DO NOT USE PAYPAL, Merchants beware.....

[Vteckidd]

I know youve seen these threads before, but this is the last straw with me and paypal. I urge EVERYONE to use a better service such as GOOGLE CHECKOUT and stop giving paypal money.

Hour Pung is engaged in trying to defraud me over paypal.

August 11th he won an ebay auction for an RSX header. He received the header August 24th via USPS in Australia

cj307139957us

September 5th, without any communication he opened a dispute via paypal for a "significantly not as described item"

Hour Pung has opened a dispute for the payment made on Aug 11, 2009
indicating that the item they received did not match the original
description.

Hour Pung has requested a $531.35 USD refund



He requested a FULL REFUND because he said :

View dispute comments

* 9/5/2009 07:49 PDT - PayPal: Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.

* 9/5/2009 07:49 PDT - Buyer: The seller provide false information. Will not provide refund because the item has been fitted to the car. It's only possible to find out that it fits by trying to put it on to the car. To fit this item to the car it will cost alot more to custom fit the item. Seller mislead me completely.

* 9/5/2009 07:29 PDT - Seller: It clearly states it bolts on to rsx and ep3 it does not. What car do you have? So you are complaining it doesn't bolt to you exhaust??!!! You must have an ep3 If it has been run on the car I offer no refund at allNext time read the auction or do some more research about the product you are buying. The information is all over eBay Honda-tech clubrsx etc

* 9/5/2009 06:56 PDT - Buyer: that was not mentioned on your product listing. I didnt know i have to do any exhaust modificiations. The product does not match. Will mail it back to you. It does not fit my car.

* 9/5/2009 06:53 PDT - Seller: Furthermore this is a race header. Some exhaust modification can be required especially if you have an ep3. You will NOT get a refund especially while you still have my product. You would have to show me pics it's a defect and mail it back before I ever even considered a refund.

CLEARLY in my Auction on ebay it states that the RSX ONLY has a test pipe to bolt to stock:
KiddRACING K20 RSX/EP3/EM2 Header SPecs
-304 Stainless Brushed Steel
-2.5 in collector
-Hand Tig Welded
-RSX comes with extension piece to bolt to STOCK exhaust
-1 Year Warranty against breaking/cracking backed by me
-FITS ALL K SERIES : K20A3, K20A2, K20Z1
-FITS ALL CHASSIS: DC5 (RSX), EP3 (02+ Civic SI), EM2 WITH K Swap
-10+ Whp Gain over Stock and other Aftermarket headers


HE NEVER ASKED ME ANY questions about his car, what kind of car it is, what would be needed to bolt it up or anything. He simply bought it, received it, installed it, then made a claim via paypal. I cannot refund someone that installs and runs my product, ESPECIALLY when A) they still have the product B) he said it has been used on his car for several weeks.

Even in this thread he admits to it being installed on his car.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=676655

Paypal escalated the case to a claim, and asked if i would take the item back. I vehemently said NO because the item was not defective and it was USED and installed on the buyers car. Regardless of this fact, they told the BUYER to MAIL THE ITEM BACK FOR A FULL REFUND. This is what i got back:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/IMG_5297-75.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/IMG_5299-75.jpg


A box with tissue paper and 2 used T Shirts. Paypal considered that sufficient:


PayPal has concluded the investigation of the following claim:


Buyer's name: Hour Pung
Buyer's email: [email protected]
Transaction ID: 4GY63073V6310962M

Transaction date: Aug 11, 2009
Transaction amount: $531.35 USD
Your transaction ID: 5BG697457C1820451
Case number: PP-780-448-788

Refund amount: $531.35 USD



Delivery of the returned item has been confirmed and a refund will be
issued from your account. Insufficient funds in your account may result in
your account being limited.



I will be filing a lawsuit against them because this is the last time they will steal my money. Basically guys all you have to do is buy the item you want on ebay, say it "doesnt match description" , then mail back and empty box an you will get to keep the item and your money! If you are a merchant and use ebay, id be VERY SCARED because your money is now unprotected.

I do 20-40K a month in paypal transactions and this is how they treat me.



