View Full Version : Is it still Obamacare?
Cause fuck, I sure can't tell how the current Bill reflects the proposed one. Honestly, I should've voted for Hillary no lie. Republicans make up the minority and still got what they wanted, the one thing I can say about Bush is that he did not falter on his ideals. No matter how much people disagreed he pushed stuff through.
Total_Blender
12-22-2009, 11:23 AM
Cause fuck, I sure can't tell how the current Bill reflects the proposed one. Honestly, I should've voted for Hillary no lie. Republicans make up the minority and still got what they wanted, the one thing I can say about Bush is that he did not falter on his ideals. No matter how much people disagreed he pushed stuff through.
One thing about the GOP is that if their senators don't follow the party line they are quickly stripped of their committee appointments, funding for their PAC's, etc.
The Democartic majority we have now is a pretty diverse group of agendas, and they are a little more tolerant of deviation from the party line. Also, they are trying to at least maintain the pretense of "bipartisanship" by courting the moderate Republicans and independents like Snowe, Liebermann, etc.
The thing Obama and the Dems should realize is that they will catch hell from the opposition no matter what they do. Once the political/civic discourse has broken down to the opposition bussing people from out of district to town halls just to shout at the congressmen and openly displaying weapons at presidential apperaences, the shit strom is about as bad as it is going to get.
They should have just ran with single payer since they were getting so much heat anyway. But half the party is supported by insurance money, so that would never happen.
Obama has pretty much given in to every demand of the right... he stopped the torture prosections at GITMO, he's stalled at bringing the detainees to the mainland, etc. He's drafted another surge for Afghanistan. He's done everything he can to prop up Wall Street greed. And still they're on him like white on rice.
I really think he should show a stiffer upper lip to his critics and start pushing harder for the things he campaigned on like single payer, an end to torture/GITMO, withdrawl from AFGN and Iraq, etc. But if these are his true colors that we have seen over the past year I can't say I'd vote for him in 2012.
Which is not to say I'd vote for Palin or whatever stooge the right decides to put up there. I'd vote for John Edwards or Dennis Kucinich, or Ralph Nader or Ted Kennedy's ghost.
But if these are his true colors that we have seen over the past year I can't say I'd vote for him in 2012.
Which is not to say I'd vote for Palin or whatever stooge the right decides to put up there. I'd vote for John Edwards or Dennis Kucinich, or Ralph Nader or Ted Kennedy's ghost.
Exactly my sentiment, I tend to feel like I have pie on my face for having supported the guy.. nonetheless its still many steps above what the Repubs were offering. I have to say honestly if Romney got the nomination (which he wont because of the good ole boy system in the GOP) I'm about 60/40 in his favor over Obama. There is no incentive to compromise if you're going to be criticized just as bad as if you did not compromise, push your agenda and damn what others think. With Clinton out of the running in the primary, Edwards and his scandal are eliminated, I don't know who else would have the balls to go against Obama. Personally I'd wish Gore would give it one more try but I know he wont and Kucinich isn't taken serious enough to be a viable candidate.
Total_Blender
12-22-2009, 12:50 PM
Exactly my sentiment, I tend to feel like I have pie on my face for having supported the guy.. nonetheless its still many steps above what the Repubs were offering. .
I really don't get why he would alienate his base completely... I guess 2010 is where we will really see what happens though, as the seats in congress are up. If we can increase our "majority" with more progressives we might see some results. I'll definitely be out in this one to vote against Isakson and Paul Broun, anyway.
PatrickH
12-22-2009, 01:03 PM
TB, where's the love for my man Ron Paul? :D
Total_Blender
12-22-2009, 01:16 PM
TB, where's the love for my man Ron Paul? :D
I can't vote for him for congress because he's not in my district. I will say that he does play a valuable role in Congress.
Really though, it comes down to 3 major things:
1.) I'm unapologetically pro-choice.
2.) I'm against the "Fair" tax as it places a disproportionate share of the tax burden on low income families and the poor.
3.) I support a lot of federal programs like the Pell Grant, the National Park Service, and the VA, which Ron Paul might consider these "un-necessary".
PatrickH
12-22-2009, 03:12 PM
LMAO@#2 Have you even read the legislation? Low income families would pay next to nothing with the Fair Tax. I'm pretty sure RP is pro-choice as well. He's pretty much Libertarian and they're pro-choice on everything.
Total_Blender
12-22-2009, 03:16 PM
I'm pretty sure RP is pro-choice as well.
He said something like he "couldn't be any more against abortion."
I'm not saying I don't think RP is bad, I support him on a lot of issues... just not enough to vote for him in a presidential election. Same with John McCain really. I really don't think a McCain presidency would be all that different from what we have now.
preferredduck
12-22-2009, 05:20 PM
He said something like he "couldn't be any more against abortion."
I'm not saying I don't think RP is bad, I support him on a lot of issues... just not enough to vote for him in a presidential election. Same with John McCain really. I really don't think a McCain presidency would be all that different from what we have now.
your right because they work for the same people and we get sucked into their dumb popularity contest. If RP were president he would wind up like JFK.
BanginJimmy
12-22-2009, 06:44 PM
In case you havent noticed, Obama said this bill was exactly what he wanted, even though he said before his presidential run that he wanted a single payer system.
