Question for non believers of christianity

[geoff]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

[geoff]

i will ofcourse respond to all questions and comments with scriptural proof, scientific proof, and general common sense. God bless you all and i appreciate and other believers out there that want to just chime in and give some help. lets get out there and start doing what Jesus our Lord told us to do and go preach the gospel to every creature

[quickdodge®]

Lolol.


im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

First off, who are you to question other people and their stances/beliefs?

Why do YOU stick so hard to YOUR belief that there is a God? Just because you THINK you're right, doesn't make it so? How do you know the "Fundamental views" that you believe in are the ones that everyone should believe in? Who are you to say that what you believe in is what everyone should believe in that it is the correct form?


i will ofcourse respond to all questions and comments with scriptural proof, scientific proof, and general common sense.

Lolol. Scriptural proof? I can take an old book and twist it's meaning around to make it seem real. Scientific proof? Of God? The only way to make everyone a believer is to provide TANGIBLE proof of His existence. That will never happen in our lifetime. Common sense? The only common sense that exists within religion are the morals that it teaches. The Ten Commandments are a great set of values to live by (and I do). But to talk about the stories in the Bible and use them as common sense to prove God exists? Lolol.

I believe in God, but have lots of questions about things. People believing something doesn't make it true. R. Kelly believed he could fly. But that didn't make it true as he has never done so.

Here's one big problem that people that "spread the Gospel" don't seem to get.....no one likes a nag. Leave people be. If they want to learn about the Bibile, Jesus, God or whatever/whomever, then they will come to you or their local church. No one likes bible-thumpers. If they wanted to bothered by people like that, they'd come to you. Later, QD.

[BABY J]

LOL. Wow.

[SPOOLIN]

yeah i cant stand parking lot cruisers and shit that try to spread their beliefs annoyingly, i would never try to go around forcing people to hear what i believe. I dont care about the "if i had a pail of water and someone was one fire would you not put it out" idea.

Everyone ive ever seen try to do that shit has just had bottles thrown at them.

I just respect what others believe so i dont ask, and i don't tell. If im eating with someone and they want to pray to Buddha before eating, do it, praise Buddha lol whatever.

[BABY J]

^^^^ AMEN SIR!!!! VERY annoying. It's like walking through the mall and passing the mobile phone kiosks and they say "Hey!! What kinda phone you got??? I can save you some money."

Really? LOOK. I know where you are located - you're right in the middle of the fucking aisle... if I REALLY wanted to discuss phones I WILL COME TO YOU!!!!! Until then, leave me the fuck alone.

It's kool that some of you need to believe in the invisible in order to get strength, direction, motivation etc. But there are some people such as Baby J that can self-motivate and that has arrived to a point where THIS LIFE THAT I CAN SEE AND TOUCH AND TASTE AND FEEL is enuff for me... I don't need to ask the invisible for more than that. :)

I'll leave you with this... it's JUST THIS SIMPLE --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmAzyt5ziMQ

Thank you for playing.

[SPOOLIN]

LOL, IM ALIVE!

[BABY J]

LOL, IM ALIVE!

I don't understand why the fact that we are alive isn't good enough for some people. Why it isn't good enuff for some people to just have the CHANCE to live (even if just for 80 or so years) blows my mind - LOL. Ungrateful fucks just HAVE to have more --- "Hey I know... let's just pretend that there is more --- hey, let's say streets of Gold --- yeah, that sounds good!" LOL

If there was a God... I think he'd have better shit than "Gold" on the streets. Gold is what WE value here on Earth b/c of it's "rare" nature... it's hard to acquire - and it's pretty damn shiney when we process it. :D Only a MAN holds it to such high regard - the birds don't, the trees could give a FUCK about it --- fish shit on gold and keep on swimming. Streets of Gold is a MAN'S idea - if I was a God capable of creating all that we can see and know about the world the streets would be made of much kooler shit than that. LOL. I'm God but "gold" is all I have to offer, yet I can feed 5000 w/ 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread? LOL. Awesome.

You people are missing the whole ship... but anyway, you've got to carve a path for your own life --- if streets of gold does it for ya have fun. But even on a slick I don't think you'd get a good hook on gold... gonna be lots of roll-racing in heaven. LOL

[oneSLOWex]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

Because it is what THEY believe....same as the reason you believe whatever it is you believe in.


Are you that guy that walks around downtown at big events telling people they are going to burn in hell for doing things you think are wrong?

[SPOOLIN]

But even on a slick I don't think you'd get a good hook on gold... gonna be lots of roll-racing in heaven. LOL


LOL!! thats awesome, all i want when i die is the answers to everything that is impossible for us to know right now. :)

How was it all created, is there life elsewhere, how big is the universe, are there other universes, are there other dimensions, is this shit like men in black where we are a damn marble played with by an animal in a larger scale LOL

[Total_Blender]

I think the problem with Christianity and the Christian world view is that they see their God as objective structure, the source of meaning, and complete truth.

But really, there is no objective meaning or truth. Try to think of a single word that can be defined without the need for other words. You can't. Try to explain colors to someone who is blind, you can't. for you colors exist and are tangible... for the blind person they don't. Structure and order depends on structures that precede it and follow it. "Genesis" (both capital G and lowercase g) does not happen from nothing. Even the chaos or nihilism that existed before Genesis had a structure, even if it was inverse to what actually happened in the Christian Genesis. The works of philosopher Jaques Derrida go into great detail on post-structuralism and deconstruction.

As far as truth goes, there is no "truth" either, only the power of discourse. Back to our metaphor on describing the concept of "color" to a blind person... even first-person experience in the senses is not objective and universal truth.

Look at what we know about science and what we have accepted as "truth" in the past... the Earth centered universe, the Earth being flat, Galenic medicine (the humors)... all that stuff has been discredited now. If the LHC doesn't vaporize us first, it may turn everything we currently accept as "truth" about the universe on it's head. The meaning of "truth" changes in reflection to the norms that exist during any time period. What becomes knowledge does not become knowledge based on any objective "truth," rather it becomes knowledge via those who have the power to establish "truth" through discourse (doctors, scientists, etc etc). Recommended reading here is Michel Foucault's Dicipline and Punish and The Archaeology of Knowledge.

Really, the main function and purpose of religion is to establish and enforce a system of social norms. But where religion gets it wrong is to say that there is an absolute structure and an absolute and objective truth. The nature of "reality" as we experience it is change, transcendence, the variables that exist between sign and signified.

There is no structure but what we create for ourselves.

[trini_gsr]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

the same reason you stick so hard to your belief in Jesus. think about why you believe so strongly in christianity...and try to remember that there are others who feel the same way about whatever they believe in, for probably the same reasons.

when i was in college i had a roommate who is probably the best example I've met of how a Christian should live. he was real cool, always humble, never pushy about his faith...but ppl were just naturally curious about him because of how he behaved and found out about his beliefs once they got to know him. And from that he started up a Bible study in the dorm.

He taught me that if you *really* live your life by the Bible, others will take notice and you'll have your opportunity to preach to ppl who are genuinely interested and might really benefit. ppl are naturally drawn to folks whose lives are guided by real purpose. Jesus said this himself...

there's no need to beat ppl over the head with your beliefs. you just need to work on being the best example of living the Christian life that you can be...and the rest will fall into place. but this can be said about any religion.

[bodhi]

I'm sitting on my chair, I have my feet up, my right knee is close to my chest -- and I'm farting.
I don't know what gave me so much gas today, but it's just coming out.


Oh yeah, I almost forgot about this....



scientific proof, and general common sense. God bless
Only thing I have to say to this is: How do you suggest we go about attempting to discover our purpose in life? Does everything have the same purpose?
Is the purpose an endpoint? Is the purpose heat death?
Does any random group of 12 hydrogen atoms in our sun have the same value in terms of this purpose as my frontal lobe or my colon? Can you give me reasons for what you think the answers are? Do you have anything to provide, other than bitchery?

[EJ25RUN]

I believe in God but not organized religion.

I do believe people that force religion onto others are brainwashed scum and need to focus on their one damn lives.

[bu villain]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

Rationality has served me very well throughout my life, so I need evidence to believe in things. I simply haven't seen enough evidence to believe in God. If I discovered some new evidence it could potentially change my belief. Keep in mind, atheists don't see the belief in God as a choice, you either believe or you don't just as I can't choose to believe that this keyboard I am typing on doesn't exist.

[s14unimog]

I love how the OP is absent for all of this. Organized religion is a joke

[geoff]

sorry it took me so long to reply back. some people are stilled blessed to have jobs and cant spend all day on the computer. first off, why do i insist on getting my beliefs across to other people, if you believed what i did and knew the outcome for those that are on the fence or dont believe in anything then you would try and do your best to help. you wouldnt stand idly by while a man put a gun to his head and shot himself would you?

second, i have still yet to hear any serious points, all i have heard is basically summed up in this, " i dont want to hear it cuz i dont like it, i live a good life and thats enough."

so lets try this again, i would like to have a serious discussion about this.

[BABY J]

There is some serious ammo in this thread... you just chose to overlook it... you can start w/ post #3. LOL

[quickdodge®]

why do i insist on getting my beliefs across to other people, if you believed what i did and knew the outcome for those that are on the fence or dont believe in anything then you would try and do your best to help. you wouldnt stand idly by while a man put a gun to his head and shot himself would you?

So you think that a man has to be a believer in God to do the right thing? How do you know what kind of life any of us has led? How do you know that none of us has ever done a deed greater than expected? Do you think you're the only one that can do Samaritan-like deeds because of your beliefs?

You speak awfully high and mighty of yourself in this thread. Do you realize how you show your true "Christian" colors by that?


second, i have still yet to hear any serious points, all i have heard is basically summed up in this, " i dont want to hear it cuz i dont like it, i live a good life and thats enough."

Not from me you didn't..... \/ \/ \/


you can start w/ post #3. LOL

Later, QD.

[Franco Tirador]

" i dont want to hear it cuz i dont like it, i live a good life and thats enough."

x2

what iiiifff there really was a heaven and hell? where would you guys go when you die?

what is the best selling book of all time?

[EJdm]

GO QD!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

[ATL_EG]

personally i see religion as way of mass population control, but to actually answer your question, i've never seen any proof of any god. Im not one to believe something just because im told to, if one of your "gods" shows himself to me, then yeah i'll bite, until then i'll put my faith in myself.

[EJdm]

i always wanted to know this...so please explain it to me...i went to church and had faith until of course something happen and i lost that faith...well anyways in the bible it says that you cant be gay because its a sin but it also says that god created everyone...so god made a mistake by making those gay people and punish them??? because scientifically people that are gay were born with more of progestin/estrogen...and of course they're a hand full of them that just want to be gay...

[Pulp_Fiction]

Honestly what it seemed like in the OP is that he is trying to hint at why the hardcore athiests are so hellbent on telling everyone their beliefs about nothing. "God doesn't exist, why can you believe in that shit? There is no empyrical evidence ...." those kinds of people. And I honestly don't understand why you want to spread a message of nothingness but, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Now I am a christian, BUT, I am a terrible example of what one should be so I don't preach about it or wear crosses. I drink alot, swear alot, and do dumb shit so I don't like to flaunt it cause I am certainly not setting an example. The only time I will tell someone about my religion is if they ask. The reason I do this, I don't want someone forcing their beliefs on me so I pay everyone else the courtesy. Those people on the street corners preaching Jesus annoy me as well, I appreciate why they are there, but it pisses me off and if they were gonna stand somewhere stand in front of a church or something, not a fucking rock concert. All they are doing is giving religion a bad name and they are doing so much more harm than good for their cause. Most christians aren't like this.

@EJdm: I still debate this with my hardcore christian friend (who sleeps around alot .. go figure). I personally don't think the bible condemns homosexuality. Here is my reasoning, god made them. I have also noticed that most people who think homosexuals go to hell also believe that it is a choice. No, it is not a choice. You don't just wake up and say "well, today I like women because it is more socially acceptable", you are born with an attraction to one sex or the other thats it. If you want me to elaborate further I can but for now I am exhausted, school is killing me!

[japan4racing]

personally i see religion as way of mass population control, but to actually answer your question, i've never seen any proof of any god. Im not one to believe something just because im told to, if one of your "gods" shows himself to me, then yeah i'll bite, until then i'll put my faith in myself.

hit the nail on the head

[quickdodge®]

Honestly what it seemed like in the OP is that he is trying to hint at why the hardcore athiests are so hellbent on telling everyone their beliefs about nothing.

The same can be said about the hardcore "Chrisitans." Why are they so hellbent on telling everyone they need to live by the rules of GOd or the Bible?


And I honestly don't understand why you want to spread a message of nothingness but, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Again, the same thing can be said here. Why do you want to spread a message of nothingness?

It's a two-way street on that topic so why question what others do or believe in? Later, QD.

[SPOOLIN]

you wouldnt stand idly by while a man put a gun to his head and shot himself would you?

I sure as hell wouldn't let his crazy ass shoot me!

[s14unimog]

A Question for "Pulp Fiction" So its acceptable to be half Christian? You reap all of the benefits after death yet don't have to follow the book word for word? The inconsistencies and self interpretation of religion is the only reason Christians can argue their position. Then my favorite part, when cornered, you guys drop the "faith" boom. Sorta a cop out in my opinion...

I'll pose a few question for discussion....

1. Why is it that you pray to a symbol of death? The crucifix is one of the most barbaric, inhuman, ways to torture someone.
2. Why do you choose to associate yourself with an organization that has been responsible for millions of deaths over thousands of years. Your faith persecutes non-believers, that's not very christian of you.
3. How did Jona survive inside a whale?
4. How could god create two people to populate the earth and not encourage incest?
5. Are Dinosaurs real?

Just b/c religion has been around for as long as it has, doesn't make it right. Its okay, people were naive, scared, looking for hope in a time of uncertainty. Its human nature to develop reasons for what happens in front of you. I can assure you, a lightening bolt striking down is NOT an act of god; but at one time it would have been considered this. Grow up, the fairy tails are a joke, open your eyes, think for yourself!

[Pulp_Fiction]

The same can be said about the hardcore "Chrisitans." Why are they so hellbent on telling everyone they need to live by the rules of GOd or the Bible?



Again, the same thing can be said here. Why do you want to spread a message of nothingness?

It's a two-way street on that topic so why question what others do or believe in? Later, QD.

Did you read the rest of my post? Answered. I don't want anyone spreading anything unless asked. I used to live in Utah and was constantly harassed by mormons .... I know what it feels like. But people are passionate about religion so I guess people can be passionate about nothingness. Being a christian you stand behind your beliefs but I don't know why you want to stand behind nothing but I suppose some people could.

@s14unimog: 1/2 Christian? As opposed to a whole one? All that matters in the end is that you are saved and believe in God. You don't get on heaven based on works. Whether you go to church every sunday or not at all it makes no difference. Everyone worships and honors god in their own way. And making statements like the ones you made are all operating under the assumption that someone is capable of being a 100% pure christian. We are all humans and all flawed, religion is about purity in an unpure world and we do the best we can but we are all flawed and no one is capable of being 100% christian, thats kinda the whole point of religion there. Now I am non-demoninational so I just say christian, but this is totally different from a catholic perspective. Don't get me started on them, I'm sure I despise those catholic activists as much as anyone on here. Catholicism consists of way to many man made rituals, so please don't base your opinion of the christian religions on them.

It is also hard to argue faith. Thats what religion is, you put your faith in something beyond yourself. I can't prove to you that I am right but you can't prove I am wrong (religion in a nutshell). It is a lot easier to cut down religious responses to your tongue-in-cheek questions when you already know you are going to disapprove of the answers. If you have serious questions please ask them but keep an open mind, all the religious people on here are doing our best to explain this but you have to understand how difficult it is to argue faith and how simple it is to cut it down with science.

[s14unimog]

All that matters in the end is that you are saved and believe in God.

According to your religion this is not a true statement. there are no scriptures that suggest you don't have to be 100% Christian, and you know that.



If you have serious questions please ask them but keep an open mind, all the religious people on here are doing our best to explain this but you have to understand how difficult it is to argue faith and how simple it is to cut it down with science.

The questions I have listed above are very serious one. Each apply to believers in a serious manner. I would like a serious response. Why is it so difficult to explain, your religion is supposed to provide all of the answers for you. Its simple to cut you down with science b/c I have FACTUAL EVIDENCE!

I appreciate your response and the tone in which you responded to it but the fact remains that countless events of so called "acts of god" have been disproved and scientifically explained. And I do agree with you that I can't fully disprove you but you can't expect me to believe in creationism, or that Jona survived in a whale, when science can disprove that. Aside from debates about faith, and its contradictions towards science my biggest problem with religion comes back to the death and destruction it has caused. Its a malicious organization built to control a populous. Don't believe me, look in your history books.

[bu villain]

People in modern society usually agree that we should base our conclusions on reason and empirical evidence. The very idea of "faith" is about believing something without evidence or even in the face of contradictory evidence. If someone says they have faith that unicorns exist, most Christians would have no problem saying that person was a little slow or even stupid but yet if they hold a "faith" belief in certain other things (say that a certain book is the word of God) they are exaulted.

We atheists also don't know why some Christians try to equate not believing in something as "faith". They claim atheism is a religion but do they consider not believing in unicorns a religion also?

[quickdodge®]

I don't want anyone spreading anything unless asked.[

Like I said, that's a two-way street. You know there are more people trying to spread "the Word" than there are that try to spread atheism. You get preyed upon in your own neighborhood. You get preyed upon when you go to the grocery store. I don't go to people's houses at 9am on a Saturday morning and try to teach them about whatever.


