I had a thought bout the Bible

[JDM onlyy]

Ok, so the Bible is supposed to be the book of "God" right?

But, who wrote the book? People, just like you and me.

You can argue and say "prophets" were told what to write in the Bible for others to read. How do we know they weren't just crazy, delusional schizophrenics and heard voices in their heads and thought it was "God" speaking to them?

And to those who say you hear "God" speaking to you, what does he say?
How do you know its "God" and not you being a schizo?
Why wouldn't "God" just write what he wanted to tell us in stone and let it persevere through the ages for all of mankind to see instead of letting just a few people tell us what he wants?

Just a few questions that came to thought.

Discuss.

[ISAtlanta300]

Ok, so the Bible is supposed to be the book of "God" right?

But, who wrote the book? People, just like you and me.

You can argue and say "prophets" were told what to write in the Bible for others to read. How do we know they weren't just crazy, delusional schizophrenics and heard voices in their heads and thought it was "God" speaking to them?

And to those who say you hear "God" speaking to you, what does he say?
How do you know its "God" and not you being a schizo?
Why wouldn't "God" just write what he wanted to tell us in stone and let it persevere through the ages for all of mankind to see instead of letting just a few people tell us what he wants?

Just a few questions that came to thought.

Discuss.

1. I understand where you are coming from, but please understand that the Bible is not A book, but a collection of books, i.e. the gospels were written by the apostles. Other parts were written by the Hebrews, Kings, Moses, etc. etc etc.....So it should have been quite a few 'psycho' people hearing voices for quite some time.... years even....

2. According to the scriptures, God DID write his 10 commandments in stone tablets from mount Sinai. They should still exist somewhere in the ark of the covenant, but we won't know for sure until that artifact is found.

[geoff]

+1

[JDM onlyy]

1. I understand where you are coming from, but please understand that the Bible is not A book, but a collection of books, i.e. the gospels were written by the apostles. Other parts were written by the Hebrews, Kings, Moses, etc. etc etc.....So it should have been quite a few 'psycho' people hearing voices for quite some time.... years even....

2. According to the scriptures, God DID write his 10 commandments in stone tablets from mount Sinai. They should still exist somewhere in the ark of the covenant, but we won't know for sure until that artifact is found.

How do we know that a man didn't write that in stone?

Also, the I'm not saying they're psycho. Its just, all these people wrote this stuff...I mean why is it that we must listen to what they wrote? Couldn't I have wrote something completely opposite of what they wrote back then and if people accepted it, then that would've became the book of God, no?

I'm just saying, a MAN wrote these books, or MEN I should say. Yeah, they can say God told them to, but once again I could also say God told me to write something else. Before right became right and wrong became wrong people were doing things as they please and there was no rule, now if I had wrote it before this time that killing was what God wanted, then would we have obeyed that?

[StreetHazard]

How do we know that a man didn't write that in stone?

Also, the I'm not saying they're psycho. Its just, all these people wrote this stuff...I mean why is it that we must listen to what they wrote? Couldn't I have wrote something completely opposite of what they wrote back then and if people accepted it, then that would've became the book of God, no?

I'm just saying, a MAN wrote these books, or MEN I should say. Yeah, they can say God told them to, but once again I could also say God told me to write something else. Before right became right and wrong became wrong people were doing things as they please and there was no rule, now if I had wrote it before this time that killing was what God wanted, then would we have obeyed that?


You are stating what many others have stated for many years before ANY of us.

One of the earliest documented outspoken Atheist was actually a French parish priest by the name of Jean Meslier. On his death in 1729 he was found to have left what he called his "testament" to his parishioners, a book-length essay denouncing all religion as false and praising atheist morality. He said religion was "but a castle in the air", and theology was "but ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system." "Religions, to him, were fabrications fostered by ruling elites; although the earliest Christians had been exemplary in sharing their goods, Christianity had long since degenerated into encouraging the acceptance of suffering and submission to tyranny as practised by the kings of France. Injustice was explained away as being the will of an all-wise Being.

None of the arguments used by Meslier against the existence of God were original, in fact, he derived them from books written by orthodox theologians in the debate between the Jesuits, Cartesians, and Jansenists and their inability to agree on a proof for God's existence was taken by Meslier as a good reason not to presume that there was compelling grounds for belief in God.

In his most famous quote, Meslier refers to a man who:

"...wished that all the great men in the world and all the nobility could be hanged, and strangled with the guts of the priests."
Meslier admits that the statement may seem crude and shocking, but comments that this is what the priests and nobility deserve, not for reasons of revenge or hatred, but for love of justice and truth.

The famous philosopher and writer Voltaire often mentioned Meslier referring to him as "a good priest" in his correspondence, in which he tells his daughter to "read and read again" Meslier's only work, and says that "every honest man should have Meslier's Testament in his pocket."





But the answer to your original inquiry lies within your ability to believe in something you cannot prove...hence the word "faith". But you are not alone in your heresy :D

[S2KJD]

hence the word "faith".

agreed :goodjob:

[StreetHazard]

hence the word "faith".



agreed :goodjob:

But that is not to say "faith" in a religious connotation is a positive virtue.

Your mental state, reasoning and intelligence would be better served studying the works of philosophers like Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietzsche, Ayn Rand, Voltaire and Aristotle than anything contained within the Holy Bible. Which the entire work of the Bible does not read like something eloquently put down to paper, but a work that reads as something so much as (SHOUTED) from a screaming madman tied upside down from the tallest bell tower while bleeding from many wounds of flagellation into delirium, and scrawled the contents of it onto the city walls with his own shit and blood. And what we see reprinted was the result.

[S2KJD]

studying the works

you choose to to learn and understand that way as im perfectly comfortable and secure with my way of attending church and being taught through the Bible from our pastor.

glad we have something in common: studying. just in different forms :)

[ISAtlanta300]

How do we know that a man didn't write that in stone?

Also, the I'm not saying they're psycho. Its just, all these people wrote this stuff...I mean why is it that we must listen to what they wrote? Couldn't I have wrote something completely opposite of what they wrote back then and if people accepted it, then that would've became the book of God, no?

I'm just saying, a MAN wrote these books, or MEN I should say. Yeah, they can say God told them to, but once again I could also say God told me to write something else. Before right became right and wrong became wrong people were doing things as they please and there was no rule, now if I had wrote it before this time that killing was what God wanted, then would we have obeyed that?


Dude, this has been discussed ad nauseum. How do we know a man didn't? how do we know a man did? How do we know that we weren't all flaming homosexuals that became extinct at one point only to resurface again with the dinosaurs? NO ONE KNOWS.

The only thing we know is that 1. These books WERE written 2. Mostly we know and we have an idea BY WHOM.

Whether it was God or their own minds who put out the story and the bible we will NEVER know, because they are not around for us to evaluate and question.

But if you take everything into consideration, either there was a problem with the country's air quality and these people were inhaling gasses, or they were truly inspired by something or someone.

[Red_EJ1]

its called faith, the thoughts your having are (and im sure you will call me crazy) from the devil he wants you to have those thoughts to make YOU ? your faith,and as for your do we hear god question ... he does not talk to us in word.. when the world betrayed Jesus.. and i say the world because we are one in gods eyes and it does not matter if some were with Jesus and some were not we are one, now as far as god talking to us theres this thing that happens to everyone in there lives its called having your eyes opened from GOD, now some realize this is a message from god and take it in and some do not but for the ones who do you will start to look at things in a whole new light small things you will see as signs from GOD, but theres also a flip side to that... for the Jews god will not let them open theres eyes to Jesus at least not yet the Jews are who killed Jesus for they all said theres is no way a human could be from gods decent and there for taking him as a false profit, so this is why god will not let them believe in Jesus yet but the Jews are still gods people and he will not turn from them, but he does still make them obied by the ten commandments, and for us well we live by the blood the blood of Jesus there for we are forgiven for all sins, now as far you saying well who wrote the bible and were they crazy no they just had there eyes opened and took it in and listened to god, as far people who do not believe in god just remember god always believes in you, alot of people say well i dont believe in god but i still have a good life well thats because he still believes in you, just look around you,, to say you dont believe in god is to say you dont live, for example if you kill someone witch in most country's is the worst crime well why is that... well because its the worst sin, god is in are laws minds and hearts you fill love because thats what god wanted you to fill so the next time your with you girl of family just think to yourself about what love is and why you fill it. and just remember its not he is... its GOD is, i could talk about this all day i love my life and i love GOD and i love the things god has givin me

[StreetHazard]

its called faith, the thoughts your having are (and im sure you will call me crazy) from the devil he wants you to have those thoughts to make YOU ? your faith,and as for your do we hear god question ... he does not talk to us in word.. when the world betrayed Jesus.. and i say the world because we are one in gods eyes and it does not matter if some were with Jesus and some were not we are one, now as far as god talking to us theres this thing that happens to everyone in there lives its called having your eyes opened from GOD, now some realize this is a message from god and take it in and some do not but for the ones who do you will start to look at things in a whole new light small things you will see as signs from GOD, but theres also a flip side to that... for the Jews god will not let them open theres eyes to Jesus at least not yet the Jews are who killed Jesus for they all said theres is no way a human could be from gods decent and there for taking him as a false profit, so this is why god will not let them believe in Jesus yet but the Jews are still gods people and he will not turn from them, but he does still make them obied by the ten commandments, and for us well we live by the blood the blood of Jesus there for we are forgiven for all sins, now as far you saying well who wrote the bible and were they crazy no they just had there eyes opened and took it in and listened to god, as far people who do not believe in god just remember god always believes in you, alot of people say well i dont believe in god but i still have a good life well thats because he still believes in you, just look around you,, to say you dont believe in god is to say you dont live, for example if you kill someone witch in most country's is the worst crime well why is that... well because its the worst sin, god is in are laws minds and hearts you fill love because thats what god wanted you to fill so the next time your with you girl of family just think to yourself about what love is and why you fill it. and just remember its not he is... its GOD is, i could talk about this all day i love my life and i love GOD and i love the things god has givin me

I am not sure where to begin with this...This has so many holes in it I could drive a truck through them. Instead I will nod my head and let you continue on your laughable, blissful christian life.

[geoff]

how do you know the words of aristotle or any philosopher from way back when are actually their own and not copied by someone else? you dont, you simply believe thats what it is. if you actually take the time and read the bible you will see its not a book or like anything ever written before, the way it flows, the thought pattern, the delicacy of it, ect...all way too advanced for anyone thousands of years ago to come up with. these were pretty primitive people and there is no way any of them had the intelligence to come up with something like this. i would also like to throw this out, for those with true unwavering faith, the Word of God is something we are willing to die for, many have and many more will. has anyone ever died for aristotles writings, or karl marx, or voiltare?

redej1- nice to see someone else with a passion for God, but you have a few things twisted ( biblically that is ) for one God does speek to people through His Word ( i have experienced this) for the next, it was the Holy Spirit that moved on the men that wrote the bible and opened these peoples eyes, its the Holy Spirit that first calls men to repentance and draws them to the Lord. next, the jews are not the only ones that are God's people, there is no more distinction between gentile and jew, and there are jews who convert to the belief in the Lord. the jews do have a promise tho and thats why God has not turned from them. and lastly, murder is not the worst sin, in fact the bible says that all sin is equal in God's eyes and that the ONLY unforgivable sin is blaspheming of the Holy Ghost.

[StreetHazard]

how do you know the words of aristotle or any philosopher from way back when are actually their own and not copied by someone else? you dont, you simply believe thats what it is. if you actually take the time and read the bible you will see its not a book or like anything ever written before, the way it flows, the thought pattern, the delicacy of it, ect...all way too advanced for anyone thousands of years ago to come up with. these were pretty primitive people and there is no way any of them had the intelligence to come up with something like this. i would also like to throw this out, for those with true unwavering faith, the Word of God is something we are willing to die for, many have and many more will. has anyone ever died for aristotles writings, or karl marx, or voiltare?

I am going to stop you right there, and ask if you are fucking serious? Do you think at all before you type? I would hate to imagine what you are like in person.

I could start by...well BECAUSE THEIR WORKS WERE PUBLISHED IN THEIR NAMES! it would be like saying Einsteins papers were not really his, but interpreted by someone else! Geoff you really are clueless when comes to ANYTHING outside of scripture, and even that you are not very good at.

And assuming people were "to primitive" to achieve things that by all appearances seem to fall outside of their capabilities is ignorance. Stone Henge, Angkor Wat in Cambodia and the Pyramids at Giza come to mind right off of my head, and you are grossly overestimating the ideas put forth in the bible...they are not groundbreaking at all, as these same myths correspond with others found in Egyptian sun worship and the "Son/Sun" of Horus, and in greek mythology and also in legends found from ancient Sumeria.

^ I was thinking about making a thread about this soon, but probably will not be worth the time.

And reasons why you would die for your "faith" is simply beyond my reasoning, personally I think it has more "political" motivations at the heads of the organization that helps structure and shape it's beliefs than any real religious reasons (IE: the Vatican of old, or Hamas in modern times). But I am glad the answer is NO to that question...As far as I know, no one has waged a war in Aristotle's name, but they have used their works to justify their actions in war like in the case of Karl Marx and the rise of communism which Lenin, then Stalin famously adopted his ideas which lead to the communist revolution and ushered in the Soviet Union. Germany rallied against these ideas and "elected" Hitler to stave off the communist threat.

