Close-minded Christians?

[1zach4]

I'm sick of people on here labelling Christians as "Close-minded"

Why are we considered close-minded? Why are you not close-minded? What makes you more open than Christians?

It just pisses me off because the people that call us close-minded spend all of their time on here putting Christians down, and never actually look at their own lives and try to make some sense of it and think about what might actually happen once they die. Have any of you ever thought about a little something called "eternity"?

I ask all of you to look up some people such as Pastor Johnny Hunt of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, or Tony Nolan of FBCW and TNT Ministries, or Dr. Ergun Caner of Liberty University, or Josh McDowell, and David Nasser.

Look up one or two of them and see what they have to say and then come back and let me know what you think.

Until then, please quit with this close-minded crap, i'm sorry the path to Heaven is narrow and the path to destruction is wide...doesn't mean you have to call me close-minded because you think it is unfair that there is only one way to get into Heaven. God is just, and he wouldn't be a just God if he let just anyone in through any religion now would He?

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

[Killer]

I hear ya man.... though i get the analogy it still doesn't quite fit... but the devil always finds a way to tell u your wrong about Christianity... It can come from people, or life experciences... But that's just another way to prove you're right... When us Christians start speaking the truth, or doing what God wants us to do... the satan is always gonna try to stop us.... so just keep on keepin on man.. God bless!

[The Yousef]

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.


we'll all find out sooner or later if your ''theory'' is correct also :goodjob:

yousef

[collins]

lol yousef. you crazy mofo. see, you need to check out people such as our club.. if you call us closed minded, then, wow. lol we've got me and jm on the christian side (no we're not hard core, but we do have our beliefs), yousef on the muslim side, josh, karen, and mikey (mikey's not actually inthe club, but he hangs all the time with us) oh the jewish side, and we all get along as one big happy family. we accept each other's beliefs and leave it at that. if someone wants to join in on any given religion, they'll find their way to it.

[malfeas99]

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

The fact that you actually think such a corollary is legitimate shows me that you have far more serious problems than being narrow-minded.

You just can't think, period.

[1zach4]

thanks killer...I spent a lot of time in prayer last night and before I even read what you wrote that is what I felt God was telling me.

Even though a majority of the people on here will call other Christians close-minded and ignorant, I have to keep on trying to get the Word out to them because all of the negative feedback is just Satan trying to keep me from telling people about Jesus. If even one person on this board read something I wrote and it planted a seed in their mind about Jesus that He later cultivated and saved that person...I'd be completely satsfied

[1zach4]

i'm not saying my example is "legitimate" it is just an analogy to get people to think...

telling me that I can't think, and looking at my analogy that way shows me that you weren't thinking.

[tony]

The fact that you actually think such a corollary is legitimate shows me that you have far more serious problems than being narrow-minded.

You just can't think, period.


I have to agree here, I dont criticize christians but damn if a good majority arent the most closed minded people I've ever met. Quick to cast stones with glass houses, I grew up christian so I've been there. Many believe that their way of life is the only way of life, that they are the righteous and the rest will just burn in hell because they dont have the same faith.

Its so funny because I've never questioned god but I do question those christians that feel they have the right to point fingers. Do you know my relationship with god? No, then you cant judge what I do.

In all honesty I look at the whole heaven and hell thing as a metaphor rather than a place. I may not be in church every sunday but if I leave this earth KNOWING I made a difference in someones life that was positive, especially my son then my soul will rest peacefully regardless of what is waiting for me on the other side, it really pisses me off when people try to use heaven and hell as a scare tactic to get people in church and pay tithes.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not attacking you personally but you brought up the subject, this is my response.

[1zach4]

Heaven and Hell is not just a "scare tactic"

People that call it a scare tactic are the ones that just can't seem to fathom that God, being such a loving, just, and righteous God, would actually condemn someone to eternity away from Him in Hell.

If you call it a scare tactic it is because you don't want to believe that if you live a "good life" you can still go to Hell. There have been Nobel Peace Prize winners that were not Christians when they died...Ghandi was not a Christian...other great people throughout history were not Christian...guess where they are right now? Hell...simple as that. Anyone that has ever lived throughout history is still alive...either in Heaven, or Hell. Get used to it.

[malfeas99]

i'm not saying my example is "legitimate" it is just an analogy to get people to think...

telling me that I can't think, and looking at my analogy that way shows me that you weren't thinking.

It is a completely fallacious analogy.

You are comparing physical roads to the tenets of different religions. Using your example, obviously not all roads lead to the same place, but did it occur to you that perhaps there's more than one destination, beyond your heaven and your hell?

No, it didn't, because you thought there was a hell before Jesus, and that everyone went there, because before him it was REALLY HARD to go to heaven.

There's nothing worse than a stupid zealot.

[1zach4]

Do some more research malfeas before you call me a "stupid" zealot.

You won't be laughing if you're not on the right side of your salvation when Jesus returns or you die

[tony]

Heaven and Hell is not just a "scare tactic"

People that call it a scare tactic are the ones that just can't seem to fathom that God, being such a loving, just, and righteous God, would actually condemn someone to eternity away from Him in Hell.

If you call it a scare tactic it is because you don't want to believe that if you live a "good life" you can still go to Hell. There have been Nobel Peace Prize winners that were not Christians when they died...Ghandi was not a Christian...other great people throughout history were not Christian...guess where they are right now? Hell...simple as that. Anyone that has ever lived throughout history is still alive...either in Heaven, or Hell. Get used to it.


You proved my point with that post right there.. first who are you to say if they are in heaven or hell? You only know what you have read, did you know the man? Did you know his relationship with god? No, and just the fact that you say "get used to it" only proves how closed minded you are because to you there is no other way.

[malfeas99]

Do some more research malfeas before you call me a "stupid" zealot.

You won't be laughing if you're not on the right side of your salvation when Jesus returns or you die

As has been demonstrated in other threads, I am far more well versed in theology (both in your own religion and others) than you.

This only makes your position more embarassing for yourself.

I'm done with you, I could get a better conversation from my dog.

Beware, 1zach4, the Keebler elves are the true lords and saviors, they are the only true path to heaven! Laugh now, but you won't be giggling when you're burning in the fires of their cookie ovens! How do I know this? Because this book 'The Keebler Elves Are Awesome' says so!

Sound stupid? That's how you sound to everyone else. Get used to -that-, poindexter.

[quickdodge®]

Goddamn(ooops) 1Zach4, shut the fucc up will you! I'veproven to you time and time again that you are close-minded and I am not. Does all this prayer that you do inhibit your reading skills..or maybe your comprehension skills? Hey! I think Holy Rollers car club is calling you. Later, QD.

[1zach4]

i'm going to leave on this note right here:

Jesus Christ is Lord, and the only way to Heaven is through Him. If you try any other way you will come up terribly short. My faith will get me into Heaven, and I will pray for the rest of you.

[tony]

I'll leave the thread with a quote from Tupac:

"We probably in Hell already, our dumb asses not knowin
Everybody kissin ass to go to heaven ain't goin"

[quickdodge®]

i'm going to leave on this note right here:

Jesus Christ is Lord, and the only way to Heaven is through Him. If you try any other way you will come up terribly short. My faith will get me into Heaven, and I will pray for the rest of you.

