Turbo or NA?

[Bishop]

Well i have decided to either build the engine or boost my teg. If i boost it, it will be at or around 6psi. It is my daily driver. During the week i dont drive that far but on weekends i drive 60 miles to kennesaw and then 60 miles back. Which should i do?

[Jon00]

turbo bitch hit me up about the wide body bitch and front end

[99SI]

How many miles are on your car? What engine do you have? Has the engine been rebuilt? Well maintained? Burn oil? I am asking b/c you may want to do a rebuild w/ a few NA parts and get a good baseline to do a solid turbo build in the future. It's really a matter of your taste. It doesn't sound like you want to be a street racer, drag racer, serious autocrosser, or anything like that, so just think about what would make you happier. Simple as that.

[Stormhammer]

N/A - smoother power curve

and 6psi isnt much so theres more gains for n/a

if I really had a choice, I'd want my car to actually be n/a... but then it wouldnt be where it is - but if I had the choice of the same HP #s but turbo or n/a - I'd go N/A... plus they just sound nice IMO

[D16Civic]

^and cost a lot more to make the same amount of power

[TranceDJ06]

Well i have decided to either build the engine or boost my teg. If i boost it, it will be at or around 6psi. It is my daily driver. During the week i dont drive that far but on weekends i drive 60 miles to kennesaw and then 60 miles back. Which should i do?


:nx:

[Bishop]

turbo bitch hit me up about the wide body bitch and front end
Fucker, i called you a few times and aparently your mom has your phone or something (went straight to voice mail)...i have sent you about 5 pm's about it and you have yet to respond! I figured i would just give up on it and just get a turbo.

[Spyder]

Dollar for dollar a turbo car will be faster. If you want to build a NA honda there are a few people here that can help you.. Wanna build a turbo car? there are others that can help you.. just different people. Personally i am about geting the maximum for my dollar spent. Turbo is the way to go.

[TranceDJ06]

screw waisting your money..get nos! real tuners usin this shit..biootch

[Spyder]

screw waisting your money..get nos! real tuners usin this shit..biootch

Nitrous adds great horse power for short periods of time, and once your bottle is empty, you are out of added power.

[Bishop]

How many miles are on your car? What engine do you have? Has the engine been rebuilt? Well maintained? Burn oil? I am asking b/c you may want to do a rebuild w/ a few NA parts and get a good baseline to do a solid turbo build in the future. It's really a matter of your taste. It doesn't sound like you want to be a street racer, drag racer, serious autocrosser, or anything like that, so just think about what would make you happier. Simple as that.
I have just under 95k on my b18. Never been rebuilt. Change the oil every 3k miles or 3 months, just flushed the radiator a month or 2 ago. Doesnt burn oil. Everything is stock except the short ram intake. I def. dont wanna race it. Auto x and fun in the twisties, yes. I have eibach sportline springs and koni yellow ext. adjustable shocks. Im thinking of maybe a smaller turbo pushing 6 or alittle more psi. Thinking of something that will spool up quicker. Im afraid to go NA because of reliability since its my DD. But since i drive to kennesaw nearly every week, how bad would a turbo be on gas compared to NA?

[BTEC]

...But since i drive to kennesaw nearly every week, how bad would a turbo be on gas compared to NA?
i c u want to go n/a from this question. if ur concerned about gas then leave ur car alone bc with more power comes more fuel whether it be n/a or turbo. ur concern should be something like what tuner will get all the power possible out of the fuel used when tuning ur car.

[Bishop]

^not really that concerned, but just curious. Thanks

[00dynogsr]

turbo

[BTEC]

^not really that concerned, but just curious. Thanks
well in that case hmmm. my car is, i mean i know somebody who has a boosted car and its pretty cool. i like the scream of a na car too though. the pull of a boosted car gives some ppl woodys and of cousre the famous BOV noise everybody and their grandma wants. so to make a lng story short BOOST IT!!!

