

Luis was k20 8600-8700rpm NOT a k24 like I said.

Also my car with a 4.4fd and 9500 rpms with 20 less whp BARELY lost to a k20 with type r cams, $1000 header, typer trans, typer fd,2.0 vs my 1.8 etc

my $3000 setup ran with his $8000 setup. I wish he would have rematched me with my 4.9 trans I have no doubt I would have pulled him or been dead even, all without making any more power

again numbers aren't everything

I know, just playing with ya:D:taun:

[Vteckidd]

I've just never been impressed with the k series locally for the money spent and power put out. To me it's just something people do to say "I have a K". If all you want is to go fast all motor IMO H2B is the way to go. I would have done it if I could have closed my hood on my crx.

[112480]

The only k20/k24 locally was that jay kid and he had an inline pro motor , stage 3s , ssr header and made 255, not very impressive IMO

Well if i make 270whp, how will u b impressed by that?

[top_speed]

my old setup

gsr block with Ctr pistons .20 over bore
b16 head with supertech valve kit and skunk2 tuner stage3s

made 218whp, 12.4 1/4 miles in a eg bubble revd till 9k on 93 pump gas

[Vteckidd]

Well if i make 270whp, how will u b impressed by that?

Chunky made 243whp sae with a mild k20 with ips k2s. I never drove that k24 but I'm sure it was fast, just compared to other people it seemed like it was missing a few horses, but again numbers aren't everything.

Mike jones h23 makes 25X with stage 2 skunk2 cams, ported head, oem intake manifold, Kidd header and prob cost 1/4 to build than what that inline pro k24 cost.

I wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch. I wouldn't be claiming numbers or hanging onto a huge number, 270whp is not easy to make and is a ton of power. In my experience when you set yourself up and build up to a number that big if you only make 250-260 you're gonna be pissed and dissapointed. Cause in all motor there is no turning the boost up etc. You're also gping to have to eat a lot of crow if it doesn't make huge numbers.

I'd rather underestimate than overestimate. I'd rather speak softly and carry a big stick :p

I hope you make a ton of power 270 is HUGE numbers and you have my header, but just also understand there's other cars out there that might make 220 and run you down.

Numbers aren't everything and debating it back and forth makes us all look like bench racers.

I would never build a k, that's just me. Others would. To each his own

[Vteckidd]

Oh and you don't need me to be impressed , I'm a nobody. As long as YOURE happy is all that matters

[blown_ss]

Oh and you don't need me to be impressed , I'm a nobody. As long as YOURE happy is all that matters

real stand up post.:goodjob:

[112480]

but just also understand there's other cars out there that might make 220 and run you down.


That i gotta see! Remember mike, been doing this since 97':goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

You run up on a 220-230whp 1600lb 88crx hf with a 4.9 youll have your hands full.

There's one thing I've learned over the years, power to weight, hp, tq etc can be severely underestimated

that and you can't put a big enough tire under a Honda to guarantee traction past mid 200's

[Vteckidd]

Greg i just think im more of a pessimist, you are an optimist, thats all.

If you make 270 ill be the first to say "gimme a ride".

[top_speed]

B series are great motors and reliable but won't make as much horsepower then kseries that's a fact I seen many built b series at 240-260 range, weight makes a huge difference if you make 255hp on a bseries weigh in with you in the car around 1700 that's a 11.0 estimate car... Now kseries are very expensive the swaps can be cheap but to build and the parts prices are up there I seen a stock K20R makes 230hp completely stock other the fuel rail injectors and fpr..hseries are also great motors with minor bolt ons gain hp

[ejohnson88]

Stemming off one of the most intelligent comments out of Vteckidd's mouth, "People who buy custom made headers, are different people than those who buy the knockoff replica/copycat/mass production headers." This point can be expanded into many realms of the car world, and here it's present in the selection of motors for such and such power. But the overwhelming problem people here fail to notice is that everyone here is their own person and has their own ideas and has their own goals. At the end of the day they are going to come up with any and all reasons to justify why they feel the way they feel. So in the case of people's selection of headers, I personally needed and wanted a custom made piece after a fitment issue of a mass produced header and I personally believe in not skimping on price when it comes to building something that I want to last and have "Quality". Yeah, so there are people out there that have paid less than me and gotten just as good, and sometimes "better" results. But you know what? That doesn't matter, I know what I want and I know how I want to do it. Plain and simple. If I have the opportunity and money to do something then that's my call. Simply trying to bash others because they want to achieve a goal differently is almost a complete waste of time.... Because at the end of the day, we will make our own choices and we will do whatever we rationalize to ourselves as the "BEST" option....

This argument is seen in other realms of cars - Such as brands. The cheap and affordable owners always talk about how they can perform and match that of cars X times their price. But does that Porsche owner care that you have a civic that is faster than his car? Most likely not because he still got the Porsche, if he wanted a 12 second civic, that's what he would have done.

Life is all about balancing what you want to do with what you can do. Fact of life. If there is anything the car scene has taught me, is that there is always going to be someone faster, better, stronger, more reliable so just LEARN WHAT YOU LIKE and DO WHAT YOU LOVE regardless of what others try to tell you, and you'll be a lot happier.


And on a side note, I went K series, because I wanted to be different, I wanted to have that WOW factor when someone sees under my hood. I like the technology behind the K series motors, and I like how it is one of the product development forerunners for Honda's engines. Money wasn't an option and so I payed for my cup of tea. TO EACH HIS OWN. And my Barely 195hp K series full weight coupe with A/C was dead even with Chunky's 243hp fully build k20 ep3... So Dyno numbers don't always add up and become the end all be all, because they are a tool used to tune a car to it's full potential. Until you take a car to a track and see that power in use, you're only bench racing.

[Vteckidd]

That was my point, to each his own

your d series was faster than your k series, but you're prob way happier with the k than the d.

I personally am about hp/$ and a k doesn't make sense to me. I never cared about wow factor ( besides my header). I cared about whAt worked and made power for a reasonable amount of money.

People forget I owned the ANR header before anyone else, RMF sent me headers, I had John from hytech sent me a header for free , etc. I owned all the baller headers back in the day when most people had dc sports.

But along the way I became about business and opportunity. Sure quality of hytech is awesome, but rmfs mild steel header was better. Hytechs $1000 header was worse than a $600 header.

Then I was tapped by a company to test the new hytech rreplica header. And this $500 header was just as good as the $1000 custom unit John built from hytech

at that point I became about power, availability, price.

I'd rather own a $400 header that did the same thing as a $1000 header. Others feel differently

doesn't mean the quality of my build was bad or worse

[ejohnson88]

Actually the K series is faster than my Turbo D series setup, on and off the track. Turbo lag was a bitch haha. My point on quality is from my general rule of thumb that in most cases Quality is positively correlated with price.

[Jdm94Coupe]

Actually the K series is faster than my Turbo D series setup, on and off the track. Turbo lag was a bitch haha. My point on quality is from my general rule of thumb that in most cases Quality is positively correlated with price.

im just curious, what does your k series run in the 1/4?

[BABY J]

I've got a serious D in the works (N/A) - then I'm stepping away from Hondas for a bit... could quite be the last Honda build ever for me.

Lots of good info in here --- and for you younger guys listen up when the experience starts talking. A lot of us older guys have been where you are trying to get to (MANY times over) - doesn't mean we know it all, but just take notes - and add that w/ your own desires. Build what you want - it may be popular, it may not be - but build it and learn from it -- that's what this scene was built on, trial and error. BIGDARE built a 176hp B16 "accidentally" just bc he wanted to still play w/ B16s even when experienced guys were saying "fuck a B16". That's a kool feat no matter who liked it or not. N/A "small" displacement motors is a test of your heart --- when the rollers disappoint it's much easier to part shit out than to tear it apart and try it again. The guys who have heart re-attack - the guys who don't find their way to other chassis' and other ways to make power. But unless it's a BIG POWER power-adder setup, I think REAL N/A enthusiasts have more heart and dedication than any other formats out there although we are all gluttons for punsihment - LOL.

[teh_mugen18]

I've got a serious D in the works (N/A) - then I'm stepping away from Hondas for a bit... could quite be the last Honda build ever for me.

Lots of good info in here --- and for you younger guys listen up when the experience starts talking. A lot of us older guys have been where you are trying to get to (MANY times over) - doesn't mean we know it all, but just take notes - and add that w/ your own desires. Build what you want - it may be popular, it may not be - but build it and learn from it -- that's what this scene was built on, trial and error. BIGDARE built a 176hp B16 "accidentally" just bc he wanted to still play w/ B16s even when experienced guys were saying "fuck a B16". That's a kool feat no matter who liked it or not. N/A "small" displacement motors is a test of your heart --- when the rollers disappoint it's much easier to part shit out than to tear it apart and try it again. The guys who have heart re-attack - the guys who don't find their way to other chassis' and other ways to make power. But unless it's a BIG POWER power-adder setup, I think REAL N/A enthusiasts have more heart and dedication than any other formats out there although we are all gluttons for punsihment - LOL.


