Brown wins Massachusetts !

[Vteckidd]

By 7+ points. Pretty shocking.

Watching frank luntzs focus group there was 8 people that voted for Obama that switched to brown

The room was heavily democratic and more than half said they voted brown to send a message to Washington they weren't happy

one guy said his message was that a one party dominance was bad news which is pretty powerful stuff.

So is healthcare dead now?

[punkr6]

YES ! :goodjob:

[tony]

Healthcare reform is officially dead, which.. its not like it was to the benefit of the people anyway. I hope the President is paying attention.

[punkr6]

He's gonna try and ram healthcare passage now, harder then ever. I smell a revolution....

[japan4racing]

i love it! i turned on the tv and saw this news and literally yelled hell yea out loud!

[tony]

He can't, its no longer filibuster proof.. the next move will certainly be interesting though for someone who follows politics. Having followed Obama for a while now this situation is his element whether you like him or not the man is strategically smart. He could take the route Clinton did in 93 or who can try something different, I guess we will see eventually.

As I stated earlier though, Republicans need to be weary of what they ask for.

[BanginJimmy]

He can't, its no longer filibuster proof.. the next move will certainly be interesting though for someone who follows politics. Having followed Obama for a while now this situation is his element whether you like him or not the man is strategically smart. He could take the route Clinton did in 93 or who can try something different, I guess we will see eventually.

Dems have already started the machine moving to try to get around another senate vote. There have been heavy talks with Pelosi and Obama about pushing the Senate bill through the House. There are also talks of using reconciliation to push it through with a simply majority.


As I stated earlier though, Republicans need to be weary of what they ask for.

You sound like Steny Hoyer who said a Brown win would be because voters are upset with the GOP. I really wish I knew what the hell that idiot was talking about. I agree GOP needs to be wary of Obama, Pelosi and Reid, along with the mass govt, pulling tricks to make sure this bill gets to a vote before Brown can be certified. The Mass law is very vague though about when the interim Senator loses his vote.

[MachNU]

Dam was just about to post this. This is great! Like alot of us have been saying a Republican Revolution is going to happen. Hell that was the first example. A state that hasnt had a Republican elected since '72.

[BanginJimmy]

Dam was just about to post this. This is great! Like alot of us have been saying a Republican Revolution is going to happen. Hell that was the first example. A state that hasnt had a Republican elected since '72.

Considering this victory, I fully expect GOP to take control of both houses of Congress in November and probably the white house and super majority in 2012.

[MachNU]

Considering this victory, I fully expect GOP to take control of both houses of Congress in November and probably the white house and super majority in 2012.

Like I have said before and will say again, by the end of thise year Obama WILL be a Lame Duck president!

[Browning151]

Considering this victory, I fully expect GOP to take control of both houses of Congress in November and probably the white house and super majority in 2012.

I'm hoping for that but at the same time, I hope the GOP finds some better leadership along the way as well as a clearer message for voters.

[Vteckidd]

His concession speech has been very good. I think you may be looking at a future republican front runner

[Vteckidd]

I'm hoping for that but at the same time, I hope the GOP finds some better leadership along the way as well as a clearer message for voters.

Agreed

[Browning151]

As I stated earlier though, Republicans need to be weary of what they ask for.

The Democrats should be as well, a victory like this clearly shows that people are not happy with where healthcare reform is going, and if they continue to force this through by the house simply approving the senate bill or through "reconciliation" then they will be sending an equally poor message that they are not listening to their constituents.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm hoping for that but at the same time, I hope the GOP finds some better leadership along the way as well as a clearer message for voters.

Leadership in both houses of Congress was the problem starting in 2004. There was never a clear message about what they wanted to do for the next 2 years.

I can honestly say that leadership in both houses will be the downfall of the dumbocrats in 2010 too. Pelosi are completely tied to ideology and are completely ignoring the will of the people. Pelosi is safe in her distict, but Reid is on his way into retirement, just like 3 other dems (to date) that already know they cannot win re-election. I can say for a fact right now that if the Senate and house bills contained just the tort reform that GOP wanted it would have already sailed through both houses and been signed back in August.

