Being different vs. Making power

[bigdare23]

I think this topic will make a good discussion :D


When it comes to natural aspiration Honda people I notice there is two groups of people, people who wants to make power. Then there's people who wants to make power and be "different". My question for the second group of people. You want to go fast, right. So why not just go fast? What's the point of being "different"? Also, is it really being different if there's a cult of people doing the same thing your doing (such as building LS motors or d16s)?


Discuss.


(Also, this is not a shot at SOHC and nonVTEC guys. I'm just trying to see your thought process. :goodjob:)

[hadouken]

people dont always want to be the same they think as ill find my own way to make power i dont need this or that.

[Starrfire]

Been there done that with my old all motor D. Live and learn.

[Supraboy87T]

I'm not looking to go fast. I just want to see what I can make power wise out of the motor that my car originally came with from the factory in which country it was bought. I thought I was "different" till the economy took a shit and made everyone more tight on their cash, meaning now they go the cheaper route aka(building D-series) or whatever. I don't mind that more people are doing it it gives me more competition now that there are more people with the same general setups. To each there own, opinions are like assholes everybody has one.

[alpine_aw11]

I've never understood it. With motor builds "different" pretty much means inferior. It's not like the arguments over how played out egay lips and rotas are, with engines the performance has been proven for various motors. No point in building a strung out D-series that won't even last when you can do a proven swap that works.

[bigdare23]

I'm not looking to go fast. I just want to see what I can make power wise out of the motor that my car originally came with from the factory in which country it was bought. I thought I was "different" till the economy took a shit and made everyone more tight on their cash, meaning now they go the cheaper route aka(building D-series) or whatever. I don't mind that more people are doing it it gives me more competition now that there are more people with the same general setups. To each there own, opinions are like assholes everybody has one.


I can respect that. Make the best out of what you have. There's nothing wrong with that. REPS

[cprtyler]

im one of those different guys i have a ls all motor that im building, im doing it for two reasons, 1 for fun,2 to c how much the infearior b will staind against its vtec cousins, to some a waste of time and money, but to other a quest to get power out of what they have. also u can find them faster and cheaper then the more powerful vtec motors.

[superboost]

I always thought being different was driving something other than a honda, whether NA or boosted.....


badum-tish

[bdydrpdmazda]

I always thought being different was driving something other than a honda, whether NA or boosted.....


badum-tish
exactly... +26

[00 blk G20t]

nothing wrong with the LS motor its a good starting point. you can always add vtec or even turbo it and make plenty of power. the D series all motor im not really a fan of. i would rather see a swap done but hey im all down for a D turbo.

[Supraboy87T]

I always thought being different was driving something other than a honda, whether NA or boosted.....


badum-tish

Then I guess I am different since I drive a mk3 supra too. LOL

[bigdare23]

I always thought being different was driving something other than a honda, whether NA or boosted.....


badum-tish


I think you overlook the purpose of the thread...

[Vteckidd]

Look how many dohc stock internal vtec motors make 185-200 whp

look how many all motor d series or non vtecs make the much

/thread

[BABY J]

I think this topic will make a good discussion :D

When it comes to natural aspiration Honda people I notice there is two groups of people, people who wants to make power. Then there's people who wants to make power and be "different".

Here is where you miss it. The "be different" people aren't neccessarily looking for "power". They are looking for "power out of THEIR setup". Take you and putting OEM parts in that b16 - LOL. It took you 12 miles to come around my STOCK LS in the wagon from a 60 roll - imagine had we went from the dig - GAME OVER... and you made 40 more HP. I could laugh at you (again) or I could say "hey - that's my dude and that's what he wants to build". Didn't set any world records but it's what you wanted to do so roll with it. It's a simple mind that thinks "oh, I make more power than him so I win." If you think of it as a pissing contest then you will never understand some1 that wants to build something "less popular" or something where it's "harder" to make power.

At the end of the day -- there is NO "road not traveled" anymore in N/A Honda performance. It's all been done before.


My question for the second group of people. You want to go fast, right. So why not just go fast?

Not every1 wants to go "fast". Think about what you just said. A 75 - 100 shot on a STOCK GSR would RAPE you Dare and the sleeves will last twice as long. If you wanted to "go fast" you'd do that and laugh at the guys ordering cams and throttle bodies. To take time out of your day trying to get into some1 else's psychy is a waste of effort. Build what you want --- then they will build what they want. That's how I see it. When I was green I built whatever every1 was building... made a name for myself and had to time to get into the scene, build shit - break shit - get out of it - and then get back into it. As a mature/seasoned builder I now build what I want.