I know what it feels like. But people are passionate about religion so I guess people can be passionate about nothingness. Being a christian you stand behind your beliefs but I don't know why you want to stand behind nothing but I suppose some people could.

You stand behind a faith. Faith is not a "something." It is not a tangible item. So in essence, we both stand for nothingness.


It is also hard to argue faith. Thats what religion is, you put your faith in something beyond yourself. I can't prove to you that I am right but you can't prove I am wrong (religion in a nutshell).

I agree. Faith is like an opinion. You can't argue it. There is no clear cut right or wrong answer.

For the record, I do believe in God (pretty sure I stated this earlier in the thread). I just have questions that no one on Earth can answer. I don't like to be preyed upon by "Christians." I don't like "Christian" people. That's ust me. Later, QD.

[ueyedgr8tness]

to add to the op thread i am going to say this.


to not believe VS to believe in a higher power such as (GOD)



why i believe in God... why not? I would rather believe that i have a better place to go when i die other than no where.I mean i can't really understand how people don't get it u don't want to believe in nothing thats fine live the rest of your life thinking when u die thats it:( so what if i believe in god i would like to think that if i was wrong and god does not exist then whoopi doo i loss nothing. BUT!!!! lets say i die and next thing i no here is another world that i have read about in the bible and all this is true.then it was worth every minute i spent learning. as for the people with no beliefs sad sad day...

u ask explain in a milder way..

Ok lets say u was going to cancun for vacation u hit that plane and u have no doubt!! in your mind in 5hr's u will be in cancun and the vacation will be so relaxing.But there is some things the pilot is going to have u do before u leave other wise u want leave,Now that is faith because you believe that u will be there in 5hr's. with faiths comes trust. U trust that the pilot is going to get you there alive.So u put your stuff up and grab the seat belt like your suppose to do.But u haven't even left the airport yet so why do u believe so much that u gonna make it??

Because u would rather believe,trust and have faith in the pilot that he is going to get you there.Now isnt that better than thinking u going to die on the way there? other wise u would have never jumped on that plane.

thats how i feel about God id rather trust his word and do what he would have me do so that i can make it to the other side..


As for the people that say's oh! well u can't see god.I say go grab the good book and read there some great info about that in there and if you could understand it like u understand tiger woods cheating when u read it then u should be fine.I personally don't go out and try to drive ppl to religion because most religion now day's is so corrupt i don't blame them for staying away.

[quickdodge®]

As for the people that say's oh! well u can't see god.I say go grab the good book and read there some great info about that in there

You make some decent points. But not in the line I quoted. There is nothing in the "good book" that is going to provide concrete, physical evidence of God. It's just not there. I hope I end up in heaven if there is one. I live my life according to my morals (which do happen to be the basic 10 Commandments) and hope that the good life I lead will be sufficient to get me to a better place. Later, QD.

[geoff]

to QD: i dont believe i once tried to present myself as mighty or anything like that. im a sinner who struggles every day to try and better myself. you my friend say that you live your life pretty much upholding the 10 commandments. your almost there ( salvation ), but there is no salvation unless you have a personal relationship with Jesus. your "righteousness" is as filthy rags to God, your good deeds are not even close to what God did for you. sorry my bro but the bible says you are either hot or cold, if your luke warm He will spit you out of
His mouth. you cant ride the fence and say if there is a heaven i hope to go there, cuz there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun.

homosexuality is a sin. the bible says its an abomination to God, and unnatural. you are not born gay im sorry. you might have more feminine like hormones but that does not mean you have to be gay. the bible says its a spirit of lust that overtakes you


1. Why is it that you pray to a symbol of death? The crucifix is one of the most barbaric, inhuman, ways to torture someone.
2. Why do you choose to associate yourself with an organization that has been responsible for millions of deaths over thousands of years. Your faith persecutes non-believers, that's not very christian of you.
3. How did Jona survive inside a whale?
4. How could god create two people to populate the earth and not encourage incest?
5. Are Dinosaurs real?

1. i dont pray to any symbol or saint or any graven image or idol. i pray to Jesus. even in the christian faith there are those who are misled and being decieved as to what God is about.
2. like i said before some have a false view on this religion and take advantage of it to further their own selfish ambitions. in the old testament God commanded the jews to kill off those who worshipped false gods and turned their backs from Him. the wages of sin has always been death, the difference now is that we wont have to suffer our punishment until judgement day cuz Jesus died to give us a chance.
3.not sure how jona survived, if you believe God created everything from nothing then its easy to think He could sustain jona in the whale.
4.dont take that the wrong way
5.yes, the bible talks about them

[quickdodge®]

to QD: i dont believe i once tried to present myself as mighty or anything like that. im a sinner who struggles every day to try and better myself. you my friend say that you live your life pretty much upholding the 10 commandments. your almost there ( salvation ), but there is no salvation unless you have a personal relationship with Jesus. your "righteousness" is as filthy rags to God, your good deeds are not even close to what God did for you. sorry my bro but the bible says you are either hot or cold, if your luke warm He will spit you out of
His mouth. you cant ride the fence and say if there is a heaven i hope to go there, cuz there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun.

Well you can go back to your pastor and tell him you have failed for you have not converted me. If my lifestyle doesn't get me to the Pearly Gates, then so be it. You're not going to say anything to change me. Especially with the lies about proof. Your opening post really cast you as one who puts himself above others that aren't of his faith. A typical "Christian" person.


homosexuality is a sin. the bible says its an abomination to God, and unnatural. you are not born gay im sorry. you might have more feminine like hormones but that does not mean you have to be gay. the bible says its a spirit of lust that overtakes you

What does this have to do with anything? Later, QD.

[geoff]

i put myself above non-believers by saying i have proof? not sure how so but ok thats your opinion. take a look around you buddy, you think that all came from some bacteria that appeared out of nowhere for no reason? HA thats a laugh. those of you that need " scientific evidence" here is one, Thom's law, nothing can not produce something. henceforth because nothing does not have the ability to produce something. and the law of causality, you cant have and effect without a cause and vise versa. all this came from something that was obviously above our tiny minds and is above all of our known laws of physics.

[BABY J]

i put myself above non-believers by saying i have proof? not sure how so but ok thats your opinion. take a look around you buddy, you think that all came from some bacteria that appeared out of nowhere for no reason? HA thats a laugh. those of you that need " scientific evidence" here is one, Thom's law, nothing can not produce something. henceforth because nothing does not have the ability to produce something. and the law of causality, you cant have and effect without a cause and vise versa. all this came from something that was obviously above our tiny minds and is above all of our known laws of physics.

So who created God? Take your time... I'll wait.

[quickdodge®]

i put myself above non-believers by saying i have proof? not sure how so but ok thats your opinion.

You pulled that from thin air, didn't you? OH NO!! Thom's law was wrong. You start off your thread attacking others saying why are they so hardheaded about not believing in what you believe. You don't think that's an attempt at throwing your weight (belief) around?


take a look around you buddy, you think that all came from some bacteria that appeared out of nowhere for no reason? HA thats a laugh. those of you that need " scientific evidence" here is one, Thom's law, nothing can not produce something. henceforth because nothing does not have the ability to produce something.

I look around me everyday, "buddy." I see everything that is here. You know when you buy that souvenir from the shop on the beach in Daytona and it says "MADE IN CHINA" on the bottom? I cut a tree down in my yard a couple of months ago and looked at the stump and the bottom of the tree. Kind of goes against what you say, but I didn't see anywhere it saying "MADE BY GOD." Damn, that's weird. SHIT!! I just put the word damn right behind God. Fuck me. Quote me, please quote me, where I said where I thought we all came from. I'll give you everything I have if you can do so legitimately. I get the "nothing can not produce something." You know what, though? How do you know, FOR A FACT, that it all came from God? Belief is not fact so don't tell me that. You have no proof God did all of this. You just believe he did.


all this came from something that was obviously above our tiny minds and is above all of our known laws of physics.

This is the only TRUE AND FACTUAL thing you've said. Right here. Later, QD.

[geoff]

baby j. to believe in the God im talking about, He is above our laws cuz He created them, thus He is not bound by them.

Qd: funny one about the made in china and tree thing. i wonder if you cut yourself open or look anywhere on your body if it says made by _insert parents names_. didnt think so. my original post was not to insult non-believers but to try and grasp as to what their reasoning behind not believing is. i think the biggest problem non-believers have falls in one of two categories or both. 1. they cant deal with the idea that they dont truly control their own lives. 2. they dont like to think that there are consequences for their actions. which one are you? you know what i dont have facts to prove God and you dont have facts to disprove Him. BUT, science points more towards the God of the Bible than to some random game of chance where everything came from nothing. all of this around here came from something that was not bound by our laws of physics. that means this thing had to be self aware and self conscience and created EVERYTHING for some purpose...no? or was it that nothing got bored one day and said let me roll the dice and see what happens? you may not agree to the God of the Bible and those reasons are your own to keep, but from your own mouth you agreed with me that all this came from something. to take a gamble that the God of the Bible is not Him and bet your eternity on something your not too sure about is not safe

[geoff]

by the way, since when can nothing produce something? to QD. and the comment about homosexuals was for someone who posted about it above

[quickdodge®]

Qd: funny one about the made in china and tree thing. i wonder if you cut yourself open or look anywhere on your body if it says made by _insert parents names_. didnt think so.

You're comparing factual information, though. It doesn't have to say my parents because they were there. My Mom was there when I was born and my Father laid claim to my being his son. So you're comparison just turned into the average Hollywood marriage....null and void.


my original post was not to insult non-believers but to try and grasp as to what their reasoning behind not believing is.

Maybe you should worded it in a less demeaning way instead of they way you put it.


i think the biggest problem non-believers have falls in one of two categories or both. 1. they cant deal with the idea that they dont truly control their own lives. 2. they dont like to think that there are consequences for their actions.

See this is you and what you THINK the biggest "problem" (which is another demeaning shot at people who don't believe) is with people without your faith. You keep relying on assumptions and you're trying to push them on others. You're doing everything you can to be condescending to people who aren't in agreement with your beliefs. Saying we have problems. Saying we can't grasp ideas that you believe in. You don't even see it, either. Well ,you are living up to the "Christian" way of thinking, that's for sure.


you know what i dont have facts to prove God and you dont have facts to disprove Him.

I bet it's harder to prove His existence than to prove His non-existence. You can prove to me that I have a phone in my pocket because you may be able to see it or we can go in my pocket and get it. You can't prove Heaven or God that same way. We can't go see heaven. We can't call God up or go see Him anywhere.


you may not agree to the God of the Bible and those reasons are your own to keep, but from your own mouth you agreed with me that all this came from something. to take a gamble that the God of the Bible is not Him and bet your eternity on something your not too sure about is not safe

What do you do, just take the parts that make you feel more powerful and superior to me and go with that and just overlook other things I've said? I will say this one more time and I'm going to post this in ALL CAPS so you'll see it:

I BELIEVE IN GOD AND HEAVEN. I JUST QUESTION A LOT OF STUFF!!!!

I won't post it again. And yes, I agree, as I'm sure most the world would agree, that we all came from something.

BUT NO ONE KNOWS WHERE!!

Later, QD.

[geoff]

im sorry if i offended anyone with my original post. and im sorry if i have offended you in any way. my statements about why some people dont believe is based upon discussions that i have had with unbelievers an what i observed about them. they may not apply to you. you say you believe in God and Heaven yet your replies and posts go more towards the opposite view. you have also said that you dont know for sure that there is a heaven but you would like to go if there was. you also stated just now, " I BELIEVE IN GOD AND HEAVEN. I JUST QUESTION A LOT OF STUFF!!!!" so that tells me your not really sure what you believe then. maybe its safe to say this, you believe that there is a possibility that there is a God and heaven. the evidence or lack there of is non sufficient for you to make a decision and truly believe either side of the story. correct?

[geoff]

i have my belief not from what someone taught or told me. i am new to christianity. i have had my own personal experiences with God that i can not deny. they were miracles and signs and wonders. God has spoken to me through the bible several times. He has answered all my prayers, HE built up my faith not some man. i can say God exists cuz i honestly sought after Truth and found Him at the end of the road.

[geoff]

im tired and going to bed. gotta wake up early for work. will continue this tom. here is some food for thought tho. some claim that I KNOW GOD ISNT REAL!!!! to those i say in response, do you know or believe that you will wake up tommorow? do you know or believe that you will be here next week, month, year? ( got this from another site. pretty good tho.) sometimes believing is all we have. for in life, there is actually very little that we do know. good night, God bless, and i pray for you all daily...may God Himself build up your faith.

[quickdodge®]

so that tells me your not really sure what you believe then. maybe its safe to say this, you believe that there is a possibility that there is a God and heaven. the evidence or lack there of is non sufficient for you to make a decision and truly believe either side of the story. correct?

In a way you are correct. What I don't like is people who say that they're beliefs are factual. Are actual. Are true. Unless there is concrete evidence, it's all belief. And there's nothing wrong at all with it. I am on the fence about it all. I'm some sort of skeptic believer. I do believe in God and Heaven and think that when we die, if we're right, we'll go upstairs. But I always have "what if" thoughts.


i have my belief not from what someone taught or told me. i am new to christianity. i have had my own personal experiences with God that i can not deny. they were miracles and signs and wonders. God has spoken to me through the bible several times. He has answered all my prayers, HE built up my faith not some man. i can say God exists cuz i honestly sought after Truth and found Him at the end of the road.

But you can say He is truth to you and only you. It doesn't make it so in the real world. You just believe He is real.

Back in 1997, I became homeless. Literally. I lived on Buford Hwy, Spring St, Peachtree St, Piedmont Ave and a host of other streets and alleys. I was this way for two years. I finally picked myself up, gathered myself together, made peace with my family and got a decent job and worked myself back into society. Now I have a paid for big ass house, 3 paid for cars and a nicely paying job, great wife and children. I could say that I found Him and He made all of this happen for me. But I can't say that. Never once did I pray for help. I never once looked up and said to please help me get out of this mess and straighten my life up.

I did all that myself because I knew that was what i had to do. I thank myself (and my family) for where I am right now. Later, QD.

[BABY J]

Back in 1997, I became homeless. Literally. I lived on Buford Hwy, Spring St, Peachtree St, Piedmont Ave and a host of other streets and alleys. I was this way for two years. I finally picked myself up, gathered myself together, made peace with my family and got a decent job and worked myself back into society. Now I have a paid for big ass house, 3 paid for cars and a nicely paying job, great wife and children. I could say that I found Him and He made all of this happen for me. But I can't say that. Never once did I pray for help. I never once looked up and said to please help me get out of this mess and straighten my life up.

I did all that myself because I knew that was what i had to do. I thank myself (and my family) for where I am right now. Later, QD.

THIS is what's up!!! :goodjob:

If there IS a God, he's got better shit to do than direct your every path form homelessness back to where you are now. If He exists - he put us here and left the rest up to US and as humans we are failing miserably. God hasn't PERSONALLY done ANYTHING for ANYONE. If I am wrong then some1 PROVE to me that I am.

People don't give themselves enough credit.

[Pulp_Fiction]

So who created God? Take your time... I'll wait.

LOL!!!! I was waiting for that, because it always comes back to "well you can't prove ...". Then religion offers a viable explanation and you keep asking why until they eventually run out of responses and hit the faith barrier and then you call bullshit because this isn't backed up by proof. Thats basically a self fulfilling prophesy.

And I won't lie, it is tough to believe in god sometimes. There is so much evil, hatred, suffering, and death in this world that it makes no sense. But all we have is the human perspective. Had go not given us free choice we would all be like the Stepford Wives and no one wants that. Our pitiful little minds can't even begin to fathom the idea of an omnipotent being who created the universe and whose believers go into a paradise with streets paved of gold.

Does heaven have limited space? Where do murderers go to heaven? I never did anything wrong and pray everyday, why did I get cancer at the age of 15? We don't know the answer to these questions. God does, and the fact that he does know this but won't cue us in pisses us off. Why is some little child born dying of cancer and lives till the age of 2? I don't know, and it is hard to put your faith in a supposedly loving being who allws this to happen. But, the world isn't fair and we will never understand this. Why? Because we only understand what our minds allow. The human factor so to speak.

[BABY J]

Faith created God - I see. Faith is the shit.

[NewGen33]

I'm a christian and would love everyone to convert to my beliefs but that will NEVER happen. I don't go around preaching about my religion because I don't like forcing it on anyone. I would hate for someone to come up to me and try and do it with theirs. If someone was to ask me about Christianity then sure I'll be more than happy to talk about it. It has happen before and the way I see it the opportunity will be placed on the person and I if it is meant to be. With every religion there is so much crookedness that it makes plenty of sense to just want to avoid it all together. It's unfortunate because so much has been lost through the years due to our own doing. 0.02

[geoff]

QD i feel for you man. i too have gone through some crap in my life, nowhere near what you experienced but still. its not that God did anything for you. to me i dont believe God does everything for me. i believe He loves me and will provide a way but i then have to take the initiative and act. im proud of you man and i hate to say it but from the way you speak you are probably better than most " christians " i know. that being said, your almost there...i too sometimes have doubts and questions about my faith, every christian does or they are a liar. its in our human nature to turn from Him, but its in our souls nature to cry out and seek Him. thats why so many people are on the fence. everything else in this world has become tainted and we have a hard time distinguishing between truth and corruption. i see why so many people doubt God and christianity as a whole. but there are some genuine people of faith that care, that try and live good lives. i dont try and force my religion on anyone, i just have love for my God and my fellow man and the bible tells me not to keep my faith to myself but to spread the word. i dont mean it to come out offensively or forcefully. im human too and sometimes i get aggrivated.

living right is only part of the equation. God wants a relationship with you just as you would want one with your own children. its amazing when you seek truth and seek God and find Him and just get lost in reverence and awe for who He is. have you ever tried to honestly seek God? not based on what someone tells you or what you hear but to just seek Him yourself. i encourage you to do that. you seem like a cool guy who has a good head on his shoulders, like i said man your already half way there. all you have left is to push hard past the accepted godless world view and seek the truth yourself. God bless you and your family. i will be praying for you guys

[quickdodge®]

LOL!!!! I was waiting for that, because it always comes back to "well you can't prove ...".

