99 SI project.

[zracin]

For me, Honda is a whole new world. I came from an IS300 and a 350z; now this is my new toy. I realize there is no way other than NOS or FI to get 300 hp out of a b16. I dont care how reliable the car is, as this is just a toy. What is the easiest way to get 300 out of a b16 (again, it doesnt have to be daily driver) Which route would you go? Obviously I would start with internals. Superchargers seem to be significantly more expensive for a civic than a turbo kit and turbos more than nitrous. Either way Id have to build tha block up. I chose 300hp bc id like to have a power/weight under 9lb/whp for once, and also for once, weight is on my side. my real question is: What am i looking at price wise? 3k,6k,10k? and can the b16 tranny hold up with minor upgrades? Maybe I should just swap something non-honda into it, maybe save some cash that way? would a 302 swap be blasphemous?

[SleeperWRX]

LOL @ the 302. Build the b16 block/head, semi build it. Boost. You're looking at 3k max with a tune to make 300.

[jdm>usdm]

9:1 CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, GSR Cams, Victorx IM, t3/t4 60 trim .63 a/r EL Exhaust Manifold, 3'' DP/Exhaust, Omni Power Springs/Retainers, Tial 38mm.

Tuning at 17psi on 93 octane

382whp 268wtq


bootlegcivic's setup from honda-tech.




300whp is pretty damn easy to obtain.lol

[jerseyef9]

b16 trannys are weak man gsr or itr tranny in opionion man
and you want 300whp with internals man you get about 400whp with nitrous man like two stage nitrous with all the work man you lookin at 3k with a fine tune
oh yeah make sure you run your car off Hondata s300 good luck with your build man

[josh green]

^^ Dont listen to this guy, the b16 tranny is fine. Put forged pistons and rods in the motor and put a decent turbo kit on there (not ebay junk), get it tuned and 300whp will be made easily. You dont need valve springs/ retainers, intake manifolds, and all this other fancy shit. I would stay away from nitrous also.

[dallasb84]

if i were you id go a whole nother route.....


id buy a ls bottom end..... build it with pistons and rods..... gsr or ls whatever you prefer. id say about a grand for this when your said and done.

swap on you si head and youd have a mean turbo build.

id go with an ebay kit..... but you need to piece it together....

cast mai.
t3/4
ebay intercooler an dpiping kit..

you get the point....

boost it to 15lbs or more...


youd be well over 300hp reliably.

i did it.... just not to 300 yet 230 at the wheels on 10psi

[zracin]

wow, you guys seem really optimistic! and for around 3k? thats nuts. I spent over that on just internals on the Z. I shouldve gone honda a long time ago. 300 in the civic would shit on most anything out there! I think Im gonna like this. thanks all, any other advice greatly appreciated

[josh green]

For a street car and true street tires the b16 would be optimal engine. Honestly a B16 with forged pistons/rods, and a gt28R would probably be an extremely fun street car. The turbo comes in fast and the lack of torque will net you a little more traction. I have seen a similar setup in a 4 door GSR and it was a blast, the b16 should be fine.

You can find tons of good used parts on Honda-tech.com and this site, I would try to stay away from ebay unless its a reputable individual and/ or new product from a dealer.

[SleeperWRX]

wow, you guys seem really optimistic! and for around 3k? thats nuts. I spent over that on just internals on the Z. I shouldve gone honda a long time ago. 300 in the civic would shit on most anything out there! I think Im gonna like this. thanks all, any other advice greatly appreciated


You'll need like a grand for internals (quality, to be safe). 1500 for a decent turbo kit (no ebay shit). And like 400 on tuning (depends on who)

[jerseyef9]

the tranny is no goin like the boost man just either get ls or gsr if money is right get most def get itr tranny man

[SleeperWRX]

the tranny is no goin like the boost man just either get ls or gsr if money is right get most def get itr tranny man


Why wouldn't it like boost? It will, just short gears. Just put a LS 5th gear in it.

[jerseyef9]

true your right man i agree with you but wouldn't want boost to kick in man b16 are short man but its my opinon man either way good luck im no expert

[zracin]

Cool, thanks alot guys. I think Ive got all i need to know. Im just learning my way around hondas. This seems like it could be easy

[anothaRRR]

true your right man i agree with you but wouldn't want boost to kick in man b16 are short man but its my opinon man either way good luck im no expert

So whats the difference between a b16 gearing and ITR gearing?

[zracin]

Would the cylinders need to be sleeved, or is 300hp within the threshold of oem bore?

[SleeperWRX]

Would the cylinders need to be sleeved, or is 300hp within the threshold of oem bore?


