Can someone please tell me......

[Got Milk?]

What did Obama do for this country in 1 year of his presidency? As I see, prices on everything are climbing up and up. He is just taking trips to every country there is.

Fuck that Ni G G a, revoke that Ni GG a.

[toxxxic]

I've been laid off 3 times since he's been president.

[TIGERJC]

god tell me not to ban him


I guess you're on vacation

[FasTech]

We were fucked either way. McCain was shit, Obama is shit, therefor we've been shit of luck from the beginning. I've done gave up on the political stuff with the country for now. Just all fucked up and its going to be hard to get back on our feet. But, as much as I don't care for Obama, lets give him his term and see what he can do.

[Got Milk?]

^^

Please keep religion in religion section. If i wanted any part of religion in WL, i would make that thread in WL.



As far as it goes for me, I got layed off since he became the president.

[-EnVus-]

fuk obama he is just a black bush....Bring Bill back he was the best yet

[Got Milk?]

^^

We don't have to get it that good now, I could settle down with Bush, just revoke this ni gg a

[FasTech]

^^

Please keep religion in religion section. If i wanted any part of religion in WL, i would make that thread in WL.



As far as it goes for me, I got layed off since he became the president.



Who the fuck was talking about religion?

[Got Milk?]

comment was meant for TigerJC, but you posted just before I did, and I care less to go back and change it.

By the way, calm down "it's the internetz"

[FasTech]

comment was meant for TigerJC, but you posted just before I did, and I care less to go back and change it.

By the way, calm down "it's the internetz"


I'm calm. I just asked because I didn't see how my comment was towards religion. lol.

[JITB]

Obama has done alot of things people disagree with, but i have faith in a person thats willing to try a different approach rather than stick to same ole same ole routine and expect different results...


what has the president ever done.. when bush was in office he couldnt be blamed for anything... it was all clintons fault.. now obamas in office, and its all obamas fault!

than u say "people expect obama to change the world overnight they are crazy"
than u ask "what has he done in a year?"


you cant dictate and make peace, and talk business politics over the phone all the time. you have to talk to people, to get shit done. You cant just make major power moves from your big chair in the office, and expect everyone to follow. bush had horrible people skills from my perspective. You would be suprised how much can be changed after a simple face to face convo.

[youngmill]

It was easier for BUSH to mess the country up in 8yrs. Its gonna be even harder to build it back up. He cant just make things better in a YEAR. you gotta give him some time ppl. Its gonna take alot more then Obama ta fix this. He's gonna need three terms, and three he doesn't have. MCcain would have been much worst. He was the best they had to offer and thats why he got chose. Besides Obama h as ppl ova him, as your BOSS at work does. Some body is always telling another person what to do. We cant blame it on him on some real shit. There is still ppl above him spit'n out orders.

[BanginJimmy]

I shall come back to this thread to add some common sense when I get home. It would really be too much for me to complete the pwnage from the blackberry.

[Total_Blender]

What does Obama have to do with you guys getting laid off? Did you get a termination notice on White House stationary directly from his desk? Did he come to our job and say "Yo Holmes... punch out because you're shitcanned"?

:lmfao:


I'm going to start blaming all my problems on Obama now because its the hip thing to do. That Muslim Kenyan Marxist Socialist Nazi Homo burned my toaster waffles this morning and drank the last of the milk and left the empty carton in the fridge. Wheres the birth certificate??? :2up:

[punkr6]

I don't agree with anything Obama has done or is doing, But this thread is full of FAIL, and the Obama lovers are gonna eat this thing alive......

[AirMax95]

I still have my job just because Obama is in office! When Bush was in office, we had a salary freeze, but now that Obama is in, its lifted this year!

Even cooler, I got this job while Bush was in office! Bush even let me switch jobs 3 times before landing this baller ass job. I love all my Presidents!

Clinton, you didn't do much for me, but you let me go through grade school....you're awesome too!

I want to be President one day so I can affect the lives of everybody in this great land, even the lazy fuck you got laid off because he sucked at his job. I want to be proud to say "I fucked him over. I did that shit!".

[tony]

I've been laid off 3 times since he's been president.

Yes your inability to maintain a job has everything to do with the President of the United States.. on to reading the rest of the thread, just couldn't believe that.

[tony]

I still have my job just because Obama is in office! When Bush was in office, we had a salary freeze, but now that Obama is in, its lifted this year!

Even cooler, I got this job while Bush was in office! Bush even let me switch jobs 3 times before landing this baller ass job. I love all my Presidents!

Clinton, you didn't do much for me, but you let me go through grade school....you're awesome too!

I want to be President one day so I can affect the lives of everybody in this great land, even the lazy fuck you got laid off because he sucked at his job. I want to be proud to say "I fucked him over. I did that shit!".

I just have to wonder if Government was taught in grade school, like the fact that not one entity has total control over government or the economy. Leadership is a domino effect especially as it pertains to the executive office and any benefit or consequences are not seen for years. Even the fallout from the housing boom didn't bottom out until February 2009 and the decline began back in 2007.

As far as what the President has done this year, when people are looking for a specific result they tend to have tunnel vision and apparently a short memory cause that question gets answered in the politics section at least once a month. If Obama didn't authorize the troop surge it would be he didn't take a stand against terrorism, if the situation with Russia wasn't neutralized many would cite his lack of experience that they tried to inject during the election. Hell I don't know about other people but if you use the stock market as a measure for the economy, it looks to have been a steady climb from a deep hole, and anyone knows that in any recovery gradual is more consistent than immediate change.