[Stormhammer]

well for AutoX N/A is pretty good - or like you said, a small turbo ( like a T3? ) so quick spool times and it being more "stable" on the power curve - plus the power is pretty much instantly there as soon as your coming out of the turn - but since its 6psi - its really up to you. I'm for either or

[99SI]

I have just under 95k on my b18. Never been rebuilt. Change the oil every 3k miles or 3 months, just flushed the radiator a month or 2 ago. Doesnt burn oil. Everything is stock except the short ram intake. I def. dont wanna race it. Auto x and fun in the twisties, yes. I have eibach sportline springs and koni yellow ext. adjustable shocks. Im thinking of maybe a smaller turbo pushing 6 or alittle more psi. Thinking of something that will spool up quicker. Im afraid to go NA because of reliability since its my DD. But since i drive to kennesaw nearly every week, how bad would a turbo be on gas compared to NA?
You've seen my car before and heard it. I started w/ a b16 so revs are my friend. I can't remember, is your car a GSR? Just wondering if you are vtec or not. If it's GSR you can get a RM valvetrain kit from Vteckidd w/ cams, double valve springs, and ti retainers for around $899. Spring for some good Omnipower flat face valves @ about $250. OBD1 w/ uberdata to tune and to raise the rev limit and you can run that very reliably and make some good power. I drive my car every day and my commute is 110 miles round trip! I lay in it every chance I get too! lol. I still get around 28 MPG average and I really do run it hard. I'm running at 11:1 CR the RM cams/valvetrain, omnipower valves, AEBS manifold, JDM DC header w/ 2.5 inch collector, obd2-obd1 conversion chipped to tune with uberdata, and that's about it right now. We did take my car all the way down and use ARP rod bolts, full race main bearings, balanced and blue printed the bottom end, stock pistons w/ a .025 over bore, cp rings, and shaved the head a bit. That gave me a nice platform to start from and be able to handle the revs. I love my build, I'll love it even more when I get my rocket motorsports port and polish and my RMF b16 header! Like I said before, it's really what you like best. A low boost turbo will make you some power and as long as you have a properly sized turbo and a good manifold you can spool quickly and not have bad traction issues. I just love my NA, it's a challenge, not nearly as many people running around w/ 175 whp b16's that are NA as there are bolt on turbo kitted cars.

[Spyder]

Dont worry about gas mileage, a turbo will give you the same gas mileage as a factory car. unless you beat on it, in which case it uses the hell out of fuel.. remember with a turbo isnt always on boost. If you are planning to run a turbo that is small as hell just got get to the 6psi range and dont care about future ugradability and power out put then a small cheap turbo will work, with such minimal lag you wont even know its there..

[Spyder]

You've seen my car before and heard it. I started w/ a b16 so revs are my friend. I can't remember, is your car a GSR? Just wondering if you are vtec or not. If it's GSR you can get a RM valvetrain kit from Vteckidd w/ cams, double valve springs, and ti retainers for around $899. Spring for some good Omnipower flat face valves @ about $250. OBD1 w/ uberdata to tune and to raise the rev limit and you can run that very reliably and make some good power. I drive my car every day and my commute is 110 miles round trip! I lay in it every chance I get too! lol. I still get around 28 MPG average and I really do run it hard. I'm running at 11:1 CR the RM cams/valvetrain, omnipower valves, AEBS manifold, JDM DC header w/ 2.5 inch collector, obd2-obd1 conversion chipped to tune with uberdata, and that's about it right now. We did take my car all the way down and use ARP rod bolts, full race main bearings, balanced and blue printed the bottom end, stock pistons w/ a .025 over bore, cp rings, and shaved the head a bit. That gave me a nice platform to start from and be able to handle the revs. I love my build, I'll love it even more when I get my rocket motorsports port and polish and my RMF b16 header! Like I said before, it's really what you like best. A low boost turbo will make you some power and as long as you have a properly sized turbo and a good manifold you can spool quickly and not have bad traction issues. I just love my NA, it's a challenge, not nearly as many people running around w/ 175 whp b16's that are NA as there are bolt on turbo kitted cars.
How much money do you have in that 175 whp car? Also.. alot of people dont like pulling apart a perfectly good running motor, they dont have the skills or the knowledge, tools or space to do it. A turbo kit can be installed in a day. The machine work and everything else that is involved with what you have done would take atleast a few days,even with a skilled mechanic.

[Vteckidd]

you guys are comparing apples an oranges.
my .02:

99SIs car would not have been totally rebuilt, had his motor not been burning oil already. it was consuming, and we figured it would be best to freshen it up and while we were doing taht , we knew it would see lots of RPM so we went ahead and balanced and blueprinted the motor, and installed ARP rod bolts (extra insurance).

Having said that, NA vs Turbo will always be a debate. NA costs less money or equal to a Turbo build , but it will make less power. it depends what you are looking for.

heres what i mean:
A custom turbo kit from us would run $3500 installed. It would give you roughyl 210-220whp at 9psi. (dynos to prove it) and around 180-190TQ.

