medical study for speaking in tongues...discuss

[geoff]

i found this link the other day and it was very interesting. please discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc

[quickdodge®]

Gibberish is all it is. Plain and simple. Even one the main dudes they interviewed said it. Anyone can stand up and do that, All I have to do right now is just say "fgrhghgsehghhbjsl;giogihighlodjsgjg" and I just spoke in tongue and God will figure out what I just said. Later, QD.

[geoff]

you obviously missed in the video how they did an mri and the area of the brain that involves speech is not even used. you also failed to see that the doctor doing the study stated that " it seems what they say about what they are experiencing matches to the mri scan"

[quickdodge®]

you obviously missed in the video how they did an mri and the area of the brain that involves speech is not even used. you also failed to see that the doctor doing the study stated that " it seems what they say about what they are experiencing matches to the mri scan"

Are you really a fucking idiot? I didn't obviously miss a goddamn thing. Don't talk down on me little boy. You fucking come in this section with your "holier than thou" bullshit all the time thinking your are God's fucking Pony Express. Just because you're a member (the only one I see) of the "Riding For God" crew doesn't make you better than any one of us other motherfuckers who are grounded to reality. Believe me, I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

YOU obviously missed where a guy that participates in this crap said himself that he just spews out whatever and that God interprets it to what he hears.

You need to quit coming in here with your condescending attitude, man. I've tried to be nice when you put yourself higher up, but no more. Later, QD.

[geoff]

talk down to you? please show me one example where i came in with a holier than thou mentality. please do. and please tell me where i put any of you down or said once that i am better than any of you. tell me where i came in here with a condencending attitude or where i put my self higher up. i posted a video and asked for others to discuss. i didnt put any of my oppinion or anything on it. so take your attitude somewhere else. you obviously have a higher issue than me.

[quickdodge®]

Many, many of your posts allude to the "fact" that you are better than others because of your new found belief in the Lord. It's the way you word your posts and replies that lets others see you for what we see you as. And you know it's true. I've addressed that on several occasions to you to which you completely ignored. And when someone ignores a question or "accusation," it usually means they have no response because they know what's up.

This thread right here is an example. Who the fuck are you to tell me what I did or did not do? I obviously watched it and listened or I wouldn't have known what I did type up. If I hadn't watched it, I would have posted some bullshit that had nothing to do with it.

All in all, you are acting like the true, stereotypical "Christian." Later, QD.

[geoff]

and just for your information qd the pastor never said it was gibberish that he was speaking. he said God uses what sounds like gibberish just like any language would sound like gibberish and interpret it for His use. please refer to the video at 1:50-2:03 for the correct quotation of what he said, not what you interpreted. thankx

[S2KJD]

wow this thread was taken out of context real quick :???:

seems personal...

[99hatch]

I believe the original use of tongues is true. The true life examples i have heard or read about in the bible, where used to speak a religion that someone wouldnt know. Not like just yelling out gibberish. Example: Someone preaching in china, but doesnt know Chinese. So through the help of God, is able to speak some Chinese to help get the message across. Also speaking old languages that are not spoken anymore, But i think some of the people who claim to speak tongues are not really doing anything, but yelling out Gibberish.

[geoff]

to qd-^shows that you didnt pay attention to what his actual words were. and here i am, bring you accusation against me. you said from the way i word my posts or the words i say "allude" to me saying im better than everyone cuz my faith. this allusion your refering to is based on yours and a few others OWN interpretation. i never once said im better, your going to hell, your stupid, ect...you took my words and interpreted them as what it meant to you.

yeah it does almost seem personal.

[The Creeper]

Hahaha.... Nice find, so damn funny...

[quickdodge®]

wow this thread was taken out of context real quick :???:

seems personal...

Not personal at all. I don't know the dude. I don't care much for people that think they are above me (for no apparent reason at that) to talk to me in any sort of way. I just finally let him in on what the deal is. No big deal. Later, QD.

[geoff]

99hatch- i agree with you for the most part, that is one way of the tongues. the bible gives to examples of speaking in tongues. the first is like you said, to give a message to someone or the church, this is where there will be a message given in tongues and someone through the spirit will interpret it. really cool stuff.

the second is when the Holy Spirit is making utterances for you. its praying for things you dont know to pray for. its your own personal line with God. some people are doing it for show tho. its very sad. thats why Jesus said not to be like those who pray loud for all to see and use many words to make themselves seem holy.

[quickdodge®]

this allusion your refering to is based on yours and a few others OWN interpretation.

Why don't you think about that then? Later, QD.

[The Creeper]

Christians crack me up.

[geoff]

like i said, here i am, bring your accusation against me. ive done no wrong and if you have been offended its not by my words but by the Spirit convicting you

[quickdodge®]

like i said, here i am, bring your accusation against me. ive done no wrong and if you have been offended its not by my words but by the Spirit convicting you

Lolol. Later, QD.

[The Creeper]

Question for you people of "faith;" what is the point of prayer?

[geoff]

the point of prayer? thats actually a good question.

the point of prayer for me is this, i pray to thank God for everything going on in my life, i praise Him for His goodness and love, i ask Him to help me overcome my selfish desires, to be a worthy vessel to be used by Him, i ask Him to touch certain situations in my life that i need help with, i ask Him to help my family and friends, ect...the purpose of prayer is to get close with the Lord. just like any relationship, you have to talk to the person to grow deeper, to get answers, ect. prayer is just a personal conversation we with faith have with God.

