The 'unfathomable' arrest of a black scholar

[One_Bad_SHO]

Does this have anything to do with Race?
NO. Black ppl need to stop throwing around the race card like big fucking babies. The era of white-guilt ended when Obama was elected (by a larger majority of whites). There is always going to be racism towards EVERY race, in EVERY country. The African-Americans that always cry "race!" are truly the racist ones. - One_Bad_Sho



ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Boris Kodjoe owns a mansion in Atlanta. But when he goes to answer his door, the black actor knows what it's like to be an outcast.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/art.gates.demotix.jpg Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested last week on a charge of disorderly conduct.








var CNN_ArticleChanger = new CNN_imageChanger('cnnImgChngr','/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/imgChng/p1-0.init.exclude.html',2,1); //CNN.imageChanger.load('cnnImgChngr','imgChng/p1-0.exclude.html'); "When I'm opening the door of my own house, someone will ask me where the man of the house is, implying that I'm staff," said Kodjoe, best known for starring in Showtime's "Soul Food." (They don't recognize him in his own house, so how is a neighbor supposed to?) - SHO


It's a feeling some African-Americans say is all too common, even to this day in America: No matter your status or prominence in society, you're still typecast. That's why the recent arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr., one of the nation's most prominent African-American scholars, has stirred outrage and debate.

Jelani Cobb, an author and professor at Spelman College in Atlanta, says it's troubling on many levels when "one of the most recognizable African-Americans in the country can be arrested in his own home and have to justify being in his own home." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch arrest of a Harvard scholar » (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

"It's really kind of unfathomable," Cobb said. "If it can happen to him, yeah, it can happen to any of us."

That's a sentiment echoed by Jimi Izrael. "If a mild-mannered, bespectacled Ivy League professor who walks with a cane can be pulled from his own home and arrested on a minor charge, the rest of us don't stand a chance," Izrael wrote Tuesday on The Root, an online magazine with commentary from a variety of black perspectives that's co-founded by Gates.

"We all fit a description. We are all suspects."

In an interview with The Root, Gates said he was outraged by the incident and hopes to use the experience as a teaching tool, including a possible PBS special on racial profiling (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/racial_issues).

"I can't believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I'm astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race," Gates said. "And I'm deeply resolved to do and say the right things so that this cannot happen again." Voices of black America: What it's like being black in America (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2009/black.in.america/voices/)

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_TL.gifGates was arrested last Thursday in broad daylight at his Cambridge, Massachusetts, home for disorderly conduct -- what the arresting officer described as "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space." The charge was dropped Tuesday on the recommendation of police, and the city of Cambridge issued a statement calling the incident "regrettable and unfortunate."


Gates had just returned from a trip to China when a police officer responded to a call about a potential break-in at his home that was phoned in by a white woman. According to the police report, Gates was in the foyer when the officer arrived.

The officer asked Gates to "step out onto the porch and speak with me," the report says. "[Gates] replied, 'No, I will not.' He then demanded to know who I was. I told him that I was 'Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police' and that I was 'investigating a report of a break in progress' at the residence.

"While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "

According to the report, Gates initially refused to show the officer his identification, instead asking for the officer's ID. But Gates eventually did show the officer his identification that included his home address.

"The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That's a joke," Gates told The Root. "It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, 'What is your name, and what is your badge number?' and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, 'You're not responding because I'm a black man, and you're a white officer.'"

Known as Skip by friends and colleagues, Gates is the director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African-American Research at Harvard University (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/harvard_university), and an acclaimed PBS documentarian.

While Gates' arrest lit up talk radio and blogs, it prompted others to defend the police against charges of racial profiling.

"I'd be glad if somebody called the police if somebody was breaking into my house," neighbor Michael Schaffer told CNN affiliate WHDH.

For others, the incident symbolized something more. Seeing the police mugshot of Gates brought some African-Americans (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/african_american_issues) to near tears.

Kim Coleman, a Washington radio host, cultural commentator and blogger, said she grew numb when she saw the mugshot.

"I was not prepared for that," she said. "To see one of my heroes in a mugshot was not something that I was expecting. ... It just tells me we're not in a post-racial society."
She said there's a reason why you don't hear about prominent white people arrested in their homes: "because it doesn't happen."

It's time for America to have a long overdue national conversation about race, Coleman said. "When are we going to have that," she said. "When are we really going to sit down and strip down and say, 'This is what I feel about you and this is what you feel about me. Now, how are we going to get over that?' "

Rebecca Walker, an award-winning author, said the arrest was devastating to scholars, writers, and artists "who work so hard to keep a free flow of information."

"It seems eerily ironic Mr. Gates was returning from China, where surveillance is so high and freedom of speech and ideas so curtailed," Walker said. "To see the mugshot of Skip was a blow to all of us who feel some sense of safety based on our work to try to mend all of these broken fences in America -- to make ourselves into people who refuse to be limited by race and class and gender and everything else."

"To end up, at the end of the day, treated like a criminal, unjustly stripped of our accomplishments and contributions even if only for a moment, is profoundly disturbing. We must ask ourselves what it means, and to allow ourselves to face various scenarios regarding power and freedom and how these will intersect in the coming years."

Last week, President Obama spoke at the 100th anniversary of the NAACP, saying that while minorities have made great strides "the pain of discrimination is still felt in America."

"Even as we inherit extraordinary progress that cannot be denied; even as we marvel at the courage and determination of so many plain folks -- we know that too many barriers still remain," the president said.

Kodjoe, the actor, said Obama "has affected a change in people's consciousness regarding such issues as racism and prejudice." But he said the arrest of Gates underscores that there's more work ahead.


"I think we're moving in the right direction. But no doubt, there still is a lot of work to be done," Kodjoe said. "It's not just a problem here. Ita a problem worldwide. Racism is universal."




Gates said he has a newfound understanding of exactly what that means. "There's been a very important symbolic change and that is the election of Barack Obama," he told The Root. "But the only black people who truly live in a post-racial world in America all live in a very nice house on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue."

[One_Bad_SHO]

Share your thoughts/opinions about this. Id I'm wrong, I'd like to be set right by seeing others point of views.

[JITB]

. The era of white-guilt ended when Obama was elected (by a larger majority of whites).




when i read that i stopped reading!...

[81911SC]

Look at his comments. That's fucking stupid.

[81911SC]

when i read that i stopped reading!...Read his quote.

[One_Bad_SHO]

That's how I feel.

A cop gets sent to investigate a possible break-in. He confronts a man at the house and asks for ID. The man refuses. The cop is racist for arresting him. :screwy:

And as for "the era of white guilt is over".... seriously. My great grandparents and their generation may have made bad decisions. Decisions in which I do not agree with. But do I feel guilty about their wrong doings? No. America as a whole has proven to put THAT kind of racism behind us, across the board. As previously stated, there will always be racist people.

I agree with the arrested man when he said: "I think we're moving in the right direction. But no doubt, there still is a lot of work to be done," Kodjoe said. "It's not just a problem here. Ita a problem worldwide. Racism is universal."

[MachNU]

LOL yeah i only got half way through that and knew it was total bullshit. You are right, the only person able to throw around the race card would be someone who was actually a slave or people from the mid 30's and 40's. Like people who where involved with the Watt's Riot and other riots of that time. Past there no one else has the right to try to say its because there black they get treated this way.

What would they have said if it was a black cop that put the cuffs on him?

[preferredduck]

i would bet my house that he did not originally ID himself and pulled the race card from the get go. sadly it's a crutch for some. i actually know a white person that this happened to and when you ID and prove yourself and work with the cop you don't go to jail.

i have heard people at roadblocks refuse to give info to the cops, and guess what they were taken out of their cars and harrased.

This story has been blown out of proportion yet again.

[eraser4g63]

If we are gonna play the race guilt game how about the way the Irish were treated when they came over? Just Saying.... The home owner was in the wrong from the get go by not complying with the LEOs request. This could have been handled with out all this BS and ruckus if he would have identified himself as the LEO asked and complied with the LEOs request.

[ISAtlanta300]

Looks like he had a chip on his shoulder... I mean just tell him you live there and prove it... Then THANK the office for looking out for your house....

[Total_Blender]

Not so much the LEO's fault for profiling as the neighbor's who called it in.

I don't know the details of the story, but how can you be arrested for being "loud in a public space" in your own home? The cops have mistakenly busted in guns drawn on my parents and another time on some friends of mine (goddamn Bartow County must be using MapQuest or something :screwy:). Both times hell was raised at the deputies but nobody got arrested.

[BanginJimmy]

Not so much the LEO's fault for profiling as the neighbor's who called it in.


First paragraph, the guy had been out of the country and just got back. I'm sure he didnt bother to tell his neighbors when he was planning to come and go either. IMO, the only person in the wrong here is the guy that got arrested. Then of course you have the PD playing guilty by immediately dropping the charges.


I don't know the details of the story, but how can you be arrested for being "loud in a public space" in your own home?

Cop was outside the house, that is all it takes.




The cops have mistakenly busted in guns drawn on my parents and another time on some friends of mine (goddamn Bartow County must be using MapQuest or something :screwy:). Both times hell was raised at the deputies but nobody got arrested.

Its a judgment call either way. Some cops are nicer than others. I can assure you though, not many cops are going to play nice while being called a racist just for doing their job.

Just try getting out of a ticket by claiming the only reason you got pulled over is because of your race. This only applies if the cop is of a different race obviously.

[BanginJimmy]

Jelani Cobb, an author and professor at Spelman College in Atlanta, says it's troubling on many levels when "one of the most recognizable African-Americans in the country can be arrested in his own home and have to justify being in his own home."

I am willing to bet that not a single person here can describe this guy without seeing a pic first. I would imagine that also applies to the cop.

[Vteckidd]

I dont know all the facts but from what i gather

1) Man was picking his own lock to get in his house
2) Neighbor called in a possible burglary because a man was PICKING A LOCK TO GET INTO A HOUSE
3) Cops respond doing their job, and ask man for identification.
4) Man refuses at first and asks Police officer for badge number and name
5) Man finally identifies himself and calls officer racist
6) Officer arrests man for "disorderly conduct"

Sounds about right to me. Only person that played the race card was the Harvard Professor

[eraser4g63]

^^ Amazing how this Great Scholarly african american can become an ignorant Fuck in 1 second flat. It is ridiculous that the race card is still even pulled, the only reason this occurs as often as it does ( its because I am black shit) is because people like this keep setting their own race back 50 years via their actions.

[preferredduck]

I am willing to bet that not a single person here can describe this guy without seeing a pic first. I would imagine that also applies to the cop.

i have never seen this guy before. you should see what they are saying on the obama forum(you guys really need to check that site out it's a hoot), basically they are blowing out of proportion. i need to show them the picture because the one posted clearly shows a black cop right there in front of him and the way the media portrays it all white cops showed up. i need to post that pic up there. and clearly in the picture you can tell he is still running his mouth in handcuffs.

[P-town-zenki]

link to obama forum?


either way the man that got arrested was acting like a duesche for no reason

[stephen]

Share your thoughts/opinions about this. Id I'm wrong, I'd like to be set right by seeing others point of views.

i'll give you another point of view (with no intentions on "setting you right").

before touching on the whole "race card" deal...i kind of feel sorry for the dude being in that situation in the first place. think about it....you come home from a trip to china (which was probably more of a business trip, and no telling how the jet-lag affected this man who is in his 50's), and now you can't get your front door open. you finally manage to get into your house, to now be greeted by a police officer (and plenty more waiting outside). mind you...this is an ELDERLY man who walks with a cane, who now has to prove he's not a criminal breaking into his own home.

in that respect, i can understand the man being a little "on edge" and giving the officer a hard time. I'M NOT saying that was the right thing to do, but as a human being, it's something i can relate to and understand. i'm sure PLENTY of people would've gotten "loud and tumultuous" too...black, white, asian, alien, whatever.

as far as the "race card" deal goes...i learned A LONG TIME AGO how i should act in the company of the police, as a black man. there a stereotypes out there that i just DON'T want to be associated with. in this man's case...this was the SECOND time he was approached by police ON CAMPUS because he fit the description of a "robber." so yeeeeaaah...here you have a man who is a BLACK SCHOLAR, PROFESSOR at harvard, and yet...still can't seem to avoid this oh so wonderful description of "HARVARD'S INFAMOUS BLACK ROBBER."

anyhow...this cop figured he'd teach dude a lesson for implying he's racist, and now gates is making "an example" out of him for anyone else in harvard's police department who thinks that 50yr old (58 to be exact), cane yielding, black men have resorted to kicking in front doors and robbing people on campus.

[Total_Blender]

I can't believe the ignorance of someone saying "because of Obama being elected, there is no more racism". What a crock of shit, you might as well throw a "you people" in there with it :crazy:. Just because one Black man makes it to the top, does not mean that opportunity improves across the board for all Black people. There are still inequalities in education, access to healthcare and social services, etc. It is meaningful as a symbol and an example, but when it comes down to brass tacks, racism is still a very real problem in America (for all races, including Blacks). Barack Obama is the exception moreso than the rule.

Some on this board have hair triggers when it comes to "reverse racism" against White people. Really guys, put the shoe on the other foot and imagine yourself as a Black person living in a 600 year legacy of slavery, exploitation, lynchings, discrimination and disenfranchisement. Racism, and the scars left from it will take generations to heal.

[preferredduck]

link to obama forum?


either way the man that got arrested was acting like a duesche for no reason

http://theobamaforum.com/showthread.php?t=11711

here is a link to the post. check out the rest of the site because they say repeatedly that they want to kill white people and that is sick as hell.

[Total_Blender]

http://theobamaforum.com/showthread.php?t=11711

here is a link to the post. check out the rest of the site because they say repeatedly that they want to kill white people and that is sick as hell.

I bet there are threads on this on Stormfront too. Just saying. :crazy:

[preferredduck]

I can't believe the ignorance of someone saying "because of Obama being elected, there is no more racism". What a crock of shit, you might as well throw a "you people" in there with it :crazy:. Just because one Black man makes it to the top, does not mean that opportunity improves across the board for all Black people. There are still inequalities in education, access to healthcare and social services, etc. It is meaningful as a symbol and an example, but when it comes down to brass tacks, racism is still a very real problem in America (for all races, including Blacks). Barack Obama is the exception moreso than the rule.

Some on this board have hair triggers when it comes to "reverse racism" against White people. Really guys, put the shoe on the other foot and imagine yourself as a Black person living in a 600 year legacy of slavery, exploitation, lynchings, discrimination and disenfranchisement. Racism, and the scars left from it will take generations to heal.

i have put the shoes on the other foot and i hate to say it but slavery is a lame ass excuse. EVERY RACE ON THIS PLANET HAS BEEN A SLAVE AT SOME POINT IN HISTORY, so who do we complain to if we were descendants of roman slaves, and my understanding is they did not whip or lynch you when you get out of line it's more like off with his head. so think about that. also on a side note americans did not just go round em up from the bush in africa, they were all sold by tribal leaders to white men so there were two wrongs, not just one.

2nd, when i hear about black kids being uneducated because of a white system i call BS again. maybe 50 years ago that would be a problem but i would have to blame the parents, or even rap music. on black in america 2 last night guess how many parents showed up to PTO meetings in a 270 student school. . .15 total so where the hell are the parents. every black person i went to school with had the same chances i did of graduating, but instead they dropped out and sold drugs which is in alot of rap music and this is not a joke. they are told wealth etc can be made quick bein g a thug i guess. so when you say education inequalities i call BS. i know some places are prob that way but you can thank state funding, parents and other factors for this, not racism because most tax payers $ goes for their education.

3rd, healthcare. medicaid only pays like 3% of what the procedure really costs where private insurance pays 50% roughly so it's a no brainer that in some cases medicaid patients are treated like crap. and i have a white friend who went through this after losing his leg, buttcheeck, and broken back. i am white and currently have no insurance but i have a pinched nerve in my neck so who do i complain to, can i say it's racist. no because i am white.

4th social programs. dont get me started here because i could really use medicaid at the moment for trigger point injections so im not in pain all day. but guess what i cannot get it no matter what my Dr says or what i try. a few years ago i worked for world finance and some younger black people came in for a loan. after telling them my head hurt and why he said i could get medicaid and disiability like he does. he said he went in and told them his anti-depression meds made it where he cannot work and bingo he has benfits. well i take oxycodone, valium, and soma every day of my life and this will not work for me i have tried it.

i can see issues with education in inner city school systems but again on black in america 2 last night where were the parents, the principal was picking up kids for school. also the 600 year figure is more like300 years tops. egypt also had slaves thousands of years ago and they were middle easterns, but you dont see them asking egypt for $ and saying they were kept down by egyptians.

another thing i don't get. my mother works for the gov't, she has black co-workers who make the same money she does and is also married with a 2nd income. if they have equal things from the get go them why does this lady live in a rough neighborhood and how is she "kept down" as she says. this lady has also been caught stealing supplies and falsly writing her clock out times and has been caught and gets no punishment at all. no write up, nothing. another thing is you have a family living in a HUD home or in a bad neighborhood yet their car in the driveway costs two times as much as the house and they spent 10 grand on the rims alone, so what gives here. this is not always true but i do see it alot and of course they get foodstamps, medicaid, etc. im not trying to be mean but i have seen enough BS on this subject and can only scratch my head. my girlfiend and i could really use some food stamps for her 2 kids but again we don't get help at all.

