Famous RWD VS FWD Debate...

[Elbow]

So let us all have a debate.

Many say FWD is stupid blah blah blah. Why? Have you driven a really well setup FWD car? Obviously a stock Civic handles like shit and isn't fun to drive.

Ive driven RWD cars that handle worst then a stock FWD Civic. A stock S13 handles like donky shit.

My only concern with a FWD car is that I can't get the tail end out when it's wet for a quick burst of adrenaline. I like knowing that option is there lol.

Other then that, I don't care what drive it is.

[Vteckidd]

both have their positives and negatives and depends on what kind of racing you are talking about.

Usually RWD is far superior in Drag Racing
I think in real road racing it doesnt really matter although you dont see many FWD cars at petit lol I think most are RWD or AWD.

I think its generally accepted that FWD in any type of track racing isnt the most desirable. You should use them to steer, not steer and propel the car down the track.

[jhadleyh]

fwd and rwd stuff and poop on sour cream

[Elbow]

both have their positives and negatives and depends on what kind of racing you are talking about.

Usually RWD is far superior in Drag Racing
I think in real road racing it doesnt really matter although you dont see many FWD cars at petit lol I think most are RWD or AWD.

I think its generally accepted that FWD in any type of track racing isnt the most desirable. You should use them to steer, not steer and propel the car down the track.

Yeah I believe FWD is the worst for drag racing.

Road racing FWD can do just fine compared to RWD to an extent I think. I doubt there could be a FWD car with the same power levels as a GT ALMS car and have it handle just as good as a RWD car. All ALMS cars are RWD by the way.

[Vteckidd]

Yeah I believe FWD is the worst for drag racing.

Road racing FWD can do just fine compared to RWD to an extent I think. I doubt there could be a FWD car with the same power levels as a GT ALMS car and have it handle just as good as a RWD car. All ALMS cars are RWD by the way.

yeah my knowledge lacks on the road racing cars. You are right what FWD cars are out there that can even think about competing with Vettes or Vipers or Benz?

[Me86Rob]

I prefer RWD. the front tires shouldnt do all the work. but this is, in all reality, a matter of opion.

[87 Turbo II]

Ferrari, BWM, Lamborghini, Lotus (well most), Porsche, Bently, and pretty much anything else good don't do FWD for a reason. F1 cars aren't FWD. GT3 cars aren't FWD, etc. Physics sucks on a FWD car, you accelerate, and take the weight off of the driving tires. You ask more of the front tires , overheat them and loose grip quicker. You make the car more likely to be front heavy. You make transmission work harder. FWD blows, I don't care if one CAN be as fast, the physics are still against you why would you want to start with that handicap?

EDIT: I forgot about torque steer.

Also FWD was developed to be cheap, it ISN'T performance oriented. Technically neither is RWD, it was just first, but it's not some space saving cost reducing gimmick FWD is.

[TypeRPersonality]

I don't think you'll change anyone's preference on this.

As for me, I prefer manual fun-to-drive cars. I would take my Prelude over a 240sx any day.

[03RCode]

I like FWD... when I'm in reverse.



Wrong wheel drive FTMFL.

[Elbow]

Ferrari, BWM, Lamborghini, Lotus (well most), Porsche, Bently, and pretty much anything else good don't do FWD for a reason. F1 cars aren't FWD. GT3 cars aren't FWD, etc. Physics sucks on a FWD car, you accelerate, and take the weight off of the driving tires. You ask more of the front tires , overheat them and loose grip quicker. You make the car more likely to be front heavy. You make transmission work harder. FWD blows, I don't care if one CAN be as fast, the physics are still against you why would you want to start with that handicap?

EDIT: I forgot about torque steer.

Also FWD was developed to be cheap, it ISN'T performance oriented. Technically neither is RWD, it was just first, but it's not some space saving cost reducing gimmick FWD is.

Well yeah why would they build a FWD? It's not BETTER. However, CRX, SE-R, etc. are all performance oriented FWD cars that handle very well. Touring car racing has tons of FWD cars, it's not like it takes tons of money to build a great handling FWD car, same amount it'd take to build a RWD.

Have you driven a real FWD car?

[sr240]

There's a reason why true sport cars are RWD. But it's a matter of preference. AWD? hehe.