[geoff]

and to be honest with you on here that leave me negative reps or challenge me on issues i have this scripture as to why your offended "Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “ Behold, I lay in Zion, A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.” Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,“ The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,” and “ A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense."
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;" 1peter 2:6-9


the bible says that your not offended by my words but by the Word of God, which is as a sharp sword, that pierces to the flesh, and convicts you and offends you because you dont see with your eyes, or comprehend with your ears, because your hearts are hardened

[StreetHazard]

Are you really a fucking idiot? I didn't obviously miss a goddamn thing. Don't talk down on me little boy. You fucking come in this section with your "holier than thou" bullshit all the time thinking your are God's fucking Pony Express. Just because you're a member (the only one I see) of the "Riding For God" crew doesn't make you better than any one of us other motherfuckers who are grounded to reality. Believe me, I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

YOU obviously missed where a guy that participates in this crap said himself that he just spews out whatever and that God interprets it to what he hears.

You need to quit coming in here with your condescending attitude, man. I've tried to be nice when you put yourself higher up, but no more. Later, QD.



This man's fiery temper made me laugh out loud :goodjob: :lmfao:

I might be wrong but QD's posts usually seem so "politically correct". You made the man lose it...Do you see how you infuriate with your nonsense Geoff?

[quickdodge®]

the bible says that your not offended by my words but by the Word of God, which is as a sharp sword, that pierces to the flesh, and convicts you and offends you because you dont see with your eyes, or comprehend with your ears, because your hearts are hardened

See? With every post you make, you prove my point. You probably won't bother to analyze that just as you haven't with my other posts to you. Later, QD.

[StreetHazard]

like i said, here i am, bring your accusation against me. ive done no wrong and if you have been offended its not by my words but by the Spirit convicting you


Ohhhhh for fuck's sake! BWHAHAHA, that is a good one! I'm going to use that if I get caught cheating on a girlfriend!

[geoff]

i will analyze it, the words i said above are not my own but biblical, "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."hebrews 4:12( written by paul, inspired by God) and then this...

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 timothy 3:1-5( again not my own words ) and this.....

"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." john 12:40 and then this...............

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 timothy 3:7


so who do you have a problem with? its not with me or with God, its with your own flesh. i have not put my own words, i have used scripture, i have not condemned anyone for their beliefs nor judged them. so please take the time and search within yourself and see what the real problem is

[quickdodge®]

so who do you have a problem with? its not with me or with God, its with your own flesh. i have not put my own words, i have used scripture, i have not condemned anyone for their beliefs nor judged them. so please take the time and search within yourself and see what the real problem is

Again with proving my point. You don't see shit, man. All you see are the word of God passing through your fingertips as if you're His messenger boy. I know what I'm talking about. If I say I have a problem with how you talk to people on here, then I mean I have a problem with how YOU talk to people on here. If I had a problem with God, I'd say it. I don't give a fuck what you're saying or who the fuck it came from. Again you tout yourself as the speaker of the word of God by trolling through here and spitting out Biblical verses as if you were on a higher plane.

Basically, you aren't shit to tell me who I have a problem with. That's just showing me that I'm right about my opinion of you. You're always quick to tell me what my problem is when I flat out tell you what the fuck it is. Later, QD.

[bdydrpdmazda]

Speaking in tongues is said to be God giving somebody in church a message for them to pass on to the rest of the church. There is more to is than making up some language.

[geoff]

your still not making sense brother. my bible tells me to go out and preach the gospel to everyone. i dont give my own interpretation i read the gospel to others, or in this case type it. if im going to tell someone about God, or faith, or the works of the Spirit would i not use the bible? i say it how it is man. i find it ironic that people just like you will get offended with Biblical scripture, and then blow up and when the christian presenting it gets pissed you say " ah hah!!!!! your not doing what the bible says. you got angry so your not christian!!!!!" honestly i dont care what your opinion of me is. your almost 40 years old and are big enough to make your own judgements. i let the word speak for itself. go ahead and say see, you did it again. and for your information.....i am one of God's messengers, im witnessing and telling people about God, im giving His message. so in turn i am one of His many messengers.

[quickdodge®]

i find it ironic that people just like you will get offended with Biblical scripture, and then blow up and when the christian presenting it gets pissed you say " ah hah!!!!! your not doing what the bible says. you got angry so your not christian!!!!!"

You dummy. You made absolutely no sense. And who are "people just like" me? You're doing your same goddamn ritual that you speak for me. Do you think I'm God or something? You're a fucking dumb motherfucker to keep coming back like you know who I am from what you fucking see on a monitor. Why don't you stop acting like you know what's going on inside of me? That's the same attitude I keep telling you that you have.


im witnessing and telling people about God

You're actually witnessing what you think is God. You really should check yourself on how you talk to people, man. I see you being one of those madmen on street corners holding up those FEAR GOD signs. Later, QD.

[geoff]

yes i am witnessing to people telling them about my God. say what you want. think what you want. i dont instill people with fear of God, i get them to see the love of God

[ISAtlanta300]

Speaking in tongues is said to be God giving somebody in church a message for them to pass on to the rest of the church. There is more to is than making up some language.