So yes, in a way people have died over their ideas like religion. Those authors objectively analyze human nature, and the nature of the human spirit concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. I am honestly stunned that I had to explain that to you, or anyone...Your ignorance will never cease to amaze me, but ignorance and faith are as pleased with each others company like flies and shit. Explaining anything to you feels like a waste of time and makes me ashamed that somehow people like you escaped a basic education, or you have chosen to ignore it which saddens me.

[5speed]

Humanity= Politics in every which way and form

I myself have come to a conclusion on my beliefs. I believe in a God. I do NOT believe I should worship it or provide works in Gods name. It is human nature to want to believe in something to give reasoning for anything and everything, which is where Religion come to play. If there was evidence that everyone on Earth accepted that shows proof to a God or Gods then I would say it/they abandoned us.

I do go to a non denominational church but only because I just like listening to other peoples beliefs no matter what they are. The pastor is a great guy but I swear some things that come out of his mouth are misconstrued. For example the other day he said that the reason we go through sufferings no matter how bad is to show that we are men of God whether evil or holy, and we can survive anything. What about those who do not survive? What about those who survive and are broken mentally and spiritually (if you believe in having a spirit)? It just sounds like a load of bull shit that is given to justify cruelties.

People who accept these beliefs seem to ignore a lot of things just so they can have their mind at rest and have one less thing to worry about.

[geoff]

streethazard- thanx for the history lesson but your not telling me something i dont know. my point was that we can not interogate these people. we take the accepted belief that it was there work. and since when has publishing something in your name actually mean you came up with it? =plagiarism. not good at scripture huh?:no: if there is one thing i can say for myself is that i have studied in depth the scriptures and study to show myself approved. try again buddy. as far as the bible not being anything special, hmmmm havent seen a similar work that stands up to it yet. those monuments of history were created using lots of back work, trial and error, loss of life, and some injinuity.

5speed- how ya doin bro?suprised to hear you say you believe God abandoned us....

[Starrfire]

streethazard- thanx for the history lesson but your not telling me something i dont know. my point was that we can not interogate these people. we take the accepted belief that it was there work. and since when has publishing something in your name actually mean you came up with it? =plagiarism. not good at scripture huh?:no: if there is one thing i can say for myself is that i have studied in depth the scriptures and study to show myself approved. try again buddy. as far as the bible not being anything special, hmmmm havent seen a similar work that stands up to it yet. those monuments of history were created using lots of back work, trial and error, loss of life, and some injinuity.

5speed- how ya doin bro?suprised to hear you say you believe God abandoned us....

So you don't believe Voltaire, Cervantes,Galileo,Socrates. Do you believe in Ghengis Khan? How about Alexander The Great? You would deny reality and all similar ideas. Their ideals survived mainly because they were the ones who WROTE history whether through their works of writing or because the utterly conquered other groups of people so that their ideas would be passed on. Do you think Carthage existed?

You would deny truth to say it is exactly as true as your bible. Well go ahead and believe its truth just like when the world supposedly flooded over every mountain peak and Noah supposedly built a boat to carry animals of every species on it(even the ones we have just recently discovered).

[JDM onlyy]

as far as the bible not being anything special, hmmmm havent seen a similar work that stands up to it yet.

Hmm, the Quran comes to mind...

I'm not Muslim or anything but to me it seems the Quran would be a better book to abide by if you wanted to really listen to the original "Prophet" of that religion. Did you know that the Quran has not once been edited or changed because that it is a sin in their religion?

The Bible has been changed multiple times. Just as many people on this very thread have said, people have added what they wanted to it. King James decided to revise the whole thing and reprint it in how he felt it should be. With that being said, I feel like its just whomever had power at the time, had the power to change the Bible. So the Bible could've gone through a massive change, and no one will truly know if those are the words of God coming from the actual "Prophet".

Don't get me wrong, I believe in a higher being, but for some reason, I have a feeling everyone's higher being whether it be God, Allah, or Buddha is the same. I just think he came to everyone in a different form so the people would accept him. They all teach generally the same principles...has anyone else ever thought bout this as well?

[geoff]

starfire- i do believe in all those people you listed. i just also believe the bible.

jdmonlyy- um the bible has not been " changed " it has been translated into different languages. the bible we have today is the same one from around 2000 years ago that they taught with. please before you say things do the research. you can look up the dead sea scrolls for physical proof. there is a difference brother between allah, buddha, zues, Jesus, ect... different principles and goals and so on.

[StreetHazard]

starfire- i do believe in all those people you listed. i just also believe the bible.

jdmonlyy- um the bible has not been " changed " it has been translated into different languages. the bible we have today is the same one from around 2000 years ago that they taught with. please before you say things do the research. you can look up the dead sea scrolls for physical proof. there is a difference brother between allah, buddha, zues, Jesus, ect... different principles and goals and so on.


While there are a number of versions to the Bible. There are 8 primary versions found in history:


Septuagint - 250 C.E. Written in Greek


Vulgate- 400 C.E. First version of the Bible which is canonized at the Council of Carthage in 400 C.E. Written in Latin


Luther's German Bible- 1534 C.E.


King James Version- 1611 C.E. This is the most widely used versions however it has large number of errors given that none of the writers had a decent understanding of Hebrew.


Revised Standard Version- 1952 C.E. Liberal translation into American English which used the earliest possible text


New International Version- 1960's & 70's C.E. This is a conservative, contemporary English version


Jerusalem Bible- 1966 C.E. This is the first version of the Bible to be commisioned by the Catholic Church since the 400's.


New Revised Standard Version- 1990 C.E. This is the most academic and scholarly version with the most accurately possible translations of the original text.





Amazon lists the top ten in current sales in the USA (as of 8/17/2009) to be the NAB, NRSV, NIV, KJV, Message, NASB, NLT, RSV, Amplified, and the Orthodox Study Bible.


NAB---New American Bible


NRSV---New Revised Standard Version


NIV---New International Version


KJV---King James Version


Message---"The Message"


NASB---New American Standard Bible


NLT---New Living Translation


RSV---Revised Standard Version


Amplified---Amplified Bible (Revision of the American Standard Version)


Orthodox Study Bible---Adds a new translation of the LXX to an existing translation of the NKJV in a single volume.



^^^ now we can go from here and actually see differences in translations and meanings of scripture within most of these works, that all depend on how the scholars decided to convey the scripture in translation, most offer footnotes from theologians as well that help clarify a desired message under the guise of "research" or "fact".

[geoff]

i would like to see your research or proof of the kjv not being accurate.

[StreetHazard]

i would like to see your research or proof of the kjv not being accurate.


Find it yourself, I'm not inclined to hold your hand across the street. And does it really matter? there are other versions far more accurate, or as accurate as it could be to the ancient writing.

in an ironic twist of fate, I almost feel like I am helping you become a more knowledgeable christian. I need to stop this and start planting seeds of descent instead.

[geoff]

i have done alot of studying. im not one to be led around with my eyes closed. as i was growing in faith i studied the bible and other theories alot. its hard to accuratedly translate an ancient language. we have newer words and such that they didnt. i believe i saw a study once that concluded that the kjv was 90% accurate to the latin, greek, hebrew versions of the dead sea scrolls. the 10% missing was the adding of verbs, adjectives,ect in the english language so the english version would make sense. by the way i dont buy into that subnote connotation provided by " men of God " at the bottom of the page. i believe in a personal relationship with Jesus and take the scripture either literally or how God shows me it

[StreetHazard]

i have done alot of studying. im not one to be led around with my eyes closed. as i was growing in faith i studied the bible and other theories alot. its hard to accuratedly translate an ancient language. we have newer words and such that they didnt. i believe i saw a study once that concluded that the kjv was 90% accurate to the latin, greek, hebrew versions of the dead sea scrolls. the 10% missing was the adding of verbs, adjectives,ect in the english language so the english version would make sense. by the way i dont buy into that subnote connotation provided by " men of God " at the bottom of the page. i believe in a personal relationship with Jesus and take the scripture either literally or how God shows me it


I don't give a shit, I was just letting you know there are MANY different versions of the bible, that vary in wide degrees of accuracy. And the dead sea scrolls are not considered a "Bible" they are only pages of it.

I don't care why, or how you are a christian, or how you choose to interpret the bible. By providing this list it shows the wide margin of "faith" and "belief" within Christianities own ranks, and everyone of them think their version is the proper way.

You are no exception.

[geoff]

its the Holy Ghost given to men that leads us to whats true.

[StreetHazard]

:taun:
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[Starrfire]

Lulz

[StreetHazard]

This might be something some of you will find interesting. It is a "interview" or debate with the Christian evangelist Bob Larson and high ranking members of the Church of Satan, Anton LeVay's daughter Zeena LeVay and a one-eared man named Nikolas Schreck, which now currently are married.

This is just a glimpse into this philosophy, but you can witness a very visibly stumped christian. I thought Bob Larson handled himself well, and I certainly noticed him NOT attempting to use scripture as a bases for many of his arguments or points, which was very smart of him to do so because his interview would have been a complete embarrassment for him if he did, but I can see how it must have been hard for him to avoid it as it shapes his entire worldview.

Not because I am biased, (well maybe) but I certainly give the win in this little exchange to the one-eared man in the black suit, he brings up valid points that many people choose not to even consider, and he doesn't even seem to be trying to. He's not the most eloquent debater, but neither is Larson so the exchange comes across as very honest and civil but Larson still seems to be back peddling and visibly shaken.

I know their are better filmed religious debates out there, but for me...this one is a classic.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLRIbEQaTvc&feature=related

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71hpxR9UWM&feature=related

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXNqs10as9o

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSGSlP2yPpE

Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTbQ7MIyxI&feature=related

Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=823RtTCRWW8

Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Sb9kVll74

Part 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVX3DdJ_i-A

Part 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhwG4uEePUk

Part 10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGO0BR9I30 <---------------------------------This

[5speed]

5speed- how ya doin bro?suprised to hear you say you believe God abandoned us....

In any relgious way I believe there has been abondonment taken place. But I do not believe in any religion. Therfore I do not feel abondoned just neglected sometimes. I believe God is all that is good/evil and beautiful/ugly. I have opened up to Christianity with devotion because things I have felt. I do believe it was spiritual. The more I learned about the Bible the more it led me away from it. When it comes to religipn you can't just pick and choose what you like to believe and discard what you don't. It is all or nothing. There is no way I could ever convince myself to believe some of its teachings. I do think there are great things to be learned from it in whole though.

You know that I have been Baptized and had a very spiritual event happen recently but I am not convinced by any means to take the Bible whole heartedly. I do believe in sin and morals that have been shaped by my nurturing but also through what I have experienced. I just want to live up to those beliefs and if I truly fall short of God then God shall know I am only a man with his own convictions.

[geoff]

very well explained. if your seeking truth God will lead you in the right direction. im praying for you brother. and just know that God has never forsaken nor abandoned you, the times you feel alone and neglected is a trial we all face, just keep searching

[quickdodge®]

if your seeking truth God will lead you in the right direction.

You do know that you can do things for yourself, too, right? Later, QD.

[geoff]

i understand that but when you seek faith or spirituality, if thats what you believe in, then who best to go to for direction than the one your seeking after?

[5speed]

You do know that you can do things for yourself, too, right? Later, QD.


i understand that but when you seek faith or spirituality, if thats what you believe in, then who best to go to for direction than the one your seeking after?

Exactly to both. I believe nothing would ever get done if we simply relied on God and never took any action ourselves.

[Got Milk?]

lol at "Bible" that books changes every year.

[JDM onlyy]

lol at "Bible" that books changes every year.

I know its been changed many times, yet Geoff won't accept it. I'm not going to believe what any man writes in a book and calls a "Bible." If this book is so mystical, and spiritual then how come it couldn't survive the times? Man has changed it so many times, but I recall my Social Studies teacher in 7th grade telling me that the Quran has not been altered since the day it has been written. I'm not Muslim and I don't belive in Islam, but I'm just saying if you really wanted to belive some words from some old guys, why not listen to their words then?

[Jaimecbr900]

I know its been changed many times, yet Geoff won't accept it. I'm not going to believe what any man writes in a book and calls a "Bible." If this book is so mystical, and spiritual then how come it couldn't survive the times? Man has changed it so many times, but I recall my Social Studies teacher in 7th grade telling me that the Quran has not been altered since the day it has been written. I'm not Muslim and I don't belive in Islam, but I'm just saying if you really wanted to belive some words from some old guys, why not listen to their words then?

Although like my buddy IS300 stated this has been discussed over and over again on here, I always find myself drawn in by the blatant stupidity and ignorance that runs rampant in these discussions.

It's so ironic that most of the "non-believers" who are so quick to always put in their :2cents: in these discussions are always the still wet behind the ears 20 somethings....:rolleyes::lmfao:. I guess they also will believe that what they think today is so uber cool will still make them look cool 20 yrs from now too, huh? :rolleyes:

#1. I'm getting pretty tired of people who haven't a clue what they're talking about, just what they're GOV'T school teacher told them back in 2nd grade or what their older cousin whom they idolize told them while they toked on a big fat joint:rolleyes:, yet they call us stupid for believing something that is 1000 times older than both of them put together and then compounded to the power of 10. Right.....WE are the dumb ones....:rolleyes: The Bible hasn't been "changed". If by translating it to other languages is "change" to you, then you are an idiot.