Lastly, I control my destiny.. not any bureaucrat. There is more opportunity out here than the past 9 years, it just requires the 'follow the herd' mentality to be thrown out the door.

[AirMax95]

It's been a year and they (the administration) have a long, rocky road to trod.

The OP lost my interest in his first and third post. I don't expect much more in this thread until Jimmy post. At least he thinks....

[TSiFTW]

Screw it all. We need the technology to bring back Reagan!!

[zspeed24]

^yep!

[BanginJimmy]

The OP lost my interest in his first and third post. I don't expect much more in this thread until Jimmy post. At least he thinks....

I had a shitty day so I have a little bit for everyone in this thread.




What did Obama do for this country in 1 year of his presidency?

Not a damn thing thats good for the country outside of the troop surge. My only complaint with that is that he waited 3 months after the request and plan was formally made to make his decision.




As I see, prices on everything are climbing up and up. He is just taking trips to every country there is.

That would be called inflation. Its only going to get worse too. This falls equally on everyone that has had a seat in Congress and the White House for the last 25 years. A spend as fast as you can mentality in the current Congress is just the icing on the cake.


Fuck that Ni G G a, revoke that Ni GG a.

Someone should revoke your posting privileges also.



I've been laid off 3 times since he's been president.

Blame Bush and Clinton then. They are the reasons for the housing collapse. Clinton for enacting the CRA amendments and Bush for not dumping those changes.



fuk obama he is just a black bush.

Not even close.

I fully agree with the bolded portion though.


...Bring Bill back he was the best yet

Maybe the best at saving money at the cost of national security. Clinton did 2 significant things in 8 years in office. The first was purger himself, the second was to be able to say he had a budget surplus. We found out on Sept.11 2001 where he found a place to make the cuts.



Obama has done alot of things people disagree with,

Understatement of the decade right there.


but i have faith in a person thats willing to try a different approach rather than stick to same ole same ole routine and expect different results...

What different approach is he trying? The bumper sticker slogans and campaign rhetoric have all proven to be as thin as the paper they were first written on. I wont bother naming the dozens of examples as you obviously only know about the bumper stickers.



what has the president ever done.. when bush was in office he couldnt be blamed for anything... it was all clintons fault..

Actually Bush was blamed for everything since his first day in office and even before that.



now obamas in office, and its all obamas fault!

How is quadrupling the deficit NOT Obama's fault? How is doing a complete 180* turn from his campaign promises NOT Obama's fault?


than u say "people expect obama to change the world overnight they are crazy"
than u ask "what has he done in a year?"

Obama had MANY chances to make a stand in 1 year, yet played partisan politics without a single original idea of his own. Instead of taking a stand against run away spending, the first spending bills he signed had a combined total of more than 15k earmarks totaling more than 100B dollars.

Instead of insisting that CSPAN be allowed to bring cameras into the meetings about health care, he relied on backroom deals to get what he wanted.

The list goes on and on.


You would be suprised how much can be changed after a simple face to face convo.

So with all of the traveling, what has he accomplished internationally? Absolutely nothing.



It was easier for BUSH to mess the country up in 8yrs.

What exactly did Bush do to mess the country up?




Its gonna be even harder to build it back up. He cant just make things better in a YEAR. you gotta give him some time ppl. Its gonna take alot more then Obama ta fix this. He's gonna need three terms, and three he doesn't have. MCcain would have been much worst. He was the best they had to offer and thats why he got chose. Besides Obama h as ppl ova him, as your BOSS at work does. Some body is always telling another person what to do. We cant blame it on him on some real shit. There is still ppl above him spit'n out orders.

After attempting to read this I realized you really should stay out of this section. It is WAY over your head.



What does Obama have to do with you guys getting laid off? Did you get a termination notice on White House stationary directly from his desk? Did he come to our job and say "Yo Holmes... punch out because you're shitcanned"?

I wont say he had anything to do wtih anyone getting laid off, but his proposed policies will drive more and more jobs out of the country. The added taxes that are a part of the health care debate alone will cost millions of jobs.



I just have to wonder if Government was taught in grade school, like the fact that not one entity has total control over government or the economy.

In the current political state we are in, 1 entity DOES have total control. The Democrat party holds a filibuster proof senate and a sizable majority in the House. ANYTHING Pelosi, Reid, and Obama want done they can do. Just look at where health care is right now. They are just going to skip the debate and conference to merge the House and Senate bills and they are doing it with only dems and behind closed doors.




As far as what the President has done this year, when people are looking for a specific result they tend to have tunnel vision and apparently a short memory cause that question gets answered in the politics section at least once a month. If Obama didn't authorize the troop surge it would be he didn't take a stand against terrorism, if the situation with Russia wasn't neutralized many would cite his lack of experience that they tried to inject during the election. Hell I don't know about other people but if you use the stock market as a measure for the economy, it looks to have been a steady climb from a deep hole, and anyone knows that in any recovery gradual is more consistent than immediate change.

Wow thats a lot of writing to say absolutely nothing. Any chance you are planning a career in politics?

[JITB]

why even debate anything with politics, everyone is always wrong.. noone agrees.. its talking in circles. i will say it again like i say all the time, if i sat down and just back tracked all posts from bushs term in office, and quoted previous statements.. it would be amazing how many people but their foot in their mouths.

I never said it had nothing to do with obama, he is in office its his responsibility. like it always is, since when is it a problem for a president to take ideas from others, rather than be stubborn and never listen to anyone.

cameras in the meetings? when the man was on Tv every other day telling us whats goin on, the world complained that hes on tv too much. Its a stupid discussion.. no matter what happens it will be a problem, and nothing will ever be right or wrong.