So why doesn't the Omnipotent speak just plain english, a language that HE invented? He certainly understands me and you when we pray in English?

[ISAtlanta300]

you obviously missed in the video how they did an mri and the area of the brain that involves speech is not even used. you also failed to see that the doctor doing the study stated that " it seems what they say about what they are experiencing matches to the mri scan"

OF COURSE the area that involves speech is not even used... because IT ISN'T SPEECH !! IT IS NOISE! NO different than me making farting noises with my mouth.

I bet they forgot to look for the 'creative' part of the brain... probably lit up like a christmas tree..........

[bodhi]

i found this link the other day and it was very interesting. please discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc

dithagont yithagou withagish yithagou nithagew jithagibbithagerithagish

you are now saved my child

[The Creeper]

the point of prayer? thats actually a good question.

the point of prayer for me is this, i pray to thank God for everything going on in my life, i praise Him for His goodness and love, i ask Him to help me overcome my selfish desires, to be a worthy vessel to be used by Him, i ask Him to touch certain situations in my life that i need help with, i ask Him to help my family and friends, ect...the purpose of prayer is to get close with the Lord. just like any relationship, you have to talk to the person to grow deeper, to get answers, ect. prayer is just a personal conversation we with faith have with God.

Well seeing how you believe in the super being that is god, the all knowing god if you will, why bother praying. He already should know your thoughts, so why do you repeat your thoughts to him....:thinking:

[geoff]

because God wants to hear us. He wants us to speak to Him and He will speak to us. kinda like a child and a father. the child wants something and the Father knows, sometimes the Father just wants to hear his child say, " i love you daddy, can i have this?" its all about a personal relationship.

to isatlanta300- the reason God does not speak in plain english is this, in the old testament God spoke to the people and they couldnt stand the presence, they asked Him not to do it again because they were affraid. and, God does not speak in a human language because our flesh is vile and He cant use it. He uses the Holy Spirit that can dwell in you to speak. He also uses His word and prophecy to speak to His people

[bodhi]

God does not speak in a human language because our flesh is vile and He cant use it. He uses the Holy Spirit that can dwell in you to speak. He also uses His word and prophecy to speak to His people

how do you know this?

and do you have any evidence to support this claim?

[bu villain]

to isatlanta300- the reason God does not speak in plain english is this, in the old testament God spoke to the people and they couldnt stand the presence, they asked Him not to do it again because they were affraid. and, God does not speak in a human language because our flesh is vile and He cant use it. He uses the Holy Spirit that can dwell in you to speak. He also uses His word and prophecy to speak to His people

God's english is too awesome for you to handle!!! He can create heaven and earth but speaking directly to people in english is beyond his power. Now if only the Holy Spirit could learn English, we'd be in business.

[geoff]

bohdi- i know this because i have witnessed/experienced it. i have been in service where God called my name out, im the only nathan in church. i have witnessed prophecy happen for others lives where God called out there sin and told them to repent, i have witnessed a tongues message and interpretation for the church. i have prayed for something and asked God to give me an answer and opened my Bible and the first thing i laid my eyes on was my answer. i wish you could experience the feeling you get inside of you when a prophecy is given. you get a fire burning sensation in your chest, you get the chills in your spine, and you feel humbled as if your an ant standing in the presence of an elephant. my words cant explain it alone. you would have to experience it for
yourself. and i invite you to, i would love to bring you to a service one sunday if you wish to see where im coming from.

buvillian- your pretty much right on the money, God's voice is too awesome for us to handle. the bible says that when Jesus appeared to John in the book of revelations that His voice was like thunder and lightning and that john fell on his face as if dead. it is not beyond God's power to speak directly to us, our flesh and sins seperate us from Him and put up a barrier, we are polluted whereas God is pure. He can not use a polluted form to communicate with people. but as with bohdi i invite you to come experience Him for yourself and make up your judgements after

[bodhi]

know what geoff? you are one determined individual

what church do you go to?

[geoff]

its called new life apostolic. its like 10 minutes from athens. you know what buddy i would be willing to meet you up and drive you there if you like. i have been on this site for a while now witnessing and telling people about my Jesus and faith. what would it hurt some of you to come check it out?

[StreetHazard]

You should go Bodhi! and take QD with you...

Lemme know how it goes, and be sure to take note of any slutty christian females in desperate need of rebelling against their strict, rigid and very unfun ideologies. You can just point them into my direction and I will handle them accordingly.

[geoff]

your invited too streethazard. come on guys, i have done alot of talking on here, check it out once and see what im all about, i dare you

[StreetHazard]

your invited too streethazard. come on guys, i have done alot of talking on here, check it out once and see what im all about, i dare you


Unless there are good-looking, sexually-repressed, vulnerable, rebellious christian girls im not coming. Wait....it's church of course they have those there. But they have to be over 21 and under 150lbs Geoff, not those fatties in the homepage pictures of that link to your church you put up before.

None! of these girls... and your church looks (how should I say) to "redneck" for me. I'm too much of a city boy.