The cylinders can hold it, but to be safe, sleeve them. JJspec is on their stock block in their 450whp D series...

[SPOOLIN]

Short tranny not liking boost and vice versa? Maybe on the streets but they are the best thing if you got the tires to handle it. I know im going with shorter gears:)

factory sleeves will hold 300 fine, but from the day of the tune it will inevitably be a time bomb.

[Formally...]

If you are going to keep it at 300-350whp then this is all you need.

Forged rods and pistons (leave head and intake manifold alone)
Headstuds
Good turbo kit (not ebay, large GT28 or T3/hifi 60)
Good clutch
LSD for tranny (B16 gears are just as strong as all other bseries, diffs are weak though)
Good tune.

Sleeves will be fine if motor is built right and good tune.

[zracin]

SHOPPING LIST- I think this might be a bit over 3k...If i buy new anyways
84mm sleeves
84mm CP 9:1 pistons
eagle rods
headstuds
exedy stage 2clutch
gsr or sk2 turbo2 cams
edelbrock intake mani
turbo kit (t3/4-gt28)
exhaust/headers
valve spring upgrade
Hondata
maybe some gearing
LSD?
tuning

[Formally...]

I would do a little higher compression then 9:1. More like 10:1 or so. Also, go with JE pistons over CP.

[SPOOLIN]

Also, go with JE pistons over CP.

I concur.

[-S Double C-]

true your right man i agree with you but wouldn't want boost to kick in man b16 are short man but its my opinon man either way good luck im no expert

i could trap 147 on my slicks with a b16 trans in 4th get that shit outta here! B16 FTW!

[-S Double C-]

I would do a little higher compression then 9:1. More like 10:1 or so. Also, go with JE pistons over CP.

id go with arias over the je's

[zracin]

Ill start the stockpile process. Mainstream, Ill keep in touch

[jerseyef9]

i could trap 147 on my slicks with a b16 trans in 4th get that shit outta here! B16 FTW!


calm your ass down buddy i was giving my two cent alright STFU
the guy ask for advice so i gave my two cents:2up:

[-S Double C-]

calm your ass down buddy i was giving my two cent alright STFU
the guy ask for advice so i gave my two cents:2up:

:blah: lol i was joking with you! But since you wanna act like a pansy motherfucker who the fuck are you to give advice about something you have no clue about evidently? "B16 trans are weak" LOL!!! I know people running 9's on b16 trans. A b16 trans is great for boost unless you running some small ass wheels/tires on a stock boosted b16 with 8lbs which is evidently not what this guy is trying to do! :goodjob:

[DamnDisLaOsBoY]

b16 has no torque but to be honest, Forged 10:1 pistons, eagle rods, arp head studs, will put you in the 350 range pretty easily. No need for a built head even. I think thats the cheapest way. I seen GSR's have piston n rod set up without vavletrain push over 400whp and i think gsr valve are weak!

[-S Double C-]

b16 has no torque but to be honest, Forged 10:1 pistons, eagle rods, arp head studs, will put you in the 350 range pretty easily. No need for a built head even. I think thats the cheapest way. I seen GSR's have piston n rod set up without vavletrain push over 400whp and i think gsr valve are weak!

valves or valve springs are weak? cause ive seen many make 600whp on stock valves/springs

[southside]

valves or valve springs are weak? cause ive seen many make 600whp on stock valves/springsMight as well upgrade them though so he can increase reliability.:DOem might work but a few missed gears and the motor is:idb: and I know people will say dont miss a gear then even the best do it.;)

[-S Double C-]

Might as well upgrade them though so he can increase reliability.:DOem might work but a few missed gears and the motor is:idb: and I know people will say dont miss a gear then even the best do it.;)

amen to that, its very unlikely i do but it does happen from time to time

[DamnDisLaOsBoY]

Might as well upgrade them though so he can increase reliability.:DOem might work but a few missed gears and the motor is:idb: and I know people will say dont miss a gear then even the best do it.;)

yeh thats the only reason i say its weak. I seen GSR's bend valves way easier than any other motor from missing gears. I should have put that. Didnt mean it wouldnt hold the power.

[zracin]

Where is the best/cheapest place to get parts from your experience?

[josh green]

yeh thats the only reason i say its weak. I seen GSR's bend valves way easier than any other motor from missing gears. I should have put that. Didnt mean it wouldnt hold the power.

Any valve is going to bend when it comes in contact with a piston.......


zracin, dont be scared of getting used parts. I know tons of people who started out buying used pistons in good shape and getting new rings. Its a good way to save some money.