[preferredduck]

i'll give you another point of view (with no intentions on "setting you right").

before touching on the whole "race card" deal...i kind of feel sorry for the dude being in that situation in the first place. think about it....you come home from a trip to china (which was probably more of a business trip, and no telling how the jet-lag affected this man who is in his 50's), and now you can't get your front door open. you finally manage to get into your house, to now be greeted by a police officer (and plenty more waiting outside). mind you...this is an ELDERLY man who walks with a cane, who now has to prove he's not a criminal breaking into his own home.

in that respect, i can understand the man being a little "on edge" and giving the officer a hard time. I'M NOT saying that was the right thing to do, but as a human being, it's something i can relate to and understand. i'm sure PLENTY of people would've gotten "loud and tumultuous" too...black, white, asian, alien, whatever.

as far as the "race card" deal goes...i learned A LONG TIME AGO how i should act in the company of the police, as a black man. there a stereotypes out there that i just DON'T want to be associated with. in this man's case...this was the SECOND time he was approached by police ON CAMPUS because he fit the description of a "robber." so yeeeeaaah...here you have a man who is a BLACK SCHOLAR, PROFESSOR at harvard, and yet...still can't seem to avoid this oh so wonderful description of "HARVARD'S INFAMOUS BLACK ROBBER."

anyhow...this cop figured he'd teach dude a lesson for implying he's racist, and now gates is making "an example" out of him for anyone else in harvard's police department who thinks that 50yr old (58 to be exact), cane yielding, black men have resorted to kicking in front doors and robbing people on campus.


if this was the 2nd time this happened to him i can understand him being frustrated, but he should be polite to the cop making sure his house isn't being robbed. after a friend of mine several years ago called a cop a dike bitch and we were all arrested i have always respected the cops. i know my rights but i do show ID on who i am etc and they have kept me on the side of 85 for an hour at 10 at night for no reason, but i was nice and was able to drive away. if he said anything out of line it was prob used against him and that applies to everyone. just watch a few episodes of cops and this is true for any race.

[preferredduck]

I bet there are threads on this on Stormfront too. Just saying. :crazy:

i never have been to stormfron but im sure it goes both ways. here is a link to a great story that never made the national media and it should. this should shed some light on the obama forum posts too.

http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html

Akron police say they aren't ready to call it a hate crime or a gang initiation.

But to Marty Marshall, his wife and two kids, it seems pretty clear.

It came after a family night of celebrating America and freedom with a fireworks show at Firestone Stadium. Marshall, his family and two friends were gathered outside a friend's home in South Akron.

Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.

The Marshalls, who are white, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.

''This was almost like being a terrorist act,'' Marshall said. ''And we allow this to go on in our neighborhoods?''

They said it started when one teen, without any words or warning, blindsided and assaulted Marshall's friend as he stood outside with the others.

When Marshall, 39, jumped in, he found himself being attacked by the growing group of teens.

His daughter, Rachel, 15, who weighs about 90 pounds, tried to come to his rescue. The teens pushed her to the ground.

His wife, Yvonne, pushed their son, Donald, 14, into bushes to keep him protected.

''My thing is,'' Marshall said, ''I didn't want this, but I was in fear for my wife, my kids and my friends. I felt I had to stay out there to protect them, because those guys were just jumping, swinging fists and everything.

''I'm lucky. They didn't break my ribs or bruise my ribs. I thank God, they concentrated on my thick head because I do have one. They were trying to take my head off my spine, basically.''

After several minutes of punches and kicks, the attack ended and the group ran off. The Marshalls' two adult male friends were not seriously hurt.

''I don't think I thought at that moment when I tried to jump in,'' Rachel Marshall said. ''But when I was laying on the ground, I was just scared.''

Marshall was the most seriously injured. He suffered a concussion and multiple bruises to his head and eye. He said he spent five nights in the critical care unit at Akron General Medical Center.

The construction worker said he now fears for his family's safety, and the thousands of dollars in medical bills he faces without insurance.

''I knew I was going to get beat, but not as bad as I did,'' Marshall said. ''But I did it to protect my family. I didn't have a choice. There was no need for this. We should be all getting along. But to me, it seems to be racist.''

Akron police are investigating. Right now, the case is not being classified as a racial hate crime. There were no other reports of victims assaulted by the group that night.

The department's gang unit is involved in the investigation, police said.

''We don't know if it's a known gang, or just a group of kids,'' police Lt. Rick Edwards said.

The Marshalls say they fear retaliation at home or when they go outside. They are considering arming themselves, but they're concerned about the possible problems that come with guns.

For now, they are hoping police can bring them suspects. They believe they can identify several of the attackers.

''This makes you think about your freedom,'' Marshall said. ''In all reality, where is your freedom when you have this going on?''

[tony]

Are you black? Then how the fuck can you speak on what black people face?

[tony]

I can't believe the ignorance of someone saying "because of Obama being elected, there is no more racism". What a crock of shit, you might as well throw a "you people" in there with it :crazy:. Just because one Black man makes it to the top, does not mean that opportunity improves across the board for all Black people. There are still inequalities in education, access to healthcare and social services, etc. It is meaningful as a symbol and an example, but when it comes down to brass tacks, racism is still a very real problem in America (for all races, including Blacks). Barack Obama is the exception moreso than the rule.

Some on this board have hair triggers when it comes to "reverse racism" against White people. Really guys, put the shoe on the other foot and imagine yourself as a Black person living in a 600 year legacy of slavery, exploitation, lynchings, discrimination and disenfranchisement. Racism, and the scars left from it will take generations to heal.

You know what, I'm going to speak to you and Stephen cause other MF's on here are not going to pick up what I'm dropping. *If you're white and we're friends, don't take this personally, I don't "hate" a group just the dumb asses who think along the lines of shit that has been said in here which is a majority of you dumb asses that have half a brain cell when it comes to social stratification.

Back to what I was saying. A lot of these idiots don't understand, they act like Obama is the golden egg and the end all be all to racism. They don't understand what its like to search your ancestory and you can't cause anything past your grandparents was not allowed to be counted by the census bureau. Slavery has no effect on the state of blacks today but i guarantee not one of them know what Slave codes are. If they did they would know that slaves were not allowed to own property or land OR be educated. An entire race was not allowed to educate their selves while their white counterparts benefited from their labor, oppression for 400 years and barely even 2 generations later everything is supposed to be okay.

I could go sooo much further than this but it would be useless. I'll call it like I see it, a lot of the bullshit I see here is nothing more than the fear of the dominant culture losing their status as such. This is one of the few forums where people can get away with such BS because more and more its becoming unacceptable in society. But you know what, I know someone who thinks so ignorantly would never go very far in life anyway.

And on the topic, the man was arrested for disorderly conduct in his own home. I'm sorry, if you're a cop or not you will NOT come into my home and question me on shit unwarranted. 4th Amendment.. and if dude was so wrong the dumb ass cops wouldn't have dropped the charges.

Until you're black and walk in those shoes don't say shit about what black people go through.

[preferredduck]

You know what, I'm going to speak to you and Stephen cause other MF's on here are not going to pick up what I'm dropping. *If you're white and we're friends, don't take this personally, I don't "hate" a group just the dumb asses who think along the lines of shit that has been said in here which is a majority of you dumb asses that have half a brain cell when it comes to social stratification.

Back to what I was saying. A lot of these idiots don't understand, they act like Obama is the golden egg and the end all be all to racism. They don't understand what its like to search your ancestory and you can't cause anything past your grandparents was not allowed to be counted by the census bureau. Slavery has no effect on the state of blacks today but i guarantee not one of them know what Slave codes are. If they did they would know that slaves were not allowed to own property or land OR be educated. An entire race was not allowed to educate their selves while their white counterparts benefited from their labor, oppression for 400 years and barely even 2 generations later everything is supposed to be okay.

I could go sooo much further than this but it would be useless. I'll call it like I see it, a lot of the bullshit I see here is nothing more than the fear of the dominant culture losing their status as such. This is one of the few forums where people can get away with such BS because more and more its becoming unacceptable in society. But you know what, I know someone who thinks so ignorantly would never go very far in life anyway.

And on the topic, the man was arrested for disorderly conduct in his own home. I'm sorry, if you're a cop or not you will NOT come into my home and question me on shit unwarranted. 4th Amendment.. and if dude was so wrong the dumb ass cops wouldn't have dropped the charges.

Until you're black and walk in those shoes don't say shit about what black people go through.

never anywhere did i say slavery was right, and never did i say that 200 years ago they were educated. BUT IN THE 21st CENTURY WE ALL FACE THE SAME PROBLEMS. no i am not black. as i stated before every race on this planet since recorded history began has been a slave at some point or another, this country is the youngest of them but there are still countries today who have slavery, so what do you make of that. i was not alive in the 60's so why hate me when some old ass cruel person did this shit. i was raised differently than that. i make a simple statement that i am tired of hearing that card being drawn. and guess what buddy everyone is walking in the same shoes right now white, black, blue, yellow, it doesn't matter we all face the same challenges and even upper middle class white people have to sacrifice things because our economy is in the toilet.

Did you not read the story of the white family on the 4th of july or did you ignore it like the mainstream media, instead we see a story of racist hospitals and shit

people need to just get along, we share the same planet and problems and i hate to say it but since obama has been elected it's always racism this and racism that and im tired of hearing it.

as stated i could use medicaid for my neck and foodstamps for my girls but who do i turn to? seriously ask yourself that. i have no fear of how do you say race superiority because in my eyes we are equal.

hell i have some screenshots of an obama supporter forum and just because they say they want to kill white people doesn't mean i hate black people

[preferredduck]

I'm gonna start the NAWP to screw with the NAACP, it's called national association of White People, we just want equality for everyone.

[tony]

no i am not black.


Then as I said don't speak on what black people go through. Thats all that matters. If you have nothing against blacks then fine live your life but don't sit here and try to act like you know what it is or how it is because of a couple of news stories.

Racism is real and if you don't like for it to be addressed you can live in your bubble where it doesn't exist but in the REAL world it is alive and well and it should be addressed. Dont see why you're even responding to this thread if you're so tired of it.


I'm gonna start the NAWP to screw with the NAACP, it's called national association of White People, we just want equality for everyone.

Know whats funny about that? Whites started the NAACP, it started as a coalition with D.E.B Dubois but I guess you didnt realize that huh? Look around, look at the media.. do you really feel that you need a white people coalition? Ridiculous, so now people want to pretend like they're the minority.

[JITB]

Then as I said don't speak on what black people go through. Thats all that matters. If you have nothing against blacks then fine live your life but don't sit here and try to act like you know what it is or how it is because of a couple of news stories.

Racism is real and if you don't like for it to be addressed you can live in your bubble where it doesn't exist but in the REAL world it is alive and well and it should be addressed. Dont see why you're even responding to this thread if you're so tired of it.


truth, i dont know how anyone can tell anyone how to feel about anything. Some people handle things differently, everyone goes thru different things. Thats just not for racism, its for anything!

[stephen]

Are you black? Then how the fuck can you speak on what black people face?

QFT!


every black person i went to school with had the same chances i did of graduating, but instead they dropped out and sold drugs which is in alot of rap music and this is not a joke. they are told wealth etc can be made quick bein g a thug i guess.

this has to be THE MOST ignorant statement i've ever seen and makes EVERY "i'm not racist" statement from you null and void. what'd you do, go to school with ONE black person who decided to drop out? EVERY black person you went to school with dropped out because they wanted to be the next "G" or "thug"!?! it's extremely difficult for me to reach the phenomenal level of ignorance that you stand on. this is a prime example of the point i made earlier in reference to stereotypes. lol, i'm still in awe that you actually believe in half the shit you've said...

ok, wow...so you found a story of a white family that was attacked by a group of young idiots, and are upset because it didn't get blown up in the national news, BUT news of a POTENTIALLY racist police department who has consistently harassed this man NOT ONLY IN HIS OWN HOME, BUT ALSO HIS PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT. yeah buddy...i feel your pain....these damn negroes and their demand for officers of the law to treat them like everyday individuals....negroes always keeping the race card on standby!

[stephen]

Know whats funny about that? Whites started the NAACP, it started as a coalition with D.E.B Dubois but I guess you didnt realize that huh? Look around, look at the media.. do you really feel that you need a white people coalition? Ridiculous, so now people want to pretend like they're the minority.

GET EM' TONY! lol...i'm telling you...the ignorance of this dude (along with many others) is just insane! i'm wondering if he dropped out of his high school along with ALL of his black classmates...or MAYBE he didn't listen to enough rap, too much garth brooks or some shit.

[tony]

QFT!



this has to be THE MOST ignorant statement i've ever seen and makes EVERY "i'm not racist" statement from you null and void. what'd you do, go to school with ONE black person who decided to drop out? EVERY black person you went to school with dropped out because they wanted to be the next "G" or "thug"!?!


I guess they all lived in the same household too since they all had "equal" chances. Coming from a home where I had to work to help my mom at 16 it would have been real easy for someone else in my classes that didnt have that burden to say we all had the same chances. Goes right back to that notion of speak on what you know, you NEVER know what another person is dealing with other than what is on the surface.

[Vteckidd]

Some on this board have hair triggers when it comes to "reverse racism" against White people. Really guys, put the shoe on the other foot and imagine yourself as a Black person living in a 600 year legacy of slavery, exploitation, lynchings, discrimination and disenfranchisement. Racism, and the scars left from it will take generations to heal.

Im sorry , but i wont apolagize for something myself, my father, my grandfather never took any part in and always thought was wrong.

There was NO RACISM here. PERIOD. Im willing to bet if it was a WHITE PROFESSOR and a BLACK COP the same thing would have went down.

People are making an issue out of something that isnt an issue.

I mean we let Sharpton and Jackson and all kinds of other loser spew racist rhetoric all day long because for some reason they have the "right" to do so because of some injustice done to blacks over the years? isnt that the very definition of racism?

Theres EQUALITY then there's Privileged. Race relations will NEVER get better if we keep using the past as some excuse to "get even" or use the past an blame it on todays problems and mistakes.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I can't believe the ignorance of someone saying "because of Obama being elected, there is no more racism". What a crock of shit, you might as well throw a "you people" in there with it :crazy:. Just because one Black man makes it to the top, does not mean that opportunity improves across the board for all Black people. There are still inequalities in education, access to healthcare and social services, etc. It is meaningful as a symbol and an example, but when it comes down to brass tacks, racism is still a very real problem in America (for all races, including Blacks). Barack Obama is the exception moreso than the rule.

Some on this board have hair triggers when it comes to "reverse racism" against White people. Really guys, put the shoe on the other foot and imagine yourself as a Black person living in a 600 year legacy of slavery, exploitation, lynchings, discrimination and disenfranchisement. Racism, and the scars left from it will take generations to heal.

Ignorance? No, think outside the box. because Obama was elected (and because the majority of his votes were from white people) SHOWS that this country has made TONS of progress on racism. I also stated that racism still (and will always) exist in some form or another. However, if "blacks" had it so bad and "whites" were so racist against them... then a black man would not have been elected Presidency by a majority of white people. Durka.

Furthermore, the second part that I bolded is - to say the least - the dumbest thing I've read on this site since i've joined. No offense. A black person living in America today doesnt have any "scars" that have not healed from what happend before their parents were born, and beyond that. Don't give me that bullshit. Just like todays black man has no scars and personal pain from what happened to their great great ancestors, the white man of today has no guilt for what his great great ancestors did. It's LIFE. It happened. Its a contriobuting factor to whats made this country what it is today.

By your logic, it's safe to assume that if the Chinese were to rape 100,000 italian women.... that hundreds of years from now the Chinese should still feel bad and the Italians should still hold a grudge. Riiiiiight.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Are you black? Then how the fuck can you speak on what black people face?

That doesn't make a difference in any of this. We are all HUMAN. And as humans, we all have the same emotions and abilities to process thoughts regardless of color.

Whether you are black, white, yellow, green, or blue (sorry other colors, we don't care about you) it's unacceptable to use the past as a crutch to explain and reason with your current economic or social problems.

Not all black people face the same problems. Not all white people face the same problems. Not all yellow people face the same problems. You don't need to be a certain color to see what the other color is facing, because odds are, the orange person standing next to you is facing the same problems in some way, shape, or form.

[tony]

That doesn't make a difference in any of this. We are all HUMAN. And as humans, we all have the same emotions and abilities to process thoughts regardless of color.

Whether you are black, white, yellow, green, or blue (sorry other colors, we don't care about you) it's unacceptable to use the past as a crutch to explain and reason with your current economic or social problems.

Not all black people face the same problems. Not all white people face the same problems. Not all yellow people face the same problems. You don't need to be a certain color to see what the other color is facing, because odds are, the orange person standing next to you is facing the same problems in some way, shape, or form.

I can no more say I understand what someone who migrates from Mexico to the U.S goes through then anyone who isn't black can say what I go through. I don't have this idea that everyone has 2 arms and 2 legs so the experience is the same and/or different. Every culture have experiences in general, same with sex or sexual orientation. Women get discriminated against, so do gays, I don't sit here and try to believe I can understand what they go through because I am neither female or gay..

I just want to be a part of the solution and that solution is making sure that issues that face them, Latinos, Blacks, even Whites gets addressed and not scraped under the rug like they don't exist.

[stephen]

kidd...SHO...you're missing the man's point. NO ONE is asking either of you (or anyone else for that matter) to pay for anything your ancestors did. it's almost like you're itching sooo bad to make some good point, without paying attention to the statements being made. the point is, regardless as to what today's black people have physically experienced, there are still things that continue to haunt us...PERIOD. imagine what it feels like to only be able to trace your family roots back to just your grandparents. imagine KNOWING that YOU are probably the START of your family tree, and why that is. imagine what it feels like to know that your great grandfather was murdered for the simple fact that he was black. imagine what it feels like to be singled out (and yes...i'm talking about TODAY in 2009) by police, or any other non ethnic individuals because of the color of your skin. knowing that white people helped get a black man into the presidential office does little to nothing on erasing the shit i CONTINUE TO LEARN & DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS about what MY PEOPLE went through, and how it feels to have some one come close to treating me the same way. it's not me holding a grudge...it's me REMEMBERING the shit, and making it VERY CLEAR that it will never happen again.

let's put some things in a different light...

henry gates is 58yrs old...born in 1950. with that being said...i'm PRETTY DAMN SURE this man KNOWS what it's like to experience racism FIRST HAND. the man was 14 when the civil rights act of 64' was passed. once again, the man has been "questioned" by police for fitting the description of some sort of robber. i'm pretty sure i wouldn't be far off in saying that he's probably 1 of FEW black individuals who not only WORKS at harvard, but lives there. a man in his 50's, with a cane, who answered his front door with his home phone on his ear, has been made out for the 2nd time within 5yrs (by the same police department) to be a criminal because he fits the "description" (which probably has emphasis on the words BLACK MALE) and you call that fair? BULL!

take 2 seconds and imagine yourself in the scenario. you're a white man living and working in a predominately black area (let's just say 40:1 black to white ratio). over the course of 5yrs a few crimes take place with one of the key descriptions being "white male." let's say black officers consistently stop you, insinuating that you fit the description of this criminal. they even have the audacity to come to your home and ARREST YOU. would you honestly say, "hey, they're just doing their job."

