Think Move Shoot Course - DEC 5

[Danny]

Just a heads up, this looks pretty interesting if you ask me....
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Several people have asked for a course that incorporates drills that can't be done on the typical square range. I have been preparing a class for several months that meets these requirements. Our new range in Woodbury is set up so we can shoot 270 degrees. I will run a class to include moving and shooting in the 360 degree environment. It will include moving, reaction, stationary and no shoot targets. More time moving than standing still. This being said you should have the shooting basics down fairly well before class. We will only spend a short time on drawing, reloads and malfunctions before we start moving and adding stress to the drills. The class will be Saturday Dec 5th from 1-10pm. The cost will be $100 if paid before Dec 1st $125 after. Bring your flashlights we will shoot well into dark so you can practice your low light skills.

This course is not approved buy the NRA. :D

"Think Move Shoot"

This class is designed as an introduction to the use of a pistol for self-defense. This is not a class for beginners, you should know how to shoot, how to load and unload your pistol. Shooting distance will be from 1-10yards. This is a 8 hour class. Topics covered are safety, drawing from a holster, shooting from different positions, moving while shooting.

Equipment
Handgun 9mm or larger with strong side hip holster
(shoulder, cross draw and small of the back holsters are not allowed) magazines for 45 rounds, double magazine pouch, 5-600 rounds of Ammo
Eye protection (clear for after dark) and ear protection are mandatory
Appropriate clothing for outdoor shooting (low cut shirts and sandals are not recommended) Water bottle, Hat with brim forward
At least 1 small bright flashlight with spare batteries (60 lumens minimum)

Optional equipment:
Extra magazines
Spare pistol in case of breakage
Concealed carry cover (Coat or vest)

The cost of this class is $100 per person, If paid by Dec 1st. This covers instruction, the range fee, and target cost. Class will be taught At Fullers Custom Guns in Woodbury Ga. on Saturday December 5th 1-10pm
Please register as soon as possible we expect this class to fill up quickly
If you have any questions contact me at [email protected]

[81911SC]

Damn, wish I wouldn't have blown througha lot of my stash recently. May still try and attend.

[Danny]

Damn, wish I wouldn't have blown througha lot of my stash recently. May still try and attend.

well get on it dude. lets car pool :D

Only a "few" slots left according to Scott on friday.

[BanginJimmy]

this sounds like alot of fun. I may be down, but I need to wait about 2 weeks to know for sure what my work schedule will be like.

[Danny]

if your interested i can email you all the course info (application, directions, ect).

[BanginJimmy]

please

[efman]

is this a 1 time class or do you put on these classes often ?

[Danny]

efman, I am not putting on this class. Sorry i didnt mean to come across as if I am. The class is being instructed by Scott Vandiver of Centerfire training. I am a student.

[Cool Cat Racing]

I'd really like to come out to this. My pistol has no rail for a light though. Any options for a good light or any other options. I wish my pistol had a rail so I could just take the tactical light off my AR and use that. Also where is Woodbury?

[Danny]

The class is designed for hand held lights. I tend to lean towards surfire lights, mostly because I have had good luck with mine and havent had a reason to try any other brands.

Woodbury
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=woodbury,+ga&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=44.793449,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Woodbury,+Meriwether,+Georgia&ll=33.073131,-84.539795&spn=1.48907,3.56781&z=9

[Cool Cat Racing]

Well shit that's not too far from me, I was hoping it wasn't up in north Ga somewhere. If its setup for handhelds I'm good, I've got a nice handheld but like the tactical light so much better.

[Danny]

Ya the instructor said he will let us practice at the end with weapon lights. If i have a weapon light by then i will probably shoot the course with it on there, but not use it, i just want to test the durability of the rail I put on.

Also, you may want to consider registering very soon. This is a pretty unique class, and I wouldn't be surprised if it fills up any day now.

Some of the guys are getting hotel rooms, I think im jsut going to try and drive back that night. Your lucky its close to you, you should take advantage of that.

[Cool Cat Racing]

I sent him an email last night. If its not full I'll be there.

[Danny]

Awesome man!

What weapon system you planning on running?

[Danny]

Anyone interested in a combatives course? Just got off the phone with Robert Wilson, he has almost 30 years experience in empty hand, and firearms. He is thinking about doing a 3 month course, training 2-3 times a week 1-2 hours each time. It will be all hand to hand, with little to no firearm. But he is thinking about 300 bucks, which is dirt cheap.