[dorin48]

Fast in and slow out, or slow in and fast out (dont remember where I heard that) Assuming all variables are equal (weight, power, braking, driving, etc.) FWD would suffer due to the front performing double duty. Weight bias during braking and acceleration bla bla bla... Fundamentally there is a disadvantage to FWD but that depends largely on the vehicle its being compared to. I think there is a place for fwd in racing, helps bring in variety and competition. I dont remember what series it is (i dont follow racing) but i.e. Realtime Racing runs the TSX, and some other group used to run the protege and moved on to the mazda6.

[bdydrpdmazda]

I prefer my AWD but I would always take a RDW over a FWD. My Spec V was FWD and it didnt handle bad but their is just something about feeling the rear end try to slip out when you are accelerating out of a corner that adds a fun element to driving.

[EJ25RUN]

Many times it was seen as an advantage to have fwd in racing as you could build a very compact package.

This was proven with FIA Super Touring II rules and FIA Rally F2 Kit Cars.

Here is one of the 2 1999 WRC tarmac rallys where fwd beat 4wd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUuGFDdJh8

[Vteckidd]

again it all comes down to preference and type of "race"

FWD i like to think was invented to just be more economic and compact. Honda had a long racing history way before they ever released their FWD civic in 1973. Actually the first honda ever built was a 9500rpm redline S500 which was.............ding ding ding RWD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S500

Honda entered F1 in 1964 IIRC and thats kinda how they got started. it wasnt till many years later the Civic landed over here and it was made as an economy car , not a sports car.

I think as the first Civic aka CVCC gained steam it just led into other cars that were similar to it. The CRX and EF Civic werent "sports" cars they were commuter cars. Same with accord, integra, etc.

The only real "Sports" cars Honda has had are RWD being the NSX and the S2000. I think that kinda ends that debate lol

[SampaGuy]

Well yeah why would they build a FWD? It's not BETTER. However, CRX, SE-R, etc. are all performance oriented FWD cars that handle very well. Touring car racing has tons of FWD cars, it's not like it takes tons of money to build a great handling FWD car, same amount it'd take to build a RWD.

Have you driven a real FWD car?



FWD road race cars are always in classes where they have about ~300hp max. Much more than that in a FWD car and it will not be balanced. A RWD road race car can have 800hp and still be balanced.

[RL...]

I am into the "whole package" by that I mean looks, performance, luxury, and how they all come together seamlessly to form an automobile. There is simply no fwd car that excites me in all three of those catagories...not stock anyway

[Meatball546]

Well yeah why would they build a FWD?

Of course companies like that wouldn't build FWD cars because they are all performance-oriented companies. They know that FWD can not be as good as RWD in performance situations. For example: Take a "car" that is 2 wheel drive, makes 250 horsepower, has a perfect 50/50 weight distribution, and can pull .90g in lateral acceleration. From a purely grip based standpoint, it would not matter which set of wheels were being driven. However, when the dynamics of driving come into play, this changes everything. Under acceleration, FWD has much less traction than RWD. When cornering, RWD gives the driver more control and more options when cornering goes awry. FWD is arguably easier to drive fast by the average car enthusiast, but in a racing situation with the "car" driven by an individual able to push the "car" as quickly as it can possibly lap a circuit, the faster lap time would be achieved with the RWD "car".


It's not BETTER. However, CRX, SE-R, etc. are all performance oriented FWD cars that handle very well. Touring car racing has tons of FWD cars, it's not like it takes tons of money to build a great handling FWD car, same amount it'd take to build a RWD.

Have you driven a real FWD car?

What do YOU think? The SE-R you mentioned, if you (theoretically) maintain the original weight distribution, suspension geometry, and cost, would you prefer to have it FWD or RWD?

The answer for me is easy. I'd take RWD any day over FWD.

[tnomud]

After decades of SCCA racing with FWD, AWD, and RWD, I have come to the conclusion that a good driver can be fast in anything. Personally, I prefer RWD for just about everything.

[Brian*]

Me, I like FWD's over Helen mountain because they handle like go-carts
But I like RWD's over Helen mountain because they are fun to slide!!!!!!

[jhadleyh]

Simon wishes his e30 was fwd

[JITB]

In Racing, i think fwd cars have their limits by means of power being put thru the front wheels. but im a fan of both, Rwd or Fwd.. i cant say too much that hasnt already been said. But fwd have their place, and limits. Rwd about limitless with its power and handling, on a race course.