LOL sooo... cliffs time;


power-to-weight = HUGE as far as Hondas go
making big numbers isn't everything
high-comp is THE way to go ;)
the k series is not cheap
H2b = guaranteed over 200whp NA
the more $$ you spend doesnt mean more power lol
shorter trannies are bad on the highway but good for being ''faaaast''

Am i missing anything? lolol

[Vteckidd]

KISS

Keep it Simple Stupid

there's enough info out there that people should know by now what to run

cams: skunk2 pro1s for 90% of h or b series
intake manifold: skunk2 or Aebs
header: kiddracing, asp, ssr, skunk2 depends on budget
tune: hondata or Crome
rods: eagle
pistons: je, cp 11-12:1
tb: skunk2

it's real simple to build a setup that makes power

[BABY J]

^^ Or get a B18Cx w/ a 75 shot wet and spank up on all of the above --- and still have money left over for Steak-N-Shake.

LOL

[112480]

If you make 270 ill be the first to say "gimme a ride".

AND U SHALL HAVE IT SIR:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

[112480]

You run up on a 220-230whp 1600lb 88crx hf with a 4.9 youll have your hands full.

And how many of those do we have LOCALLY!!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

And how many of those do we have LOCALLY!!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

There's a few haha that guy in Rome with the h22 crx that was running 11s or close to it

disco monkey

Mike jones

NEMO

Jason Wallace

Luis

chunky

Kyle

there's a few guys out there for you to woop up on. I just meant a kid in a 88hf with minor weight reduction making 220-230 with the right trans will give you a good run

whether that guy is out there or not I don't know but you'll find out I'm sure

[112480]

There's a few haha that guy in Rome with the h22 crx that was running 11s or close to it

disco monkey

Mike jones

NEMO

Jason Wallace

Luis

chunky

Kyle

there's a few guys out there for you to woop up on. I just meant a kid in a 88hf with minor weight reduction making 220-230 with the right trans will give you a good run

whether that guy is out there or not I don't know but you'll find out I'm sure

Thanx for the list LOL!!:goodjob::goodjob: Saved to my harddrive LOL!!!

[Vteckidd]

To the OP my most classic example is this integra mainstream built and a 240sx mainstream tuned.

The 240sx was a stock bottom sr20 with a t3/t4. Mainstream built the manifold, downpipe, and tuned the car. On race gas it made 432whp@23psi

the integra mainstream built had a gt35r, built 2.0l, all kinds of stuff and made 629whp.

One night they both met up and street raced both on race gas both going from a roll. The integra got destroyed by something rediculous like 20 car lengths. I remember the owner calling me saying there was no way the 240 only made 430whp cause he just got waxed.

The difference in that race was a number of things

1)the 240 ran drag radials and was rwd, the integra had 195 street tires
2) the 240 knew how to brake boost , the integra didn't
3) the 240 KNEW his car, knew his powerband , knew where he should start a race at an where to end it. The integra had no clue whether his car got better traction in 3rd at 60mph or 80mph or 40mph
4) a fwd car on street tires is just as fast with 300whp as it is with 1000whp
5)the integra had a long strung out ls tranny that made his already laggy powerband even more laggy

the integra looked at dyno sheets and said "I make 200whp more I can't lose!" he neglected other aspects that cost him a race and made people say tht his 630whp Honda was "slow"

another case where car setup was worth more than a dyno sheet

[teh_mugen18]

To the OP my most classic example is this integra mainstream built and a 240sx mainstream tuned.

The 240sx was a stock bottom sr20 with a t3/t4. Mainstream built the manifold, downpipe, and tuned the car. On race gas it made 432whp@23psi

the integra mainstream built had a gt35r, built 2.0l, all kinds of stuff and made 629whp.

One night they both met up and street raced both on race gas both going from a roll. The integra got destroyed by something rediculous like 20 car lengths. I remember the owner calling me saying there was no way the 240 only made 430whp cause he just got waxed.

The difference in that race was a number of things

1)the 240 ran drag radials and was rwd, the integra had 195 street tires
2) the 240 knew how to brake boost , the integra didn't
3) the 240 KNEW his car, knew his powerband , knew where he should start a race at an where to end it. The integra had no clue whether his car got better traction in 3rd at 60mph or 80mph or 40mph
4) a fwd car on street tires is just as fast with 300whp as it is with 1000whp
5)the integra had a long strung out ls tranny that made his already laggy powerband even more laggy

the integra looked at dyno sheets and said "I make 200whp more I can't lose!" he neglected other aspects that cost him a race and made people say tht his 630whp Honda was "slow"

another case where car setup was worth more than a dyno sheet

That whole situation sounds more like driver error and poor race preparation than anything else imo

[Vteckidd]

It was a case where on paper everything was in the integras favor, hp, rpm, tq, etc

But none of that mattered because the other car was setup better and that driver knew his car. I saw that 240 beat more than a few cars with way more power than him.

Like I said numbers and theories only get you so far.

[isthisreal]

bump for this thread...dont stop now guys i like the arguments between the k and b/h/d guys

[Black4DrEK]

:ninja:

[Vteckidd]

^^^^ CTR pistons suck noob


And running "stage 2 cams" on itr valvetrain is awesome if you want a dropped valve

stage 2 cams? What stage 2 cams, crowed, blox, skunk2 tuner, pro, obx, web, crane, toda, surely they aren't all the same!?

why stage 2 cams why not pro1s? Why not toda a's?

Don't give advice if you don't know what you're talking about

[Black4DrEK]

Why do CTR suck? LOL

And NOT sure which cams to get out of SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many made...JackASS

Im just saying something NOT stock, go bigger then your regular CTR or ITR cams...

EDIT* I know for a FACT the build i just mention would make VERY close to 200 if not a tad more!

[mr.koupe]

Why do CTR suck? LOL

And NOT sure which cams to get out of SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many made...JackASS

Im just saying something NOT stock, go bigger then your regular CTR or ITR cams...

EDIT* I know for a FACT the build i just mention would make VERY close to 200 if not a tad more!


i thought you had more sense than that honestly. you cant just slap parts together n/a and expect gobs of power. ITS ABOUT EFFICIENCY :goodjob:
and just for gp i thought you all might like to see this...

k24a block
2009 TSX pistons 87mm 11.5 compression
stock RBC with stock TB
ASP megaphone header
stock head with ok cams

http://www.k20a.org/upload/274baby.jpg

As you see there is potential to make more power with better manifold and cams maybe.

Tuned on e85

:goodjob:

[top_speed]

^^^^ CTR pistons suck noob


And running "stage 2 cams" on itr valvetrain is awesome if you want a dropped valve

stage 2 cams? What stage 2 cams, crowed, blox, skunk2 tuner, pro, obx, web, crane, toda, surely they aren't all the same!?

why stage 2 cams why not pro1s? Why not toda a's?

Don't give advice if you don't know what you're talking about

i made good power and times with ctr pistons and it lasted a long time and took a beating BUT spending the extra money for cp,weisco is always better

[teh_mugen18]

i thought you had more sense than that honestly. you cant just slap parts together n/a and expect gobs of power. ITS ABOUT EFFICIENCY :goodjob:
and just for gp i thought you all might like to see this...

k24a block
2009 TSX pistons 87mm 11.5 compression
stock RBC with stock TB
ASP megaphone header
stock head with ok cams

http://www.k20a.org/upload/274baby.jpg

As you see there is potential to make more power with better manifold and cams maybe.

Tuned on e85

:goodjob:

with all this talk about efficiency, is this efficiency ''thing'' something that i would be able to put together with some math formulas/numbers, and then based on exact numbers and calculations, build an NA motor that would pretty much kill in all ranges of power? (essentially anyways :o)

Because, i know that everyone says when you port heads or get them ported/flow tested, that there is a limit to how much flow a head can give before performance is actually hurt slightly... How can one tell what is too much? I'm sure there has to be something where the numbers can be definitively calculated out, based on compression ratios, etc.

[Black4DrEK]

:ninja:

[top_speed]

I have used 81.5mmCTR pistons in 2 NA builds, and I NEVER had a problem also made Great power..

170hp 117tq B16a... NOT even fully built!


GSR block 81.5mm ctr, b16 head supertech vavletrain, skunk2 tuner 3s,hytech replicas tuned on 93 made 218 whp and ran 12.4s

[bigdare23]

I have used 81.5mmCTR pistons in 2 NA builds, and I NEVER had a problem also made Great power..

170hp 117tq B16a... NOT even fully built!



http://www.zealautowerks.com/bseries.html

Checkout the c/r with a b16

then checkout the c/r with a GSR, TYPE R, LS-V


That's why Mike said they suck. :goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

Why do CTR suck? LOL

And NOT sure which cams to get out of SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many made...JackASS

Im just saying something NOT stock, go bigger then your regular CTR or ITR cams...

EDIT* I know for a FACT the build i just mention would make VERY close to 200 if not a tad more!

Good rule of thumb is if you don't know don't answer

look up flame front and combustion efficiency then tell me why a ctr piston is good

or

you can go look at the thread I posted 5 years ago about how high compression ctr pistons are the main reason engines fail.

You realize the engine you recommended him (itr block, b16 head, ctr pistons ) is 13:1ish compression right?