[BanginJimmy]

why even debate anything with politics, everyone is always wrong.. noone agrees.. its talking in circles.

You made the decision to come into this section so obviously you thought it was worth debating. Dont get your panties in a bunch because everyone doesnt agree with you.



i will say it again like i say all the time, if i sat down and just back tracked all posts from bushs term in office, and quoted previous statements.. it would be amazing how many people but their foot in their mouths.

The same could be said of ANY president and their supporter/detractors.


I never said it had nothing to do with obama, he is in office its his responsibility. like it always is, since when is it a problem for a president to take ideas from others, rather than be stubborn and never listen to anyone.

No one ever said it was a problem for the President to listen to advisers. The problem is, he is only hearing what he wants to hear. Why else would he and Congress completely ignore the fact that the current health care proposals enjoy below 40% approval?


cameras in the meetings? when the man was on Tv every other day telling us whats goin on, the world complained that hes on tv too much.

CSPAN does nothing but cover congressional sessions and meetings. Obama said during the election that he wanted CSPAN there to make the process transparent.

[81911SC]

"What different approach is he trying? The bumper sticker slogans and campaign rhetoric have all proven to be as thin as the paper they were first written on. I wont bother naming the dozens of examples as you obviously only know about the bumper stickers."
"How is quadrupling the deficit NOT Obama's fault? How is doing a complete 180* turn from his campaign promises NOT Obama's fault?"
"You made the decision to come into this section so obviously you thought it was worth debating. Dont get your panties in a bunch because everyone doesnt agree with you."

I would almost bet cash he won't answer these straight or just ignore them. If he acknowledges them then he just won't answer them and go off on something else.

[sullen]

damned if you do, damned if you don't

[BanginJimmy]

"What different approach is he trying? The bumper sticker slogans and campaign rhetoric have all proven to be as thin as the paper they were first written on. I wont bother naming the dozens of examples as you obviously only know about the bumper stickers."
"How is quadrupling the deficit NOT Obama's fault? How is doing a complete 180* turn from his campaign promises NOT Obama's fault?"
"You made the decision to come into this section so obviously you thought it was worth debating. Dont get your panties in a bunch because everyone doesnt agree with you."

I would almost bet cash he won't answer these straight or just ignore them. If he acknowledges them then he just won't answer them and go off on something else.


I have never known a liberal to be able to back up their claims with anything more than vague references and circumstantial, at best, evidence. They also seem to avoid answering direct questions with direct answers.

[sullen]

Besides Obama h as ppl ova him, as your BOSS at work does. Some body is always telling another person what to do. We cant blame it on him on some real shit. There is still ppl above him spit'n out orders.

are you stupid?

[81911SC]

I have never known a liberal to be able to back up their claims with anything more than vague references and circumstantial, at best, evidence. They also seem to avoid answering direct questions with direct answers.Exactly, they'll change the subject faster than Congress had to read the health care bill but never answer directly.

[The Creeper]

Banging Jimmy for president. On a side not, bj, I remember you are a bears fan... I bet you are glad turner got the boot.

[BanginJimmy]

I am very glad Turner got the boot, but I wish they would have sent Lovie with him. Angelo could have gone too for all I care.

[The Creeper]

I am very glad Turner got the boot, but I wish they would have sent Lovie with him. Angelo could have gone too for all I care.

I agree lovie should go too, but we all knew he won't just yet. His time is coming soon.:goodjob:

[BanginJimmy]

I agree lovie should go too, but we all knew he won't just yet. His time is coming soon.:goodjob:

He has until next year for a major turn around, if it doesnt happen then, I think he is gone. Another bad draft or trade and I think Angelo is gone also.

[tony]

I have never known a liberal to be able to back up their claims with anything more than vague references and circumstantial, at best, evidence. They also seem to avoid answering direct questions with direct answers.

When you don't pay attention to the facts yeah it does seem like a "liberal" doesn't back up their claim. Selective hearing (or reading) doesn't mean the other person doesn't know what they are talking about.

[BanginJimmy]

When you don't pay attention to the facts yeah it does seem like a "liberal" doesn't back up their claim. Selective hearing (or reading) doesn't mean the other person doesn't know what they are talking about.


Why dont you show where I didnt pay attention to the facts then.

[JITB]

You made the decision to come into this section so obviously you thought it was worth debating. Dont get your panties in a bunch because everyone doesnt agree with you.




The same could be said of ANY president and their supporter/detractors.



No one ever said it was a problem for the President to listen to advisers. The problem is, he is only hearing what he wants to hear. Why else would he and Congress completely ignore the fact that the current health care proposals enjoy below 40% approval?



CSPAN does nothing but cover congressional sessions and meetings. Obama said during the election that he wanted CSPAN there to make the process transparent.


i stated what i thought and that was it.. and listening to the 40% is good and bad. now all of a sudden percentages matter when your against it. Politic is a big game of taking what you can and flipping it, and whenever the tables turn, flip it again.

[BanginJimmy]

nd listening to the 40% is good and bad.


Congress is supposed to represent the people, yet they are still going to force a bill through when only 38% of the country approves of the bill. How is that representing the people?

[JITB]

Congress is supposed to represent the people, yet they are still going to force a bill through when only 38% of the country approves of the bill. How is that representing the people?



since when has the approval rating of the the people meant anything.. it hasnt before so why does it now..