And I love it when people respond to "where's the proof" with this. Instead of showing any proof, you only want to argue that that's all we want.


Then religion offers a viable explanation and you keep asking why until they eventually run out of responses and hit the faith barrier and then you call bullshit because this isn't backed up by proof.

Lolol. Ahhhh, the good book. You have no way of showing true, real proof so you point to that magical book. Sherlock Holmes was in a few books and he said a lot of things. But that doesn't mean he was real does it? So we should just go on word that something is so without proof of it? In that case, if I insisted I could fly, you wouldn't ask me to show you? You wouldn't ask me to prove it to you? While you say proof of His existence is in the book, I can say, "there's the sky and I have arms that I can use for wings" for my proof. I don't have to actually show you that I can do it. Where you say look at the trees and everything that surrounds you and those are objects of God, I just have to show you the objects of flight (the sky, my arms for wings).

What I don't understand about all this is that you people expect everyone to believe something so powerful, something that allegedly created everything we have ever known, but we're not to have proof of it. Yet when someone says that their car just ran 11.2 at the track in a stock Civic, you jump up asking where the time slip is...the proof. Wow. I just blew my own damn mind. Lolol. Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

Crazy we both got on here at the same time.


you seem like a cool guy who has a good head on his shoulders, like i said man your already half way there. all you have left is to push hard past the accepted godless world view and seek the truth yourself. God bless you and your family. i will be praying for you guys

I do have a good head on my shoulders. And I don't mind a decent discussion with another. Even if there are differences in total thought. But it's all good and I don't look at you with any ill repute. Maybe one day we'll meet. Off the record, too, if you don't mind, lolol. Later, QD.

[masonhenson]

I myself believe that the more intelligent you become, the harder it is to be faithful to anything that is not tangible. By the time I became a freshman in high school I had stopped believing in God. I do not try to go around flaunting that, but it is still my personal beliefs.

[ueyedgr8tness]

Well i tell you this thread is starting to turnout mature again:) 1 other thing is i have to believe in god because i was raised around a dad that trusted him to the max and did things that would make a no since to a person that doe's not no him in a personal way.I will give u the reasons why i no he is real.


I was around 8yr old when we was on a church trip back from mexico we had given all our money away to the kids pretty much and had just a few $ left.at the time i was like wow! u got to be kidding me this church stuff is going to get us stranded out here in the middle of no where lost.It was about 4-5 car's all travel together we have enough $ to get to the alabama line by the time we pulled up on (E) for the last fill up the pastor filled every 1 else up with the little money he had and then said lets see if god wil work for us. He pulled out duck tape from my dads old van"which was our work van also" he put tape over the empty gas hand and prayed then drove from the alabama line to out side athens ga on (E) ran out of gas as he was turning in to his house. U can say what ever you like about luck are whatever,But from that moment on i think my belief in god growed because luck would not have ever got him that far on (E) about 121miles :)

I could go on for day's about some amazing stuff i have seen on the road when we would go to mexico 2 times a yr every since i was born but i can only remember most of it from 8yr old and up.I can not even make up the stories because is so many ppl that seen it happen time and time again.I can't say that i walk close enough to god that i can do that but i can say in my personal life i have prayed for things and g(GOD) has stepped out of no where and gave them to me ino that for a fact.


Q.D i respect the way u live and wish more ppl lived by those rules because this world would be a better place if they did not to mention the crime rate would go to 0 just from living by the 10 commandments.

[quickdodge®]

I was around 8yr old when we was on a church trip back from mexico we had given all our money away to the kids pretty much and had just a few $ left.at the time i was like wow! u got to be kidding me this church stuff is going to get us stranded out here in the middle of no where lost.It was about 4-5 car's all travel together we have enough $ to get to the alabama line by the time we pulled up on (E) for the last fill up the pastor filled every 1 else up with the little money he had and then said lets see if god wil work for us. He pulled out duck tape from my dads old van"which was our work van also" he put tape over the empty gas hand and prayed then drove from the alabama line to out side athens ga on (E) ran out of gas as he was turning in to his house. U can say what ever you like about luck are whatever,But from that moment on i think my belief in god growed because luck would not have ever got him that far on (E) about 121miles :)

So you're sure beyond a reasonable and scientific doubt that you had just enough gas to get you guys back to church. That if you had shut God out of your life, you would have been stranded further back up the road? No possible way that could happen? Man, dude.

Now don't get me wrong. I can understand exactly where you're coming from. I know, to a religious person, the power of prayer is strong. And when you do pray as often as some folks do, they want to attribute any good fortune with God doing it. And that just reinforces the belief you have in God. The reality is you (or anyone) don't KNOW that God is real. Your belief is so strong that you FEEL He is real. I don't have any problems with people or their religion. It's all good to me.

But if a non-believer were to be in the same situation, it would just be that he was lucky enough to just have enough gas.


but i can say in my personal life i have prayed for things and g(GOD) has stepped out of no where and gave them to me ino that for a fact.

You can't KNOW that, homey. As I said in an earlier post about my homelessness. I didn't pray for help. I did it because I knew it had to be done. But I respect that that's what you fell or believe happened.

I don't mean this to be condescending at all, but if you feel like you have to have God as your way through life, then that's cool. To an extent, it doesn't matter how you survive. It's just that you do. Fro me, I put myself into my bad spots and I got myself out of them.



Q.D i respect the way u live and wish more ppl lived by those rules because this world would be a better place if they did not to mention the crime rate would go to 0 just from living by the 10 commandments.

I agree, dude. If we were to meet, you'd see that in me. What you see (online) is most definitely what you DON'T get (offline). I look forward to the day we meet up as we've been on here "knowing" each for a minute now. Later, QD.

[EJ25RUN]

There are plenty of religions that don't have the ten commandments and they worked much better than Christianity ever has.

[ueyedgr8tness]

We will meet 1 day QD lol!! But on the real side we need to go to isreal 1 day and do some tracking.I have never been but my dad has went with my bro and i have found them come back with a new outlook on life.

[geoff]

QD i would love to meet up with you bro. looking forward to it.

[Tracy]

why i believe in God... why not? I would rather believe that i have a better place to go when i die other than no where.I mean i can't really understand how people don't get it u don't want to believe in nothing thats fine live the rest of your life thinking when u die thats it:( so what if i believe in god i would like to think that if i was wrong and god does not exist then whoopi doo i loss nothing. BUT!!!! lets say i die and next thing i no here is another world that i have read about in the bible and all this is true.then it was worth every minute i spent learning. as for the people with no beliefs sad sad day...

.

What if "something" does exist and you spent all of your time believing in the wrong thing?

In addition, do you think if you live a good life that follows the commandments (I do, but don't necessarily believe in the Bible. It just happens to be that the commandments go along with how I choose to live.) that the God you believe in will send me to hell? Can I just live a good life and question the Bible and still go to heaven if there is one. Shouldn't God forgive my ignorance if the worst thing I did was question his existence based on the common sense he gave me?

[geoff]

common sense He gave you? You cant earn your way into heaven. you have to accept the gift of salvation by accepting God into your life.

[EJ25RUN]

common sense He gave you? You cant earn your way into heaven. you have to accept the gift of salvation by accepting God into your life.

That's why we laugh at you.

You're no different than a Muslim extremest.

[quickdodge®]

That's why we laugh at you.

We? Later, QD.

[EJ25RUN]

We? Later, QD.

Not the people in this thread.

The people who see any religion that forces beliefs onto others as wrong.

[quickdodge®]

Not the people in this thread.

The people who see any religion that forces beliefs onto others as wrong.

I'm in this thread and see any religion that forces beliefs onto others as wrong. But I don't laugh at those people. I just find it annoying. Later, QD.

[EJ25RUN]

I'm in this thread and see any religion that forces beliefs onto others as wrong. But I don't laugh at those people. I just find it annoying. Later, QD.

In honesty more than humor, it actually angers me. Laugh wasn't the best word for it. Freedom of Religion should mean freedom from idiots Religion as well.

[True Pyroman]

I got baptised at 15 so I could get laid.




























didn't get laid but got some nice booby action. :D

[bu villain]

why i believe in God... why not? I would rather believe that i have a better place to go when i die other than no where.I mean i can't really understand how people don't get it u don't want to believe in nothing thats fine live the rest of your life thinking when u die thats it:( so what if i believe in god i would like to think that if i was wrong and god does not exist then whoopi doo i loss nothing. BUT!!!! lets say i die and next thing i no here is another world that i have read about in the bible and all this is true.then it was worth every minute i spent learning. as for the people with no beliefs sad sad day...

See at least this guy is honest with himself. He believes because it makes him feel better than if he didn't. But there is still some problems with the logic here. If you are wrong you don't know that you lose nothing. You are assuming the only choices are no God or the Christian God. Maybe you are worshipping the wrong God and the real God(s) hate it when you worship the Christian one.

[Tracy]

common sense He gave you? You cant earn your way into heaven. you have to accept the gift of salvation by accepting God into your life.I accept God and he accepts me and my questions.

[boosted_nonv]

sad world we live in, some really sad peeps on here

[quickdodge®]

sad world we live in, some really sad peeps on here

In who's eyes? Later, QD.

[ahabion]

Honestly what it seemed like in the OP is that he is trying to hint at why the hardcore athiests are so hellbent on telling everyone their beliefs about nothing. "God doesn't exist, why can you believe in that shit? There is no empyrical evidence ...." those kinds of people. And I honestly don't understand why you want to spread a message of nothingness but, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Now I am a christian, BUT, I am a terrible example of what one should be so I don't preach about it or wear crosses. I drink alot, swear alot, and do dumb shit so I don't like to flaunt it cause I am certainly not setting an example. The only time I will tell someone about my religion is if they ask. The reason I do this, I don't want someone forcing their beliefs on me so I pay everyone else the courtesy. Those people on the street corners preaching Jesus annoy me as well, I appreciate why they are there, but it pisses me off and if they were gonna stand somewhere stand in front of a church or something, not a fucking rock concert. All they are doing is giving religion a bad name and they are doing so much more harm than good for their cause. Most christians aren't like this.

@EJdm: I still debate this with my hardcore christian friend (who sleeps around alot .. go figure). I personally don't think the bible condemns homosexuality. Here is my reasoning, god made them. I have also noticed that most people who think homosexuals go to hell also believe that it is a choice. No, it is not a choice. You don't just wake up and say "well, today I like women because it is more socially acceptable", you are born with an attraction to one sex or the other thats it. If you want me to elaborate further I can but for now I am exhausted, school is killing me!

Well addressed. You can call yourself Christian but are not one through your actions.

The single biggest cause of Atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Him with their lips but walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. Now THAT is what an unbelieving world simply finds, unbelievable.

and what you personally think of homosexuality not being condemned by God (or at least shouldn't) is Biblically wrong or mis-informed (along with your hardcare Christian friend who sleeps around alot)... Read 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and if it don't get much more plain than that... Keep reading that chapter and it explains why.

[ahabion]

i have my belief not from what someone taught or told me. i am new to christianity. i have had my own personal experiences with God that i can not deny. they were miracles and signs and wonders. God has spoken to me through the bible several times. He has answered all my prayers, HE built up my faith not some man. i can say God exists cuz i honestly sought after Truth and found Him at the end of the road.

Geoff, I admire your flame for God and that you may continue to fan it. Continue to pursue God with relentless passion and gaining understanding; however, your view (and many others) of God is immature. I was once like you many years ago, but as I came to understand my ignorance of God so too came the understanding of my own inequity.

For you and many other's here, I think 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 would best describe all of us.

[geoff]

my view of God is immature? please explain...

[ahabion]

my view of God is immature? please explain...

What I mean when I say your view of God is immature, is that your faith is immature. As you mature in your faith, so will you understand more deeply the work and word your Father in heaven has left for you to learn about.

The hope and goal of any Christian and follower of Christ is to imitate the life and principles He has left us with. How is coming forward on a public forum, openly taunting and challenging anyone who is not of the faith, holy and pleasing to God? How does that further His kingdom? or is that your kingdom come or your will be done, as it is in forum or this earth? Right now, you operate on an emotional high (which is awesome, it really is) but feelings betray you. Life in the light is not about feelings or emotions but relationship and principle. For we do not come to God to feel good, otherwise we'd be chasing after feeling good. We come to God because He is revered and sovereign over our soul. Because it is in Him that we are, without Him, we are nothing.

[BABY J]

my view of God is immature? please explain...

Bc that's what all of you Christians do to --- JUDGE. You're not immune. LOL. How does it feel?

[Me86Rob]

i will ofcourse respond to all questions and comments with scriptural proof, scientific proof, and general common sense. God bless you all and i appreciate and other believers out there that want to just chime in and give some help. lets get out there and start doing what Jesus our Lord told us to do and go preach the gospel to every creature
thats interesting. cause i can show you scientific proof that jesus christ never was...and that christianity is going to be a dead religin on about 140 years or so. soo.....

[TheProfiteer]

.................and then the fury of the lord came down on all of the nonbelievers, the blasphemers, heretics and The Jews. For it is the will of the lord to shadow the world in a blanket of suffering and misguided zealotry. It is the chosen that rise above the rest, the chosen that are truly righteous, the chosen who may bask in the truth that is the word of god, it is the chosen who will conform. So that the kings of the promise land, with in all their might and glory, will revel in the eternal bliss that is the lord.

[quickdodge®]

Bc that's what all of you Christians do to --- JUDGE. You're not immune. LOL. How does it feel?

That's the big truth. Pre-judging a book by it's cover is a huge turn off to being a "true Christian." Even though it's taught not to do so.

About 15 years ago, I was going out with a girl that had two children (girl and boy). I think the little girl was three or so. They were straight up church folks (the parents) and even lived on a church campground. They didn't like me from the time they met me because of my tattoos. I'm not an impolite person by any means. I'm a "yes ma'am" "no sir" person through and through. And it wasn't/isn't an act. It's how I was raised. These people saw my tattoos and immediately ostracized me. And they told their daughter (my GF) that. Told her that I was dangerous and was putting her and her children in danger.

The fuck??!!

You know they even went so far as to tell her they had detectives investigating me for molesting he three year old daughter? Said that if she didn't leave me, they would take her children away from her and proceed with the investigation. I ended up leaving her, telling her that that's the best thing right now. And not ever let a man take precedence over her children. If it was mean to be, it was meant to be. Two years later, we reconnected and got back together and then I found out she was strung out on coke and other drugs and lost her children. She told me it was because of what her parents did to us.

Backstabbing, untrustworthy anyone?

I was dating a girl from a church in Snellville. I met her through church friends that were dating as well. They ended up getting engaged and all was cool. No it wasn't. Both the dude getting married and my GF ended up cheating on their respective others. For a couple of months. The fuck?? They got married instead and divorced a year later.

It's shit like this that really gets me thinking about the quality of people I like to get involved with. The last time i went to a church was with that previous girl. Later, QD.

[dorin48]

I am no longer a Christian due to some experiences in my life. I still feel the need for spiritual fulfillment but my logical side refuses to let me believe. If I went to church now I would betray myself.

I also have to express my displeasure over the lukewarm stances. If you are a believer, revel in it. Learn everything there is to know, grow and interpret. If you can't do that then you need to ask yourself the hard questions. Am I doing this because I am a coward? Do I need to believe in God simply because non-existance scares me? Am I just doing what is expected? I'll insert Revelation 3:15-16 here.

I'm getting married next year and my best man is a preacher's son. He is incredibly knowledgeable and intellectual. I pick his brain constantly and we always have philosophical discussions on the nature of faith and existence.

On the flip side another one of my groomsmen went to Florida Christian College and dropped out because he was unable to complete a research paper. Proving the Bible. He found that, for him, it wasn't possible and logic used in resources seemed flawed. He went to art school instead.

My wife to be is Pagan. A religion far older than Christianity, yet Christian practices stole greatly from and persecuted this religion. Why should I relate my self to that? She lived in Guam for several years and ,aside from the fact that almost the entire population is devout catholic and learns the will of god, children would spit on her, call her names, and even threw rocks at her simply because she had different skin.

Do I want to believe in god? sure. Will I believe in god? no. Will I go to church? no.

It would honestly take something irrefutable "a miracle" at this point in my life for me to return to Christianity.

[BABY J]

^^ I Like this guy.

[dorin48]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

These questions are a tell tale sign of ignorance. Lets apply logic to the questions.

I exist. Things around me exist and are tangible. God is not tangible mentally or physically. So, in order to make god tangible I need faith. Faith is the direct opposite of tangibility.