Why would you recommend a cam if you have no idea what the lifts, duration, etc are?

The only one being a jackass is you, you're giving advise on build parts you know nothing about but "y0 cuz my boi ran it and it run good " is apparently good enough to recommend to other people

[Black4DrEK]

12.8.1?

[Vteckidd]

i thought you had more sense than that honestly. you cant just slap parts together n/a and expect gobs of power. ITS ABOUT EFFICIENCY :goodjob:
and just for gp i thought you all might like to see this...

k24a block
2009 TSX pistons 87mm 11.5 compression
stock RBC with stock TB
ASP megaphone header
stock head with ok cams

http://www.k20a.org/upload/274baby.jpg

As you see there is potential to make more power with better manifold and cams maybe.

Tuned on e85

:goodjob:

That's a nikos graph and should be taken with a grain of salt his graphs are always 20% higher than anyone else

and his "ok " cams are $2000 ips cams

[Vteckidd]

12.8.1?
Imagine that, knowing what a compression ratio of a piston is before you build a motor

Fucking lost art

why would you run a 12.8-13:1 piston in a motor that would make the same power as a piston that gives you 11.5:1 ?

Why run a flat top over a dome?

[Black4DrEK]

jon at Importxp said ITR block , CTR pistons, B16 head would be a Great build!

I know its gonna have High compression

[bigdare23]

13.93:1 for lsvtec w/ b16 head
14.35:1 w/ gsr head
13.08:1 for gsr
12.73:1 for type r


I don't know bout you, but I wouldn't want to DD a car with that compression ratio with only 93.

[top_speed]

13.93:1 for lsvtec w/ b16 head
14.35:1 w/ gsr head
13.08:1 for gsr
12.73:1 for type r


I don't know bout you, but I wouldn't want to DD a car with that compression ratio with only 93.

its not that bad lol i use to drive my car every where with no problems

[Vteckidd]

Stop giving advise your comments are useless and prove you haven't learned anything.

Why should he "go bigger than stock"? I made 197/139 with stock itr cams.

You haven't learned bigger isn't better.

[Black4DrEK]

GSR block 81.5mm ctr, b16 head supertech vavletrain, skunk2 tuner 3s,hytech replicas tuned on 93 made 218 whp and ran 12.4s



DING DING DING:goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

jon at Importxp said ITR block , CTR pistons, B16 head would be a Great build!

I know its gonna have High compression

That's a shitty build let me know what your knock count is on pump gas

[Vteckidd]

its not that bad lol i use to drive my car every where with no problems

How many miles did you get out of the engine

[Black4DrEK]

Stop giving advise your comments are useless and prove you haven't learned anything.

Why should he "go bigger than stock"? I made 197/139 with stock itr cams.

You haven't learned bigger isn't better.


Just cuz I dont want to build a motor YOUR way.... LOL GTFO!!!

and with your STOCK cams on that build, you DIDNT hit 200 did you? NO

[Black4DrEK]

That's a shitty build let me know what your knock count is on pump gas

O really...Ill let you know how it goes:goodjob: LOL

[Vteckidd]

I'm done giving free advice seems you guys know more than me guess my time has come and gone lol

there's a reason why people consistently make power and others slap motors together and continuously have issues or never make any power

I know where I stand

[top_speed]

That's a shitty build let me know what your knock count is on pump gas

be honest very motor, and evry tune is diffrent... at first we werent sure if the motor was gonna knock but we put 93 and tuned it and no knocks car ran good and no signs of detention

[bigdare23]

O really...Ill let you know how it goes:goodjob: LOL


There is a 23 page thread on H-T about CTR pistons, I suggest you read it :goodjob:

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=717928

[Black4DrEK]

Just dont act like, YOUR build is THE WAY you should do it.. there 1000000 Diff ways to build a B series man damn!

You act as if other folks are a Dumb ass when the suggest something DIFFERENT then what YOU did..

[Vteckidd]

Just cuz I dont want to build a motor YOUR way.... LOL GTFO!!!

and with your STOCK cams on that build, you DIDNT hit 200 did you? NO

Show me a STock motor that made as much power with just a header. Scotty thinks it's the highest type-r motor dynoed he's ever done with I/h/e

197whp with a stock itr motor is more reliable and will last longer and be more efficient than that motor you listed

but you dot know anything about that.

[top_speed]

I'm done giving free advice seems you guys know more than me guess my time has come and gone lol

there's a reason why people consistently make power and others slap motors together and continuously have issues or never make any power

I know where I stand

you make sence not saying you dont but evry build is diffrent and evry1 has there own PERSONAL way they wanna build there motors even if it blows up or it works i have learned that going forged is better then going with ctr cast pistons due to detention and other reasons but it was a lil project to mess around with

[Black4DrEK]

There is a 23 page thread on H-T about CTR pistons, I suggest you read it :goodjob:

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=717928


Im not putting CTR pistons in a LSV or GSR Anytime so I DONT care..

[teh_mugen18]

Just dont act like, YOUR build is THE WAY you should do it.. there 1000000 Diff ways to build a B series man damn!

You act as if other folks are a Dumb ass when the suggest something DIFFERENT then what YOU did..


and there's a whole 'nother story on how long motors last based on how they're set up as well... sure, they can make horsepower numbers but then only last for a few hundred miles before they need to be rebuilt. This thread is also supposed to be about a motor that can LAST and make numbers. It sounds like CTR pistons are a definite no-no for a long lasting NA setup.

[Vteckidd]

Just dont act like, YOUR build is THE WAY you should do it.. there 1000000 Diff ways to build a B series man damn!

You act as if other folks are a Dumb ass when the suggest something DIFFERENT then what YOU did..

You aren't suggesting anything you are recommending parts with no experience or facts to back it up!

I don't give advice on nuclear physics cause I don't know shit about it , you're giving advice on engine building without even knowing the compression of a fucking piston or the specs of a cam!!!

The one thing I hate is people giving bad advice and defending it.

[Black4DrEK]

:ninja:



:2up:

[Black4DrEK]

Im sorry i didnt Name EVERY cam with its Exact spec!

And every Diff piston with its spec too!!

HAHAHA... WTF.. Get over your self

[Vteckidd]

If this is what the all motor guys have become then I'm glad I walked away when I did

I'm done good luck you'll figure it out one day

[bigdare23]

I know the CTR piston are NOT good for LSV or GSR,, but With ITR it WILL be fine!


:headslap:

[top_speed]

and there's a whole 'nother story on how long motors last based on how they're set up as well... sure, they can make horsepower numbers but then only last for a few hundred miles before they need to be rebuilt. This thread is also supposed to be about a motor that can LAST and make numbers. It sounds like CTR pistons are a definite no-no for a long lasting NA setup.

by last what due you mean? because my setup lasted over 1 year driving from ny to the race track in nj all the time and i raced the car also

[teh_mugen18]

^^^lasting, meaning running for either a really long time or a high number of miles... more than just a few thousand or so. I dont really know what the "average" number of miles a built motor lasts, but, i'm it can't be anything like an oem one would due to the excessive abuse they usually have to endure.

[Starrfire]

by last what due you mean? because my setup lasted over 1 year driving from ny to the race track in nj all the time and i raced the car also

A year isn't a great deal of time really. So your engine lasted 365 days. Nice.....

[speedminded]

Well if i make 270whp, how will u b impressed by that?I've seen over 250whp locally from an H-Frankenstein...10 years ago.

I know where two of these engines are still sitting begging to be put into cars too lol!

[112480]

If this is what the all motor guys have become then I'm glad I walked away when I did

I'm done good luck you'll figure it out one day

No its not what they've become mike. Its just certain people r gonna have their opinions REGARDLESS of how much experience u have. These r the people that will always have that "oh u think u know everything" mentallity. so just ignore them.

[NEMO]

Thanx for the list LOL!! Saved to my harddrive LOL!!!
pick me first :goodjob: :D

[punkr6]

If this is what the all motor guys have become then I'm glad I walked away when I did

I'm done good luck you'll figure it out one day

the fact that you keep arguing with these retards amazes me....:thinking:

[112480]

pick me first :goodjob: :D

LOL! after seeing the vid of u and mike race u and luis(KIZDAWAY) r on the top of my list:goodjob::goodjob:

[112480]

the fact that you keep arguing with these retards amazes me....:thinking:

x2, discusstion is one thing. arguing.....:gay:

[all-mota]

some people are ignorant as hell that why i stopped answering pm's about people building engines and everything. assholes ask for advice and then go against what i say and tell me what they are going to do wether it works or not even when i tell them it's a bad idea.

people don't realize everything has been done by someone one time or another with good and bad results just because you have the same setup as someone doesn't mean your going to make the same power because every engine is different, but you can't tell people that.



and the reason ctr pistons suck ass is because they are the heaviest piston you can put in engine the dome hurts flame travel in the chamber and for the slight bump in compression and the extra weight the same power can be made with a different piston.
when you get to a certain hp number volumetric efficiency plays a big role in how much air a engine can pump weight matters and what cams work best with a certain compression number are important. thats why the same people keep doing stuff the same way and don't ever have good results is because they have to realize they are not the exception to the rule.