I still need to look into it a little more, but seems promising.

[Truegiant]

Make sure you plan on bringing an extra set of roll around clothes up to the house. I figured we would start in the am. Do some setup and shooting. Run a couple of scenarios. Practice transitioning from Primary to bug. Run a couple of scenarios. Do some mountaineering/land nav.. eat lunch. Then do some combatives.. then on to the stress shoots. Should be about 8-10 hrs of hard training. We could really make it into two days with all shooting on one day and combatives and land nav on another day. I am trying to acquire a bunch of chem lights to setup a night land nav course. Then we could really have some fun. With chem lights you can setup shoot/dont shoot scenarios and react to contact scenarios for live engagement.

Hmm... I dont think I am going to have room for all of this in the car for the drive up.. ahah.

[Danny]

Sounds like im gonna get my arse kicked haha. cant wait.

[BanginJimmy]

well its a no-go for me on the shoot. Work schedule is going to be crazy leading up to x-mas and I cant miss out on the OT. As it is, I am letting Lockheed keep over $400 because my mom is in town so I cant work this weekend.

[Cool Cat Racing]

Anyone interested in a combatives course? Just got off the phone with Robert Wilson, he has almost 30 years experience in empty hand, and firearms. He is thinking about doing a 3 month course, training 2-3 times a week 1-2 hours each time. It will be all hand to hand, with little to no firearm. But he is thinking about 300 bucks, which is dirt cheap.

I still need to look into it a little more, but seems promising.

Where would this be held at? I'd possibly be interested depending on how far away it is. I got a response from him today and there's still several spots open if anyone else is interested in going. As for what I'll be bringing with me it will most likely be my Sig since that is what I'm most used to at this point. I'm looking at picking up a larger Sig or a Glock but that will probably be after Christmas so I doubt I'll be bringing anything else. I'm planning on using my new drop leg holster so I can get some experience doing things like this with it instead of my hip holster.

[Danny]

there is talk of it being in conyers. Which is a good drive for me, but I think it will be worth it.

Dont forget you will want to be able to carry at least two spare mags on your person and probably some extra loose ammo. I usually dump 50rds into my cargo pocket and top mags off between drills while the instructors are talking. But I usually only see single stack guys doing this.

[Cool Cat Racing]

My Sig only has 8rd mags right now but I'm about to get the 10rd mags but that's all it will hold so I'll be carrying a few extra each round.

[Truegiant]

there is talk of it being in conyers. Which is a good drive for me, but I think it will be worth it.

Dont forget you will want to be able to carry at least two spare mags on your person and probably some extra loose ammo. I usually dump 50rds into my cargo pocket and top mags off between drills while the instructors are talking. But I usually only see single stack guys doing this.

Small fanny packs work wonders for this. That way it doesnt keep you from really moving around with loose rounds everywhere.

[Danny]

cool cat. u send you stuff in?

[Cool Cat Racing]

Oh yea. He sent me an email today since I haven't been to any formal training courses so he was questioning if I qualify for this since its technically an advanced class. I've done plenty of drills with police friends like what he was saying is covered in the beginner class. I'm waiting on his response to see if I can go or if I have to take the beginner class just to qualify.

[Danny]

ahh well let me know what he says.

maybe u can sneak in a basic class somewhere before this class if need be.

[Cool Cat Racing]

He wanted me to come out there this weekend so he could make sure I was ready but I'll be out of town so that's a no go. I did just get a response from him and after I told him what all I've done he said I'm fine for this class so I'll see you there. I'm gonna see how things go and I might pick up some of those Pmags from you if you can bring some with you.

[Danny]

Awesome, glad to hear he cleared you. Should be a good course, i hope lol

Sounds good on the pmags.

[efman]

i did night shooting training tonight for the first time and was surprised on how defferent it is, and how important night sights and a good light is!

[Danny]

cool cat....ready man?

[Jaimecbr900]

Didn't see this until just now. Sounds very cool to me. Wish I could go. :(

[Danny]

Ill post the next one i decide to go to along with some 2010 schedules soon. Would be nice to find a small group to do a weekend trip to some of the national instructors.

This class is full btw, for anyone who may be thinking they are interested.