Tangibility vs Faith = God vs Logic

As for the second question. If you did some research you would see there is plenty of overlap between religions. The differences could come from a multitude of reasons but an easy one is cultural development over time.

[fivex684]

The problem I have with christianity is you guys pick and choose which bits you believe and practice. It's almost a joke to how hypocritical you (christians) have become.

Penn & Teller Bullshit gives the gist of some of the bullshit in the bible.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=009_1198085630

[Jblizzard]

I am no longer a Christian due to some experiences in my life. I still feel the need for spiritual fulfillment but my logical side refuses to let me believe. If I went to church now I would betray myself.

I also have to express my displeasure over the lukewarm stances. If you are a believer, revel in it. Learn everything there is to know, grow and interpret. If you can't do that then you need to ask yourself the hard questions. Am I doing this because I am a coward? Do I need to believe in God simply because non-existance scares me? Am I just doing what is expected? I'll insert Revelation 3:15-16 here.

I'm getting married next year and my best man is a preacher's son. He is incredibly knowledgeable and intellectual. I pick his brain constantly and we always have philosophical discussions on the nature of faith and existence.

On the flip side another one of my groomsmen went to Florida Christian College and dropped out because he was unable to complete a research paper. Proving the Bible. He found that, for him, it wasn't possible and logic used in resources seemed flawed. He went to art school instead.

My wife to be is Pagan. A religion far older than Christianity, yet Christian practices stole greatly from and persecuted this religion. Why should I relate my self to that? She lived in Guam for several years and ,aside from the fact that almost the entire population is devout catholic and learns the will of god, children would spit on her, call her names, and even threw rocks at her simply because she had different skin.

Do I want to believe in god? sure. Will I believe in god? no. Will I go to church? no.

It would honestly take something irrefutable "a miracle" at this point in my life for me to return to Christianity.

sounds like you got hope and faith mixed up at one point.

[geoff]

like i said, i didnt mean to offend anyone on this forum. i see all the time people flaming christianity and just so hellbent on disproving something they dont believe. my purpose was just to find out where these guys are coming from. as far as immature, i wouldnt exactly put it that way. i would say more that my faith is developing just as everyone elses takes time to develop. there is no such thing as reaching the pinacle of faith or the top level in Christ. i try to live my life according to His word, i try and spread the gospel as Jesus commanded, i refuse to be quiet about my faith cuz its not Gods' plan. some people will listen and others will not. has been this way for a long time. but i refuse to keep silent just because someone might get offended, Lord knows there are a few thirsty souls out there seeking truth and dont have anyone to point them in the right direction.

[Tracy]

like i said, i didnt mean to offend anyone on this forum. i see all the time people flaming christianity and just so hellbent on disproving something they dont believe. my purpose was just to find out where these guys are coming from. as far as immature, i wouldnt exactly put it that way. i would say more that my faith is developing just as everyone elses takes time to develop. there is no such thing as reaching the pinacle of faith or the top level in Christ. i try to live my life according to His word, i try and spread the gospel as Jesus commanded, i refuse to be quiet about my faith cuz its not Gods' plan. some people will listen and others will not. has been this way for a long time. but i refuse to keep silent just because someone might get offended, Lord knows there are a few thirsty souls out there seeking truth and dont have anyone to point them in the right direction.
I have been involved in most of the religious discussions on this forum and IMO they don't go off on an unreasonable tangent. For the most part people are pretty good about stating their opinions and backing them up in a mature way. In all honesty, it seems to me like the religious ones are the ones who get offended when questions are posed. It's easy for us to say why we have questions—that's where the tangibility factor comes into play. There isn't really all that much to defend. On the other hand, humans tend to have a hard time when it comes to "abstract" things and it's "your" job to prove your point and back it up with facts that are understandable to people who haven't been "struck" by God and his miracles yet. That is the hard task. Most of the time the discussion goes back to faith and the Bible. It's a vicious cycle. If we ask about the word, don't refer us back to the word in question. It just doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with your stance. In all honesty, I have read the Bible and started on the Torah trying to find something to strike me. It's not that I am not open to any of the possibilities—It just hasn't happened for me....yet.

[ahabion]

That's the big truth. Pre-judging a book by it's cover is a huge turn off to being a "true Christian." Even though it's taught not to do so.

About 15 years ago, I was going out with a girl that had two children (girl and boy). I think the little girl was three or so. They were straight up church folks (the parents) and even lived on a church campground. They didn't like me from the time they met me because of my tattoos. I'm not an impolite person by any means. I'm a "yes ma'am" "no sir" person through and through. And it wasn't/isn't an act. It's how I was raised. These people saw my tattoos and immediately ostracized me. And they told their daughter (my GF) that. Told her that I was dangerous and was putting her and her children in danger.

The fuck??!!

You know they even went so far as to tell her they had detectives investigating me for molesting he three year old daughter? Said that if she didn't leave me, they would take her children away from her and proceed with the investigation. I ended up leaving her, telling her that that's the best thing right now. And not ever let a man take precedence over her children. If it was mean to be, it was meant to be. Two years later, we reconnected and got back together and then I found out she was strung out on coke and other drugs and lost her children. She told me it was because of what her parents did to us.

Backstabbing, untrustworthy anyone?

I was dating a girl from a church in Snellville. I met her through church friends that were dating as well. They ended up getting engaged and all was cool. No it wasn't. Both the dude getting married and my GF ended up cheating on their respective others. For a couple of months. The fuck?? They got married instead and divorced a year later.

It's shit like this that really gets me thinking about the quality of people I like to get involved with. The last time i went to a church was with that previous girl. Later, QD.

That is messed up QD, no doubt about it. I'd be ticked off too if I was in your shoes.

The big but in this is that church didn't do those things... the people did. What I find amusing (and not slamming you or anyone here, Atheist or Christian) is that people tend to think that just because a person may go to church or does attend church/temple and calls themselves [fill in the blank], that they are perfect or any better than anybody else or closer to "perfection"... people inside and outside the church think this. This is the great lie that has been spread across the country and sown into our culture.

The truth is that church is made of imperfect people. People in an imperfect world doing imperfect things in our imperfect lives. Just because people attend, worship, or do whatever, does not make them any better or worse than the next. There is no promise (at least in Christianity) of a problem-free life nor a promise that things will always go your way. The promise made by God (biblically speaking) is the promise of peace (John 16:33) and the promise that God is always working for you... not against you (Matthew 1, not necessarily the birth of Jesus... but more of the humanity of Joseph and the circumstances surrounding him in all this... can elaborate if need be...)

[ahabion]

like i said, i didnt mean to offend anyone on this forum. i see all the time people flaming christianity and just so hellbent on disproving something they dont believe. my purpose was just to find out where these guys are coming from. as far as immature, i wouldnt exactly put it that way. i would say more that my faith is developing just as everyone elses takes time to develop. there is no such thing as reaching the pinacle of faith or the top level in Christ. i try to live my life according to His word, i try and spread the gospel as Jesus commanded, i refuse to be quiet about my faith cuz its not Gods' plan. some people will listen and others will not. has been this way for a long time. but i refuse to keep silent just because someone might get offended, Lord knows there are a few thirsty souls out there seeking truth and dont have anyone to point them in the right direction.

Absolutely don't stay quiet but don't be like Peter. Your heart and passions are in the right place but you are like Peter who would react to their emotions and feelings but fail to seize the true nature of what his teacher was trying to get through to them.

Calm your spirit and wait upon the Lord. Wait and listen for his voice of the Holy Spirit, and then be obedient when he calls upon you. As human beings, this is our true act of service, love, and obedience to God. Think of the calling when Jesus first met with Peter... what was Peter doing? Even in that instance, Jesus told him to cast his net on the other side... so should you as well if you're not catching anything...

[quickdodge®]

Just because people attend, worship, or do whatever, does not make them any better or worse than the next.

I understand exactly what you're saying.

But I have to respond on this line alone. You're right in that doesn't make them better. The problem is, though, that these people THINK they are because they go to church. That's why they look down their noses at people like me. We know they aren't any better, but they don't. Later, QD.

[Jblizzard]

I understand exactly what you're saying.

But I have to respond on this line alone. You're right in that doesn't make them better. The problem is, though, that these people THINK they are because they go to church. That's why they look down their noses at people like me. We know they aren't any better, but they don't. Later, QD.


I can totally agree with this. You (not you specifically, but people in general) shouldn't be judged by Christians - Technically they should serve you no matter your belief.

[sport_122]

when i was in college i had a roommate who is probably the best example I've met of how a Christian should live. he was real cool, always humble, never pushy about his faith...but ppl were just naturally curious about him because of how he behaved and found out about his beliefs once they got to know him. And from that he started up a Bible study in the dorm.

He taught me that if you *really* live your life by the Bible, others will take notice and you'll have your opportunity to preach to ppl who are genuinely interested and might really benefit. ppl are naturally drawn to folks whose lives are guided by real purpose. Jesus said this himself...

there's no need to beat ppl over the head with your beliefs. you just need to work on being the best example of living the Christian life that you can be...and the rest will fall into place. but this can be said about any religion.

another interesting thread.

the only thing you have to remember is that the Christian faith openly says that we cannot live up to the standard which is held before us. This to the person on the outside looking in is always where people like to play the gotcha game. When the truth of the Christian faith is that we all come from a place of where we have struggled and wrestled with our short comings and we will continue to do so.

In many cases, the legalism that some believers display is another one of these problems. Unfortunately, many of us still act like the Christian faith is about us living our lives to a certain standard and it isn't. It is however about us not being able to live our lives to the standard that is laid out before us and being in desperate need of grace. I often wonder if that is a place where the believer and the non-believer can start to agree? The place that says, no matter the standard I set for myself or the standard that God has set for me, I am going to need grace because I cannot live up to that standard.

[BABY J]

another interesting thread.

the only thing you have to remember is that the Christian faith openly says that we cannot live up to the standard which is held before us. This to the person on the outside looking in is always where people like to play the gotcha game. When the truth of the Christian faith is that we all come from a place of where we have struggled and wrestled with our short comings and we will continue to do so.

In many cases, the legalism that some believers display is another one of these problems. Unfortunately, many of us still act like the Christian faith is about us living our lives to a certain standard and it isn't. It is however about us not being able to live our lives to the standard that is laid out before us and being in desperate need of grace. I often wonder if that is a place where the believer and the non-believer can start to agree? The place that says, no matter the standard I set for myself or the standard that God has set for me, I am going to need grace because I cannot live up to that standard.

People can live up to the standard that they set for themselves quite easily. Go to a trailer park and have a look around. A lot of those people want no more than what they have. The same can said for CEOs of business. Living to a standard that you set and continually change for yourself is very powerful - bc you can see progress and can even "arrive" if you set your mark low enuff. You don't need "grace" from an invisible character to do so. You don't need words from another "man" (bible) to do so either.

[geoff]

i have heard the calling my friend. and my net is not empty. some " christians " dont realize the seriousness of the word. Jesus is coming back for a people called by His name, you know the eternity in store for non believers. think about this for a second. every day thousands if not more people die. how many of those would you say are truly Gods' children? i have a burden to tell someone about what God is doing and the plan of salvation. you can call me emotional or whatever you want, thats not going to hinder me from doing what Christ said to spread the gospel to every creature.

[quickdodge®]

every day thousands if not more people die. how many of those would you say are truly Gods' children?

According to my understanding, wouldn't every one of those people be God's children? Later, QD.

[geoff]

we are all Gods' children in the sense that He is our creator ( Father ) BUT, those that accept Christ and live according to His Word are His people called by His name.

[SPOOLIN]

this is what i think.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c203/spoolinmatt/churchsign.jpg

[dorin48]

sounds like you got hope and faith mixed up at one point.

You're going to have to elaborate. As I see it I am not confused.

If you want me to take what you have to say seriously don't drop vague one liners and bail on the thread.



hope (hp)
v. hoped, hop·ing, hopes
v.intr.
1. To wish for something with expectation of its fulfillment.
2. Archaic To have confidence; trust.
v.tr.
1. To look forward to with confidence or expectation: We hope that our children will be successful.
2. To expect and desire. See Synonyms at expect.
n.
1. A wish or desire accompanied by confident expectation of its fulfillment.
2. Something that is hoped for or desired: Success is our hope.
3. One that is a source of or reason for hope: the team's only hope for victory.
4. often Hope Christianity The theological virtue defined as the desire and search for a future good, difficult but not impossible to attain with God's help.
5. Archaic Trust; confidence.
Idiom:
hope against hope
To hope with little reason or justification.


faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Idiom:
in faith
Indeed; truly.



I was never waiting in earnest for something. I made a decision because it is not within me to blindly follow.

[Jblizzard]

In simple,

Hope - Going on what God is going to do for you.

Faith - It's already been done and you have to go out and achieve it (if its a goal your chasing) or conquer it(if difficulty has arose in your path).


I.E. If you want to be a pro ball player - you hope one day you make it. You think God is going to give it to your if you work hard enough.

Example of going on Faith - You are already a pro ball player - you just have to go out and work for it.

People often get this mixed up and get mad when something comes up in life - I am not directly attacking you or asking you to rethink things, I just simply mentioned it appeared to be a confusion. If this is not true for you, cool.

[quickdodge®]

In simple,

Hope - Going on what God is going to do for you.

Faith - It's already been done and you have to go out and achieve it (if its a goal your chasing) or conquer it(if difficulty has arose in your path).

No way, man. There is no HOPE in religion. You don't hope you go to heaven. You have faith that you will. Faith is not anything that has already been done. At least not factually. Faith is what you call the belief someone has in the Bible, God and religion. Acting on faith is you going for your goals and believing that God is there with you every step of the way. Later, QD.

[Jblizzard]

No way, man. There is no HOPE in religion. You don't hope you go to heaven. You have faith that you will. Faith is not anything that has already been done. At least not factually. Faith is what you call the belief someone has in the Bible, God and religion. Acting on faith is you going for your goals and believing that God is there with you every step of the way. Later, QD.


Thats essentially what I am saying - people seem to get those mixed up. By mixed up - I mean replacing one with the other.

[ahabion]

i have heard the calling my friend. and my net is not empty. some " christians " dont realize the seriousness of the word. Jesus is coming back for a people called by His name, you know the eternity in store for non believers. think about this for a second. every day thousands if not more people die. how many of those would you say are truly Gods' children? i have a burden to tell someone about what God is doing and the plan of salvation. you can call me emotional or whatever you want, thats not going to hinder me from doing what Christ said to spread the gospel to every creature.

I'm not saying that it is but study the life of Peter and you'll understand where I'm coming from.

And believe me, I understand completely where you're coming from... I was once in your shoes and in my heart still am; however, I've matured in my faith to understand that God's plan is much bigger than I'll ever begin to fathom and ever imagine. That my work, no matter how great or small, is ever pleasing and accepting to God but never good enough of his glory. For his is his alone, there is nothing greater.

The danger becomes that as you spread the word, the soils on which it lands on differ depending on who hears it. For those with ears let them hear... the soils will differ but the quality of the seed is the same. Be careful of how you tend the garden, for as you spread the seed, you'll need to nourish it with food and water so it grows. You'll see your harvest more abundant as you grow in your faith maturity.

Like I said and will continue to say, your heart and passions are in the right place... now you just need to mature and seek wisdom.

[geoff]

thankyou. i got a couple guys on here that wanna meet up soon. we should do a bible study and i would like to have you on board. God bless

[Stuntman G]

[quote=geoff;38568957]you wouldnt stand idly by while a man put a gun to his head and shot himself would you?[quote]
That depends. Is he trying to get a useful conversation out of a topic that has been beaten to death for decades and will never reach closure? In that case, luck is not on his side. :no:

[_Christian_]

@s14unimog: 1/2 Christian? As opposed to a whole one? All that matters in the end is that you are saved and believe in God. You don't get on heaven based on works. Whether you go to church every sunday or not at all it makes no difference. Everyone worships and honors god in their own way. And making statements like the ones you made are all operating under the assumption that someone is capable of being a 100% pure christian. We are all humans and all flawed, religion is about purity in an unpure world and we do the best we can but we are all flawed and no one is capable of being 100% christian, thats kinda the whole point of religion there. Now I am non-demoninational so I just say christian, but this is totally different from a catholic perspective. Don't get me started on them, I'm sure I despise those catholic activists as much as anyone on here. Catholicism consists of way to many man made rituals, so please don't base your opinion of the christian religions on them.

Of course. It doesn't matter how good or moral you are, just that you believe.



It is also hard to argue faith. Thats what religion is, you put your faith in something beyond yourself. I can't prove to you that I am right but you can't prove I am wrong (religion in a nutshell).
The underwear gnomes in my dresser just created the universe 5 minutes ago and gave us all memories. Can you prove me wrong?


to add to the op thread i am going to say this.


to not believe VS to believe in a higher power such as (GOD)



why i believe in God... why not? I would rather believe that i have a better place to go when i die other than no where.I mean i can't really understand how people don't get it u don't want to believe in nothing thats fine live the rest of your life thinking when u die thats it:( so what if i believe in god i would like to think that if i was wrong and god does not exist then whoopi doo i loss nothing. BUT!!!! lets say i die and next thing i no here is another world that i have read about in the bible and all this is true.then it was worth every minute i spent learning. as for the people with no beliefs sad sad day...
Pascal's wager is fundamentally flawed on so many levels. First of all it's a false dichotomy, it ignores all other religions and all other hells to which you could be subjugated for choosing the wrong god. It also makes the claim that belief and worship cost nothing, which isn't true. There are also a couple of underlying assumptions...like that belief is subject to the will, in which case you choose to believe as an insurance policy, and that this god is credulous enough to buy into it.



u ask explain in a milder way..