I don't need your prayer, dude. Later, QD.

[1zach4]

If you are not Christian then i'm afraid you do

[quickdodge®]

Who said I wasn't?

Even if I am or not..no I don't. Later, QD.

[1zach4]

I'll be praying for you

[quickdodge®]

What happened to you leaving this thread?

Is your "faith" telling you not to? Your work is not done until you convince these lost souls to join us. Pray for them, my child, lest thoust doesn'st knowest what the hell is goingst on.

Later, QD.

[1zach4]

once again...i'll pray for you, because you need it

[malfeas99]

Question: How would praying for someone help? What precisely are you praying for?

I mean, the only thing you could pray is that someone would 'come to their senses' and accept your narrowly and strictly defined cosmology.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If God is the kind of person that would take someone like you into heaven, and send someone like Ghandi to hell, then I think I'll go ahead and pick hell just on principle.

I do not want to spend eternity with your inanity.

Actually, my hell may just end up being to join you in heaven, and have to deal with you and people like you every day, all day, for the rest of eternity.

Fuck.

[C22H19N3O4]

Dear Jesus Junkie (aka Zach),
Please read the following quote very carefully:
"The man who is always worrying about whether or not his soul would be damned generally has a soul that isn’t worth a damn." Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

[1zach4]

Dear pharm teg,
I don't worry about whether or not my soul would be damned, because I know that when I die, I will be in Heaven for eternity with my Savior Jesus Christ.

and Malfeas99...your insults don't hurt me or shake my faith...so save yourself some time and quit trying to put me down because i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

[quickdodge®]

i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

How contradictory. You don't know the truth. You think you know the truth. Remember. You base your "knowledge" on faith, not facts. How conveniently you forget that shit. You don't really know shit. Later, QD.

[malfeas99]

Dear pharm teg,
I don't worry about whether or not my soul would be damned, because I know that when I die, I will be in Heaven for eternity with my Savior Jesus Christ.

and Malfeas99...your insults don't hurt me or shake my faith...so save yourself some time and quit trying to put me down because i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

You wouldn't need faith if religion was based on fact. I don't know why you even bother making the audacious claim that christianity is somehow 'fact based'. If that were the case, there'd be no faith necessary.

[The Yousef]

wow....1zach4 is making a great case on how he's not a close minded christian...:lmfao:

yousef

[4dmin]

isn't open-mindness "curiosity"...??? isn't that what happened in the garden of eden? look where it got your people... so w/ that said how can a christian be open minded?

[Jimmy B]

i am christian, and i am open minded,... i listen, and respect other religions, but i will always try to get anyone and everyone to a christian church, because that is what i believe is right, and the way to heaven, Jesus Christ, and God..

call me close minded, but that is what i beleve.. others believe there religions, but im not calling you close minded..

i do try to find out what otehr religions are all about, im not changing from christianiaty, but i do like to know what goes on.

Zach, i like what you are doing, but in a diverse crowd like this, you cant preach so hard... tone it down a little bit, and peopel will respect it a little more, and might be intristed in it, rather than pushing it away so fast....

[Wedge]

I see it the other way around.. the people that don't want to admit that there even is a chance that there might be a God or even think that there could be are closed minded

[ISAtlanta300]

isn't open-mindness "curiosity"...??? isn't that what happened in the garden of eden? look where it got your people... so w/ that said how can a christian be open minded?

Nah that was disobedience... :)

[1zach4]

finally some people somewhat on my side...or technically Christ's side.

[4dmin]

Nah that was disobedience... :)

so your a slave/dog/puppet???

[quickdodge®]

i will always try to get anyone and everyone to a christian church.

That is what I hate about Christian people. Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

I see it the other way around.. the people that don't want to admit that there even is a chance that there might be a God or even think that there could be are closed minded

I never said that. All you idiots keep assuming that I don't believe just because I'm not stupidly inclined about it. Later, QD.

[Jimmy B]

That is what I hate about Christian people. Later, QD.

i will try to get non-believers to church mike, but i dont push.. i believe(opinion) that everyone has a time and place to hear the gospel.. but im not going to preach down your throught to get you there, that jsut pushes people away...

[ISAtlanta300]

so your a slave/dog/puppet???

No, are you? I mean u are following rules everyday right?

If God tells you not to eat from the tree, why do you feel the need to test him?

It is like God telling you not to jump off the cliff because you will die, and you doing it to "test" to see if it is true....

[4dmin]

No, are you? I mean u are following rules everyday right?

If God tells you not to eat from the tree, why do you feel the need to test him?

It is like God telling you not to jump off the cliff because you will die, and you doing it to "test" to see if it is true....

like i said how is obeying being OPEN-MINDED?

[b18hb]

like i said how is obeying being OPEN-MINDED?

how is obeying being close-minded? perhaps in extreme cases, some christians could be considered that way (the renaissance), but christians have tolerated and lived alongside people with other beliefs since it originated. sure they teach their religion and attempt to draw people to it, because they believe it is right. christians learn about different beliefs throughout their lives, and most are receptive to many of the ideas or concepts that different beliefs present.

i do think it is incorrect to consider a christian close-minded because they won't try out a different religion or belief system. christianity is a way of life. people are not born christians and have to make a decision as to accept it or deny it. before they accept christ, i'd say they're in that state of open-mindedness that you refer to. they utilize that open-mindedness and make an educated decsion based on what they've learned. once they've accepted the belief system, however, they become somewhat limited as to what behavior is accepted. this isn't to say that they are close minded to that behavior (many christians bathed in some of the activites that christianity prohibits before they took on the religion), but that in their open-mindedness, chose christianity over that behavior.

open-minded is to have an understanding or a knowlege of something, be it first or second hand

close-minded is to deny any and all information relating to something.

[metalman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If God is the kind of person that would take someone like you into heaven, and send someone like Ghandi to hell, then I think I'll go ahead and pick hell just on principle.

I do not want to spend eternity with your inanity.

Although I understand some of your sentiment and even agree on some level I must say this....

Not to say I know or have any idea where anyone here will end up, I'm not the Judge....God is...thats the neat thing about God...he doesnt force anyone to live with Him in heaven, if you (or I) dont want to go there you (or I) won't..you'll (we'll) end up in the opposite "place"...right where you (or we) wanted to go and chose to be. ;)

There is only one thing we all are forced to do whether we think so or not...thats choose. We can choose life, we can choose death...theres absolutely no way to do neither.

That being said, if youre bothered by many of the professed "christians" as I often am, take comfort, don't be distracted by them, most people who "profess" Christianity won't be in heaven...thats what the good Book teaches.

PEACE

[Hulud]

ok i hope this isnt referring to anything i have stated.
cause i have NEVER said that all christians are close minded

[Hulud]

I see it the other way around.. the people that don't want to admit that there even is a chance that there might be a God or even think that there could be are closed minded
name one person on here like that

[4dmin]

open-minded is to have an understanding or a knowlege of something, be it first or second hand

close-minded is to deny any and all information relating to something.

thats the problem w/ most christians they do know UNDERSTAND or KNOW they own religion enough to know of anything else....

*and before the pitchfork & torch marches start against my generalization...

i am correct with those statements, most christians do not even practice their religion, you can see it day in and day out on any given street/home/town etc...

with that said you are not knowlegable if you don't even know what you claim to practice.