[Jaimecbr900]

Ill post the next one i decide to go to along with some 2010 schedules soon. Would be nice to find a small group to do a weekend trip to some of the national instructors.

This class is full btw, for anyone who may be thinking they are interested.

I figured it would be full by now. That sucks for me.....:(

I would've liked to have done this one. Let me know of the next one.

[Truegiant]

SO DANNY _ Give us the details. What did you learn?

[Danny]

First part of the course was spent running basic drills. Interestingly enough the malfunction drills were taught slap and rack first (of course) then if still no bang rip the mag out, reseat top round and then reinsert the mag. But were were not given any time to set up malfs on our own weapons to try it. Like some other techniques demoed in the class, the students were not given drill time to practice. I have seen that rip/stripe method before for glocks, but if im not mistaken it doesnt work so pretty on 1911s, looks like i will be setting up some malf drills to practice.

The class was NOT accuracy driven and the term point shoot was even tossed about at distances i was not comfortable with using the term. I think sights are there for a reason, use them, the only thing that should change with distance is the quality of your sight picture. A couple drills were used to shoot 90 degrees to the side of you with out squaring up to the target. Interesting concepts, but the distance felt too great IMO to not aim, and i kept having trouble doing what the instructor was asking. Just ask cool cat racing, i was butchering the point shoot technique lol.

Night time was interesting. We did some dusk work, which is great. Considering dusk simulates the majority of city/neighborhood ambient lighting and pretty much the only time night sights are usfull imo. We also did some lights off drills, pitch black. Which at first seemed silly, but i guess there is bound to be some instance where you have PID on a combatant even though the current level lighting doesnt allow you to see anything but a silhoette (seems mutally exclusive to me but whatever).

Different techniques of holding the flashlight were taught and considerable time using each technique was spent. The instructor(s) did not get on to people about the importance of proper on/off usage of a light enough imo.

Allthough i didnt like some of the tecniques i learned a good bit (including my winter clothing choice SUCKED lol) the instructor has the same attitude I have, learn all the techniques you can and use and apply those that work for you. So with this in mind the class was great.

In general the instructor wasnt as picky about the details as I like, and no shooting on the move drills were preformed. Only move then shoot drills. Overall good course for the money. Round count about 450ish.

Yea i know, poorly thought out AAR, ohh well. back to writing a report and studying for finals... blehhhh


Cool Cat Racing found out he needs to buy a mag carrier lol.

[Truegiant]

First part of the course was spent running basic drills. Interestingly enough the malfunction drills were taught slap and rack first (of course) then if still no bang rip the mag out, reseat top round and then reinsert the mag. But were were not given any time to set up malfs on our own weapons to try it. Like some other techniques demoed in the class, the students were not given drill time to practice. I have seen that rip/stripe method before for glocks, but if im not mistaken it doesnt work so pretty on 1911s, looks like i will be setting up some malf drills to practice.

The class was NOT accuracy driven and the term point shoot was even tossed about at distances i was not comfortable with using the term. I think sights are there for a reason, use them, the only thing that should change with distance is the quality of your sight picture. A couple drills were used to shoot 90 degrees to the side of you with out squaring up to the target. Interesting concepts, but the distance felt too great IMO to not aim, and i kept having trouble doing what the instructor was asking. Just ask cool cat racing, i was butchering the point shoot technique lol.

Night time was interesting. We did some dusk work, which is great. Considering dusk simulates the majority of city/neighborhood ambient lighting and pretty much the only time night sights are usfull imo. We also did some lights off drills, pitch black. Which at first seemed silly, but i guess there is bound to be some instance where you have PID on a combatant even though the current level lighting doesnt allow you to see anything but a silhoette (seems mutally exclusive to me but whatever).

Different techniques of holding the flashlight were taught and considerable time using each technique was spent. The instructor(s) did not get on to people about the importance of proper on/off usage of a light enough imo.

Allthough i didnt like some of the tecniques i learned a good bit (including my winter clothing choice SUCKED lol) the instructor has the same attitude I have, learn all the techniques you can and use and apply those that work for you. So with this in mind the class was great.

In general the instructor wasnt as picky about the details as I like, and no shooting on the move drills were preformed. Only move then shoot drills. Overall good course for the money. Round count about 450ish.

Yea i know, poorly thought out AAR, ohh well. back to writing a report and studying for finals... blehhhh


Cool Cat Racing found out he needs to buy a mag carrier lol.