Ok lets say u was going to cancun for vacation u hit that plane and u have no doubt!! in your mind in 5hr's u will be in cancun and the vacation will be so relaxing.But there is some things the pilot is going to have u do before u leave other wise u want leave,Now that is faith because you believe that u will be there in 5hr's. with faiths comes trust. U trust that the pilot is going to get you there alive.So u put your stuff up and grab the seat belt like your suppose to do.But u haven't even left the airport yet so why do u believe so much that u gonna make it??

Because u would rather believe,trust and have faith in the pilot that he is going to get you there.Now isnt that better than thinking u going to die on the way there? other wise u would have never jumped on that plane.

thats how i feel about God id rather trust his word and do what he would have me do so that i can make it to the other side..

There are two types of faith, testable and non-testable.

All theists/atheists require testable faith. We use it every day to walk, drive, work, perform any activity.

Non-testable faith can only be applied to religions that have a divine supernatural entity.

We all have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, but that faith is based on evidence rather than a lack of evidence like religious faith. Faith that your plane will arrive safely is based on evidence that there is a very low likelyhood of a crash. This is testable.



my original post was not to insult non-believers but to try and grasp as to what their reasoning behind not believing is.
Probably the same as your reasoning for not believing in leprechauns.



i think the biggest problem non-believers have falls in one of two categories or both. 1. they cant deal with the idea that they dont truly control their own lives. 2. they dont like to think that there are consequences for their actions. which one are you?

1. I'm fairly certain we have free will. We don't control some aspects of our lives, but that doesn't mean it's controlled by a cosmic universe creator. I have seen nothing in my life to which I needed to attribute to some supernatural cause.

2. There are plenty of worldly consequences for every action.



you know what i dont have facts to prove God and you dont have facts to disprove Him.
The burden of proof lies with those making the claim. You don't have the facts to disprove any other deities, by your own logic that puts the Judeo-Christian god on the same level as any other god as far as provability.


BUT, science points more towards the God of the Bible than to some random game of chance where everything came from nothing. all of this around here came from something that was not bound by our laws of physics. that means this thing had to be self aware and self conscience and created EVERYTHING for some purpose...no? or was it that nothing got bored one day and said let me roll the dice and see what happens? you may not agree to the God of the Bible and those reasons are your own to keep, but from your own mouth you agreed with me that all this came from something. to take a gamble that the God of the Bible is not Him and bet your eternity on something your not too sure about is not safe
Nothing is known about what exists outside of spacetime. It's the old god of the gaps argument. We don't have an explanation for a cause so therefor it's god. Creation itself is a causal activity. Causality is contigent upon time. How does a timeless being do causal things?


i have my belief not from what someone taught or told me. i am new to christianity. i have had my own personal experiences with God that i can not deny. they were miracles and signs and wonders. God has spoken to me through the bible several times. He has answered all my prayers, HE built up my faith not some man. i can say God exists cuz i honestly sought after Truth and found Him at the end of the road.
I can't question your personal experience, but I hope you can see how your experience isn't valid evidence for another person.

He has answered all your prayers? If that's true, please pray to end world hunger. I have a feeling it's just confirmation bias, but we'll see.


im tired and going to bed. gotta wake up early for work. will continue this tom. here is some food for thought tho. some claim that I KNOW GOD ISNT REAL!!!! to those i say in response, do you know or believe that you will wake up tommorow? do you know or believe that you will be here next week, month, year? ( got this from another site. pretty good tho.) sometimes believing is all we have. for in life, there is actually very little that we do know. good night, God bless, and i pray for you all daily...may God Himself build up your faith.
People who claim to know god isn't real are just as fundamentalist as religious people who claim to know god is real. It's a very closed minded way of thinking as neither can be known since such claims are not falsifiable.


Well i tell you this thread is starting to turnout mature again:) 1 other thing is i have to believe in god because i was raised around a dad that trusted him to the max and did things that would make a no since to a person that doe's not no him in a personal way.I will give u the reasons why i no he is real.


I was around 8yr old when we was on a church trip back from mexico we had given all our money away to the kids pretty much and had just a few $ left.at the time i was like wow! u got to be kidding me this church stuff is going to get us stranded out here in the middle of no where lost.It was about 4-5 car's all travel together we have enough $ to get to the alabama line by the time we pulled up on (E) for the last fill up the pastor filled every 1 else up with the little money he had and then said lets see if god wil work for us. He pulled out duck tape from my dads old van"which was our work van also" he put tape over the empty gas hand and prayed then drove from the alabama line to out side athens ga on (E) ran out of gas as he was turning in to his house. U can say what ever you like about luck are whatever,But from that moment on i think my belief in god growed because luck would not have ever got him that far on (E) about 121miles :)

God isn't the only possible explanation. You really think god used his infinite gas hack so you wouldn't be stranded but won't cure AIDS?

[ash7]

God isn't the only possible explanation. You really think god used his infinite gas hack so you wouldn't be stranded but won't cure AIDS?

Newsflash: yes, He did cure AIDS.

"Natural immunity to HIV/AIDS was discovered in some Nairobi sex workers by UM researchers in the 1980s and is thought to be one of the most promising leads for the development of a safe and effective vaccine to prevent HIV, but its rarity has made it difficult to establish a critical mass of data from which meaningful conclusions can be drawn."
http://umanitoba.ca/news/blogs/blog/2009/11/10/news-release-major-conference-on-natural-immunity-to-hivaids/

Now whether or not it will be actually pursued by those in charge of making such decisions to develop new medicines is debatable. As with everything in todays world, money is king. They make more money using the cocktails of drugs needed to enhance the immune system than they would if they actually cured the disease.

To the OP (geoff), it's always refreshing to see someone "on fire" like you. Keep your chin up, and keep up the Good Work bro - i'm praying for your success.

-jonathan

[5speed]

Good thread. I believe that God cant be doubted in my mind and soul. The very fact that we are living is evidence to me. Science is a great tool but it cant prove God exists, nor expel the existence. For example: A very close friend of my fiance had a grandmother who recently was told she wouldnt live for her next chemotherapy. It seemed so true bc she couldnt talk, walk, or much of anything else at all. Her last scans and other tests showed that the cancer had spreaded and her body was to weak to fight any longer. Then recently at the families church they prayed that she wouldnt suffer no longer and that she be blessed by entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Everyone accepted that she was on her deathbed. Then she began to get better until she was talking then walking and then back to normal. She felt good for the first time in a long time. Went to her doctors and tests were done and more scans. NO MORE CANCER!!! No science can explain that! That doesnt just happen by chance, that is the work of God.

[BABY J]

Good thread. I believe that God cant be doubted in my mind and soul. The very fact that we are living is evidence to me. Science is a great tool but it cant prove God exists, nor expel the existence. For example: A very close friend of my fiance had a grandmother who recently was told she wouldnt live for her next chemotherapy. It seemed so true bc she couldnt talk, walk, or much of anything else at all. Her last scans and other tests showed that the cancer had spreaded and her body was to weak to fight any longer. Then recently at the families church they prayed that she wouldnt suffer no longer and that she be blessed by entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Everyone accepted that she was on her deathbed. Then she began to get better until she was talking then walking and then back to normal. She felt good for the first time in a long time. Went to her doctors and tests were done and more scans. NO MORE CANCER!!! No science can explain that! That doesnt just happen by chance, that is the work of God.

Selfish.

Guess what - I don't pray, I make 6 figures a year. Is the God that I don't believe in showing me favor? Tell me about the things that you pray for that you DON'T get --- tell me about those. What about the MILLIONS of people that God is NOT good to. MILLIONS of devout followers who DIDN'T make it through their next cancer treatment. The notion that "well, God is good to ME and that's all that matters" is a CROCK. There are MORE people that She is NOT good too - explain that. The simple fact is that God (if She exists) is NOT good to a lot of the people a lot of the time. So you prayed for a job and you got job offers --- "God" MUST be good right? Well isn't that some selfish shit right there if I ever heard it. There are ALSO people who had a good job and just MAGICALLY lost it, became homeless, cracked out, and died. There are ALSO kids getting pimped and raped in alleys asking for invisible help from "God" that never arrives. "God" is SOO good - let me tell you.

Look sir... in life you don't always get what you pray for, you don't always get what you deserve... you get what you get... and that's whether you believe in God or not.

So you say God speaks to you? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? Do you REALLY think that a God capable of creating all the we see and all that we know thinks YOU are THAT special that She is going to take time out of her day to speak to you? LOL. Don't forget --- She also is going to take time out of Her existence to speak to the MILLIONS of other followers too? Interesting. Bill Gates can't take time to speak to a Microsoft help-desk worker in Podunk Kansas, but God has time to speak to you and a million and one other "believers". I find that interesting. You think that every bible-thumper has been created SOOOO uniquely that you have the "stuff" required to 'hear' from such a supernatural being? What SUPERNATURAL antenna or receptive device are you created with that allows such communication w/ this being?? I mean REALLY think about it... if a God that powerful "spoke" to you your head would probably fucking explode.

[Tracy]

She? Love it.

[5speed]

Selfish.

Guess what - I don't pray, I make 6 figures a year. Is the God that I don't believe in showing me favor? Tell me about the things that you pray for that you DON'T get --- tell me about those. What about the MILLIONS of people that God is NOT good to. MILLIONS of devout followers who DIDN'T make it through their next cancer treatment. The notion that "well, God is good to ME and that's all that matters" is a CROCK. There are MORE people that She is NOT good too - explain that. The simple fact is that God (if She exists) is NOT good to a lot of the people a lot of the time. So you prayed for a job and you got job offers --- "God" MUST be good right? Well isn't that some selfish shit right there if I ever heard it. There are ALSO people who had a good job and just MAGICALLY lost it, became homeless, cracked out, and died. There are ALSO kids getting pimped and raped in alleys asking for invisible help from "God" that never arrives. "God" is SOO good - let me tell you.

Look sir... in life you don't always get what you pray for, you don't always get what you deserve... you get what you get... and that's whether you believe in God or not.

So you say God speaks to you? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? Do you REALLY think that a God capable of creating all the we see and all that we know thinks YOU are THAT special that She is going to take time out of her day to speak to you? LOL. Don't forget --- She also is going to take time out of Her existence to speak to the MILLIONS of other followers too? Interesting. Bill Gates can't take time to speak to a Microsoft help-desk worker in Podunk Kansas, but God has time to speak to you and a million and one other "believers". I find that interesting. You think that every bible-thumper has been created SOOOO uniquely that you have the "stuff" required to 'hear' from such a supernatural being? What SUPERNATURAL antenna or receptive device are you created with that allows such communication w/ this being?? I mean REALLY think about it... if a God that powerful "spoke" to you your head would probably fucking explode.
I will start off by saying that I am not a Christian but am learning more about it and opening up to it in a way.

I know exactly what you mean. I have been in pretty bad situations myself and seen other people go through shit they should have never had to go through. Since this thread was posted in a Christian stance, then I will go in that notion. The Bible does not say that Believers will turn out just fine. Fact is we exist with free will and the only limitations we have are what others set for us and what we set for ourselves. Fortunately and unfortunately other peoples decisions affect our lives. You being successful has nothing to do with God. It doesn't matter to him/her(I don't care what sex, bc I don't think God has one)that you make 6 figures a year. You landed in that pretty good position bc you worked for it and others helped you along the way. You don't need God to do good or have morals. That within itself is something humans have to choose for themselves. To me God isn't God if he/she fits in our heads.

I have lived a pretty shitty life as a kid, then eventually a pretty good one where I was spoiled with money and whatever else I wanted. And then my father decided to be a fucking dumbass and mess around with CRACK. That poor decision sadly affected my families lives pretty badly. He went from making $23 an hour to nothing. We lost our home, land, and everything my parents worked hard for in a matter of 2 years. Eventually my dad went to jail and my mother became the sole provider. She had to feed three kids on just over minimum wage. We only had one Totinos pizza a day split between my 2 brothers and I. Moved out of a 2 story house built just for us into the shittiest trailer park imaginable. Then eventually she couldnt even afford that bc she had to feed us. Then she got into a car accident which left her disabled but yet she persevered and tried to keep her job which later let her go. Left with no income we were kicked out and then lived out of a car for half a year.

Things eventually got better. Fact is we and other choose what happens in our lives. Anything else unexplainable is left up to God imo. I dont understand it and wont until the day I die. I believe in a higher being and thats it. All I can do in this lifetime is help others and myself. I just wanna chill and learn everything I can about this world, and cars too! lol

[geoff]

i will be praying for you and your family 5speed. you seem like someone that is searching for something. if you have any questions about faith you can pm me any time bro.

[_Christian_]

Newsflash: yes, He did cure AIDS.

"Natural immunity to HIV/AIDS was discovered in some Nairobi sex workers by UM researchers in the 1980s and is thought to be one of the most promising leads for the development of a safe and effective vaccine to prevent HIV, but its rarity has made it difficult to establish a critical mass of data from which meaningful conclusions can be drawn."
http://umanitoba.ca/news/blogs/blog/2009/11/10/news-release-major-conference-on-natural-immunity-to-hivaids/

Now whether or not it will be actually pursued by those in charge of making such decisions to develop new medicines is debatable. As with everything in todays world, money is king. They make more money using the cocktails of drugs needed to enhance the immune system than they would if they actually cured the disease.

To the OP (geoff), it's always refreshing to see someone "on fire" like you. Keep your chin up, and keep up the Good Work bro - i'm praying for your success.

-jonathan
I like how you only responded to one half of a sentence in a way that had nothing to do with the point. You're also wrong. Until an effective vaccine is developed and administered to the infected, HIV/AIDS has not been cured. :screwy:

Edit: ...And even if/when AIDS is cured, what reason would one have to believe that it's the work of god(s) and not man?

[Mchnhead2k5]

"Natural immunity to HIV/AIDS was discovered in some Nairobi sex workers by UM researchers in the 1980s and is thought to be one of the most promising leads for the development of a safe and effective vaccine to prevent HIV, but its rarity has made it difficult to establish a critical mass of data from which meaningful conclusions can be drawn."
http://umanitoba.ca/news/blogs/blog/2009/11/10/news-release-major-conference-on-natural-immunity-to-hivaids/

-jonathan

Wouldn't natural immunity be a force of evolution working here? Just like when brown/black bears started living in the polar regions their coats would change to a white/lighter shade to blend in with surroundings giving the bears a better chance of living, survival of the fittest. How are the workers evolving, they are resistant to the AIDS/HIV virus and giving these workers a better chance to survive in the area.

[geoff]

you dont see how a natural immunity that has never been known to suddenly develop not be a work of God?

[Mchnhead2k5]

you dont see how a natural immunity that has never been known to suddenly develop not be a work of God?

So a work of god in your eyes, is him creating down syndrome children and children with autism when they first started appearing?

[Starrfire]

you dont see how a natural immunity that has never been known to suddenly develop not be a work of God?


So you're saying god believes in evolution, but Christian's as a whole do not?

[5speed]

I believe in creationism in but also along with evolution. I think things just eventually work out so that we may suit our environment.

[geoff]

i believe that evolution could be the explanation of how God works. i think were christians have a hard time with this is where some evolutionist believe life originated.

[EuroTra$h]

i believe that evolution could be the explanation of how God works. i think were christians have a hard time with this is where some evolutionist believe life originated.

Well in my opinion the whole big bang theory just doesn't make sense

If a watchmaker takes a bunch of parts and puts them in a box and burns

them or explodes them they don't just make a watch do they???

So how could things colliding and combusting create a planet that just so

happens to be habitable by humans?

[ahabion]

Well in my opinion the whole big bang theory just doesn't make sense

If a watchmaker takes a bunch of parts and puts them in a box and burns

them or explodes them they don't just make a watch do they???

So how could things colliding and combusting create a planet that just so

happens to be habitable by humans?

Another Science vs God debate going to insue shortly.... I can tell!

Science is a gift from God. All evidence and facts is not without a leap of faith further down the line. Science is facts plus faith. The Bible is facts plus faith. Whereby all the facts may point to some thing but then a "leap of faith" or "big bang" or "the missing link" to come to a conclusion later on (e.g. global warming).

One thing is certain for me however: All things point right back to it's creator.

[quickdodge®]

One thing is certain for me however: All things point right back to it's creator.

And this is what sucks. The FACT that we don't know what that creator is. Later, QD.

[StreetHazard]

This well NEVER be concluded, posting in this thread is a bit like jacking off and never being able to bust a load.

[geoff]

im not trying to conclude anything with this thread. i just wanted to see if any of you non believers have ever found yourselves turning to God for anything

[quickdodge®]

im not trying to conclude anything with this thread. i just wanted to see if any of you non believers have ever found yourselves turning to God for anything

I just now thought about this, but it's kind of a fucked up question. If someone were to turn to God for anything, then they wouldn't be non-believers. So this entire thread is like most Hollywood weddings.....null and void. Later, QD.

[BABY J]

Typical - LOL> The mind of a bible-thumper at work. "How many non-believers believe?" LOL. Wow.

[geoff]

not necessarily true, sometimes when the s#!t hits the fan people will find themselves turning to something they may not even believe in, just because they are so desperate. if you have never had to experience that before then your truly blessed

[BABY J]

No - if you haven't had to experience that you are LUCKY. There is no "blessing" in it - and if so it's just dumb luck.