[tony]

Congress is supposed to represent the people, yet they are still going to force a bill through when only 38% of the country approves of the bill. How is that representing the people?

Source on the 38%?

[JITB]

Source on the 38%?

CNN Twitter polls

[tony]

CNN Twitter polls

Yeah I guess so, it's good to know the sample of which they polled. I mean if you poll those who are in a certain demographic you'll get a much different outcome than another, also questions asked. (i.e push polling) Either way last time I checked 62% is greater than 38%.

[Total_Blender]

Lol @ twitter polls. I'm not on active on twitter myself and I don't know many people who are. About the only thing I use twitter for is to get the daily specials from the place I usually eat lunch. :screwy:


So anyway, I just read a rundown on the Senate healthcare bill and it seems decent to me.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/24/AR2009122400662_2.html?sid=ST2009122400904

1.) Everyone under $29,326 per year is eligible for Medicaid.

2.) Everyone up from $29,326 to $88,200 a year is eligible for subsidized coverage through a state based insurance exchange.

3.) Employers with more than 50 employees would face fines for not providing coverage.

4.) Employees who can afford coverage but choose not to get it also face fines. - not sure how I feel about this yet but I am pretty sure I'm against it.

5.) 120 billion in cuts over to the next decade to Medicare Advantage, which is a form of medicare provided to seniors through private insurance companies. These cuts include extras like gym memberships, and other add-on benefits.

6.) Narrowing of the "doughnut hole" which forces some seniors to pay for their prescription drug coverage. Those who remain in the doughnut hole will receive a 50% discount on their prescription drugs.

7.) Changing the way treatments are billed. Certain treatments will get paid out as a bundle rather than an itemized list of individual services.

8.) This plan will be payed for by cuts within the system (see also: Medicare Advantage), deals with the hospital groups and drug companies, and also increased taxes on millionaires and increased taxes on the "Cadillac" insurance policies.

Doesn't seem quite so bad to me?

As far as what Obama has done within the past year... what about the things he hasn't done?

For one, we're not at war with Russia right now. I know a big part of McCheese/Palin foreign policy was to engage Russia over Georgia. Glad that situation blew over.

Also, we were saved from having to deal with Sarah Palin in a leadership capacity at the legislative level (having a vote in the Senate). She was free to continue serving her constituents in Alaska who voted for her to serve a full ter... oh right... she fucked them over anyway. :lmfao:

[bu villain]

Congress is supposed to represent the people, yet they are still going to force a bill through when only 38% of the country approves of the bill. How is that representing the people?

I know you probably realize you are making an unfair oversimplification Jimmy, but not everyone does because I keep hearing these kind of arguments. Congress is not supposed to simply vote with whatever national polls say. Keep in mind:

1. Politicans represent a certain group of people, just because 60% of the US dislikes a bill doesn't mean that politician's constituents feel the same.

2. Politicans represent all of their constituents not just the majority. This is an important part of our government in general. Why do we even have a senate at all? Majority does not always rule.

3. Most average Joes don't have time to really investigate or understand many bills (especially 2000 page ones). A representative has a duty to do his/her best to make the best choice as they see the issue. Of course the people's feelings should be taken into account but that doesn't mean blindly voting with the majority regardless of the consequences.

[BanginJimmy]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/24/AR2009122400662_2.html?sid=ST2009122400904

1.) Everyone under $29,326 per year is eligible for Medicaid.

2.) Everyone up from $29,326 to $88,200 a year is eligible for subsidized coverage through a state based insurance exchange.

Equals increased taxes for everyone.


3.) Employers with more than 50 employees would face fines for not providing coverage.

More jobs cut in order to pay these additional fines and taxes.


4.) Employees who can afford coverage but choose not to get it also face fines. - not sure how I feel about this yet but I am pretty sure I'm against it.

Freedom of choice is no longer a freedom we enjoy.


5.) 120 billion in cuts over to the next decade to Medicare Advantage, which is a form of medicare provided to seniors through private insurance companies. These cuts include extras like gym memberships, and other add-on benefits.

Rationing will result.


6.) Narrowing of the "doughnut hole" which forces some seniors to pay for their prescription drug coverage. Those who remain in the doughnut hole will receive a 50% discount on their prescription drugs.

Why should anyone actually have to pay for their prescriptions right?


7.) Changing the way treatments are billed. Certain treatments will get paid out as a bundle rather than an itemized list of individual services.

changing the way it is billed doesnt mean its going to cost less. It will probably cost more because it will be easier for those that are looking to defraud the system to hide it.


8.) This plan will be payed for by cuts within the system (see also: Medicare Advantage), deals with the hospital groups and drug companies, and also increased taxes on millionaires and increased taxes on the "Cadillac" insurance policies.

Those cuts are also called rationing. Then added taxes which means medical plans will become even more expensive.




Doesn't seem quite so bad to me?

Of course it doesnt, nothing a liberal ever does seems bad to you.




Also, we were saved from having to deal with Sarah Palin in a leadership capacity at the legislative level (having a vote in the Senate). She was free to continue serving her constituents in Alaska who voted for her to serve a full ter... oh right... she fucked them over anyway. :lmfao:

I guess you could say the same things for your messiah. He barely even started his term before he started campaigning.

BTW, Palin was successful in reigning in costs at the state level while Obaam has spent so much money so quickly that even the chinese are telling us how to go about capitalism.