[tony]

A black person living in America today doesnt have any "scars" that have not healed from what happend before their parents were born, and beyond that.

:lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

I'm not going to get Ito some deep philosophical race debate. But all I will say is this is not a race driven issue.

Racists will make it one though

[preferredduck]

QFT!



this has to be THE MOST ignorant statement i've ever seen and makes EVERY "i'm not racist" statement from you null and void. what'd you do, go to school with ONE black person who decided to drop out? EVERY black person you went to school with dropped out because they wanted to be the next "G" or "thug"!?! it's extremely difficult for me to reach the phenomenal level of ignorance that you stand on. this is a prime example of the point i made earlier in reference to stereotypes. lol, i'm still in awe that you actually believe in half the shit you've said...

ok, wow...so you found a story of a white family that was attacked by a group of young idiots, and are upset because it didn't get blown up in the national news, BUT news of a POTENTIALLY racist police department who has consistently harassed this man NOT ONLY IN HIS OWN HOME, BUT ALSO HIS PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT. yeah buddy...i feel your pain....these damn negroes and their demand for officers of the law to treat them like everyday individuals....negroes always keeping the race card on standby!

actually i went to school with more than one black person and my senior year a good friend of mine was black, his name was darryll jackson. i picked him up for school everyday and took him home everyday and when he wanted to quit i talked him out of it a few times but he finally gave up. why i don't know. maybe it really was the rap music :eek: seriously have you heard 90% of the song lyrics, kids look up to these guys and they admit they were gang bangers, but you can't take a joke from the 90's about rap music and the stink the poloticians made about it. that was around the time doggystyle came out.

Now on this subject is clearly states that he was not in his house he came outside and he has not denied that fact. But if this was the 2nd time this happened that is not good. he may have pissed someone off with a comment he should not have made. and im sorry but with crime rates for theft going through the roof because of our crappy economy everyone is a suspect. i never thought an owner of a company would steal, esp from their employees but my girlfriends boss stole her whole bottle of medication so i never put anything past anybody.


and tony, if you had to work at 16 to help ur mom awesome, that is something to be proud of because these days even family members screw each other over. My whole point of posting is some people in this country need to stop crying and do something for themselves. a good example is my family. you wouldn't know now by scratching the surface but when i was young we had no couch, just lawn chairs that our neighbor in D.C. gave us. our TV wasn't on an entertainment center, it was on blocks and a piece of wood. but my dad worked his ass off and was on a submarine for 8mos out of the year and after saving for years they bought their first house in 91. so we had no pot to piss in then but they did something about it where alot of people(any race) feel they should not have to work for shit and should have everything given to them.

and for the record stephen i was called a cracker by a black dude that i worked with last year(he was so nice to my face) but he slipped up and yelled it. my supervisor who was black also heard this yet i got in trouble, written up, etc. so can i call the NAACP about this since white people started it. Even after all that happened i still talk to some of the folks that work there because they would not stoop to his level just as i would not have. i did not yell back you stupid "N" word. The point i'm getting at here is you do not see the other side of things these days and that makes it out where all white people are racist, just as 10 years ago the label was all black people were criminals, lock your car doors when they walk by.

i know alot more than you think after being a manager for world finance, i hated what they did to their clients and was tired of driving in bad neighborhoods to collect debts. do you know how many times i was threatened and called a honky or cracker, too many. the sad part is if they were to beat me up while saying this it would not be a hate crime, but if i said the "N" word and were beating them up it would be. actually i could say other words and it would still be a hate crime. read my other posts on this thread, there are some questions i asked that i got no answer to, just as im sure you wonder why a white dude has a jacked up truck that costs more than his trailer in the happy tornado trailer park.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I can no more say I understand what someone who migrates from Mexico to the U.S goes through then anyone who isn't black can say what I go through. I don't have this idea that everyone has 2 arms and 2 legs so the experience is the same and/or different. Every culture have experiences in general, same with sex or sexual orientation. Women get discriminated against, so do gays, I don't sit here and try to believe I can understand what they go through because I am neither female or gay..

I just want to be a part of the solution and that solution is making sure that issues that face them, Latinos, Blacks, even Whites gets addressed and not scraped under the rug like they don't exist.

I agree with the bolded part.

However, as to the other part... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to UNDERSTAND what others are going through. Go anywhere in the world and do something funny. You will yield the same response/emotion. LAUGHTER. Go anywhere in the world, you'll ses LOVE. Go anywhere in the world, you'll see HATE, JEALOSY. Mentally, we all have the same emotuions and abilitis to process thought and emotion. I don't need to be a gay man to understand how they get discriminated against.

[Total_Blender]

what'd you do, go to school with ONE black person who decided to drop out? EVERY black person you went to school with dropped out because they wanted to be the next "G" or "thug"!?! it's extremely difficult for me to reach the phenomenal level of ignorance that you stand on. this is a prime example of the point i made earlier in reference to stereotypes.

A lot of people try to put a Black face on these problems, but they fail to look at the bigger picture and see that lack of education opportunities and poverty are problems that face all races. When I'm with White friends of mine and we are passed by a Caprice with 26" wheels they will make a remark about welfare fraud... they don't say anything about welfare fraud when a 5.0 Mustang, or other stereotypically "White" vehicle passes by.


Im sorry , but i wont apolagize for something myself, my father, my grandfather never took any part in and always thought was wrong.

There was NO RACISM here. PERIOD. Im willing to bet if it was a WHITE PROFESSOR and a BLACK COP the same thing would have went down.

People are making an issue out of something that isnt an issue.


When has anyone asked you, specifically, to apologize for anything? Theres a difference in apologizing and acknowledging. You can't apologize for anything your ancestors might or might not have done.

But you can acknowledge that because of the history of slavery, (and the disenfranchisement and discrimination that came after it) Black Americans have faced a significant challenge in accessing the level of opportunities as White Americans, and that in some instances those challenges continue to this day.

But instead, you all have positioned yourselves as the backlash to "racists" like Sharpton and Jackson. You all act as if racism does not exist anymore among Whites. But really, being White myself and associating freely among Whites, I can tell you that racism is alive and well. It may not be as out in the open as 1850, or even 1968, but it is definitely there in the fringes like Stormfront.

If racism among Blacks is of such a concern to you guys that you need to constantly raise a stink about it, what are you doing about the racism among Whites? While you probably tune out the sources of White racism, why do you feel the need to focus on Black racism? Can you not tune it out as well? Can you acknowledge that the "racists" among Blacks don't speak for the entire race just as the White racists don't speak for the entire white race?

[preferredduck]

I agree with the bolded part.

However, as to the other part... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to UNDERSTAND what others are going through. Go anywhere in the world and do something funny. You will yield the same response/emotion. LAUGHTER. Go anywhere in the world, you'll ses LOVE. Go anywhere in the world, you'll see HATE, JEALOSY. Mentally, we all have the same emotuions and abilitis to process thought and emotion. I don't need to be a gay man to understand how they get discriminated against.

:goodjob: this is a global mess and as i stated everyone no matter their race is going through tough times right now and we are all in this together whether we like it or not. if we don't like it then everyone needs t leave and give this country back to the indians and mexico, dont forget about the eskimos they can stay.

[One_Bad_SHO]

kidd...SHO...you're missing the man's point. NO ONE is asking either of you (or anyone else for that matter) to pay for anything your ancestors did. it's almost like you're itching sooo bad to make some good point, without paying attention to the statements being made. the point is, regardless as to what today's black people have physically experienced, there are still things that continue to haunt us...PERIOD. imagine what it feels like to only be able to trace your family roots back to just your grandparents. imagine KNOWING that YOU are probably the START of your family tree, and why that is. imagine what it feels like to know that your great grandfather was murdered for the simple fact that he was black. imagine what it feels like to be singled out (and yes...i'm talking about TODAY in 2009) by police, or any other non ethnic individuals because of the color of your skin. knowing that white people helped get a black man into the presidential office does little to nothing on erasing the shit i CONTINUE TO LEARN & DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS about what MY PEOPLE went through, and how it feels to have some one come close to treating me the same way. it's not me holding a grudge...it's me REMEMBERING the shit, and making it VERY CLEAR that it will never happen again.

let's put some things in a different light...

henry gates is 58yrs old...born in 1950. with that being said...i'm PRETTY DAMN SURE this man KNOWS what it's like to experience racism FIRST HAND. the man was 14 when the civil rights act of 64' was passed. once again, the man has been "questioned" by police for fitting the description of some sort of robber. i'm pretty sure i wouldn't be far off in saying that he's probably 1 of FEW black individuals who not only WORKS at harvard, but lives there. a man in his 50's, with a cane, who answered his front door with his home phone on his ear, has been made out for the 2nd time within 5yrs (by the same police department) to be a criminal because he fits the "description" (which probably has emphasis on the words BLACK MALE) and you call that fair? BULL!

take 2 seconds and imagine yourself in the scenario. you're a white man living and working in a predominately black area (let's just say 40:1 black to white ratio). over the course of 5yrs a few crimes take place with one of the key descriptions being "white male." let's say black officers consistently stop you, insinuating that you fit the description of this criminal. they even have the audacity to come to your home and ARREST YOU. would you honestly say, "hey, they're just doing their job."

I understand what you are saying, and I can respect it directly to you as an individual, not as part of a specific race.

Aside from that, we ALL learn about what happened to YOUR people just like we all learn about what happened to MY people, and HIS people, and HER people. My main point is that I, as an individual not as a representative of my race, can't seem to grasp the concept of blaming personal social and economic problems today on something that happened before TV was invented.

Regardless of what is said here, you as a black man and I, as a white man, will not convince each other of a damn thing. I still stand by my point that any black person using slavery (and the problems of that era) as an excuse in todays world is as ignorant and racist as they claim the other race to be. Your people went through some shit back in the day. Yup. We all know it. You didn't. No dice man.

And I don't believe in the fact that you are singled out because you are black. There are many different scenarios as to where/why a black/white person would be singled out given location/date/time/offense. If 60% of the people getting arrested are black in cities that are 60% black, its not racial profiling. I call that the LAW OF PROBABILITY. Being a minority doesn't make you the victim of anything except numbers.

[One_Bad_SHO]

A lot of people try to put a Black face on these problems, but they fail to look at the bigger picture and see that lack of education opportunities and poverty are problems that face all races. When I'm with White friends of mine and we are passed by a Caprice with 26" wheels they will make a remark about welfare fraud... they don't say anything about welfare fraud when a 5.0 Mustang, or other stereotypically "White" vehicle passes by.



When has anyone asked you, specifically, to apologize for anything? Theres a difference in apologizing and acknowledging. You can't apologize for anything your ancestors might or might not have done.

But you can acknowledge that because of the history of slavery, (and the disenfranchisement and discrimination that came after it) Black Americans have faced a significant challenge in accessing the level of opportunities as White Americans, and that in some instances those challenges continue to this day.

But instead, you all have positioned yourselves as the backlash to "racists" like Sharpton and Jackson. You all act as if racism does not exist anymore among Whites. But really, being White myself and associating freely among Whites, I can tell you that racism is alive and well. It may not be as out in the open as 1850, or even 1968, but it is definitely there in the fringes like Stormfront.

If racism among Blacks is of such a concern to you guys that you need to constantly raise a stink about it, what are you doing about the racism among Whites? While you probably tune out the sources of White racism, why do you feel the need to focus on Black racism? Can you not tune it out as well? Can you acknowledge that the "racists" among Blacks don't speak for the entire race just as the White racists don't speak for the entire white race?

Great post, however, we're veering off topic a bit here. Its been mentioned several times that racism still exists. I'm not sure I've read a post on here that specifically stated that racism was dead. Our kids will face racism, and so will their kids. Progress has definitely been made on all fronts.

[stephen]

actually i went to school with more than one black person and my senior year a good friend of mine was black, his name was darryll jackson. i picked him up for school everyday and took him home everyday and when he wanted to quit i talked him out of it a few times but he finally gave up. why i don't know. maybe it really was the rap music :eek: seriously have you heard 90% of the song lyrics, kids look up to these guys and they admit they were gang bangers, but you can't take a joke from the 90's about rap music and the stink the poloticians made about it. that was around the time doggystyle came out.

if he was really your friend, and you really were as concerned about darryll jackson as you're making things out to be, then you wouldn't insult the man in front of a RANDOM community by insisting that he was ignorant, and stupid enough to quit school due to rap music. you clearly stated that you don't know what was going on in his life...was he sick? was someone in his family sick? did he need to quit in order to get a job to take care of his family? etc. etc. etc. BY THE WAY...do some research on what race actually buys most of the rap music these days...i'll give you a hint...their skin lacks color...


Now on this subject is clearly states that he was not in his house he came outside and he has not denied that fact. But if this was the 2nd time this happened that is not good. he may have pissed someone off with a comment he should not have made. and im sorry but with crime rates for theft going through the roof because of our crappy economy everyone is a suspect. i never thought an owner of a company would steal, esp from their employees but my girlfriends boss stole her whole bottle of medication so i never put anything past anybody.

lol...dude came outside onto HIS PORCH...regardless...you're absolutely right. 2ND TIME IT HAPPENED, NOT GOOD...NO MATTER WHO HE PISSED OFF.


and for the record stephen i was called a cracker by a black dude that i worked with last year(he was so nice to my face) but he slipped up and yelled it. my supervisor who was black also heard this yet i got in trouble, written up, etc. so can i call the NAACP about this since white people started it. Even after all that happened i still talk to some of the folks that work there because they would not stoop to his level just as i would not have. i did not yell back you stupid "N" word. The point i'm getting at here is you do not see the other side of things these days and that makes it out where all white people are racist, just as 10 years ago the label was all black people were criminals, lock your car doors when they walk by.

props to you for being the bigger man in those situations. there's a lot of ignorant black people in the world, i won't deny that. hell...africa is the most resource rich continent in the world but these dummies (not all africans...but a large portion) can't stop fighting EACH OTHER long enough to prosper. there's also plenty of black people who HATE BLACK PEOPLE. so no one is saying that "black is right no matter what, and white is always wrong because of the past." the fact of the matter still stands that racism STILL EXIST. it's pretty annoying to see that anytime a black person makes a claim that they were treating wrongfully in a particular situation, there's always going to be that group of white folks (i.e. a few of you in this thread) who take the shit personal, and begin slinging around the most ignorant ideas and statements when they CLEARLY have no idea, or just flat out don't care about what REALITY is.

[preferredduck]

A lot of people try to put a Black face on these problems, but they fail to look at the bigger picture and see that lack of education opportunities and poverty are problems that face all races. When I'm with White friends of mine and we are passed by a Caprice with 26" wheels they will make a remark about welfare fraud... they don't say anything about welfare fraud when a 5.0 Mustang, or other stereotypically "White" vehicle passes by.



When has anyone asked you, specifically, to apologize for anything? Theres a difference in apologizing and acknowledging. You can't apologize for anything your ancestors might or might not have done.

But you can acknowledge that because of the history of slavery, (and the disenfranchisement and discrimination that came after it) Black Americans have faced a significant challenge in accessing the level of opportunities as White Americans, and that in some instances those challenges continue to this day.

But instead, you all have positioned yourselves as the backlash to "racists" like Sharpton and Jackson. You all act as if racism does not exist anymore among Whites. But really, being White myself and associating freely among Whites, I can tell you that racism is alive and well. It may not be as out in the open as 1850, or even 1968, but it is definitely there in the fringes like Stormfront.

If racism among Blacks is of such a concern to you guys that you need to constantly raise a stink about it, what are you doing about the racism among Whites? While you probably tune out the sources of White racism, why do you feel the need to focus on Black racism? Can you not tune it out as well? Can you acknowledge that the "racists" among Blacks don't speak for the entire race just as the White racists don't speak for the entire white race?

you know everyone faces the same challenges. nobody in my family had a college dgree until recently, they atleast finished high school. your last paragraph sums it up and on a previous post i think i put that in bold letters. but sadly some people will not change. my last employer was 80% black people and guess what i was given shit for being a white dude by about 40% of them. the other 60% were awesome, now they could have talked trash about me behind my back but oh well. i know of several times they had there little jokes they thought i did not understand, but i did. i did get pissed when i was called a cracker in a corporate enviroment and was let go because it bothered me. if i would have said the "N" word i would have been sued, jailed, and put on the news.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I just wish, in a perfect world, that the past could remain the past and that we can all just look forward as AMERICANS. As a country, we've got bigger fish to fry than racial issues. Political correctness should die. You're not AFRICAN-American if you weren't born in Africa just like I'm not EUROPEAN-American because my ancestors were born in Europe. I'm AMERICAN, and as such... this racial shit is peanuts in today's world compared to whats REALLY going on.