What's the point of being "different"?

I can't speak for any1 but me... but in my case it has less to do w/ being "different" and more to do with building what you want to build and not giving a shit who "accepts" or "likes" it. It has to do with tapping parts of my creativity that haven't been tapped yet. (for this same reason I will only build 1 more Honda then I'll step away from the brand altogether - then it's off to my Mazda). NOT to be "diff" and build an N/A Mazda - but b/c it's what I want to build and I can start from ground 1 learning all the shit that it's taken me years to learn about Honda/Acura - all of a sudden switching it up makes it interesting for me again. Without that - I'd hang it up and be done with it years ago.


Also, is it really being different if there's a cult of people doing the same thing your doing (such as building LS motors or d16s)?

There is a CULT of people doing EVERYTHING that you can name. There is NO1 with a built Honda that is "different", regardless of the block code and stamp on the head.

I couldn't give 2 shits about what some2 else is building (I do offer my advice so they don't make mistakes that I have made - but I leave it at that if they don't want to accept it). And the reason why I don't care/worry about what some1 else is building is b/c I don't have tits or wear panties.

[r.etheridge]

Here is where you miss it. The "be different" people aren't neccessarily looking for "power". They are looking for "power out of THEIR setup". Take you and putting OEM parts in that b16 - LOL. It took you 12 miles to come around my STOCK LS in the wagon from a 60 roll - imagine had we went from the dig - GAME OVER... and you made 40 more HP. I could laugh at you (again) or I could say "hey - that's my dude and that's what he wants to build". Didn't set any world records but it's what you wanted to do so roll with it. It's a simple mind that thinks "oh, I make more power than him so I win." If you think of it as a pissing contest then you will never understand some1 that wants to build something "less popular" or something where it's "harder" to make power.

At the end of the day -- there is NO "road not traveled" anymore in N/A Honda performance. It's all been done before.



Not every1 wants to go "fast". Think about what you just said. A 75 - 100 shot on a STOCK GSR would RAPE you Dare and the sleeves will last twice as long. If you wanted to "go fast" you'd do that and laugh at the guys ordering cams and throttle bodies. To take time out of your day trying to get into some1 else's psychy is a waste of effort. Build what you want --- then they will build what they want. That's how I see it. When I was green I built whatever every1 was building... made a name for myself and had to time to get into the scene, build shit - break shit - get out of it - and then get back into it. As a mature/seasoned builder I now build what I want.



I can't speak for any1 but me... but in my case it has less to do w/ being "different" and more to do with building what you want to build and not giving a shit who "accepts" or "likes" it. It has to do with tapping parts of my creativity that haven't been tapped yet. (for this same reason I will only build 1 more Honda then I'll step away from the brand altogether - then it's off to my Mazda). NOT to be "diff" and build an N/A Mazda - but b/c it's what I want to build and I can start from ground 1 learning all the shit that it's taken me years to learn about Honda/Acura - all of a sudden switching it up makes it interesting for me again. Without that - I'd hang it up and be done with it years ago.



There is a CULT of people doing EVERYTHING that you can name. There is NO1 with a built Honda that is "different", regardless of the block code and stamp on the head.

I couldn't give 2 shits about what some2 else is building (I do offer my advice so they don't make mistakes that I have made - but I leave it at that if they don't want to accept it). And the reason why I don't care/worry about what some1 else is building is b/c I don't have tits or wear panties.
Damn!

[BABY J]

Damn!

^^ I don't understand where the "damn" comes from or why it's there. My reply wasn't confrontational or coy - me and Dare go way back and that's just how I talk/type.

Welcome to IA whoever you are.

[r.etheridge]

Im with baby j on this one, build what you want, if it doesnt turn out the way you wanted it to or you dont get the gains you were going for, then try again. Atleast you can say that you built it exactly the way you wanted it. Also, have an idea of what your going for ( hp, tq, top speed, 1/4 mile) and do the research so that you wont sink a ton of $$ into something you thought would be fast but turned out not to be ( like I did). I used to build 5.0 race engines for mustangs and was pretty good at them. I got bored and in 2000, starting trying to build a JDM B16A using the knowledge that I had from building v8's. I quickly learned that 1, you cant think like your building a v8 on a 4cy. engine(bigger is not always better) and 2, it costs three times as much, back in 2000. I never finished the engine but thats another story in itself. My point is, I built what I thought would be fast and went off what information was out there about building a high performance honda motor and it was exactly what I wanted even though its not fast or would have made hp at all. Import performance parts have come a long way the past 10 years!