[2.0lef_itbs]

You haven't learned bigger isn't better.


i've said this and i usually get this lol:2up:

reps for Vteckidd holding his ground and everything he says makes sense.you dont have to always be using the biggest shit out there cause at one point it doesn't help

[Starrfire]

biggest shit requires the biggest velocity. And when all your ports are "small" and you have big ass cams the velocity of air going in will be slow making for an inefficient motor. Biggest is only best when you have other parts to accomodate it. That is why so many people are dissapointed when they buy all these "stage 3" cams and have way high compression that don't make shit tons of power. Plus when you have really large cams it's gonna be hard to get enough air in at high speed with vtec at a normal crossover point. Power bands move way up, otherwise you have huge dips in power.

[ef6honda]

how about i made 300 hp and 240wtq on my d series boosting 10psi

[Jenson]

Flat top pistons only, get your compression from the head. I have a fantastic clover leaf P72 head that will yield 13:1, somewhere, never got around to using it. Domes are bad, VE good. To the OP, if your looking for mileage, go with stock. Like Kidd said, stock ITR motor, Pro1's, good header, job done. Ive only built one forged B series that went over 25K miles, all others needed rings at that point.

[BABY J]

Flat top pistons only, get your compression from the head. I have a fantastic clover leaf P72 head that will yield 13:1, somewhere, never got around to using it. Domes are bad, VE good. To the OP, if your looking for mileage, go with stock. Like Kidd said, stock ITR motor, Pro1's, good header, job done. Ive only built one forged B series that went over 25K miles, all others needed rings at that point.

Lies. :) Give me a xmas tree or statue of liberty topped slug that inhibits airflow into and out of the head and that weighs 8 pounds each. LOL. I also like the fact that said slug breaks the flame front into 2 "separate" explosions in the cylinder - this definitely can decrease the amount of the mixture that gets burned - but that's okay bc I like pissing my fuel away and making less power. Lol. All the kids are doing it. :)

[SLow_POke]

I think people fail to realise that this builds have been going for years. I remember this same BS in 2001.

I'm happy to see where the knowledge has gone:rolleyes:.

Either way Im not one to jump ont he bandwagon But U dont have to listen to vteckidd or anyone else not following your "set up" But take the advise given to u and at least do some homework. dint go by what some shop told you.

I remember getting flamed for degreeing cams in my garage back in Cali. Getting flame by my friends of friends saying well this shop said u didnt need to they just slap it on and made power. wow thats why very few shops are still around

I guess Piston speed, VE, rod ratio,


i cant beleive i missed this thread.

[HatchHero]

go H!! i made over 200whp

[Starrfire]

^^^LOL, thats easy though.

[h22 jones]

lol at this thread just came to see were i was on the list lol. Ill make a deal ill take 4,000 dollars and the k series man takes 4,000 dollars and we will see who makes more power and runs a faster time in the quarter . PS i would like longhorn for supper cause you will be buying it sir. I made 236 with a stock bottom end trying to build a dailey driver and now it makes 252 and gets 34.5 miles to the gallon and is driven every day. Now im building my race car.

[h22 jones]

You keep saying let me see and how much tq so here is my dyno sheet. Ill make you a deal ill take 4,000 dollars and you take 4,000 dollars and we will build our motors of choice and ill make more horse power and run a faster time at the track you will be buying me long horn that night sir. I have been arguing this point 10 years ago when i was out running all my friends turboed b series with stock h22 for less then 2,000 for the swap. Take a stock h22 or f20b through it in a civic run mid to low 13s for less then 2,000 bone stock no header no nothing . Take a bone stock k series 4-6,000 run low 13s maybe a high 12. Take a stock gsr 4,000 maybe a little less now run 14.2 .now take the extra 2-4,000 dollars left over put it into the h run low 12s now that is facts period nothing to argue there. Spooling which has one of the highest hp b series on here and this man loves his b series will even tell you all motor go with a h simple as that. Go on honda tech pull up this cool ne g build there doing making 255hp with stock shit then look at the date 5 years ago lol none of this new none of its hard what people need to learn its not what you bolt on its how you massage your motor and make everything work as one. Ok buy the most exspensive header now buy the most exspensive head put them together if one has square ports and one has oval ports not gonna make power its got to flow together. I have a stock throttle body and 2.5 inch exaust on the car making 252hp im sure if i put a 70mm throttle body and 3 inch exaust it will pick up 6-10 hp but if im not gonna strip the car and make it a race car that little bit of power on the streat realy doesnt matter to me we will see what the race car does when i finish it . dollar for dollar a h series will make more all motor hp period and i can prove it . Ill bet the guy on ht making 330 hp running 10s with a h series has half of what kseries does making same power remember no replacement for displacment sometimes mike bigger is better lol ha ha. Honestly the head work,cams,pistons and all of this stuff for b,h,and k series cost about the same so there for its just the intial investment that is so much greater which is were the problem is with k series and why i can build a 250 hp h series for what a stock k series cost.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i160/michaeldalej/dalesdyno.jpg

[112480]

You keep saying let me see and how much tq so here is my dyno sheet. Ill make you a deal ill take 4,000 dollars and you take 4,000 dollars and we will build our motors of choice and ill make more horse power and run a faster time at the track you will be buying me long horn that night sir. I have been arguing this point 10 years ago when i was out running all my friends turboed b series with stock h22 for less then 2,000 for the swap. Take a stock h22 or f20b through it in a civic run mid to low 13s for less then 2,000 bone stock no header no nothing . Take a bone stock k series 4-6,000 run low 13s maybe a high 12. Take a stock gsr 4,000 maybe a little less now run 14.2 .now take the extra 2-4,000 dollars left over put it into the h run low 12s now that is facts period nothing to argue there. Spooling which has one of the highest hp b series on here and this man loves his b series will even tell you all motor go with a h simple as that. Go on honda tech pull up this cool ne g build there doing making 255hp with stock shit then look at the date 5 years ago lol none of this new none of its hard what people need to learn its not what you bolt on its how you massage your motor and make everything work as one. Ok buy the most exspensive header now buy the most exspensive head put them together if one has square ports and one has oval ports not gonna make power its got to flow together. I have a stock throttle body and 2.5 inch exaust on the car making 252hp im sure if i put a 70mm throttle body and 3 inch exaust it will pick up 6-10 hp but if im not gonna strip the car and make it a race car that little bit of power on the streat realy doesnt matter to me we will see what the race car does when i finish it . dollar for dollar a h series will make more all motor hp period and i can prove it . Ill bet the guy on ht making 330 hp running 10s with a h series has half of what kseries does making same power remember no replacement for displacment sometimes mike bigger is better lol ha ha. Honestly the head work,cams,pistons and all of this stuff for b,h,and k series cost about the same so there for its just the intial investment that is so much greater which is were the problem is with k series and why i can build a 250 hp h series for what a stock k series cost.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i160/michaeldalej/dalesdyno.jpg

LOL! Man u r funny................ I WILL MAKE U NUMBER ONE ON MY LIST IF U PREFER! Car will b finished soon enough, but honestly do u know my setup??? If u did i SERIOUSLY doubt u would b as confident.

[112480]

PS, where ur tq is at 252whp i would make at least 15lbs more. simple i/h/e and mild cams:goodjob: NOT hard to get a k series(with more tq obvisously) to make ur numbers AT ALL!! VERY VERY VERY SIMPLE!

www.k20a.org:goodjob: u should go there!

[h22 jones]

nobody is arguing weither its simple or weither your k series is badder its weither you have twice as much money in it as i do for the same if not less hp your answer to that is what? Are you building your motor ? I said it was simple but at the same time for some people its unachievable just depends on how much you know or how deep your pockets are so which one are you mr. deep pockets or mr. smarty pants lol .Realy im just wondering if you buying a bunch of shit you read and bolting it togehter hoping for a number that somebody else made because alot of guys get there feelings hurt that way . If you know how to cc a motor and balance and blue print one ,make everything flow together then congrats your goals are very easy to reach but still gonna cost twice as much because your setup did to start out with whch is my point . You seem to think everybody is bashing k series were i have much respect for them just not for the price thats all.

[h22 jones]

I posted my dyno chart of a dailey driver that gets 34.5 miles to the gallon that gets driven everyday and still out run most if not all the all motor cars on here on any given day were is yours? If you want respect from me show me a old build show me something anything hell lol just prove that you know your shit ill give you reps instead of throwing out this big number power your gonna make .You know as well as i do half the noobs on here do eactly what you are doing right now hell you might be legit but right now you just another noob to me untill then you no were to make the call outs in the kills forum good luck.

[h22 jones]

And there using k series pistons in the g build so maybe there is something good out of a k series that doesnt cost more than a new kia lol.

[BABY J]

1) The bottom line is this - the K series is NOWHERE near as practical - no matter how much money you make. Will it get there? Sure. But that time is not right now - we still need a million more ricers to crash their RSXs and Acuras :) The ONLY people that think the K makes sense financially are the people that are building one and eating Ramen Noodles everyday. :) TOday you can build a K Killer for MUCH less than it takes to source and build a K-swapped car - PERIOD.

