Sleeved Blocks...B series HawnDUH..?

[teh_mugen18]

Now after reading some other people's postings of experiences, and information :blah:, i am now knowing which route to take in building my next engine.

Now, for some time I've been going back and forth skimming around different websites for companies that sleeve blocks and do the assembly, etc. As far as I know, there's a few ''big'' companies that do it:

-Golden Eagle
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=1&chapter=0

-Darton
http://www.dartonsleeves.com/we_install.htm

-JG Engine Dynamics
http://www.jgenginedynamics.com/Shortblocks_JGE_Bseries.html

Now, of course... im sure, whoever you are that's reading this and has been reading my other thread(s), probably saw this coming; Which company seems like it would offer the "best" service, and which one seems like it would in the long run be "most worth" using in a street/strip Daily driver type boosted Honda?
And when i say "long run", i mean, an engine that will last for WAY more than 1k, 5k, or 10k miles... :goodjob:

[Slomaro Z28]

I say Golden Eagle, because of their long time reputation.

[gforce71]

yea, golden eagle. my block is warrantied up to like 1000 hp I believe...

[.:Stirfry:.]

i'd stick with stock sleeves unless your planning on making like 600+

[.:Stirfry:.]

theres a guy down here makin 500 plus on stock sleeves runnin high 10s low 11s in a white civic HB and he had the same motor in that car for like 2yrs. still runs strong.
boostin a avg of like 26+ psi every time down the track.

and the guys weighs like 300 plus lol.

[gforce71]

i'd stick with stock sleeves unless your planning on making like 600+

most bseries blocks are only reliable on the stock sleeves up to around 300hp. I know people running more and are fine for now, and some people running less that have blown there shit up. it comes down to the tune pretty much.

[B18c1Turboed]

AEBS o ringed!!!!
We made 680 0n stock sleeves.

[SPOOLIN]

Golden Eagle, Done.

And dont give me "stock sleeves unless you are going 600hp +"
I did that shit for several years and though i got lucky, i've seen so many that have not been lucky with the 400's. Stock sleeves can blow at 300hp if they want to. Just get the damn sleeves and save yourself a lot of fucking future head ache, ITS WORTH IT.

[BABY J]

I have the JGE Magillas - I've also had Benson in the past. I steer clear of Darton. Another player is my friends in Indiana: http://www.erlperformance.com/home-page

[Da_unknown]

golden eagle.. thats what i have

[SPOOLIN]

yeah darton FMFL

[jnv255]

theres a guy down here makin 500 plus on stock sleeves runnin high 10s low 11s in a white civic HB and he had the same motor in that car for like 2yrs. still runs strong.
boostin a avg of like 26+ psi every time down the track.

and the guys weighs like 300 plus lol.

That would be Tye, lol... ( heavyduty )

Golden Eagle here (H series)

[japan4racing]

unfortunately i never got to run the motor but i got laskey racing to build a motor for me..benson sleeves seemed to win me over...darton makes the sleeve for benson. like i said i never got to run it but the guy i sold it to made good power and loves the block. im sure they all make good sleeves...ive never heard anything bad about golden eagle....just do some research and educate yourelf on the product.

[SPOOLIN]

unfortunately i never got to run the motor but i got laskey racing to build a motor for me..benson sleeves seemed to win me over...darton makes the sleeve for benson. like i said i never got to run it but the guy i sold it to made good power and loves the block. im sure they all make good sleeves...ive never heard anything bad about golden eagle....just do some research and educate yourelf on the product.

let me clarify

DARTON MODULAR INTEGRATED DECK SLEEVES ARE SHIT. THEY ARE THE HONDA VERSION OF TOP FUEL DRAGSTER SLEEVES. TOP FUEL DRAGSTER ENGINES ARE PUT TOGETHER TO SPECS THAT WOULD MAKE ENGINE BUILDERS CRINGE FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.

[JDMJAYDC2]

http://www.z10eng.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=6784666c29da15189351b26e089d5b89


nice prices here

[Formally...]

I've always had good luck with Golden Eagle. Good guys to work with. And as some have said before, each motor with stock sleeves will break at different power levels. There are a lot of different reasons a sleeve breaks. Sometimes the tune, sometimes the build itself, and sometimes just bad luck (injector go bad, bad gas, low oil, etc). Good luck.

[all-mota]

golden eagle here


the only downfall is sometimes you send in a good block and they keep it as a core and send you another one they had in stock already sleeved, but when you go to put it together alot of the holes are stripped out like the tranny bolt holes and motor mount holes etc. so if you have a nice block they tell them to sleeve it it just takes slightly longer

[teh_mugen18]

let me clarify

DARTON MODULAR INTEGRATED DECK SLEEVES ARE SHIT. THEY ARE THE HONDA VERSION OF TOP FUEL DRAGSTER SLEEVES. TOP FUEL DRAGSTER ENGINES ARE PUT TOGETHER TO SPECS THAT WOULD MAKE ENGINE BUILDERS CRINGE FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.


What do you mean by that, INSANELY tight clearances inside or something?:thinking:

Lol, only made to make one pass down the quartermile, and then off to be fully torn down and re-built again? :???:

[jfman]

most bseries blocks are only reliable on the stock sleeves up to around 300hp. I know people running more and are fine for now, and some people running less that have blown there shit up. it comes down to the tune pretty much.


TRUE I have seen an LS block crack a sleeve wide open with only ~12psi ~220whp

[SPOOLIN]

What do you mean by that, INSANELY tight clearances inside or something?:thinking:

Lol, only made to make one pass down the quartermile, and then off to be fully torn down and re-built again? :???:

Very loose, they just pop a sleeve out and throw another in if its scratched up right there on the spot. They tear them down every single pass...ring gaps? FORGET ABOUT IT lol.