#2. The Quran may not have been changed, but unless you study it, read it, and believe it in ARABIC......you TOO are "changing" it then, huh? :rolleyes: So I guess that means that all those Muslims going to their Mosques all over the U.S.A. are wrong too, huh? They are some how less "Muslims" to you two???? Gotcha.

#3. It's so funny that all of you go through your entire "higher" learning careers believing all those fine books, works, history, and science much like......ummmmm, let's see......oh yes......people who sit at church on any given sunday. Don't believe it?

Well here you go: A teacher stands up and "teaches" you about a subject which is based on what???? Some book he or she studied when he or she went to her school. That book was written by whom? A real flesh and blood what??? Human, person, homosapien. Right? How do YOU KNOW that the book he or she is teaching you from is right? Did you go and test it yourself? The whole thing? Really? Bullshit. You BELIEVE IT because you WANT TO believe it. Both the parts that you tested and the 99.99999% that you never have nor will. Is there PROOF of every single thing from every text book you've ever studied? Ummm, not no, but HELL NO. Matter of fact, text books are re-written on a yearly basis, especially SCIENCE text books. Why? Because ironically enough they keep proving themselves WRONG constantly. So what YOU thought you "knew" last year, is WRONG this year. So to summarize, you guys hang your hats on a belief system that is ever changing because it proves itself WRONG from year to year as the basis of your beliefs????? Gotcha:goodjob:

Now, dress people better, give them better manners and attitudes, and you have????? What most of us see when we go to church. People who sit down and listen to someone that studied a book that both of them believe to be true to become smarter about a certain subject. Yep, there's a huge difference there, huh? You don't see people running down to their local school and calling everyone there stupid for believing whats written in some "book". Why not? You two are doing the same thing to people who believe the "book" they feel is accurate. The Bible is how old? Your Science book is how old? Yet, YOURS is somehow MORE credit worthy? The same book that told you last year Pluto was a Planet and this year it tells you it's not????? That book is the one you believe whole heartedly? And I'm the stupid one?????? Okie dokie.


I'll tell you what. I challenge either one of you to list out EXACT EXAMPLES of how the Bible has "changed". You both seem to be so eager to use that as your punch line, so I'm going to call you out on it. Put up or shut up time ladies. You say the Bible is, according to you, changing so much that we must be dumb to believe it. I just proved to you how brilliant you are for putting all your life eggs in the text book basket, so now prove to me why I should not put all my faith on the Bible.


-Cue the Jeopardy theme song.-

Time's ticking ladies. Let's see what you got. You wanted a debate? Let's see if you really want one. :goodjob:

[Deke]

I generally try to avoid these kind of threads, but I just kind of wanted to play devil's advocate (pardon any pun you may draw from that) to keep this conversation intelligent.




Now, dress people better, give them better manners and attitudes, and you have????? What most of us see when we go to church. People who sit down and listen to someone that studied a book that both of them believe to be true to become smarter about a certain subject. Yep, there's a huge difference there, huh? You don't see people running down to their local school and calling everyone there stupid for believing whats written in some "book". Why not? You two are doing the same thing to people who believe the "book" they feel is accurate.


I will agree that both religious and non-religious topics alike require a certain amount of faith. However, to imply that those who study science require the same amount of faith as those that study the bible is misguided. Let's take a basic principle of both the bible (Jesus is the son of God) and a basic principle of physics (force) as an example.

A. Force

A professor tells a student that if he pushes the side of a wheel (applies force), the wheel will accelerate in the direction of the force. The student calls bullshit. The professor tells the student to read the text book. The student reads it and still calls bullshit. The professor then tells the student, you don't have to believe me, I'll show you. Force is applied, the wheel accelerates.

B. Christ is the son of God

A minister tells a church goer that Jesus Christ is the son of god. The church goer calls bullshit. The minister tells the church goer to read the bible. The church goer still calls bullshit. The minister tells the church goer he must have faith.


I realize this is an incredibly simplistic example. But the matter is, the building blocks of science are things that someone can see and prove for themselves. They don't have to have faith, it occurs right in front of their eyes. With religion even the most simplistic ideas are constructed on faith.

And please don't read into this that I think that makes religion bad/stupid. I greatly respect faith as long as it's not blind.






I'll tell you what. I challenge either one of you to list out EXACT EXAMPLES of how the Bible has "changed". You both seem to be so eager to use that as your punch line, so I'm going to call you out on it. Put up or shut up time ladies. You say the Bible is, according to you, changing so much that we must be dumb to believe it. I just proved to you how brilliant you are for putting all your life eggs in the text book basket, so now prove to me why I should not put all my faith on the Bible.



I don't have the time or desire to quote specifics, but after a quick google search, I found that the word apocrypha refers to passages of the Bible that a given publisher doubts or rejects. The fact that there is such a word certainly leads me to believe that not all Bibles are created equally. And of course the ever popular wikipedia link if you are in fact interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha


Disclaimer: I do not claim to be an expert on this topic by any means. I'm simply someone who likes to have civil, intellectual discussions. If I make people think twice about something or someone makes me think twice, I consider it a success. If anyone resorts to name calling in my direction, I will consider you an unintelligent asshat unworthy of my time or attention

[JDM onlyy]

Although like my buddy IS300 stated this has been discussed over and over again on here, I always find myself drawn in by the blatant stupidity and ignorance that runs rampant in these discussions.

It's so ironic that most of the "non-believers" who are so quick to always put in their :2cents: in these discussions are always the still wet behind the ears 20 somethings....:rolleyes::lmfao:. I guess they also will believe that what they think today is so uber cool will still make them look cool 20 yrs from now too, huh? :rolleyes:

#1. I'm getting pretty tired of people who haven't a clue what they're talking about, just what they're GOV'T school teacher told them back in 2nd grade or what their older cousin whom they idolize told them while they toked on a big fat joint:rolleyes:, yet they call us stupid for believing something that is 1000 times older than both of them put together and then compounded to the power of 10. Right.....WE are the dumb ones....:rolleyes: The Bible hasn't been "changed". If by translating it to other languages is "change" to you, then you are an idiot.

#2. The Quran may not have been changed, but unless you study it, read it, and believe it in ARABIC......you TOO are "changing" it then, huh? :rolleyes: So I guess that means that all those Muslims going to their Mosques all over the U.S.A. are wrong too, huh? They are some how less "Muslims" to you two???? Gotcha.

#3. It's so funny that all of you go through your entire "higher" learning careers believing all those fine books, works, history, and science much like......ummmmm, let's see......oh yes......people who sit at church on any given sunday. Don't believe it?

Well here you go: A teacher stands up and "teaches" you about a subject which is based on what???? Some book he or she studied when he or she went to her school. That book was written by whom? A real flesh and blood what??? Human, person, homosapien. Right? How do YOU KNOW that the book he or she is teaching you from is right? Did you go and test it yourself? The whole thing? Really? Bullshit. You BELIEVE IT because you WANT TO believe it. Both the parts that you tested and the 99.99999% that you never have nor will. Is there PROOF of every single thing from every text book you've ever studied? Ummm, not no, but HELL NO. Matter of fact, text books are re-written on a yearly basis, especially SCIENCE text books. Why? Because ironically enough they keep proving themselves WRONG constantly. So what YOU thought you "knew" last year, is WRONG this year. So to summarize, you guys hang your hats on a belief system that is ever changing because it proves itself WRONG from year to year as the basis of your beliefs????? Gotcha:goodjob:

Now, dress people better, give them better manners and attitudes, and you have????? What most of us see when we go to church. People who sit down and listen to someone that studied a book that both of them believe to be true to become smarter about a certain subject. Yep, there's a huge difference there, huh? You don't see people running down to their local school and calling everyone there stupid for believing whats written in some "book". Why not? You two are doing the same thing to people who believe the "book" they feel is accurate. The Bible is how old? Your Science book is how old? Yet, YOURS is somehow MORE credit worthy? The same book that told you last year Pluto was a Planet and this year it tells you it's not????? That book is the one you believe whole heartedly? And I'm the stupid one?????? Okie dokie.


I'll tell you what. I challenge either one of you to list out EXACT EXAMPLES of how the Bible has "changed". You both seem to be so eager to use that as your punch line, so I'm going to call you out on it. Put up or shut up time ladies. You say the Bible is, according to you, changing so much that we must be dumb to believe it. I just proved to you how brilliant you are for putting all your life eggs in the text book basket, so now prove to me why I should not put all my faith on the Bible.


-Cue the Jeopardy theme song.-

Time's ticking ladies. Let's see what you got. You wanted a debate? Let's see if you really want one. :goodjob:

I never once called someone stupid. I never said you were dumb for believing in the Bible. I never said don't do it. I don't know where all this hostility came from. I never "put all my life eggs in the text book basket" and I never said you shouldn't put all your faith in the Bible. I just said I wouldn't and I stated why I wouldn't.

I'm not even Christian, but I believe in God. I just don't believe following a book is the "way to God". We can say each side is not credible so why bother? Nothing in life is foolproof.

So only people who go to church are the ones who have manners, a good attitude and dress well? That is kind of biased don't you think? I know there a lot of people who don't believe in anything, but they aren't bad people.

No offense, but you have this problem where you talk to people like you're so much better than them.

[StreetHazard]

I accept

[StreetHazard]

No offense, but you have this problem where you talk to people like you're so much better than them.


X2 it seems to be a growing trend with religious types.






I'll tell you what. I challenge either one of you to list out EXACT EXAMPLES of how the Bible has "changed". You both seem to be so eager to use that as your punch line, so I'm going to call you out on it. Put up or shut up time ladies. You say the Bible is, according to you, changing so much that we must be dumb to believe it. I just proved to you how brilliant you are for putting all your life eggs in the text book basket, so now prove to me why I should not put all my faith on the Bible.


-Cue the Jeopardy theme song.-

Time's ticking ladies. Let's see what you got. You wanted a debate? Let's see if you really want one. :goodjob:


I really just glanced over and ignored whatever else you wrote as being completely irrelevant...But I will address this since you are so eager.

Many fundamentalist Christians believe the Bible is inerrant or infallible, but for those that do not there is a branch of philology or bibliography called "Textual Criticism" or "Higher Criticism".

Textual criticism is concerned with the identification and removal of errors from texts and manuscripts. Ancient manuscripts often have errors or alterations made by scribes, who copied the manuscripts by hand. The textual critic seeks to determine the original text of a document or a collection of documents, which the critic believes to come as close as possible to a lost original.

From the scholarly point of view, the differences in various Biblical manuscripts are well-documented. A few well-known variants include:


John 7:53-John 8:1-11, traditionally known as the pericope adulterae, is not contained in the earliest and best manuscripts and was almost certainly not an original part of the Gospel of John. Among modern commentators and textual critics, it is a foregone conclusion that the section is not original but represents a later addition to the text of the Gospel. Critical text scholar Bruce Metzger summarizes: "The evidence for the non-Johannine origin of the pericope of the adulteress is overwhelming."

Mark 16:9-20 does not exist in the earliest and best manuscripts. Virtually all scholars believe it was a later addition, added by scribes who felt the original ending was unsatisfactory.

1 John 5:7-8 — "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" — the infamous Comma Johanneum, is accepted as a later insertion by virtually every scholar. It is most interesting that it is the only explicit reference to the Trinity in the New Testament, yet it is not part of the original epistle, but dates from probably the fourth century.

Matt. 5:22 The phrase "without a cause" appears in some early manuscripts and some writings of early church fathers, but this phrase does not appear in the earliest manuscript (Papyrus 67 dated AD 125-150) nor in the earliest church father writing (Justin dated about 165 AD) of Matthew 5:22. Virtually all scholars believe that this phrase was added by the third century. (It is notable that this phrase is in the King James Bible but it is not in the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith Translation of Matthew 5:22.)

John 1:18 is notoriously difficult because various manuscripts read either monogenes theos ("the only God") or ho monogenes huios("the only son").

Heb. 1:3 reads "reveals (phaneron) all things" in the Codex Vaticanus, while most manuscripts read "sustains (pheron) all things". This is particularly interesting because there's a scribe's marginal note in the CV that reads "Fool and knave, leave the old reading, don't change it!", indicating contention over an intentional change in the passage.


I am just stating a few examples, but a simple google search will yield alot more on this subject...Personally I don't give a shit if god himself wrote the Bible, or if you think the work is infallible or not. It is only worth as much as the paper it is printed on, and the blood that has been spilled in his name.