2) Even though I said the above, BUILD WHAT THE FUCK you want to build. As long as you build it for you who cares - I've been called stupid for building and "all-motor" B18B (when it's not even an ALL-MOTOR setup - it was built as a nitrous car from the jump) but I haven't lost to 1 VTEC car yet since getting my gearing dialed in (yes there are plenty on this board that will smack my ass if I'm off the gas).

3) The K series guys feel that they have to defend their purchase/direction when in reality they don't. I don't know why we get into this shit. You don't have to defend Hondas - you don't have to defend the direction you take - just roll with it.

4) Stop bench-racing on a setup that hasn't even hit the rollers yet. Sometimes saying less is more bc you get to save face later. Even though you may make more power on the rollers if you sit down with Jones then that more power/torque could be your curse as you are spinning and he is winning. There is only so much traction to be had FWD --- I'd much rather just reduce the weight of the car than to keep searching for TQ - but what do I know, I've only been doing this shit for 16 years.

Happy hunting.

[112480]

which one are you mr. deep pockets or mr. smarty pants lol

No i'm Mr. Sarcastic

[112480]

I posted my dyno chart of a dailey driver that gets 34.5 miles to the gallon that gets driven everyday and still out run most if not all the all motor cars on here on any given day were is yours? If you want respect from me show me a old build show me something anything hell lol just prove that you know your shit ill give you reps instead of throwing out this big number power your gonna make .You know as well as i do half the noobs on here do eactly what you are doing right now hell you might be legit but right now you just another noob to me untill then you no were to make the call outs in the kills forum good luck.

LOL! U got a FB page?? Type in Gregg T Stephens and look at my car pics from 2007 there. First in ATL at that time to make 300whp@15psi. Maybe Scotty can post the dyno sheet for me cause i cant find mines.lol

My new Go-Power Cams for my setup

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/112480/S6001172.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/112480/S6001173.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/112480/S6001179.jpg

My manifold

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/112480/S6000847.jpg


WHOOPS................. I meant this one. LOL
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/112480/P1010236.jpg

SOOOOO MUCH MORE, but y list them. Dont want to bench race here. Just meet me on the pavement when i'm ready

[112480]

1) The ONLY people that think the K makes sense financially are the people that are building one and eating Ramen Noodles everyday. :)

Um, J, i STILL eat Steak,Lobster etc etc all way down to the double stack on wendys dollar menu, and I'M IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FASHION RICH OR "WELL OFF" proly broker than u r. Just know how to budget and have patience. That all:D


3) The K series guys feel that they have to defend their purchase/direction when in reality they don't.

B/C ppl that dont have the patience/money r ALWAYS talking shit about k series! They act like it cost $100,000 damn dollars to build one! K SERIES R SOOOOOOO MUCH CHEAPER TODAY TO BUILD, EVEN BUY STRAIGHT OUT SWAP, THEN THEY WERE 5 YEARS AGO!!

Plenty of guys on k20a.org been selling FULL type s swap for $2500-3500 and its getting cheaper! Swap parts r EXTREMLY CHEAPER NOW THEN BACK THEN. Used that is:goodjob:


4) Stop bench-racing on a setup that hasn't even hit the rollers yet. Sometimes saying less is more bc you get to save face later.

Dont really bench race J, i'm just bored so dont mind talking a LITTLE shit. But its all in fun. If H22JONES or anyone else is taking offense, then i stop. Dont have time for crybabies.


Even though you may make more power on the rollers if you sit down with Jones then that more power/torque could be your curse as you are spinning and he is winning.

J, I'm not making 400whp all motor and jones isnt making 175whp all motor. So we'll see how it goes. In other words its not like i WILL b spinning and he has so much less hp/tq that he'll hook and go! I wont have that much more hp all motor than he will. Is that good or bad? All depends on what u want. Yes its cheaper to do a H2B build than a k, BUT that doesnt make it better! I wanted to do a K swap b/c of the end result in power. Try to understand J.


but what do I know, I've only been doing this shit for 16 years.

LOL! SO HAVE I J, SO HAVE I:goodjob:

[112480]

BTW, J, how the wagovan doing??? My fiance was asking about u the other day. She thinks ur a funny guy.

[Vteckidd]

all i will say it more TQ=MORE SPIN

[Vteckidd]

Oh and Jones is one of the nicest guys ive ever met, his point is basically just that hes got a relatively inexpensive engine that makes 250+whp.

Again like i said before
1) ITS NOT ALL ABOUT NUMBERS, ive beaten and seen people get beat PLENTY of times when they were making "more hp"
2) Dyno Graphs mean nothing, they neglect to show you weight, gearing, etc
3) K Series are more expensive than any other engine to build or swap, PERIOD. The old technology still can compete with the new stuff in terms of HP/$
4) K20A.Org is full of shit and so is Nikos, 99% of Nikos graphs are a rolling advertisement for IPS you will NOT SEE THE NUMBER HERE IN GA that they see on those forums. Ask Chunky and anyone else with a K Series why they dyno 15-20whp less in Atlanta than anywhere else but B Series dont do that. Wonder Why? Its cause the K Series guys are way more caught up in numbers because they have something to prove for their investment IMO
5) TQ doesnt really mean that much from a roll race
6) This is all just bullshit talk really as no one in here (including me) has anything to race, well maybe Baby J and Jones can run lol

[teh_mugen18]

Oh and Jones is one of the nicest guys ive ever met, his point is basically just that hes got a relatively inexpensive engine that makes 250+whp.

Again like i said before
1) ITS NOT ALL ABOUT NUMBERS, ive beaten and seen people get beat PLENTY of times when they were making "more hp"
2) Dyno Graphs mean nothing, they neglect to show you weight, gearing, etc
3) K Series are more expensive than any other engine to build or swap, PERIOD. The old technology still can compete with the new stuff in terms of HP/$
4) K20A.Org is full of shit and so is Nikos, 99% of Nikos graphs are a rolling advertisement for IPS you will NOT SEE THE NUMBER HERE IN GA that they see on those forums. Ask Chunky and anyone else with a K Series why they dyno 15-20whp less in Atlanta than anywhere else but B Series dont do that. Wonder Why? Its cause the K Series guys are way more caught up in numbers because they have something to prove for their investment IMO
5) TQ doesnt really mean that much from a roll race
6) This is all just bullshit talk really as no one in here (including me) has anything to race, well maybe Baby J and Jones can run lol


LOLOL, this most definately.

[112480]

4) K20A.Org is full of shit and so is Nikos, 99% of Nikos graphs are a rolling advertisement for IPS you will NOT SEE THE NUMBER HERE IN GA that they see on those forums. Ask Chunky and anyone else with a K Series why they dyno 15-20whp less in Atlanta than anywhere else but B Series dont do that.

NO MIKE! NIKOS IS FULL OF SHIT! NOT THE SITE! And as far as numbers go u know i know, BUT I REALLY REALLY HOPE I CAN PROVE U AND CHUNKY WRONG on the number for K series here in ATL!

[Starrfire]

^^^ I would hope so too if I had spent that much money . LOL.

[112480]

^^^ I would hope so too if I had spent that much money . LOL.

Didnt spend that much! thats what i've been trying to say!! STILL UNDER $3K!! Motor was free due to trading my GSR tranny with new gears for it.:goodjob: And really finished. Taking parts to shop soon.:goodjob:

FYI, dont get caught up in all the "this guy spent $10k on his k swap and only made 210-220whp!" crap. That was 5 YEARS AGO!!!!!

PATEINCE YOUNG CATERPILLARS, PATEINCE!

[Vteckidd]

NO MIKE! NIKOS IS FULL OF SHIT! NOT THE SITE! And as far as numbers go u know i know, BUT I REALLY REALLY HOPE I CAN PROVE U AND CHUNKY WRONG on the number for K series here in ATL!

I disagree, K20a.org is a bunch of number jockeys. I cant tell you how many guys post "230whp with just a SSR header and Skunk2 Stage1s and KPRO" and people believe it. I cant tell you how many 230-250whp graphs ive seen off there that are such bullshit because they had IPS cams.

Chunkys "R" motor barely made 210 (Type R Pistons, type-R cams)
Chunkys "Built" motor with IPS K2s barely made 230whp (other people online were claiming 250-260 with similar builds
Chunkys Built motor with IPS K2s MK IIIs and my header 240whp (about the same amount of money to build his motor as my old 2.0lLSVTEC which made the same numbers) so i saw absolutely no benefit in going with a K series. It makes sense for chunky because he has a K Powered car already.

That kid Jay made 255whp with a K24, SKUNK2 STAGE 3s, 12.5:1 compression, inline pro motor, $1000 header all kinds of shit. I just dont see where you are going to pick up an extra 20-30whp.

Point is the K guys can argue all they want, but for street cars there are far better options ALL MOTOR for far less money. Those setups have been posted in this thread numerous times. If you are starting from scratch with an EG hatch as your car, K series is overpriced for the HP you get IMO, and more for bragging rights.

Id rather build a 250whp $6000 H2B than a 275whp $10,000 K24, but for other people it doesnt matter.