[preferredduck]

if he was really your friend, and you really were as concerned about darryll jackson as you're making things out to be, then you wouldn't insult the man in front of a RANDOM community by insisting that he was ignorant, and stupid enough to quit school due to rap music. you clearly stated that you don't know what was going on in his life...was he sick? was someone in his family sick? did he need to quit in order to get a job to take care of his family? etc. etc. etc. BY THE WAY...do some research on what race actually buys most of the rap music these days...i'll give you a hint...their skin lacks color...



lol...dude came outside onto HIS PORCH...regardless...you're absolutely right. 2ND TIME IT HAPPENED, NOT GOOD...NO MATTER WHO HE PISSED OFF.



props to you for being the bigger man in those situations. there's a lot of ignorant black people in the world, i won't deny that. hell...africa is the most resource rich continent in the world but these dummies (not all africans...but a large portion) can't stop fighting EACH OTHER long enough to prosper. there's also plenty of black people who HATE BLACK PEOPLE. so no one is saying that "black is right no matter what, and white is always wrong because of the past." the fact of the matter still stands that racism STILL EXIST. it's pretty annoying to see that anytime a black person makes a claim that they were treating wrongfully in a particular situation, there's always going to be that group of white folks (i.e. a few of you in this thread) who take the shit personal, and begin slinging around the most ignorant ideas and statements when they CLEARLY have no idea, or just flat out don't care about what REALITY is.

yes i was concerned for him, and rap music did not do it. nobody was sick in his family but he ultimately started to sell Herb, thats what his older brothers did and made alot of money, thats when he went to jail for a few years and got out recently. basically he wanted to make money, and he made enough to buy a fleet cadillacs in 2 years.

we cannot research the congo because of all the fighting, and then the pirates in somalia. it gripes me though that some(not all) black people complain about the past. but if you think about it is history did not happen that way they would be in africa still, there would be no obama, and actually alot of things we use today were invented by blaack people. the worst of all is christianity, there has been more bloodshed and wars over religion than anything on the planet. and i thought killing was a sin, but i guess it's ok if they are not christians. this world is screwed up and the sooner people realize we all have to share the planet and get along the better.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I'm going to leave this thread with 2 videos. Adios. :goodjob:

Russian Politicians Won't Shake Obamas hand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXI_KCX_qjM)

- As stated, racism exists everywhere.

Obamas Racism Speech (http://www.webtvhub.com/barack-obamas-racism-speech-video-is-youtube-gold-evolution-of-dance-potential/)

"We have different stories, but we hold common hopes. We may not look the same or come from the place, but we all want to move in the same direction."

[preferredduck]

read the statement from the police and then his story it does not match and he does not deny it. i have not looked up whether he has had trouble before. sadly these days a cop can do anything he wants almost and get away with it. remember the MIAC reports, if you have a ron paul bumper sticker etc.

Tony there is a good video from the 90's where a lady called out a cop on her 4th amendment right and she was taken out of her car and arrested. later in the video the cop asked if it was legal for her to have a pocket constitution. i'll find that for you it's really interesting.

[Vteckidd]

Whats funny is the arresting officer teaches a profiling class at Cambridge, wow he must be a racist and arrested this guy only because he was black :rolleyes:

[stephen]

I understand what you are saying, and I can respect it directly to you as an individual, not as part of a specific race.

Aside from that, we ALL learn about what happened to YOUR people just like we all learn about what happened to MY people, and HIS people, and HER people. My main point is that I, as an individual not as a representative of my race, can't seem to grasp the concept of blaming personal social and economic problems today on something that happened before TV was invented.

Regardless of what is said here, you as a black man and I, as a white man, will not convince each other of a damn thing. I still stand by my point that any black person using slavery (and the problems of that era) as an excuse in todays world is as ignorant and racist as they claim the other race to be. Your people went through some shit back in the day. Yup. We all know it. You didn't. No dice man.

And I don't believe in the fact that you are singled out because you are black. There are many different scenarios as to where/why a black/white person would be singled out given location/date/time/offense. If 60% of the people getting arrested are black in cities that are 60% black, its not racial profiling. I call that the LAW OF PROBABILITY. Being a minority doesn't make you the victim of anything except numbers.

i understand what you're saying, and for the most part you're right. the only thing i feel that you're missing is the point that slavery only marks the begining of the struggle for african americans. yes, that chapter is over and done with...no one is arguing that. BUT we'd be fools to say that it has NO IMPACT on today's society.

you have to remember, it was more than just whips and chains. think about all of the programs, and laws that HAD TO BE enforced in order for black people to have EQUALITY. dude...the most recent was passed in 1991...18yrs ago man. think about the elderly black people (like this guy) who has experienced more than his fair share of RACISM (not slavery) and refuses to allow it to happen to them again.

i also KNOW and UNDERSTAND that there are those out there who use slavery as a "crutch" and feel as though their owed things in life. those same individuals are selfish, and disrespectful to their ancestors who had to struggle and work hard REGARDLESS in the midst of the slavery madness. we have to remember though...EVERY BLACK PERSON DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY.


And I don't believe in the fact that you are singled out because you are black.

lol...and this is where tony's point comes in to play...ARE YOU BLACK? if you aren't black, then how can you make that statement? i'll tell you straight up...i'm black, and I HAVE BEEN SINGLED OUT FOR THE COLOR OF MY SKIN a number of times. I don't let that shit control my life though. hell, i had an experience like gates. i was picked up walking home from school by a WHITE police officer who said i fit the "description" of someone who stole a WHITE woman's purse. the officer actually brought me to the woman's house to have her i.d. me where she said "i don't know if that's him...all i know is it was a black guy." i guess that's OK though, because i live in a predominately black area and the criminal was...well....predominately black. the cop should've just taken EVERY black male within a 20 mile radius to her house for a proper i.d. we would've all been "victims of numbers."

[Total_Blender]

Furthermore, the second part that I bolded is - to say the least - the dumbest thing I've read on this site since i've joined. .

So I take it you don't read you're own posts then :ninja:

You can say all you want about your own ancestors, but they have always been legally free to:

Read
Write
Own property
Assemble in groups
Enter business through the fucking front door
Vote
Marry and have kids without fear of their families being split up
Not be denied access to a school or job because of skin color

I can list more, but I think this list is enough. Black people were denied all of the above and more. And while Blacks might have had some of these opportunities ON PAPER, often times these opportunities were un-accessable just because of social norms.

Its easy to just flat out deny the relationship of race and success in America, it requires little of you in terms of academic/empirical research.

I found a graph for my home county.
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/broker

Edit: the graph didn't paste and it won't hyperlink either. Just follow this path and you'll get there.

http://www.census.gov/eeo2000/index.html

Educational Attainment(5) -> Residence Geography -> Counties in Georgia -> Bartow County, GA



Source: US Census

Check it out and you will see lower percentages of high school and college level education among Blacks. Why would we (as a society) not want to concern ourselves with identifying factors as to why these people are seeing lower rates of education? Would it be too much of a stretch to say that the results of this graph might have something to do with social norms that prevented all but the 2 most recent generations of Blacks equal access to public education?

When people point these things out you all holler about "reverse racism" etc because its an easy response and it makes you smug and self-satisfied because you got the chance to lable someone a racist.

[BanginJimmy]

once again, the man has been "questioned" by police for fitting the description of some sort of robber. i'm pretty sure i wouldn't be far off in saying that he's probably 1 of FEW black individuals who not only WORKS at harvard, but lives there. a man in his 50's, with a cane, who answered his front door with his home phone on his ear, has been made out for the 2nd time within 5yrs (by the same police department) to be a criminal because he fits the "description" (which probably has emphasis on the words BLACK MALE) and you call that fair? BULL!

heaven forbid the cops ask a black man a question. Maybe that 40:1 ratio had something to do with it.

I have a real life example also. I was driving from a friends house in Philly back to my hotel and took a wrong turn into a very high end neighborhood. I was in my truck at the time (when it was stock). I turned around and was on my way out of the neighborhood and got pulled over. Black cop was a complete asshole to me, which means he was obviously a racist. I was asked to get out of my truck, so he could search it, I was young and dint know enough to tell him no. I still had all my bags in the truck and the cop ran my criminal record looking for warrants and everything. Finally let me go after an hour or so and followed me the 15+ miles to my hotel room. I also noticed cops driving by the hotel ALL night and looking at my truck. I guess by the same standards you use, I should have had a civil rights case on my hands.


take 2 seconds and imagine yourself in the scenario. you're a white man living and working in a predominately black area (let's just say 40:1 black to white ratio). over the course of 5yrs a few crimes take place with one of the key descriptions being "white male." let's say black officers consistently stop you, insinuating that you fit the description of this criminal. they even have the audacity to come to your home and ARREST YOU. would you honestly say, "hey, they're just doing their job."

I understand this is a complete work of fiction, but you still need more details.

Heres another situation for you. Same 40:1 neighborhood. Cops get a call that a white man is breaking into a house next door. Cops show up and tell the white guy that they got a call someone was breaking into the house. White guy blows up calling the cops racist and refusing to show ID so the cops arrest him. Would this be national news? Of course not.

[tony]

After reading an unbiased synopsis of this I think its a simple misunderstanding that escalated. As I said before I would be pretty apprehensive about any police officer just coming into my house unwarranted and asking me for I.D, if there was a place for wrong that is where the officer was wrong.. then again legally I don't think the Officer broke any laws or infringed on rights.

Gates kind of elevated the situation by being defensive which never helps a situation. If this is the 2nd occurance I understand his frustration but sometimes you have to weigh your options. If I'm just trying to get settled and in the bed I'll show my I.D and let the cops go on their way. If I'm wanting to prove a point I'll stand my ground, but I think I would have rather gone to bed.

[Vteckidd]

Thats basically all this comes down to, how dare a white cop ask a black man a question.

This wasnt Rodney King (which imo deserved to get his ass beat). The cop was doing his job plain and simple. Someone was picking a lock to get into a house someone thought it might be a burglary. Cop responded DOING HIS JOB and asked for identification.

HE DOESNT KNOW THAT PROF, for all he knows its a burglar, not a professor. Prof got mad cause HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME WHITE BOY lol

All this "you dont know what its like to be black, white, asian etc" is all bullshit that clouds the real issue.

[LizBiz]

when i read that i stopped reading!...me too. Just because Obama is pres. Doesn't mean everything is "fixed" if it was so, stuff like this wouldn't be happening. LMAO @ ya'll acting like you know how it is. I'd love for you to spend a day in the shoes of a minority.

[Vteckidd]

I just think too many people use the "racism" as a crutch.

you guys act like if me, a white man, walks into harlem i get treated as equals. Or if i walk into a Hot 107.9 concert ill be treated as an equal.

Racism or stereotypes happen EVERYWHERE, get the fuck over it. seriously how can a people move on if they keep clinging to the past in such a bitter manner.

I strongly believe that anyone does their best an works hard can do whatever they want. The tools are there if you WANT IT.

I dont need to walk in a minoritys shoes, just like you dont have to walk in the majoritys shoes.


I mean the biggest double standard exists in todays society. A white man couldnt stand their an tell the NAACP that "blacks need to be known for more than Music and Sports" which is what Obama said.

Ive always said the problem was never equal treatment, its SPECIAL treatment that these liberals and crazies want.

[One_Bad_SHO]

me too. Just because Obama is pres. Doesn't mean everything is "fixed" if it was so, stuff like this wouldn't be happening. LMAO @ ya'll acting like you know how it is. I'd love for you to spend a day in the shoes of a minority.

Then you both mis-understood what I wrote. No where did I say anything about racism being "fixed" because Obama is Prez. I said that the era of "white guilt" is over. Let it marinate. :goodjob:

And, fyi, whites are becoming the minority. Hispanics are breeding like roaches. Furthermore, I spend every day here in "Blacklanta" in the shoes of a minority.

[One_Bad_SHO]

lol...and this is where tony's point comes in to play...ARE YOU BLACK? if you aren't black, then how can you make that statement? i'll tell you straight up...i'm black, and I HAVE BEEN SINGLED OUT FOR THE COLOR OF MY SKIN a number of times.

I'm White. Through my eyes, I've never singled out a person because of the color of their skin. Does it happen, sure. Theres good cops. Theres bad cops. Theres bad apples in every profession. Time/Location/Offense... all of that can have an effect on ANYONE being "singled out". You dont have to be black to understand that.

[AirMax95]

Lots of juicy ignorance in this thread.....

White Guilt and Obama? The only people who can holler racism are people who lived pre- 1960? People are blind to the fact that many whites still dislike blacks based on skin color? Damnit, IA never fails to amaze me. This society that we live in is so damn .......arghhh!

I will reply later once I return to my hotel.

[BanginJimmy]

LPeople are blind to the fact that many whites still dislike blacks based on skin color?

So I am racist because I'm white.

It must suck to be a criminal with a crackhead mother on welfare and no access to any education.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Speaking of racism... since this thread has gone in several tangents relating the topic... heres a few comments posted to a video of some white firefighters saving some white kids from a burning car, as posted in the video (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245638) section.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/JCVL/racims.jpg

:goodjob:

[BobbyFresco]

Speaking of racism... since this thread has gone in several tangents relating the topic... heres a few comments posted to a video of some white firefighters saving some white kids from a burning car, as posted in the video (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245638) section.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/JCVL/racims.jpg

:goodjob:


Half of these posts are hateful rhetoric directed towards Blacks...so your point is exactly what?

I think it's a given that racists and people who operate under prejudiced premises come in all colors, shapes, and sizes...:goodjob:

My take on the original subject in question is ( having only to go on speculation and that which is provided in the article)

The home owner should have complied with the police officer's request at which point the home owner would have been in the clear.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Half of these posts are hateful rhetoric directed towards Blacks...so your point is exactly what?


So you assume that because I'm a white guy that my post was meant to establish some sort of point against racist blacks, being that the first racist post was started by (what we assume) is a black person? RACIST! I'm pretty educated. It's clear there's more black hate than white in that picture. Gear down big shifter.

If it had a point, it would be to show what everyone already knows. Racism is everywhere and exists no matter what color you are. I posted it because its somewhat on topic with this thread and I had just come across it. The coincidence of it made me chuckle. :goodjob:

[BobbyFresco]

So you assume that because I'm a white guy that my post was meant to establish some sort of point against racist blacks, being that the first racist post was started by (what we assume) is a black person? RACIST! I'm pretty educated. It's clear there's more black hate than white in that picture. Gear down big shifter.

If it had a point, it would be to show what everyone already knows. Racism is everywhere and exists no matter what color you are. I posted it because its somewhat on topic with this thread and I had just come across it. The coincidence of it made me chuckle. :goodjob:

Gear down big shifter?
Cute.

If you want to engage in openminded dialogue concerning the issue at hand, like an educated adult, then I'm all for it. Leave the jackassery in the WL.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Gear down big shifter?
Cute.

If you want to engage in openminded dialogue concerning the issue at hand, like an educated adult, then I'm all for it. Leave the jackassery in the WL.

Don't get your panties in a twist, cupcake. There's nothing to debate. I responded to your post in an adult manor with a hint of humor. I explained that there was no point along the lines of which you fathomed it to be other than the pure coincidence of the racism at hand I encountered immediately after leaving this thread. I even gave a little 'thumbs up'... you know... one of these things -----> :goodjob:

Sounds like somebody needs a nap. :rolleyes:

[BobbyFresco]

Don't get your panties in a twist, cupcake. There's nothing to debate. I responded to your post in an adult manor with a hint of humor. I explained that there was no point along the lines of which you fathomed it to be other than the pure coincidence of the racism at hand I encountered immediately after leaving this thread. I even gave a little 'thumbs up'... you know... one of these things -----> :goodjob:

Sounds like somebody needs a nap. :rolleyes:


Thank you for accenting your inablity to engage in dialogue sans your usual WL antics.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Thank you for accenting your inablity to engage in dialogue sans your usual WL antics.

Thank -(for) you for accenting your inability to comprehend dialogue and making something out of nothing, like our good friend Boris Kodjoe.

[BobbyFresco]

Thank -(for) you for accenting your inability to comprehend dialogue and making something out of nothing, like our good friend Boris Kodjoe.


No wai....
You mean I'm human, I'm multi-tasking and I may have made a simple mistake?
Oh noes.

Seriously, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Keep it moving.:goodjob:

[One_Bad_SHO]

No wai....
You mean I'm human, I'm multi-tasking and I may have made a simple mistake?
Oh noes.

Seriously, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Keep it moving.:goodjob:

I'm no grammar/spelling Nazi. Don't be so hard on yourself. I simply copy/pasted the first part of your post and made 2 corrections. It happens to the best of us, Boris. :goodjob:

[BobbyFresco]

I'm no grammar/spelling Nazi. Don't be so hard on yourself. I simply copy/pasted the first part of your post and made 2 corrections. It happens to the best of us, Boris. :goodjob:


Pm'ed.
What happens from this point forward is on you.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Pm'ed.
What happens from this point forward is on you.

Threats carry no water in my world. I'll take the IA vacation if that's the route you chose. I haven't violated any rules. I apologize if my posts, originally intended in good nature, equally matched yours in content and wit. If that is deserving of an IA vacation then perhaps we both deserve it. :goodjob:

[tony]

I just think too many people use the "racism" as a crutch.

you guys act like if me, a white man, walks into harlem i get treated as equals. Or if i walk into a Hot 107.9 concert ill be treated as an equal.



Welcome to our world, except its not a concert its a good portion of places if we go away from certain parts of the city. Your walking into Harlem is our walking into many of the rural counties (and even parts of Suburban Atlanta) in the south.

Again for those who don't like the truth you can live in a bubble and ignore it or accept it and if nothing else adjust your mentality accordingly. There are some people who cry racism at any and everything but I guarantee for that one person who does that there are 10 who are afraid to speak out on legitimate bigotry that they experience.

You see it here even, the same 5 or 6 black members will call out someone on racist posts when there are way more minorities here who want to be "cool" so they laugh and play along with it. I've never found the color of my skin to be the butt of a joke and never will.

[preferredduck]

So I am racist because I'm white.

It must suck to be a criminal with a crackhead mother on welfare and no access to any education.

see thats what i always hear. "black people can't be racist, there is no such thing" and i can't stand it.

go to theobamaforum.com and you will see this exact phrase used like every other post. i think the folks on that site should be banned to an island after reading some of their posts.

[preferredduck]

Welcome to our world, except its not a concert its a good portion of places if we go away from certain parts of the city. Your walking into Harlem is our walking into many of the rural counties (and even parts of Suburban Atlanta) in the south.

Again for those who don't like the truth you can live in a bubble and ignore it or accept it and if nothing else adjust your mentality accordingly. There are some people who cry racism at any and everything but I guarantee for that one person who does that there are 10 who are afraid to speak out on legitimate bigotry that they experience.

You see it here even, the same 5 or 6 black members will call out someone on racist posts when there are way more minorities here who want to be "cool" so they laugh and play along with it. I've never found the color of my skin to be the butt of a joke and never will.

the good part is i n about 20 years all the old racist folks from back in the day will be dead, so we shouldn't have any problems going anywhere.