The "Party of No" seems to be working well for the GOP though. They are hammering Nelson and others for selling their vote. They are actually voting WITH what the general american population wants, purely by coincidence though.
If polls hold out, GOP will have control of the House come 2010, and stand a very good shot at taking back the Senate also. Now they just need to drag this bill on for another couple months until campaign season starts. At that point, anyone up for re-election will be getting as far away from this bill as possible. What scares me though is that once they are lame ducks, they may force this bill through anyways because they have nothing to lose.
At that point, anyone up for re-election will be getting as far away from this bill as possible. What scares me though is that once they are lame ducks, they may force this bill through anyways because they have nothing to lose.
The bill is useless now, I think it leaves us worse off than before.
preferredduck
12-23-2009, 01:20 AM
The bill is useless now, I think it leaves us worse off than before.
it's insurance reform and insurance companies screw people over so the insurance companies win and we get screwed. this is what it has been about the whole time, they had to put on a show for the camera's.
it's insurance reform and insurance companies screw people over so the insurance companies win and we get screwed. this is what it has been about the whole time, they had to put on a show for the camera's.
Thing is, Obama criticized McCain about mandates, took Hillary to task on it then turns around and makes health insurance mandatory for all. Smoke and mirrors..
BanginJimmy
12-23-2009, 09:04 AM
The bill is useless now, I think it leaves us worse off than before.
Everything the dems are pushing would leave us worse off than me are now. Anyone that sticks with private insurance will be paying far more and getting lesse coverage because of all of the added taxes and mandates. Anyone on a public plan will be stuck with shitty care because docs will be forced to push as many people as possible through to make up for the low payments.
The only thing the dems aren't pushing is reforms for the things that actually push prices up. There is no mention of tort reform. Nothing to address the fact that docs ae forced to aise prices on private insurance and individuals to cover losses from medicare patients. Nothing to address portability issues.
The only thing any dem plan has done is transfer the costs to others, not lower them for anyone.
Vteckidd
12-23-2009, 09:09 AM
Al gore lololololol he's even more of a spineless liar
Peter schiff wins against dodd in 2010 I hope he runs I'm 2016 or 2020
palin won't run if she's smart
BanginJimmy
12-23-2009, 11:29 AM
Al gore lololololol he's even more of a spineless liar
Think about this for a second. I would love for Gore to run against the dem party in 2012 o as the canidate in 2016. This is the same guy that couldn't beat Bush in 2k even though he was coming off his time as VP in a very popular presidency. How do you think he will do when he is aligned with an exceedingly unpopular presidency?
I have a feeling dems will be in the same situation in 2012 as GOP was going into 2008. Voter want the other party, no matter who it is.
Democrats arent the problem, neither are Repubs.. its the system that creates this mess. Doesn't matter who you put in office the results will be the same, corporatists will profit and the people will suffer.
BanginJimmy
12-23-2009, 03:15 PM
Democrats arent the problem, neither are Repubs.. its the system that creates this mess. Doesn't matter who you put in office the results will be the same, corporatists will profit and the people will suffer.
I agree and disagree at the same time. The party system creates much of the mess we are in right now. The system forces this competition and prevents anyone from working together. Its the actual people that are the real problem. Look at the people that are supposed to be representing us. Look at the poll numbers from December 9.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Poll_Only_38_percent_support_health_care_bill.html
A whopping 38% approval, yet that hasnt slowed Reid down from buying every vote he needs.
This is the type of power play tactics that are ruining this country. The massive numbers of earmarks on top of massive budget increases this year alone will take decades to pay back.
Total_Blender
12-23-2009, 04:45 PM
This is the same guy that couldn't beat Bush in 2k even though he was coming off his time as VP in a very popular presidency. .
He did beat Bush in 2k. :ninja:
Whether he won in the electoral college is debatable, but he did win the popular vote. Regardless of the Florida recounts, Bush stole the election with the help of the Supreme court. The supreme court was not supposed to settle the election.
BanginJimmy
12-23-2009, 04:48 PM
He did beat Bush in 2k. :ninja:
Whether he won in the electoral college is debatable, but he did win the popular vote. Regardless of the Florida recounts, Bush stole the election with the help of the Supreme court. The supreme court was not supposed to settle the election.
Yea but Obama isnt even an American so he isnt really President either :screwy:
preferredduck
12-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Democrats arent the problem, neither are Repubs.. its the system that creates this mess. Doesn't matter who you put in office the results will be the same, corporatists will profit and the people will suffer.
:goodjob: amen to that, the sooner people see this the better. notice how many insurance companies had large stock increases over the last few months. follow the money neo!!
preferredduck
12-26-2009, 08:02 PM
He did beat Bush in 2k. :ninja:
Whether he won in the electoral college is debatable, but he did win the popular vote. Regardless of the Florida recounts, Bush stole the election with the help of the Supreme court. The supreme court was not supposed to settle the election.
don't forget about the story about the man named Jeb, he rigged the vote so the outcome is said!!!
Jimmy, both parties work for the same smuck on wallstreet, check the history of obama's advisors on the mess and see what other messes thay have been in and the close ties they have to large corporations. paulson was in a video where the white house authorized him to do some really shady business practices involving bear sterns and goldmans sachs. he was a bigwig at goldmans and was "groomed" their so it was a big conflict of interest. also geitner was a goldmans sachs member also
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