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The Ninja
08-24-2009, 08:02 PM
This is a must read article: Here (http://www.pcworld.com/article/170624/10_things_we_hate_about_wireless_carriers.html).



The consumer electronics scene in the U.S. is wonderful and horrible at the same time. The devices, technologies and innovation are wonderful. The provision of wireless access is horrible. U.S. carriers are some of the most backward, unscrupulous and anti-customer companies in the nation.

So, carriers, this column's for you. Here's what I hate about how you do business.

1. You overcharge for service A recent survey (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/what-do-cellphone-users-want-most-cheap-service/) by Nielsen found that low prices for wireless service is the No. 1 thing customers want from carriers. Yet this is exactly what U.S. customers aren't getting. According to a new survey (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Consumers-In-US-Canada-Pay-More-For-Wireless-103905) from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the U.S. is in the top three most expensive countries for wireless service worldwide (Canada and Spain are the others). According to the report, Americans pay an average of $635.85 per year for cell phone service (compared with $131.44 per year in the Netherlands). Why do Americans pay five times more for cell phone service than the Dutch?

2. You're a global laggard in new technologies Dropped calls, lack of service, nonexistent coverage in many rural areas -- the inadequacies of U.S. wireless services are well known. But what really irks mobile enthusiasts is the slow rollouts of new technologies. The most bleeding-edge phones are rarely, if ever, sold in the U.S. In Japan, people are routinely using 4G services, watching TV and using cell phones as credit cards. If U.S. carriers are charging the most for service, why are we getting the least? Why are we always behind?

Sure, you've got a dozen excuses why the U.S. market can't support new technologies the way European and Asian markets do. Making up excuses is something you're really good at. Providing new technology, not so much.

3. Handset discounts are a shell game, not a 'subsidy' Like so many of your standard policies, the subsidizing of cell-phone handsets (and increasingly netbooks and other mobile broadband devices) is presented as a benefit, when it is, in fact, another way to get more money out of us.

If cell phones weren't subsidized, then we'd know how much we're paying for the phone and how much we're paying for wireless services. With the subsidy, we have no idea.

You'd probably pay $599 for a new iPhone 3GS with 16GB of storage. But for eligible customers who sign a new, two-year contract, the subsidized price is $199. Do you think AT&T spreads the $400 difference over the life of your contract? Or is it $600? $800? How much are you paying for that discounted phone? You won't and can't ever know. Subsidies don't save you money. They cost you money. The business model is to prevent you from knowing the price of your handset so you can't make an informed decision.

The truth is that the word "subsidy" doesn't describe the pricing. Nobody is subsidizing your phone. A subsidy is when one organization -- say, the government -- provides money to another organization or person to encourage some form of behavior. Some farmers, for example, get a subsidy from the government to grow certain types of crops. Food stamps for the poor are a subsidy.

When you get a "discount" on your cell phone, YOU pay the difference, not the carrier, not the handset maker. Sure, they'll bury the costs in a muddled monthly bill. But believe me, you're the one paying.

4. You seek new ways to get money for nothing

New York Times columnist David Pogue launched a high-visibility effort (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/the-mandatory-15-second-voicemail-instructions/) last month to address just one of the many ways carriers shamelessly take money away from customers for nothing. Pogue noticed that most of the carriers have mandatory, 15-second voicemail instructions that are played after your own voice-mail message is played. For example, Verizon plays: "At the tone, please record your message. When you have finished recording, you may hang up, or press 1 for more options. To leave a callback number, press 5."

Everyone already knows how to leave a voicemail message. Apple required AT&T to drop the requirement, for example, and somehow iPhone users are still communicating with each other.

Pogue estimates that Verizon, for example, takes $620 million a year away from customers for all the collective "minutes" required to listen to these messages. That's just one carrier, and just one example of how carriers make money by optimizing what they call Average Revenue Per User (ARPU).

Another example is SMS. On average, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint Nextel and T-Mobile rates for sending SMS messages have doubled over the past three years. It costs carriers about one penny to send each SMS message, but some now charge customers about 20 cents. During this three-year period, the cost to carriers to deliver SMS messages most likely stayed the same or declined, but all four carriers doubled their rates. I believe the most likely reason for the price increases was to persuade customers to choose all-you-can-eat bundled deals, which tend to cost about $20 extra per month.

And yet another example is the charging of minutes for both parties for each call. In Europe, the caller pays minutes for the call, and the receiver pays nothing. In the U.S., both caller and callee pay.

Carriers employ experts to examine all the angles to figure out which combination of bundles and packages and pricing will extract the most money from each customer. It's not about charging more money for better service. It's about charging more money for the same service.