PLEASE IF YOU HAVE A STORY WHERE PAYPAL HAS SCREWED YOU OVER PLEASE EMAIL ME THE SPECIFIC DETAILS TO [email protected] SUBJECT "PAYPAL FRAUD". I CANT FIGHT THEM ALONE, I NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO COME FORWARD. THE ONLY REASON PAYPAL IS STILL AROUND IS BECAUSE OF CONVENIENCE. WE CHOOSE TO USE THEM BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER "ALTERNATIVE". I FOR ONE AM TIRED OF GIVING THEM MY MONEY AND HAVING THEM TREAT ME LIKE A CRIMINAL OR A SCAMMER WHEN IM THE HONEST PERSON. HELP ME STOP THEM, EMAIL ME.

[The Ren]

I had an issue just last week... I will say after alot of bickering they have fixed the problem.. but to sum up the problem it took them over 9 days to remove and INSTANT transfer from my account and when they did.. it deducted the amount twice from my account (once the day I paid for the item) and then once 9 days later..

[EmminoDaGreat]

Lets fly to australia :)_

[eg mike]

Damn man! Does it state the weight of the box? That should be required to match your weight shipped.

[Nittanys1]

that blows!

I have purchased TSX ballast off ebay and they were delivered to my fried...paypal never refunded my money!

[JITB]

thats some bull!

[-EnVus-]

i have some cases open right now from EGay ppl with paypal saying i didnt pay for items but i did and even have receipts and ledger proof. PAYPAL IS FUKING GAY

[BanginJimmy]

Issues like this is why I no longer use ebay or paypal for anything.

[THEONE]

happended to me when i was sellin hydrogen kits on ebay, if the buyer said they wanted a redund paypal would pull the money without asking and put it on hold then always side with the buyer and give them my money and i lost everytime. i am banned from paypal sine i used my own method to get my money back from them hahaha

[D3UC3S]

Stopped using paypal a while ago...I support local business!!!!

G/L mike!

[Blitanicle99]

Damn that's screwed up pretty bad.


I will try google checkout from now on.

Thanks for the heads up.

[b17a1db2]

So far, i had only 1 thing happen to me through paypal. that was, i helped out a friend sell his slim ps2 for 100 shipped. they said they never got it. but i'm sure they did. They typed into the paypal box saying a bunch of crap, and they would never really talk to me, just in the stupid dispute shit they got in paypal. and ended up taking 100 dollars of my money, when i helped sell something for a friend.

So. I sold it, received $100, gave to my friend. Then Lost $100 of my own money. And I think this was some international shipping also. So Now I don't ship anywhere but the contiguous 48 states.

[Cato ED-6]

I had close to the same thing happen to me. I sold a online game account and two days later the person claimed they were hacked and paypal gave them back their money, so they got the money and account! i got the account back but it took days and the whole thing was bullshit. when it happened i sent them TONS of stuff like the pm's back and forth between me and the person and info on the account but they didnt care.

[Elbow]

LOLOL good luck winning DIME from them, been there done that MANY times, I quit using them a long time ago, they are a complete joke.

[Elbow]

So far, i had only 1 thing happen to me through paypal. that was, i helped out a friend sell his slim ps2 for 100 shipped. they said they never got it. but i'm sure they did. They typed into the paypal box saying a bunch of crap, and they would never really talk to me, just in the stupid dispute shit they got in paypal. and ended up taking 100 dollars of my money, when i helped sell something for a friend.

So. I sold it, received $100, gave to my friend. Then Lost $100 of my own money. And I think this was some international shipping also. So Now I don't ship anywhere but the contiguous 48 states.

That's happened to me many times.

[MongolPup]

http://paypalsucks.com/ has TONS of these stories.

[-S Double C-]

LOL NOW I NEED TO ORDER ME A 6262 AND SEND BACK MY SC61 LOL

[JessAlba452]

Wow that IS really messed up. Can't believe they tried to pull some crap like that. Both the person AND Paypal.
I think I'm going to be switching to google check out then!

What happened with me was that someone hacked into my account changed the language to Chinese, took $300 from my bank and changed it back to English.

I logged in and filed a dispute, they did nothing. Luckily I stopped it in time and called my bank to dispute the -$300. Paypal closed my account and that is why most of the time I try to sell things here on IA or in person.

Paypal SUCKS seriously!

[THEONE]

so can i use google check out instead of paypal on ebay?

[JessAlba452]

^
I just signed up for GoogleCheck out for that very reason. I'm going to try using it instead of Paypal for Ebay.