K20a is a cool site, i know a lot of people on there, but i stopped logging in when Nikos hacked into my PMs and posted my results without my consent after chunky and i did 20 hours of testing to show HIS USERS the difference between Skunk2 and IPS cams something nobody had done at the time. We had nice write ups and information and interviewed the people involved with the test, and rather than wait 2 hours for me to post the results, he broke into my PM account (since he owns the site) and leaked the results (which were not even the right dyno graphs) to Omniman in hopes of putting out false information to save face for IPS. Ever since then ive lost all respect for him, his site is just a advertising forum for IPS. So any graph i see on there, its cool, its nice, but i guarantee the cars making XXX hp wont make that here in GA, which in the end is all that matters.

[h22 jones]

come on man trading shit thats worth money is still spending money and you have yet to answer any of my questions mr sarcastic do you get your finger nails dirty or are you buying a bunch of shit that somebody else has hoping to make the same power they do by bolting them together im just trying to see if you got what it takes to build a 270 motor car and nas far as i can see since you keep dodging questions is your full of shit. I bet for every motor on here that gets built there is 15 more people that spent there 10 thousand dollar credit card bought a bunch of nice shit took pictures of it bragged about making 270 hp and parted it off 6 months later cause they dont have a clue what there doing and not enough money to finish PAYING SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT. Now your gonna say owe i got the money to pay to finish my car but that doesnt answer the question are you building it yourself or do you have a reputable shop doing it . Holding up nice cams means nothing to me man the cams in my car are 6 years old came out of a customers car that decided to go with pro2 i mean if nyou wanna get down to swapping i have 800 dollars in my motor lol ni almost have as much in getting it tunned as building it but we are talking about the average joe that has to purchase everything and k series are exspensive. You cant get on here and say hey man my grandma wrtecked her rsx gave me the motor and i built it you just got to be patient and you can build one for cheap lol come on get real. Is that your car in your sig cause about three pages ago a guy said something about you putting your motor in and taking it back out to build it and you said no you building it firts so if thats not even your car in your sig then thats just funny as shit man and explains everything . Your buddys might think since you have a bunch of high priced shit laying around that your king of the streets but not here and my offer stands 4000 build two motors see what they do i got a few hatch bodies ill let you use one so we can keep the weight the same what you wanna do you get your deals and i get mine?

[112480]

I disagree, K20a.org is a bunch of number jockeys. I cant tell you how many guys post "230whp with just a SSR header and Skunk2 Stage1s and KPRO" and people believe it. I cant tell you how many 230-250whp graphs ive seen off there that are such bullshit because they had IPS cams.

Chunkys "R" motor barely made 210 (Type R Pistons, type-R cams)
Chunkys "Built" motor with IPS K2s barely made 230whp (other people online were claiming 250-260 with similar builds
Chunkys Built motor with IPS K2s MK IIIs and my header 240whp (about the same amount of money to build his motor as my old 2.0lLSVTEC which made the same numbers) so i saw absolutely no benefit in going with a K series. It makes sense for chunky because he has a K Powered car already.

That kid Jay made 255whp with a K24, SKUNK2 STAGE 3s, 12.5:1 compression, inline pro motor, $1000 header all kinds of shit. I just dont see where you are going to pick up an extra 20-30whp.

Point is the K guys can argue all they want, but for street cars there are far better options ALL MOTOR for far less money. Those setups have been posted in this thread numerous times. If you are starting from scratch with an EG hatch as your car, K series is overpriced for the HP you get IMO, and more for bragging rights.

Id rather build a 250whp $6000 H2B than a 275whp $10,000 K24, but for other people it doesnt matter.

K20a is a cool site, i know a lot of people on there, but i stopped logging in when Nikos hacked into my PMs and posted my results without my consent after chunky and i did 20 hours of testing to show HIS USERS the difference between Skunk2 and IPS cams something nobody had done at the time. We had nice write ups and information and interviewed the people involved with the test, and rather than wait 2 hours for me to post the results, he broke into my PM account (since he owns the site) and leaked the results (which were not even the right dyno graphs) to Omniman in hopes of putting out false information to save face for IPS. Ever since then ive lost all respect for him, his site is just a advertising forum for IPS. So any graph i see on there, its cool, its nice, but i guarantee the cars making XXX hp wont make that here in GA, which in the end is all that matters.

Damn i didnt know NIKOS WAS THAT SHADY!! LOL! doesnt matter as i have NEVER liked him anyway, but on the $ comment i would rather build a $6000 H2B to rather than a $10k, kswap with only 25hp more. BUT!!!! I didnt spend $10k and i'm just knocking on $3k door!! So this hp/$ thing is crap. Ur urgument on that would have been VERY VERY VALID YEARS AGO! But NOT TODAY! I didnt spent $1600 for IPS CAMS like chunky did! I have ips NOTHING! DAMN NIKOS AND HIS EXPENSIVE ASS IPS CREW!

Shit if i were IPS THIS AND IPS THAT,THEN I would spent $10k+ LOL!!

[h22 jones]

I have never got on any car forum and seen vteckidd ,me ,spoolin , as a matter of fack anybody that has a fast car makingn great power get on here and start threwing out high ass numbers looking for attention but noobs. i hope you enjoy your attention you sure paid enough for it going with a k series lol. Dont worry man you can say what you feel i dont get pissed off honestly im just as bored as you are lol.

[112480]

IPS K2 MARK 3/KME'S/KT1 OR 2'S ETC WITH EIBACH VALVETRAIN=$2000
IPS MANIFOLD=$2000+

Thats $4k+ right there and all u have is cams and a damn manifold!

My cams=$900(had to buy them new)
My direct port rbc manifold=FREE!! with the NOS kit i bought from the guy for $200!!

Thats just $1100 plus ur header and other CHEAP supporting parts!!!

[112480]

I have never got on any car forum and seen vteckidd ,me ,spoolin , as a matter of fack anybody that has a fast car makingn great power get on here and start threwing out high ass numbers looking for attention but noobs. i hope you enjoy your attention you sure paid enough for it going with a k series lol. Dont worry man you can say what you feel i dont get pissed off honestly im just as bored as you are lol.

LOL, not a noob and not trying to get attention threw high numbers! this is someone else thread and i was just telling that person what i think he should do based off what he was asking, but as usual these type of thread ALWAYS go off in a different direction. LOL! soon enough it becomes a debate.

and once again I AM STILL UNDER $3K!!

[112480]

And ay H22jones u ever get those pics of the c.f hatch for me yet and figure out how much u want for it on top of my hatch??

[Vteckidd]

Gregg i think you can agree that 95% of the poeple on here cant built your engine swap, setup for $3000 thats just wishful thinking.

K20A2 Head $600-900
K24 NON TSX Block $500
Rods and pistons $800
Springs and ret $500
Cams $900
Header $400-600
Tranny $500-1000 depending on EP3 or TYpe-S

then you have the intake manifold, karcepts kit, wiring harness, engine mounts, head work, kpro, axles, fuel system, clutch, flywheel, TB, gaskets, i mean the list goes on and on. I cant see anyone doing that swap even hunting down deals for under $7000-8000 if you pay a shop to build the motor, do the machine work AND THE SWAP.

I think you swapped a lot of parts you previously bought or parted out your D series, so you still have to account for the INITIAL cost.

[112480]

Gregg i think you can agree that 95% of the poeple on here cant built your engine swap, setup for $3000 thats just wishful thinking.


K20A2 Head $600-900

Traded ur header for b series plus $200


K24 NON TSX Block $500

FREE!! TRADED MY GSR TRANNY FOR IT!!


Rods and pistons $800

Pistons$550,Rods$175(Used but for only for 500 miles)


Springs and ret $500

$250 ON A GREAT DEAL! A STEAL ACTUALLY!

Cams $900


Header $400-600

UR HEADER!!! $300 RIGHT? OR WAS IT $350?


Tranny $500-1000 depending on EP3 or TYpe-S
FREE! cause had a lot of ls/vtec parts at the time for sale and just got the type-s tranny and then went and traded it for a Ep3 tranny later when i figured out how much more hp i was adding. Didnt want to spin the whole time in each gear.LOL!!

then you have the intake manifoldFREE wit nos kit purchase,

karcepts kitUSED$50!,

wiring harnessUSED$75!,

engine mountsNEW!$200! A FREAKING STEAL!,

head workT.D headwork that he o'd me from d series parts,

kpro[havent got yet BUT it goes for $1k but i'm trying to get one from this guy for $300 right now[/b],

axles$100,

fuel system$125,

clutchchad gave me a GREAT deal one one but cant remember how much i paid for it,

flywheel$100,

TBtraded parts for Sk2 70mm t.b,

gasketsonce again sold other stuff so no money out of pocket!,

i mean the list goes on and on. AND I CAN TOO MIKE!

I cant see anyone doing that swap even hunting down deals for under $7000-8000 if you pay a shop to build the motor, do the machine work AND THE SWAP.:ninja::ninja::ninja:

I think you swapped a lot of parts you previously bought or parted out your D series, so you still have to account for the INITIAL cost.LOL! nice try mike! LISTEN TO ME! U CANNOT COUNT THE INITIAL COST IN THIS SITUATION CAUSE I DIDNT PAY THE "INTIAL" PRICES!