[trini_gsr]

LOL this thread is funny. geoff, have u been a christian for very long? u remind me of those newly converted college kids that wanna go out and save the world. nothing wrong with being excited but you have a lot to learn. after a few years you'll learn to tone it down...and you'll "win a lot more hearts to Christ" that way.

as far as the tongues thing...the Bible (IMO) is clear. speaking jibberish in public doesn't do anything for anyone. if i remember right, there was one example when the Holy Spirit had ppl speaking in tongues, and that's because ppl speaking many different languages were in the temple that day. So each nationality was able to hear the Word of God in their language and as a result, a lot of ppl got saved that day. which was the entire point of the exercise...

now there might be an argument for praying in tongues in private. still the idea of the Holy Spirit making someone pray for things they dont know they need...just seems stoopid, sorry. i can't recall any examples in the Bible where this is done. you pray and meditate and God reveals his will to you, that's the way it always works. it's really pretty simple.

just my :2cents:, i'm rusty on all this bible stuff anyhow...

[NJSC]

So I too am one of those "Bible Thumpers" and I tend to keep quiet in the Religion section because it's hard to talk about God through simply typing. First thing, Geoff, and I'm not trying to call you out or harp on you (forgive me if you take offense) but showing the love of God is not just quoting scripture that can insult people. Kinda Pharasaic if you ask me. Showing the love of God is actually loving people, and I think that through your techniques you can be misconstrued as thinking you are above other people or that you talk down to others. Now even if QD has been offended by what you say and even if you think he is completely wrong and has no grounds to accuse you then you still have to remember what he is feeling and what he is getting from you. If you are trying to give out and show God's love and he interprets that as hostility or arrogance then what good are you doing showing God's love, hmmm sounds scriptural to me (read Romans 14).
QD,
You always seem to be a voice of Devil's advocate, which I find hilarious and we can use more of those in our lives I believe, and even though I have not been around the site long I respect that opinion. I agree with you about the speaking in tongues. I myself have not been involved in a tradition that uses the speaking in tongues, but honestly I'm at a point to say, "Hey if that's how they want to get down in church then let them get down that way." What are your further thoughts on the issues concerning the MRI tests? I personally think that nothing is conclusive. Hardly an actual scientific study.

[Starrfire]

While on the topic of speaking in tongues; When I used to go to church there were always the same old women every service that spoke the said the same "tongue shit" every service. Must have been an important message from god lol. Not really, they were just getting the attention they wanted.

[scooby_snack]

Watch this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcg6LfGieRc

Try and watch the whole episode if you can. This fella pretty much debunks all of this tongue/religious/alien/psychic experience bullshit.

/thread.

[quickdodge®]

geoff, have u been a christian for very long? u remind me of those newly converted college kids that wanna go out and save the world. nothing wrong with being excited but you have a lot to learn.

That's exactly what it is. If I remember correctly, he stated in another thread that he just recently "found God." I guess that's why he's so gung-ho about it.


First thing, Geoff, and I'm not trying to call you out or harp on you (forgive me if you take offense) but showing the love of God is not just quoting scripture that can insult people. Kinda Pharasaic if you ask me. Showing the love of God is actually loving people, and I think that through your techniques you can be misconstrued as thinking you are above other people or that you talk down to others. Now even if QD has been offended by what you say and even if you think he is completely wrong and has no grounds to accuse you then you still have to remember what he is feeling and what he is getting from you. If you are trying to give out and show God's love and he interprets that as hostility or arrogance then what good are you doing showing God's love,

This is a perfect summary of what I've been trying to get across. I'm telling him the image he is portraying to people and he doesn't seem to care. He is so blinded by his faith that he doesn't see what he is doing in reality. And he blames it on us being offended at God.

Thank you for this post because it is spot on, man.


QD,
You always seem to be a voice of Devil's advocate, which I find hilarious and we can use more of those in our lives I believe...

I'm a semi-believer, lolol, if you can understand that. But I'm a realist as well. It's hard to believe in something sight unseen. I don't know that I believe that the stories in the Bible are any more than just stories for life lessons or for entertainment. But I believe in God and all that. But I despise people like Geoff so much that it comes across that I am a total atheist. And it turns me off of religion. I have no problem with anyone's choice of religion; Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, whatever. But don't throw the shit in my face and don't come at me like you're better than me because you are 100% God's messenger and I have a doubts and questions.

Later, QD.

[AirMax95]

This thread went in like a Tiger Woods put...like a Little Wayne/Drake song, lol.


Seriously, wow...

[ISAtlanta300]

because God wants to hear us. He wants us to speak to Him and He will speak to us. kinda like a child and a father. the child wants something and the Father knows, sometimes the Father just wants to hear his child say, " i love you daddy, can i have this?" its all about a personal relationship.

to isatlanta300- the reason God does not speak in plain english is this, in the old testament God spoke to the people and they couldnt stand the presence, they asked Him not to do it again because they were affraid. and, God does not speak in a human language because our flesh is vile and He cant use it. He uses the Holy Spirit that can dwell in you to speak. He also uses His word and prophecy to speak to His people

Awesome. So that is what He thinks of HIS own creation? We are just vile, stinking flesh and not worth of His grace? And whacha mean he 'can't use it' ??? he is GOD, he can do whatever he wants....

[ISAtlanta300]

you pray and meditate and God reveals his will to you, that's the way it always works. it's really pretty simple....

pretty much on the money. "Praying" is not to be used to 'ask' for things, but rather, seek guidance in accomplishing your goals.