[THEONE]

^
I just signed up for GoogleCheck out for that very reason. I'm going to try using it instead of Paypal for Ebay.

ok,im gonna give it a shot,i lost a potential profitable online buisness because of paypal so hopefully google checkout works,funny how my old partner is still sellin my product on ebay using paypal with no complaints.....oh well thats how it goes...

paypal sucks!

[EJdm]

i've always hated paypal...anywase gl with your case...

[JessAlba452]

ok,im gonna give it a shot,i lost a potential profitable online buisness because of paypal so hopefully google checkout works,funny how my old partner is still sellin my product on ebay using paypal with no complaints.....oh well thats how it goes...

paypal sucks!

What were you selling if it's okay to ask?

[Vteckidd]

Don't use google checkout with eBay, eBay will ban your account if you use it

[THEONE]

What were you selling if it's okay to ask?

i build and was building hydrogen generators....nothin letal i never sold anything that would cause personal injury...but i can make some wicked nasty stuff.but i never sold blow a 8 foot hole in the gound with household materials and stuff though i could but never would or tell anyone how to do so but i will say it can be done with water and power hahaahha :D if i wanted but i never tired haahaha uh yeah and ..... but anyways hydrogen generators to add to a stock vehicle to save gas and well you know......the stuff the big oil companies convineced the public was well ya know......

[NoWAyItZTOMmY]

got scammed through paypal, sided with, but aint get shiat.

[civicturbo10]

I feel your pain. I had the same problem but in reverse. I received item not as described but since i payed with funds in my account i didn't get back all of my money back. Since then i have learned to pay with credit card. What that guy did is just down right dirty. I don't understand why paypal is not siding with you based on weight of the package. Clearly it's in your favor if they investigate properly.

[VickNotic]

woww maybe you have met your match! hour bung watever seems to be a pro dealing with ebay ... this is why i never buy nething on ebay unless it's worth buying and losing

[Benefit]

haha u fucking idiot vteckidd, im glad ur bitch ass got owned...ol retarded muthafucka

[Vteckidd]

haha u fucking idiot vteckidd, im glad ur bitch ass got owned...ol retarded muthafucka

figures you would side with a scammer, asshat

[choiiiiiiiii]

what a fucking faggot. sorry to hear about this boss. thankfully i've never had any issues with paypal, but i will definitely be alot more cautious now...

[eraser4g63]

I have had multiple problems with eBay and PayPal, refuse to use either.

[AtifSajid]

Bro, if I emails you all my stories..fuk..ive lost almost $4-5k in paypal.

[patrick4588]

Bro, if I emails you all my stories..fuk..ive lost almost $4-5k in paypal.
after you got screwed multiple times you kept using them?

[Cool Cat Racing]

I had them pull money from my account when a buyer said what I sold him didn't work. It was an SR ecu that was pulled a few weeks before from a perfect car. I know he plugged it in and it didn't solve his problem so rather than resell it or ask for a refund he starts a dispute and won without any work. I called Paypal and they said they would always side with the buyer since they could cancel the charge with their bank or credit card. I actually got the computer back, verified it worked fine and resold it, that buyer said it worked fine and I'm sure is still using it. It pissed me off but nothing like what you're dealing with. I'd be doing the same thing if that's what I got back from the customer.

[JJSPEC Racing]

What I am reading these issues are for merchandise sales. Has anyone had problems with labor payments?

[Vteckidd]

What I am reading these issues are for merchandise sales. Has anyone had problems with labor payments?

i would not use Paypal for LABOR payments, its too easy to lose money. Use GOOGLE CHECKOUT, much easier and there is less chance if a chargeback happening.


Heres the problem, PAYPAL plays mediator. They dont know the difference between you and the buyer, and who ripped who off. They will 99% of the time SIDE WITH THE BUYER. The buyers KNOW this. All it takes is a buyer to say that you didnt "perform a service you said you did" and your up shits creek because even if you CAN prove it, paypal isnt in any position to believe you.

If someone just send you money and it isnt designated as "labor" you are fucked instantly. you are at risk ANYONE can do a "dispute" and paypal will require a tracking number from you. If you tell them it was labor, they will reverse the payment and send the money back to the "buyer" and send you acct negative if the money is gone.