[metalman]

most christians do not even practice their religion, you can see it day in and day out on any given street/home/town etc....

Here here. I will have to definitely agree with that.
Most only "profess" their christian religion, which in simple terms would be to love one another as themselves. Instead most professed "christians" treat others like crap....or worse. One has to look no father then history to see that millions have been burned at the stake, tortured, brutalized etc....all the the name of "christianity"....but alas, these/those are NOT the true Christians. ;)

[b18hb]

thats the problem w/ most christians they do know UNDERSTAND or KNOW they own religion enough to know of anything else....

*and before the pitchfork & torch marches start against my generalization...

i am correct with those statements, most christians do not even practice their religion, you can see it day in and day out on any given street/home/town etc...

with that said you are not knowlegable if you don't even know what you claim to practice.

i have not seen any polls to support this, but with the impression i'm left, it does appear that most christians fail in their efforts to live by the good book. however, i do think that it is more likely that christians who have been babtised (not people who say they're christians exclusively because they believe in god or their parents brought them up that way) are much more likely to put an effort forward in living as instructed.

it is impossible to go through life as a normal individual without committing sin. according to the bible, jesus was the only man, who also happened to be the son of god, to live life without sin. what the bible instructs is for you to recognize that sin and eliminate it by doing whatever it takes. you're constantly molding yourself. naturally, some folks are more dedicated than others and make more efficient progress accordingly.

i also agree with the part of your statement referring to people's knowlege of christianity. i am certainly not as educated as i feel i should be, but i do understand most of the concepts and i am able to implement right and wrong (for the most part). i do not know every detail, but i do not feel like it is necessary to know every nook and cranny of the religion (although more complete knowledge does lead to better discussion). i disagree with the second part of your remark however, because i feel like you can have a basic understanding of other religions or belief systems without having a complete understanding of your own. the information relating to other religion is not dependent on one's knowledge of their own religion.

i revert to what i said previously. a person isn't born a christian, they decided to take it in. a person chooses christianity over all other options, all of which have been studied in depth and certainly create an opportunity to educate oneself in order to make the best decision.

[soobaroo227]

Here's an example of how hypocritical some people down here in the Bible-Belt can be. I went to a small college for my first two years. In class one day, I talked about how I felt a lot of the self-proclaimed church goers are nothing but hypocrites. I talked about how I prefer to just pray alone and only share God with myself or friends/family rather than go to Church because of the way many people are. I, in no way am claiming to follow the religion to a T because I admit that I am nowhere close to being a perfect person. I commit sins every day. Anyways, back to the story, what ended up with the result of my talk about the Church? Well, my car got nicely christened by one of those hypocrites. I had the new addition of two, big Jesus fishes on the hood of my car. Some high and mighty Christian that didn't like what I said obviously felt they'd try to ingrain Christianity into my car or something. I'm sorry, but people in the Bible-Belt are close-minded and are hypocritical. I've had many friends from many areas of the world with many different religions and I've never tried to force Christianity on them. That is their choice, they know I'm a Christian, and if they want to talk about it, then I'll talk about it.

[kppk1986]

soobaroo not to be a fag.... but to say that you are a christian and you only tell ppl about christ when they want to hear it is against the whole reason why we are here.... Christians are here to inform others about gods love not just keep it to ourselves untill someone asks.... i say this because if you truly cared about ur friends you would want to tell them about the only way for them to go to heaven. And GOD loves you all christian and atheist alike...

[True Pyroman]

undojesus.org

[b@d @pple]

what the fuck is wrong with you fuckin people...didnt you know that worshipping god is the only way to get to heaven and,not to mention,WASTE ALL YOUR FUCKIN TIME......believe what what you wish,just shut the fuck up about it,this is why i HATE your choices,you pushy fuckin assholes..SHUT THE FUCK UP ....GO TO CHURCH ALL YOU WANT,TRY TO GET PEOPLE SAVED,DO WHAT YOU WANT,BUT WHEN SOMEONE REJECTS YOUR BELIEFS DONT JUDGE THEM...JUST REMEMBER WORSHIPPING A GOD IS A PERSONAL CHOICE FOR YOU ,NOT FOR ALL OF US TO HEAR ABOUT..I PERSONALLY DONT GIVE A FUCK,SO SHUT UP...OH YEA AND GOD HATES YOU AND IF JESUS COMES BACK WE WILL KILL HIM AGAIN..NOW FUCK OFF!

[SLOWR/T]

OH YEA AND GOD HATES YOU AND IF JESUS COMES BACK WE WILL KILL HIM AGAIN..NOW FUCK OFF!

hahahaha your a dumbass!! "we" as you say didnt kill Jesus. he was sacrificed not killed. i dont go to church but i believe in Jesus and God. thats all that really matters to be honest. but you, you are a complete fool. and no im not judging you saying you will go to hell or what not but that statement just shows your a dumbass.

[quickdodge®]

1.
hahahaha your a dumbass!!

2.
but you, you are a complete fool.

3.
just shows your a dumbass.

4.
and no im not judging you

Notice, if you will, how the first three comments are negative comments towards another person. Then take a look at #4. You, sir, are the true Christians that make Christianity look bad. Hypocritical in the same goddamn sentence. Later, QD.

[PhatbacK]

:smileowne

[SLOWR/T]

Notice, if you will, how the first three comments are negative comments towards another person. Then take a look at #4. You, sir, are the true Christians that make Christianity look bad. Hypocritical in the same goddamn sentence. Later, QD.

just because they are negative remarks does not mean that i judged him. i said that his comments were pretty much were stupid. i didnt say he was going to hell or anything of that matter in my comment. now if i would have said that he was going to hell casue what he typed then that would be judging him. i can say your a jackass and not be judging you. thats just me calling you a jackass (not meaning that you QD are a jackass just using a example)

here:

Main Entry: 1neg·a·tive
Pronunciation: 'ne-g&-tiv
Function: adjective
1 a : marked by denial, prohibition, or refusal <received a negative answer>; also : marked by absence, withholding, or removal of something positive <the negative motivation of shame -- Garrett Hardin> b (1) : denying a predicate of a subject or a part of a subject <"no A is B" is a negative proposition> (2) : denoting the absence or the contradictory of something <nontoxic is a negative term> (3) : expressing negation <negative particles such as no and not> c : ADVERSE, UNFAVORABLE <the reviews were mostly negative>
2 a : lacking positive qualities; especially : DISAGREEABLE b : marked by features of hostility, withdrawal, or pessimism that hinder or oppose constructive treatment or development <a negative outlook> <negative criticism>
3 a (1) : less than zero and opposite in sign to a positive number that when added to the given number yields zero <-2 is a negative number> (2) : having more outgo than income : constituting a loss <negative cash flow> <negative worth> b : extending or generated in a direction opposite to an arbitrarily chosen regular direction or position <negative angle>
4 a : being, relating to, or charged with electricity of which the electron is the elementary unit b : having more electrons than protons <a negative ion> c (1) : having lower electric potential and constituting the part toward which the current flows from the external circuit <the negative pole> (2) : being the electron-emitting electrode of an electron tube
5 a : not affirming the presence of the organism or condition in question <a negative TB test> b : directed or moving away from a source of stimulation <negative tropism> c : less than the pressure of the atmosphere <negative pressure>
6 : having the light and dark parts in approximately inverse order to those of the original photographic subject
7 of a lens : diverging light rays and forming a virtual inverted image

and here:

Main Entry: 1judge
Pronunciation: 'j&j
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): judged; judg·ing
Etymology: Middle English juggen, from Old French jugier, from Latin judicare, from judic-, judex judge, from jus right, law + dicere to decide, say -- more at JUST, DICTION
transitive senses
1 : to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
2 : to sit in judgment on : TRY
3 : to determine or pronounce after inquiry and deliberation
4 : GOVERN, RULE -- used of a Hebrew tribal leader
5 : to form an estimate or evaluation of; especially : to form a negative opinion about <shouldn't judge him because of his accent>
6 : to hold as an opinion : GUESS, THINK <I judge she knew what she was doing>
intransitive senses
1 : to form an opinion
2 : to decide as a judge

[SLOWR/T]

and just for some extra measures here

Main Entry: judg·ment
Variant(s): or judge·ment /'j&j-m&nt/
Function: noun
1 a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so pronounced
2 a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt) created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree
3 a capitalized : the final judging of mankind by God b : a divine sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God
4 a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed
5 a : the capacity for judging : DISCERNMENT b : the exercise of this capacity
6 : a proposition stating something believed or asserted

[quickdodge®]

I didn't read all that, past your first paragraph, but I am assuming you were pasting the definition of "judging." You point blank called him a dumbass and a complete fool. You called him that by his post. That was judging him by what he posted. Same thing if you were to call me a dumbass. You just judged me to be a dumbass(not saying or thinking you did call me one). You don't know I'm a dumbass. You just think I am by what I post. Later, QD.

[SLOWR/T]

5 : to form an estimate or evaluation of; especially : to form a negative opinion about <shouldn't judge him because of his accent>


well i stand corrected by my own post. i reread it more carefully and i was wrong.

[quickdodge®]

Lolol. Later, QD.

[Trey]

Take off the blinders and think for a minute, how can one religion be right and all the others are wrong?

Why not say everyone worships the same God, Alla, Buddah, ect and have their own spin on how things came to be based on the "stories" they've been taught over thousands of years.

All the fighting and wars brought on by religion would be for nothing.

You can't honestly think you are right and the rest of the religious world is wrong can you? THAT is close minded. ;)

[TCM]

Take off the blinders and think for a minute, how can one religion be right and all the others are wrong?

Why not say everyone worships the same God, Alla, Buddah, ect and have their own spin on how things came to be based on the "stories" they've been taught over thousands of years.

All the fighting and wars brought on by religion would be for nothing.

You can't honestly think you are right and the rest of the religious world is wrong can you? THAT is close minded. ;)
I completely agree with this statement more than any other i have read over this entire post.....I grew up in a VERY Christian family and went to church 3 times a week until i was 13 years old. I quit when I couldnt get my questions answered by my own family. I believe that Christians are good people at heart and live a very respectable and moral life as a whole, but whose to say that following a book written by other men (and "revised" many times over history) is what makes you rightoeus and gets you into "heaven." There are so many similarities between all the religions of the world that no one that is not ignorant could proclaim any one else is destined to go to "hell" because of their religion.

[b@d @pple]

hahahaha your a dumbass!! "we" as you say didnt kill Jesus. he was sacrificed not killed. i dont go to church but i believe in Jesus and God. thats all that really matters to be honest. but you, you are a complete fool. and no im not judging you saying you will go to hell or what not but that statement just shows your a dumbass.


typical! tisk tisk!..GOD HATES YOU!

[trini_gsr]

i'm new to IA and have been reading through these forums...i gotta comment on this one...

now i grew up as a christian and i still accept the Bible as a valuable spiritual guide. but the idea that the bible is the ONLY way to 'salvation', when you honestly look at it with a critical mind, is a pretty ridiculous notion. how can one honestly believe something as boundless and infinite as God would have to be can be described in ONLY one way?

look at how many languages and cultures the world has. i'm black...so looking at it from an african perspective, for example, there are some things that some african tribes experience in their cosmology/spirituality that can't even be described correctly with English words. stuff that we can't even understand or relate to about what they believe, simply because we grew up in a Western society built upon western philosophical ideas (this is another topic by itself). and vice versa. the idea of Jesus seems as ludicrous to them as voodoo and ancestor worship might seem to us. but talk to a christian about prayer to God or these ppl about prayer to an ancestor, and they'll believe in it same way, and have experiences to back up their belief. honestly speaking...it's mad close-minded and ignorant to feel like your view is right and they are wrong.

that's like being in your house and thinking you can describe all of outside by just looking out of one window. You might see trees, someone looking elsewhere might see mountains, someone else with a different view might see a lake. But each of these 'views' are just pieces of the entire picture...we'll never get to see or understand it entirely from our frame of reference (being inside the house).

the thing to do is use the tools that work best for you in your context...and not to be afraid to use new ones if the need arises...all while keeping true to yourself.

[metalman]

i'm new to IA and have been reading through these forums...i gotta comment on this one...

now i grew up as a christian and i still accept the Bible as a valuable spiritual guide. but the idea that the bible is the ONLY way to 'salvation', when you honestly look at it with a critical mind, is a pretty ridiculous notion. how can one honestly believe something as boundless and infinite as God would have to be can be described in ONLY one way?

look at how many languages and cultures the world has. i'm black...so looking at it from an african perspective, for example, there are some things that some african tribes experience in their cosmology/spirituality that can't even be described correctly with English words. stuff that we can't even understand or relate to about what they believe, simply because we grew up in a Western society built upon western philosophical ideas (this is another topic by itself). and vice versa. the idea of Jesus seems as ludicrous to them as voodoo and ancestor worship might seem to us. but talk to a christian about prayer to God or these ppl about prayer to an ancestor, and they'll believe in it same way, and have experiences to back up their belief. honestly speaking...it's mad close-minded and ignorant to feel like your view is right and they are wrong.

that's like being in your house and thinking you can describe all of outside by just looking out of one window. You might see trees, someone looking elsewhere might see mountains, someone else with a different view might see a lake. But each of these 'views' are just pieces of the entire picture...we'll never get to see or understand it entirely from our frame of reference (being inside the house).

the thing to do is use the tools that work best for you in your context...and not to be afraid to use new ones if the need arises...all while keeping true to yourself.

The fact that there are many other gods is no surprise. The reasoning that because a religion exists therefore it is valid is also flawed. The fact that jungle natives pray to frogs, their ancestors, a tree stump or some god named dagon, baal, or billybob is proof of only one thing...idolatry and false gods exist. This is evidence of the Bible being correct in that the devil has been working hard eveywhere to decieve humans. Those gods have no saving power. Although the names differ with cultures there are commonalities shared by most all those gods. Make no mistake, although many of those names are just varieties of the same false god, virtually none are of the Creator. The foundation of Christianity is that there is but one real living Creator who made the universe and its inhabitants. He does have many different names but dagon, baal, billybob and all the others are not Him. His creatures either acknowledge him or not. Worship of creation instead of the Creator is itself idolotry.

In fact if you study carefully there are really only two paths a human being can be on, regardless of their original religion or lack of it. They (we all) are either on the path to eternal life or the highway to eternal death.