[bodhi]

goddamnit!!!!! i was muliquoting jaime's wall of text,
and accidentally clicked on a fucking ebay auction icon as i was switching through my tabs, and everything went to shit!!!

ahhhh i had spent close to 40 fucking mins on that shit too, and had tons of great points!!!
now i ain't doing that shit so fuck it

i could debate your post jaime, i just don't have the desire to post and rethink everything again. imma stick with my witty and clever remarks instead of getting all educational

perhaps someone who has enough time to "repeat themselves over, and over again" will challenge you to this duel


here is something i had in my previous post though,
that i thought was pretty funny... especially since you were talking about toking up to fat blunts


http://i48.tinypic.com/2eumsrm.jpg


some of you believers might be toking up without even knowning it


how ironic that you tried to make fun of ppl who smoke,
when the bible and religion and general is nothing but a huge metaphor.. hallucinations and primitive knowledge with simple morals that any normal human being would gain on its own - through life experiences,

but somehow 2k years ago some old man with a white beard who pisses rainbows and shits unicorns, decided to make it easy on his children and created a book, to help guide our worthless species through life's difficult tasks.

[Jaimecbr900]

I will agree that both religious and non-religious topics alike require a certain amount of faith. However, to imply that those who study science require the same amount of faith as those that study the bible is misguided. Let's take a basic principle of both the bible (Jesus is the son of God) and a basic principle of physics (force) as an example.

A. Force

A professor tells a student that if he pushes the side of a wheel (applies force), the wheel will accelerate in the direction of the force. The student calls bullshit. The professor tells the student to read the text book. The student reads it and still calls bullshit. The professor then tells the student, you don't have to believe me, I'll show you. Force is applied, the wheel accelerates.

B. Christ is the son of God

A minister tells a church goer that Jesus Christ is the son of god. The church goer calls bullshit. The minister tells the church goer to read the bible. The church goer still calls bullshit. The minister tells the church goer he must have faith.


I realize this is an incredibly simplistic example. But the matter is, the building blocks of science are things that someone can see and prove for themselves. They don't have to have faith, it occurs right in front of their eyes. With religion even the most simplistic ideas are constructed on faith.

Not only is it a very simplistic example, but it compares apples to airplanes.

Was it not "scholars" that at one point SWORE the earth was flat? How flat is it really? THAT is my point. Each and every one of those people that try and argue this never ending debate base their "beliefs" or lack thereof on "PROOF", i.e. Science, common sense, tangible, etc. Welllll, the "scholars" of yesteryear justified their "knowledge" 50 ways to Sunday and even wrote it down on books of that era. It was taught in schools, common knowledge, and as far as they knew tangible as well since sailors would often dissapear so the theory of "falling off the edge of the earth" held water in their eyes. Right or wrong? Wasn't it just yesterday that we thought a computer had to be monochrome and microprocessors were science fiction?

Well, my point is that it is ironic that I want to put my FAITH, which by definition requires no tangibility from my end, on a book that not only has been around far longer than the "earth is flat" scientologists, but when those that support the idea that I'm crazy and stupid use a BOOK chock full of inaccuracies and unproven theories that next year will be retracted or corrected to "prove" I'm wrong.....they are suddenly automatically right because they read it....in a tangible book.....:rolleyes: Get it? Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.

My example was also simplistic but much like the Bible carries the basic message correctly. Proponents of the idea that if it's not logical or tangible or "can be proven w/o a doubt right this very second when I say so" then it must absolutely positively be WRONG is ironic because they use information out of BOOKS that are force fed to them by HUMANS whom we all know never make any mistakes at all. Kinda like......well, the pot calling the kettle black......AGAIN. ;)

[Jaimecbr900]

I never once called someone stupid. I never said you were dumb for believing in the Bible. I never said don't do it. I don't know where all this hostility came from. I never "put all my life eggs in the text book basket" and I never said you shouldn't put all your faith in the Bible. I just said I wouldn't and I stated why I wouldn't.

Ok, let's not be passive aggressive now.

You opened a thread in the Religion section which was designed to argue your belief. Don't say now that was not your intention.


I'm not even Christian, but I believe in God. I just don't believe following a book is the "way to God". We can say each side is not credible so why bother? Nothing in life is foolproof.

How do you know about a "God" w/o some sort of Bible as resource?


So only people who go to church are the ones who have manners, a good attitude and dress well? That is kind of biased don't you think? I know there a lot of people who don't believe in anything, but they aren't bad people.

You obviously missed my sarcasm and the overall point. See my previous reply right above this one. I explained it again.

Let me ask you something: If someone says that the sky is blue, and someone else says the sky is gray.......does that change the FACT that the SKY EXISTS????? So if a Bible designed to be easier to read for CHILDREN says something in a more simplistic way or clearer way......does that CHANGE the message? Is that what you guys are trying to imply? That because it's IMPOSSIBLE to translate original Hebrew writings into modern day English that somehow the MESSAGE is lost in the translation? Explain how. Remember: Sky is blue or sky is gray doesn't change that the sky is there, just you say tomato and I say tomatoe.


No offense, but you have this problem where you talk to people like you're so much better than them.

Again, tomato and tomatoes. You are entitled to think whatever you want, much like I am. I don't candy coat things. If you want to take that as harsh, then so be it.

What angers me is this: How many times did or do your parents tell you something that later turns out to be soooooo true? Quite often I'd bet. When you, me, and everyone on this planet were young we all thought we had ALL the answers to every question. We were invincible, unbreakable, and omnipotent. Atleast I thought I was. I knew it all. Well, guess what? We didn't. Not by far. As each of us grow up, we clearly see how naive and short sighted we really were back then.

So when I see a very young person falling back on their ass "knowing" that they have the world figured out at 20.......I laugh and I call them out. It is what it is. Reality bites sometimes. It sucks. I know. But that's life.

[Jaimecbr900]

I really just glanced over and ignored whatever else you wrote as being completely irrelevant...But I will address this since you are so eager.

Many fundamentalist Christians believe the Bible is inerrant or infallible, but for those that do not there is a branch of philology or bibliography called "Textual Criticism" or "Higher Criticism".

Textual criticism is concerned with the identification and removal of errors from texts and manuscripts. Ancient manuscripts often have errors or alterations made by scribes, who copied the manuscripts by hand. The textual critic seeks to determine the original text of a document or a collection of documents, which the critic believes to come as close as possible to a lost original.

From the scholarly point of view, the differences in various Biblical manuscripts are well-documented. A few well-known variants include:


John 7:53-John 8:1-11, traditionally known as the pericope adulterae, is not contained in the earliest and best manuscripts and was almost certainly not an original part of the Gospel of John. Among modern commentators and textual critics, it is a foregone conclusion that the section is not original but represents a later addition to the text of the Gospel. Critical text scholar Bruce Metzger summarizes: "The evidence for the non-Johannine origin of the pericope of the adulteress is overwhelming."

Mark 16:9-20 does not exist in the earliest and best manuscripts. Virtually all scholars believe it was a later addition, added by scribes who felt the original ending was unsatisfactory.

1 John 5:7-8 — "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" — the infamous Comma Johanneum, is accepted as a later insertion by virtually every scholar. It is most interesting that it is the only explicit reference to the Trinity in the New Testament, yet it is not part of the original epistle, but dates from probably the fourth century.

Matt. 5:22 The phrase "without a cause" appears in some early manuscripts and some writings of early church fathers, but this phrase does not appear in the earliest manuscript (Papyrus 67 dated AD 125-150) nor in the earliest church father writing (Justin dated about 165 AD) of Matthew 5:22. Virtually all scholars believe that this phrase was added by the third century. (It is notable that this phrase is in the King James Bible but it is not in the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith Translation of Matthew 5:22.)

John 1:18 is notoriously difficult because various manuscripts read either monogenes theos ("the only God") or ho monogenes huios("the only son").

Heb. 1:3 reads "reveals (phaneron) all things" in the Codex Vaticanus, while most manuscripts read "sustains (pheron) all things". This is particularly interesting because there's a scribe's marginal note in the CV that reads "Fool and knave, leave the old reading, don't change it!", indicating contention over an intentional change in the passage.


I am just stating a few examples, but a simple google search will yield alot more on this subject...Personally I don't give a shit if god himself wrote the Bible, or if you think the work is infallible or not. It is only worth as much as the paper it is printed on, and the blood that has been spilled in his name.


Much like you supposedly did, yet addressed my entire post:rolleyes:, I skimmed over your "googled" content.

That's awesome that you can "google it". I guess the irony of you buying what you find on the net hook, line, and sinker is lost in translation to you, huh? :lmfao:We all know that everything on the net is 100% true.....:lmfao:......just pointing out how YOU too put so much FAITH on things that you find on the net, yet you make fun of people who put FAITH on something else.......:goodjob: Pots and kettles again.

Ok, from what I skimmed through on your post it seems that you are grasping at straws. Know why? Because my main question still persists:

Here it is......


Pay attention........



Think about it before you answer..........


Ready?...........


Sure?............


Ok............


Here we go........






HOW DOES CHANGING A FEW WORDS AROUND TO MAKE IT LEGIBLE IN YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE CHANGETHE OVERALL MESSAGE OR MEANING?

Should I give you the gray and blue sky example again? :rolleyes:

[geoff]

i like you jaime lol. you have made some really good points. i would like to add this, the bible has been translated into over 160 languages but has kept the same message of one God, one faith, one baptism, one way. the koran? i dont even think its allowed for them to translate it. the biblical texts and the idea of this God Jehova has been around for THOUSANDS of years, never once has God changed His message, meaning, translation, ect....He has been the same always. it brings me up to a scripture, the bible says that heaven and earth shall pass away but His words shall not.....just to go along with jaime's statement about ever changing science text books.

[JDM onlyy]

Ok, let's not be passive aggressive now.

You opened a thread in the Religion section which was designed to argue your belief. Don't say now that was not your intention.



How do you know about a "God" w/o some sort of Bible as resource?



You obviously missed my sarcasm and the overall point. See my previous reply right above this one. I explained it again.

Let me ask you something: If someone says that the sky is blue, and someone else says the sky is gray.......does that change the FACT that the SKY EXISTS????? So if a Bible designed to be easier to read for CHILDREN says something in a more simplistic way or clearer way......does that CHANGE the message? Is that what you guys are trying to imply? That because it's IMPOSSIBLE to translate original Hebrew writings into modern day English that somehow the MESSAGE is lost in the translation? Explain how. Remember: Sky is blue or sky is gray doesn't change that the sky is there, just you say tomato and I say tomatoe.



Again, tomato and tomatoes. You are entitled to think whatever you want, much like I am. I don't candy coat things. If you want to take that as harsh, then so be it.

What angers me is this: How many times did or do your parents tell you something that later turns out to be soooooo true? Quite often I'd bet. When you, me, and everyone on this planet were young we all thought we had ALL the answers to every question. We were invincible, unbreakable, and omnipotent. Atleast I thought I was. I knew it all. Well, guess what? We didn't. Not by far. As each of us grow up, we clearly see how naive and short sighted we really were back then.

So when I see a very young person falling back on their ass "knowing" that they have the world figured out at 20.......I laugh and I call them out. It is what it is. Reality bites sometimes. It sucks. I know. But that's life.

I did open this thread to start a discussion/debate, not to demean or call anyone stupid. You obviously must've interpreted that the wrong.

FYI, I was baptized in a baptist church. I never said I knew everything in the world.

When the hell did I say I knew everything in the world?

How the hell is my age relevant to this debate?

I have no problem with people being harsh, I'm harsh myself, but you speak to me because of my "age" like I don't know anything. How the hell do you know what I know and don't know? You don't know me. So don't act like you do.

With that being said, I'm done with this thread because its already starting to escalate to a point where I never wanted it to be because someone took something personally.

[geoff]

you may not mean it to but just like some of you think we as christians think we are better than you, we take it offesively when you as non christians, atheists, ect... sit there and tell us that our faith is based on words that are wrong or written by men. i believe that i am correct when i say that jaime and myself have a personal relationship with the Lord and until you seek the same thing you really dont know anything when it comes to faith

[JDM onlyy]

you may not mean it to but just like some of you think we as christians think we are better than you, we take it offesively when you as non christians, atheists, ect... sit there and tell us that our faith is based on words that are wrong or written by men. i believe that i am correct when i say that jaime and myself have a personal relationship with the Lord and until you seek the same thing you really dont know anything when it comes to faith

Once again with the acting like you people know me. I do have faith, just might not be in the same things you have faith in. How do you know I don't have faith in another religion?

You guys have to stop assuming things and acting like you guys know everything...seriously.

[SPOOLIN]

lol

IA: The Religion Slaughter House.

[Deke]

Not only is it a very simplistic example, but it compares apples to airplanes.

Was it not "scholars" that at one point SWORE the earth was flat? How flat is it really? THAT is my point. Each and every one of those people that try and argue this never ending debate base their "beliefs" or lack thereof on "PROOF", i.e. Science, common sense, tangible, etc. Welllll, the "scholars" of yesteryear justified their "knowledge" 50 ways to Sunday and even wrote it down on books of that era. It was taught in schools, common knowledge, and as far as they knew tangible as well since sailors would often dissapear so the theory of "falling off the edge of the earth" held water in their eyes. Right or wrong? Wasn't it just yesterday that we thought a computer had to be monochrome and microprocessors were science fiction?

Well, my point is that it is ironic that I want to put my FAITH, which by definition requires no tangibility from my end, on a book that not only has been around far longer than the "earth is flat" scientologists, but when those that support the idea that I'm crazy and stupid use a BOOK chock full of inaccuracies and unproven theories that next year will be retracted or corrected to "prove" I'm wrong.....they are suddenly automatically right because they read it....in a tangible book.....:rolleyes: Get it? Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.