Also - w/ 3 Afghanistans, 2 Baghdads, Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Desert Fox, Bahrain, D'jbouti, counter-drug missions, a tough life, a piece of shit dad,a kid out of wedlock, a few sore throats and a few paper cuts under my belt I'd say that I've had the shit hit the fan - and you know what, I reached INSIDE and got MYSELF out of it. I don't need to beg "God" for invisible help that never arrives. Kthanxbye.

[quickdodge®]

not necessarily true, sometimes when the s#!t hits the fan people will find themselves turning to something they may not even believe in, just because they are so desperate. if you have never had to experience that before then your truly blessed

And along with Baby J, as I stated before, I have 2 years of literal living on the streets of Atlanta under my belt.

Thank QD that I was able to get out of that mess. I don't consider myself blessed or lucky. I consider myself a person who realized what he was doing wrong and corrected it and now have a great life. Later, QD.

[BABY J]

^^ You're scaring me - you're like "making sense" and shit. Stop it. That doesn't belong in the religion section. Keep making sense and I wil ban you from this section of the board.

[Jaimecbr900]

I haven't been involved in a religion/Theology thread in a long time. Should've probably jumped in on this one a while back. I figured that even if I typed my typical wall of text that the IA heathens wouldn't ever understand that tangible is NO WHERE in the definition of FAITH. :rolleyes:

Everyone always wants something "tangible" BEFORE they believe, but fail to see that much like many of the beliefs that "non-believers" ardently stick to as "fact" are no more tangible than the religious FAITH itself they so quickly dismiss. Irony so thick you can cut it with a knife. :goodjob:

You guys want to talk about so-called "bible thumpers" being pushy? What about pants down to your knees? What about sideways hats? What about BET? What about giant billboards on the highway? What about Politicians? Each and every one of those are "pushing" something in people's faces each and every day that they don't necessarily agree with or believe, yet that's not as irritating to some as someone that says, "Hey, read the bible and see what you think.."?????? Is it because you guys care more about fashion, Television, and Politics???? Doubt it. It's because some of you want to ignore certain things and put importance on others. It's ok. It's called priorities. Some have politics as priorities, others religion. Why is one better than the other? How so?

Anyway, I've said enough for now. Yall know that I've gotten into some doozy debates on IA with some mighty intelligent people about this subject. Everyone has to make up their own mind as to what they believe and what they don't. If you need tangible to believe, then that's what YOU need. If you don't, then you don't. Just remember that "proof" is in the eye of the beholder.

How many times have "Scientists" who fell backward last year telling us that the world was flat only to come back this year to tell us something different?????? But some how, some way, THAT "Science" holds more water with some of you today than a book that hasn't changed much in 2000 years?......what about tommorow when they change their mind????? How many times have so called History books been updated and changed? Hell, how many of you grew up "learning" that Pluto was a planet.....how about now? Those are the "Scientists" that you want to hang your hat on???? Again, YOUR choice. :goodjob:

[Jaimecbr900]

Just for clarification, since there seems to be a need for that quite often in these debates: I am NOT trying to convert anyone to anything. I am NOT saying you are wrong and I'm right. I am saying that some of you guys are so critical of "religion" and lose sight of the fact that you embrace other things on "faith" alone. Why would it be hard for you to see then that some people believe what they believe based on FAITH too?:thinking:

That's my point. :goodjob:

[BABY J]

(1st off J the bible is not unchanged for the last 2k plus years sir. That's false.)

The bible is written by MEN as well. Just as a science book Jaime. "Streets of gold". Listen to that for a second. A "God" capable of creating all the we see and know would give 2 SHITS about "gold". But you know who DOES cherish gold? WE (men) do. What a coinkydink. A "God" capable of creating the sun - the moon - wind - black holes - why would the "best" he have to offer us be streets of "gold?" LOL. That's laughable. I refuse to believe in the tall tales of religious texts, do I find them inspirational to a person that would be enduring something?? Sure. But either way most times it is outdated and non-applicable. Why would a God capable of creating the Rockies care to talk to "you"? Why would he care that YOU praise him? Furthermore... homosapiens have been around for 125,000 years or so. Religions we have are pretty much traceable to within the last 5-6 thousand years. Which God was in charge during the interim?

If you tell someone something enough times and reinforce it strong enough...they'll believe you. (this is how parents teach offspring). (Billy, don't run in the house.). Make examples of how it's true to back up your claims and it's even more powerful. (See Billy, you ran in the house and skinned your knee - see how that hurts? I told you so.) Then, throw in fear in the mix...scare everyone into thinking that they'll be set on fire for ETERNITY if they don't live a certain way and eventually they'll start to be a little worried. (Billy - if you run in the house again I'm gonna give you a spanking). It's only natural, that's how humans work unfortunately. The church wanted to keep the world in the dark ages and called science, logic, and understanding "EVIL" and the "Devil's work"...the Illuminati *wanted* us to expand our knowledge and understanding so we could achieve greater things. That's just an example of how church has held us back. What could the world be, what could WE as humans achieve if we could set aside religious and cultural differences? I'm sure we could do WAY better than we ever imagined possible. Can you imagine if Intelligent people starting going door to door explaining why they feel there is no god, that would create a shit storm, yet Christians do it all the time. I'm not saying intelligent people don't believe in God, I'm just saying if people who knew how to articulate themselves did this it would be "interesting."

[BABY J]

Oh yeah ... and back to the creationist topic.

If you ask a believer "is the universe built for life?" his answer will be a resounding YES. "It's too perfect here to be an accident." I find that interesting and pretty rediculous.

Well I say that life as we know it exists because of the universe it evolved in. If the universe were slightly different, life as we would know it would be slightly different. If the universe were radically different, life as we would know it would be radically different.

Creationists like to tell us that God put the Earth the perfect distance from the sun. Any closer and we would fry, and further and we would freeze. Well I would remind those people that, were we closer the sun, we would be more tolerant of the heat... further and we would be more tolerant of the cold.

The universe has been here much longer than humanity... any1 who has passed 4th grade will agree. It seems foolish to logically reason that the needs of the latter was responsible for the specifications of the former. But who asked me - I'm just your local neighborhood Baby J. To each his own.

[Jaimecbr900]

(1st off J the bible is not unchanged for the last 2k plus years sir. That's false.)

The bible is written by MEN as well. Just as a science book Jaime. "Streets of gold". Listen to that for a second. A "God" capable of creating all the we see and know would give 2 SHITS about "gold". But you know who DOES cherish gold? WE (men) do. What a coinkydink. A "God" capable of creating the sun - the moon - wind - black holes - why would the "best" he have to offer us be streets of "gold?" LOL. That's laughable. I refuse to believe in the tall tales of religious texts, do I find them inspirational to a person that would be enduring something?? Sure. But either way most times it is outdated and non-applicable. Why would a God capable of creating the Rockies care to talk to "you"? Why would he care that YOU praise him? Furthermore... homosapiens have been around for 125,000 years or so. Religions we have are pretty much traceable to within the last 5-6 thousand years. Which God was in charge during the interim?

If you tell someone something enough times and reinforce it strong enough...they'll believe you. Make examples of how it's true to back up your claims and it's even more powerful. Then, throw in fear in the mix...scare everyone into thinking that they'll be set on fire for ETERNITY if they don't live a certain way and eventually they'll start to be a little worried. It's only natural, that's how humans work unfortunately. The church wanted to keep the world in the dark ages and called science, logic, and understanding "EVIL" and the "Devil's work"...the Illuminati *wanted* us to expand our knowledge and understanding so we could achieve greater things. That's just an example of how church has held us back. What could the world be, what could WE as humans achieve if we could set aside religious and cultural differences? I'm sure we could do WAY better than we ever imagined possible. Can you imagine if Intelligent people starting going door to door explaining why they feel there is no god, that would create a shit storm, yet Christians so it all the time. I'm not saying intelligent people don't believe in God, I'm just saying if people who knew how to articulate themselves did this it would be "interesting."

I did say that it was BASICALLY un-changed. :goodjob:

You guys want to take every single word of the Bible in it's CURRENT literal sense. Why? Did they know that Platinum was more valuable than Gold back then? Does a "serpent" mean a Boa Constrictor or a Rattler in the Bible? Does it matter? My point is that you are twisting the words in the Bible to fit your ideas just as much as any Bible thumper does. No different. That is exactly what I was saying in my clarification post. You guys bash people for believing what they can't see, yet YOU believe in many things that you can't see either.....so what is the difference?

You all want to glob every church, person, and gathering place in the same context. Ok, so does that mean that if there is Rice parked next to your car that YOUR car is rice? Why not? According to you guys, if you believe in God then you're a "bible thumper" and money stealing thief being bamboozled by the fear monger priest who stands at the altar acting like God himself......right? :thinking: You guys think that EVERY organized religion is nothing more than mindless fools that follow aimlessly and never question anything. You guys think that EVERY church is a waste of time because you can pray and be a good person all by yourself w/o having to go to one. Right? What happens when you have doubts? What happens when you have a question? WHO do you ask? A Scientist who says that the Earth is flat, or someone who has similar core beliefs as you?

[bdydrpdmazda]

I did say that it was BASICALLY un-changed. :goodjob:

You guys want to take every single word of the Bible in it's CURRENT literal sense. Why? Did they know that Platinum was more valuable than Gold back then? Does a "serpent" mean a Boa Constrictor or a Rattler in the Bible? Does it matter? My point is that you are twisting the words in the Bible to fit your ideas just as much as any Bible thumper does. No different. That is exactly what I was saying in my clarification post. You guys bash people for believing what they can't see, yet YOU believe in many things that you can't see either.....so what is the difference?

You all want to glob every church, person, and gathering place in the same context. Ok, so does that mean that if there is Rice parked next to your car that YOUR car is rice? Why not? According to you guys, if you believe in God then you're a "bible thumper" and money stealing thief being bamboozled by the fear monger priest who stands at the altar acting like God himself......right? :thinking: You guys think that EVERY organized religion is nothing more than mindless fools that follow aimlessly and never question anything. You guys think that EVERY church is a waste of time because you can pray and be a good person all by yourself w/o having to go to one. Right? What happens when you have doubts? What happens when you have a question? WHO do you ask? A Scientist who says that the Earth is flat, or someone who has similar core beliefs as you?

I dont think Ive ever read a better post in the religion section...

I always stay out of this section because it is always full of so much hate but you sir have hit the nail right on the head, I would give you reps but it would be a waste...

[BABY J]

You all want to glob every church, person, and gathering place in the same context. Ok, so does that mean that if there is Rice parked next to your car that YOUR car is rice? Why not? According to you guys, if you believe in God then you're a "bible thumper" and money stealing thief being bamboozled by the fear monger priest who stands at the altar acting like God himself......right? :thinking: You guys think that EVERY organized religion is nothing more than mindless fools that follow aimlessly and never question anything. You guys think that EVERY church is a waste of time because you can pray and be a good person all by yourself w/o having to go to one. Right? What happens when you have doubts? What happens when you have a question? WHO do you ask? A Scientist who says that the Earth is flat, or someone who has similar core beliefs as you?

I find some1 who has went through it - some1 I can see and taste and touch. I do not resport to an invisible made-up entity.

I pose this question for you. Name 1 thing that God has PERSONALLY done for you in the last year. Your answer should be something that without the shadow of a doubt He did. Take your time with this one and choose your answer wisely.

[Jaimecbr900]

Oh yeah ... and back to the creationist topic.

If you ask a believer "is the universe built for life?" his answer will be a resounding YES. "It's too perfect here to be an accident." I find that interesting and pretty rediculous.

Well I say that life as we know it exists because of the universe it evolved in. If the universe were slightly different, life as we would know it would be slightly different. If the universe were radically different, life as we would know it would be radically different.

Creationists like to tell us that God put the Earth the perfect distance from the sun. Any closer and we would fry, and further and we would freeze. Well I would remind those people that, were we closer the sun, we would be more tolerant of the heat... further and we would be more tolerant of the cold.

The universe has been here much longer than humanity... any1 who has passed 4th grade will agree. It seems foolish to logically reason that the needs of the latter was responsible for the specifications of the former. But who asked me - I'm just your local neighborhood Baby J. To each his own.

See, this is what I'm talking about right here.

How come you want to question ONE idea of why we are here, yet don't use logic to see that it is ONE very possible explaination of why we in fact are here?

So in other words, you bash Creationists because they have a cooky far out idea that we are on Earth for a reason. Right? Then why don't you show me how many people are living and thriving in Mercury? Mars? Pluto? Jupiter? Saturn? We have satellites and telescopes that see these planets every day, 365 days a year, FOR DECADES now......not a single damn ameba has been found on any of those planets.....how come? If the Universe "adapts", how come it hasn't in the last 15,000 yrs? Is it on a break? Resting? Then WHY is their idea that there is a purpose to us being and thriving in the only planet even remotely equiped for human life in this side of the galaxy so crrrraaaaazzzyy????

Again, you guys are being just as hypocritical as you claim bible thumpers to be. You neglect to "see" what you don't want to "see".

Don't mistake me for bashing you or your beliefs. You believe what you want. I'm just saying that it's ironic that you guys want to use certain logics to substantiate your core beliefs which ironically are very similar to logics used by the opposing side. What makes your's right and their's wrong?

[BABY J]

I did say that it was BASICALLY un-changed. :goodjob:

You guys want to take every single word of the Bible in it's CURRENT literal sense. Why? Did they know that Platinum was more valuable than Gold back then? Does a "serpent" mean a Boa Constrictor or a Rattler in the Bible? Does it matter? My point is that you are twisting the words in the Bible to fit your ideas just as much as any Bible thumper does. No different. That is exactly what I was saying in my clarification post. You guys bash people for believing what they can't see, yet YOU believe in many things that you can't see either.....so what is the difference?



Truly a bible written by men who were inspired DIRECTLY by God would have gotten it right - right? I mean this IS THE document that you wage your entire existence on... was written, compiled (w/ certain "acceptable" omissions of course - LOL), edited (lol) by men OF GOD. Why should I not be able to take it literally?? Why are books in the bible written by authors who had other books by the same author NOT included? OH - sometimes the author was inspired by God and sometimes he wasn't. I find that odd since this is INDEED the "instructions" that were left here for believers to live eat and die by?

Are you suggesting that God should provide streets of platinum in heaven in the new revisions of the bible so it holds the same level of importance in the future?

[bodhi]

My point is that you are twisting the words in the Bible to fit your ideas just as much as any Bible thumper does. No different. That is exactly what I was saying in my clarification post. You guys bash people for believing what they can't see, yet YOU believe in many things that you can't see either.....so what is the difference?


actually, no one does any twisting when referring to the bible because there is no need. It contradicts itself in many ways - and, although it has some good to it the truth is that it's still a fictional book created by men who saw potential in it, and possible power to control the human mind

also, what is the difference between believing in a magical being, who sees everything, hears everything, is all powerful and all knowing, and ppl who go to college to create their careers? To make a living off discovering new planets, life, ppl who study the ecosystem, ppl that observe micro organisms, ppl with an open mind who are capable of thinking for a higher purpose -- not just relying on a book to guide them through life and to waste their time praying to someone who'll never respond to your prayers...

is well, a BIG difference...

[Jaimecbr900]

I find some1 who has went through it - some1 I can see and taste and touch. I do not resport to an invisible made-up entity.

Name me one single person that YOU know that has DIED and can come back to tell you where you'll go when you do. :goodjob:



I pose this question for you. Name 1 thing that God has PERSONALLY done for you in the last year. Your answer should be something that without the shadow of a doubt He did. Take your time with this one and choose your answer wisely.

The problem with your question is that it is a loaded one. ;)

It does not take into consideration that I have FAITH in something that YOU don't. So I can answer it by saying that God has placed certain tests in front of me this past year to help me see certain things more clearly, i.e. priorities.....but you would likely say that is not tangible enough for you. Again, it's a loaded question because no matter what response I give you one can always come back to dispute it by saying it's NOT tangible enough for YOU. Kinda like sticking your tongue out in the playground when someone did something to you that you didn't like.....:tongue1: Doesn't really do much, right?

No matter what I say IF you are looking for something tactile then religion is not the question. Faith is. Until you can pull out the dictionary and see for yourself that NO WHERE in the definition of the word does the word "tangible" appear.....we are comparing apples to battleships. It aint gonna work. EVER. You have to understand and respect that some people, like you, need something to touch before they believe something. Others don't.

So if a guy gets hit by a car, is pronounced dead, but somehow starts breathing again and says he saw pearly gates and streets of Gold......would that be enough for you? Why not? See how it would never end no matter what? Guess why? ;)

[Jaimecbr900]

Are you suggesting that God should provide streets of platinum in heaven in the new revisions of the bible so it holds the same level of importance in the future?

No, but you are when you argued that if God was such a supreme being why was his streets made of Gold only.....:goodjob: Isn't that what you said and implied? :thinking:

[BABY J]

So in other words, you bash Creationists because they have a cooky far out idea that we are on Earth for a reason. Right? Then why don't you show me how many people are living and thriving in Mercury? Mars? Pluto? Jupiter? Saturn? We have satellites and telescopes that see these planets every day, 365 days a year, FOR DECADES now......not a single damn ameba has been found on any of those planets.....how come? If the Universe "adapts", how come it hasn't in the last 15,000 yrs? Is it on a break? Resting? Then WHY is their idea that there is a purpose to us being and thriving in the only planet even remotely equiped for human life in this side of the galaxy so crrrraaaaazzzyy????