[trini_gsr]

The fact that there are many other gods is no surprise. The reasoning that because a religion exists therefore it is valid is also flawed. The fact that jungle natives pray to frogs, their ancestors, a tree stump or some god named dagon, baal, or billybob is proof of only one thing...idolatry and false gods exist. This is evidence of the Bible being correct in that the devil has been working hard eveywhere to decieve humans. Those gods have no saving power. Although the names differ with cultures there are commonalities shared by most all those gods. Make no mistake, although many of those names are just varieties of the same false god, virtually none are of the Creator. The foundation of Christianity is that there is but one real living Creator who made the universe and its inhabitants. He does have many different names but dagon, baal, billybob and all the others are not Him. His creatures either acknowledge him or not. Worship of creation instead of the Creator is itself idolotry.

good answer, i actually agree with you partially on this. i never said and i certainly do not believe that every single religion on the planet is valid. the key is to look at them objectively and critically (the Bible actually instructs to do this) to see if they make sense. and when i say objectively, it means that you set aside your biases and notions and look at ALL the FACTS before judging.

the idea of one creator creating the universe, or even the general concept of salvation of the soul, is neither unique or even original to christianity. some of those very same 'jungle natives' believe the same thing, and have been believing it long before hebrews walked the earth or moses decided to write anything down. even the idea/word 'worship' as we understand it is a very loose and probably inaccurate way of describing their respect/reverence for their 'tree stumps' or 'frogs'. it's a LOT more complicated than that...this is the same ignorant attitude that drove the Crusades, the Dark Ages, and even the institution of slavery.


In fact if you study carefully there are really only two paths a human being can be on, regardless of their original religion or lack of it. They (we all) are either on the path to eternal life or the highway to eternal death.

I agree 100% on this. but remember, the goal of trodding the path of righteousness is not the destination, but making the journey itself ;)

[metalman]

the idea of one creator creating the universe, or even the general concept of salvation of the soul, is neither unique or even original to christianity. some of those very same 'jungle natives' believe the same thing, and have been believing it long before hebrews walked the earth or moses decided to write anything down. even the idea/word 'worship' as we understand it is a very loose and probably inaccurate way of describing their respect/reverence for their 'tree stumps' or 'frogs'. it's a LOT more complicated than that...this is the same ignorant attitude that drove the Crusades, the Dark Ages, and even the institution of slavery.


It is true that peoples have existed and been "discovered" that indeed had some understanding of the Creator and worshipped Him. This is not common however and in fact is extremely rare. Some people for example, think that american indians worshiped the "great spirit"...in fact they like the people in the time of Noahs flood worshiped the creature much more then the Creator.

As for the Dark Ages & Crusades, the ignorance that fueled those times was in fact the papacy/catholcism. It was the church that kept people from even reading the Bible (punishable by death in fact) and kept people ignorant and in the dark. The church efforts to wipe out heritics and "unbelievers" led to much death....tens of millions. Some historians say as many as 300 million.

[Malana]

As for the Dark Ages & Crusades, the ignorance that fueled those times was in fact the papacy/catholcism. It was the church that kept people from even reading the Bible (punishable by death in fact) and kept people ignorant and in the dark. The church efforts to wipe out heritics and "unbelievers" led to much death....tens of millions. Some historians say as many as 300 million.


Oh for goodness sake... this isn't the least bit true.

[CiViCCuTie]

there are close minded people of every religion...

[fight club]

if you really wish to say that islam, judaism, and the other religions praising a sole creator are in fact the work of the devil, it makes you a closed minded person. If you truely were christian, the definition being someone living christ-like, you would accept those people, as he did the countless people he was around. the bible is man made, just like the koran, and every other holy book. it is a spiritual guide, a map if you will, that mankind in a specific region has written in order to lead ourselves into a live of righteousness and salvation. to use the correct metaphor of roads in atlanta,

the worlds religions would be like the perimeter, where 20, 95, 75, and numerous other roads intertwine to simply lead us to Atlanta. Who is to say the only true way to get to atlanta is to take 75? what if your in Augusta, and 20 is the only way there? you still end up in atlanta, and you still left your home with the goal to end up there.

that is what religions in the world are. they are creations of different geographic regions, different cultures, the true greatest work of mankind. they lead us to the place we wish to be, in their case, eternal happiness with our creator. and they serve another perpose than just showing us the way.religions pass on the true teachings of our god.they are the true teachers of diversity and acceptance. instead of hating or judging someone for their religion, and trying to convert them to your way, find the awe you should feel in the knowledge that even tho they are from a lifetime away, they still believe the same principle as you; there is something greater. That is the true miricle of God.

[CiViCCuTie]

if you really wish to say that islam, judaism, and the other religions praising a sole creator are in fact the work of the devil, it makes you a closed minded person. If you truely were christian, the definition being someone living christ-like, you would accept those people, as he did the countless people he was around.
that is what religions in the world are. they are creations of different geographic regions, different cultures, the true greatest work of mankind. they lead us to the place we wish to be, in their case, eternal happiness with our creator. and they serve another perpose than just showing us the way.religions pass on the true teachings of our god.they are the true teachers of diversity and acceptance. instead of hating or judging someone for their religion, and trying to convert them to your way, find the awe you should feel in the knowledge that even tho they are from a lifetime away, they still believe the same principle as you; there is something greater. That is the true miricle of God.

+1239845987459874 for you!

BTW this is directed towards the "Narrow or Close Minded"...

Surprisingly enough if you say that Jewish people are going to hell then what does that make the christian...the Jewish people are what you come from! And to say that Islamics are going to hell well they believe in Jesus...they also follow the Old testament along with the Qur'an...Hindus practice peace and harmony...as so do Buddists...they believe in ONE CREATOR...IF YOU ARE NARROW MINDED...take a World Religions class...get over yourself and open up...trust me the devil won't get you!

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi...he taught that every man and woman are children of God and that there should be peace...If he were to come back today he would probably be upset at all of the people who believe in him, that are very close minded and prejudice...

The people who don't want to admit another religion may be right, don't do so to keep themselves from looking like they are wrong...NO religion is the RIGHT AND JUST religion, EVERY RELIGION IS RIGHT...If you take every religion into account they have similarities...Communities, Belief System, Rituals, Ethics, and things they hold sacred...religions who don't believe in Jesus Christ don't do so because there were a lot of religions already established at that point...by saying they must change what they believe to satisfy is unheard of and is CLOSE MINDED...

And who is to say who will go to heaven or hell...its no one who resides on earth...only G-D has the right to judge ANYONE not joe schmo down the road...And G-D is a forgiving being...if you repent and ask for forgiveness does it not say he will forgive...and by saying G-D will not love you if you are not christian is INDEED breaking the 3rd commandment...Deuteronomy 5:11 "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain."...That doesn't only mean saying GOD Da... or any other obscenity it also means saying that you know what HIS plan is for that person or persons...So if you are such a GOOD CHRISTIAN why don't you follow the 10 commandments as do other religions before you and Not put yourself so high up on a pedestal...Only G-D can be put on a pedestal and he HIMSELF is the only one that can judge...