[geoff]

wow so many people to respond to. lol. first off i knew of God always but didnt pursue it until i turned 19.

trinigsr- see romans 8:26 "...but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered"

njsc- thanx i guess? love for sinners is telling them of the love of God, i too am a sinner and sometimes the word of God comes across boldly and convicts. its scriptual. i personally have not judged/condemned/accused anyone. a recent study showed that less than 2% of americans share their faith, is that love?

starfire- bible says, "test every spirit..." 1john 4:1 and "dont pray for show as the hypocrites that want to be seen..." matt. 6:5

QD- im truly sorry for offending you. the last thing i want to do is to push someone away. i sincerely appologize to you. if you have any questions or whatever i would love to help if i can. the reason i may seem so "gunho" is that God has really helped me with alot and if your a believer than you believe Christ will be returning soon, so im concerned for the souls of everyone.

isatlanta300- our sins are vile and polluted, they seperate us from God's holiness and purity. He can not use it because flesh is rebelious, sinful, selfish; while God is loving, holy, pure, giving, sacrificial. and we are worthy of His grace because He died on the cross for us and His blood was the sacrifice for us, the ultimate act of love is to take the punishment for another or die for one you love.

isatlanta300- your second post.....the bible says this...http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/07-0007.htm

i think thats everyone lol. and once again, i apologize to all those i have offended.

[trini_gsr]

wow so many people to respond to. lol. first off i knew of God always but didnt pursue it until i turned 19.

trinigsr- see romans 8:26 "...but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered"


you realize this disproves your point right? Looks to me like this says it's physically impossible to put into speech the intercession the Holy Spirit makes. which makes sense because God is a spirit being...if the Holy Spirit is interceding on our behalf to God directly, then words are irrelevant.

you do realize you can speak directly to God with your mind, right?

[geoff]

im not really sure what your trying to say...first you said the idea of the Holy Spirit making someone pray for things that they dont know they need was stupid, yet romans 8:26 validates this. the bible also says that the outward evidence of being filled with the Spirit is speaking in tongues.
on further note, 1corinthians 14:22-25 says, " wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." if therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? but if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convicted or all, he is judged of all:and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

as you see from the above quoted scripture, not in my words but in God's, you see that tongues is a sign to believers and used as prophecy to win unbelievers. those are just two examples of which the bible gives more on the gift of tongues. you seem like someone that has faith, so why do you take only some of the scripture when it comes to tongues instead of all of it? the bible is not a buffet my friend, you cant just pick and chose scripture or twist it

[StreetHazard]

im not really sure what your trying to say...first you said the idea of the Holy Spirit making someone pray for things that they dont know they need was stupid, yet romans 8:26 validates this. the bible also says that the outward evidence of being filled with the Spirit is speaking in tongues.
on further note, 1corinthians 14:22-25 says, " wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." if therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? but if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convicted or all, he is judged of all:and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

as you see from the above quoted scripture, not in my words but in God's, you see that tongues is a sign to believers and used as prophecy to win unbelievers. those are just two examples of which the bible gives more on the gift of tongues. you seem like someone that has faith, so why do you take only some of the scripture when it comes to tongues instead of all of it? the bible is not a buffet my friend, you cant just pick and chose scripture or twist it


Again with you throwing the bible around like you wrote the fucking thing. And again with you pretending you have any idea what the fuck your talking about. But this topic is so epically retarded, as most things are that fall well into the realm of "belief" that is not even worth debating. but there has been a couple notable studies on this...the scientific term is called "glossolalia".

[geoff]

actually he stated that he didnt think it was biblical so i looked up scripture and showed him where exactly in the bible it stated this. and im not throwing it around like i wrote it im simply giving the exact answer to this question. im well aware that there have been several scientific studies done on this topic. its actually really interesting if you look into it. your not actually interested in it are you streethazard lol?

[The Creeper]

I just don't understand the point in god, or the point in being a christian really. My mind really can't understand why people believe in a technically imaginary being. I realized there is no god when i was 7 years old. My mind just doesn't allow me to believe, and it's always been that way. So the mind I was born with, or you believers would say blessed with, in the end, is a curse, because according to your religion I am going to hell. What kind of freedom of choice is that? Just, to me, shows how fucked up the entire religion of Christianity really is. I technically have free will to believe or not to believe, but in reality I don't. Ah fuck it. See some of you boys is hell ;)

[StreetHazard]

actually he stated that he didnt think it was biblical so i looked up scripture and showed him where exactly in the bible it stated this. and im not throwing it around like i wrote it im simply giving the exact answer to this question. im well aware that there have been several scientific studies done on this topic. its actually really interesting if you look into it. your not actually interested in it are you streethazard lol?


Not even slightly, it would be like discussing the merits of Ouija boards or some such IMO.