[Vteckidd]

yEah but babyj didn't build a na motor. He built a well rounded na engine to handle forced induction.

And no offense to babyj and I don't know the details of his build but I wouldn't classify his as "different". Maybe it's different in that it's reliable and uses good parts and was built well lol. But an na ls is hardly "different".

Different to me is an NA d series or a g23 or a k20 with s2k pistons or something else that is stupid haha

kiss= keep it simple stupid

[BABY J]

^^

That is just ME. I can't speak for any1 else on this topic - I assume that they will have different answers obviously. My last build (well, the last one that is on the street) was built for a SPECIFIC application - nitrous, and lots of it. ALSO - RELIABILITY --- and even knowing that Charles still wants to put a small turbo on it - LOL... silly man.

If I was going for all out power my LS wouldn't be 11.6 CR - it'd be 12.5 (and still capable of a big shot --- nitrous loves compression). I built something that is VERSATILE... I can slap a GSR head on it and some cams if I wanted a dyno queen or something that makes more power. I'm sure that most people know that trick heads is something that my wallet can handle. That's simply NOT what I had in mind this time... and come March if the stars align every1 will see the finished product turned all the way up and on a tire (thanx in part to Mr. Hinds). THIS particular build is a nitrous build - PERIOD... that's what I said out of the gate and I didn't get swayed by the many people around me making "more" power.

And just so the cats outta the bag - what's going in my new captiva blue shell is a high compression D series - and I'll piss that away by adding AC, some heavy 16s and all the amenities that a commuter car should have. I'm so gay. :) And I'll STILL appreciate all the many different accomplishemnts that my friends and colleagues are doing, even if it's above and beyond what I am doing. I am JUST as excited as getting my new shit out as I am watching other people's success.

[Vteckidd]

Sohc D series is gay :p

[BABY J]

yEah but babyj didn't build a na motor. He built a well rounded na engine to handle forced induction.

And no offense to babyj and I don't know the details of his build but I wouldn't classify his as "different". Maybe it's different in that it's reliable and uses good parts and was built well lol. But an na ls is hardly "different".

Different to me is an NA d series or a g23 or a k20 with s2k pistons or something else that is stupid haha

kiss= keep it simple stupid

There is nothing "diff" or strange about my setup - other than the GSR crank and custom length rod in a B18B block. The rest is textbook run of the mill stuff - small cams (403s) on stock cam gears (0,0). Compression isn't "too" crazy - pump-gas daily driver w/out VTEC. Nothing weird in my opinion. I've posted the setup on many forums - nothing to hide.

[BABY J]

Sohc D series is gay :p


Yeah - but I'm using a Toyota crank and Ford pistons... Lambo intake mani and a reworked Mitsu computer w/ Evo drivetrain.

[Vteckidd]

Yeah - but I'm using a Toyota crank and Ford pistons... Lambo intake mani and a reworked Mitsu computer w/ Evo drivetrain.

Different, yet still gay

What do I know though I built a b18c5 with a jrsc and I was "the king of the streets" ;)

[BABY J]

I hate that we didn't get to play before it was dismantled and shipped to Japan :ninja:

[slow_hatch]

Either way, if you'd take all the money you put into building your NA motor, you could have left it stock & boosted if for MUCH less and made MORE power ;)

[bigdare23]

Here is where you miss it. The "be different" people aren't neccessarily looking for "power". They are looking for "power out of THEIR setup". Take you and putting OEM parts in that b16 - LOL. It took you 12 miles to come around my STOCK LS in the wagon from a 60 roll - imagine had we went from the dig - GAME OVER... and you made 40 more HP. I could laugh at you (again) or I could say "hey - that's my dude and that's what he wants to build". Didn't set any world records but it's what you wanted to do so roll with it. It's a simple mind that thinks "oh, I make more power than him so I win." If you think of it as a pissing contest then you will never understand some1 that wants to build something "less popular" or something where it's "harder" to make power.

At the end of the day -- there is NO "road not traveled" anymore in N/A Honda performance. It's all been done before.