Oh by the way this is all coming from a person whos been through Christianity, Catholicism, and Judaism...I now am agnostic...But I believe there is a higher being...I don't care what you have to say, so please save your thoughts and prejudice teachings to yourself...And I will not need your prayers because You do not know my relationship with G-D

[Dragonfly5338]

+1239845987459874 for you!

BTW this is directed towards the "Narrow or Close Minded"...

Surprisingly enough if you say that Jewish people are going to hell then what does that make the christian...the Jewish people are what you come from! And to say that Islamics are going to hell well they believe in Jesus...they also follow the Old testament along with the Qur'an...Hindus practice peace and harmony...as so do Buddists...they believe in ONE CREATOR...IF YOU ARE NARROW MINDED...take a World Religions class...get over yourself and open up...trust me the devil won't get you!

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi...he taught that every man and woman are children of God and that there should be peace...If he were to come back today he would probably be upset at all of the people who believe in him, that are very close minded and prejudice...

The people who don't want to admit another religion may be right, don't do so to keep themselves from looking like they are wrong...NO religion is the RIGHT AND JUST religion, EVERY RELIGION IS RIGHT...If you take every religion into account they have similarities...Communities, Belief System, Rituals, Ethics, and things they hold sacred...religions who don't believe in Jesus Christ don't do so because there were a lot of religions already established at that point...by saying they must change what they believe to satisfy is unheard of and is CLOSE MINDED...

And who is to say who will go to heaven or hell...its no one who resides on earth...only G-D has the right to judge ANYONE not joe schmo down the road...And G-D is a forgiving being...if you repent and ask for forgiveness does it not say he will forgive...and by saying G-D will not love you if you are not christian is INDEED breaking the 3rd commandment...Deuteronomy 5:11 "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain."...That doesn't only mean saying GOD Da... or any other obscenity it also means saying that you know what HIS plan is for that person or persons...So if you are such a GOOD CHRISTIAN why don't you follow the 10 commandments as do other religions before you and Not put yourself so high up on a pedestal...Only G-D can be put on a pedestal and he HIMSELF is the only one that can judge...

Oh by the way this is all coming from a person whos been through Christianity, Catholicism, and Judaism...I now am agnostic...But I believe there is a higher being...I don't care what you have to say, so please save your thoughts and prejudice teachings to yourself...And I will not need your prayers because You do not know my relationship with G-D

I think you suck. But very good points there. :goodjob:

[{X}Echo419]

I have a few comments to make to some of the above statements:
actually it does say in the bible that if we ask Jesus/GGod for forgiveness. that's the whole purpose of Jesus' death. otherwise it would have said Jesus died died for man's sins "maybe".
syaing GD is not taking the Gods name in vain. God's name is Jehova(spelling) so saying JD would count> at least thatr's my intrepretation.
you don't have to be a christian to be close-minded, just go to college and take a class and you'll find that out quick. :blah:
have a nice day :2up:

[green91]

zach, im afraid youve driven yourself into the ground on this one. i personally dont believe in your heaven or hell; how could i possible go there? i suppose im borderline both athiest and agnostic. i believe that if there is a god (which i do not believe there is), and he is a loving, accepting being?? that he would make him(or her)self evident to me. ive seen no such evidence. instead, when looking at religion in general i see violence, unrest, and generally hypocritical behavior.. nothing that would suggest a being?? such as you profess. i was raised around christians my entire life and have been looked down upon because of my beliefs. thats close minded. im not afraid of eternity because i dont believe there is an eternity. my life will be over when i die.

[Kid Battle]

wow

[{X}Echo419]

zach, im afraid youve driven yourself into the ground on this one. i personally dont believe in your heaven or hell; how could i possible go there? i suppose im borderline both athiest and agnostic. i believe that if there is a god (which i do not believe there is), and he is a loving, accepting being?? that he would make him(or her)self evident to me. ive seen no such evidence. instead, when looking at religion in general i see violence, unrest, and generally hypocritical behavior.. nothing that would suggest a being?? such as you profess. i was raised around christians my entire life and have been looked down upon because of my beliefs. thats close minded. im not afraid of eternity because i dont believe there is an eternity. my life will be over when i die.

I wouldn't say an athiest is borderline.

[fight club]

he said he was a border line atheist/agnostic. as in inbetween.

[{X}Echo419]

he said he was a border line atheist/agnostic. as in inbetween.

how are inbetween those 2? that's like being inbetween being able to swin and not.

[fight club]

so swimming and not swimming are the same thing as u dont believe theres a god or that ur open to there being a god but u need proof? not really, its more like being able to tread water and saying u cant swim, or being able to tread water, thinking u can swim but need proof before u jump off the diving board.

[green91]

i dont believe in a god. but if it were proven to me i wouldnt be able to deny it. i suppose that makes me more agnostic than athiest.

[xxrealmsxx]

I'm sick of people on here labelling Christians as "Close-minded"

Why are we considered close-minded? Why are you not close-minded? What makes you more open than Christians?

It just pisses me off because the people that call us close-minded spend all of their time on here putting Christians down, and never actually look at their own lives and try to make some sense of it and think about what might actually happen once they die. Have any of you ever thought about a little something called "eternity"?

I ask all of you to look up some people such as Pastor Johnny Hunt of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, or Tony Nolan of FBCW and TNT Ministries, or Dr. Ergun Caner of Liberty University, or Josh McDowell, and David Nasser.

Look up one or two of them and see what they have to say and then come back and let me know what you think.

Until then, please quit with this close-minded crap, i'm sorry the path to Heaven is narrow and the path to destruction is wide...doesn't mean you have to call me close-minded because you think it is unfair that there is only one way to get into Heaven. God is just, and he wouldn't be a just God if he let just anyone in through any religion now would He?

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

Other religions are seen as less closed minded than christians because they do not spend so much time recruiting/converting people.

[{X}Echo419]

Other religions are seen as less closed minded than christians because they do not spend so much time recruiting/converting people.

wtf?!

[metalman]

Oh for goodness sake... this isn't the least bit true.

On the contrary, it is fact.
Only the exact numbers are not known.
PC "Revisionist" history books that change facts or ignore them have lead to many people being ignorant of the facts of the middle ages.

The roman church has long flourished on ignorance...and still does.

[Jaimecbr900]

Everyone is simply going back and forth on tangents now.

Some people confuse "Christians" with being "closed minded" rather than simply convinced. There is a difference when it comes to faith.

We've discussed this like 2 gazillion times. Go look up the word "FAITH" in the dictionary. By definition it is something that CAN NOT be tangibly proven all the time, hence it's called FAITH as in someone BELIEVES it rather than EATS it :rolleyes: .

So it is immesurably EASY for someone to rebutt a FAITH debate with the good ole tried and true, "PROVE it to me..... :rolleyes: " When it comes to FAITH, there is only PROOF to the person professing to have that faith. In other words, if I am satisfied for myself that there is a God, then THAT is all the "proof" that I need. Sort of like trying to explain to someone what "love" IS. It's a "feeling" that is DIFFERENT for everyone. No one answer is correct or incorrect, it just IS. Well, Faith is a lot like that.