[Vteckidd]

I really hope there is a huge shift back towards center and whoever goes to Washington remembers they work for us

republicans can be just as power hungry as dems

we need another contract with America , tax cuts, pay down deficit and a president that is truly willing to work with both sides

[BanginJimmy]

republicans can be just as power hungry as dems

we need another contract with America , tax cuts, pay down deficit and a president that is truly willing to work with both sides

The repubs power plays were the reason they lost so bad in 06 and 08. If they stick with conservative principles they will run congree for many years.

Clinton saw the writing on the wall early in his presidency and acted accordingly, I don't know if Obama is smart enough to do the same.

[tony]

The Democrats should be as well, a victory like this clearly shows that people are not happy with where healthcare reform is going, and if they continue to force this through by the house simply approving the senate bill or through "reconciliation" then they will be sending an equally poor message that they are not listening to their constituents.

Definitely and I hope the administration is listening. I really don't understand it and I cannot lie.. I have to agree with everyone here that Obama needs to set himself apart from these lifetime politicians and step up to his responsibilities. All the back room dealing and half assing reform has lead to this, and democrats got exactly what they deserve.

It's no secret that I am for healthcare reform but the senate bill was absolute bullshit, regressive in every way possible. People like Rahm Emmanuel are the problem along with the "blue dawg democrats," Republicans haven't had the majority that the democrats have in decades yet they have not had a problem pushing through their legislation but these nancy democrats can't get past their own roadblocks.

I say Republicans need to be careful what they ask for because there is a bigger picture to healthcare reform. I believe the next move will be the administration calls the Republican's bluff with the democrats wanting the Republicans to filibuster the bill, the why is in the perception.

[zspeed24]

I say Republicans need to be careful what they ask for because there is a bigger picture to healthcare reform.


What do you consider to be the bigger picture to hc reform?

[Vteckidd]

I'm for healthcare reform but not in it's current form. Reform, not replacement of the entire system.

The dems don't have a clue all they want is a power play to run 1/6th if the us economy. The republicans need their own ideas and to really push them, they haven't done that IMO. They need another newt Gingrich someone with IDEAS not ideology.

Obama needs to step up to Reid and pelosi and let them know he runs the country and the current "status quo" ( to borrow a line from him) isn't working

[S2KJD]

yes! 70% of americans disagree with the stupid healthcare bill (in the form it was in) and even though its obama's legacy hopefully some pride will be let go of and start being a president for the people and not just for himself. he has 3 more years to try and do "good" things so for him to of been so one minded set on this bill was simply wrong and a republican getting voted in a state that hasnt had one in the senate since '72 is making it all quite obvious :)

[tony]

I'm seeing Democrats point the finger at Coakley, if they truly believe that they have not learned anything.

[mmmmpsi]

about time someone stood up and said what I'm hearing from everyone I know anyway.. Obama is doing a horrible job.. He's pushing reform through that does not have the support of the country because it's in his own best interest.. FINALLY someone has woken up to this..

Obama has burned bridges with Banks, Automotive Industry, Oil Companies, Health Care etc.. give it another year and he'll pretty much piss off everyone inside the U.S. and only have foreign countries supporting him cause of what he did to the U.S. Dollar..

Then he wants another 1.35 Billion for education reform?? Who the fuck is going to pay for this?? OH WAIT, states need to lobby for this money?? So in other words, Illinois is going to get it all and other states that are actually in good financial situations are going to have to pay for it.. WTF... So done with Obama (not like I wasn't from the beginning)

[Justin51982]

I am thrilled with this victory. 22% of Democrates voted for him. It's amazing to have one of the blueist states in the nation go red. Show's what they think of the "messiah" (Obama).

[tony]

I guess one thing I didn't think about is the Dems could bypass the filibuster with a watered down healthcare bill through reconcilliation so I guess this isn't totally over, just prolonged.