Not every1 wants to go "fast". Think about what you just said. A 75 - 100 shot on a STOCK GSR would RAPE you Dare and the sleeves will last twice as long. If you wanted to "go fast" you'd do that and laugh at the guys ordering cams and throttle bodies. To take time out of your day trying to get into some1 else's psychy is a waste of effort. Build what you want --- then they will build what they want. That's how I see it. When I was green I built whatever every1 was building... made a name for myself and had to time to get into the scene, build shit - break shit - get out of it - and then get back into it. As a mature/seasoned builder I now build what I want.



I can't speak for any1 but me... but in my case it has less to do w/ being "different" and more to do with building what you want to build and not giving a shit who "accepts" or "likes" it. It has to do with tapping parts of my creativity that haven't been tapped yet. (for this same reason I will only build 1 more Honda then I'll step away from the brand altogether - then it's off to my Mazda). NOT to be "diff" and build an N/A Mazda - but b/c it's what I want to build and I can start from ground 1 learning all the shit that it's taken me years to learn about Honda/Acura - all of a sudden switching it up makes it interesting for me again. Without that - I'd hang it up and be done with it years ago.



There is a CULT of people doing EVERYTHING that you can name. There is NO1 with a built Honda that is "different", regardless of the block code and stamp on the head.

I couldn't give 2 shits about what some2 else is building (I do offer my advice so they don't make mistakes that I have made - but I leave it at that if they don't want to accept it). And the reason why I don't care/worry about what some1 else is building is b/c I don't have tits or wear panties.


Only 556 words, I was expecting more than that from ya Mr. Vtec Killer. I'll respond back once I get some rest. :goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

Either way, if you'd take all the money you put into building your NA motor, you could have left it stock & boosted if for MUCH less and made MORE power ;)

skunk2s 330whp na rsx runs 9.6s, matt Keller ran 9.4 with 1000whp turbo

250whp crx runs 11.5-11.6s , almost no turbo car runs that fast with that little power.

Turbo is cheaper to achieve higher power numbers IN general. And it takes no skill

[Andr3w]

I drive an auto swapped to 6 speed manual SE-R. That is different enough for me. lol

[DVSRX-7]

I think this topic will make a good discussion :D


When it comes to natural aspiration Honda people I notice there is two groups of people, people who wants to make power. Then there's people who wants to make power and be "different". My question for the second group of people. You want to go fast, right. So why not just go fast? What's the point of being "different"? Also, is it really being different if there's a cult of people doing the same thing your doing (such as building LS motors or d16s)?


Discuss.


(Also, this is not a shot at SOHC and nonVTEC guys. I'm just trying to see your thought process. :goodjob:)




When I read this all I thought about was Hunda, Hunda, Hunda!

Being different isn't just about making power with engine swaps, it also has to do with aerodynamics and power to weight ratio. Hunda people just swap in a engine or "build" a engine and swap it in the same chassis and then think they are faster for some reason, yet some of them are. Even though most Hunda's look like the other one next to them, they mostly have no "attitude", "style", "character" why? CAUSE THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME.

Now being different is when you swap a fucking Cummings Diesel engine into a S2000, Supra, RX-7 etc.. You get the point. That is being different to me, having the balls to pave your own road and have people follow you and try new things like you and using your car aftermarket "aerodynamic" support to help with the function of the car and seperate yourself from the rest. NOW THATS BEING DIFFERENT. Trying something no one else would.

That's just my opinion on being "different". :yes:

[BABY J]

Either way, if you'd take all the money you put into building your NA motor, you could have left it stock & boosted if for MUCH less and made MORE power ;)

SMH

You don't get this discussion at all do you? Start your own thread if you want to change the topic - LOL


Only 556 words, I was expecting more than that from ya Mr. Vtec Killer. I'll respond back once I get some rest.

I'm not sure what to say. I can only speak for me - I can't defend the reasons why other people build "different" or "less popular" setups. I'll try my best to answer any q's you may have though man... although I think if you take yourself back to when you were modding the B16 you will get it. You were surrounded by many seasoned guys that have repeatedly said "b16s suck" yet you stuck with it. THAT is building what you want - and that's what I was trying to describe.