[tony]

the good part is i n about 20 years all the old racist folks from back in the day will be dead, so we shouldn't have any problems going anywhere.

I'm sure they thought the same thing 100 years ago, ignorance breeds ignorance.

[preferredduck]

I'm sure they thought the same thing 100 years ago, ignorance breeds ignorance.

not really considering my grandparents were alive back then and guess what my grandfather was a cop in athens from 54-82 and we were always taught equality and even their neighbors were black. i actually ran into one of the guys up the street(who is black) and also a cop in athens and he always like my family. he also told me one of the neighbors he had to pick up in atlanta and transport him back to athens for murder. the difference that sticks out to me on anything(inclluding this black in america 2 show) is the parents, or lack of parents in some cases. i found it sad that the principal picked up his students and nobody came to the PTO meetings or even the football games. there was a problem there to me.

also watch what happened to people at ellis island 100 years ago. the sad part is alot of people were manipulated for political reasons just as they are today. nothing has changed there.

[One_Bad_SHO]

the good part is i n about 20 years all the old racist folks from back in the day will be dead, so we shouldn't have any problems going anywhere.

There's going to be an abundance or racism regardless. Until the day scholars predict we will all be the same color due to interracial breeding (breeding, haha), we will have have racists sharing our air. And even then people will find new ways to be racist whether it be by the shape of someones eyes or the color or their hair. :goodjob:

[BanginJimmy]

Welcome to our world, except its not a concert its a good portion of places if we go away from certain parts of the city. Your walking into Harlem is our walking into many of the rural counties (and even parts of Suburban Atlanta) in the south.

Yes, if you go out looking for racists, you will find them. It's not hard at all.

Or you can try living as a white man and know that anytime you have a disagreement with a black man you will be called a racist. Which is EXACTLY what happened in this case.


There are some people who cry racism at any and everything

I guess we need to include our president in this group after his moronic comments last night. That idiot really needs to stick with what he does best and never stray from the teleprompter.



but I guarantee for that one person who does that there are 10 who are afraid to speak out on legitimate bigotry that they experience.

Maybe its not fear, maybe its that they are above it. Some people have the self confidence to simply ignore ignorance and continue on.


You see it here even, the same 5 or 6 black members will call out someone on racist posts when there are way more minorities here who want to be "cool" so they laugh and play along with it. I've never found the color of my skin to be the butt of a joke and never will.

I am all for permabanning anyone that makes an obviously racist comment. There is no reason for it here or anywhere else.

[BanginJimmy]

And even then people will find new ways to be racist whether it be by the shape of someones eyes or the color or their hair. :goodjob:


I have been saying this for years. Racism is a name and nothing more. People will ALWAYS find a reason to hate another group of people. If it isnt race, its sex, sexuality, religion, wealth, you name it and there is a group that hates them.

[Tracy]

Kind of off topic, but here t goes anyways :) When I went to Jamaica it was pretty damn strange being a minority like that. I went to some country towns where the children had never seen white people. When we went to stores (we didn't stay in the tourists places) we could hear the people all around us talking about us. Quite a, what is the word....iono strange experience for me. I grew up in Miami where racism was rampant but in a different way. More like race against their own race. Cubans against puerto ricans and hatians agains dominicans. Shit like that....but being the ONLY white person for miles and miles was def. and eye opener. I wouldn't say anyone was racist against me, but I was def the minority.

That is not comparing to anyone who is black and how they feel. Just pointing out my minority experience and saying it was weird.

[One_Bad_SHO]

Kind of off topic, but here t goes anyways :) When I went to Jamaica it was pretty damn strange being a minority like that. I went to some country towns where the children had never seen white people. When we went to stores (we didn't stay in the tourists places) we could hear the people all around us talking about us. Quite a, what is the word....iono strange experience for me. I grew up in Miami where racism was rampant but in a different way. More like race against their own race. Cubans against puerto ricans and hatians agains dominicans. Shit like that....but being the ONLY white person for miles and miles was def. and eye opener. I wouldn't say anyone was racist against me, but I was def the minority.

That is not comparing to anyone who is black and how they feel. Just pointing out my minority experience and saying it was weird.

Different cultures, too. :goodjob:

I'm a military brat. I've lived all over the world in many different countries. Race (especially in the military) is something that hardly existed in our world. The only kind of racism we were really aware of was of a persons Nationality. We used to get in fights off base with anti-american kids, while others loved us being there because we provided jobs for the locals. It was most def. a crazy, but great, experience.

I get a kick out of this one, though. Many mainland Chinese citizens have NEVER seen a person with blonde hair. When they encounter one they usually touch the hair and ask to take pictures with the person. They draw a crowd. They only see them in movies so in real life its like a festival to them. Good times.

[tony]

Yes, if you go out looking for racists, you will find them. It's not hard at all.

Or you can try living as a white man and know that anytime you have a disagreement with a black man you will be called a racist. Which is EXACTLY what happened in this case.





We've had many of disagreements and I never called you racist. And trust me, I don't think many of us go "looking" for racists, I tend to be pretty ignorant to it myself.

[stephen]

my man jimmy! long time no debate with! how's life been to you?


heaven forbid the cops ask a black man a question. Maybe that 40:1 ratio had something to do with it.

I have a real life example also. I was driving from a friends house in Philly back to my hotel and took a wrong turn into a very high end neighborhood. I was in my truck at the time (when it was stock). I turned around and was on my way out of the neighborhood and got pulled over. Black cop was a complete asshole to me, which means he was obviously a racist. I was asked to get out of my truck, so he could search it, I was young and dint know enough to tell him no. I still had all my bags in the truck and the cop ran my criminal record looking for warrants and everything. Finally let me go after an hour or so and followed me the 15+ miles to my hotel room. I also noticed cops driving by the hotel ALL night and looking at my truck. I guess by the same standards you use, I should have had a civil rights case on my hands.

civil rights case...YOU'RE 100% RIGHT. you were PROFILED, and treated UNFAIRLY. you know what the sad part is? as much as i've seen you and a handful of others bash al sharpton and jesse jackson...i'd bet the porsche that they would've handled that case for you. you were a young, white man, who appeared to be in an area where he didn't belong....now just imagine...imagine if that were to happen to you ON A REGULAR BASIS. imagine if it that neighborhood was YOUR neighborhood. imagine instead of pulling you over, you appeared "suspicious" to said officer, and he game to your front door demanding a reason for you being there. imagine if he were to do the samething to you at your place of work. imagine if that's something you've dealt with for 58yrs...your entire life. there really isn't a response needed...just imagine.

understand me when i say that I KNOW racism comes in all sizes, shapes, colors, etc. my point is, this man was profiled YET AGAIN...and although he may not have acted appropriately in the company of an officer, he never asked to be consistently harassed by the law.



I understand this is a complete work of fiction, but you still need more details.

Heres another situation for you. Same 40:1 neighborhood. Cops get a call that a white man is breaking into a house next door. Cops show up and tell the white guy that they got a call someone was breaking into the house. White guy blows up calling the cops racist and refusing to show ID so the cops arrest him. Would this be national news? Of course not.

ANYONE who blows up at the police is placing themselves at risk for being arrested...point...blank...period. i stated that mr. gates reaction to the officer could've been handled slightly better (#1 don't imply that he's racist while he's still in your face....). the police have a duty to work for the people, and at times they have the obligation to try understanding people. coming to someone's front door demaning they come outside and provide you with I.D. won't get the cop anywhere. why not say "excuse me sir, is everything alright? we received a call of a possible break-in in progress at this location and i'm here to check on it. are you the home owner? do you mind if i check your I.D. so that i can properly file/finish my report?"

but, since we're giving scenarios answer me this one....let's say gates called the police because his neighbor (a 58yr old white woman, carrying a cane) has 2 white people who appear to be intruding on her home. the police arrive, the woman answers the door with the phone in one hand and a cane in the other...do you think the officer's first impression is going to be "uh oh...she might be our intruder!" do you think the officer's first words are going to be "ma'am i need you to step outside the house and show me some I.D." OR something similar to the text i posted above??? let's just be real about it...

[TIGERJC]

my man jimmy! long time no debate with! how's life been to you?



civil rights case...YOU'RE 100% RIGHT. you were PROFILED, and treated UNFAIRLY. you know what the sad part is? as much as i've seen you and a handful of others bash al sharpton and jesse jackson...i'd bet the porsche that they would've handled that case for you. you were a young, white man, who appeared to be in an area where he didn't belong....now just imagine...imagine if that were to happen to you ON A REGULAR BASIS. imagine if it that neighborhood was YOUR neighborhood. imagine instead of pulling you over, you appeared "suspicious" to said officer, and he game to your front door demanding a reason for you being there. imagine if he were to do the samething to you at your place of work. imagine if that's something you've dealt with for 58yrs...your entire life. there really isn't a response needed...just imagine.

understand me when i say that I KNOW racism comes in all sizes, shapes, colors, etc. my point is, this man was profiled YET AGAIN...and although he may not have acted appropriately in the company of an officer, he never asked to be consistently harassed by the law.




ANYONE who blows up at the police is placing themselves at risk for being arrested...point...blank...period. i stated that mr. gates reaction to the officer could've been handled slightly better (#1 don't imply that he's racist while he's still in your face....). the police have a duty to work for the people, and at times they have the obligation to try understanding people. coming to someone's front door demaning they come outside and provide you with I.D. won't get the cop anywhere. why not say "excuse me sir, is everything alright? we received a call of a possible break-in in progress at this location and i'm here to check on it. are you the home owner? do you mind if i check your I.D. so that i can properly file/finish my report?"

but, since we're giving scenarios answer me this one....let's say gates called the police because his neighbor (a 58yr old white woman, carrying a cane) has 2 white people who appear to be intruding on her home. the police arrive, the woman answers the door with the phone in one hand and a cane in the other...do you think the officer's first impression is going to be "uh oh...she might be our intruder!" do you think the officer's first words are going to be "ma'am i need you to step outside the house and show me some I.D." OR something similar to the text i posted above??? let's just be real about it...

He can't imagine that just like I can't Imagine being a white person and going through the injustice he feels.

I lol at every time a white or black person tries to act like they walked in the other person's shoes

[AirMax95]

To all the participants in this thread that have taken the time to discuss this topic, seriously, I want you to take this quote and understand it.


"But the facing of so vast a prejudice could not but bring the inevitable self-questioning, self-disparagement, and lowering of ideals which ever accompany repression and breed in an atmosphere of contempt and hate. Whisperings and portents came borne upon the four winds: Lo! we are diseased and dying, cried the dark hosts; we cannot write, our voting is vain; what need of education, since we must always cook and serve? And the Nation echoed and enforced this self-criticism, saying: Be content to be servants, and nothing more; what need of higher culture of half-men? Away with the black man's ballot, by force or fraud,- and behold the suicide of a race!

Nevertheless, out of the evil came something of good, --the more careful adjustment of education to real life, the clearer perception of the Negroes' social responsibilities, and the sobering realization of the meaning of progress"


I am not going to go back and quote any of the absurd comments as to how a person, or people, should react to slavery and discrimination.

"Get over it and move on", "It's in the past, this is the future", "Obama is president, white guilt is over", "Black folks pull the race card to much", "Other people went through slavery too", "Black man is president which shows America is not racist".

Those comments above come from ignorance to the truth. Having friends that are black does not bring the feeling of racial discrimination full circle. There is no way to feel it unless you live it. Did I, or any other black people on this board live through slavery, lynchings, jim crow, and willy lynch? No, but that does not mean the pain of knowing my ancestors struggles can't hurt. It does not erase the reality that I face now, as I type from Tulsa, Oklahoma. My dress, how I present myself, the job title that I hold in a company that does hot have much black leadership shows the road ahead for me. If, as a white person, you were wrongfully stopped by a black officer, I see where your frustration 100%; its not right. Though, with that said, let me leave you with another quote.


"After the Egyptian and the Indian, the Greek and Roman, the Teuton and Mongolian, the Negro is sort of a seventh son, born with a veil , and gifted with a second-sight in this American world--a world which yields him no true self-consciousness, this sense of always looking at one's self through the eyes of others, measuring one's soul by the tape of a world that looks on in amused contempt and pity. One ever feel his twoness--an American, and a Negro; two souls, two thoughts, two unreconciled strivings; two warring ideals in one dark body, whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn assunder."

In the case of Gates arrest, no one on this board (or any other) can argue definitively who was wrong. The officer did not show his badge after being asked several times. The proof WAS shown that he lived at the residence, but Gates was probably also irrate. He was arrested on his property, after proof being shown to validate his ownership of the home, for disorderly conduct. None of it adds up, but in the end the charges were droppped. In this reality that we live in, Stephen hit the nail on the head. Had this been an elderly white woman, and she was just as irrate, she would not have been hauled off to jail. With that said, we don't know what was said during the incident, and most of the facts out in the beginning were from the police report. Once Gates was released and the interviews began, the other side came out and the grey dividing lines of America were bolded.

People on this board do what they do best, hop the fence and point the finger. "Black folk always pull the race card". Well, you know what, if THOSE whites that put the race card in the deck, it wouldn't be pulled. Did anyone read the story about Senator Boxer and her condescending comments towards Harry Alford?

Also, there has been a severe decline in the notion of "the white man is holding me back". That bullshit has been handled internally, if you catch my drift. Another thing, stop referencing Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in light of the race card. These to men have a mind set that few can understand; I sometimes shake my head. Sadly, if they didn't call out the smallest hint of racial discrimination, THOSE people would try to replicate the 1800's.

Carry on this discussion respectively, and with an open mind, in order to learn and understand. From what I gain, everyone here wishes things were level and just. Getting to that point well never end unless the teaching of hate is stopped everywhere. Like I said, I do not hold any responsible for the past, I hold you responsible for your actions in the present. The actions and notions on the slave days in America is still in the minds of many white american, as in the black american. Can it be forgetton? NO. Can it be deleted? NO. Will it kill the progression of this nation? Yes, as long as it is still used as a crutch on both sides.

Pull the card, shuffle the deck, and play fair.



P.S> Do not correct my spelling errors if they exist :D

[Vteckidd]

All im saying is that this is NOT A RACE ISSUE. How come a white cop arrests a BLACK person and its RACE ISSUE?

Can we just not admit that the cop arrested someone that was mouthing off?

Did you know the cop has been teaching other officers how NOT to racial profile for the last 10 years and was appointed that position by a BLACK superior?

Its not a race issue, stop making it one is my only point

[AirMax95]

All im saying is that this is NOT A RACE ISSUE. How come a white cop arrests a BLACK person and its RACE ISSUE?

Can we just not admit that the cop arrested someone that was mouthing off?

Did you know the cop has been teaching other officers how NOT to racial profile for the last 10 years and was appointed that position by a BLACK superior?

Its not a race issue, stop making it one is my only point

Mike, I follow your thought process. In this case it is not that cut and dry. No one knows what was said, when and/or how. He says he asked for a badge and name several times, but neither were presented. Why couldn't the cop just present the info FIRST, before Gates needed to open the door? Why could he not check the officers credentials? Just because an officer comes to your door does not mean you have to open it. It's Mass. law for officers to give credentials when asked. After not complying, I would be fearful and pissed off.

After proof was shown, the cop should have left PERIOD.

[Vteckidd]

The cop doesnt need to show him anything, the PROF WAS THE SUSPECT. If you get pulled over and you ddemand to see the cops badge number and name you think hes going to be like "yes sir here it is"????


The police report says the cop identified himself immidietly and asked Gates to come outside. Gates refused and said "why cause im a black man in america".

Gates door was open, the cop saw him through the foyer. If someone calls in a burglary, the cop has probable cause to open and search the house especially if someone is inside and wont identify themselves.

Juan Williams had an excellent explanation for this today on Fox. He said he has had police come to his door when an alarm has gone off. He said they followed him in to make sure the house was really his and the place was clear. He said sure it can be a little unerving and first think that entered his mind was "its cause im black". But then he said wait a minute, these guys are just doing their jobs. What if his wife was upstairs with a gun to her head and the perp said "open the door get rid of the cops".

Lets play devils advocate. What if the cop said "OMG IM SORRY" and took "Gates" at his word and left. What if it had not really been gates and it was someone else and gates comes home to an empty burglarized house? then we would be bitching that a white cop didnt care about a black house.

Sorry, Gates went looking for trouble and he found it.

[Total_Blender]

All im saying is that this is NOT A RACE ISSUE. How come a white cop arrests a BLACK person and its RACE ISSUE?

Can we just not admit that the cop arrested someone that was mouthing off?

t

OK, Gates was arrested, detained for several hours, and released after paying a menial fine (it was $40).They searched his pants and found $40, he paid a $40 fine. Coincidence? Just marinate on that for a second.

He was arrested for one purpose and one purpose only... to humiliate him. If he had been guilty of anything he'd have been charged and he would have had to post a bond.

Gates might have been mouthing off to the cop, but if he was an elderly White person with the same attitude, or if he had simply allowed the cop to walk all over him on his own property, he would not have been taken to jail. It seems to me like he was taken to jail at the cop's discretion... after he brought race into the equation and challenged the cop's authority. So instead of providing Gates with his identification information and de-escalating the situation, the officer takes Gates in on a "disorderly conduct" charge. The officer should have left after Gates showed identification that he had a legal right to be in his own home, and it wouldn't have been an incident.

Instead he decided to provoke Gates and trump up a DC charge to "put him in his place"... probably not because of race so much as challenging his authority, but its still just as wrong. A lot of officers use DC as a retaliation on angry citizens that confront them.