For $3500, you cant make 160whp on an LS if you went NA. if you went LSVTEC, it would still only be 170-180whp AT THE MOST and that would be pushing the limits of your budget.

which car is faster? well what if i told you the Boosted LS doesnt hit peak power until 5500 RPMs. but the NA car makes a strong Powercurve at 4000rpms?

Its all about building a WELL BALANCED car. with that in mind, what is your budget? it differs if you have $1000 and $3500 to spend.

if you had ROUGHLY $5000 to spend. i would do a turbo kit with a small turbo T25 or str8 T3. I would get a GOOD suspension and sway bars and clutch and flywheel. it would make for a great peppy car, and you would have gotten the suspension and clutch to handle the power.

Reason why i say dont go NA, is that i would hate to see you spend all the money on a motor that is peppy and fun, and neglect suspension, clutch, flywheel. For $5000 you could do a NA car, and it would be fun, but LS rods are weak when it comes to sustained high revs (you mentions auto-x and mountain runs) and it would take an engine build to really get the power, something you prob dont want to do with 95k miles on your motor.

if you want to do an NA car, i would actually reccomend selling your whole LS swap for a good price and buying a good GSR swap or ITR swap. much more relaible and much easier for an NA build.

[99SI]

How much money do you have in that 175 whp car? Also.. alot of people dont like pulling apart a perfectly good running motor, they dont have the skills or the knowledge, tools or space to do it. A turbo kit can be installed in a day. The machine work and everything else that is involved with what you have done would take atleast a few days,even with a skilled mechanic.
I wasn't trying to tell him which way to go, as I said, it's all what will make him happy. I spent a good deal of money, I won't go into specifics. I also put in a JDM ITR LSD and had my tranny taken down. I didn't mention the Competition Clutch Kevlar Carbonite clutch I put in. I was just trying to throw some info out there and maybe he would decide which way to go. As I said, I couldn't remember if he had a VTEC car or LS. BTW, Vteckidd, he has eibach springs and Koni Yellow shocks already for suspension upgrades. I simply wanted to give him some options. If his engine is an LS and he wants to stay stock, then boost 100%. If he wants to run a different engine, then NA is an option.

[Bishop]

Thank you all for your responses.

I have a LS..and i dont want to do a swap cause i dont have the money and its my daily driver.

Im thinking of getting a turbo kit off ebay and have turbo dave build piping and get a nice manifold. The reason i said 6psi is because i dont know how much is a safe amount on a car with that many miles.

99SI- I dont beleive i have ever heard your car or seen it. I dont even think i have met you? lol

I could rebuild my engine, did it in school, but i dont have the time or equipment.

[D16Civic]

personally, id say boost
i wouldnt go w/ a turbo kit off of ebay tho, u normally pay for what you get so ive heard, especially ssautochrome/xspower stuff, stay away from that stuff. But i guess ur getting turbo dave to do piping and manifold then u dont even need to buy a kit.

Id say find a nice straight t3, maybe a 60 trim for a LS motor, u could probably find a pretty good one on ebay. Id think that would probably get u pretty good spool up, not super fast, and be able to hold that power till redline. If you wanted something to spool up faster, maybe a 50 trim t3. I just bought one of those in awesome condition for $180 w/ shipping off ebay. Then id run around 9-10 psi, get a good tune using uberdata and ur motor will handle it no problem as long as ur motor is in pretty good condition, which 95k really isnt that much on a honda.

thats my :2cents:

[Bishop]

Thanks! Whats a good manifold to get? How much would turbo dave charge to make one? And where should i get piping for a good price? Anyone know how much turbo dave charges?

[scttydb411]

don't bother w/ ebay. go to charles at mainstream and he'll hook you up out the door w/ the best price and reliability for an entire kit installed and tuned.

btw...if you're motor has been taken care of the way you say you're in good shape for turbo. i've got over 106k on my boosted d-series and it's been boosted for 2.5years now.

[99SI]

Thank you all for your responses.

I have a LS..and i dont want to do a swap cause i dont have the money and its my daily driver.

Im thinking of getting a turbo kit off ebay and have turbo dave build piping and get a nice manifold. The reason i said 6psi is because i dont know how much is a safe amount on a car with that many miles.