[Starrfire]

wow so many people to respond to. lol. first off i knew of God always but didnt pursue it until i turned 19.

trinigsr- see romans 8:26 "...but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered"

njsc- thanx i guess? love for sinners is telling them of the love of God, i too am a sinner and sometimes the word of God comes across boldly and convicts. its scriptual. i personally have not judged/condemned/accused anyone. a recent study showed that less than 2% of americans share their faith, is that love?

starfire- bible says, "test every spirit..." 1john 4:1 and "dont pray for show as the hypocrites that want to be seen..." matt. 6:5

QD- im truly sorry for offending you. the last thing i want to do is to push someone away. i sincerely appologize to you. if you have any questions or whatever i would love to help if i can. the reason i may seem so "gunho" is that God has really helped me with alot and if your a believer than you believe Christ will be returning soon, so im concerned for the souls of everyone.

isatlanta300- our sins are vile and polluted, they seperate us from God's holiness and purity. He can not use it because flesh is rebelious, sinful, selfish; while God is loving, holy, pure, giving, sacrificial. and we are worthy of His grace because He died on the cross for us and His blood was the sacrifice for us, the ultimate act of love is to take the punishment for another or die for one you love.

isatlanta300- your second post.....the bible says this...http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/07-0007.htm

i think thats everyone lol. and once again, i apologize to all those i have offended.


So you can take scripture out of context but you scoff at others when they do the same thing. :rolleyes:

[geoff]

the creeper- yeah the mind is a curse. the flesh as the bible puts it is emnity against God. you do have free will. you can choose to believe or not, it doesnt change the outcome. not sure how a 7 year old with very limited intellectuality can come to a studied sound decision that there is no God.

streethazard- i actually like talking to you, keeps me on my toes cuz i never know what your gonna say next. still praying for you

starfire- please show me where i once took scripture out of context...if you can then i will give you my trans-am

[Starrfire]

Out of context. You quoted one scripture from many to say what you wanted to with, even with the verse with it. How is that not out of context?
You owe me a trans am

[geoff]

um you still didnt give me an example. please go quote exactly what and where i said that i used scripture out of context.

[The Creeper]

the creeper- yeah the mind is a curse. the flesh as the bible puts it is emnity against God. you do have free will. you can choose to believe or not, it doesnt change the outcome. not sure how a 7 year old with very limited intellectuality can come to a studied sound decision that there is no God.

streethazard- i actually like talking to you, keeps me on my toes cuz i never know what your gonna say next. still praying for you

starfire- please show me where i once took scripture out of context...if you can then i will give you my trans-am

Well Geoff, when I was 7 I went to a summer camp thing, that lasted about a week or two. Me and my older brothers went. Turns out, it was a bible camp. Yea we did a lot of fun activities like dodge ball and such, but then there was all kind of bible thumping as well. I remember a part about the counselor telling me that I need to get saved. Something where I ask Jesus to forgive my sins or some shit. Total horse shit. I played along with their little "jesus saving" antics, and then told my parents I will never go back to that summer camp. And now, over the years, I have dabbled into a church here and there, to see what it's all about, and every time it reminds how psychotic you fucking Christians really are. Also, I was very intelligent at the age of 7, but I admit I lacked knowledge because of my age. Don't get the two twisted. It's funny how I could be so young and make that choice, and obviously I still stand by it, nearly 15 years later..:goodjob:

[geoff]

well i agree with the statement of needing to be saved, what i dont agree with is blind faith. i personally believe one should not make any commitment to God with out first studying and learning. just my .02

[Starrfire]

um you still didnt give me an example. please go quote exactly what and where i said that i used scripture out of context.


Do you even read your own posts?:thinking:

[geoff]

yeah i do. please quote me where i once took scripture and twisted it

[Starrfire]

Are you really so stupid? Go to the last page. I'm not quoting it for you.
You took scriptures out of the bible, even part of them, and posted them in a sentence. You didn't have to twist anything because it already is lol.

Now we'll exercise taking things out of context. Read the paragraph. It is just an example paragraph taken from the internet.


When I first brought my cat home from the Humane Society she was a mangy, pitiful animal. She was so thin that you could count her vertebrae just by looking at her. Apparently she was declawed by her previous owners, then abandoned or lost. Since she couldn't hunt, she nearly starved. Not only that, but she had an abscess on one hip. The vets at the Humane Society had drained it, but it was still scabby and without fur. She had a terrible cold, too. She was sneezing and sniffling and her meow was just a hoarse squeak. And she'd lost half her tail somewhere. Instead of tapering gracefully, it had a bony knob at the end.

Now remove a sentence. Ex.

Since she couldn't hunt, she nearly starved

See how much sense this one sentence makes by itself. None right. Although the ones you used had a bit more structure, it makes for the same effect. You took a one sentence from a group of many, aka from context.
Not exactly fallacy out of context, but you didn't specify did you?

See how I took that one sentence out. You did the same thing with the scriptures you were using to make a point. Since you lied about giving me your trans am then you just bluntly lied, and will burn in Christian hell. But since your "god" is so "great" he will forgive you since you fall short every day. It must be tough admitting that you are so terrible at that you put so much faith in.