[BABY J]

LOL @ people blaming Obama b/c there were 5 guys at your job that WORKED HARDER than you, were SMARTER than you or had more people skills than you. My number 1 job when I am at work is to be better and smarther than any1 I work with. I make it so that if the boss is FORCED (by the President of the U.S... lol) to reduce headcount that his FIRST thought is "I gotta have Baby J --- the rest I will figure it out but I NEED Baby J". If you are not doing that at your job then you're expendable no matter who the fucking President is.

ALSO LOL @ Bill Clinton nutswingers. He was better than Bush (who is a total fucking retard) but BILL CLINTON IS THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR THE DECLINE IN HOUSING / BANKING.

"Really? How so Baby J??" I'm glad you asked.

I suggest some of you educate yourselves on the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act signed by Bill Clinton. If we need to go back further than Clinton to provide other data then I can suggest some other reading as well. Read up on billionaire Sanford I. Weill - and a few of his posse and politicians that were in bed with him.

Notice how flat it was before Bill Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall, then notice how steep it has become. Organized ripoff of millions of Americans.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z167/liberalamerican/sumbprimemarketgraph.jpg

Obama just got out the gate - the verdict is still out on him. But it was NOT time in this country for another Republican I'll tell you that much. McCain is not a total idiot like Bush, but it doesn't matter who inherited the last 16 years --- they would have a job on their hands regardless.

If you don't like who the President is get the fuck out - there are lots of other countries to live in.

[BABY J]

Jimmy I suggest you view McCains interview on how Obama is doing. I'm sure he'd be GLAD to agree with you on your Obama stance but he doesn't - and I'm sure he knows more about politics than you do. ;)

[tony]

BTW, Palin was successful in reigning in costs at the state level while Obaam has spent so much money so quickly that even the chinese are telling us how to go about capitalism.

What are you talking about? Alaska runs on a fiscal surplus which is why they pay their citizens, I guess thats why Palin felt it was okay to bill the state for nights she was at home.

[BanginJimmy]

What are you talking about? Alaska runs on a fiscal surplus which is why they pay their citizens, I guess thats why Palin felt it was okay to bill the state for nights she was at home.

The reason Alaska runs at a fiscal surplus is because she made so many cuts in useless programs and streamlined many others. That was why she upset so many republicans in Alaska.

You act like that is uncommon. I know you arent going to sit there and say that every other politician at that level doesnt do the exact same things.

[BanginJimmy]

Jimmy I suggest you view McCains interview on how Obama is doing. I'm sure he'd be GLAD to agree with you on your Obama stance but he doesn't - and I'm sure he knows more about politics than you do. ;)

You know as well as I do that I always hated McCain. I said as far back as June of 08 that dems had it made in the 08 election as they win no matter who won the election. McCain is closer to a blue dog dem than he is a republican.

[Total_Blender]

What are you talking about? Alaska runs on a fiscal surplus which is why they pay their citizens, I guess thats why Palin felt it was okay to bill the state for nights she was at home.

To be fair, she did save the Alaskan taxpayers half her salary. :lmfao:

Jimmy, your responses are typical Republican talking points.

1.) Higher taxes? Only on the filthy rich... fuck 'em they can afford it.

2.) Job cuts? I don't see it, given that the gov't will also be paying subsidies to small businesses to help them cover their employees. Employees under a certain amount will also be covered by medicaid, so that coverage won't necessarily be on the employers.

3.) Rationing... the proposed cuts are add-on benefits like gym memberships and such.

4.) I don't know what exactly you mean by "He barely even started his term before he started campaigning." Most candidates start campaigning before they are elected, not after they start their terms. :blah:



obama=One Big Ass Mistake America

I'm sure you came up with that acronym all by yourself. How creative and original. :goodjob:

[ahabion]

1.) Higher taxes? Only on the filthy rich... fuck 'em they can afford it.



You know what amazes me is that everyone strives to become millionaires and yet there is a resentment to somehow "punish" them with taxes because they have more money. Why?! Seriously, I want to be a millionaire one day and I can stand to be in a higher tax bracket, but why tax for the sake to pay for so many other's "benefits" against your own will or choice. That my friend is stealing and tyranny. But tax those rich people, darn them... how dare they make more money and be successful. They are evil rich people, we must punish them with taxes. (but deep under my breath... i want to be like them *giggle*)

[Total_Blender]

You know what amazes me is that everyone strives to become millionaires and yet there is a resentment to somehow "punish" them with taxes because they have more money. )

Its not to "punish" them, its to have a more equal sharing of the tax burden. Right now the lower brackets are stiffed with a disproportionate share.

[quickdodge®]

I'm sure you came up with that acronym all by yourself. How creative and original. :goodjob:

I hate when people do shit like this. If you don't know shit, don't post. Especially something like that. The reason you rarely see my name in here is because I don't know shit about politics. And I don't like to talk about something that I don't know about. And I won't go to Wikipedia for my points. If I don't know it, then i won't post it.

I admit it, too, I don't know shit about politics. I honestly wish I did, but I never paid any attention to it. Later, QD.

[BanginJimmy]

Jimmy, your responses are typical Republican talking points.

Everything you say is nothing but a talking point. You NEVER have anything to back up your responses.


1.) Higher taxes? Only on the filthy rich... fuck 'em they can afford it.

Envy is such a terrible thing. Maybe we should be doing more to punish those that make no effort to succeed in life and just live off the system and quit punishing those that do work hard to succeed.


2.) Job cuts? I don't see it, given that the gov't will also be paying subsidies to small businesses to help them cover their employees. Employees under a certain amount will also be covered by medicaid, so that coverage won't necessarily be on the employers.