5. You want to lock me in

Remember when we could sign up for a one-year contract? Why did carriers eliminate that option? The reason is that locking in customers for two years is twice as good for the carriers as one year. They make more on early-termination fees. They get to create the illusion of lower monthly prices by spreading the cost of a handset discount across 24, rather than 12, months.

Carriers collude with handset makers to artificially link handsets to specific carriers. The iPhone on AT&T is one such example of collusion, as is the Palm Pre on Sprint and the G1 on T-Mobile. Carriers and handset makers create these fake limitations for precisely the same reason movie theaters don't let you bring in your own food -- because it creates mini-monopolies that enable gouging on prices. Why do you think 10 cents worth of popcorn costs $4.50 at the megaplex?

In some European countries, this practice is considered anticompetitive and is against the law.

6. You aggressively oppose net neutrality The degree to which carriers want to reject net neutrality, which is little more than fair and equal Internet access, was revealed this month when AT&T and Verizon (and Comcast) rejected $4.7 billions in grants (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136675/Large_broadband_providers_pass_up_stimulus_funding ) -- not loans, grants! -- in government stimulus money because they stipulated fairness in the provision of services.

Why would corporations reject free money? Because they've reasoned that they'll make more than $4.7 billion from you and me by rejecting the fair, equitable provision of mobile broadband services.

7. You want to lock out competition I don't know if it was AT&T, Apple or both that decided that the Google Voice app should be banned (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136164/FCC_probes_Apple_s_rejection_of_Google_Voice_for_i Phone) from the iTunes store, but locking out services that threaten total control is standard operating procedure in the U.S.. wireless carrier industry. Competition and innovation is the last thing carriers want. So they use their ownership of the wireless pipes to block the applications and services that would need to move through those pipes.

8. Your solution to public opposition is more lobbying As the public becomes increasingly outraged at the carriers' unethical, shameless and anticompetitive actions, their response is not to improve behavior, but to spend customers' money on hiring lobbyists to influence Congress and the White House. In a recession, when companies are cutting back and laying off workers, both AT&T and Verizon are increasing the millions (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125003143192224021.html) spent on hiring lobbyists to influence the government.

9. You're growing too powerful With nearly every netbook, smartbook, eBook reader, GPS device, digital camera and wristwatch poised to potentially support mobile broadband wireless connectivity, the carriers are positioning themselves to seize control of the consumer electronics industry. They want to become the electronics superstores, extending their abusive business model beyond cell phones to encompass every future device with a wireless connection.

10. You've forgotten that we own the airwaves Cell phone carriers have rights, too. They own the towers and the servers that make wireless voice and data connectivity possible. They have the right to use their capital as they please, charge what they like and offer whatever combination of prices and services that the market will bear.

But all that equipment is useless without access to the airwaves, which are by law owned by the people. And that's what makes the wireless carriers business different from other industries. Companies that are granted licenses to use the publicly owned airwaves should be required by our government to meet certain standards of fairness, equal access and competitiveness. That's not happening right now. It's time to let your state and national politicians (http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml) know that you want this industry reined in.

All the shit they do is so shady and sketch it pisses me off. I know other markets do shady/sketch shit too, but this market is the one that I'm in and that matters the most to me right now.



There is a profitable business model that satisfies its customers as well as provides a fair and equal yet competitive market. Why the fuck haven't we been able to "find" this model? Because there is an easier/faster/cheaper way to do it, rape the customer.

I only highlighted a few points which truly disturbed me.

The Ninja
08-24-2009, 08:45 PM
Really? No comments? Wheres Echo and his epic cliffs when you need them??!

DownSouthGB
08-24-2009, 08:53 PM
AT&T treats me pretty well.

TIGERJC
08-24-2009, 09:20 PM
Dont use a cellphone


send smoke signals

Kasper
08-24-2009, 09:33 PM
Every word of this is so damn true.. Its so messed up that they charge you sooo much for something like text messages, its really funny. i get asian people that come in and ive seen them on there phone. and its nothing like i have ever seen before. and its just like "dude is that a new phone" and there just like "no ive had this for like 8 months now!" shit pisses me off! cause they always got the pimp shit! and its not like we can just order that phone over seas and then have it hooked up on our plans. its damn shady! i hope that there able to do something soon. cause all these big companies are getting way outa fucken hand with there shit.lets give a bail out to a bank so there VP can get a 7 million dollar bonus! and let the phone companies make a few billion dollars fuck it lets give them a bail out! im sure there gonna need more bonus money! get the fuck outa here!