If u price EVERYTHING BRAND NEW THEN YEAH ITS EXPWNSIVE!

Like i said, PATIENCE YOUNG CATERPILLAR!, PATIENCE!

Oh and for other ppl, i'm not lying about what i bought MY parts for cause i could give a shit what ppl think about me spending a certain amount on my build, i just dont want a noob to read this thread and all the B AND H Series guys scare them away from k series b/c of so called HIGH PRICES!!

[Vteckidd]

I'm not gonna argue but I know what you spent l your d series, your b series parts didn't just magcally appear in your garage nor did the d series parts there is a cost associated regardless.

[112480]

I'm not gonna argue but I know what you spent l your d series, your b series parts didn't just magcally appear in your garage nor did the d series parts there is a cost associated regardless.

Yea mike, the association is there BUT that was for those builds! I'm soely talking about money out of MY pocket as of date for the k series.cost association can go the same for b and h series guys also. But they wouldn't talk about the "Initial" cost of their builds. They will simply tell u what THEY PAID FOR IT OUT OF POCKET AS OF THAT DATE, which is only fair/right.

[Vteckidd]

Just finish it I want a ride :p

[112480]

Just finish it I want a ride :p

YES SIR:goodjob:

[112480]

come on man trading shit thats worth money is still spending money and you have yet to answer any of my questions mr sarcastic do you get your finger nails dirty or are you buying a bunch of shit that somebody else has hoping to make the same power they do by bolting them together im just trying to see if you got what it takes to build a 270 motor car and nas far as i can see since you keep dodging questions is your full of shit. I bet for every motor on here that gets built there is 15 more people that spent there 10 thousand dollar credit card bought a bunch of nice shit took pictures of it bragged about making 270 hp and parted it off 6 months later cause they dont have a clue what there doing and not enough money to finish PAYING SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT. Now your gonna say owe i got the money to pay to finish my car but that doesnt answer the question are you building it yourself or do you have a reputable shop doing it . Holding up nice cams means nothing to me man the cams in my car are 6 years old came out of a customers car that decided to go with pro2 i mean if nyou wanna get down to swapping i have 800 dollars in my motor lol ni almost have as much in getting it tunned as building it but we are talking about the average joe that has to purchase everything and k series are exspensive. You cant get on here and say hey man my grandma wrtecked her rsx gave me the motor and i built it you just got to be patient and you can build one for cheap lol come on get real. Is that your car in your sig cause about three pages ago a guy said something about you putting your motor in and taking it back out to build it and you said no you building it firts so if thats not even your car in your sig then thats just funny as shit man and explains everything . Your buddys might think since you have a bunch of high priced shit laying around that your king of the streets but not here and my offer stands 4000 build two motors see what they do i got a few hatch bodies ill let you use one so we can keep the weight the same what you wanna do you get your deals and i get mine?

LOL!! Yes i get my fingers dirty and NO I HAVENT SEEN MY SETUP AND JUST DECIDED TO COPY IT IN HOPES OF A BIG NUMBER! And as for my sig, i like the picture so i put it in my sig. Who in the Hell said i had to put my shit in the sig??? Its just a damn picture. And i got those pics of me holding my cams from my k20a.org thread just showing them off since noone has posted Go-power products on there yet. I just wanted to show them NOT brag about them.

AND U CAN BUILD A K SWAP FOR CHEAP!! SORRY U DONT THINK SO. but ur entitled to UR opinion! I know what i've paid so thats that. And Mainstream is putting it together for me.

[h22 jones]

well get it together i wanna race lol. On a serious note you going to commerc sunday ? If so ill bring the trunk lid so you can see it. who is doing your head work and are they doing the intake and exaust also just wondering cause i know main stream doesnt since we did scottie one the other day so if you need done let me know ill hook you up . Make sure what ever you do get it done ,intake to match head ,head to match exaust you know the drill if you trying to make that kind of power.

[112480]

On a serious note you going to commerc sunday ? If so ill bring the trunk lid so you can see it.

Yep just pissed like everyone else cause its still a 80% chance of rain.


who is doing your head work and are they doing the intake and exaust also just wondering cause i know main stream doesnt since we did scottie one the other day so if you need done let me know ill hook you up .

Charles at Mainstream is doing it on BOTH intake and exhaust.



Make sure what ever you do get it done ,intake to match head ,head to match exaust you know the drill if you trying to make that kind of power.

Already ahead of u bro:goodjob:

[r.etheridge]

Correct me if im wrong, but this is a NA section of IA right?
k is no longer cool, lol


i made over 250whp and 190 wtq in a SOHC on 12psi.....

agreed

x3

exactly! no need 4 k series for 200whp.... if u want way more do k and build it

[h22 jones]

I didnt know mainstream was doing it when i asked that charles will take care of you and it will be done right im sure.

[Gorilla Eg!]

drop in a k20a and tune it.....any more questions?

[h22 jones]

Yea cause for 6000 dollars you will be oh so cool and oh so fast man any more questions .yea why would you spend 6000 to run low 13 when you could spend 6000 to run low 12 for the average person lol.

[MR.EM1]

fuck a k series..get a j32

[Gorilla Eg!]

bec a k20a is a STOCK motor that makes the power FULLY BUILT b/h-series motor makes, say what you want to, but a factory motor that STARTS OFF making what a built motor MIGHT make is a NO BRAINER......period

[Gorilla Eg!]

Yea cause for 6000 dollars you will be oh so cool and oh so fast man any more questions .yea why would you spend 6000 to run low 13 when you could spend 6000 to run low 12 for the average person lol.

how in the hell are you gettin 34.5 MPG with that much hp?.....props if thats a true number!

[Starrfire]

stock k power is not even close to a fully built h22. They are both about the same power with the same bolt ons except the k has a slight advantage of technology. And even a built b can still destroy a k. Just because they are old doesn't mean they can't go just as fast.

[h22 jones]

Have to ask scottie at mainstream that one I don't tune cars just build them but last tank was 33 one before was 34.5 . I'm sure if I drove the shit out of it alll the time it would be worse but normal driving a dd like your supposed to around 34 and I posted up a thread on here not to long ago seems I'm not the only one getting that kind of gas mileage

[h22 jones]

Are you kidding me stock k series makes the same power fully built h series make that's funnny man stock k and h series make the same power only reason a k series is faster at all is the trany. ]ut a b16 trany on a stock h series and beat a k all day somebody needs to do there home work .

[0\s accord]

bout time i see another d series guy!
Why wait? Im ready now.... Im not a b/h/k/j/f series guy, im actually a d series guy.(But thats not the point)..... Ok listen and listen closely. K swap guys dont talk about b series or h series guys because after spending all the money on the swap and the million things you have to do to get the damn thing to run they realize they still have to build the motor because its still not fast. Im guessing thats what u did, thats why u had the motor in and pulled it back out to build it. (maybe im wrong, but this is most cases)

BTW everybody in this thread is referring to a stock k series or hybrid swap in a civic or what not. You are referring to a built motor swap (completely different) Anything built should be fast. The point isnt that a built k series isnt fast, the point is that to swap a stock k in you couldve been considerably faster. Yes they are new, and look nice in the engine bay, but most ppl will wait until it becomes cheaper. In 3 years i will probably have a stock k series in my sedan, but for now i'll wait.

im tossing u some reps because i like the fact that u stand by what u believe in.....



That says it all...... reps 4 u 2

[bigdare23]

This thread is still alive? LOL

[112480]

This thread is still alive? LOL

YEP:goodjob:

[Catnip]

bec a k20a is a STOCK motor that makes the power FULLY BUILT b/h-series motor makes, say what you want to, but a factory motor that STARTS OFF making what a built motor MIGHT make is a NO BRAINER......period

Last I checked, K20a didn't make 250+whp stock...

[112480]

Stock i/h/e and tune

B-series:
B16: 135-145whp
B18C1: 145-155whp
B18C5: 170-180whp

H22: Actually dont know. LOL! somebody fill this in!

K20A3: 180-190whp
K20A2: 195-205whp
K20A(Type-R): 210-220whp
K24A2:205-210whp BUT with 160-170wtq!

These R STOCK estimates with i/h/e and tune; ie: crome,hondata S2-300,K-Pro,Neptune etc etc blah blah blah

AND it depends on ur location and whos TUNING!! UR CAR!!

[NEMO]

Stock i/h/e and tune

B-series:
B16: 135-145whp
B18C1: 145-155whp
B18C5: 170-180whp

H22: Actually dont know. LOL! somebody fill this in!

K20A3: 180-190whp
K20A2: 195-205whp
K20A(Type-R): 210-220whp
K24A2:205-210whp BUT with 160-170wtq!

These R STOCK estimates with i/h/e and tune; ie: crome,hondata S2-300,K-Pro,Neptune etc etc blah blah blah

AND it depends on ur location and whos TUNING!! UR CAR!!
200-225whp 150-165tq

[Starrfire]

And k20a3's royaly suck. No way with bolt ons they make that kinda power with those mods. The B estimates are kinda low. Personally I've seen less modified b series make more power than that on a low reading dyno. H22 estimate by NEMO is pretty much on the money. Easy power with an h22a. I/E h22a's can make 200 whp, seen it too without a header.