[Browning151]

I guess one thing I didn't think about is the Dems could bypass the filibuster with a watered down healthcare bill through reconcilliation so I guess this isn't totally over, just prolonged.

That could very well play out worse for the Dems than a filibuster could for the Republicans, I think it's becoming quite clear that the momentum is swinging more towards opposition of the current bill. Voters are realizing that along with healthcare there is a lot more garbage being rammed through with this to ensure more and more gov't control of the economy, and I think that the Dems pushing this through will only send an even clearer picture to voters that they aren't listening and that will certainly show in November.

[bu villain]

Even though I have big issues with the current healthcare bill, its sad that probably nothing will get done in terms of healthcare. It seems like neither side is willing to compromise on anything substantial. Maybe our congressmen and women should go back to elementary school to learn what compromise means.

[Justin51982]

Even though I have big issues with the current healthcare bill, its sad that probably nothing will get done in terms of healthcare. It seems like neither side is willing to compromise on anything substantial. Maybe our congressmen and women should go back to elementary school to learn what compromise means.

To me that is fine. I am not a fan of socialized healthcare. I don't think we should have it anyway.

[tony]

To me that is fine. I am not a fan of socialized healthcare. I don't think we should have it anyway.

This is usually how people feel till they or a close loved one is rejected due to a "pre-existing condition."

[Justin51982]

This is usually how people feel till they or a close loved one is rejected due to a "pre-existing condition."

I sell insurance for a living, so I know the name of the game when it comes to that. I have gone through education and training in regards to health insurance, as well as life, auto, home, long term care, the list goes on. Have you?

I also have lost loved ones to pre-existing conditions, and guess what, they had no problem getting the care they needed to help prolong their lives.

Furthermore, even if that was the case. I still would not change my feelings. I do not believe that the government owes me anything, and that includes healthcare. The more things that government "does for us" the more our rights get taken away.

[Total_Blender]

One thing about Massachusetts is that the Senate bill is basically just a bigger version of RomneyCare (mandates, fines, etc). So I could see why MA independents who are unhappy with RomneyCare would vote for a senator who opposes it.

The Dems still have a majority, the only thing the Repukes have gained is the ability to fillibuster. And since the GOP is pretty much in shambles as far as leadership is concerned (Fox News is pretty much running the party) I'm not seeing how they could accomplish much with a filibuster.

Its getting tossed around that Obama might be making a move farther to the Left, which I think is a good strategy. The Dems need to play to their base and fulfill the promises we voted them in on. Its a waste of time and political capital trying to court Liebermann, Snowe, etc just for the sham of bipartisanship. Revoking committee and caucus memberships on those who aren't productive, and getting rid of Rahm, Geithner, and the other corporatists would help with a more progressive agenda as well.

[Vteckidd]

yEs cause what yesterday proved was the country wants to go farther left

lol incompetent

[tony]

Massachusetts represents the entire country now? They thought the same in New Hampshire in the Democratic Primaries, we see how that turned out.

[BanginJimmy]

yEs cause what yesterday proved was the country wants to go farther left

lol incompetent


Do you really expect anything more from someone that gets his news from Keith Olberman?

[Justin51982]

Do you really expect anything more from someone that gets his news from Keith Olberman?

Agreed, anything that Total Blender says is really just pulled out of his ass anyway. He makes things up and calls them "facts". It's really better to just ignore his rants.

[Browning151]

Agreed, anything that Total Blender says is really just pulled out of his ass anyway. He makes things up and calls them "facts". It's really better to just ignore his rants.

Typical Liberal response: avoid the issue at hand, pull some "facts" out of nowhere, throw in a little name calling and there you have it.

[Vteckidd]

Massachusetts represents the entire country now? They thought the same in New Hampshire in the Democratic Primaries, we see how that turned out.

I didn't say that. But it's naive to think last night didn't play into the national scene in some way or another.