My buddy Atif I KNOW believes something that is slightly different than what I believe. Does that make him or I any LESS a "believer"? No. My friend Ren believes yet something else. Does that make HER any LESS a believer because I don't totally agree with her? No. So, just because someone doesn't share the same viewpoint or belief doesn't make THEM any less or more a "believer" or a "Christian/Jew/Muslim" because someone else "doesn't get it". Get it?.....Probably not. :rolleyes:

People think that "Christians" are "closed minded" because we hold strong beliefs and stick to them. What about Muslims that share that trait? What about Jews? What about atheists? What about devil worshipers? Each in it's own right firmly believes SOMETHING, don't they? So should they be wishy washy about it or hold steadfast to that which they honestly and truly believe IS right? To me, it's pretty clear that if you had people sitting on the fence about ANY of their beliefs, as it pertains to religion, they truly aren't ANY religion for which the profess to be a part of then. Think about it. Religion is a very black and white thing if there ever was such a thing. So to be called "closed minded" is basically to be misunderstood IMO.

I can converse with anyone on just about any subject. Does that mean I'm going to agree with everyone, no. Does that mean that someone is going to be able to talk me into something that I truly don't believe in, no. Does that make me "closed minded", no. It makes me someone that has enough conviction to stick to what he believes regardless of what others may think about it.

[{X}Echo419]

On the contrary, it is fact.
Only the exact numbers are not known.
PC "Revisionist" history books that change facts or ignore them have lead to many people being ignorant of the facts of the middle ages.

The roman church has long flourished on ignorance...and still does.

Proof?

[metalman]

Proof?

You have access to good libraries and many hours and a desire to spend reading? This subject cant be covered in one sentence.
Much historical info is there for anyone who wishes to know. Catholic libraries are also great sources of info. ;) For an overview you can start with Foxes Book of Martyrs and once youve read that in its entirety I can give you a lengthy list of other books to read.
I know people are largely ignorant of history in general. I didnt realize the reformation/counter reformation era, and prior era leading up to it was an "unknown". Many schools in fact teach about this though I suspect most to be private schools as "PC" plagues our public school system.

[Tracy]

I'm sick of people on here labelling Christians as "Close-minded"

Why are we considered close-minded? Why are you not close-minded? What makes you more open than Christians?

It just pisses me off because the people that call us close-minded spend all of their time on here putting Christians down, and never actually look at their own lives and try to make some sense of it and think about what might actually happen once they die. Have any of you ever thought about a little something called "eternity"?

I ask all of you to look up some people such as Pastor Johnny Hunt of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, or Tony Nolan of FBCW and TNT Ministries, or Dr. Ergun Caner of Liberty University, or Josh McDowell, and David Nasser.

Look up one or two of them and see what they have to say and then come back and let me know what you think.

Until then, please quit with this close-minded crap, i'm sorry the path to Heaven is narrow and the path to destruction is wide...doesn't mean you have to call me close-minded because you think it is unfair that there is only one way to get into Heaven. God is just, and he wouldn't be a just God if he let just anyone in through any religion now would He?

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

open minded people respect other people's decisions......and opinions. If someone calls a christian close-minded, then that is their opinion. Open minded people understand that and don't get bent about other's opinions and beliefs. Think about that for a minute ;)

[Tracy]

Other religions are seen as less closed minded than christians because they do not spend so much time recruiting/converting people.
cept the jahova's

[tattoodlude]

I respect alot of peoples thoughts and decisions but I am not very open minded to anything. I have no problems with what anyone wants to belive or do until they try to push it on me or "sell" me on their beliefs. Everyone makes up their own minds and makes their own mistakes who cares if they are christian or not they are going to pay a price to someone or something, in every religion. I personally am a once a year christian you know go christmas eve sing some songs and go home feeling good for the next 365 days.

[b@d @pple]

its gonna be funny when...EVERYONE goes to hell and satan say ...allright christians come with me ,your goin to the deepest part of hell...oh why you ask? oh cause the jews were right!

[Dragonfly5338]

its gonna be funny when...EVERYONE goes to hell and satan say ...allright christians come with me ,your goin to the deepest part of hell...oh why you ask? oh cause the jews were right!

hahaha total mr. bean skit!!!!!

[ISAtlanta300]

Open minded people understand that and don't get bent about other's opinions and beliefs.

Close minded Non-believers !! :)

[Tracy]

Close minded Non-believers !! :)

I'm open minded! I believe that everyone sucks equally and they deserve that right :D

[ReCkLe5s]

PREACH IT ....wheres the pulpit...?

[ReCkLe5s]

i dont believe in a god. but if it were proven to me i wouldnt be able to deny it. i suppose that makes me more agnostic than athiest. you know if you actually try to find god.... you will thats the way it works you make that choice that because he gave to you.... look it up... its there....:cool: i was the same way... and he did...

[Hulud]

because i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.
wow now thats fuckin funny as shit

you know the truth why? because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...

you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?

and by the way you've been thinking so highly of yourself i know that i am a better person than you could ever be.

[{X}Echo419]

wow now thats fuckin funny as shit

you know the truth why? because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...

you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?

and by the way you've been thinking so highly of yourself i know that i am a better person than you could ever be.


you could say that about atheists too.

[Hulud]

you could say that about atheists too.
how? whose sayin we know the truth and you dont? just because i dont believe in your god doesnt mean im sayin i knwo the truth

and if your talking about thinking so highly of myself i dont, and i dont judge people like 1zach4 is

*edit* and im not sayin that about all christians just that zach kid

[{X}Echo419]

how? whose sayin we know the truth and you dont? just because i dont believe in your god doesnt mean im sayin i knwo the truth

and if your talking about thinking so highly of myself i dont, and i dont judge people like 1zach4 is

*edit* and im not sayin that about all christians just that zach kid

I wasn't accusing you of anything. it was just a generalization. why get so defensive...

[Hulud]

I wasn't accusing you of anything. it was just a generalization. why get so defensive...
im not getting defensive just asking questions
but how can u say that about athiests? i mean thats a generalization, as if i meant all christians

[Jaimecbr900]

I'm not anyone's "keeper" but I feel I should answer a couple of things.




you know the truth why?

It maybe because he believes it.




because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...

Name a single HISTORY book written while the HISTORY was still happening.... ;) Just because a book was written AFTER someone "died" doesn't change the FACT that someone lived, breathed, spoke, walked, preached, etc.....does it? If that's so, then how did you learn about Christopher Columbus? He was long gone by the time you first heard his name, right? So therefore, the HISTORY books that you learned his name and life from in school are they fake? Are they wrong? Were they always written by the SAME author???? Does ANY of that change the FACT that Christopher Columbus was Spanish, Discovered America, and lived???? NOPE.

So therefore the argument that since the Bible has many "authors" it's not valid or accurate doesn't make much sense, now does it? Since we all study HISTORY via data derived from all kinds of sources, places, and times in history itself. Many of the "authors" of books STILL in use today as totally accurate are long ago deceased. Does that make any of the info in the book all of a sudden false......NOPE.



you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?

Again, name a single book written by ANY devine being. Just one.

There isn't a single one. Why? Because all religious books were written by followers and not the leaders. It is up to the reader to believe or not. That is part of the equation. The info is given to you and out of your own free will you CHOOSE to believe or dismiss it. That is part of the cycle of life. If you feel comfy NOT believing, go for it. Just don't do it because you feel "humans" are the ones delivering the message......READ the MESSAGE, forget about the delivery....READ the MESSAGE yourself. If it makes sense to you, believe. If it doesn't, move on and find something that does.