[geoff]

actually im searching for where you said i was out of context. please show me. if your saying and accusing me of taking scripture and twisting it or taking it out of context than its your duty to provide the evidence

[trini_gsr]

im not really sure what your trying to say...first you said the idea of the Holy Spirit making someone pray for things that they dont know they need was stupid, yet romans 8:26 validates this.

i think you misunderstood me. i think it's stupid for the Holy Spirit to make ppl speak (as in vocalize) gibberish during prayer, when God can read minds. the scripture you mentioned says that the Holy Spirit intercedes with God "in groanings that cannot be uttered"...which to me means that the human tongue/voicebox/whatever cannot speak (vocalize) it. If anything that scripture invalidates the necessity for speaking in tongues during prayer.


the bible also says that the outward evidence of being filled with the Spirit is speaking in tongues.
on further note, 1corinthians 14:22-25 says, " wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." if therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? but if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convicted or all, he is judged of all:and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

the way i see this verse is like how it was at Pentecost. when ppl started speaking in tongues, obviously the other jews there didn't understand a word they were saying and thought they were crazy. But to the foreigners (who were all unbelievers at the time) visiting it was amazing to hear these plain looking jewish ppl talk about this Jesus fella in their own language.

this verse just explains the rationale...even if you're in a church full of ppl speaking english, and ONE person is in the group that speaks russian...if the Spirit moves someone to speak in the visitor's native tongue (russian) and that person gets saved then it is all good - even if nobody else understands a word of it...


you seem like someone that has faith, so why do you take only some of the scripture when it comes to tongues instead of all of it? the bible is not a buffet my friend, you cant just pick and chose scripture or twist it

person of faith? let's just say i'm pretty open-minded lol. i know it is difficult but you need to learn to look at all this stuff objectively to gain a full understanding. look at the context of the verses, think about the culture and society at the time it was written, etc. anybody can look in the Bible and find scripture to support a position. that's why you have so many denominations out there.

and your last comment here is why ppl have a problem with you in this forum. you come off as condescending when you barely have your feet wet lol. you need to humble yourself a little bit...

[bodhi]

geoff is 21, and found jesus two years ago

now, they're bffs.
he's learned everything there is to know about the bible and religion in general. he skipped the whole going to college and learning about it and its origin
perhaps we should all just stop right now.

he's got jesus on his side; there's no way we'll win against his awesomeness.

[geoff]

triningsr- i dont know what to tell you bro. i thought the scriptures was pretty evident. in all reality you cant deny the speaking in tongues while praying until you yourself have first recieved the Holy Spirit and then been under the power during prayer.

bohdi- honestly bro the best way to learn about God or the what His words in the bible are is to learn straight from Him. my bible doesnt tell me to study Him or His word in college from professors or that i can not be bold in faith until many years of service. i learn everything from a personal relationship with my Lord and from studying and praying myself. i dont have all the answers and i never will. all i can do is provide answers from scripture or give my own personal experience and testimony, God does the rest, whether someone feels conviction or rejection or embraces it, God has an answer for every feeling

[bodhi]

religion has served its purpose for us in the past, but it's not needed any longer

you always talk about your faith... and how its helped you through your shit or whatnot, but their are two kinds of faith imo.
bad faith is unfortunately the shit that gets associated with what we generally think of when we try and define "faith..." bad faith refers to blind faith, the sort of faith that says you should stand at the end of a long line hoping to get a bowl of soup but that even if it doesn't come, you proved your worth by standing in line.

this, is your faith.

good faith refers to believing in the things we can see, touch, feel, think and experience. unduhstan?
i can't see god, i can't touch god, i don't think there is a god, and I haven't experienced god. i have faith in realistic things, not tinker bell and never never land.


if there is a God, why do I have this pimple in the center of my back that i can't scratch or pop off? huh?! HUH??!! frankly, if there is a God who allows this type of thing to happen to people, i don't want to meet him.

[trini_gsr]

triningsr- i dont know what to tell you bro. i thought the scriptures was pretty evident. in all reality you cant deny the speaking in tongues while praying until you yourself have first recieved the Holy Spirit and then been under the power during prayer.



ultimately it's a difference of opinion. i'm not going to sit here and tell you that your experiences with speaking in tongues are invalid. to me the Bible is pretty clear about it, but from personal experience...i've seen weirder things. i do have some ideas about it (including why when ppl do it, they see results) but it's totally outside the scope of this conversation.

it's just not something i personally subscribe to. belief in tongues isn't a make-or-break kinda deal anyway.

[geoff]

bohdi- my faith is all i have in this life, this is my belief "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men." 1 corinthians 15:12-19 i really wish you could experience the Lord, you wouldnt ever be the same.

trinigsr- i know some people do it for show, but to be under the power of the Holy Ghost is a beautiful thing, to have God take over you when your flesh is put under subjection. either way brother its not about opinion or religion, but relationship. we each have our own convictions and each relationship with the Lord is special and different. God bless you and your in my prayers

[Starrfire]

bohdi- my faith is all i have in this life, this is my belief "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men." 1 corinthians 15:12-19 i really wish you could experience the Lord, you wouldnt ever be the same.:no:

True, he would be much more mindless;)

[geoff]

not all christians are brainwashed robots

[quickdodge®]

not all christians are brainwashed robots

Honestly, you seem to be one that is. Later, QD.

[bodhi]

bohdi- my faith is all i have in this life, this is my belief "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men." 1 corinthians 15:12-19 i really wish you could experience the Lord, you wouldnt ever be the same.

dude, seriously... wtf did you just say?
if god was not raised then, we are wasting our time... and um.. if jesus was not raised then, im a fucking idiot... what?!?!!
geoff, please share that blunt you're smoking for i wish to be in touch with my spiritual side too


if i experienced the lord, i would prolly not be the same, because according to this interesting article i read a few weeks ago: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100212/sc_livescience/linkstospiritualityfoundinthebrain)
"Scientists have identified areas of the brain that, when damaged, lead to greater spirituality. The findings hint at the roots of spiritual and religious attitudes, the researchers say."