[preferredduck]

my man jimmy! long time no debate with! how's life been to you?



civil rights case...YOU'RE 100% RIGHT. you were PROFILED, and treated UNFAIRLY. you know what the sad part is? as much as i've seen you and a handful of others bash al sharpton and jesse jackson...i'd bet the porsche that they would've handled that case for you. you were a young, white man, who appeared to be in an area where he didn't belong....now just imagine...imagine if that were to happen to you ON A REGULAR BASIS. imagine if it that neighborhood was YOUR neighborhood. imagine instead of pulling you over, you appeared "suspicious" to said officer, and he game to your front door demanding a reason for you being there. imagine if he were to do the samething to you at your place of work. imagine if that's something you've dealt with for 58yrs...your entire life. there really isn't a response needed...just imagine.

understand me when i say that I KNOW racism comes in all sizes, shapes, colors, etc. my point is, this man was profiled YET AGAIN...and although he may not have acted appropriately in the company of an officer, he never asked to be consistently harassed by the law.




ANYONE who blows up at the police is placing themselves at risk for being arrested...point...blank...period. i stated that mr. gates reaction to the officer could've been handled slightly better (#1 don't imply that he's racist while he's still in your face....). the police have a duty to work for the people, and at times they have the obligation to try understanding people. coming to someone's front door demaning they come outside and provide you with I.D. won't get the cop anywhere. why not say "excuse me sir, is everything alright? we received a call of a possible break-in in progress at this location and i'm here to check on it. are you the home owner? do you mind if i check your I.D. so that i can properly file/finish my report?"

but, since we're giving scenarios answer me this one....let's say gates called the police because his neighbor (a 58yr old white woman, carrying a cane) has 2 white people who appear to be intruding on her home. the police arrive, the woman answers the door with the phone in one hand and a cane in the other...do you think the officer's first impression is going to be "uh oh...she might be our intruder!" do you think the officer's first words are going to be "ma'am i need you to step outside the house and show me some I.D." OR something similar to the text i posted above??? let's just be real about it...

here is a good read for ya, a 60 year old white woman, so it happens to everyone but these incidents don't make the news and don't make obama rattle something stupid. im proving a point here that it happens to everybody but we only hear certain things in the media. below is a link to the article. so i firmly take my stance that everyone goes through challenges, some different than others.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Busby-Melee-Was-Regrettable-Avoidable-Unnecessary--.html

A fundraiser for Francine Busby ended in chaos when the party's 60-year old hostess was pepper-sprayed and arrested on suspicion of obstructing a peace officer and battery on a peace officer, deputies said.

Investigators responded to noise complaints Friday night at a home in Cardiff-by-the-Sea where Shari Barman, 60, was holding a fundraiser for Busby, one of two Democrats seeking to replace Republican incumbent Brian Bilbray.

A representative Busby released a statement Sunday calling it a “quiet private party” in support of Busby’s campaign for Congress. The statement said there was no music, entertainment or rowdy behavior on the part of the mostly middle-aged guests.

“As Busby spoke to the attendees, a man was heard shouting from behind a wooded area,” Mike Kreizenbeck said. “His obscenity-laced tirade against Democrats and Francine Busby included a number of threats.”

A sheriff’s deputy entered the home at about 9:30 p.m. and asked to speak with the homeowner. A deputy asked for Barman's date of birth so he could file paperwork alerting the city to the noise complaints but Barman refused, Sgt. Chuck Yancey told the San Diego Union-Tribune on Saturday.

When the officer tried to arrest Barman, a crowd of about 30 to 50 partygoers surrounded her and were able to separate her from the deputy, Yancey told the paper. Deputies dispersed pepper spray on the crowd and the deputy arrested Barman after she punched him, Yancey said.

“When the homeowner asked the deputy sheriff why he needed her date of birth, the deputy reacted by restraining the homeowner and throwing her to the ground,” Kreizenbeck said. “Alarmed guests pleaded with the deputy to let the 60-year-old homeowner go and stop hurting her.”

Busby said the incident was regrettable because it was avoidable and unnecessary.

“Senior deputies who arrived later explained that the deputy had been responding to a complaint about a 'Democratic Demonstration,’ which clearly mischaracterized the nature of the private reception and indicated that this may have been a politically motivated call,” Kreizenbeck said.

Barman was booked into the Vista Detention Facility and later released.

The San Diego County Sheriff’s Department could not be reached for further comment Sunday.

[preferredduck]

Mike, I follow your thought process. In this case it is not that cut and dry. No one knows what was said, when and/or how. He says he asked for a badge and name several times, but neither were presented. Why couldn't the cop just present the info FIRST, before Gates needed to open the door? Why could he not check the officers credentials? Just because an officer comes to your door does not mean you have to open it. It's Mass. law for officers to give credentials when asked. After not complying, I would be fearful and pissed off.

After proof was shown, the cop should have left PERIOD.

here is an example of what happens when you don't ID yourself. Ignore the AJ comments and this video is old as hell too. notice they charge her with resisting arrest, assault on an officer, and obstructing justice. she also used her right to remain silent. it's kind of funny but it wipes out her 4th amendment right. they also thought it was illegal for her to have a pocket copy of the constitution. This video can also apply to Mr gates but the probable cause is a call about a break in, enjoy the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZPaI_ggVIY

i also saw today that the officer was supposively not biased but who knows what was really said. like i said before a friend of mine called a forest ranger a dike bitch and we all went to jail, including me for not a damn thing.

[BanginJimmy]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17512830/Gates-Police-Report


here is the police report. You will clearly see that the cop was completely respectful and gates was the one that was wholly out of line.

[BanginJimmy]

my man jimmy! long time no debate with! how's life been to you?

Life has perked up a bit, even considering the current political situation. Got a new job, and hopefully the govt will allow me to keep some of my money.




civil rights case...YOU'RE 100% RIGHT. you were PROFILED, and treated UNFAIRLY. you know what the sad part is? as much as i've seen you and a handful of others bash al sharpton and jesse jackson...i'd bet the porsche that they would've handled that case for you. you were a young, white man, who appeared to be in an area where he didn't belong....now just imagine...imagine if that were to happen to you ON A REGULAR BASIS. imagine if it that neighborhood was YOUR neighborhood. imagine instead of pulling you over, you appeared "suspicious" to said officer, and he game to your front door demanding a reason for you being there. imagine if he were to do the samething to you at your place of work. imagine if that's something you've dealt with for 58yrs...your entire life. there really isn't a response needed...just imagine.

Now imagine that there had been several break-ins in the area by a white guy driving a red blazer?

Do you honetly think a white guy would EVER have a chance at winning a civil rights case against a black cop?



understand me when i say that I KNOW racism comes in all sizes, shapes, colors, etc. my point is, this man was profiled YET AGAIN...and although he may not have acted appropriately in the company of an officer, he never asked to be consistently harassed by the law.

Constantly is a bit of an overstatement. He was stopped 1 other time.





but, since we're giving scenarios answer me this one....let's say gates called the police because his neighbor (a 58yr old white woman, carrying a cane) has 2 white people who appear to be intruding on her home. the police arrive, the woman answers the door with the phone in one hand and a cane in the other...do you think the officer's first impression is going to be "uh oh...she might be our intruder!" do you think the officer's first words are going to be "ma'am i need you to step outside the house and show me some I.D." OR something similar to the text i posted above??? let's just be real about it...

My guess is that the cop does the exact same thing. The lady shows her ID and the cop says have a nice day, sorry for bothering you.

[Total_Blender]

here is the police report. You will clearly see that the cop was completely respectful and gates was the one that was wholly out of line.

Because we should always take the cop's word for it, right? :rolleyes:

Seems to me like he was trying to bait Gates to get him out of the house so he could collar him for DC. Inviting an angry citizen to a public space for "further questions" is clearly a set-up to escalate the confrontation in the view of a crowd. I did not know that Gates had called the chief and complained, now it adds the dimension to it that the officer was probably trying to save his own ass by having the crowd witness Gate's behavior.

1.) Gates's complaints to the cheif would be neutralized by the DC charge.
2.) Officer gets to humiliate Gates for questioning his authority (put that uppity elitist in his place, etc)

After seeing Gates ID, he should have left or at least backed off for a minute to de-escalate the situation PERIOD. There were other officers on the scene to answer Gate's questions.

[BanginJimmy]

Because we should always take the cop's word for it, right? :rolleyes:

Seems to me like he was trying to bait Gates to get him out of the house so he could collar him for DC. Inviting an angry citizen to a public space for "further questions" is clearly a set-up to escalate the confrontation in the view of a crowd. I did not know that Gates had called the chief and complained, now it adds the dimension to it that the officer was probably trying to save his own ass by having the crowd witness Gate's behavior.

1.) Gates's complaints to the cheif would be neutralized by the DC charge.
2.) Officer gets to humiliate Gates for questioning his authority (put that uppity elitist in his place, etc)

After seeing Gates ID, he should have left or at least backed off for a minute to de-escalate the situation PERIOD. There were other officers on the scene to answer Gate's questions.

I forgot, all white cops are racists trying to keep the black man down.



On a side not, Cambridge PD is about to start a news conference about this. I know FOX is covering it, not sure about anyone else.

[preferredduck]

I forgot, all white cops are racists trying to keep the black man down.



On a side not, Cambridge PD is about to start a news conference about this. I know FOX is covering it, not sure about anyone else.

CNN also covered it and the police dept did not back down. there was no apology and they flipped obama's "acting stupidly" comment back at him and Mr Gates. and of course CNN was like now they have done it and ascalated the situation. this is getting out of hand.

[Vteckidd]

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation.

Sgt. Leon Lashley says Gates was probably tired and surprised when Sgt. James Crowley demanded identification from him as officers investigated a report of a burglary. Lashley says Gates' reaction to Crowley was "a little bit stranger than it should have been."

Asked if Gates should have been arrested, Lashley said supported Crowley "100 percent."

Gates has said he was the victim of racial profiling.

President Barack Obama says the officers "acted stupidly." Lashley called Obama's remark "unfortunate" and said he should be allowed to take it back.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A multiracial group of police officers on Friday stood with the white officer who arrested a prominent black Harvard scholar and asked President Barack Obama and Gov. Deval Patrick to apologize for comments the union leaders called insulting.

Obama said Wednesday that Cambridge police "acted stupidly" during the disorderly conduct arrest of his friend, Henry Louis Gates Jr., in his own home near Harvard University. Gov. Deval Patrick said Gates' arrest was "every black man's nightmare."

Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said Obama's remarks were "misdirected" and the Cambridge police "deeply resent the implication" that race was a factor in the arrest.

"President Obama said the actions of the CPD were stupid and linked the event to the history of racial profiling in America," O'Connor said. "The facts of the case suggested that the president used the right adjective but directed it to the wrong party."

Officers responded to Gates' home on July 16 after a woman called 911 and said she saw two black men with backpacks trying to force open the front door. The woman, Lucia Whalen, has not responded to repeated attempts for comment.

Gates has said he returned from an overseas trip, found the door jammed, and that he and his driver attempted to force it open. Gates went through the back door and was inside the house on the phone with the property's management company when police arrived.

Police said he flew into a verbal rage after Sgt. James Crowley, who is white, asked him to show identification to prove he should be in the home. Police say Gates accused Crowley of racial bias, refused to calm down and was arrested. The charge was dropped Tuesday, but Gates has demanded an apology, calling his arrest a case of racial profiling.

Gates, 58, maintains he turned over identification when asked to do so by the police. He said Crowley arrested him after the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

Crowley has refused to apologize, saying he followed protocol.

[preferredduck]

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation.

Sgt. Leon Lashley says Gates was probably tired and surprised when Sgt. James Crowley demanded identification from him as officers investigated a report of a burglary. Lashley says Gates' reaction to Crowley was "a little bit stranger than it should have been."

Asked if Gates should have been arrested, Lashley said supported Crowley "100 percent."

Gates has said he was the victim of racial profiling.

President Barack Obama says the officers "acted stupidly." Lashley called Obama's remark "unfortunate" and said he should be allowed to take it back.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A multiracial group of police officers on Friday stood with the white officer who arrested a prominent black Harvard scholar and asked President Barack Obama and Gov. Deval Patrick to apologize for comments the union leaders called insulting.

Obama said Wednesday that Cambridge police "acted stupidly" during the disorderly conduct arrest of his friend, Henry Louis Gates Jr., in his own home near Harvard University. Gov. Deval Patrick said Gates' arrest was "every black man's nightmare."

Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said Obama's remarks were "misdirected" and the Cambridge police "deeply resent the implication" that race was a factor in the arrest.

"President Obama said the actions of the CPD were stupid and linked the event to the history of racial profiling in America," O'Connor said. "The facts of the case suggested that the president used the right adjective but directed it to the wrong party."

Officers responded to Gates' home on July 16 after a woman called 911 and said she saw two black men with backpacks trying to force open the front door. The woman, Lucia Whalen, has not responded to repeated attempts for comment.

Gates has said he returned from an overseas trip, found the door jammed, and that he and his driver attempted to force it open. Gates went through the back door and was inside the house on the phone with the property's management company when police arrived.

Police said he flew into a verbal rage after Sgt. James Crowley, who is white, asked him to show identification to prove he should be in the home. Police say Gates accused Crowley of racial bias, refused to calm down and was arrested. The charge was dropped Tuesday, but Gates has demanded an apology, calling his arrest a case of racial profiling.

Gates, 58, maintains he turned over identification when asked to do so by the police. He said Crowley arrested him after the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

Crowley has refused to apologize, saying he followed protocol.

damn, this should be case closed and i don't wanna see this or hear it on the news anymore. esp after the story i posted about a 60 year old white woman getting the same treatment. i don't care who you are or what color you are always be nice to the cops. my alarm at my house has gone off before and guess what i was questioned since i was the only one home. too many people lie and steal now esp since the economy is bad and you really don't know who is up to what. it sucks all this happened but the media coverage is getting out of hand.

[leobond001]

They need to look at the bigger issue of cops just arresting ppl left and right. he didnt need to be arrested. i saw the puclic statment from the arresting officer on tv this morning.

he said only after his mother was called names he proceeded to arrest hime.

so as a cop, do you only act out of personal emotion? that sound like what happened. the cop got offend and slapped the cuffs on and that goes against the oth they take on the bible about protecting and serving.

[preferredduck]

They need to look at the bigger issue of cops just arresting ppl left and right. he didnt need to be arrested. i saw the puclic statment from the arresting officer on tv this morning.

he said only after his mother was called names he proceeded to arrest hime.

so as a cop, do you only act out of personal emotion? that sound like what happened. the cop got offend and slapped the cuffs on and that goes against the oth they take on the bible about protecting and serving.

actually next time you see a cop give him the finger and say your momma sucks and i bet the charges will stick. they have laws on insulting officers, slander, and many other things. the professor should have known better and just been nice and worked with the guy. i know from experience, the two times i was with someone who smarted off to a cop once i was in handcuffs, and the 2nd time i fortunately only got a whiff of pepper spray and on both occasions i was nice.

[The Ninja]

This all could have been finished EVEN IF THE GUY MOUTHED OFF TO THE OFFICER, when the officer arrested him I'm 100% positive the guy didn't sit there and act like a criminal. Despite what he was saying, when he was arrested I'm sure the officer looked at his ID and saw the address matching the one at the house.

AT THAT INSTANT THIS ALL COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED WITH A "Oh, so you live here? (rhetorical, doesn't even need an answer) Well I was just following up on some neighbors reports. Have a good night." Uncuff him, let him go home. The end. Probably never would have made it any further. Lets not place blame, but lets figure out why it didn't end right there???


Because cops are douchebags. :ninja:

[The Ninja]

Here are the facts.

1) Guy trying to enter his house.
2) He was on the phone when police arrived. (What fucking burglar takes time to make a call in the "victim's" house?)
3) He was arrested.
4) This was blown way out of proportion.
5) Could have been resolved before he was arrested.


Here are some inferences.

1) Henry Louis Gates, Jr acted like a retard.
2) The cop acted like a retard.
3) Abuse of power. "Hey, since you're not doing exactly what I say I'm gonna put you through hell so you learn to respect me. Look what I can do."
4) Abuse of the race card, BY BOTH PARTIES. Of course he's gonna think he was a victim of profiling. He's black in a predominantly white neighborhood where I'm sure he's lived for SOME TIME. He's on his own property. What burglar has a "driver", and I'm not talking a getaway driver.

Cop pulls up "Hey, I heard some reports of some guys trying to break into this house." He just got back from coming in from out the country, so apparently the guy is stressed and tired, meanwhile the cop should have had some common sense to realize this did not look like a robbery (at first glance) but after it was OBVIOUS the man lived there, despite any uncooperation, the guy wasn't doing anything wrong. Had the cop never came, nothing bad would have happened. If you're not doing anything wrong, and cops bother you, IT FEELS LIKE FUCKING HARASSMENT. I'd get pissed too.

[BanginJimmy]

Here are the facts.

1) Guy trying to enter his house.
2) He was on the phone when police arrived. (What fucking burglar takes time to make a call in the "victim's" house?)
3) He was arrested.
4) This was blown way out of proportion.
5) Could have been resolved before he was arrested.


Here are some inferences.

1) Henry Louis Gates, Jr acted like a retard.
2) The cop acted like a retard.
3) Abuse of power. "Hey, since you're not doing exactly what I say I'm gonna put you through hell so you learn to respect me. Look what I can do."
4) Abuse of the race card, BY BOTH PARTIES. Of course he's gonna think he was a victim of profiling. He's black in a predominantly white neighborhood where I'm sure he's lived for SOME TIME. He's on his own property. What burglar has a "driver", and I'm not talking a getaway driver.

Cop pulls up "Hey, I heard some reports of some guys trying to break into this house." He just got back from coming in from out the country, so apparently the guy is stressed and tired, meanwhile the cop should have had some common sense to realize this did not look like a robbery (at first glance) but after it was OBVIOUS the man lived there, despite any uncooperation, the guy wasn't doing anything wrong. Had the cop never came, nothing bad would have happened. If you're not doing anything wrong, and cops bother you, IT FEELS LIKE FUCKING HARASSMENT. I'd get pissed too.


You do know that cops HAVE to follow certain procedures dont you? Read the police report first, then come back. The cop was about to let it go when Gates came out of the house screaming and calling him a racist.

You also have to remember that Gate's neighbor was the one that called the cops about a break-in. If she didnt even recognize him, then who is to say that there wasnt someone else in the house? That is why the police will typically ask you to come out onto the porch or sidewalk when they talk to you.