[112480]

And k20a3's royaly suck. No way with bolt ons they make that kinda power with those mods. The B estimates are kinda low. Personally I've seen less modified b series make more power than that on a low reading dyno. H22 estimate by NEMO is pretty much on the money. Easy power with an h22a. I/E h22a's can make 200 whp, seen it too without a header.

Have to diagree wit u on the b series estimates. I've been to MANY MANY dyno days and personal session wit buddies with b16,18c1,18c5 and those r right with i/h/e and crome/neptune/hoondata etc etc.

And NEMO i would LOVE to see a h22a WITH ONLY i/h/e and tune make 225whp! on Mainstream or battleground dyno. NOT balance performance!

[Vteckidd]

Stock ENGINES
B-series:
B16: 135-145whp
B18C1: 145-155whp
B18C5: 170-180whp

H22: 175-185whp

K20A3: 135-140whp
K20A2: 175-185whp
K20A(Type-R): 190-200whp


BOLTONS Meaning $400-500 header 2.5in collector, Intake, Exhaust, NO CAT and a tune

B-series:
B16: 155-165whp
B18C1: 175-185whp
B18C5: 190-200whp

H22: 190-210whp (really depends on the year of the H22)

K20A3: 155-160whp
K20A2: 195-200whp
K20A(Type-R): 200-210whp



You were comparing STOCK B Series hp output with modded K Series output. No K20A3 makes 180-190whp with i/h/e, those motors SUCK ask Chunky. I think the most he ever got out of his was 170s with custom grind cams.

These numbers are backed up by 5-6 cars per category ive personally dynoed or tested.

Brandons RSX Type-S with DC Race header, intake , exhaust, KPRO made 189whp, Josh Greens K20A2 with i/h/e made 200whp, my B18C5 made 198whp, Prelude i did at BG with i/h/e and a tune made 190/155, Eric the old tech from mainstream his EP3 made 135whp STOCK, 150whp with i/h/e. I can go on an on an on

[Vteckidd]

bec a k20a is a STOCK motor that makes the power FULLY BUILT b/h-series motor makes, say what you want to, but a factory motor that STARTS OFF making what a built motor MIGHT make is a NO BRAINER......period

youre smoking crack. AT BEST a K Series motor makes 10-15WHP more than its B series counterpart.

K20A TYPE R engine makes 10-15whp more than B18C5, TOPS. Ive seen plenty of K20A motors make sub 200whp, ive seen plenty of B18C5s make high 180s.

So many people see "K" and they automatically think its some 20-30-40-50whp gain, ITS NOT.

[h22 jones]

For once I realy don't have much to say mike pretty much summed it up but to those who think we are hating on k series were not there great motors with great power we are just hating on what they cost for the power verses what you (most) people have in there stock k series swapes so I prefer the 252 hp for less money simple as that.

[h22 jones]

A h22 type s will make 225 with a h2b kit and bolt ons stock internals . And I feel the same way about them motors over priced for the power but before I dropped the money on a k series I would buy a h22 type s stock for less money and make more power stock and it comes with a great gear ratio trany . Wish I had a m2w4 if anybody has one I will buy it lol.

[teh_mugen18]

This thread is still alive? LOL



haha im just as suprised, i say that to myself every time i still see this thread at the top of the Allmotor forum

[all-mota]

lmao at the tag for this damn thread...


k is gay just sayin!! vteckidd=cocksucker weareallstillslow

[Catnip]

Brandons RSX Type-S with DC Race header, intake , exhaust, KPRO made 189whp

If the DC race RSX header looks the same as a race K-swap header, no wonder it only made 189whp... lol

[scttydb411]

how in the hell are you gettin 34.5 MPG with that much hp?.....props if thats a true number!

it's a true #. his track times and dynosheet prove it. the mileage is all in the tune and how you drive it.

[Vteckidd]

my supercharged ITR CRX that made 240/160 got 32mpg, scotty tuned

[h22 jones]

Ran a 12.3 Friday night at 109 not as fast as I would have liked but I think the times back up the hp .I'm not sure how to prove the mpg but its true I have no reason to lie I could give you the miles per tank of gas and the gallons of the gas tank if you would like.

[112480]

Ran a 12.3 Friday night at 109 not as fast as I would have liked but I think the times back up the hp .I'm not sure how to prove the mpg but its true I have no reason to lie I could give you the miles per tank of gas and the gallons of the gas tank if you would like.

Were u on slicks? what size? Drag radials? what size? Shit if u were on drags then 12.3 is GREAT! Cause wit the right size slicks u know its a 11 sec car all day!

[Vteckidd]

109 is a little low, what was your 60ft?

I think Jones always runs 22s...slicks. 12.3 is fast, its really hard to get into the 11s

[h22 jones]

22 inch slicks . I was trapping almost 111 all night but I couldn't keep enough air in the slicks to hook and trap 111. If I put 14 pounds in the slicks it spun through first but trapped 111 with a 1.9 60 foot. If I put 11 pounds it ran 12.3 spining just a little which was perfect with a 1.79 60 foot time trapping low 109 ill keep playing with it.remember this is not my race car but the si hatch that my dad drives everyday it has no wieght reduction at all . It weighs over 2500 pounds with me in it. It also is running a h series trany not a h2b like I'm running. I would love to see this car hit 11 but I know mine will and we are not willing to tear this car apart to do it.

[h22 jones]

Don't get the wrong idea I drive fairley well as I have been doing this for along time and I try to give as much information as I can so yaw can give your opions . I don't know everything and any advice would be grately appreciated . I'm willing to do anything other than strip the car and go h2b to put this thing in the 11s. I also figured out at the end of the night that it wasn't so much the air pressure in the slicks as the left lane sucked ass so I honestly believe if I would have put 14 pouns and run in the right lane I might have got a little better time but deffently not 11s.

[NEMO]

h22 jones, what kind of suspension are you running? what did you weigh in at? traction bar?

[112480]

What about running 24.5" slicks? U have more than enough to run those.

[NEMO]

What about running 24.5" slicks? U have more than enough to run those.
thats what i was thinking

[all-mota]

24.5's about 10lbs in slicks if they don't leak air and you should be good to go

[h22 jones]

Last time I weighed with different slicks but should be close 2450 pounds with me in it . I wiegh 220 lol but I'm 6`6" so 220 is actualy what I'm supposed to weigh lol. If I run 24.5 inch slick its going to kill my gear ratio I'm running a h series trany not the greatest gear setup. I realy like the h2b setup cause with a b16 trany and 24.5 it puts your gear ratio right back were mine is now but with bigger slicks . My dad doesn't wanna go h2b so have to do something different. It had a m2b4 lsd trany in it but every now and then I didn't wanna go in fourth so we put a t2t4 trany in it why we fixed that one . A t2t4 trany has the same gear ratio as a 5 gen prelude trany it sucks so maybe putting the m2b4 trany back in it will help out some its fixed now so ill put it back in soon enough. I'm hopeing that I can get traction with the 22-9 slicks with 14 pounds with good track prep.

[h22 jones]

I don't have a traction bar but I thought that was mainly for wheel hop which I have none of. I'm running cheap coil overs with cute accord springs which are realy stiff and disperses the weight pretty good . I wanted 1.7 60 foot times and that's were I'm at and I'm not launching at 8000 so its not realy hard on the car. I mean the car leave strait no wheel hop and when it hooks I couldn't ask for anything better just for a little more air in the slicks. Maybe ill lower the launch limiter 500 and put 14 pounds in the slicks so I can get my trap speed back up. If I can get it to hook and trap 111 it should be real close to a 11 second car . Any ideas on weight reduction with out cutting the car up and this car has ac and heat so I don't wanna sacrfise that either lol yea I know sounds stupid but when yaw sweating in the staging lanes I want be lol.

[112480]

Any ideas on weight reduction with out cutting the car up and this car has ac and heat so I don't wanna sacrfise that either lol yea I know sounds stupid but when yaw sweating in the staging lanes I want be lol.

Well the usual c.f this, c.f that, front seats for aluminum ones or real light bucket seats, lexan(FAL) rear hatch window etc etc..............

[Jenson]

Sounds like if you went on a well prepped track day you could hook up with the 22's.

[SPOOLIN]

traction bars don't help wheel hop, they keep a slick from ripping your front bumper off. Ask Josh Green :)

[LiveaxleLS1]

answer to OP's question: at least two extra cylinders and around twice the displacement.

[112480]

answer to OP's question: at least two extra cylinders and around twice the displacement.

Yea and twice the money!

[ejohnson88]

Someone asked earlier what my car does in the 1/4... so just for some updated news.... new best time on streets is a 13.90 @ 103.2... All that from a barely 195 hp 2500lb coupe ( low end guesstimate). The 350z that i roasted from the dig on out wasn't very happy about that run haha... He even brought along a passenger, which made it even funnier when he ran a 14.94 haha >.<