[{X}Echo419]

^^^ well said

[Hulud]

I'm not anyone's "keeper" but I feel I should answer a couple of things.




It maybe because he believes it.


so he believes in something doesnt mean that it is




Name a single HISTORY book written while the HISTORY was still happening.... ;) Just because a book was written AFTER someone "died" doesn't change the FACT that someone lived, breathed, spoke, walked, preached, etc.....does it? If that's so, then how did you learn about Christopher Columbus? He was long gone by the time you first heard his name, right? So therefore, the HISTORY books that you learned his name and life from in school are they fake? Are they wrong? Were they always written by the SAME author???? Does ANY of that change the FACT that Christopher Columbus was Spanish, Discovered America, and lived???? NOPE.

but it does mean that things are going to be out of proportion, its like when you think back on things from the past they arent the same as what they truly are. they seem a certain way in your mind but are different in reality.


So therefore the argument that since the Bible has many "authors" it's not valid or accurate doesn't make much sense, now does it? Since we all study HISTORY via data derived from all kinds of sources, places, and times in history itself. Many of the "authors" of books STILL in use today as totally accurate are long ago deceased. Does that make any of the info in the book all of a sudden false......NOPE.

i never said it was all of a sudden false now did i?




Again, name a single book written by ANY devine being. Just one.

There isn't a single one. Why? Because all religious books were written by followers and not the leaders. It is up to the reader to believe or not. That is part of the equation. The info is given to you and out of your own free will you CHOOSE to believe or dismiss it. That is part of the cycle of life. If you feel comfy NOT believing, go for it. Just don't do it because you feel "humans" are the ones delivering the message......READ the MESSAGE, forget about the delivery....READ the MESSAGE yourself. If it makes sense to you, believe. If it doesn't, move on and find something that does.
did i say there was one? i dont choose to not believe because of humans, i choose not to believe because i think there is no god, plain and simple

[Jaimecbr900]

so he believes in something doesnt mean that it is

In his mind it is. Sometimes that's enough. For you it may or may not be, but for him it may very well be. In other words, that's HIS version of the truth. You can debate with him all you want but it just is.


but it does mean that things are going to be out of proportion, its like when you think back on things from the past they arent the same as what they truly are. they seem a certain way in your mind but are different in reality.


Sorry bud, but that's a lot of double talk. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that because something like the Bible was written way back when it somehow diminishes in value or content over time? Who's "reality" are we talking about here?

I'm sorry, but I didn't follow that at all.


i never said it was all of a sudden false now did i?

Well you didn't spell it out, but you certainly implied it IMO.



did i say there was one? i dont choose to not believe because of humans, i choose not to believe because i think there is no god, plain and simple

Your previous post you made it seem as if you were knocking back on Mr. Echo because he "believed" in something although it was "based on humans" as you put it. What did you mean then?

BTW, it's certainly your perrogative to not believe on whatever you feel like. It really is pretty simple if you wanna know the truth. If you lead a thirsty horse to water and he CHOOSES not to drink and die, that's on the horse not the handler. That's pretty much how religion IMO is. There are lots of "lakes" for you to drink from. If you CHOOSE to thirst to death, it's on you. Some of you guys (that don't believe in God period) I guess feel you can survive on your own w/o anything. That's fine, again your perrogative. There's really only ONE way to find out....YOU've placed your bet, as have I. ;)

[Hulud]

In his mind it is. Sometimes that's enough. For you it may or may not be, but for him it may very well be. In other words, that's HIS version of the truth. You can debate with him all you want but it just is.

your right thats HIS version of the truth but it could also not be the truth is all im saying, as well with me i could not be right, but theres no way to prove that right now.




Sorry bud, but that's a lot of double talk. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that because something like the Bible was written way back when it somehow diminishes in value or content over time? Who's "reality" are we talking about here?
I'm sorry, but I didn't follow that at all.

actually there is no double talk here you jsut missed what i meant. what im trying to say is that anything in the memory (thoughts from the past) become distorted in the mind. you know like when you think back on a slide when you were young and how big it was, and then you go see it now and it seems small? you see what i mean?



Well you didn't spell it out, but you certainly implied it IMO.
sorry you thought that but not what i meant





Your previous post you made it seem as if you were knocking back on Mr. Echo because he "believed" in something although it was "based on humans" as you put it. What did you mean then?

which post, my last one was towards you and the one before that was in no way "knocking back" on him. This was the last thing i said towards him "im not getting defensive just asking questions
but how can u say that about athiests? i mean thats a generalization, as if i meant all christians". please show me the quote your reffering to because i would never intentionally "knock" on someone for their beliefs.

[metalman]

BTW, it's certainly your perrogative to not believe on whatever you feel like. It really is pretty simple if you wanna know the truth. If you lead a thirsty horse to water and he CHOOSES not to drink and die, that's on the horse not the handler. That's pretty much how religion IMO is. There are lots of "lakes" for you to drink from. If you CHOOSE to thirst to death, it's on you. Some of you guys (that don't believe in God period) I guess feel you can survive on your own w/o anything. That's fine, again your perrogative. There's really only ONE way to find out....YOU've placed your bet, as have I. ;)

Pretty much sums it up. Like a famous song lyrics..."there are two paths you can go by...." and theres only two, we are all either on one or the other.

Another thing that should be troubling to some athiests is this...

Man # 1, he lives his entire life not only believing in God but living his beliefs, treating others as indicated in the Good Book. He lives a good long life, is loved by his family an piers because he is Christ-like and loving etc etc....he dies, and then "finds out" there is no God. Wheres the down side?? Fact is there is none. If he is right then having lived a "righteous" life seeking God, not only will he have gained the respect of his family and piers, he will be given eternal life.

Man # 2, he lives his entire life NOT believing in God , treating others as he feels, doing whatever he wishes, regardless of the Good Book, reasoning that is matters not....he dies, and then "finds out" he is wrong there IS a God and judgement. Uhhohhh. Unfortunately for him he is then condemned and loses out on everything and is cast into the lake of fire with the other doubters and scornful etc.

So as you say, it is kind of a "bets" type thing. If you gamble you'd be smart to keep the odds in your favor. The odds are that there is a God, a Creator, a judgement. But if one likes playing the long shot...its their choice, thing is they will most likely lose. ;)

[joesblk_teg]

I'll leave the thread with a quote from Tupac:

"We probably in Hell already, our dumb asses not knowin
Everybody kissin ass to go to heaven ain't goin"

im just entering this thread and you quote tupac
if thats the most scholarly source you have your credentials
on this topic are really oblique

[Jaimecbr900]

your right thats HIS version of the truth but it could also not be the truth is all im saying, as well with me i could not be right, but theres no way to prove that right now.

Right, but like I said earlier.....you've placed your bet on what YOU believe, so why can't he?




actually there is no double talk here you jsut missed what i meant. what im trying to say is that anything in the memory (thoughts from the past) become distorted in the mind. you know like when you think back on a slide when you were young and how big it was, and then you go see it now and it seems small? you see what i mean?

I understand what you're saying now.

It still doesn't change the fact that there was a "slide" regardless of how tall or short it is now, does it? That's like puffing a resume doesn't change the raw qualifications of someone, unless they bold face lie. Right or wrong? ;)