[Thighs]

fwd is just as good until you hit the 450-500hp wall, then you just cant set it up right. the dynamics of driving each are completely different. its easier to go fast in FWD, but i think a very skilled driver could go a LITTLE faster in a rwd, if hp, weight, and all the other variable were to remain constant.

[jhadleyh]

Your avatar is gonna make me have an epileptic seizure.

[eraser4g63]

I think both have there places, a stock ITR of MS Protege will out handle most stock RWD cars. I think it mostly depends on driving styles. I personally prefer RWD though.

[speedminded]

I will always recognize Oscar Jackson Sr. as the father of the FWD sport compact scene. Whether he can be accredited for that I don't know, but read their story and you'll see why. What they don't mention is they became famous when Car & Driver was testing a brand new Mustang on the streets of California and a modified Civic showed up destroying it. Then Jackson Racing was formed...

http://www.ojengineering.com/our_story.htm


I prefer RWD all day long. One of the first FWD cars I truly found appealing was a Acura TL at the '04 or '05 13-hour endurance race at VIR. One of the top factory sponsored teams was campaigning it when it was first released to the US. It couldn't run nearly as fast as our Del Sols but it looked good, sounded good, and had 4 doors. If the 3rd gen TL was RWD I would own one, no questions asked.

Real-Time has successfully road raced Integra's, RSX's, and TSX's against RWD's cars. Tri-Point Engineering has successfully road raced Mazda's 6's and now running Mazda 3's running head to head with the 3-series BMW's....with a dozen World Challenge victories and they won the Manufacturer Championship in '07. All in a FWD.

There's been several successful FWD rally cars, from the Saab 99 Turbo to the Peugeot 306 Maxi. Stig Blomqvist won the 1979 swedish rally in a Saab 99 Turbo Rally. Not only was it FWD but it was the first turbo car to win a world rally...just think of all the cars that led to.

As a passenger in a rally car you won't even know it's not RWD, the same goes for grip racing. A properly balanced FWD will trail-brake and step out in a turn just like a RWD. Some of those that have seen my Integra in the mountains know that. Especially that time I went up with Azenis on the front and street tires on the rear. Never again lololol!

FWD's do have their limits, anything over 220-260whp is going to be useless for road racing, depending on the car. BUT if you count how many sub-300hp race events there are then it doesn't matter. They will always be competitive against RWD's.

[Fast Shadow]

Christian Rado's solution for FWD handling

http://www.bespokeventures.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/worldblog-1024x569.jpg

[nreggie454]

I owned a sick H22 Civic that pulled 1.07 lateral Gs in autocross trim. It was extremely fun and had a big ole sway bar in the rear so it could oversteer when I wanted it to. I loved that car for many many many reasons.

However, it wasn't nearly as fun as a RWD or AWD car. For example, my dad's 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 is worlds slower, but is a flippin BLAST to drive.

[DieselNuts]

I can't get the tail end out when it's wet for a quick burst of adrenaline.

If it has to be wet, you're driving the wrong kind of car. Torque is your friend...

[Elbow]

If it has to be wet, you're driving the wrong kind of car. Torque is your friend...

I have a 325E all I have is torque, it doesn't HAVE to be wet, but my tires don't cry when it's wet.

[Elbow]

Christian Rado's solution for FWD handling

http://www.bespokeventures.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/worldblog-1024x569.jpg

Yeah no.

Not a solution for FWD handling, more like just a solution for more downforce.


I owned a sick H22 Civic that pulled 1.07 lateral Gs in autocross trim. It was extremely fun and had a big ole sway bar in the rear so it could oversteer when I wanted it to. I loved that car for many many many reasons.

However, it wasn't nearly as fun as a RWD or AWD car. For example, my dad's 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 is worlds slower, but is a flippin BLAST to drive.

X2 on 914's being fun, I miss mine, even though the engine was a POS.

[dorin48]

I learned first hand on Saturday at TGPR that fwd in the rain is better lol. I passed a modded mustang gt in my stock jetta on shitty tires. I noticed that a civic si in another run group was making passes on other cars as well that he wasn't in the dry.

[On_Her_Face]

Usually RWD is far superior in Drag Racing

I was going to say how I hate FWD drag racing. I can not stand it and I don't see it as safe (I'm talking about the fastest ones, whatever their equivalent to NHRA prostock or Rails/Funny cars if they have nitro methane cars).