My example was also simplistic but much like the Bible carries the basic message correctly. Proponents of the idea that if it's not logical or tangible or "can be proven w/o a doubt right this very second when I say so" then it must absolutely positively be WRONG is ironic because they use information out of BOOKS that are force fed to them by HUMANS whom we all know never make any mistakes at all. Kinda like......well, the pot calling the kettle black......AGAIN. ;)

My point is exactly this:


y...jaime and myself have a personal relationship with the Lord and until you seek the same thing you really dont know anything when it comes to faith

With religion, one has to have faith to have faith (as weird as that may sound). With science one can use their senses/scientific method and have faith.

Now there are definitely scientific theories that can/have been proven wrong. The difference is science strives for constant improvement. In science you can prove something is wrong even if you believe in your heart of hearts that it is fact. With religion it is impossible to prove anything in this existence. You simply have to have faith that it is the truth, because no one can ever prove it wrong or right.

Now if you want to get into History textbooks, I can absolutely agree. Whoever is in power writes the history.



Regardless of anyone's opinion, the content of this discussion has an obvious problem (much like any religious debate). Anyone that does not believe in the Bible, believes that it was written by man, and therefore cannot be trusted. Anyone that does believe in the Bible, believes it is the direct word of God, and an all-powerful being would not allow his word to become corrupt.

Bottom line: to believe in the Bible you have to believe in the content of the Bible. Therefore, anyone that doesn't think the Bible is credible, will NEVER think the bible is credible. Much like someone who does believe in the Bible's credibility, will ALWAYS believe in the Bible's credibility.

And with that, I've pretty much talked myself out of any further participation in this thread. It's been fun gentlemen. :cheers:

[Jaimecbr900]

My point is exactly this:



With religion, one has to have faith to have faith (as weird as that may sound). With science one can use their senses/scientific method and have faith.

Now there are definitely scientific theories that can/have been proven wrong. The difference is science strives for constant improvement. In science you can prove something is wrong even if you believe in your heart of hearts that it is fact. With religion it is impossible to prove anything in this existence. You simply have to have faith that it is the truth, because no one can ever prove it wrong or right.

Now if you want to get into History textbooks, I can absolutely agree. Whoever is in power writes the history.



Regardless of anyone's opinion, the content of this discussion has an obvious problem (much like any religious debate). Anyone that does not believe in the Bible, believes that it was written by man, and therefore cannot be trusted. Anyone that does believe in the Bible, believes it is the direct word of God, and an all-powerful being would not allow his word to become corrupt.

Bottom line: to believe in the Bible you have to believe in the content of the Bible. Therefore, anyone that doesn't think the Bible is credible, will NEVER think the bible is credible. Much like someone who does believe in the Bible's credibility, will ALWAYS believe in the Bible's credibility.

And with that, I've pretty much talked myself out of any further participation in this thread. It's been fun gentlemen. :cheers:

Kudos for making reasonable sense and open to both points of views. :goodjob:

I too am done with this thread. I tried to be very clear, yet the OP still thinks that somehow I'm talking down my nose at people because I stick to my stance and rebut points directly. I seem to pounce on people when they step all over their own tongues. Maybe I should've been a trial lawyer or something. Whatever. :rolleyes:

[BallerDave04]

If you have read the Bible, which most people haven't. You would know that 85% of the prophecies written in there have come true and can be proven with historical references. The other 15% are to come in the near future. So, God has been correct 100% of the time so far. I don't need prove to have faith, but that seems to be prove enough for me.

[BallerDave04]

The only accurate way to interpret any version of the Bible is to translate it back to the original Hebrew and Greek. The English versions do not fully portrait what the author of the letters and books were trying to express. When you seek, you will find.

[StreetHazard]

Well why don't all of you believers just sit down and have a little online Bible study?

The accuracy of the words itself seems to be vastly more important to a believer than to someone that does not really care at all what is written inside the book, or is not.

In my case it falls inside the latter...For me the entire concept and guidelines set forth in book can all be described as.

"Thou shalt not"

have any fun whatsoever, it's entire belief of "Original Sin" and human accountability is ridiculous and there is no justification for it. The bible is demanding reparations of humanity that is has in no means, ever deserved.

You guys can argue the accuracy of the Bible itself all you want, and I don't give a shit if Jesus wrote it himself, in his own blood. It does not negate it's policy of mental slavery it has wielded over it's adherents since it's inception, it's embracing of bigotry and violence to secure itself into the minds of millions across the globe, not giving a god damn if they wanted to believe or not, convincing them of eternal torments in the afterlife, and like any proper dictatorship through threats and tactics of fear and violence "Do as I say or you will be punished". Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

I really do not care if your god is real or not. I will bow down to no one. And I refuse to do anything under threats of damnation. If heaven will be filled with born-again Christians and Evangelicals, than that is the last place I would want to be. A place that boring...a place full of that much sophistry, hate, douchbaggery, ignorance, biggotry and violence is the last place I would want to spend eternity. But very well fits my definition of a personal hell.

[geoff]

from your mouth to God's ears

[StreetHazard]

from your mouth to God's ears

and why should I care what "god" hears?

If he does not like it, I suppose I will roast inside a fiery pit in Hades. proving the wrathful, jealous, insecure nature of your flawed cowardly god. So cowardly that he needs to threaten those that attempt to disobey or discredit his divine words, instead of proving them wrong and without merit, along with the rest of his flock so filled with righteous indignation.

Abrahamic religion had it's time, it's hay-day has come and passed like egyptian sun-worship and greek mythology. There will be a time eventually when your holy bible and the Koran will be placed on people's book shelf next to the "Illiad" and the works of Shakespear. It will not be treated as anything more than just a book.

[StreetHazard]

double post

[geoff]

burning in hell after judgement day is not the only way people can be punished....your use very bold words my friend. and the abrahamic religions with not fade away. they have been going strong for thousands of years, besides, you wont have to wait to much longer before Jesus returns and you will see beyond a shadow of a doubt how wrong you are.

[Jaimecbr900]

Well why don't all of you believers just sit down and have a little online Bible study?

The accuracy of the words itself seems to be vastly more important to a believer than to someone that does not really care at all what is written inside the book, or is not.

In my case it falls inside the latter...For me the entire concept and guidelines set forth in book can all be described as.

"Thou shalt not"

have any fun whatsoever, it's entire belief of "Original Sin" and human accountability is ridiculous and there is no justification for it. The bible is demanding reparations of humanity that is has in no means, ever deserved.

You guys can argue the accuracy of the Bible itself all you want, and I don't give a shit if Jesus wrote it himself, in his own blood. It does not negate it's policy of mental slavery it has wielded over it's adherents since it's inception, it's embracing of bigotry and violence to secure itself into the minds of millions across the globe, not giving a god damn if they wanted to believe or not, convincing them of eternal torments in the afterlife, and like any proper dictatorship through threats and tactics of fear and violence "Do as I say or you will be punished". Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

I really do not care if your god is real or not. I will bow down to no one. And I refuse to do anything under threats of damnation. If heaven will be filled with born-again Christians and Evangelicals, than that is the last place I would want to be. A place that boring...a place full of that much sophistry, hate, douchbaggery, ignorance, biggotry and violence is the last place I would want to spend eternity. But very well fits my definition of a personal hell.

I see you avoided my question like fat girl does diets. :rolleyes:

So basically what you're saying is that no matter what "proof" or logical rebuttal you get handed to you on a silver platter that totally shatters your illogical views you will continue to believe what you want to believe. Hmmmm, Christians are the only closed minded people around here, huh? :rolleyes:

Oh, BTW......how's that all knowing Science working for ya now that they found fossils which totally screw the pooch on your super uber smart scientist's timeline of earth? Guess that's a great reliable thing to hang your hat on, huh? What's next? Scientists discover that the earth is really flat? :rolleyes: Hmmmmmm, that crazy unreliable Bible of mine STILL says the same thing today as it did yesterday even though the word "the" got omitted on a couple of them. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Whatever dude. You're just an instigator. You want to get under people's skin for your own jollies in all these discussions.

[StreetHazard]

I see you avoided my question like fat girl does diets. :rolleyes:

So basically what you're saying is that no matter what "proof" or logical rebuttal you get handed to you on a silver platter that totally shatters your illogical views you will continue to believe what you want to believe. Hmmmm, Christians are the only closed minded people around here, huh? :rolleyes:

Oh, BTW......how's that all knowing Science working for ya now that they found fossils which totally screw the pooch on your super uber smart scientist's timeline of earth? Guess that's a great reliable thing to hang your hat on, huh? What's next? Scientists discover that the earth is really flat? :rolleyes: Hmmmmmm, that crazy unreliable Bible of mine STILL says the same thing today as it did yesterday even though the word "the" got omitted on a couple of them. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Whatever dude. You're just an instigator. You want to get under people's skin for your own jollies in all these discussions.

I think there are more important questions to ask...

Like why are you such a fucking asshole?

Or, what the fuck is your problem?

Or what the fuck are you try to prove OR convince any us of?

Are you asking me personally what I think of your original question? Or what do I think about "new fossils". Your questions seem to be sporadic.

The answer to all of them is "I could give a fuck less". You cannot convince me the truth of your Christ is much as I can convince you out of it. And I am well past these typical atheistic debates of black holes, big bangs, dinosaurs, evolutionary synthesis and the such. You really seem to be over complicating your opinion of my position in the matter.

But since you are so rational and very logical you can accept an eye of Sauron watching over and controlling your every move. And cannot even consider the non-existence of such. And I personally do not give a shit what anyone thinks of me personally, or ANY of my views and I don't care what you do with yourself as long as you do not interfere with any aspect of my life. And if my words piss anyone off then they should probably get out into the world more and stop being such a pussy.

I really don't give a shit what you believe Jamie, it's whatever you want to convince yourself of.

[Jaimecbr900]

I think there are more important questions to ask...

So what you're saying is that either, A: YOU can't answer the question because you know I'm right and it would make you look foolish, or B: YOU won't answer the question because you know that the answer would make you look foolish? Got it. :goodjob:


Like why are you such a fucking asshole?

Ahhhh, so obviously I've hit a fragile nerve somewhere with you? I see. Well, you have 2 choices in this matter: 1. Get over it, or 2. Get over it. Pick one. Doesn't matter to me which one.

BTW, if you want to elevate this to a personal level......I have ZERO problems with doing that Mr. Ingram. Just be aware that you may need to both pack a lunch and realize that I'm not too big on the idea of "turning the other cheek". Remember that. :goodjob:


Or, what the fuck is your problem?

Seems you're the one with the "problem" here. So answer yourself the question if you're that concerned about it. :goodjob:


Or what the fuck are you try to prove OR convince any us of?

First, it's "trying" not "try". :rolleyes:

Second, I honestly and sincerely don't have any concern if YOU or anyone else believes what I believe. Much like I could care less if your car gets repo'd or not since I don't get to drive it nor pay for it. I can, however, tell you, when asked, that it sucks.....or it's slow....or it's a girly car.....right? Well that's all I'm doing here. When the question(s) are asked, I merely give out the information that I think is right. IF, in the analogy, you STILL get your car repo'd just like I told you may happen if you don't pay for it, then just WHO is at fault? Me or you? So why would I be the bad guy for warning you instead of looking at yourself for not paying? Think about that one for a little bit and let me know. If you don't get the correlation of my analogy, I'll be happy to dummy it down for you further. :goodjob:


Are you asking me personally what I think of your original question? Or what do I think about "new fossils". Your questions seem to be sporadic.

Glad you can spell "sporadic", although you ate a question mark. :goodjob:

I asked a very simple question which you obviously are refusing to answer. The question was, "How does the overall message CHANGE if you merely translate it into a different language?". The fossils statement was referring to the recent finding of fossilized foot prints which totally negate previously preached "facts" about the earth's timeline, which goes to further PROVE my stance that "Science" (which most of you Atheists use to rebuke the existance of a "God") is not only fallible but also quite often corrects itself.

So maybe you thought I was sporadic, but I knew quite well exactly where I was going with my statements. Sorry to have shot down yet another one of your theories. :rolleyes::goodjob:


The answer to all of them is "I could give a fuck less". You cannot convince me the truth of your Christ is much as I can convince you out of it. And I am well past these typical atheistic debates of black holes, big bangs, dinosaurs, evolutionary synthesis and the such. You really seem to be over complicating your opinion of my position in the matter.

On the contrary, I totally see your simplistic stance. You don't care what anyone says. You don't care how much common sense it makes. You don't care to use logic. You don't care to take the time to even remotely fathom that there just may be some small chance that someone else may be on to something. Ohhhhh, I got you. No worries. You're actually "a dime a dozen", so don't feel too lonely. This would explain why we have the world we live in and the problems we have.....because there are quite a few people out there that think exactly like you do. :goodjob:


But since you are so rational and very logical you can accept an eye of Sauron watching over and controlling your every move. And cannot even consider the non-existence of such. And I personally do not give a shit what anyone thinks of me personally, or ANY of my views and I don't care what you do with yourself as long as you do not interfere with any aspect of my life. And if my words piss anyone off then they should probably get out into the world more and stop being such a pussy.