If you force a business to add additional costs, and they cannot make up those additional costs by raising prics, they have to save the money somewhere. That means either the business doesnt grow as the owner hopes, or the business shrinks. When a business shrinks, that means jobs are cut. About 80% of the people employed in the US are employed by small businesses. Those are the people that are going to be affected by this.


3.) Rationing... the proposed cuts are add-on benefits like gym memberships and such.

Those cuts will go FAR deeper than that. Adding up all of the proposed cuts wont even cover the added amount of fraud.


4.) I don't know what exactly you mean by "He barely even started his term before he started campaigning." Most candidates start campaigning before they are elected, not after they start their terms. :blah:

Are you really this stupid or are you just acting like this to avoid the truth? Obama was elected into the Senate and served in that capacity for about a year before he was campaigning for President full time. Does your job allow you to take paid time off to look for a better job?


BTW, this should apply to ANYONE running for a seat that they do not already hold. If a Congressman is going to run for a seat in the Senate, they should be forced to give up their seat first.

[BanginJimmy]

Its not to "punish" them, its to have a more equal sharing of the tax burden. Right now the lower brackets are stiffed with a disproportionate share.

You might want to look at who is getting stiffed again.

The top 10% of income tax payers make something like 60% of the money and pay about 75% of the taxes. The bottom 50% make something like 30% of the money and pay like 2% of the income taxes.

[efman]

It was easier for BUSH to mess the country up in 8yrs. Its gonna be even harder to build it back up. He cant just make things better in a YEAR. you gotta give him some time ppl. Its gonna take alot more then Obama ta fix this. He's gonna need three terms, and three he doesn't have. MCcain would have been much worst. He was the best they had to offer and thats why he got chose. Besides Obama h as ppl ova him, as your BOSS at work does. Some body is always telling another person what to do. We cant blame it on him on some real shit. There is still ppl above him spit'n out orders.

yea spending billions of dollars we dont have to bail out failing companies is a great way to build our great nation back up, what a joke! obama is like a 17 old girl with daddy's credit card, spend spend spend. obama probally thinks he needs 3 terms to fix this, then 4, then we have a dictatorship, thanks. :2up:

[tony]

The reason Alaska runs at a fiscal surplus is because she made so many cuts in useless programs and streamlined many others. That was why she upset so many republicans in Alaska.

You act like that is uncommon. I know you arent going to sit there and say that every other politician at that level doesnt do the exact same things.

lmaaooooooooooo WTF Jimmy, you're not this dumb are you? I was getting an Alaskan dividend from the age of 1 up to 18 years old.. I was born in 1980 so please explain to me how Palin's cuts somehow retroactively paid my family 26 years before her term. :lmfao:

Obviously there is a very abundant resource in Alaska called oil. They have something else that is lucrative that swims in the water, it's real easy to balance the budget when state revenues are in the multi BILLIONS and there are maybe 700k citizens.

[BanginJimmy]

lmaaooooooooooo WTF Jimmy, you're not this dumb are you? I was getting an Alaskan dividend from the age of 1 up to 18 years old.. I was born in 1980 so please explain to me how Palin's cuts somehow retroactively paid my family 26 years before her term. :lmfao:

So correct me if I am wrong as I'm not going to do the research again, but didnt the dividend enarly double shortly after Palin got into office?


Obviously there is a very abundant resource in Alaska called oil. They have something else that is lucrative that swims in the water, it's real easy to balance the budget when state revenues are in the multi BILLIONS and there are maybe 700k citizens.

Only 700K citizens to pay taxes also. I would imagine the costs to run the state are a lot higher than you think also. I would put any money you would like to throw on it that Alaska pays 5x the amount for infrastructure maintenance than any other state in the Union.

[BABY J]

^ So does Arizona pay 5x more as well?

[tony]

So correct me if I am wrong as I'm not going to do the research again, but didnt the dividend enarly double shortly after Palin got into office?



Only 700K citizens to pay taxes also. I would imagine the costs to run the state are a lot higher than you think also. I would put any money you would like to throw on it that Alaska pays 5x the amount for infrastructure maintenance than any other state in the Union.

700k citizens don't pay taxes, there aren't any state income taxes in Alaska. The dividend didn't double under Palin, its stayed in the $1500 to low $2000 range where it has always been.

[BanginJimmy]

^ So does Arizona pay 5x more as well?

If you think the climate is nearly as destructive in Arizona as it is in Alaska, you are delusional.

[BABY J]

So you don't have an answer? Ok - kool. Thanx. Carry on.

[tony]

One thing I did forget to mention, something Bush could not do his entire term the current administration accomplished last month, zero battle related casualties in Iraq. But I'm sure as commander in chief Obama has nothing to do with that..

[Total_Blender]

Does your job allow you to take paid time off to look for a better job?


BTW, this should apply to ANYONE running for a seat that they do not already hold. If a Congressman is going to run for a seat in the Senate, they should be forced to give up their seat first.

Actually, my job does allow me to take paid time off to look for another job. I can use my paid vacation days to go to interviews and the like. :tongue1:

I sort of agree with you that those in Congress should vacate their seats before they run for other offices though... if they are in Congress they should be devoting their full attention to their offices there. Thats not a left or a right issue, both parties are guilty of this and have been in pretty much every single election in this country ever.

But this past election both candidates did suspend their campaigning for a week to "fix the economy". Not that that worked out very well... :ninja:

[tony]

But this past election both candidates did suspend their campaigning for a week to "fix the economy". Not that that worked out very well... :ninja:

Rhetoric from both sides, I thought that whole thing was bullshit.