A heavily democrat state went way into republican is a huge warning sign no matter what way you look at it. If you watched the focus group (which was heavily democrat) and saw their answers it's cause for alarm.

Last night was a small insight into the way the country feels. Look at the votes from last year to this year.

Dennis miller said it right the independent people who were anti bush are now anti Obama, and most dems are starting to even question Obama and the administration.

The country is still center , either center slight left, center slight right. The current administration and congress is FAR left. People don't like it

[MachNU]

Agreed, anything that Total Blender says is really just pulled out of his ass anyway. He makes things up and calls them "facts". It's really better to just ignore his rants.

Yeah you post in here enough, and eventually you will learn when you get to his post be preparred to just have a good laugh, and the idea's that he pulls out of his ass. :lmao:

Back on topic... Like other's have said, in regards to the healthcare plan, we are not out of the water yet, we just moved from the deep end, to the shallow end. Once we start hearing if there going to dick Brown around for when he is cert. to take his seat is when we know what will happen.

Also to the person who said compermise on the healthcare plan? What is there to meet in the middle about? Most of the people are saying no, hell no, and the republicans are trying to speak and act for the people. Vs where the democrates are sitting there saying, they know better than what the people want. I mean hell, look at Obama, he's a walking example. There is so much proof out there of him on his campign trail telling people he's going to give them what they want, and now 1 year later, proof where he is saying, I will not. Dem's are looking out for 1 thing...themselves.

[MachNU]

Hell also another thing is, I can only imagine the amount of ear marks that are covered up inside this bill. Plus all the bride money to other state's to buy there vote's for the plan.

[Justin51982]

Also to the person who said compermise on the healthcare plan? What is there to meet in the middle about? Most of the people are saying no, hell no, and the republicans are trying to speak and act for the people. Vs where the democrates are sitting there saying, they know better than what the people want. I mean hell, look at Obama, he's a walking example. There is so much proof out there of him on his campign trail telling people he's going to give them what they want, and now 1 year later, proof where he is saying, I will not. Dem's are looking out for 1 thing...themselves.

Agreed, Dems only look out for themselves and could really care less about the popular majority.

[mmmmpsi]

Massachusetts represents the entire country now? They thought the same in New Hampshire in the Democratic Primaries, we see how that turned out.
When it happens in a state that has been blue for 40 years yes.. that speaks volumes on what Obama's TRUE support is.. Which is falling..

Put it this way.. if he were to go out of office tomorrow, what would he be remembered for?? Trying to tax banks on profit, giving billions and billions to a failing company named GM, trying to push through a health care bill on Christmas Eve and closing Guantanamo Bay.. WOW!! I'm impressed.. :???:

[mm2654]

Put it this way.. if he were to go out of office tomorrow, what would he be remembered for?? Trying to tax banks on profit, giving billions and billions to a failing company named GM, trying to push through a health care bill on Christmas Eve and closing Guantanamo Bay.. WOW!! I'm impressed.. :???:

Dont forget all the hard work he put in to win the nobel peace prize

[Vteckidd]

I think the death of him will be he and his staff continuing to blame Bush .

If I hear "the last 8 years" one more time



This is his presidency he has to realize he inherited problems but his policies have done nothing to fix them

[bu villain]

Also to the person who said compermise on the healthcare plan? What is there to meet in the middle about? Most of the people are saying no, hell no, and the republicans are trying to speak and act for the people. Vs where the democrates are sitting there saying, they know better than what the people want. I mean hell, look at Obama, he's a walking example. There is so much proof out there of him on his campign trail telling people he's going to give them what they want, and now 1 year later, proof where he is saying, I will not. Dem's are looking out for 1 thing...themselves.


Agreed, Dems only look out for themselves and could really care less about the popular majority.

Maybe this is where we disagree on what compromise is. To me if 30% of the people want something and 70% of the people want something else, then doing ONLY what the 70% want is not compromise. That's called tyranny of the majority. The idea that even the minority, have a voice that deserves to be respected and heard is one of this country's founding principles. To me a real compromise would be to allow competition across state lines but also do something to limit the denial or pre-existing conditions.