They are made to run for 1000 Revolutions from burnout to finish line and thats it

[BABY J]

Matt beat me to the clarification of why I said "I steer clear of Darton". MIDs are crap. Darton tried to come back and say the 2nd gen MIDs didn't sink - BULLSHIT - maybe they are living on a different planet than ummm - Earth.

Darton does MANUFACTURE the sleeves for Benson - but they are BENSON design specs. The proprietary Darton sleeve is/was the MID - and MID is Swahilli for "crap". :)

[SPOOLIN]

lol

[teh_mugen18]

Now i see no one has really answered much about the JG Engine dynamics blocks...?

Idk, i read some random answer on a Yahoo Answers posting where someone was asking about boosted LSVTECs, etc. how they hold up, and the person who answered stated he had a B18b bottom end built by JGE and its held up over 20k miles, daily driven on 400whp and tracked at 600whp. lol. idk if this sounds plausable or not but if its true and most/all their products are built to last like this, then JG must make some good stuff!


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080623144531AAcsPCk

[BABY J]

Any idiot can break something. A perfect block can be destroyed in seconds in the wrong hands.

There is not an engine builder I know who has a 100% success-rate. You get to become a reputable builder by tearing shit up and then doing it better the next time. That's why manufacturers/builders love for people to send hurt products back to them (it's not bc they want to play hardball with you) so they can get data and revamp their products/process if needed.

I have never had a JGE block warp - or a JGE sleeve fail - but there are many examples of those who have. For every manufacturer you praise I can find examples of where they have fucked up.

Make sure you do your homework, research, and then pick a tuner who knows what he is doing. After that KEEP UP WITH THE MAINTENANCE and project should last a long time.

[japan4racing]

Matt beat me to the clarification of why I said "I steer clear of Darton". MIDs are crap. Darton tried to come back and say the 2nd gen MIDs didn't sink - BULLSHIT - maybe they are living on a different planet than ummm - Earth.

Darton does MANUFACTURE the sleeves for Benson - but they are BENSON design specs. The proprietary Darton sleeve is/was the MID - and MID is Swahilli for "crap". :)

yea dart just makes the sleeves..the difference as described to me by mike laskey are that benson machines the whole oem sleeve out of the block and the new sleeve sits directly on the block if that makes sense. in other words alot of sleeves sit on the old sleeve after the machine work is done. for the benson sleeve to sink you would have to experience a major failure with the block itself.

like was stated earlier anything can be broken....i know plenty of guys that have ran golden eagle and love them and a ton of folks run the laskey/benson blocks. just do some homework get educated and purchase what you feel is good.

i can tell you what not to do..dont buy some random sleeves, go to some random machine shop and hope for good results...i had a freind go that route with KMS. #2 and #3 sank and both had cracks from top to bottom with less than 100 miles on the motor.

[teh_mugen18]

Any idiot can break something. A perfect block can be destroyed in seconds in the wrong hands.

There is not an engine builder I know who has a 100% success-rate. You get to become a reputable builder by tearing shit up and then doing it better the next time. That's why manufacturers/builders love for people to send hurt products back to them (it's not bc they want to play hardball with you) so they can get data and revamp their products/process if needed.

I have never had a JGE block warp - or a JGE sleeve fail - but there are many examples of those who have. For every manufacturer you praise I can find examples of where they have fucked up.

Make sure you do your homework, research, and then pick a tuner who knows what he is doing. After that KEEP UP WITH THE MAINTENANCE and project should last a long time.


Well, block warpage is usually due to overheating the engine, right?

And sleeve failure, is usually due to overly lean conditions internally, right?

What engine did you end up building based on the JGE block(s)?
Lol, sorry bout all the questions, im trying to get info from people who already have some experience with this stuff before i dive in and put my $$ in the wrong places, calling myself "learning". :cheers:

[BABY J]

This JG block is for all-motor duties. It is about 170hp non-vtgec and has a few hundred 125 shot nitrous pulls. :Lol: This season it will see bigger cams (degreed this time, unlike currently) and a 200 shot - I do not suspect that it will implode anytime soon but I'll try my best to hurt it. :)

You don't neccesarily need heat to warp a block - some blocks ARRIVE destined to be warped due to improper machining. There are lots of things your machine shop can do wrong to set you on a course for hurting a "bullet-proof" block... and then there are lots of things your engine builder can do to hurt lesser parts (i.e bearings). If you make it this far unscathed - there are lots of things YOU can do after that to hurt all of the above - LOL

[teh_mugen18]

haa, so basically it sounds to me like i need to have nothing but careful people all around who won't hurt my engine.

from the machine shop, to the builder, to the tuner, to the driver/owner lol.


**and i just read some experiences about JGE, on H-T from like 2002 that they have really bad service and might try to screw customers out of their money. :dunno: Things may be wayyy different now? (8years later...)
I may just have to go with Golden Eagle on this one lol.

[BABY J]

Go with whatever you feel comfortable with :) But Charles and any other shop owner will tell you this: there are 2 sides to every internet "rant" that you see against a shop/builder/company. Keep that in mind - you have been given a lot of useful info in this thread. Good luck man!!!!!

[japan4racing]

as far as bad info you heard from jge.....you gotta take that shit with a grain of salt. think of how many ppl have purchased their product...you gonna let a small handfull of negative coments sway your decision? think of it this way: you lift weights all your life and no one calls you a body builder but suck one dick and your a homo...just sayin!