View Full Version : built an lsvtec, and it blew... where did it go wrong?
teh_mugen18
10-14-2009, 03:37 PM
the only thing that i know is, at first the engine used to have a slight knock because of dry startups, and it progressively got worse til this point throwing a rod through the block. I'm currently in the process of breaking it down and looking at what possibly could've gone wrong and i can kinda put some of the pieces together but not all of it. First, i see that one of the ls rods stretched and snapped whch took the piston skirt with it, and i could see that happening due to the high revs but it was only being revved to 7,500 which i thought was safe. Secondly, after taking my oil filter off and looking inside of it, i see that there is nearly ZERO oil in it; nothing but air inside... this is the part that concerns me the most, and i am wondering how i could prevent this from happening again on a future engine. The engine was FULL of oil, checked it constantly. I do know for a fact that the head was getting oil but it seems like my bottom end was definately not... I'm wondering WHY? could it just be the fact that i didnt replace the LS oil pump with a gsr one, or what?? And its odd, because the thing would still pop vtec and i assumed that that meant the thing had good oil pressure throughout.
did you get the crank balanced? if not then that was a bad mistake
dorin48
10-14-2009, 04:59 PM
could it just be the fact that i didnt replace the LS oil pump with a gsr one
Thats exactly why it failed. Yours is certainly not the first to fail because of it.
did you get the crank balanced? if not then that was a bad mistake
That doesnt really make sense seeing as how the bottom end is stock. Its clear from the type of failure that the engine was starved for oil, not revving too high.
jadakid88
10-14-2009, 05:07 PM
damn man sorry to hear
Vteckidd
10-14-2009, 05:15 PM
the oil pump has over 100K on it it can be a problem, but oil pump failures are kinda rare at that RPM.
dorin48
10-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Vteckidd,
Is it possible that the vtec head has larger oil galleys?
An engine that needs more oil in the head (for what ever reason, like a head swap...) commonly starves the bottom end. Also when the head requires some volume of oil to engage vtec. If the galleys are bigger and vtec is engaged I could see it being enough to hurt a bottom end eventually from pressure drop at high rpms.
teh_mugen18
10-14-2009, 06:08 PM
Vteckidd,
Is it possible that the vtec head has larger oil galleys?
An engine that needs more oil in the head (for what ever reason, like a head swap...) commonly starves the bottom end. Also when the head requires some volume of oil to engage vtec. If the galleys are bigger and vtec is engaged I could see it being enough to hurt a bottom end eventually from pressure drop at high rpms.
this seems like it makes sense... but if its 100% accurate, im not sure. the only thing i can think of is the fact that the oil pump either wasnt pumping enough, or that the pickup got clogged, or that it just all out failed. :no: Either way, this is still a dark area for me. How could this possibly be prevented in the future, install two oil pressure gauges in the car to have one for the head and one for the block?
EDIT: also drained the oil out, and theres no metal shavings in the oil that i could see... its possible they could all be sitting in the bottom of the oil pan waiting for me though...
dorin48
10-14-2009, 06:19 PM
How bout this. A few years ago when the LSV was getting really popular and the kits just came out Honda Tuning did an article on how to build a reliable LSV. They documented the process used (with much success) by a shop in Cali. The article specifically mentions failure due to leaving on the LS oil pump. Honda Tuning isnt the end all be all of resources but seems credible in this instance.
Starrfire
10-14-2009, 06:46 PM
Could just be that you are unlucky. Why keep driving it after a rod knock? That destroys the crank. How many miles did the thing have on it?
civicmantim
10-14-2009, 06:48 PM
You can go to lightning motorsports.com and buy the a coplete kit that comes with the head gasket,arp headstuds, golden eagle sanwich plate and the steel braided oil line that taps into the head my friend and I did the same setup over 2yrs ago he's put well over 70 thousand miles on this motor and he drives it like there's no tommorow and his average rev is 8000rpm when he is beating on it one more thing scotty chipped the ecu for it also anyways this worked for us maybe it will work for you.
teh_mugen18
10-14-2009, 06:50 PM
You can go to lightning motorsports.com and buy the a coplete kit that comes with the head gasket,arp headstuds, golden eagle sanwich plate and the steel braided oil line that taps into the head my friend and I did the same setup over 2yrs ago he's put well over 70 thousand on this motor and he drives it there's no tommorow and his average rev is 8000rpm when he is beating on it one more thing scotty chipped the ecu for it also anyways this worked for us maybe it will work for you.
lol thats exactly what i did to mine. But, i bet your friend put the vtec oil pump on his didnt he?
teh_mugen18
10-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Could just be that you are unlucky. Why keep driving it after a rod knock? That destroys the crank. How many miles did the thing have on it?
it had ~105k on the block, and a fully rebuilt head
jojeezek
10-14-2009, 07:41 PM
Alright fellas so I am about to do a mini me swap. should I get a vtec d16z6 oil pump for my swap, since my block is d16y8 (non vtec) The part about the block being starved of oil at high rpms scares me.
dorin48
10-14-2009, 07:44 PM
Alright fellas so I am about to do a mini me swap. should I get a vtec d16z6 oil pump for my swap, since my block is d16y8 (non vtec) The part about the block being starved of oil at high rpms scares me.
A d16Y8 is vtec dude.
Starrfire
10-14-2009, 09:54 PM
Well time to rebuild since you didn't have any money in it anyways. Shit happens and you have no choice but to get over it. Pull it out and get a better bottom end.
Black4DrEK
10-14-2009, 10:19 PM
Damn man that sucks.. Seems to me that the LS oil pump had a big part to do with it..
When did you rebuild it? recently?
SlamminCRX
10-14-2009, 11:24 PM
yea most likely it was the oil pump, i changed mine to a type r oil pump and my ls/vtec ran great, revved it to 8000 whenever i felt like it without a single problem, i also had arp rod bolts, but other then that i had a stock block. ls rods wont handle high rpm's but it shouldnt affect it if you revved it to 7500.
the only thing you can do is rebuild the bottom end, check your crank, if not get a new one and put a gsr oil pump on it
might as well do rods and pistons. and all the bearings
Thats exactly why it failed. Yours is certainly not the first to fail because of it.
That doesnt really make sense seeing as how the bottom end is stock. Its clear from the type of failure that the engine was starved for oil, not revving too high.
i was just saying that cause i know alota people that had boost on there ls-vtec and threw rod barings all day and just about every ls-vtec ive seen that dosent get it balanced ends up failing and yea it has turbo so fast revs but ive seen em throw rods on n/a at low rpm due to stress over time.
but yea probly the oil pump.
southside
10-16-2009, 08:42 AM
Yea using a ls oil pump might have been your failing point.I switched my to a Type-R one also.
SlamminCRX
10-17-2009, 12:16 AM
type r on jhpusa for 100 bucks. was when i got it, havent checked the site lately
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