Again, you guys are being just as hypocritical as you claim bible thumpers to be. You neglect to "see" what you don't want to "see".



Just cause we (Humans) haven't found other planets "with what we call life", doesn't mean that it isn't out there. Now what happens in the future if we find that other race or species and they know only of science evolution and not of religion? Are we (as a world that mostly a religion-based society) going to force our views and beliefs on them (as we did with indians and so on)? What if this world doesn't know of this "higher power" - would that mean that God doesn't exist or would the religious leaders just say that these people are in denial?

Where you fail is that you haven't looked at science as ever-evolving. 100 years ago no one could tell you about brain patterns, 50 years ago no one could map DNA, 20 years ago 80G's in a pocket sized device was impossible. Science is catching up - your "flat Earth/round Earth" post proves this. Science has the edge b/c we haven't reached the absolute - we question it and bang on it and question and bang on it - much like a blacksmith making a sword. It's constantly being sharpened... whereas religion has arrived ALREADY (which is funny considering how young we are as a people) at the ABSOLUTE. THAT IS A SLICK ASS SLOPE TO BE ON.

Who knows in 10 years science may be able to provide solid proof there is no God... or the other way around... wouldn't that be cool? What would you do at that time J?? I think it'd be kool either way... but that'd fuck up the entire "story" for religion wouldn't it... if an explorer (satellite) "finds hell?" - LOL. EVERY person born from that moment on would believe - don't just laugh at that thought - THINK ABOUT IT. Then the entire "you're just being tested so you make the right choice to follow God" thing goes out of the window huh? But I have the feeling that science will find the opposite - that's just my honest opinion.

Either way - I will still continue to reach inside myself and accept my failures as "I didnt try hard enough or wasn't smart enough" rather than think "it wasn't in God's will." I will continue to treat people right the 1st time around rather than think "God will forgive me later." I will continue to have business of my own so I don't have time to go door to door minding every1 else's w/ a few well placed pamphlets. I will continue to enjoy THIS life as the best life that I will likely ever have which forces me to be kind, generous and nice TODAY. A weekend with my daughter - a cruise through the twisties in Blue Ridge - rocking on my front porch - playing my piano at 3:30 in the morning... a few beers w/ a few people that I call friends - this IS my heaven. I don't feel the need to ask the invisible for more. ;)

To each his own - and as usual it's always a pleasure chatting with you Jaime.:cheers: RESPECT!

[bodhi]

So if a guy gets hit by a car, is pronounced dead, but somehow starts breathing again and says he saw pearly gates and streets of Gold......would that be enough for you? Why not? See how it would never end no matter what? Guess why? ;)


This happens everyday! nothing out of the ordinary (unless of course, it's someone you know - then, it'll seem like a miracle, but in reality it's far from it)
i posted a thing about what happens when someone passes away and how they see a white tunnel or something very similar is just the brain shutting down - kinda like an old television. The heat returns back to the center thus giving it the tunnel illusion...

something way more spectacular has to occur for ppl to believe there is a place that the dead go... and that would require like I said, some spectacular.

[Jaimecbr900]

actually, no one does any twisting when referring to the bible because there is no need. It contradicts itself in many ways - and, although it has some good to it the truth is that it's still a fictional book created by men who saw potential in it, and possible power to control the human mind

Really? Show me where Paul, Abraham, and John made millions off it.....:rolleyes:

You never answered my scenario. Which "serpent" are they referring to in the Bible when it literally tells you that "you should take up serpents"? Is it a Boa or a Rattler? Both are "serpents", right? Is it too much for your mind to phathom that maybe they didn't mean a literal serpent? Could anything else be a "serpent"? Think about it and let me know.

It contradicts when your mindset is convinced that it makes no sense to YOU. I can tell you that Baby J's car is Red. YOU can look it and say it's more Pink. Now, does that difference change the FACT that the car is PAINTED at all???? Well, have you ever thought about the fact that some of the things that the Bible addresses are more than just face value? Their days weren't 24 hours long and their years weren't 365 and 1/2 days then. Does that mean that when they say "a day" or "a year" that it CHANGES what may have happened just because it doesn't match exactly to what we know today to be a "day" or a "year"????


also, what is the difference between believing in a magical being, who sees everything, hears everything, is all powerful and all knowing, and ppl who go to college to create their careers? To make a living off discovering new planets, life, ppl who study the ecosystem, ppl that observe micro organisms, ppl with an open mind who are capable of thinking for a higher purpose -- not just relying on a book to guide them through life and to waste their time praying to someone who'll never respond to your prayers...

is well, a BIG difference...

Once again, young Padowan, I truly believe that some of my prayers have indeed been answered. You clearly do not. That is what makes me a believer and you not. Has it ever occurred to you that God did answer your prayer(s) and maybe A: you weren't listening, or B: you didn't like the answer????

I have just given you "answers" to your questions, right? YOU may not like or agree with my "answers", right? Does that mean that I didn't "answer" them????? Again, apply that to your question to me. Since you are looking for an answer with your head in the sand doesn't mean that the answer wasn't given to you above the sand. This is an analogy, not a diss. :goodjob:

[bodhi]

amazing post, babyj

[BABY J]

So if a guy gets hit by a car, is pronounced dead, but somehow starts breathing again and says he saw pearly gates and streets of Gold......would that be enough for you? Why not? See how it would never end no matter what? Guess why? ;)

He must be a Christian. LOL. We hear of this all the time... near death experiences where people see Pearly Gates.

But I bet near death experiences for Muslims doesn't see the same thing. I bet they see naked virgins.:goodjob:

Why is this? B/c it has been burned into their brains their whole lives. Think about that for a minute.

[Jaimecbr900]

Just cause we (Humans) haven't found other planets "with what we call life", doesn't mean that it isn't out there.

Doesn't mean that it is either, right? How come w/o any evidence at all of there being anything else out there do you still hold that to be a possibility, yet Christians are crazy for doing so with their belief system? Again, you guys can't have it both ways.


Where you fail is that you haven't looked at science as ever-evolving.

This is just a fancy way of saying that Science is more often WRONG. :goodjob:


100 years ago no one could tell you about brain patterns, 50 years ago no one could map DNA, 20 years ago 80G's in a pocket sized device was impossible. Science is catching up - your "flat Earth/round Earth" post proves this. Science has the edge b/c we haven't reached the absolute - we question it and bang on it and question and bang on it - much like a blacksmith making a sword. It's constantly being sharpened... whereas religion has arrived ALREADY (which is funny considering how young we are as a people) at the ABSOLUTE. THAT IS A SLICK ASS SLOPE TO BE ON.

No, Science has the EXCUSE that it will NEVER reach an absolute because it's "ever evolving".....which we know to be a fancy word phrase for WRONG.......:D So it's impossible to ever be "wrong" when you are always correcting yourself.....right??? ;)




To each his own - and as usual it's always a pleasure chatting with you Jaime.:cheers: RESPECT!

:goodjob:

[Jaimecbr900]

I have to go get dog food now. Be back later folks. Carry on.

[BABY J]

^^ Remember that science is wrong when you wake up to your alarm clock, get dressed, brush your teeth (after Listerine and floss). Get in your car, drive into work w/ all the flashers, brakes and gadgets working, make it to work on time (bc ur speedo lets you know how fast you're going and all) - put in a day of work at your computer, get paid electronically w/out having to "do" anything specific to ensure that happens - swipe your card in the gas pump at BP - order pizza online, get home - and post another reply to this "thread". LOL. Science --- yeah, definitely "wrong". Praise Jesus for allowing all of that.

Say what you will about science - everyday they get better - get closer - get more accurate. 2+2 is 4 everywhere. But "God" means something different in every household in the world - LOL. Yeah... my bet is on science.;)

[bodhi]

Jaime, sadly I must depart - for I have a few things to take care of on this wonderful, and glorious day...

let me just say that you do make sense on a lot of things, but on others, you're simply just putting your faith on & hoping that you are right.
You're a lot more logical than geoff and you should probably teach him a thing or two so he doesn't end up looking like a kid in 4th grade trying to explain to his science teacher about the difference between a meteorite and an asteroid.

and with that... I say...

Good day to all, and to all a good night (except the terrorists who are committing suicide in the name of "their" god) :wink... wink....

[geoff]

jaime- kudos to you bro.

to me science is what we use to try and fathom God. i believe in science, there are just too many holes. and please tell me specific places where the bible contradicts itself, now MEN do contradict themselves and use different interpretations of the bible to preach contradicting messages. the bible itself does NOT contradict itself. and to your statement about what God men believed hundreds of thousands of years ago, my friend mankind has been ever learning and didnt always have a written system or whatnot. they still believed the same God back then, just couldnt write about it. and this Christian God has been around and written about since the first known civilized nation arose. and im curious to how the bible was written by men to try and control? they didnt use words they used death. if they didnt like what you were doing you were put to death. and here is a serious question, if in 10 years science actually came to a definite conclusion(lol) and proved that God is real and created everything, would that even matter to you?

[joecoolfreak]

Here is my question to the "believers":

Now, in this discussion, we have identified that there are two types of people: Believers and Non-Believers. I think it's fairly safe to assume what separates the two: Faith. Where I really start to get fuzzy, is once you make that GIANT leap of faith, how do you end up where you are? You have now decided to believe in something that there cannot ever be tangible evidence of (by the definition of faith), yet each of you "believers" chooses a particular belief.

Most of the "believers" here have faith in God, but the real question is which God? And why that god? Why only one God? Did the New Testament sound better than the old? Did they both sound better then the Quran? Did all of that sound better than Buddhism in general?

To broaden the question, if you are going to choose to have faith in something, what decides what you choose to have faith in? Is it your upbringing? Your environment? What makes you decide that one religion got it right and all the others wrong? Have any of you(and I bet there are at least a couple) ever gone into the trouble of looking into all of the other options before deciding?

When I last checked, if you got it wrong, you are screwed? Most God's aren't very forgiving if you pick their competition? Think for a moment, would you be saying/thinking/feeling/believing the same thing you are right now, if you didn't speak English and were born in the middle of China?

[BABY J]

^^ Hmm... sounds a lot like:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36334600&postcount=88

We must be brothers - who's your mother? LOL

[joecoolfreak]

^^ Hmm... sounds a lot like:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36334600&postcount=88

We must be brothers - who's your mother? LOL

Lol...the funny thing is, I hadn't read that post, or even that topic. Hmm...

[geoff]

thats actually a very good question you pose. for my i personally searched a couple other religions, for me muslim didnt make sense because how could a loving God command His people to kill themselves and other innocents to get into heaven? now i know your gonna say the christian God has done the same thing, except, for us the punishment of sin was always death, we as people couldnt live up to His laws so God postponed our punishment to the afterlife. now i searched many polytheist religions, to me tho, if these were all powerful beings and had the ability to create some type of life than why would there need to be more than one? in that aspect then these gods would not really be gods because they dont have the power to create something without help. and then to judaism, its christianity but with further revelation of God. the reason jews dont accept Jesus is because He didnt restore the kingdom in their time frame.

[joecoolfreak]

thats actually a very good question you pose. for my i personally searched a couple other religions,

See, I told you there would be some people who had.


for me muslim didnt make sense because how could a loving God command His people to kill themselves and other innocents to get into heaven?

Ooops, maybe not. There isn't any directive for Muslims to kill themselves. There isn't any directive to kill innocents either. Maybe you need to learn how to research a bit better. If you could, maybe you could quote the Quran to back your "facts" up here.


now i know your gonna say the christian God has done the same thing, except, for us the punishment of sin was always death, we as people couldnt live up to His laws so God postponed our punishment to the afterlife.

Nope, but out of curiosity, which christian god might you be refering to? The roman catholic one, the protastant one, the mormon one? or possibly his son? I digress..


now i searched many polytheist religions, to me tho, if these were all powerful beings and had the ability to create some type of life than why would there need to be more than one? in that aspect then these gods would not really be gods because they dont have the power to create something without help.

Kinda like the trinity? You know, why would God need a son, or a spirit? Isn't he god and couldn't he just "die for your sins" and stuff without having multiple personalities?


and then to judaism, its christianity but with further revelation of God. the reason jews dont accept Jesus is because He didnt restore the kingdom in their time frame.

Um, no sir. I grew up in a Jewish environment and with a Jewish education. You need to do a lot more research on the subject before you start to look really silly. And besides, if you wanted to say it a little better, the Christianity is basically Judaism with the addition of Jesus and the whole other list of changes that came with that.

[geoff]

the trinity- here alot of people get confused, i am from an apostolic church where we believe the bible is the inspired word of God, and that there is only one God. the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not seperate but three manifestations of God. we have Jehova the Father of creation and all life, as you jews believe aswell, we have the Son Jesus, who is the fleshly incarnation of God who came to be the sacrifice for our sins, and the Spirit who is God living inside of us. even in your torah there are prophecies of the Messiah, God in flesh who would save us, and prophecy of God saying in those days He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh. some churches believe in trinity some dont. that is where religion is wrong. i dont believe religion i believe in relationship. and a true relationship with God will lead you to these truths. and as far as the jewish christian thing goes i typed it wrong. christianity is a further extension of judaism.

[geoff]

as far as the muslim thing goes, it may not be all of them but thats what you see, in general and the main populous of that religion if your not muslim then your an infadel and an enemy. in christianity we are taught to love even our enemies for what does it profit if you love only those that love you

[joecoolfreak]

the trinity- here alot of people get confused, i am from an apostolic church where we believe the bible is the inspired word of God, and that there is only one God. the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not seperate but three manifestations of God. we have Jehova the Father of creation and all life, as you jews believe aswell, we have the Son Jesus, who is the fleshly incarnation of God who came to be the sacrifice for our sins, and the Spirit who is God living inside of us. even in your torah there are prophecies of the Messiah, God in flesh who would save us, and prophecy of God saying in those days He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh. some churches believe in trinity some dont. that is where religion is wrong. i dont believe religion i believe in relationship. and a true relationship with God will lead you to these truths. and as far as the jewish christian thing goes i typed it wrong. christianity is a further extension of judaism.

Nope, absolutely no mention of any of this rubbish in the Torah. The messiah in the old Testament directly translated, means "the anointed one" and there is absolutely no reference in the slightest that is is "god in flesh" or that he does any saving. Again, I highly recommend that you do much better research or you are not ever going to be taken seriously. If you do not have facts to back up your claims, and are this wrong about your assumptions, you are only likely to do the opposite of your intentions, because not many people like following the uneducated.

[geoff]

im sorry but i was under the impression that the jewish torah and the old testament christian bible are identicle no? your Messiah is a saviour my friend He was to be the one to restore israel

[joecoolfreak]

as far as the muslim thing goes, it may not be all of them but thats what you see, in general and the main populous of that religion if your not muslim then your an infadel and an enemy. in christianity we are taught to love even our enemies for what does it profit if you love only those that love you

Again, you spread your "assumptions" based on clear missunderstanding. Are basing all of your knowledge of an entire religion based on watching fox? First of all, the word "infidel" is an English word used by Christians. It originally referred to anyone who didn't believe in Jesus. Muslims don't have enemies, or at least, the religion doesn't. Your own logic here works against you. You tell us that we shouldn't think or remember the Church's role in the crusades or religion's role in Hitler's greater plan because you say that "it's man's fault, not god's. The religion is pure" and then on the same hand, write off one of the world's most popular religions because of the actions of a very small minority from a very remote pocket of the world?

Geoff, you seriously need to do a lot more research and learning before you try and "spread" the word, because you aren't doing what you are trying to represent any justice.

[joecoolfreak]

im sorry but i was under the impression that the jewish torah and the old testament christian bible are identicle no? your Messiah is a saviour my friend He was to be the one to restore israel

You are under a very misguided impression then. If you would like, there are plenty of English Torahs running around and I think you will find about 30 lines into it exactly how much "translational difference" there might be. It isn't even the same book.

The messiah in the Torah is the king that restores the Jewish kingom and brings upon the messianic age. You are going to have a hard time convincing any Jew that Jesus was a messiah, because all of the things that were supposed to happen, didn't. That of course is all explained in the New Testament saying why everything that was written in the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore, but again, why does anyone choose to believe one over the other? Where is the reason for that decision?

[geoff]

alot of bad things have been done in some "gods" name, does that make it right no, does that mean that christianity is evil or my God is evil no, you simply asked me why i chose what religion or whatever that i chose. i have not personally read the torrah but had jewish friends that explained to me their beliefs and thats what im going off of. as far as muslims go, why is it that when a christian goes to israel and the holy land that we are only allowed in certian parts? that we cant step foot on muslim holy ground? why is it that jews arent supposed to marry non jewish people and the same for muslims? in all honesty if your not of their faith then your cast aside no? i dont believe christianity which means to be Christ like does that. i can give you scriptual reference if you want. maybe i shouldnt call myself christian as it is now a man led religion, instead of a name i will just say im a follower of Jesus. He taught me to love everyone of every religion, color, race,ect.....have people taken His word and twisted it to do evil? yes, but that does not reflect what Christ taught

[geoff]

your mistaken aswell then my friend. the new testament does not make the old testament null and void. as a jew you know the rituals and what not that are needed to forgive your sins. im sure you know also the reason that Jesus came, so the jews never believed in Jesus as being a messiah?