Sounds like you had a little fun. Seems like alot of info was covered for a large class during a small time frame. I am on staff duty right now so I am bored to death and have plenty of time to chat.

If they were teaching you the point shoot method I am glad they didnt teach any kind of shooting on the move. Point shoot within around 7-10yds with practice will have you shooting 12" groups fairly easy. The same concept with moving involved makes around a 20" group which is def not your average sized human. I have formulated a shooting style for shooting on the move that has worked well for me and I think we have touched on it before. The problem most people have with shooting on the move is consitency. Pulling the trigger at the same time or point during there motion of travel. What I like to do is take a bunch of magazines and only load like 8-10 rds in each one. Start off at a seriously slow pace moving towards my target ensuring that I always am moving heal to toe with my feet. I will shoot the rounds at the same point during my stride. For me I noticed that if everytime I plant my right foot on the ground I take a shot I am more consitent. It might not make sense but imagine an elliptical machine. imagine the path of motion that your feet make over and over. If you can time your shots to always be in the same spot during travel you will have a consistent sight picture. Now of course it depends on what rate of fire your shooting and in what type of scenario but I have found that when I move I am my most sturdiest and reliable when my right foot strikes the ground.

Its funny that you metion clothing. Alot of guys are so worried about looking tacticool that they forget the basics like staying warm, etc. I actually went to a class were they made us run through a scenario in an old bed that they had with no gear on and a night stand as a start point. Its amazing how hard it is to fight an attacker in the pitch black.

[Danny]

i was taught not to shoot in time and to add a little pressure each time your sight picture is good and one of the times the sight picture is good you will add just that little bit more pressure that breaks the shot. Of course experience comes to were this happens very fast and you dont have to wait for a certain part in your stride.

Another down fall of shooting in time is you may break a shot when you dont need to. Point is apply pressure when your sight picture is right, regardless of where you are in your stride. At least thats how i was taught, but then again i have never been ina gun fight so i cant tell you how its working for me under stress. lol

And yes, the class covered alot as the point seemed to be to learn as many things as possible so you can practice on your own, vs learn a couple things and learn to do them well. I canappreciate both teaching styles really, and wouldnt really want one with out the other.. if that makes any sense.

[Truegiant]

I like teaching my timed method on carbines only. ITs an easy beginner tool because you are keeping all factors of your shot consistent. I can teach you to focus on making informed inputs in your stance, movement techniques, trigger squeeze, target acquisition, etc. Plus when I have 5-6 people on line I can analyize who is making the wrong basic mistakes at any point in time. As time progress' on and you can actually hit a target I start to let soldiers start getting more freedom. I have found that in combat situations shooting while moving is extremely ineffective anyways. It works great for suppresive fire and to keep the enemies head down, but unless your within about 7-10 yds hitting your target on the move with any kind of real speed is extremely difficult. Of course the movies and drills look high speed when people are moving at a crawling pace and engaging targets.. But when that first bullet flies by your head.. I can promise you there is no "walking" towards the enemy and yelling at them "stand still focker so I can shoot you because we never practice shooting moving targets on the move"

Anywho.. :2cents:

Like we have both come to learn.. Use what works for you and tweak what doesnt!

[Danny]

Good point. Love how there seldom is "the right" way to do things, always another technique that will get similar results.

On i side topic.

"trigger press" vs "trigger squeeze". I like the term press because imo it more accuratly depicts what you are trying to accomplish: pressing the trigger directly to the rear. Instead of squeezing the trigger to the rear. Ok am i getting too picky? lol

off to the other thread to talk about 1911s :D

[Cool Cat Racing]

I learned quite a bit. First thing I learned is that I need a bit more time with my new M&P 9. I hadn't put too much through it before hand so it was all a bit new. Got some good practice in various scenarios. One thing that I laughed at on the way home was how much I could tell the time spent on shooting games helped. I spend a lot of time at any arcade playing shooting games and always shoot in a proper stance and go to low ready in between shooting. In those games you have to get your sight picture quickly and shoot quickly and accurately since many have bystanders that cause issues. It sounds dumb in one way but I could clearly see how it helped me doing it there. Now that I'm moving to Florida I've been looking into Cumberland Tactics a good bit. Danny if you're ever gonna make it down to one of their classes let me know and if I can I'll go.

[Endless3763]

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[Endless3763]

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