[-S Double C-]

Where is the best/cheapest place to get parts from your experience?

hondamarketplace.com FTW!!!!! Over half my build is from there and used parts.

[SPOOLIN]

id go with arias over the je's

lol i concur again.

[dallasb84]

je's are noisey..... and require big tolerances.....ftl.... had me freaked out for the first 500 miles or so on my motor.. now im like ...... whatever.



but..... b16 are pretty much the better of the honda motors from an engineering standpoint...... if the 1.8 motors were built like the b18 they would be way more efficient...


the b16. in proportion to bore, stroke and deck is the "squarest" of the b series....

[froyotlbw88]

I would do a little higher compression then 9:1. More like 10:1 or so. Also, go with JE pistons over CP.

I don't understand...if he's trying to boost he should go with a lower compression...the lower the better

[Formally...]

I don't understand...if he's trying to boost he should go with a lower compression...the lower the better

Not always. Higher compression with lower boost will make the same power and be more responsive.

[froyotlbw88]

Not always. Higher compression with lower boost will make the same power and be more responsive.

That's in the event that he doesn't want to run high psi levels. But when he wants to run his Garrett turbo to 16 psi or higher, he's not gonna want higher compression pistons.

[josh green]

^^This guy knows whats up!:goodjob: :D

[dallasb84]

unless your running c16 ftw

[Formally...]

^^This guy knows whats up!:goodjob: :D

Thanks Josh. O by the way doesn't your GSR make like 400whp on 11psi of boost. Is that because it is 10:1 compression? Didn't you make like 460whp on 15psi and pump gas no problem? Most of the time a 9:1 motor takes about 18-20psi to make same power. That means more lag time. Also means when you are not in boost (85% time your driving) you have a pretty responsive motor.

So yes if you want to run crazy high boost then that is a different story, BUT if you read the first post he said 300whp. But then again Miller's 8sec honda is over 12:1 and 50psi.

[josh green]

double post

[josh green]

Thanks Josh. O by the way doesn't your GSR make like 400whp on 11psi of boost. Is that because it is 10:1 compression? Didn't you make like 460whp on 15psi and pump gas no problem? Most of the time a 9:1 motor takes about 18-20psi to make same power. That means more lag time. Also means when you are not in boost (85% time your driving) you have a pretty responsive motor.

So yes if you want to run crazy high boost then that is a different story, BUT if you read the first post he said 300whp. But then again Miller's 8sec honda is over 12:1 and 50psi.
I dont even know what a turbo is, dont it go on the fan belt? You know these people knowz eeeerrrrthing!

[SPOOLIN]

Thanks Josh. O by the way doesn't your GSR make like 400whp on 11psi of boost. Is that because it is 10:1 compression? Didn't you make like 460whp on 15psi and pump gas no problem? Most of the time a 9:1 motor takes about 18-20psi to make same power. That means more lag time. Also means when you are not in boost (85% time your driving) you have a pretty responsive motor.

So yes if you want to run crazy high boost then that is a different story, BUT if you read the first post he said 300whp. But then again Miller's 8sec honda is over 12:1 and 50psi.


Its in his Head more than the compression. Just FYI. :)

Lots of headwork

[TheChosenOne]

That's in the event that he doesn't want to run high psi levels. But when he wants to run his Garrett turbo to 16 psi or higher, he's not gonna want higher compression pistons.
It's really up to the tuner, and what he wants out of the car. I could have sworn he said he just wanted 300 whp in the OP. 10:1 should be just fine for that without any detonation issues. ITR's and GSR's run higher compressions with that, and 16 psi is a cakewalk. The slightly higher compression will give him a much better throttle response out of boost, and make him more power at lower psi.

[Formally...]

It's really up to the tuner, and what he wants out of the car. I could have sworn he said he just wanted 300 whp in the OP. 10:1 should be just fine for that without any detonation issues. ITR's and GSR's run higher compressions with that, and 16 psi is a cakewalk. The slightly higher compression will give him a much better throttle response out of boost, and make him more power at lower psi.


Thank you. I just like the little higher comp. For example Ben's (ATLTSX) GSR hatch made 286whp at 6psi on basic T3/T4 with stock head. That is over 20whp per lb of boost over stock motor. Most turbo setups are 10-14whp per lb.

And Matt, I know I know.;)

[SPOOLIN]

im doing 10.5 or 11.0 next time.

[jody754]

i run 40:1

[josh green]

^^^ we drop his pistons in and wait for the dry ice to melt.... SAY SOM'N!

Idk that I would go beyond 10:1 on an OTS piston, I'd do a little research to make sure they were strong enough. As well as quality of fuel, most of those guys are running that Q16 $$$!