However road racing no problem against them except like Simon said you can't get the ass out. I would rather have the adrenaline rush of spinning out instead of under steering into a wall.


I learned first hand on Saturday at TGPR that fwd in the rain is better lol. I passed a modded mustang gt in my stock jetta on shitty tires. I noticed that a civic si in another run group was making passes on other cars as well that he wasn't in the dry.

Not to burst your bubble but the GT's have a live axle and blow at handling, more or less good overtake.. ha

[speedminded]

I learned first hand on Saturday at TGPR that fwd in the rain is better lol. I passed a modded mustang gt in my stock jetta on shitty tires. I noticed that a civic si in another run group was making passes on other cars as well that he wasn't in the dry.Then neither has any power. Other than to pull a car up a hill on a slick surface, ie ice or snow I can't think of a single case where a FWD is better for traction or driving in inclement weather...

[speedminded]

However road racing no problem against them except like Simon said you can't get the ass out. I would rather have the adrenaline rush of spinning out instead of under steering into a wall.lol fail. Cobalts and SRT4's understeer, but there's plenty of other FWD's with proper stock suspension that don't. Honda's can oversteer with stock sway bars in the rear...

[On_Her_Face]

Then neither has any power. Other than to pull a car up a hill on a slick surface, ie ice or snow I can't think of a single case where a FWD is better for traction or driving in inclement weather...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Oldsmobile_Toronado_0003.jpg/800px-Oldsmobile_Toronado_0003.jpg

Actually my dad said these were great for driving up hill in the snow but that is about it haha.

[G.C]

The real question is, can you use it to your full potential?

[bu villain]

I was always under the impression that RWD is always preferable in a sports car. I didn't think that this was debateable but I guess I was wrong.

I see lots of people saying that in some scenarios FWD can be as good as RWD but are there any scenarios in which FWD is better?

[On_Her_Face]

I was always under the impression that RWD is always preferable in a sports car. I didn't think that this was debateable but I guess I was wrong.

I see lots of people saying that in some scenarios FWD can be as good as RWD but are there any scenarios in which FWD is better?

They are better at loosing traction.

[EJ25RUN]

However road racing no problem against them except like Simon said you can't get the ass out. I would rather have the adrenaline rush of spinning out instead of under steering into a wall.


Tell that to Mr. Oversteer Jason Plato and Ivan Muller. Any car front or rear drive will over steer when you toss the weight around or even under hard breaking.

[Elbow]

I was going to say how I hate FWD drag racing. I can not stand it and I don't see it as safe (I'm talking about the fastest ones, whatever their equivalent to NHRA prostock or Rails/Funny cars if they have nitro methane cars).

However road racing no problem against them except like Simon said you can't get the ass out. I would rather have the adrenaline rush of spinning out instead of under steering into a wall.



Not to burst your bubble but the GT's have a live axle and blow at handling, more or less good overtake.. ha

You can definitely have an oversteering FWD, my old CRX oversteered like hell compared to my Miata. Go to an SCCA race some of the FWD cars usually pull off the best slides through turns lol.

[speedminded]

Tell that to Mr. Oversteer Jason Plato and Ivan Muller. Any car front or rear drive will over steer when you toss the weight around or even under hard breaking.Hit the nail on the head with Jason Plato.

FWD 4 wheel drifto action:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4919374350202509646#



You can definitely have an oversteering FWD, my old CRX oversteered like hell compared to my Miata. Go to an SCCA race some of the FWD cars usually pull off the best slides through turns lol.It's is all about momentum, shifting weight, and braking.

[On_Her_Face]

You can definitely have an oversteering FWD, my old CRX oversteered like hell compared to my Miata. Go to an SCCA race some of the FWD cars usually pull off the best slides through turns lol.

In stock form, sorry should have clarified.

[1SICKLEX]

RWD or I do not care. When they build FWD Ferraris, Lambos let me know.......

I've had FWD, it is for efficiency and to save costs. Yes you can make a FWD fun etc but give me the PROPER RWD setup please.

Hell just for the look, staggered wheels on RWD looks superb. This new trend of Staggered on FWD is so lame its pathetic.

When Porsche with their racing history goes FWD, let me know....

http://www.classicrallies.com/img/products/prod_231_1_big.jpg

[NewGen33]

I don't ever remember a successful FWD supercar so that's enough for me to know its lesser when compared to RWD. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will let me know.