I MIGHT BE COCO FOR COCOA PUFFS... HA-HU-HYUCK!!1


no, seriously tho

interesting huh? i mean it makes sense doesn't it?
if something in your head... makes you think something is there that isn't.... then, don't you think you might have a problem?
its like mtv, geoff. the real world; whats their saying? see what happens when things start getting real, the real world. yeah, something along those lines

[geoff]

QD- i may be gunho about it and i make mistakes sometimes at how i portray the message. but im not one of these mindless drones. this subject is just something that really interests me and im just trying to do what the bible tells me to as far as telling people about Jesus.
once again i apologize for offending you.

bohdi- that study holds no more value than the study i posted in this thread. its just one for the other side. you seem like a man that wants reality in his life and not blind information. it surprises me that you dont even care to weigh out all the options and instead go along with info that you havent taken the time to examine yourself.

to everyone on here without faith, i dont know if you all have taken the time to study and search for God or if your just rebellious and go along with the new trends. i can give a biblical answer for whats going on but that would only offend you and push you away. so instead i ask you all to open your hearts, search for God, and come to a conclusion on your own.

[quickdodge®]

QD-
once again i apologize for offending you.

I told you before that you don't have what it takes to offend me. Letting you know that you weren't going to "talk" to me like you're higher up than me wasn't going to continue. I wasn't offended because I knew wasn't true. And you do resemble a mindless drone because all you do is post scriptures to get any of your alleged points across. You go straight to the owner's manual to post your rhetoric. You preach as how you think God wants you to preach.


i dont know if you all have taken the time to study and search for God

Right there. You should have stopped right there. You would have seemed like a much more credible person if you would have just stated this and stopped ahead of any other posts you've made. A lot of your posts, because you don't do this, is just case in points for us "non believers." Later, QD.

[StreetHazard]

I think it is very hard for a Christian to use scripture as any valid point in any kind of religious discussion...It is very easy to find contradictions to almost ANY verse contained within the text. And it puts the christian on the "defensive" because inevitably they feel they should be defending it's words because when viewed objectively the entire work falls flat even as a bases for life lessons and basic morality. And I have actually heard lessons by pastors themselves on why a christian should NOT use scripture as a bases of religious debate...because in (his) midset, engaging in religious debate utilizing the word of god opens yourself up to "Satan" and self-doubt about the truthfulness of the word of god. And attempting to prove yourself "right" is appealing to your ego, which also will lead you to the path of Satan. Which is also more proof of the ignorance of religion itself, when it's very adherents and leaders do not support the questioning it's ideas and fits the literal definition of religious dogma.

For every good deed God has supposedly created, he has nullified it with a policy of wrathful vengeance, war-mongering, slavery and death. For too long religion has enjoyed the benefit of the doubt, taking all the benefit and allowing none of the doubt.

I found out recently that the word "heretic" comes from the Greek word "hereticos", meaning "able to choose" - which pretty much says it all for me. Somebody said to me recently on facebook, "Clearly you just don't understand what a person's faith actually means to them. For me," she said, "it's like the water of life."

And I thought, what a great phrase "the water of life", without which, of course, there can be no life. But even the water of life needs to be contained and properly managed, or it can run out of control, get into places where it doesn't belong and cause real damage. For example, if the water of your life gets together with the water of other people's lives, and they form a Katrina style flood, a rushing torrent of righteous certainty that sweeps all before it, including reason, well then it's not so much the water of life anymore, is it?

It's rapidly turning into the water of death, as everything in its path is crushed and destroyed!.....Original thought, rational inquiry, free speech and their tattered remnants are strewn upon the rocks of scripture and blind dogma. What's needed here, obviously, is a dam to contain this water of death, convert it back into the water of life, and give us all a chance to switch on a lightbulb in our minds. And that's where secularism comes in. It's everybody's friend, believer and non-believer alike, which I think makes it the real water of life. At least almost as much as this stuff I am drinking here....a frothy ice cold beer, on a Sunday...but I had to buy it yesterday to enjoy it because of our Blue Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law#Georgia).
.
.
.
and listening to this while enjoying my Ale

"SHOW ME YOUR GOD" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUx0Cgifx-Y)

"KING OF DARKNESS" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ49QxtiWOw&feature=PlayList&p=F8F219B1092C8F21&index=16)
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[bodhi]

bohdi- that study holds no more value than the study i posted in this thread. its just one for the other side. you seem like a man that wants reality in his life and not blind information. it surprises me that you dont even care to weigh out all the options and instead go along with info that you havent taken the time to examine yourself.

to everyone on here without faith, i dont know if you all have taken the time to study and search for God or if your just rebellious and go along with the new trends. i can give a biblical answer for whats going on but that would only offend you and push you away. so instead i ask you all to open your hearts, search for God, and come to a conclusion on your own.

stop being such a moon faced dork for a minute, and just accept that your personal saviour is a clueless prick

there is no god, there is no hell or heaven...
there is however; porn, beer, strip clubs, entertainment, art, ect ect

who needs someone who requires the use of your imagination - to be considered almost real - when you gotz real shit all around yous?