[Justin51982]

Maybe this is where we disagree on what compromise is. To me if 30% of the people want something and 70% of the people want something else, then doing ONLY what the 70% want is not compromise. That's called tyranny of the majority. The idea that even the minority, have a voice that deserves to be respected and heard is one of this country's founding principles. To me a real compromise would be to allow competition across state lines but also do something to limit the denial or pre-existing conditions.

In a Democracy, it is a majority rules. They take the majority of the vote. That is almost like saying well 30% of the people in the U.S. wanted McCain as president whereas 70% wanted Barry Obama. Are you saying there needs to be a compromise there? No, and that is because it is majority rules. If they pass some form of healthcare reform that costs taxpayers, then the 70% of people who do not want it will still have to pay for the 30% that do. It creates animosity.

Another example of this is Germany, even to this day, 20 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the former West Germans carry animosity towards the former East Germans. This is becasue the West is having to pay to repair and fix everything the east does and everything the east lacks, and they (West Germans) feel that it is NOT their responsibility.

If people have a problem with the cost of healthcare in this nation, then maybe, just maybe, money, time and effort should be put into deporting illegal immigrants who utilize our medical system and don't pay for it. Maybe, people should stop sueing over every little thing that a doctor does that could be construed as "negligent", when they are really trying to help. Perhaps by doing this, malpractice insurance would end up costing less and thus cost the patient less. People want to point fingers at republicans and democrats and insurance companies; when in reality, people need to look at the real problem, which is everyone who trys to screw and buck the system to get something for nothing. Deport the illegals, and stop sueing over ever little damn thing. That alone will help bring the cost of healthcare down.

As far as regulations go. I do think that perhaps the drug companies might need to be talked to and their outrageous costs of drugs be brought down.

[Vteckidd]

This is a "majority" rules country But when it comes to legislating I think it should TRY to borrow some ideas from the minority.

I'm not for public option, I'm not for Cadillac tax, but buying across statelines should be allowed, I agree about the pre-existing conditions.

The problem is the dems don't give a shit about republicans and the republicans don't have any real solutions (ideas) to really present. They talk about tort reform buti want to know HOW

we need a congress like in 94-98 where clinton was proactive with newt led republicans and the dems where real ideas where exchanged discussed and implemented. It was very bipartisan and lots got accomplished.

Ever since then it's been power plays and furthering ideology instead of what is best for the people.

With a deficit spiraling put of control I don't knowhow they can talk about controlling costs in relating to healthcare

look In the mirror

[tony]

I think we'd consider this more of a Republic than a true Democracy.. in theory majority rules but there are failsafes that are supposed to limit complete power. Perfect example is the popular vote versus the electoral college.

[bu villain]

^ exactly. We do not live in a simple "majority rules" (51% wins) country. If that were the case, why do the democrats need 60 votes (this is 60% of the senate) to pass healthcare in the senate? Why does Rhode Island get the same number of senators as New York or California? Why does it take 3/4 of the states to ratify an amendment? Remember when Gore won the popular vote and yet did not become president?

Justin, your comparison to the presidential election also does not make sense. A president is one person so it can't split it up but a bill may contain many parts, so it can be composed of ideas from many different groups of people. If people had to agree with every single part of every single bill, nothing would get done. Compromise means allowing something you don't like in order to get something you do want.

[5speed]

I was watching a show on tv last night and a senator said that if the Higher Education stuff goes through then every schools tuition will rise, all but Nebraska. He said it was due to a throwback. Basically every states will be taxing and raising tuition to pay for another states deficit. Can someone explain what Nebraska did in order for this to happen?

[Total_Blender]

Tuition is probably going to rise anyway at the USG schools. Every single school has been cut to the bone as far as budget goes, to the point that they are about to have to start cutting services because personnel are stretched thin.