SampaGuy
08-24-2009, 09:39 PM
AT&T treats me pretty well.


obviously you didnt read any of that lol

DownSouthGB
08-24-2009, 09:45 PM
obviously you didnt read any of that lol
I skimmed it lol.

ironchef
08-24-2009, 10:01 PM
Really? No comments? Wheres Echo and his epic cliffs when you need them??!Are you honestly asking for any kind of intelligent comments from the WL?

JConner
08-25-2009, 11:46 AM
I work for one of the major carriers. These companies are running a business in a capitalist society and I see nothing wrong with any of the policies (yes I even had these thoughts before I ever worked in the industry). A lot of my customers act like our business should be some kind of charity! They come in and tell me exactly what the customer before them did..."ive been with ******* for 50000000 years paying $200 a month and you want me to pay for a new phone?"

If you don't like it, disconnect your service and get a home phone. A cell phone is not a necessity. Hell, I get customers that will come in and drop $400 on a cell phone and bitch about how they cant afford the rent to the friend with them.

Capitalism at work, you want Obama to attempt to run these businesses too?

stillaneon
08-25-2009, 12:17 PM
A lot of this is useless ranting.

I agree that things don't seem fair, but it's the way it is.

Not trying to start an argument, but what's the point in writing an article about it when it isn;t even all that well informed.

osiriskidd
08-25-2009, 12:45 PM
A lot of this is useless ranting.

I agree that things don't seem fair, but it's the way it is.

Not trying to start an argument, but what's the point in writing an article about it when it isn;t even all that well informed.
exactly.

you don't NEED a cell phone.
you don't NEED to buy a new phone every 2 years.
These people are just running a business how they see fit.
honestly, if i owned a major business, i'd want all the money from the consumers as i could squeeze out. truthfully speaking.

Atlblkz06
08-25-2009, 12:45 PM
Supply of change comes from demand of change. As you can see everyone is very comfortable paying 100 bucks for their iphone with shitty service.

No demand, no supply.

Atlblkz06
08-25-2009, 12:47 PM
exactly.

you don't NEED a cell phone.
you don't NEED to buy a new phone every 2 years.
These people are just running a business how they see fit.
honestly, if i owned a major business, i'd want all the money from the consumers as i could squeeze out. truthfully speaking.

Umm yes I absolutely need a cell phone. You must be a student or something.

osiriskidd
08-25-2009, 12:54 PM
Umm yes I absolutely need a cell phone. You must be a student or something.

you may think that simply because it makes your life so much easier.

DownSouthGB
08-25-2009, 12:56 PM
exactly.

you don't NEED a cell phone.
you don't NEED to buy a new phone every 2 years.
These people are just running a business how they see fit.
honestly, if i owned a major business, i'd want all the money from the consumers as i could squeeze out. truthfully speaking.
Speak for yourself lol. I bet you have a phone.

stillaneon
08-25-2009, 12:57 PM
The consumer electronics scene in the U.S. is wonderful and horrible at the same time. The devices, technologies and innovation are wonderful. The provision of wireless access is horrible. U.S. carriers are some of the most backward, unscrupulous and anti-customer companies in the nation.

So, carriers, this column's for you. Here's what I hate about how you do business.


1. You overcharge for service A recent survey (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/what-do-cellphone-users-want-most-cheap-service/) by Nielsen found that low prices for wireless service is the No. 1 thing customers want from carriers. Yet this is exactly what U.S. customers aren't getting. According to a new survey (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Consumers-In-US-Canada-Pay-More-For-Wireless-103905) from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the U.S. is in the top three most expensive countries for wireless service worldwide (Canada and Spain are the others). According to the report, Americans pay an average of $635.85 per year for cell phone service (compared with $131.44 per year in the Netherlands). Why do Americans pay five times more for cell phone service than the Dutch?

They pay five times more so they can pay 15 times less for the equipment. A blackberry curve in China marketed at 765 US a month ago while most carriers are selling them for 50 bucks or so after mail in rebate. You say that low monthly service is what they want, yet customers bitch about the price of equipment.


Sure, you've got a dozen excuses why the U.S. market can't support new technologies the way European and Asian markets do. Making up excuses is something you're really good at. Providing new technology, not so much.

What exactly is WiMAX. But then again the only two countries in Asia that have launched this service are Pakistan and India.


3. Handset discounts are a shell game, not a 'subsidy' Like so many of your standard policies, the subsidizing of cell-phone handsets (and increasingly netbooks and other mobile broadband devices) is presented as a benefit, when it is, in fact, another way to get more money out of us.