99SI- I dont beleive i have ever heard your car or seen it. I dont even think i have met you? lol

I could rebuild my engine, did it in school, but i dont have the time or equipment.
If I'm not mistaken you came to mainstream to look at the wheels I had on my car for your brothers prelude. He was out of town at the beach or something and you came with your girlfriend. May not have been you but I could have sworn it was. Good luck with whatever you do anyway.

[Bishop]

If I'm not mistaken you came to mainstream to look at the wheels I had on my car for your brothers prelude. He was out of town at the beach or something and you came with your girlfriend. May not have been you but I could have sworn it was. Good luck with whatever you do anyway.
Ah yes that was me.

[99SI]

I knew I wasn't crazy!

[Bishop]

don't bother w/ ebay. go to charles at mainstream and he'll hook you up out the door w/ the best price and reliability for an entire kit installed and tuned.

btw...if you're motor has been taken care of the way you say you're in good shape for turbo. i've got over 106k on my boosted d-series and it's been boosted for 2.5years now.
I can install it. So i dont wanna pay someone else to do it. Maintream is about 2 and a half hours from me.

[99SI]

I really would talk to Mike and or Charles @ Mainstream, they know how to build a Honda, not just all motor. If you don't really have the budget to do everything at once, buy your parts as you go and get it done right. Hell, I spent about 6 months buying my parts and getting everything lined up before I took it to Mainstream. Plus, I know that you are pretty mechanically inclined. Charles can fab up pretty much anything you want so if you did most of the install then had them fab up what you need left and tune it you'll be very happy with what you get and what you will pay.

[99SI]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-TRUST-GREDDY-TD-025M-TURBO-TD-025-JAPAN_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ80087 97808

I don't really know a ton about specific turbos but this guy is a straight up seller. I do know that much. I got a JDM ITR LSD from him and I received it in less than a week! from Japan! Anyway, I have him in my favorite seller so I checked out what he had and found this. I know that it is a small turbo and might be something that would work for you. It's a JDM Trust Greddy TDO-25M Turbo w/ a 50 trim I believe.

[Bishop]

Yeah i was def. plannng on having them tune it. Would charles be able to make piping? I guess thats my best bet right now, buy pieces until i have everything.

Whats a average manifold i could get? Dont wanna anything too amazing or too cheap, just in the middle.

[99SI]

Not too sure, I think that Neukin is pretty much the shit as far as Honda turbo mani's go. When Mike gets on you can ask him and he'll be able to tell you the best to fit your budget. That's what I like about him, he'll tell you that you can get x part for x dollars but for your application y part for y dollars would be best. He won't try to sell you something just b/c it's more expensive. For instance, the AEBS manifold on my car is what he reccomended. I was ready to buy the skunk2 or Victor X intake mani and he told me to go with the AEBS which was about $150 cheaper.

[Bishop]

Ah alright. Yeah i know mike is very helpful at times. Im at my g/f's place and we gotta drive back to my place 2 hours round trip (sucks). SO i will be back on later. Thanks for your help man! Your civic was badass when i saw it a SRZ.

[99SI]

gracias senor. I've been helped quite a bit from some of the members of this site. I don't proclaim to have the wealth of knowledge that some do but I'm willing to help and put in my .02c when I can.

[D16Civic]

I don't really know a ton about specific turbos but this guy is a straight up seller. I do know that much. I got a JDM ITR LSD from him and I received it in less than a week! from Japan! Anyway, I have him in my favorite seller so I checked out what he had and found this. I know that it is a small turbo and might be something that would work for you. It's a JDM Trust Greddy TDO-25M Turbo w/ a 50 trim I believe.
I think that turbo would be way to small for an LS motor, it says it was being used on a little Cappuccino which has a pretty small motor.
Check out rockymtnturbo on ebay as well.

But yea, about the piping and such, talk to Charles. He can probably do log manifolds as well but here are a few other places i would look for a nice manifold. I've heard good things about all of them.

http://www.stealthmodeperformance.com/

http://www.krbfab.com/home.htm

http://www.lsdmotorsports.com/

[Bishop]

I want to be able to keep my a/c and p/s. I checked those links and they all said not designed for a/c compatability.

[scttydb411]

charles can fab piping for you and log manifolds can be made a/c compatible.

[Bishop]

How much would piping run?

[D16Civic]

my guess - $400-$450

[Bishop]

ah alright. I saw some kits on ebay for like half that.

[99SI]

Make sure you ask Charles, as D16 said, that figure is his guess.

[Vteckidd]

give us a call at the sho on tuesday and i can give you accurate price quotes.

Mike