DONT DO IT ive been through it all.

[Gutling]

I almost got screwed through paypal, but managed to win. I sold a turbo kit a while back, I bought it new and had it on my truck about 2000 miles, and sold it on egay. a few days after selling it, i get a paypal dispute, and the money deducted from me. I never received any kind of communication from the seller, I had no clue what was going on. He filed a claim because item was "significantly different from described". I called paypal raising bloody hell for weeks until he finally didn't respond to one of the automated things in the dispute, and it rewarded it to me. He emailed me every day until he got it, then I never heard directly from him again, just what he wrote in paypal. I was furious, if there was someone I could kick in the groin at paypal I would. I have never used it since then.

[Vteckidd]

after you got screwed multiple times you kept using them?

they have a monopoly IMO on online pay service.

90% of MY CUSTOMERS will not buy from me unless they can use paypal. They know that paypal sides almost always with the buyer so they are protected, and a great deal of them know how to scam paypal and the seller into getting money.

Paypal DOES NOT PROTECT THE SELLER nearly as much as the buyer.

So when 90% of your customer base wants to use that service, you cant simply say "no".

Paypal has businesses by the balls because you either use them and accept the fact that every 6 months youll lose 1-2 transactions and deal with it, or dont use them and pretty much go out of business.

Thats the simple truth.

[boosted b]

justed emailed you

[SouthSide Tay]

i been using google checkout and froogle for years now i have been fucked on both paypal and ebay I WILL NEVER SELL anything else on there.....but buying isnt so bad. hell you almost cant lose.

[JJSPEC Racing]

they have a monopoly IMO on online pay service.

90% of MY CUSTOMERS will not buy from me unless they can use paypal. They know that paypal sides almost always with the buyer so they are protected, and a great deal of them know how to scam paypal and the seller into getting money.

Paypal DOES NOT PROTECT THE SELLER nearly as much as the buyer.

So when 90% of your customer base wants to use that service, you cant simply say "no".

Paypal has businesses by the balls because you either use them and accept the fact that every 6 months youll lose 1-2 transactions and deal with it, or dont use them and pretty much go out of business.

Thats the simple truth.

Do you take credit cards? Or is that not an option? Just wondering.

[Vteckidd]

I take credit cards through google. Google checkout is a real merchant acct, paypal isn't

[cjhutch]

For large transactions I use Escrow. The fee is a little high, but I rather take a $25-$30 hit than a $1000 hit.

[Tech5]

I have to agree paypal sucks at times

[speedminded]

Wouldn't a true merchant service be cheaper in the long run than the 4% paypal fee?

[RedGTS]

Dude, paypal has raped me twice. I will never use them again. 1st time the buyer said he didnt recieve his $400 worth of autometer guages, I had tracking number and everything paypal refunded his money = I lose.

Then as a buyer, I purchased a $1700 exhaust for my M3, it gets here its a replica from China, different than pictured. I had my bank reverse the money from paypal, and they call me daily harassing me for there money. Too bad

Paypal protects crooks plain and simple. I wish there fucking company goes bankrupt and there CEO dies so I can piss on his grave.

[RedGTS]

Mike, I would be more than happy to provide you with some more details if you need them.

[JJSPEC Racing]

I take credit cards through a machine and have had no issues.

[CSquared]

Yeah they've probably been as much my fault as the person I was dealing with but I've been fucked twice now on ebay/paypal. I don't really deal anymore with private sellers or companies I don't know because it seems that 99% my transactions are paypal only... and you don't know who the hell to trust these days.

[AtifSajid]

after you got screwed multiple times you kept using them?

That was over a 2-3 year period. The amount of money I made doesnt compare to what I lost.

[redrumracer]

Lets fly to australia :)_

x2

[JDMGRNAV6]

damn this all sounds like complete bullshit, i wont ever use them again

[DeeAOne]

wow, this is kinda scary seeing that i just ordered headers almost 2 weeks ago and i have not got them yet..

[Saung]

I've lost 250.00 through Paypal, bought a part from [email protected]. Sent the guy the fund in Fl., never got my part and Paypal didn't do shit to help get my money back. Thanks for the info on Google checkout.

[patrick4588]

as a business its much harder, as a personal individual just try to use good judgement and make sure your buyer/seller has a lot of vouches by other respected members.