If you want to believe that my God is a mythical character, that is totally your perrogative. Again, I don't drive your car nor pay for it, so when it gets repo'd.......I certainly won't shed a single tear. :goodjob:


I really don't give a shit what you believe Jamie, it's whatever you want to convince yourself of.

Well, and that is where we can gladly leave it, you and I. Agree to dissagree. You go your way, and I go mine.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. What do I have to lose if I'm wrong? Nothing, even according to you and the rest of the non-believers, right? I mean IF there really is no God at all then even according to you there will be no "punishment" for that once I die, right? Unless you're a Devil worshiper, there is no "punishment" for us believers, right? So exactly what do I have to lose? IF I'm wrong, like you want everyone to believe, it's a win-win situation for me. I merely spent my life in the equivalent of buying insurance just in case YOU were wrong, right? So just WHO is the smart one then? Me for buying insurance, or YOU for not having any when you need it???? Again, think about that little tid bit and get back to me on it. :goodjob:

Have a nice day. :goodjob:

[bodhi]

omgz jaime is on a rampage!! schoolin' fools
and no one can put him in his place... i thought this section had super intellectuals that could easily pull his nuts off and shove him down his throat

guess i was wrong.. : (

[StreetHazard]

omgz jaime is on a rampage!! schoolin' fools
and no one can put him in his place... i thought this section had super intellectuals that could easily pull his nuts off and shove him down his throat

guess i was wrong.. : (

I (almost) want to take a stab at it, I just don't care enough...hopefully someone else can pick up the slack.

[ueyedgr8tness]

WOW i thought we were done with these threads?


I like to keep it simple,u need to believe in something because we all go there some how right?wEll lets see my options.

science=Big bang theory
I don't believe athiest and science because there is way to much error in it 24/7 some say we came from monkey's others say boom! were here lol!

Why would i want to read something that some scientist has been wrong about multiple times?

GOD=creator
I love this fact because i can read through the bible and see things come to pass that is mentioned.



U tell me we came from apes.I say ok i am willing to live with that but who made the apes? Better yet if there was a big boom and we all was here, who set off the boom?Some 1 had to do it.I am personally so done with trying to explain how it works because you can't teach some 1 that has no love for the truth,truth.also lets do a little search on a better world if the bible ran it vs science.



Bible=ten commandments if every 1 liked there life after it we would not have a bad world.

science=pretty much what the world is coming to.As the day's get older the world gets worse and we all can agree to that.

I think its a shame that we as americans have to have discussions like this considering the usa was founded on god,and just watch how things have gotten alot worse because they have taken god out of our schools and shoved there science myth down our kids throat.Not to mention look back in the old day's when kids prayed in school before starting the day and pledge alligience to god VS Pledging to the flag and shooting up schools during lunch. WOW! is there any comparison on which 1 u want to believe?The bottom line is the world is a better place with the bible and faith in god vs mans factor in a myth that has errors to the core.

[Starrfire]

omgz jaime is on a rampage!! schoolin' fools
and no one can put him in his place... i thought this section had super intellectuals that could easily pull his nuts off and shove him down his throat

guess i was wrong.. : (


Not unless someone can prove god doesn't exist. The thing either side lacks is proof. Why does it matter why we are here I say? We just are. I make the best of it every day.

If some people want to believe in the boogey man that is their perogative. This country was built on religious freedom, which means you can choose to believe what you want be it a god or lack thereof. Pushing religion to mainstream is difficult to justify since its supposed to be a closed doors thing like the "guide" to Christianity states.

I don't like Religion because they all can't prove anything, just like scientists can't prove the big bang. They all sound stupid to me but I'll find out one day.

And as far as the car thing I'll take my chances with liability insurance and just pay for it myself and take all responsibility.

/thread for me

[Jaimecbr900]

And as far as the car thing I'll take my chances with liability insurance and just pay for it myself and take all responsibility.

/thread for me

Not believing in God is not "liability insurance" it's actually not having any "insurance" at all in my analogy. :goodjob:

[bodhi]

tomorrow i will try to attack some of the "points" jaime has made in this thread (if i have enough time)

those that dont participate are lame doodoo heads


btw the whole insurance analogy is pretty played out
why cant ppl come up with new rebuttals when discussing about religion? ugh, you silly guys....

[StreetHazard]

Not believing in God is not "liability insurance" it's actually not having any "insurance" at all in my analogy. :goodjob:


This analogy just reeks of fear in my opinion...it is also not a fair one because it implies that the concept of god is a real threat. The only insurance I would like to have involving religion, is insurance that will.

Protect my basic civil rights regarding free speech.

Protect my well being and property if I find myself in the cross-fire of a holy war.

Protect myself from spilling blood due to warfare if I choose to relocate to a "holy land"

Insurance that I will not be persecuted because of my sexual orientation or religious views.

Insurance that my female companion will never have to endure the loss of her civil rights.

"they say in war, truth is the first casualty"

Both Muhammad
And Christ would like
to lay
Your body down
To a tune
So wild international
In the desert
Full of bullets
Let your body rot
With my chrome
With my verse
With my body rock


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mKtt7F0rPU

[bu villain]

WOW i thought we were done with these threads?......

I'm speechless. No way to argue with this rock solid logic.

[ueyedgr8tness]

What i love the best about these young kids going on about athiest and science is.I have been all over the country and heard this none since bs about it,and i like to get them in a corner and let them tell you what they really feel:)Athiest act like they don't believe in god but in the back of there mind they no he does exist.U people say show me a miracle that god exist? I say look at urself and thats the miracle of god because how else would we get here.The earth can not just form a human body it is just impossible.The fact that u guy's have no ground to stand on on where u come from gives u no base of truth in the 1st place.Go to isreal for urself and look at all the places that are out of the bible and see if they line up.And untill then just stop making useless threads of stuff that we have been over to many times.

[5speed]

U people say show me a miracle that god exist? I say look at urself and thats the miracle of god

100% Correct. You cant really argue this even with factual science. Then most would ask, "Well how did God come about?" I will forever say that is for God to know and for you to find out...in death. Being in existence from what we know as nothing is part of what makes God. I may not claim any religion or major beliefs but no one can ever convince me there is no God.

[StreetHazard]

What i love the best about these young kids going on about athiest and science is.I have been all over the country and heard this none since bs about it,and i like to get them in a corner and let them tell you what they really feel:)Athiest act like they don't believe in god but in the back of there mind they no he does exist.U people say show me a miracle that god exist? I say look at urself and thats the miracle of god because how else would we get here.The earth can not just form a human body it is just impossible.The fact that u guy's have no ground to stand on on where u come from gives u no base of truth in the 1st place.Go to isreal for urself and look at all the places that are out of the bible and see if they line up.And untill then just stop making useless threads of stuff that we have been over to many times.


This "kid" surpasses you in age by almost a decade. But mostly what I like about Atheism is the lack of guilt for things I know are not wrong in the first place, or not needing the constraints of religious dogma to shape (or skew) my morality. And I like the hours...24-7, I do not turn it on and off when I find it convenient for me, (like if I wanted to fuck a man, or have premarital sex, or abort an unwanted pregnancy..ect..ect). I don't believe in the existence of an anthropomorphic being in any way, shape or form at all. And my philosophy may have even traveled beyond Atheism in the fact that I have simply stopped caring if a god really exists or not. It's not that "deep down" I care...it's deep down I do not care either way. I wouldn't kneel to your god under any condition, not even to save my own skin...in this life, OR in the afterlife as abrahamic religion's view on morality conflicts with my own...I find your gods treatment of human life quite literally inhuman, cruel and sadistic, and his son Jesus Christ's views irrelevant and unrealistic. This view should not be taken as a view other "non-believers" commonly share.

The idea Jamie is putting forth, and what Bodhi has alluded too as a very typical argument, is what is known as Pascal's Wager.

The argument goes like this. Either there is a god or there isn’t. If you believe in God, and God exists, then you win big time and go to Heaven. If you don’t believe in God, and God exists, you lose big time and go to Hell. If there is no god, then you haven’t lost much by believing. So the obvious choice is to believe in God, because it’s simply the best bet.

Pascal’s Wager has several faults. The biggest problem is that it’s not a proof of any god’s existence. It’s just an argument for believing, a method of extorting the masses through fear...believing through fear of punishment is almost the entire concept Christianity is hinged upon.

Pascal’s Wager also depends on the idea that you don’t lose much by believing. This has been false for many who have trusted in their god for help or guidance instead of trusting themselves to accomplish hurdles in their lives. And the obvious current fact that people are fighting, killing and dying for their belief in god in the very streets of your sacred piss hole inside Jerusalem, your celestial shit pile in the sands (stay-up), and throughout the rest of your desert deities stomping grounds in the middle-east. Where the vile black death of abrahamic religion has spread from its walls like an overflowing toilet bowl contaminating and poisoning everything it touches with the foul stink of this phony virtue called "faith".

It is also not taking into consideration alternative religions or philosophies might be right about their beliefs as well.

[5speed]

It’s just an argument for believing, a method of extorting the masses through fear...believing through fear of punishment is almost the entire concept Christianity is hinged upon.

Pascal’s Wager also depends on the idea that you don’t lose much by believing. This has been false for many who have trusted in their god for help or guidance instead of trusting themselves to accomplish hurdles in their lives. And the obvious current fact that people are fighting, killing and dying for their belief in god in the very streets of your sacred piss hole inside Jerusalem, your celestial shit pile in the sands (stay-up), and throughout the rest of your desert deities stomping grounds in the middle-east. Where the vile black death of abrahamic religion has spread from its walls like an overflowing toilet bowl contaminating and poisoning everything it touches with the foul stink of this phony virtue called "faith".

It is also not taking into consideration alternative religions or philosophies might be right about their beliefs as well.

I concur. But if there is in fact a hell,and the the mighty Lucifer, I will have Richard Simmons anal rape him and give him a good hard cockslap.

[StreetHazard]

I concur. But if there is in fact a hell,and the the mighty Lucifer, I will have Richard Simmons anal rape him and give him a good hard cockslap.


If I really had to pick a team, I would probably have go with the big lovable red guy. :goodjob:

[5speed]

If I really had to pick a team, I would probably have go with the big lovable red guy. :goodjob:

lol

[geoff]

you guys laugh and joke but havent taken the time to open your eyes, minds, and hearts to the true spiritual powers in this life. you 5speed have experienced the power of God. how could you joke around?

[JDM onlyy]

This "kid" surpasses you in age by almost a decade.

He's 3 years older than me....

[JDM onlyy]

you guys laugh and joke but havent taken the time to open your eyes, minds, and hearts to the true spiritual powers in this life. you 5speed have experienced the power of God. how could you joke around?

lirl. sounds like your life is a bit dull...

[5speed]

you guys laugh and joke but havent taken the time to open your eyes, minds, and hearts to the true spiritual powers in this life. you 5speed have experienced the power of God. how could you joke around?

Yes I have experienced what I believe to be the spirit of God but dont believe it was strictly through Christianity. People of other many religions whether Abrahamic or not have experienced such things as well. You cant take that away from them or me. What beliefs that go along with that is up to them.

I just believe that if God is what the Bible says he is then it doesnt give God the responsibility for any his flaws. You cant blame everything on the devil that goes wrong. If God is the knows all/ ends all the Bible says he is,then it should accept that he messed up creating beings that he knew would bring horrible things.

[bodhi]

okay, so let me see what i can do to bring some poker chips back to the table of logic

i really don't know where to start;
lemme start off by saying that ppl who believe in god and the bible should be like this jaime guy, and not like geoff lol
who seems like nothing more than a robot whos only purpose is to yell out "GOD IS TRUTH... GOD IS TRUTH... NA-NA-NANA-NAAA-NA" like a crazy, delusional, drooling monkey


oh and stay_up, is just... a moron lol
i have no idea what hes talking about or if his posts even have a point

i doubt it, but his ability to post like a retard is quite impressive
normally ppl try to act smart not the other way around, this, is what makes it interesting haha, stay_up - just stop and remove your lack of knowledge from this section... you cant debate because you're as big of a closeminded dimwit as geoff.

keep the faith strong though; hopefully one day you'll come to realize that youve been wasting your time praying to a person thats not even there... who'll never respond, and who'll never be known as truth to others.

some of you should be forced to have electroshock therapy; to try to recover some brain cells or something...it amazes the shit out of me that in this day and age we still have religious gimptards who try to push their small minded ideas just to prop up their belief structure.


anywayz!!!


lets get on to the only one who makes... sense... kinda...




Not believing in God is not "liability insurance" it's actually not having any "insurance" at all in my analogy


like i said... the whole insurance analogy is pretty outdated and overused
believing that if you have faith in a spiritual being that you will be in the green; that you'll have access to heaven because youve been playing it safe. how does this even make sense??!

do you honestly believe in this?
that its better to be safe than sorry?




The fossils statement was referring to the recent finding of fossilized foot prints which totally negate previously preached "facts" about the earth's timeline, which goes to further PROVE my stance that "Science" (which most of you Atheists use to rebuke the existance of a "God") is not only fallible but also quite often corrects itself.