[Total_Blender]

Rhetoric from both sides, I thought that whole thing was bullshit.


Exactly. :goodjob:

[Browning151]

1.) Everyone under $29,326 per year is eligible for Medicaid.


More dependants on an already abused and underfunded program, sounds like a good idea.



3.) Employers with more than 50 employees would face fines for not providing coverage.


How do you not see that employers are going to cut jobs to A) get below 50 employees if they are small enough or B) cut non essential employees to use their salary to cover the fines. Companies can either raise prices or cut jobs to cover higher costs, in order to stay competitive in the market place raising prices can only go so far then the jobs start getting cut.




4.) Employees who can afford coverage but choose not to get it also face fines. - not sure how I feel about this yet but I am pretty sure I'm against it.

8.)increased taxes on the "Cadillac" insurance policies.


So you're going to penalize people if they choose not to have coverage, and at the same time penalize people who have coverage that is too good? Who are you or any bureaucrat for that matter to tell me that the coverage that I pay for with my own money that I earn or that my company provides me as part of my benefits package is too good? That sounds pretty ridiculous to me.



7.) Changing the way treatments are billed. Certain treatments will get paid out as a bundle rather than an itemized list of individual services.


Treatments billed as a bundle will only lead to higher costs because it will be easier to hide fraud.



8.) also increased taxes on millionaires


So I guess you have no desire to be wealthy at any point in your life? or does this part not apply to you once you reach that status?



8.) deals with the hospital groups and drug companies


Let's create more places for backdoor deals, kickbacks and pork in what will already be a bloated entitlement program.


I also have one simple point: I would like someone who is a proponent of this healthcare bill to tell me where in the Constitution of The United States it gives the federal government the power to force me to purchase ANYTHING.

[BABY J]

^^ Do you feel that the government has never forced you to purchase anything before?? (fed, local, state). Think about it before you answer.

[Browning151]

^^ Do you feel that the government has never forced you to purchase anything before?? (fed, local, state). Think about it before you answer.

I never said that they haven't forced me to buy something before. Just a quick example: they force me to buy something every month that I don't need, state and federal mandates in the health insurance that I pay for myself. The question wasn't do they already do it or have they done it, it was where in the constitution are they given the power to do so?

Just food for thought for people who think its great that the governement is going to force people to buy something by imposing fines if they don't, I can see that becoming a very slippery slope very easily.

[zspeed24]

^^ Do you feel that the government has never forced you to purchase anything before?? (fed, local, state). Think about it before you answer.


What do they already force us to buy?

[BABY J]

Just look up and educate yourself on the US Constitution Commerce Clause. ;) It is a BIG BEAST and almost has unlimted "powers". A LOT falls under this clause that is not stated. It's basically a back door that allows the gov to do whatever the fuck it wants (so to speak).

[AirMax95]

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress


The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

[Browning151]

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress


The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

How far congress can extend their power under the commerce clause has been long disputed, and through many court cases the interpretation of such has changed many times over the years. The definitions of power are pretty vague, which obviously allows gov't to include a lot of powers under something that was never intended for that purpose. I can certainly see them extending their powers under the "provide for the general welfare" portion of the clause claiming that it will be for the better that everyone has health insurance whether or not they need or want it.

[zspeed24]

Just look up and educate yourself on the US Constitution Commerce Clause. ;) It is a BIG BEAST and almost has unlimted "powers". A LOT falls under this clause that is not stated. It's basically a back door that allows the gov to do whatever the fuck it wants (so to speak).


Still not seeing where it forces us to BUY anything

[Total_Blender]

Still not seeing where it forces us to BUY anything

I'm not for the mandates either for what its worth. I think the right has fucked this process up so bad that in the end the insurance companies will end up writing the legislation and we will end up with something that neither party will be proud of.

The more McConnell and his goons stall, the more corporatist the legislation becomes. We've gone from single payer (as introduced by Ted Kennedy) to mandates for people to purchase private insurance. If these guys aren't going to lead (by introducing a better plan) or follow (by contributing constructive input), they should get out of the way. :crazy:

[One_Bad_SHO]

One thing I did forget to mention, something Bush could not do his entire term the current administration accomplished last month, zero battle related casualties in Iraq. But I'm sure as commander in chief Obama has nothing to do with that..

Really? The war was in a VERY different state than it was when Bush was President. Iraq is a hell of a lot more stable now than it was a year ago. Obama has nothing to do with the fact that there were no battle related casualties. Its the nature of the beast. Under Bush, we cleaned house.

[BanginJimmy]

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;



As we saw a couple weeks ago, this small portion of the Constitution does not apply to Nebraska. They are allowed to pass the complete burden of their medicare expansion to all other states.

[BanginJimmy]

I think the right has fucked this process up so bad that in the end the insurance companies will end up writing the legislation and we will end up with something that neither party will be proud of.

Name a single part of the current legislation that the right has anything to do with.


The more McConnell and his goons stall,

back to the name calling, typical liberal.



the more corporatist the legislation becomes.

The bills were garbage to begin with, thats why dems were forced to bribe other dems to get them through their respective houses. This is also why there are several state Attys General that are looking into the legality of the Nebraska deal that got Nelson on board.



We've gone from single payer (as introduced by Ted Kennedy) to mandates for people to purchase private insurance. If these guys aren't going to lead (by introducing a better plan) or follow (by contributing constructive input), they should get out of the way. :crazy:


Again, you completely ignore the fact that GOP has tried numerous times, in both houses of Congress, to introduce their own legislation. Not once were those bills every allowed to be formally introduced.