Bullshit


If cell phones weren't subsidized, then we'd know how much we're paying for the phone and how much we're paying for wireless services. With the subsidy, we have no idea.[?QUOTE]

You just said it wasn't a subsidy. Which is it

[QUOTE]You'd probably pay $599 for a new iPhone 3GS with 16GB of storage. But for eligible customers who sign a new, two-year contract, the subsidized price is $199. Do you think AT&T spreads the $400 difference over the life of your contract? Or is it $600? $800? How much are you paying for that discounted phone? You won't and can't ever know. Subsidies don't save you money. They cost you money. The business model is to prevent you from knowing the price of your handset so you can't make an informed decision.

The truth is that the word "subsidy" doesn't describe the pricing. Nobody is subsidizing your phone. A subsidy is when one organization -- say, the government -- provides money to another organization or person to encourage some form of behavior. Some farmers, for example, get a subsidy from the government to grow certain types of crops. Food stamps for the poor are a subsidy.

The truth is that if we used the same procedures as the world market, we would have one basic service and all your phones would cost 500+ dollars. It takes 18 months for a cell phone company to recover the money lost by subsidizing a cell phone. But how many of you want to pay 900 for that iPhone?


When you get a "discount" on your cell phone, YOU pay the difference, not the carrier, not the handset maker. Sure, they'll bury the costs in a muddled monthly bill. But believe me, you're the one paying.

And why shouldn't you? You can always buy a cell phone without extending a contract. I'll sell you a new Blackberry without a contract for $569. That is still 200 bucks cheaper than you would pay in Japan.


4. You seek new ways to get money for nothing

New York Times columnist David Pogue launched a high-visibility effort (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/the-mandatory-15-second-voicemail-instructions/) last month to address just one of the many ways carriers shamelessly take money away from customers for nothing. Pogue noticed that most of the carriers have mandatory, 15-second voicemail instructions that are played after your own voice-mail message is played. For example, Verizon plays: "At the tone, please record your message. When you have finished recording, you may hang up, or press 1 for more options. To leave a callback number, press 5."

Everyone already knows how to leave a voicemail message. Apple required AT&T to drop the requirement, for example, and somehow iPhone users are still communicating with each other.

Pogue estimates that Verizon, for example, takes $620 million a year away from customers for all the collective "minutes" required to listen to these messages. That's just one carrier, and just one example of how carriers make money by optimizing what they call Average Revenue Per User (ARPU).

If you aren;t smart enough to press a number when the recording starts to prevent listening to this message, then you deserve to have an extra minute of your time taken.


Another example is SMS. On average, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint Nextel and T-Mobile rates for sending SMS messages have doubled over the past three years. It costs carriers about one penny to send each SMS message, but some now charge customers about 20 cents. During this three-year period, the cost to carriers to deliver SMS messages most likely stayed the same or declined, but all four carriers doubled their rates. I believe the most likely reason for the price increases was to persuade customers to choose all-you-can-eat bundled deals, which tend to cost about $20 extra per month.

Well if you take in the fact that someone had to program a computer that the cell phone company had to purchase to keep track of the messages you went over, then they have to print it on an extra piece of paper with extra ink. then pay someone an hourly wage to sit and listen to you bitch because you can't keep up with your messages, of coure they are going to charge you more.


And yet another example is the charging of minutes for both parties for each call. In Europe, the caller pays minutes for the call, and the receiver pays nothing. In the U.S., both caller and callee pay.

Because again, you have multiple carriers and networks. But you can see that all networks offer a mobile to mobile discount.


Carriers employ experts to examine all the angles to figure out which combination of bundles and packages and pricing will extract the most money from each customer. It's not about charging more money for better service. It's about charging more money for the same service.

It's not the same service. You will either add or lose features based on your monthly plan.


5. You want to lock me in

Remember when we could sign up for a one-year contract? Why did carriers eliminate that option? The reason is that locking in customers for two years is twice as good for the carriers as one year. They make more on early-termination fees. They get to create the illusion of lower monthly prices by spreading the cost of a handset discount across 24, rather than 12, months.

you can still get 1 year contract. but it isn;t advertised, because you can pay 375 (after MIR) for a blackberry with a 1 year contract or 50 (after MIR) for a 2 year contract. Who wouldn't sign an extra year to pay 225 less?


Carriers collude with handset makers to artificially link handsets to specific carriers. The iPhone on AT&T is one such example of collusion, as is the Palm Pre on Sprint and the G1 on T-Mobile. Carriers and handset makers create these fake limitations for precisely the same reason movie theaters don't let you bring in your own food -- because it creates mini-monopolies that enable gouging on prices. Why do you think 10 cents worth of popcorn costs $4.50 at the megaplex?