Sorry to have shot down yet another one of your theories.


you didnt grab your shotgun and shoot his theory down - rather you just picked at it by adding some "roll eyes" and "goodjob" smilies to your posts, and called it a day
not even bothering to go deep into streethaztard's theory


so because a few scientists kinda fucked up on calculating the "approximate" age of a foot print then this means that all of their other facts and accomplishments are bogus?

gimme a break! they taught you about protons and electrons... about planets that are outside of this one... they taught you things about our ecosystem, dna, ect. just because they make SMALL errors - then that makes them useless in a discussion about RELIGION?? religion has FLAWS all over the damn place, but ppl like you still believe the words are true, and that... if you are careful, by giving 10% of your income and getting on your knees for some god that youve never even seen or felt or heard, or... well you get the point


atheists dont all use science in their rebuttals
they use reason and logic

common sense...

something a lot of religions ppl dont have, nor will ever accept into their lives.

now, i agree that science isnt always 100% true; since it deals with so many factors, experiments, tests, and research...but how can someone thats on the religious side actually try to argue a case that has scientific facts to disprove it?

the possibility of an actual GOD exciting is very, very, VERY goddamn low... have you never smoked a "fat blunt" and just look up and ask yourself "how someone can actually believe in such ridiculous things as the bible and the existence of an all knowning god? "I'M GOING TO CREATE MAN AND WOMAN - WITH ORIGINAL SIN, THEN I AM GOING TO IMPREGNATE A VIRGIN WITH MYSELF AS HER CHILD, SO THAT I CAN BE BORN (because a god obviously needs a mortal woman's uterus to be given life hahaha really???) ONCE ALIVE, I WILL KILL MYSELF AS A SACRIFICE TO MYSELF - TO SAVE YOU FROM THE SIN THAT I ORIGINAL CONDEMNED YOU TO.

haha the whole virgin birth is so played out the egyptians used it 10k years before "jesus christ's" era...




On the contrary, I totally see your simplistic stance. You don't care what anyone says. You don't care how much common sense it makes. You don't care to use logic. You don't care to take the time to even remotely fathom that there just may be some small chance that someone else may be on to something. Ohhhhh, I got you. No worries. You're actually "a dime a dozen", so don't feel too lonely. This would explain why we have the world we live in and the problems we have.....because there are quite a few people out there that think exactly like you do


how ironic to use the word logic when backing up religion

its okay to think "hmm there might be something out there that i have no idea of, that might have a strong influence on life and the shit around us..."
being spiritual and a jesus christ cheerleader are two different things. when i tell friends of mine that i am working on my spirituality, or exploring my spirituality, they usually laugh and say to stop smoking so much weed,
but it means debating or thinking about things that extend beyond our day to day existence. things like universal order, the idea of self, what happens after death, what happens before life.

things ya know, that religious ppl think about lulz :rolleyes::rolleyes: hey look, i used two "roll eyes" smilies that are supposed to show sarcasm, too!! we have so much in common huh????

yeah so, in essence spirituality, to me, closesly relates to exploring any metaphysical ideas.
religions are organized ways of explaining metaphysical ideas - unfortunately most religions being organized are static and dogmatic. its a lot easier for a person to look at who they are and say, I have changed my mind about belief xyz...than the Vatican to say...oops we fucked up don't kill the gays.


so tell me jaime, are you a spiritual person or religious whackjob?

the truth and false percentage in religion tends to be higher on the fiction side because its only purpose is well... to make ppl feel better... to make ppl believe that if they pray their guts out that their wishes will come true!!! thats why religion sells!! and ppl keep buy'n

at least to those kinds of people -
people incapable or unwilling to participate in critical thinking always fall face first on the floor of fiction




So just WHO is the smart one then? Me for buying insurance, or YOU for not having any when you need it???? Again, think about that little tid bit and get back to me on it


he is, because he didnt waste his life paying for insurance when he didnt nor will ever need it

there is nothing to think about - zero. nothing.


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

more smilies!!! :crazy:

smilies are for children who get good grades on their report cards...


something that ive learned is that ppl who use hallucinogenic drugs are sometimes far more intelligent than ppl that are not haha, take geoff, streethaztard, stay_up... and me. not sure about them, but lsd is awesome - sometimes lol
its funny when ppl that have a boring and oldschool lifestyle talk down to ppl who do as they wish and questions everything, but still end up making the cheerleaders seem like total morons..


maybe i need to get me a lab coat so i can seem more legit when i make unfounded dumbass claims, right???
either that or a huge gold crown and dress like a fucking king - go door to door annoying ppl, talk about magic and the power of pray haha... desert goat herders living in tents 2000 years ago somehow knew more about the cosmos and biology than modern day scientists


haha religion

i cannot get enough of this subject!! now lemme hit this roach and pass the fuck out!

[bodhi]

btw not sure if you guys have seen these vids,
but here it is... Richard Dawkins Interviews Creationist Wendy Wright http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo

she's such a creepy belly button licking cunt

[JDM onlyy]

btw not sure if you guys have seen these vids,
but here it is... Richard Dawkins Interviews Creationist Wendy Wright http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo

she's such a creepy belly button licking cunt

You know, I just remembered, if people had listen to the church and never contested them, we wouldn't have the modern day medicine and women wouldn't have rights.

I think it was illegal back in medieval times to open up a dead human and there was no science of anatomy then. But look at how that SCIENCE has saved millions of lives.

[geoff]

you know what bohdi i guess i am pretty closeminded, i believe in One God, One Faith, One way, One truth, Holiness, Holy Spirit, and the name of my God is Jesus! nothing on this earth can convince me otherwise. not your shakey scientific facts, not studies, not proof nor evidence because my God goes beyond what our minds can comprehend. i went to church this morning and had a good one on one with my Lord. keep trying buddy cuz i know my Lord is coming back soon and i have faith that i will be ready. one day soon enough all the tangible evidence you need with appear in the clouds. hope you can stand as tall then as you do now

[bodhi]

you know what bohdi i guess i am pretty closeminded, i believe in One God, One Faith, One way, One truth, Holiness, Holy Spirit, and the name of my God is Jesus! nothing on this earth can convince me otherwise. not your shakey scientific facts, not studies, not proof nor evidence because my God goes beyond what our minds can comprehend. i went to church this morning and had a good one on one with my Lord. keep trying buddy cuz i know my Lord is coming back soon and i have faith that i will be ready. one day soon enough all the tangible evidence you need with appear in the clouds. hope you can stand as tall then as you do now
i stand 6 feet tall now, and will be standing 6 feet tall when this "strange cloud phenomenon" occurs...

something that you may think is god, might actually be some extraterrestrial being with god-like powers.
it might have telekinesis and have the ability to talk to you directly through your mind, cure blindness, and heck it might be able to walk on water too


would you drop to your knees with tears in your eyes yelling "oh lawd - cum inside me please!!!" haha, dork

[BallerDave04]

I think it was illegal back in medieval times to open up a dead human and there was no science of anatomy then. But look at how that SCIENCE has saved millions of lives.

Science doesn't have to fix anything. If you would have faith that God is your healer you wouldn't have to worry about sicknesses.

If we would never had turned away from The Holy Spirit then we wouldn't have sicknesses or diseases. Yeshua died on the cross from our healing. Did you know that when Yeshua was flogged that He was hit 39 times? Do you know that there are 39 root causes for all sicknesses and diseases? Is it just a coincidence? God is intentional with everything He does.

I know beyond a doubt that healing is real and have seen it within my life and the lives of people around me. One of my best friends had HIV for 5 years. 2 years ago he had an encounter with Jehovah-Rapha and no longer has it anymore. What has God done in your lives?

[Starrfire]

Not this shit again...

[BallerDave04]

It had to happen sometime. Go hit em with a little taste of the remix...

[geoff]

ballerdave- Hallelujah brother!!!! Man its good to hear what our God is doing. There is just something about praying the different names of Jesus isnt there? There is power, healing, and salvation in the Holy name of our Lord Jesus!!!!

[StreetHazard]

LOL

[bodhi]

ballerdave- Hallelujah brother!!!! Man its good to hear what our God is doing. There is just something about praying the different names of Jesus isnt there? There is power, healing, and salvation in the Holy name of our Lord Jesus!!!!

haha you guys sound like a couple of goddamn amish fucks

[bodhi]

Science doesn't have to fix anything. If you would have faith that God is your healer you wouldn't have to worry about sicknesses.

If we would never had turned away from The Holy Spirit then we wouldn't have sicknesses or diseases. Yeshua died on the cross from our healing. Did you know that when Yeshua was flogged that He was hit 39 times? Do you know that there are 39 root causes for all sicknesses and diseases? Is it just a coincidence? God is intentional with everything He does.

I know beyond a doubt that healing is real and have seen it within my life and the lives of people around me. One of my best friends had HIV for 5 years. 2 years ago he had an encounter with Jehovah-Rapha and no longer has it anymore. What has God done in your lives?

srsly, brooo...

doctor manhattan thinks you're relatively lame


i don't know or care about your friends fake HIV shit, and how he was cured by some fake ass god shit
but i have a similar point in my dissertation, it's summed up more succinctly...

it goes a lil sumpthin like this: "religion is a retarded pile of bullshit used to manipulate gullible people. the end...."

[JDM onlyy]

If you would have faith that God is your healer you wouldn't have to worry about sicknesses.


Let me know how that works out when you catch the flu, pneumonia, or HIV yourself or something. :goodjob:

[geoff]

jdmonlyy- ballerdave makes a good point, you don't believe in this because you don't have the faith he does. Plain and simple stuff really, there are plenty of real documented cases out there of miracle healings.

[sport_122]

i would like to see your research or proof of the kjv not being accurate.

Wow...i've been gone for a while and this is an interesting discussion.

First off, I have not read everything...there is too much on here, but i have seen some serious inaccuracies.

First of the KJV does have errors (and some are intentional, but you need to look at the history of King James and the Anglican church to understand why). You should also remember that the only reason we know there are errors in his translation is because we have original manuscripts to go by...in fact we know that many of our versions have translations errors. Think about the nature of the Judeo-Christian faith...it is historically based. Just like you would read about the Egyptians, the Sumerians, etc etc...we have to always go back and check our understanding of what happened.

The Bible is written as a collection of writings by different authors through time. This being that case, there are tons of real history there, and we are always discovering new things to help us understand the history and the language better. Because the Bible is made from physical manuscripts you can expect two things to always happen.

1. we will always be making leaps in our understandings of past cultures and language. Therefore we will always have to go back and cross reference our newly found understandings with our translations.

2. we should always expect our understandings of what the text says to be pretty close to accurate. Remember, the Bible is not translated on a whim. Its translated with reference and historical information that validates what we understand to have happened. This means that even though we get a few words wrong here or there, the fundamental basis of the accounts written in scripture are still accurate.

Imagine if you will ten people telling of an event that they witness...maybe a bank robbery. One of these people is an american and the other is arabic and so on with varied cultures. They will be speaking in different languages and the root of the words they use will have subtle differences in translated meaning, however the accounts of what they all saw should tell the same story. "A man walked into the bank with a gun and demanded the money and ran out. He was wearing....he was this tall...etc etc"

Now even in this scenario we still are going to be less accurate than the translations of the Bible because everyone doing the translating has access to the original manuscripts and other accounts that are not written as biblical scriptures to verify what is there.

Lastly,
Some of the people on here are commenting based off of wikipedia searches and google. You need to be careful with that because whether or not you believe in the meaning of what is written in the Bible, it is a completely separate thing than saying the Bible is erratic because men wrote it.

The simple facts are:
The men in scripture were real.
They authored their texts.
They told their accounts to the best of their ability in their language and culture.
A very strong majority of their accounts are verified through non-biblical secular texts.
The physical texts are there for referencing ALL new translations.

Just as if you were listening to a persons testimony in the courtroom you can and should scrutinize the texts as its presented. The Bible invites it. But the thing to remember is that you should be asking if the specific individual account is accurate and you should be able to dig and really define those things you believe to be inaccurate. Because we are talking about 3000 year old manuscripts, in some cases we can't verify every little detail, but we should expect to be able to verify some.

Its easy to sit back and play games making claims against the Bible, but the information is out their for you to really look and validate things that are in it. If you are arguing against it and haven't moved past google, and a few atheistic sites then shame on you, you are a fool arguing with wisdom that is thousands of years old and only increasing in its influence and grounding.

[geoff]

+1 i love when you jump in. ladies and gentlemen this is a learned man

[5speed]

Another problem I recently came across is misplaced punctuation. While being misplaced, punctuation may change the sentence into saying something different. Therefore, contradictions in the Bible are made.

[geoff]

According to who? Thats a good question to ask.

[quickdodge®]

+1 i love when you jump in. ladies and gentlemen this is a learned man

As if you've proven yourself to be a good judge of someone's charac.....oh I forgot. You're "Christian." Later, QD.

[Starrfire]

+1 i love when you jump in. ladies and gentlemen this is a learned man


A learned man of a book. What if I started spouted out of all the John Grisham books and all the other books I have. It wouldn't matter how much I knew about though since it's not true. (Well one of his is fiction). But it is a story, not all of them are true. Some are meant to instill morals, while other are accurate translations of what happened. The bible was supposed to be a guide to make people better but it also makes a lot of mindless christian zombies.