The only way this entire event could have been avoided is if Gates didnt throw the race card. Makes me wonder what he is teaching in his classes if every time he has to deal with someone white he throws around claims of racism. IMO, people like this are the reason why race relations will never move forward. Real acts of racism and discrimination are being ignored because of so many people crying wolf.

[ahabion]

You do know that cops HAVE to follow certain procedures dont you? Read the police report first, then come back. The cop was about to let it go when Gates came out of the house screaming and calling him a racist.

You also have to remember that Gate's neighbor was the one that called the cops about a break-in. If she didnt even recognize him, then who is to say that there wasnt someone else in the house? That is why the police will typically ask you to come out onto the porch or sidewalk when they talk to you.

The only way this entire event could have been avoided is if Gates didnt throw the race card. Makes me wonder what he is teaching in his classes if every time he has to deal with someone white he throws around claims of racism. IMO, people like this are the reason why race relations will never move forward. Real acts of racism and discrimination are being ignored because of so many people crying wolf.

Why is it when it comes to black people that they're the only one's to really play up the race card?

I mean really... I'm an Asian dude... was I profiled? Hell yea I was profiled before... was I made... hell yea I was mad... but did I get arrested? NO... because I know that if I do something or say something, it'll be me in handcuffs. I got pulled over driving my soccer mom SUV (mazda cx7) and i got pulled over... why? Because I looked suspicious! WTF is that?! But I gave him my license and everything else and was sent on my way... Yea I was mad but I didn't play up the race card... the cop that pulled me over... yea he was BLACK...

Get over it and move on.

[Vteckidd]

the 911 tapes were released, and the caller never mentioned that it was a black person or black people breaking in.

The backup officer who is black has come out and said that Crowley wasnt racist or racially motivated and was right in arresting the prof.

Like i said, this wasnt a race issue, the Prof made it one

[preferredduck]

ok today the 911 call was released and the caller never brought up race and actually thought the person was latino, but wasn't sure. also the recordings of the cop on the radsio you can hear someone being unrully in the background. it looks like mr gates plan backfired on him this time and obama's remarks did also. i cant wait for the white house meeting.

[The Creeper]

Who really gives a shit about all this anyways? There are more important things the media should be covering, and much more important things for Obama to worry about.

[Total_Blender]

Here's the thing... when Gates brought up race, the officer lost his shit and arrested him. Rather than leaving the scene and relying on both the 911 tapes and the testimony of his fellow officers and witnesses at the scene to back him up, the officer chose to lure Gates out and haul him in for DC. Many Whites are fearful or hesitant when it comes to having an actual dialogue about race, and whenever there is an issue concerning race brought up on this board, the response from the "IA conservative peanut gallery" is always deny deny deny.

I'm not saying Gates was right for bringing up the subject of race, what I am saying is that the cop didn't handle it right when Gates did bring up the issue of race. Had the cop just left, and fallen back on the 911 call and the testimony of those at the scene this wouldn't be an issue. By un-necessarily arresting Gates he made it a damn circus. :2cents:

[AirMax95]

IMO (I think I said this earlier), Gates went mad, but the cop really didn't have to arrest him. I don't really think it was a race issue, but in Gates defense, I am PRETTY sure that this was not his only incident with a white person; boiling point reached, pot exploded. I am not going to blame the cop, nor Gates. I have not read Gates' interviews or commentary from his POV. Sadly, there is not a tape of the scene......that would tell all, if there is more.

Total Blender: You are correct about whites being fearful on the topic of race, but blacks are too. There are enough open-minded whites that cleary understand, and are ashamed, about what happened in the past. Sadly, there are plenty more that really feel racial issues are dead and gone in this country. Then, more that wish things were back to pre 1960. Some blacks avoid the topic for fear of unjut requital.

While I was at Georgia Southern (2004 to be exact), I was profiled several times. Also, clubs there were turning away blacks from the "white" pubs/bars with an imaginary "VIP" list. Come to find out, there was no list. On top of that the "dress code" was pulled, yet again all black patrons adhered to the dress code, but were turned away by the "list".

So you see why people like myself and others really want the dialouge to be very open. It needs to be addressed and discussed more because if we really continue to act as if everyone "got over it" then we will never progress. To get over it is a slap in the face. As stated earlier, many of us on this board were not slaves, but not TOO long ago, my voting rights were still questioned. Freaking sad that it had to actually be VOTED on recently to "RENEW" our voting rights.

I honestly don't even like when people say "my (insert race) friend/buddy".

[81911SC]

Yea, funny how race wasn't an issue to anyone but Gates. And people will still defend Gates. LOLOL

[speedminded]

Here's the thing... when Gates brought up race, the officer lost his shit and arrested him. Rather than leaving the scene and relying on both the 911 tapes and the testimony of his fellow officers and witnesses at the scene to back him up, the officer chose to lure Gates out and haul him in for DC. Many Whites are fearful or hesitant when it comes to having an actual dialogue about race, and whenever there is an issue concerning race brought up on this board, the response from the "IA conservative peanut gallery" is always deny deny deny.

I'm not saying Gates was right for bringing up the subject of race, what I am saying is that the cop didn't handle it right when Gates did bring up the issue of race. Had the cop just left, and fallen back on the 911 call and the testimony of those at the scene this wouldn't be an issue. By un-necessarily arresting Gates he made it a damn circus. :2cents:

This all could have been finished EVEN IF THE GUY MOUTHED OFF TO THE OFFICER, when the officer arrested him I'm 100% positive the guy didn't sit there and act like a criminal. Despite what he was saying, when he was arrested I'm sure the officer looked at his ID and saw the address matching the one at the house.

AT THAT INSTANT THIS ALL COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED WITH A "Oh, so you live here? (rhetorical, doesn't even need an answer) Well I was just following up on some neighbors reports. Have a good night." Uncuff him, let him go home. The end. Probably never would have made it any further. Lets not place blame, but lets figure out why it didn't end right there???


Because cops are douchebags. :ninja:He REFUSED to give an ID, "flew into a verbal rage", and said it was racial profiling refusing to cooperate. Get your facts straight.

An officer arrives at the scene of a home reported to 911 for burglary after someone witnessed two men "breaking in". Black or white doesn't matter. He refused to cooperate when questioned. I would expect to be arrested if I did the same thing.

[Vteckidd]

Here's the thing... when Gates brought up race, the officer lost his shit and arrested him. Rather than leaving the scene and relying on both the 911 tapes and the testimony of his fellow officers and witnesses at the scene to back him up, the officer chose to lure Gates out and haul him in for DC. Many Whites are fearful or hesitant when it comes to having an actual dialogue about race, and whenever there is an issue concerning race brought up on this board, the response from the "IA conservative peanut gallery" is always deny deny deny.

I'm not saying Gates was right for bringing up the subject of race, what I am saying is that the cop didn't handle it right when Gates did bring up the issue of race. Had the cop just left, and fallen back on the 911 call and the testimony of those at the scene this wouldn't be an issue. By un-necessarily arresting Gates he made it a damn circus. :2cents:


Oh jesus H Christ are you fucking serious HAHAHAHA

Are you reading the same report? The Cop NEVER lost control. The only one that BLEW up was GATES. READ THE REPORTS AND THE other officers that were there.

I think you are delusional. I think its pretty clear that Gates acted like a jackass because a white cop was doing his job. Gates over reacted, called the cops mother names, and the cop , who kept his cool the ENTIRE TIME, arrested him for DC. Perfectly within his rights.

If you dont think so, next time you get pulled over try pulling 1/10th of the shit Gates pulled and see what happens.

Or do you really think the officer should tip toe around him cause he was black.

give me a break

[AirMax95]

Oh jesus H Christ are you fucking serious HAHAHAHA

Are you reading the same report? The Cop NEVER lost control. The only one that BLEW up was GATES. READ THE REPORTS AND THE other officers that were there.

I think you are delusional. I think its pretty clear that Gates acted like a jackass because a white cop was doing his job. Gates over reacted, called the cops mother names, and the cop , who kept his cool the ENTIRE TIME, arrested him for DC. Perfectly within his rights.

If you dont think so, next time you get pulled over try pulling 1/10th of the shit Gates pulled and see what happens.

Or do you really think the officer should tip toe around him cause he was black.

give me a break

Not sure if I read it in a report, or from another source, but I recall the incident was over after Gates ID was shown. Then Gates started the name calling. The cop THEN asked him to come outside and arrested him for DC.

My question is, can an officer arrest you for DC in your home, or must you be "out of" the house? Just asking not wanting to argue, lol.

Since he was arrested, why was the case dropped and Gates released? To prevent an uproar, or was the arrest purely to prove a point? That is where I feel some BS is floating.

Ok, and save me the BS that b/c the other officer was black that he "co-signs" for there not being any racial reasons. Like I said, I dont feel this was racially motivated, but just cause another black person was present does not validate that point.

Thanks.

[Total_Blender]

Oh jesus H Christ are you fucking serious HAHAHAHA

Are you reading the same report? The Cop NEVER lost control. The only one that BLEW up was GATES. READ THE REPORTS AND THE other officers that were there.k

I read the report and I read Gates' interview. Gates co-operated with the cop and showed him his ID. Cops are trained to deal with angry citizens and any cop worth a shit would have known to de-escalate the situation.

I'm not saying that the cop should have tiptoed around the situation just because Gates was Black. Regardless of Gates' color the cop should have left him alone after he cooperated and showed ID. He really had no further business on the property. The cop abused his power by baiting Gates to come outside. He might have been within his rights according to the letter of the law, but it was still a shitty use of the cop's discretion to handle the situation.

Every time a Black American does bring up the subject of race, White America (especially IA) gets its panties all in a wad. When, really, all that was required in this situation to determine racism was not involved was to just listen the the 911 call and hear the statements of the witnesses at the scene. Rather than doing that, you guys go off on your tirades against Jackson, Sharpton, and all the other "reverse racists".

The general conservobot attitude about race in the post-Civil Rights Act era just to sweep it under the rug and deny that race is an issue. But really, Blacks haven't been their due in the effort to achieve true equality. I don't think enough has been done to correct the problems of poverty, lack of access to education, etc that Blacks suffer disproportionately to other races.

And like AirMax95 said, there are a lot of markers like dress codes and "VIP lists" that are being used indirectly to discriminate against Blacks. We had the dress codes in Athens' "White" bars too. No camo, must wear collared shirts, no shorts, no bandannas, etc. I have walked in many "dress code" bars wearing a camo t-shirt, cargo shorts, and a bandanna and no one said anything to me. :thinking:

[tony]

Every time a Black American does bring up the subject of race, White America (especially IA) gets its panties all in a wad. When, really, all that was required in this situation to determine racism was not involved was to just listen the the 911 call and hear the statements of the witnesses at the scene. Rather than doing that, you guys go off on your tirades against Jackson, Sharpton, and all the other "reverse racists".

The general conservobot attitude about race in the post-Civil Rights Act era just to sweep it under the rug and deny that race is an issue. But really, Blacks haven't been their due in the effort to achieve true equality. I don't think enough has been done to correct the problems of poverty, lack of access to education, etc that Blacks suffer disproportionately to other races.

And like AirMax95 said, there are a lot of markers like dress codes and "VIP lists" that are being used indirectly to discriminate against Blacks. We had the dress codes in Athens' "White" bars too. No camo, must wear collared shirts, no shorts, no bandannas, etc. I have walked in many "dress code" bars wearing a camo t-shirt, cargo shorts, and a bandanna and no one said anything to me. :thinking:

Its good to know there are people with their eyes open. Racism whether hidden or blatant is still racism.

[speedminded]

Not sure if I read it in a report, or from another source, but I recall the incident was over after Gates ID was shown. Then Gates started the name calling. The cop THEN asked him to come outside and arrested him for DC.

My question is, can an officer arrest you for DC in your home, or must you be "out of" the house? Just asking not wanting to argue, lol.

Since he was arrested, why was the case dropped and Gates released? To prevent an uproar, or was the arrest purely to prove a point? That is where I feel some BS is floating.

Ok, and save me the BS that b/c the other officer was black that he "co-signs" for there not being any racial reasons. Like I said, I dont feel this was racially motivated, but just cause another black person was present does not validate that point.

Thanks.Gates initially refused to give identification showing residence then presented the officer with his college ID. The officer then requested the campus police to be present at the residence.

The only person that made it racial was Gates and those talking about it.

[eraser4g63]

You know what I am going to admit this, I racialy profile people every day. I have to it is part of my job. I know that if I go to the local trailer park and pick up the white male who is skinny and dirty and all sorts of just plain nasty that chances are he doesn't take care of himself and if I have reason to suspect drugs are being used im gonna guess meth. Same if I go to the Gov't subsidized housing and pick up a black male that is dirty, but this time I am gonna suspect crack. It is the same thing when people dont know their medical problems of history. If they are black male in there fourties chances are they have high blood pressure, or if I find one unresponsive and rule out every thing else I am gonna suspect sickle cell to be an issue. It is the way shit works in the world and it is the way people in the medical profession and Law enforcment are taught to think. And you know what sterotypes wouldn't be there if they didn't prove to be right a majority of the time. That person lives in a nasty trailer park, chances are you guessed it ther trailer and life style are nasty. As to this dumb ass who started the shit with the cops he deserved to be arrested because he did not respect the LEOs authority. If a white person had done this to a black cop every one of you left wingers would be singing a diffrent song.

[Vteckidd]

No what you guys are suggesting is the following:

Use past discrimination and racial problems to excuse/go looking for racial issues TODAY.


Thats what i just dont get. Its cut and dry. You arent a police officer you have no idea what to do in this situation. All we can do is go by the FACTS. The facts are CRYSTAL CLEAR.

Crowley is not a racist, he teaches anti-racial profiling classes, going on 10 years, and was appointed by his predecessor, a BLACK POLICE CHIEF.

Crowley responded to a possible burglary. He question the "suspect" as he saw fit to determine if this person really resided at this home. The "suspect" rather than cooperate, lashed out and raised his voice, yelling at Crowley BEFORE HE PROVIDED HIS ID.

Then After providing his ID, CONTINUED to threaten and chastize Crowley, Crowley arrested the man for DC.

Again, if you think this is wrong, i will pay $100 to ANYONE OF YOU THAT TRY THIS ACTION NEXT TIME YOU GET PULLED OVER. IF YOU DO NOT GO TO JAIL, I WILL GIVE YOU $100. I require a videotape.

Now the problem lies in this "its a race issue" crap. Its a race issue because GATES wanted it to be one. PERIOD. The office was doing his job. He didnt arrest Gates BECAUSE he was black, he arrested him because Gates was being an ASSHOLE.

Then we get this crowd of people that come out and say "omg profiling takes place, you dont know what its like to be black in america" blah blah blah.

My question to those people, how do you ever expect to be treated equally, if you are always going to hide behind the stereotypes? I mean here is a clear cut example of the Officer DOING HIS JOB WITHOUT PREJUDICE, and Gates says "Are you doing this because im black!!"

Flipside , what if Crowley WAS a racist? You can only cry wolf so many times.

And yeah, his supporting officer was black, and said crowley was right. That DOES mean something, because none of you want to take the POLICEs word, the cops word, the 911 cals word, etc. What else do you want?

Gates was an idiot and he got what he deserved.

Ill be waiting to get my $100 videotapes.......

[Vteckidd]

OH and Who is REALLY RACIST? Crowley doesnt have videos around like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRlIdFcWd5k&feature=player_embedded


A video has surfaced on YouTube of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. delivering a church speech in which he uses the N-word, rails against “racist historically white institutions in America” and accuses Newt Gingrich of attempting to block blacks from entering the middle class.

Gates became a lightning rod of racial controversy when President Obama defended the professor, who was handcuffed outside his home last week by police in Cambridge, Mass.

“We are trying to end what we call the one n-gger syndrome – you know, this place ain’t big enough for more than one of us,” said Gates in the video, filmed in 1996 in the All Souls Church in Washington, D.C.

“We in the academy have to know that our people, those of us who practice African-American studies, have to know that our people are under assault,” Gates said.

He continued: “Newt Gingrich can come in, that Contract for America is serious. You know what those guys have said? ‘Somehow, while we were asleep, all you white women and all you black people got into the middle class.’

“‘We are not sure how it happened. But the first thing we are going to do is we are going to shake the tree and any of y’all who can’t hold on, you’re all going back. And the second thing, we are going to set up barriers so no more of you all can get in here.’”

Gates was speaking to the church about his book, “The Future of the Race,” which he co-authored with radical black professor Cornel West. Gates was arguing for the continued employment of affirmative action.

“Without affirmative action we would have never been able to integrate racist historically white institutions in American society,” Gates said.

“I was able to go to Yale University because they were trying to diversify themselves,” he said. “Because of racism I never would have been allowed to compete on a more or less level terrain with white boys and white girls.

“What we’re trying to do is end ‘your mamma’ and ‘your daddy criticism,’ which is what African-Americans quite frankly have mastered in for 250 years,” he said.

In clearly racially divisive remarks, Gates blasted the state of North Carolina, drawing applause when he exclaimed, “I don’t even like the airplane to fly over North Carolina.”

One audience member pointed out American jazz icon John Coltrane was born in North Carolina.

“Oh, that’s true. I’m sorry. I’m sorry,” said Gates. “And they got good barbeque, too. So maybe it’s OK.”

[tony]

Trying to find racism in that statement, just don't see it. Maybe the definition of racism needs to be defined, because standing your ground is not being racist. Saying that is racist is no different than saying the Black Power movement was racist as well.

[Vteckidd]

Trying to find racism in that statement, just don't see it. Maybe the definition of racism needs to be defined, because standing your ground is not being racist. Saying that is racist is no different than saying the Black Power movement was racist as well.
wtf are you seriously still defending this? HAHA

WTF does he have to do to stand his ground? Nobody was challenging him! Crowley doesnt know him from you. He asked for identification, Gates over-reacted.

So you still think Crowley should have tip toed and pandered to the Prof because you think Gates was standing up to some kind of injustice. Gimme a break

[Vteckidd]

This guy is a HARVARD PROFESSOR and if he isnt smart enough to connect the dots.......