[cprtyler]

i just wanna say iv had built b16 and now im building a ls na with an even more unpopular ls tranny but you know i my not run 10 sec drags or keep up with anyone with a b16 then again i may outrun them im doing this "different" build. im doing this 4 me no one else, my thoughts are we as tuners are artist we have a portrat and we paint it, just because he has a body kit and built d series and i have lip kit and roof rack and built ls and other guy has a set if 15" wheels thats offset was huge with built b16 we do it for us no one else just our selfs. some ppl hate and some give u mad props who care build for u not the other guy. if u want to do s2k pistons in a b16 do it, if u want b series pistons in a d do it, if u wanna build a g23 do it, who cares its ur build, ur money, but listen to advice on builds then choose what to do but remember build for u thats what i say.

[ejohnson88]

IMHO "Being Different" Seems to come out to mean being cheaper around here... But that's all fine and good.. Just makes my setup look better haha.

[Drummerboy]

I can only speak for myself. And granted, I'm not all motor, but I would consider my set up different. I love the idea that no one has the exact setup I do. And in the Atlanta area, theres no F22 Preludes using anything other than ebay turbos besides me. and EVEN THEN, theres only 1 other I know of around.

And my reasoning for boosted my F and not H swapping was because the low compression in the F22 is the lowest that IIIII know of from Honda, which is great for boost as you know. Can't beat 8.8:1 compression from the get-go.

And lastly, The popular response "work with what you've got" reigns true for me. My car was a stock F22, and I realize making over a certain amount of HP in a FWD car won't do much besides go threw tires. On the streets that is. So After college Its 335i/G37S/Camaro SS/370Z

[Vteckidd]

Money doesn't = making power either

It's a balance between the right parts, budget, and frankly luck

there's nothing wrong with being on a budget. Don't confuse thrifty with cutting corners

[Supraboy87T]

I can only speak for myself. And granted, I'm not all motor, but I would consider my set up different. I love the idea that no one has the exact setup I do. And in the Atlanta area, theres no F22 Preludes using anything other than ebay turbos besides me. and EVEN THEN, theres only 1 other I know of around.

And my reasoning for boosted my F and not H swapping was because the low compression in the F22 is the lowest that IIIII know of from Honda, which is great for boost as you know. Can't beat 8.8:1 compression from the get-go.

And lastly, The popular response "work with what you've got" reigns true for me. My car was a stock F22, and I realize making over a certain amount of HP in a FWD car won't do much besides go threw tires. On the streets that is. So After college Its 335i/G37S/Camaro SS/370Z

My thoughts exactly. Work with what you got. As for the comment on the fwd cars making power past a certain point goes through tires, that's kind of another rason why I dont wanna go boost on my D-series. Plus after college when I make better money I'll buy something a little more fun to play with right now I just wanna make my single cam hit the mark I'm looking for then the same goes for the supra.

[BABY J]

Money doesn't = making power either

It's a balance between the right parts, budget, and frankly luck

there's nothing wrong with being on a budget. Don't confuse thrifty with cutting corners

Very well said.

[ejohnson88]

Well like I said... around here... Cutting corners tends to be the trend :P At least from what I have seen from a good few people.

[h22 jones]

Well it realy just boils down to what you want simple as that. All i can say is try to get the most out of what ever you decide to go with and have fun doing it. Everybodys budget is not the same and everybody does not have the connections me and people like vtec kidd have which make it harder or more exspensive to build defferent setups.

I have bought everything to build my next project which would be a 93 cx turboed h22 hatch well everybody knows me and my dad already have a stout all motor hatch that is very capable of being serious but he drives it everyday and we like it the way it is. I decided i dont have the time or the funds to run with spoolin or jj spec so im selling everything and changing to a allmotor build cause i beleive i can put 280 to the wheels all motor and be competitive were i dont feel like i will in the turbo class.Everybody has a different reason for what they do.

I could tell you 20 things different in the motor in the 252 hp motor which works for us to make great power .Were other people have said thats stupid i would have just bought this or did that but we have pride in knowing we built it with these perticular parts and it turned out like this simple as that .

Everybody has a best friend or rival that they want to go faster than and thats what they normaly build there car for .Doesnt have to be the fastest just faster than theres lol.

[Drummerboy]

.
Everybody has a best friend or rival that they want to go faster than and thats what they normaly build there car for .Doesnt have to be the fastest just faster than theres lol.

Thats actually a good point. In my mind, as long as I'm faster than Tdurr, Tree, Roche and Stillaneon, I'm happy. haha.

[h22 jones]

lol yea ther is always somebody. I have a small goal to we will see how it turns out.