Meth Injection on N/A

[HiRide]

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So is anyone here running meth injection on their N/A motor with an actual tune to go along with it?

Just wanted to get an idea of power gains, tuning issues, nozzle placement, etc...

I doubt anyone that is, is going to be in the same car as me but I could still use any advice, experience, etc...

I just purchased an Aquamist HFS-5 system that will be controlled via my piggyback and then I will put it on the dyno and tune.

Also wanted to know what throttle and RPM were used for the switch..

I am making 321 RWHP and am hoping to get up to 350-370 if possible.

[AnthonyF]

Weren't you asking this somewhere else and answering at the same time?

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?p=4233870

I do not feel that the gains will be worth doing this modification. Do you race a lot with this car or on DD it? My friend is running Meth in his DD and it's a pain in the ass b/c he has to fill it up so often.

I would have gone with a nice nitrous injection kit with 2 tunes, n/a tune then one with spray.

-Ant.

[mp5o]

Are you running out of fuel and using meth instead of upgrading your fuel system?

On a N/A car, that is the only way I can see you getting the gains you are looking for. Meth isn't necessarily going to give you more power, just allow you to make more power. Look at it as an extra fuel source...

[batlbrandon]

I think you know what the meth is doing. Adding octane and cooling the intake air. But on an N/A set up I don't really think that you are going to be doing that much. You don't have the heat generator of a turbo or S/C to heat up the intake air so you are not getting that big of a benefit. I would say that there is a possibility that you may actually do more harm than good. Meth is very corrosive and will start to eat any aluminum it comes in contact with, secondly it is also washing down your cylinder walls (mixing with your oil and thinning it out). So if you do decide to run it be very careful of how much you are spraying. I would go with a very small nozzle to start and maybe go up from there to see what results you can get. I don't want this to sound too shitty, but sometimes you can't find information on something because it doesn't really work. It may just not produce the results you would think or want. In racing, think about what types of cars run N/A and alcohol as a fuel. what are their set ups? Ultra high compression and revs, and they use it 100% not as an additive. If it worked really well in street set ups you'd probably see a lot more of it. Again not trying to be dick just would hate to see you waste a lot of time and money on an obviously nice car. Good luck! Give us a call if you need dyno time.

[EmminoDaGreat]

If you were running 15:1 compression and didnt want to run Race gas, then yea i could see a benefit.

All Meth is, is a substitute for race gas and its MUCH more corrosive and damaging. Race gas you might lose an 02 sensor every once in awhile. Meth will eat any aluminum including fuel lines, bearings, all kinds of vital engine parts and components.

Using meth doesnt ADD power, if allows you to have a more aggressive tune without the octane additive if that makes sense.

So no, its pointless IMO , you are better off putting C16 in it than Meth

[HiRide]

I understand the capabilties of meth... I will be able to add timing. And yes I have been talking about it. But no one that is using meth, and there are two i know of in the M3 community not here in atlanta, has advanced timing. They are just spraying and have noticed some increase from the auto adapting ECU timing and the cooler air. But no real timing advance. The motor is 11.5 : 1 compression w/ 8100 redline.

I will say, I got the idea as I heard people down in south FL were adding meth to N/A cars especially those that ran track days. I didnt realize meth was so corrosive.. I mean I know it will eat away at rubber but there are so many turbo cars running meth and guzzling it and they are aluminum heads as well. I also had no idea it could get past the rings. I will keep the nozzle small and since I will be using my own meth map for the PWM signal I wont overdo the spray so we can make sure it atomizes well and burns up completely.

Just wanted to see if anyone has really tried. As far as trying for big numbers, not that important... I want to use this system alongside a turbo setup.

I am planning a turbo setup down the road but there are no turbo parts or tuning available for my car. I have managed to figure out how to stop my ECU from making any fuel trims and doing real time tuning via an interceptor piggyback all while keeping emissions.

But I am waiting on fabrication. Until I can ensure the parts can be fabricated, I am just buying the parts I can use now. So I have to take care of tuning, the ECU, and the sensors... Now I have the meth system with failsafe to activate the backup maps, etc...

So the care is pretty much just waiting to have a turbo slapped on it , cometic headgasket, and tuned... But i really want to see what i can do with high octane..

E46 M3 race cars running on standalones make over 400RWHP with no cats, 3in. exhaust, and tuning on race fuel... But they can tune the Dual Vanos.. I cant. I make 321 ish RWHP and want to get to 350 for now. With the turbo and lowered compression I am hoping for 500RWHP pump and 600 RWHP pump+meth... but that will depend on how large a part the vanos plays.

[Vteckidd]

Well how can you advance your timing if you have no ability to tune it? Honest question.

IMO you wont see 20-30whp gains from just an octane increase/meth kit. Thats pretty unreasonable. But if you are eventually going to go turbo, then put it on and let us know what happens.

Like you said, almost no one does it, theres a reason for that. Cant really ask a question if you already know the answer :P

[HiRide]

Well how can you advance your timing if you have no ability to tune it? Honest question.

IMO you wont see 20-30whp gains from just an octane increase/meth kit. Thats pretty unreasonable. But if you are eventually going to go turbo, then put it on and let us know what happens.

Like you said, almost no one does it, there's a reason for that. Cant really ask a question if you already know the answer :P

I can tune via piggyback.. that's one of the things I have figured it out. end-user tuning is not available in the M3 world so no one can flash and even then its not full access flashing no one has been able to do an ECU based turbo system on teh e46 m3. So I did some research, hooked up with a piggyback builder in australia, worked out the specs and now I have real-time tuning with 100% fuel control via injector drivers and timing done via altering crank position signal. Just no control over vanos. But the big thing in the M3 world now is wiring up standalones as piggybacks and retaining full emissions compliance... amazing stuff. I cant figure it out but hopefully I wont have to worry about vanos tuning. I am hoping the stock vanos map might be a good one for a turbo setup?

I just thought that no one had done it in the M3 world, but maybe it would be more common in larger Import scene which is why I asked here. But we will see how it goes. I figured with the 11.5:1 compression, I might see some interesting results. I mean race M3's with stock internals, stock intake, and no cats w/ 3in. exhaust make over close to 500 BHP with standalone and race fuel. Right now I am at around 395 BHP. Hoping to get at least 25 RWHP gain.

[seanrg1116]

there are off the shelf turbo kits for your car but they are $$$$ try googling HPF M3.

[BABY J]

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Naturally-Aspirated-Kits/c25/index.html

[HiRide]

there are off the shelf turbo kits for your car but they are $$$$ try googling HPF M3.

Oh yeah, I know HPF very well. Chris did a great job with those kits, but I just cant afford them and I will always be the kind of person that wants end user tuneability.