As far as tuition going to states deficits, that doesn't happen. Every single dollar of tuition raised goes to the schools endowment, and even then tuition is not enough to support the schools so there are fees, state grants, etc etc.

[5speed]

Tuition is probably going to rise anyway at the USG schools. Every single school has been cut to the bone as far as budget goes, to the point that they are about to have to start cutting services because personnel are stretched thin.

As far as tuition going to states deficits, that doesn't happen. Every single dollar of tuition raised goes to the schools endowment, and even then tuition is not enough to support the schools so there are fees, state grants, etc etc.

Sorry, I wrote that wrong. Not the deficit. I mean that tuition's have already gone up, but would go up even more. This is to happen to all states except Nebraska if the Higher Education bill goes through. All other states would be supporting a small percentage to Nebraska for some reason or another, therefore their tuition wont be rising like everyone else. The guy being interviewed mentioned a throwback, which makes me think of a kickback.

[Total_Blender]

Sorry, I wrote that wrong. Not the deficit. I mean that tuition's have already gone up, but would go up even more. This is to happen to all states except Nebraska if the Higher Education bill goes through. All other states would be supporting a small percentage to Nebraska for some reason or another, therefore their tuition wont be rising like everyone else. The guy being interviewed mentioned a throwback, which makes me think of a kickback.

Sorry, but I don't see any kickbacks in the text of the Higher Education bill HR4137

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4137&tab=summary

Some features of this bill that I like...

Defines criteria of foreign medical programs that can receive title IV funds.

Defines criteria on "diploma mills" and other scams.

Requires colleges to provide their students with bibliographic information on their textbooks including ISBN. Also requires college bookstores to disclose the price at which the publisher wholesales textbooks and retails textbooks the general public.

Establishes a test program at 10 universities that will allow students to rent their course materials rather than buy.

Makes the FAFSA more easily accessible to consumers, including a FAFSA-EZ for students who are not expected to have family-based education funding.

Enhances the Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 in which the attorney general repays student loans for those who serve for 3 years as a state or local criminal prosecutor or public defender.

I didn't see anything in the text of the bill about title IV money or any other college funding being diverted to the deficits of State governments.

Tuition will rise everywhere because the state governments are broke and can't fund the schools. But those rises will be determined by the schools and their respective state governments. Congress has nothing to do with that, and I don't see any basis for claims of kickbacks etc.

If you want to talk about kickbacks at the state level and university tuition and expenses... thats another story...:ninja:

[5speed]

Sorry, but I don't see any kickbacks in the text of the Higher Education bill HR4137

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4137&tab=summary

Some features of this bill that I like...

Defines criteria of foreign medical programs that can receive title IV funds.

Defines criteria on "diploma mills" and other scams.

Requires colleges to provide their students with bibliographic information on their textbooks including ISBN. Also requires college bookstores to disclose the price at which the publisher wholesales textbooks and retails textbooks the general public.

Establishes a test program at 10 universities that will allow students to rent their course materials rather than buy.

Makes the FAFSA more easily accessible to consumers, including a FAFSA-EZ for students who are not expected to have family-based education funding.

Enhances the Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 in which the attorney general repays student loans for those who serve for 3 years as a state or local criminal prosecutor or public defender.

I didn't see anything in the text of the bill about title IV money or any other college funding being diverted to the deficits of State governments.

Tuition will rise everywhere because the state governments are broke and can't fund the schools. But those rises will be determined by the schools and their respective state governments. Congress has nothing to do with that, and I don't see any basis for claims of kickbacks etc.

If you want to talk about kickbacks at the state level and university tuition and expenses... thats another story...:ninja:

I like those features too. The senator, who ever he was, clearly said throwback when referring to Nebraska. I'm just trying to figure out where in the hell that came from. The Congress doesn't have anything to do with it, but the way he said it clearly said that other states would cover that state and that state only. Doesn't make one bit of sense to me at all. That just isn't how it works.