In some European countries, this practice is considered anticompetitive and is against the law.

Move to Europe. You notice that there are companies that go out of their way to try and unsubsidize phone service, i.e. Metro PCS. And their service area sucks. They have to roam constantly on Verizon, Alltell and Sprint Towers and you have to pay extra to go out of the local service area.


6. You aggressively oppose net neutrality The degree to which carriers want to reject net neutrality, which is little more than fair and equal Internet access, was revealed this month when AT&T and Verizon (and Comcast) rejected $4.7 billions in grants (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136675/Large_broadband_providers_pass_up_stimulus_funding ) -- not loans, grants! -- in government stimulus money because they stipulated fairness in the provision of services.

Why would corporations reject free money? Because they've reasoned that they'll make more than $4.7 billion from you and me by rejecting the fair, equitable provision of mobile broadband services.

And is it not their right? Just like it is your right to choose a different service provider


7. You want to lock out competition I don't know if it was AT&T, Apple or both that decided that the Google Voice app should be banned (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136164/FCC_probes_Apple_s_rejection_of_Google_Voice_for_i Phone)from the iTunes store, but locking out services that threaten total control is standard operating procedure in the U.S.. wireless carrier industry. Competition and innovation is the last thing carriers want. So they use their ownership of the wireless pipes to block the applications and services that would need to move through those pipes.

8. Your solution to public opposition is more lobbying As the public becomes increasingly outraged at the carriers' unethical, shameless and anticompetitive actions, their response is not to improve behavior, but to spend customers' money on hiring lobbyists to influence Congress and the White House. In a recession, when companies are cutting back and laying off workers, both AT&T and Verizon are increasing the millions (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125003143192224021.html) spent on hiring lobbyists to influence the government.

9. You're growing too powerful With nearly every netbook, smartbook, eBook reader, GPS device, digital camera and wristwatch poised to potentially support mobile broadband wireless connectivity, the carriers are positioning themselves to seize control of the consumer electronics industry. They want to become the electronics superstores, extending their abusive business model beyond cell phones to encompass every future device with a wireless connection.

It is every companies goal to reduce competition. Don't be pissed at the cell phone companies for becoming powerful. Be pissed at yourself and the other consumers for putting such a high priority on cell phones and other mobile devices.


10. You've forgotten that we own the airwaves Cell phone carriers have rights, too. They own the towers and the servers that make wireless voice and data connectivity possible. They have the right to use their capital as they please, charge what they like and offer whatever combination of prices and services that the market will bear.

But all that equipment is useless without access to the airwaves, which are by law owned by the people. And that's what makes the wireless carriers business different from other industries. Companies that are granted licenses to use the publicly owned airwaves should be required by our government to meet certain standards of fairness, equal access and competitiveness. That's not happening right now. It's time to let your state and national politicians (http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml) know that you want this industry reined in.And all those airwaves are useless without the equipment.

When it comes down to it, This article is filled with punctual and spelling errors and is completely un informed. I actually started getting bored with responding to the statements because it seemed pointless. hopefully not everyone believes this bullshit....

osiriskidd
08-25-2009, 12:58 PM
Speak for yourself lol. I bet you have a phone.

i do. but it's simple needs/wants.

stillaneon
08-25-2009, 12:59 PM
exactly.

you don't NEED a cell phone.
you don't NEED to buy a new phone every 2 years.
These people are just running a business how they see fit.
honestly, if i owned a major business, i'd want all the money from the consumers as i could squeeze out. truthfully speaking.

You say need...

In today's world, I NEED a cellphone. if we were still in the early nineties, I wouldn't. Sure I could probably get by without one. But why would I try.

DownSouthGB
08-25-2009, 01:01 PM
i do. but it's simple needs/wants.
So yeaaaaa. It's kind of like I don't need an iPhone but I want one. I feel ya lol.:cheers:

DownSouthGB
08-25-2009, 01:02 PM
You say need...

In today's world, I NEED a cellphone. if we were still in the early nineties, I wouldn't. Sure I could probably get by without one. But why would I try.
Pagers lol.

stillaneon
08-25-2009, 01:05 PM
Pagers lol.

Still a wireless device

1SICKLEX
08-25-2009, 01:33 PM
Great thread!

vkash1208
08-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Dont use a cellphone


send smoke signals

i still use my messenger pigeon when ever my crackberry's battery dies.

VooDooXII
08-25-2009, 11:38 PM
Remember when AT&T Wireless became Cingular? We were all forced to buy new devices for no apparent reason.