[bodhi]

:blah:


you posted a lot of interesting shit, bro

the post talks about, um...
things, and things - and more things that serves NO PURPOSE TO YOUR CASE


i have studied shit about the bible and its origin (waste of a semester)
sure they have fucking authors - EVERY BOOK has to have an author, BUT, the things they talk about never happened - or maybe they did, but it was not done by some god; it was mostly done by natural phenomenon (like tunder storms, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, ect ect...)

youve said before that you went to college and studied religion, so im sure you already know that christianity is just a replica of past religions! like you stated...about the egyptians, and stories of sumerians... they played a part in the bibles birth

ppl back then WERE INFLUENCED by events and had no explanation for them, so they slapped that event with something god-like, and blamed god for when something bad happened, and praised god when something good happened -- then, they wrote it down (kept notes of these events) and eventually started combining all the stories till the bible came to be... PERIOD

[BallerDave04]

"religion is a retarded pile of bullshit used to manipulate gullible people. the end...."

You are correct sir. The way different religions use Biblical translations to manipulate people is terrible. Religion is man made and shouldn't be followed.

Spiritualism on the other hand is different. I don't claim any one religion. The word Christian means "Christ follower." You should be led by The Spirit, not by a person.

[sport_122]

A learned man of a book. What if I started spouted out of all the John Grisham books and all the other books I have. It wouldn't matter how much I knew about though since it's not true. (Well one of his is fiction). But it is a story, not all of them are true. Some are meant to instill morals, while other are accurate translations of what happened. The bible was supposed to be a guide to make people better but it also makes a lot of mindless christian zombies.


That is almost completely wrong. The Bible was not put together to make people better. The Bible was put together because the scattered groups of early Christians realized that there were people trying to influence the foundations of their doctrine. The assembled the books based on the eye witness accounts to the foundations of the church. The Bible is not there to teach people to be good....that is absolutely false. In fact the Bible teaches that people cannot be good. Some stories in scripture are written as parables, but the accounts are not.





the post talks about, um...
things, and things - and more things that serves NO PURPOSE TO YOUR CASE

i have studied shit about the bible and its origin (waste of a semester)
sure they have fucking authors - EVERY BOOK has to have an author, BUT, the things they talk about never happened - or maybe they did, but it was not done by some god; it was mostly done by natural phenomenon (like tunder storms, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, ect ect...)

youve said before that you went to college and studied religion, so im sure you already know that christianity is just a replica of past religions! like you stated...about the egyptians, and stories of sumerians... they played a part in the bibles birth

ppl back then WERE INFLUENCED by events and had no explanation for them, so they slapped that event with something god-like, and blamed god for when something bad happened, and praised god when something good happened -- then, they wrote it down (kept notes of these events) and eventually started combining all the stories till the bible came to be... PERIOD

Okay, so you took a class during a semester that taught you everything you need to know about the Bible. I'm calling you Short Bus from now on. You are in a discussion on something that you have no actual understanding of...way to go.

Bring your historical evidence to the table. thats my simple challenge to you. What you have stated is completely wrong. It doesn't demonstrate any knowledge or understand of the time period or the cultures that produced the individual texts that would become the Bible. Just about everything you say is absolutely false and is a product of years of liars and lazy googlers. People who just can't bring themselve to come to terms with what is written in scripture. You deny historical authenticity with ignorance. You have shown me that you know absolutely nothing about what you are saying, you only have some sort of emotional investment in this discussion, not a position grounded in any form of study or research. Thumbs up to you...the other bible-haters may think you are cool, but I know you ride the short bus on this topic.

Like i said before. You don't have to be a christian to know that the bible has its groundings and they are pretty solid. I've met people who have viewed the Bible as a historical reference and nothing more. Christians take that even further. We look at the accounts and "some of us" will use reasoning and our understanding of how people are to try to understand what was happening. For instance the resurrection of Christ...but thats a completely different thread...you can find my thoughts on that somewhere on here cause I'm not retyping all of that.

[bodhi]

Okay, so you took a class during a semester that taught you everything you need to know about the Bible. I'm calling you Short Bus from now on. You are in a discussion on something that you have no actual understanding of...way to go.

Bring your historical evidence to the table. thats my simple challenge to you. What you have stated is completely wrong. It doesn't demonstrate any knowledge or understand of the time period or the cultures that produced the individual texts that would become the Bible. Just about everything you say is absolutely false and is a product of years of liars and lazy googlers. People who just can't bring themselve to come to terms with what is written in scripture. You deny historical authenticity with ignorance. You have shown me that you know absolutely nothing about what you are saying, you only have some sort of emotional investment in this discussion, not a position grounded in any form of study or research. Thumbs up to you...the other bible-haters may think you are cool, but I know you ride the short bus on this topic.

Like i said before. You don't have to be a christian to know that the bible has its groundings and they are pretty solid. I've met people who have viewed the Bible as a historical reference and nothing more. Christians take that even further. We look at the accounts and "some of us" will use reasoning and our understanding of how people are to try to understand what was happening. For instance the resurrection of Christ...but thats a completely different thread...you can find my thoughts on that somewhere on here cause I'm not retyping all of that.


haha, that is a pile of fake intellectual bullshit that contradicts itself...

words, scriptures, and "science" aren't good enough to explain the real truth, but somehow you and your long winded wordy drivel is doing something really truthful
tards who arrogantly believe in magic never cease to amaze me.
do you belieeeve in maaaagic, a scooby dooby doo bop!


sooo, you think you have a point?? you don't...
like i said before you are just a fake intellectual who doesn't even know really what's going on in general, and like to pretend you're on some impressive trippy higher level of consciousness when really you're just a poser of average intelligence who doesn't know shit

if you ask me really nicely, i'll commit multi-quote assault on your post later tonight... with real facts, and all that other jazz

[geoff]

Lets see your " real " facts buddy. BUT if you wants your " facts " to be considered I want you to first take on the task of disproving all the prophetic and archaeological evidences I provided in my other thread. Then you can go ahead and post your own facts. If you want a serious intellectual debate then don't just sit there and dismiss the evidence provided to you, take the time like a real intellectual and discuss it and explain your views. Don't be guilty of blindness like some on here, cough..QD..cough, and just close your eyes to the proofs as if no that mountain is not real it is just made up. Rise up to the challenge my friend.

[quickdodge®]

Don't be guilty of blindness like some on here, cough..QD..cough, and just close your eyes to the proofs

You have no proof, dummy. You need to open your eyes and see the world for what is and get out of that fantasy world where you think you're life is guided by some unknown, unproven entity and where you think you're a better human than I. You want to keep talking shit with me, I can certainly talk it back with you. And with my intellectual prowess, I'm quite sure you'll be made to look like the fool that you've exhibited yourself to look like so far. You're in for a real treat, stupid. Later, QD.

[bodhi]

Lets see your " real " facts buddy. BUT if you wants your " facts " to be considered I want you to first take on the task of disproving all the prophetic and archaeological evidences I provided in my other thread. Then you can go ahead and post your own facts. If you want a serious intellectual debate then don't just sit there and dismiss the evidence provided to you, take the time like a real intellectual and discuss it and explain your views. Don't be guilty of blindness like some on here, cough..QD..cough, and just close your eyes to the proofs as if no that mountain is not real it is just made up. Rise up to the challenge my friend.


fair enough, geoff

gimme a day or so, to thoroughly dissect your post... ok?

[5speed]

You have no proof, dummy. You need to open your eyes and see the world for what is and get out of that fantasy world where you think you're life is guided by some unknown, unproven entity and where you think you're a better human than I. You want to keep talking shit with me, I can certainly talk it back with you. And with me intellectual prowess, I'm quite sure you'll be made to look like the fool that you've exhibited yourself to look like so far. You're in for a real treat, stupid. Later, QD.

"my intellectual prowess".... hehehe

[quickdodge®]

"my intellectual prowess".... hehehe

Lolol. And of all phrases to fuck up in. Later, QD.

[bodhi]

you're silly QD

joo havent changed dude lol

[5speed]

Lolol. And of all phrases to fuck up in. Later, QD.

I got a good laugh out of that one. I can't say much lately. lol

[quickdodge®]

you're silly QD

joo havent changed dude lol

I do what I can, sometimes, to keep things lively 'round here.


I got a good laugh out of that one. But I can't say much lately. lol

After my getting you the last couple of times, lolol. Later, QD.

[5speed]

I do what I can, sometimes, to keep things lively 'round here.

After my getting you the last couple of times, lolol. Later, QD.

Is the E-thug coming out of you? :yes:

Yeah, I think I am fixed for now.

[geoff]

I'm the fool? I don't believe I have looked like a fool by providing actual studies and evidences, maybe if I had your "intellectual prowess" I would make more sense and use correct grammar like you right? Like I said before buddy, if you want to be taken seriously in these threads than add some intellectual insight instead of your usual, " nananana booboo, your a dummy face and you not smart like me, I am iz god on this site" Come on brother, seriously? Your 39 and have experienced alot in your life, I expected better from you. I will help you out, if you want to have an intelligent conversation or debate with me you just need to follow these steps:
1. Pick a side, get off the proverbial fence of agnostic cowards and stick by your beliefs.
2. Do your research on both sides, faith an no faith, come up with YOUR OWN belief.
3. Do more research on the information available that supports your belief, and present it.

Honestly man I don't think I am better than you, I just think I know more of what I am talking about, and I back it up with examples of studies, research, and scripture. You want to know what a fool is? It's someone that gives their opinion and false information and acts like they know what they are talking about without even a remote foundation on which to back their claims. I don't personally have anything against you, but do you think you sound very intelligent by cussing me out? Grow up man, don't take things so personal.







Later, Geoff

[5speed]

I like where this is going.

[quickdodge®]

I'm the fool?

You sir, are correct.


I will help you out, if you want to have an intelligent conversation or debate with me you just need to follow these steps:

You, of all people, have no room to tell me how to engage in any form of conversation. But I'll indulge you:



1. Pick a side, get off the proverbial fence of agnostic cowards and stick by your beliefs.
2. Do your research on both sides, faith an no faith, come up with YOUR OWN belief.
3. Do more research on the information available that supports your belief, and present it.

1. Have you not yet learned how to understand what words mean when strung together to form correct sentences? I've told you multiple times what "side of the fence" I'm on. Just because you can't accept my position, you have to talk down to me like that? Fuck you.

2. Reread number one. All of it.

3. Hmmmm. Why did you just make options two and three the same thing? Reread number one. All of it.


You want to know what a fool is? It's someone that gives their opinion and false information and acts like they know what they are talking about without even a remote foundation on which to back their claims.

How in the fuck do YOU know that you're not giving out false information??? You always post in here about me or any of us "non-religious scientists" giving out false information as if you knew for a goddamn fact that what you preach is true to word. Who the fuck are you to say that you're fucking right on all this?? Because you have some YouTube videos to "support your claim?"


I don't personally have anything against you, but do you think you sound very intelligent by cussing me out? Grow up man, don't take things so personal.

Resorting back to you thinking you can offend me, huh? And how intelligent did you think you sounded when you said, "I will just be ignoring your nonsense posts?" Yeah. I never started cussing you out until you turned to the tried and true way of the "Christian."

I never said I had anything against you. I actually stated that you're probably an alright dude away from here. I just think you've been God-struck a little too hard. Later, QD.

[geoff]

look im not here to start trouble. if you want we can just pm back and forth. im trying to do a good thing here and its getting way out of hand. for now lets just agree to disagree

[quickdodge®]

its getting way out of hand. for now lets just agree to disagree

I can do that. Later, QD.

[Ziptied]

QD, don't you worship trees and all that gay shit? lololol

[StreetHazard]

QD, don't you worship trees and all that gay shit? lololol

a pagan? now that point of view would be interesting.

[Starrfire]

^^^I work with one of those fags. What a weird bastard. I'm against all organized religion, but this shit is just funny.

[StreetHazard]

^^^I work with one of those fags. What a weird bastard. I'm against all organized religion, but this shit is just funny.


I'm just saying if anyone is going to be pissed as hell at Christians a Pagan would get a free pass, but not any more so than the rest of us. A Pagan in America must feel like an Indian living on a reservation, and I myself feel the same way like a stranger in a strange land. I don't have a full grasp of what Pagans believe but I think it would be interesting to read their opinions.

It is imperative that we begin speaking plainly about the absurdity of most of our religious beliefs. I fear, however, that the time has not yet arrived. In this sense, what follows is written very much in the spirit of a prayer but i like to think of it as more of a cry for reason.

I "pray" that we may one day think clearly enough about these matters to render our children incapable of killing themselves over their books. If not our children, then I suspect it could well be too late for us, because while it has never been difficult to meet your maker, in fifty years it will simply be too easy to drag everyone else along to meet him with you. I have come to the conclusion that the existence of a God is totally inconsequential.

Reason dictates that a life spent in recognition of the universe and of preservation of one's self and others is better than a life spent on your knees.

[StreetHazard]

"Infernal World! and thou, profoundest Hell,
Receive thy new possessor–one who brings
A mind not to be changed by place or time.

The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less than he
Whom thunder hath made greater?

Here at least We shall be free; the Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure; and, in my choice,
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:

Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven."


- John Milton, Paradise Lost