[BABY J]

^^ It's not Geoffs fault. The entire thing is fractured from the jump b/c it "allows" for "interpretation" by the individual. Again - MAN'S input on MAN's inspired word of "God". How "right" and concise can it be if a "God" allows individual interpretation of what was said?

* Sir - you were speeding. 56 in a 55 mph zone.
* Yes - but MY interpretation was that 55 was a suggested speed. The place (Church) where I go - we see speed as a suggestion, not as a law. This speed limit was posted here YEARS ago when cars weren't fast - things have changed now so we must change the law to fit the speeds of todays cars. LOL

WTF!!!!!!!??? :thinking:

And THAT is the problem. How can "THE UNFALABLE WORD OF GOD" be subject to Billy and Bob's interpretation. They treat is as it's ala carte - take what I want and what I like to eat and leave the rest.

It's really sad. What true GOD that you know who would allows sects of people to "decide" or "change" what they hell they say? That negates the term "God" in my opinion.

[joecoolfreak]

alot of bad things have been done in some "gods" name, does that make it right no, does that mean that christianity is evil or my God is evil no, you simply asked me why i chose what religion or whatever that i chose. i have not personally read the torrah but had jewish friends that explained to me their beliefs and thats what im going off of. as far as muslims go, why is it that when a christian goes to israel and the holy land that we are only allowed in certian parts? that we cant step foot on muslim holy ground? why is it that jews arent supposed to marry non jewish people and the same for muslims? in all honesty if your not of their faith then your cast aside no? i dont believe christianity which means to be Christ like does that. i can give you scriptual reference if you want. maybe i shouldnt call myself christian as it is now a man led religion, instead of a name i will just say im a follower of Jesus. He taught me to love everyone of every religion, color, race,ect.....have people taken His word and twisted it to do evil? yes, but that does not reflect what Christ taught

So what you really mean is that you never really did any research about any of the other religions. You just kinda go off what people you know tell you or what you have heard. You don't even really follow any organized religion because they are all starting to get it wrong too and instead you learned from Jesus himself and therefore you are just kinda winging as things progress and making them up as you go?

Keep in mind that Jesus didn't have any writings...
All of the scriptures you choose to believe in were written by that "man led religion" and therefore subject to any of the popular beliefs at the time...

Again...not sure if you are doing yourself any justice here ;-)

[joecoolfreak]

your mistaken aswell then my friend. the new testament does not make the old testament null and void. as a jew you know the rituals and what not that are needed to forgive your sins. im sure you know also the reason that Jesus came, so the jews never believed in Jesus as being a messiah?

Absolutely not, Never, 100% sure

If you ask any random Jew, did Jesus even live?
The answer will almost certainly be: Who cares? even if he did, he was just a normal guy. Not only do the jews not believe in Jesus, they don't even care if he existed.

[geoff]

i would rather take this to pms. im not trying to bash your beliefs bro and i dont want others to get me wrong.

[geoff]

you know what i would love to get some more insight on your beliefs. hit me up

[EJ25RUN]

you know what i would love to get some more insight on your beliefs. hit me up

How in the hell are you trying to learn religion on a car forum? Are you not capable of doing it in a classroom? Most colleges offer an unbiased class on religeon but you are way too closed minded to survive such an idea.

Seriously, you know nothing about your own faith and are also the reason many non Christians don't like Christians. You base ideas off of whatever anybody says.



Did you know Jews invented the moon?

I said it and I'm Jewish so it must be true right? :rolleyes:

[geoff]

i know nothing about my own faith and go off of what others say? right. apparently you have not read into anything i said. i asked for more insight on the jewish religion because i apparently dont know enough about it or i was wrong about it. simple, when it comes to christianity i know about my faith, you give me one example where i am wrong about my own beliefs and faith.

[geoff]

and by the way, am i not in a religion section on the car forum? i believe this forum also talks about politics, entertainment, ect....

[EJ25RUN]

i know nothing about my own faith and go off of what others say? right. apparently you have not read into anything i said. i asked for more insight on the jewish religion because i apparently dont know enough about it or i was wrong about it. simple, when it comes to christianity i know about my faith, you give me one example where i am wrong about my own beliefs and faith.

I got a better idea. Find a place to learn other cultures and religions without a Christian eye. No one here is gonna waste the day to teach you something. How about you realize science is real and a tool we have to improve ourselves.

Some of us don't need religion and we also don't need you telling us what you think about that? OK?

[Jello!]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

i grew up being an orthodox catholic pretty much. mainly my mom. i attended sunday school every sunday and went to church every saturday and sometimes fridays. i have choosen to pic to have no "God" per say. my belief is that our "higher power" is the souls of everybody who has died, is living, and is going to live one day.

My mum told me that the bible is full of fabricated storys meant to elaborate a point to help better understanding the teaching/lessons of the testaments and so forth, i guess. I dont believe god is one person and can do things because theres no proof.

religion was built to fulfill the humans needs for discipline and a higher power. i learned about it in psychology class. <<-- well not exactly that, but how we need to believe and conform and obey.

sorry if someone said something similar to this. i didn't want to read the thread before saying this. and sorry if i offended anybody.

[geoff]

ej your right you dont need me telling you about my God or my religion or my beliefs, so why are you still posting on my threads, topics, posts, ect....better off yet why are you even in the religion section? and you yet again failed to answere my question, i asked you to point out where i knew nothing or was wrong about my own faith and beliefs. i have my beliefs and am sharing them, if someone doesnt like it they dont have to listen, but just so you know there are a few on here that have actuall interest in this subject and would care to learn and know more. God bless you

[EJ25RUN]

ej your right you don't need me telling you about my God or my religion or my beliefs, so why are you still posting on my threads, topics, posts, ect....better off yet why are you even in the religion section? and you yet again failed to answere my question, i asked you to point out where i knew nothing or was wrong about my own faith and beliefs. i have my beliefs and am sharing them, if someone doesnt like it they dont have to listen, but just so you know there are a few on here that have actual interest in this subject and would care to learn and know more. God bless you

Posting in these threads to put you in your place.

What you're wrong about is how many times Christians have used religion as a weapon throughout history. How many times they've killed others when they've refused to convert. That's a historic fact. No "magicial voodoo" science as you call it.

Many Christians are no better than extremist Muslims. You're faith isn't perfect and nor is any other. Stop trying to think you're the golden people.

I have nothing against people learning religion. It's when YOU blatantly cross the line and call out others for shit that's a stereotype when what you're representing is no better.

Religion talk should go across in learning values. Not listing shit about other faiths that your idiot friends told you about.

God blesses me everyday. That's why i can think for myself.

I guess math is voodoo to you as well. lol

[geoff]

you obviously have some pent up anger bro. i have said it many many times, christians are no exception to it, many evil things have been done in some gods name or what not. that doesnt mean its the entire religions views. and that also doesnt mean that my God is evil or condones these deeds. men are evil by nature and cruel and selfish.

[Jaimecbr900]

^^ Remember that science is wrong when you wake up to your alarm clock, get dressed, brush your teeth (after Listerine and floss). Get in your car, drive into work w/ all the flashers, brakes and gadgets working, make it to work on time (bc ur speedo lets you know how fast you're going and all) - put in a day of work at your computer, get paid electronically w/out having to "do" anything specific to ensure that happens - swipe your card in the gas pump at BP - order pizza online, get home - and post another reply to this "thread". LOL. Science --- yeah, definitely "wrong". Praise Jesus for allowing all of that.

Flip that coin too Baby J.

Not all alarm clocks show the same time nor more importantly the EXACT time, do they? Even the Atomic Clock has to be "adjusted".....yes, it's every thousand years, but it DOES have to be adjusted. Right or wrong? So MY alarm clock says 9:10 pm right now. What does yours say? Which is right and which is wrong? Most likely both are wrong technically. That's Science at it's core. It too is part perception, part experimentation, and finally part FAITH. Yes, FAITH because at the time it's being preached to us in school(s) we whole heartedly BELIEVE it.

Back in 1987, yes wayyyyyy before some of you were even thought of, when I received my HS diploma with that nifty college prep seal Pluto was a planet. We all were taught that. We all believed that. What are they teaching now? The Periodic Table had barely 100 elements. How many does it have now? Did those elements "evolve" or were they there all along and we were just IGNORANT about it? That, my friend, is Science. The ever "evolving", i.e. changing it's mind about what is and isn't, mantra that some of you hold as gospel....no pun intended. I'll take cue from an old racer T-shirt and say.....Science is nice, but I'd rather be Saved instead. ;)

Think about it. Even IF I'm dead wrong and there is no God as you guys say......what am I hurting or losing for believing otherwise since nothing is going to happen to me when I die besides just laying down and closing my eyes.......right? ;) BUT what am I risking IF I'm right????? ;)


Say what you will about science - everyday they get better - get closer - get more accurate. 2+2 is 4 everywhere. But "God" means something different in every household in the world - LOL. Yeah... my bet is on science.;)

Unknowningly I have addressed this very thing right above. :goodjob:

[EJ25RUN]

you obviously have some pent up anger bro. i have said it many many times, christians are no exception to it, many evil things have been done in some gods name or what not. that doesnt mean its the entire religions views. and that also doesnt mean that my God is evil or condones these deeds. men are evil by nature and cruel and selfish.

In person im a really nice guy actually. No anger for me. I use sense and reason too much to need it.

Don't take anything i say too personal. Remember, I'm just another guy on an internet forum you like to argue with because my opinions mean something to you for whatever reason.

[ahabion]

actually, no one does any twisting when referring to the bible because there is no need. It contradicts itself in many ways - and, although it has some good to it the truth is that it's still a fictional book created by men who saw potential in it, and possible power to control the human mind

also, what is the difference between believing in a magical being, who sees everything, hears everything, is all powerful and all knowing, and ppl who go to college to create their careers? To make a living off discovering new planets, life, ppl who study the ecosystem, ppl that observe micro organisms, ppl with an open mind who are capable of thinking for a higher purpose -- not just relying on a book to guide them through life and to waste their time praying to someone who'll never respond to your prayers...

is well, a BIG difference...

I would actually interject that the gap is actually one in the same. In fact, would say that there are many who do both day in and day out and still believe both books: the Bible and a Biology textbook. Why? Because you can be both and still be "open minded who are capable of thinking for a higher purpose" as you so eloquently put it. Don't confuse what you think would be two polar opposites when in fact, they are one and the same. (the analogy of a football player being a successful athlete but cannot be a smart, straight A student... a single person is capable of being both, irregardless of the "accepted" stereotype)

[ahabion]

Just cause we (Humans) haven't found other planets "with what we call life", doesn't mean that it isn't out there. Now what happens in the future if we find that other race or species and they know only of science evolution and not of religion? Are we (as a world that mostly a religion-based society) going to force our views and beliefs on them (as we did with indians and so on)? What if this world doesn't know of this "higher power" - would that mean that God doesn't exist or would the religious leaders just say that these people are in denial?

Hrm... I was actually talking about this with a few friends but let me throw a curve ball your direction. What if (big what if) aliens came to Earth and they believed in God and actually had a Bible? How would that throw off evolutionist theory?

[ahabion]

i grew up being an orthodox catholic pretty much. mainly my mom. i attended sunday school every sunday and went to church every saturday and sometimes fridays. i have choosen to pic to have no "God" per say. my belief is that our "higher power" is the souls of everybody who has died, is living, and is going to live one day.

My mum told me that the bible is full of fabricated storys meant to elaborate a point to help better understanding the teaching/lessons of the testaments and so forth, i guess. I dont believe god is one person and can do things because theres no proof.

religion was built to fulfill the humans needs for discipline and a higher power. i learned about it in psychology class. <<-- well not exactly that, but how we need to believe and conform and obey.

sorry if someone said something similar to this. i didn't want to read the thread before saying this. and sorry if i offended anybody.

Shame on "mum" forcing this stuff down your throat while you're little and shame on your Psychology professor for propagating these thoughts and illusions in your head. I mean... really... you should have a say in your life instead of it being forced down to you like that... that darn religious theor... ugh... um... You should have a choice in how you live instead of um... well.. you know... you should have a choice... to... you know... um... to choose to... live... (sarcasm)

All kidding aside, you choose how you live your life. Be it by a book, a Bible, or by someone else's creed or beliefs. Your indecision is already a decision made by you. In other words, you can live with indecision about what you want to be when you grow up... and you can live with that for a year but throughout that year, you would have decided an ENTIRE year of decisions... You choose how you live, what you live by, and what ethical and moral compass you wish to live in.

[geoff]

everybodys opinions mean something to me bro cuz your my brother in Christ. you may not believe in Him but He believes in you bro. i care about every single person and i try to live my life according to the bible and whether you accept it or believe it or not my faith teaches me that im not to keep it to myself but to tell others of Jesus.

[StreetHazard]

everybodys opinions mean something to me bro cuz your my brother in Christ. you may not believe in Him but He believes in you bro. i care about every single person and i try to live my life according to the bible and whether you accept it or believe it or not my faith teaches me that im not to keep it to myself but to tell others of Jesus.

So you consider yourself a disciple of Jesus Christ do you? Lets see...

First of all 'We know that we have come to know Jesus if we obey his commands' John 2: 3-4. So what are the commands of Jesus?

1. Love your enemies:

'But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.'
Luke 6: 27-28.

Do you love your enemies? probably not, If you troll groups because their opinions differ from yours.

2. Give away everything you own:

'If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give them to the poor'
Matthew 19: 21-24

'Any who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple'
Luke 14:33

Do you claim ownership over anything? Probably, and rightly so, if you didn't have a house to call your own you would die of exposure.

3. Hate your family:

'If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes even his own life - he cannot be my disciple'
Luke 14: 26-33

You probably don't hate your family, and rightly so. Why should someone who expects you to love your enemies want you to hate your family? And why do the
10 commandments ask that you 'honour thy father and mother?'

4. Disembowl yourself for your sins:

'...Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery. Your right eyes causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. Better that you lose one part of your body than for all your body to burn in hell'
Matthew 5: 27-30

Looked at anyone lustfully and blinded yourself in disgust at your own sin lately?

5. Drink poison and perform healing miracles:

'these signs will accompany those who believe... when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all, they will place their hands on sick people and they will get well'
Mark 16: 17-18

Will you do either of these things to prove your faith?

If you haven't ignored this post and are open-minded enough to have read everything, you have hopefully realized that you are not a true christian as Jesus intended, and that his arguments are self contradictory and absurd. That is called thinking rationally, and thinking rationally is the basis of Atheism.

[geoff]

1. love your enemies, you have this part right. i may not agree with my enemies or those who oppose my views but i respect all and care for everyones well being.

2. your use of scripture here is plainly wrong. matthew 19:21-24 is the story of the rich young ruler who followed the commandments but valued his possesions more than anything. Jesus asked him to let go of all his vain earthly possesions because He knew the man valued them more than anything. Jesus wants true service, he wants us not to place more value on anything earthly because they pass away but our relationship with Him will yeild everlasting life.

3. once again you do as so many others and only pick and choose of the scriptures like a buffet line. He wants us to value God more than any other relationship. to God the order of importance goes as so, God, family, church, friends. we need to place our highest priority on our salvation.

4. Jesus did not expect us to take this literally nor was it understood at so. He was explaining the severity of the consequences of sin and said that instead of losing your soul you would be better off to cut off the parts that make you sin. and my friend i am a sinner, and my sin does disgust me.

5. this talks about the power of the Spirit of God inside of us, the Holy Spirit. Jesus meant that His Spirit will be protection for you and that through His power you shall be able to heal the sick in His name. and i have personally seen healings and miracles of such after someone was prayed for and anointed. my family has had a few of these happen.

my friend i fully read this post and responded to it. you have done what countless others, including christians themselves have done and only used a scripture or two to try and prove a point without even reading or understanding the entire passage. you twist these scriptures to your own ideas and theories because you lack faith in the Word of God. you have ears but do not hear and eyes but do not see because your heart is hardened. you will never be able to comprehend the revelation of God or understand what His Word says because you try to see it through mortal eyes. you can never comprehend something that you dont know, you cant think of God in your human boxed in mentality because we as people have restrictions and limitations and our own ideas of what logic is, God is above our comprehension and logic and we will never be able to completely understand the mysteries of God. i sin daily and fall short of what Jesus calls me to be but im not perfect and the bible says i never will be, only through the blood of Christ can i be made perfect and i have accepted that in my life. i am made perfect in Gods' eyes through my acceptance of His sacrifice on the cross. Jesus had no arguements nor were His words contradictory, like i said before, someone without knowledge of God and no faith can never understand His word. " ever learning, and never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth" 2 timothy 3:7.

your ideas of rational thinking have been established by other men of knowledge that have looked for truth and are ever changing their ideals. my knowledge of truth comes from my God and will never change. atheism is the result of rebelious men that didnt want to submit to a higher power.

[RaptorJesus]

Fuck organized religion




That is all.

[Jaimecbr900]

Fuck organized religion




That is all.

Hmmm, you guys are right.....it's ONLY "Christians" that are closed minded.....:rolleyes:

If you're not going to add anything besides this, please stay out of this thread. It's stayed civil so far, and I'm going to make sure it stays that way.

[geoff]

its very easy for things to get that way jaime.

[Lankhoss]

What a rude awakening it was when I realized that God didn't exist (at least not the Christian one I have been taught about).

But I'll tell you this....realizing the truth sure cleared up a lot of confusion I had when I was a "Christian."

[geoff]

im sorry to hear you lost your faith bro. i will be praying for you man