Give me one reason to want a single payer system? The massive debt is causes? The rationing? The lower quality care? The massively increased taxes?


Really Blender, your weak arguments have been refuted many times over, yet you still push them. Are these the only ones approved by Obama? Why not come up with something different. Something that would at least make me think for 30 seconds before writing it off as another slogan.

[zspeed24]

Give me one reason to want a single payer system?

Jimmy you know its only "fair"

[BABY J]

I see why I stay out of here now - you people are funny. You talk for 10 pages - yet NO ONE can be taught anything, even when it's presented in the way a 15 year old could understand. No1 is listening - every1 just talks. Fuck it. I'm ashamed that I got pulled back in here. Carry on.

It's back to the Kills-Forum and general car shit I guess.

[BanginJimmy]

Rhetoric from both sides, I thought that whole thing was bullshit.

Something I think we can all agree on. The TARP, the stimulus, and all of the other so called jobs plans have proven to be nothing more than congress spending money we dont have, just to say they are doing something.

[zspeed24]

I responded to your posts and said that i still didn't see where the gov't forces us to buy anything

[tony]

Really? The war was in a VERY different state than it was when Bush was President. Iraq is a hell of a lot more stable now than it was a year ago. Obama has nothing to do with the fact that there were no battle related casualties. Its the nature of the beast. Under Bush, we cleaned house.

The commander in chief has nothing to do with military operations? This has now moved into asinine bickering rather than thought provoking conversation when that rationale is presented. "Its the nature of the beast".. yeah cause its normal for war zones to go an entire month without combat related fatalities.

[BanginJimmy]

I see why I stay out of here now - you people are funny. You talk for 10 pages - yet NO ONE can be taught anything, even when it's presented in the way a 15 year old could understand. No1 is listening - every1 just talks. Fuck it. I'm ashamed that I got pulled back in here. Carry on.

It's back to the Kills-Forum and general car shit I guess.

I went back through the last couple pages and I have yet to see what you presented except a question. When someone asked you to answer that question you point out a vast clause, but you didnt mention anything that we have to buy or face fines.

I have been thinking about this for a while and have yet to come up with anything you are forced to buy.

[BanginJimmy]

The commander in chief has nothing to do with military operations? This has now moved into asinine bickering rather than thought provoking conversation when that rationale is presented. "Its the nature of the beast".. yeah cause its normal for war zones to go an entire month without combat related fatalities.


I see where both of you are going with this and both of you are wrong. Yes, Iraq went a month without any combat related deaths. The simple fact of the matter is that now that the foreign fighters have left Iraq, the emphasis on killing Americans is also gone. At no point was there any emphasis, among Iraqis, to kill americans. They were interested only in sectarian fighting. From day 1 of the insurgency there, it was foreigners that had emphasis on killing Americans.

Where are those foreign fighters now? In Afghanistan were there are more deaths than at any time since early 2002.

[tony]

The simple fact of the matter is that now that the foreign fighters have left Iraq,

They were never there, occupy any country and they will fight plain and simple. Lets go invade Palestine and see how peaceful it is.

[BanginJimmy]

They were never there, occupy any country and they will fight plain and simple. Lets go invade Palestine and see how peaceful it is.

Umm, most of those that were fighting Americans were not Iraqi. That is why the fighting fell off so fast, and started up in Asscrackistan just as quickly. Those foreign fighters followed Al Qeada leadership to Asscrackistan and Yemen after the insurgency in Iraq collapsed.

[One_Bad_SHO]

The commander in chief has nothing to do with military operations? This has now moved into asinine bickering rather than thought provoking conversation when that rationale is presented. "Its the nature of the beast".. yeah cause its normal for war zones to go an entire month without combat related fatalities.

You're not understanding me. To credit him and his administration for being the reason Iraq has not had an American death in over a month is recockulous. There is NOTHING that he has done this past year thats any different than when Bush was in office that would indicate he is the reason there were no deaths for a month. He took over when Iraq was on a downslope from violence and attacks. When Bush was in office, thats when we were cleaning house. We've cleaned house and Iraq is a lot safer NOW during Obamas administration than it was during Bushs. Its just going to get better and better with time. Thats how it works... in most cases at least. Thats not hard to understand.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I see where both of you are going with this and both of you are wrong. Yes, Iraq went a month without any combat related deaths. The simple fact of the matter is that now that the foreign fighters have left Iraq, the emphasis on killing Americans is also gone. At no point was there any emphasis, among Iraqis, to kill americans. They were interested only in sectarian fighting. From day 1 of the insurgency there, it was foreigners that had emphasis on killing Americans.

Where are those foreign fighters now? In Afghanistan were there are more deaths than at any time since early 2002.

That's pretty much what I was getting at. During Bushs administration we pretty much cleaned the foreign fighters out of Iraq. All Obama has done is take over and put his name on Bushs victory, per say.

[Total_Blender]

Do Blackwater and other contractors count as "combat casualties"? Its my understanding that while we may not have as many troops in Iraq lately, there are still a lot of contractors, correct?

[BanginJimmy]

Do Blackwater and other contractors count as "combat casualties"? Its my understanding that while we may not have as many troops in Iraq lately, there are still a lot of contractors, correct?

Blackwater was kicked out of iraq about 2 years ago. The contractors that are there now are pretty much only convoy security and personal security.


And no, they do not count as combat casulities.

[BABY J]

FYI: Blackwater was kicked out "on paper" only.

[BABY J]

They are there as XE and Presidential Airways - as well as another "name" that I can't mention.