1) He was observed breaking into a house
2) officer asked for identification to make sure he really lived there

I mean its fucking simple. If he would have said "oh im sorry officer, i locked my keys inside, here is my ID"

Crowley prob would have said "no problem have a nice night"

Equality goes both ways you know

[tony]

Uhh... he's talking about racial injustice, whats racist about that? You have me mistaken on this issue, I said myself that Gates escalated this and I don't feel Crowley is racist. But the quote you posted, thats not racism on Gates' part.

[Vteckidd]

Uhh... he's talking about racial injustice, whats racist about that? You have me mistaken on this issue, I said myself that Gates escalated this and I don't feel Crowley is racist. But the quote you posted, thats not racism on Gates' part.
i thought you were talking about the police report.

The video , doesnt bother me one bit, but its more racism than ive seen out of this incident.

Evil White institutions? Sounds like this guy, who has a very good education and job, has a chip on his shoulder

[speedminded]

I read the report and I read Gates' interview. Gates co-operated with the cop and showed him his ID. Cops are trained to deal with angry citizens and any cop worth a shit would have known to de-escalate the situation.

I'm not saying that the cop should have tiptoed around the situation just because Gates was Black. Regardless of Gates' color the cop should have left him alone after he cooperated and showed ID. He really had no further business on the property. The cop abused his power by baiting Gates to come outside. He might have been within his rights according to the letter of the law, but it was still a shitty use of the cop's discretion to handle the situation.

Every time a Black American does bring up the subject of race, White America (especially IA) gets its panties all in a wad. When, really, all that was required in this situation to determine racism was not involved was to just listen the the 911 call and hear the statements of the witnesses at the scene. Rather than doing that, you guys go off on your tirades against Jackson, Sharpton, and all the other "reverse racists".

The general conservobot attitude about race in the post-Civil Rights Act era just to sweep it under the rug and deny that race is an issue. But really, Blacks haven't been their due in the effort to achieve true equality. I don't think enough has been done to correct the problems of poverty, lack of access to education, etc that Blacks suffer disproportionately to other races.

And like AirMax95 said, there are a lot of markers like dress codes and "VIP lists" that are being used indirectly to discriminate against Blacks. We had the dress codes in Athens' "White" bars too. No camo, must wear collared shirts, no shorts, no bandannas, etc. I have walked in many "dress code" bars wearing a camo t-shirt, cargo shorts, and a bandanna and no one said anything to me. :thinking:So i've read every post before and after yours 4 times and have yet to see any black figures mentioned other than quotes from Obama. I don't see anything regarding the Civil Rights Acts either. You're the only person bringing that up.

I'm one of the most anti-racial people you'll probably meet and I hate the National Alliance just as much as people that throw the race card for no reason. Ignorance is found in every color. Don't be one of them.

[tony]

i thought you were talking about the police report.

The video , doesnt bother me one bit, but its more racism than ive seen out of this incident.

Evil White institutions? Sounds like this guy, who has a very good education and job, has a chip on his shoulder

Most blacks that got to where he is have something to have a chip about. When glass ceilings are broken it takes a damn good person not to have a bit of bitterness cause it is almost guaranteed he had hurdles that his white counterparts did not. He is a black harvard professor, obviously he is an abnormality in society because of his race and his position. I'd be more disappointed if he did not voice his concerns and just went about his business not acknowledging the struggle he faced and that other minorities face.

Imagine if W.E.B Dubois said "You know what, I'm educated and got to where I am, I'm just going to be quiet about the injustices I experienced and saw and just live my life." Someone who is not black might not understand the implications of that type of thinking but just know every person that stands up and points out legitimate inequalities in society is doing it for those who are oppressed without a voice. Again, that is not racism.

[AirMax95]

Mike: The race of the other officer is not an issue, at least to me its not. A black person, co-signing on an incident does not affirm the incident.


In regards to the Gates video, it piggybacks reactions similar to the Rev. Wright sermons. You have to understand the scope of the discussions, as well as the WORDS used in context. They do not hate, nor are racist towards whites, they depise those that feel treating a human differently off the basis of skin color is "OK" or "Right".

As Tony stated, racism needs to be defined. Clearly the word racism has 10 billion definitions. Speaking out against whites (or blacks) that are 1) doing wrong, 2) intend to do wrong, 3) have done wrong, IS NOT RACISM. Gates, West, Dyson, etc. all know and work with whites that are not like their ancestors. Yet, they, like many of us here, realize that there are PLENTY that use racism to play on the ignorance of society.

Affirmative action had to be put in place to FORCE WHITE BUSINESSES to ALLOW BLACKS AND WOMEN a chance that MAJORITY of AMERICA would not!

[Vteckidd]

ahhh now we come to the root of the problem, exploitation.

You guys make this too easy :P

[speedminded]

Most blacks that got to where he is have something to have a chip about. When glass ceilings are broken it takes a damn good person not to have a bit of bitterness cause it is almost guaranteed he had hurdles that his white counterparts did not. He is a black harvard professor, obviously he is an abnormality in society because of his race and his position. I'd be more disappointed if he did not voice his concerns and just went about his business not acknowledging the struggle he faced and that other minorities face.

Imagine if W.E.B Dubois said "You know what, I'm educated and got to where I am, I'm just going to be quiet about the injustices I experienced and saw and just live my life." Someone who is not black might not understand the implications of that type of thinking but just know every person that stands up and points out legitimate inequalities in society is doing it for those who are oppressed without a voice. Again, that is not racism.Do you not agree that Gates and the media are the only people that have made it racial? It's clear that the media was wrong in their statements, from the caller saying it was 2 black men to them having backpacks. Neither of which were mention in the 911 call.

I've called 911 probably 25 times in my life. From DUI's to shootings I state my name, my phone number, and location before even mentioning the issue at hand. When describing a subject I state someones skin color just as I would the color of their shirt or their hair. It's a description that has nothing to do with race other than to assist in the identification of a suspect. Is that racial profiling? I guarantee you anyone going on their civil rights rants above will say it is.

[Vteckidd]

Affirmative action had to be put in place to FORCE WHITE BUSINESSES to PROMOTE LESS QUALIFIED MINORITIES


Fixed

[tony]

Do you not agree that Gates and the media are the only people that have made it racial? It's clear that the media was wrong in their statements, from the caller saying it was 2 black men to them having backpacks. Neither of which were mention in the 911 call.

I've called 911 probably 25 times in my life. From DUI's to shootings I state my name, my phone number, and location before even mentioning the issue at hand. When describing a subject I state someones skin color just as I would the color of their shirt or their hair. It's a description that has nothing to do with race other than to assist in the identification of a suspect. Is that racial profiling? I guarantee you anyone going on their civil rights rants above will say it is.

Just my personal opinion here but Gates wrongfully used Race in this specific instance, Obama jumped on it pre emptively without full knowledge of the situation which was not smart either.

Profiling is different from a description. When someone robs a bank and they give the description "Black male, early 20's, 5'8, 170lbs" thats not profiling..

[bafbrian]

This may or may not have been asked, but if the guy lives there, wouldn't he have a key to his own house?

[tony]

Fixed

lol I'm going to laugh that one off and chalk it up to ignorance of the subject. So all minorities hired through affirmative action are less qualified Mike? That post even if not intentional was one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

[AirMax95]

Mike, if you seriously believe the ammend to my statement that you made, then you have a bit of reading to do. Face value of Affirmative Action vs. Real World application sir.....please be joking.

I am done with the Gates incident; never though it was purely racial on the cops part, but I wanted the whole story. A police report still only tells one side, and we all know they are still possibly flawed, lol. Although, I am still going to read all the Gates interviews for more clarity.

Explain your "explotation" theory please.

[Vteckidd]

lol I'm going to laugh that one off and chalk it up to ignorance of the subject. So all minorities hired through affirmative action are less qualified Mike? That post even if not intentional was one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.
Im against affirmative action, 10000% . It promotes stuff like the firefighters up in New Haven

Whether it was a good idea or not, it has NOT done what it was designed to do. Instead it routinely promotes less qualified individuals over more qualified person in the terms of racial prudence.

That is not what America is about.

[speedminded]

FixedExactly. A qualified person will most likely get a job no matter their race. I'm not saying racism is absent in corporations but they are more concerned with their positive growth hiring the right person than the person themselves.

I have a friend that didn't get a job at Microsoft because he was WHITE. He was flown to their corporate office and went through several interviews over a couple days. In his 4th or 5th interview, going up the ladder one rung at a time, he was told he did not fit the description they were being requested to hire...or something along those lines. He said they were apologetic but it was out of their control making it blatantly obvious they had a specific "profile" to fill.

[Vteckidd]

You guys basically have said that if a black man does well in society in todays world, he has to speak out against all the racial injustice the evil white man has predicated on him. So when does it stop? when does a black man just become a man who did it on his own and we stop recognizing color?

Do you believe that a black man can grow up today, and have no racial problems and succeed? yes or no

[AirMax95]

Im against affirmative action, 10000% . It promotes stuff like the firefighters up in New Haven

Whether it was a good idea or not, it has NOT done what it was designed to do. Instead it routinely promotes less qualified individuals over more qualified person in the terms of racial prudence.

That is not what America is about.

So, what was it designed to do; curious if you know? Every plan put in place has been fubared by society. It was needed then, but the discussion of it know purely lies in the minds of the majority, and you know what I mean.

[speedminded]

This may or may not have been asked, but if the guy lives there, wouldn't he have a key to his own house?Supposedly the door was jammed due to a previous break-in attempt. Read the police report I posted and you can see the statement from the officer as he asked Gates about securing the house while he was being detained.

[AirMax95]

You guys basically have said that if a black man does well in society in todays world, he has to speak out against all the racial injustice the evil white man has predicated on him.

Do you believe that a black man can grow up today, and have no racial problems and succeed? yes or no


To answer your question, YES......the bumps as I like to call them, makes the process that more trying, but we overcome the resistance. Blatant civil unjust is WRONG and CAN supress; history has clearly proven that.

[Vteckidd]

So, what was it designed to do; curious if you know? Every plan put in place has been fubared by society. It was needed then, but the discussion of it know purely lies in the minds of the majority, and you know what I mean.
There was a time and place for the NAACP, there was a time an place for Unions, there was a time and place when Affirmative Action could have done something right.

But in the last 10-15 years, its done nothing but deepen the racial divide.

you should read
Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study Thomas Sowell
The Bell Curve Richard J. Herrnstein

[AirMax95]

There was a time and place for the NAACP, there was a time an place for Unions, there was a time and place when Affirmative Action could have done something right.

But in the last 10-15 years, its done nothing but deepen the racial divide.

you should read
Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study Thomas Sowell
The Bell Curve Richard J. Herrnstein

Like I said, I know the plan has been fubared....no question in that. What I am saying is that there is enough fear left in this society that would not allow to simply get rid of it. I don't like the excuse nowadays that the "man" has held someone from a job, BUT I realize that it still may occur in some cases.

[Total_Blender]

Again, if you think this is wrong, i will pay $100 to ANYONE OF YOU THAT TRY THIS ACTION NEXT TIME YOU GET PULLED OVER. IF YOU DO NOT GO TO JAIL, I WILL GIVE YOU $100. I require a videotape.
....

Theres a difference between being pulled over and being in your own home.

No one is accusing Crowley of being a racist, I don't even think he was racial profiling. I think he responded negatively to a challenge to his authority by arresting Gates.

A lot of White people who are critical of Black equality efforts like AA and the UNCF don't see that there are social and cultural issues that affect African Americans specifically. Many Whites have the "I made it therefore so can you" outlook. Sometimes thats the case, but sometimes it isn't. A White person isn't always going to observe limiting factors that are outside their own experience.

Consider the culture gap between the people who create standardized tests and the children who take them. One such standardized test was composed by a group of older, mostly White, affluent men from New England. Much of the questions, themes, and vocabulary used in the test were centered on sailing and maritime culture. Children growing up in the affluent New England culture did fine taking the test, but when the same test was given to inner city children in a predominantly Black area they did not do as well... not because they weren't smart, but because sailing just wasn't part of their culture.

Speedminded, somebody mentioned Jesse and Al at some point earlier in the thread.

[Vteckidd]

I just dont see any civil rights violations or racial issues in the harvard thing, so calling on that or making references to that is meaningless.

Ok Blender, park YOUR car in a police station parking lot. Break your window out, or try to slim jim into it. When an officer approcahes you, repeat word for word what Gates said to the officer and act the same way.

If you dont go to jail, ill give you $100

[AirMax95]

Mike, Sowell hit home here:

"Affirmative action in the United States has made blacks. . .who have largely lifted themselves out of poverty, look like people who owe their rise to affirmative action and other government programs."

Like I said, I have never made excuses, and I am blind to color. My strides come off the shoulders of those before me that fought for a change. To be where I am is not b/c of a program, rather b/c I am a bad ass in my field.

Yes....tooted my own horn, lol.

[Vteckidd]

Like I said, I know the plan has been fubared....no question in that. What I am saying is that there is enough fear left in this society that would not allow to simply get rid of it. I don't like the excuse nowadays that the "man" has held someone from a job, BUT I realize that it still may occur in some cases.
Of course it still happens, just like racism happens towards WHITEs but we dont have any legislative laws protecting us. We dont have a history month named after us, we dont have people pushing for reperations in congress lol.

You get my point i think.

When do we STOP. When is Affirmative Action going to STOP. When does a BLACK man become simply a MAN. I dont get it.

It just seems to me like there is NO organization out there right now that is really fighting for EQUALITY. Most of them are fighting to keep the racism alive so they can keep getting govt funds and have a purpose.

If every black man that succeeds has to give a speech like Gates did, and we will always have to have Affirmative Action, then we will NEVER have equality, ever

[Vteckidd]

Mike, Sowell hit home here:

"Affirmative action in the United States has made blacks. . .who have largely lifted themselves out of poverty, look like people who owe their rise to affirmative action and other government programs."

Like I said, I have never made excuses, and I am blind to color. My strides come off the shoulders of those before me that fought for a change. To be where I am is not b/c of a program, rather b/c I am a bad ass in my field.

Yes....tooted my own horn, lol.

You should read it, i think you would understand my point of view more. Most poeple read it and saw OMG YOU ARE RACIST MIKE. When in reality im advocating equality and being pro-active.

Could you as a black man have faced racism, ABSOLUTELY. Ill tel you what though, ive been the white kid in the gym at 10pm that feels uncomfortable because im white. Ive been called cracker, white boy, slow, unathletic, whatever by black kids before. I was a white basketball player. Ive been called Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, i never got called michael jordan. :)

Racism exists, of course, but we all deal with it. it exists everywhere, and i think Affirmitive action promotes it

[AirMax95]

Of course it still happens, just like racism happens towards WHITEs but we dont have any legislative laws protecting us. We dont have a history month named after us, we dont have people pushing for reperations in congress lol.

You get my point i think.

When do we STOP. When is Affirmative Action going to STOP. When does a BLACK man become simply a MAN. I dont get it.

It just seems to me like there is NO organization out there right now that is really fighting for EQUALITY. Most of them are fighting to keep the racism alive so they can keep getting govt funds and have a purpose.

If every black man that succeeds has to give a speech like Gates did, and we will always have to have Affirmative Action, then we will NEVER have equality, ever

My friend that is the question WE as a people have been trying to figure out forever. Did you read my long quotes a few pages back? Being black, or just being me (Tereance) in America are 2 different things because of this countrys history AND society still today.

Some of the best organization that fight for equality and a better country are grassroots orgs.

To counter your comments on Gates speech, if they didn't speak out, things would get worse. Progression, sir, in this respect is a steep ass climb. We have come far, but still a ways to go.

[Total_Blender]

Do you believe that a black man can grow up today, and have no racial problems and succeed? yes or no

I believe that people of all races will 100% without a doubt encounter racism at some point in their lives. I resent the premise of your question because its deeper than a yes/no question. It depends on what your definition of "success" is... material wealth, social status, education, staying true to principles, helping others in need, etc etc. It also depends on other variables like social class, genetics (not everyone can be LeBron or Jordan:ninja:), whether you are born into a supportive family, etc etc.

The question you are asking is "Can a Black man succeed in a White man's world?". But the real question at stake is "Is a Black man as likely as a White man to achieve success on his own terms?"

[AirMax95]

You should read it, i think you would understand my point of view more. Most poeple read it and saw OMG YOU ARE RACIST MIKE. When in reality im advocating equality and being pro-active.

Could you as a black man have faced racism, ABSOLUTELY. Ill tel you what though, ive been the white kid in the gym at 10pm that feels uncomfortable because im white. Ive been called cracker, white boy, slow, unathletic, whatever by black kids before. I was a white basketball player. Ive been called Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, i never got called michael jordan. :)

Racism exists, of course, but we all deal with it. it exists everywhere, and i think Affirmitive action promotes it

See, I don't think you are racist. I have studied arguements and debates, material fallacies, and things of the like. What gets people with you is that you tend to make some things (related to race) so cut and dry. I seem to see that you mean well, but you do aim blame at black people more, seemingly pushing the buck. Clarify your HONEST feelings and intentions from both sides. Remember, we didnt put ourselves through the torment in America's history.

Can you honestly say that whites have more of the blame, in regards to America's race relations? Even Affirmative Action was not twisted by blacks. Hell, it took a wrong turn when it was formulated.

You were in the gym when you were called those names, and I bet you can name more instances, but when majority of a race dislikes you based off color......OH_M_GEE....the feeling is astronomically worse. For US to sweep it away is not gonna happen, the bed was made and the country as a whole has been laying in it. I went though name calling, profiling, denial of entry into a public establishment.

When common sense and care for the fellow man smother ignorance and stereotypes, then we can say MORE progress has been made.

Obama elected to office, black CEO of fortune 500 company, MJ moonwalking on someones face......none of the aformentioned says "its over, move on". What it does show is that HARDER work will prevail.

[speedminded]

My friend that is the question WE as a people have been trying to figure out forever. Did you read my long quotes a few pages back? Being black, or just being me (Tereance) in America are 2 different things because of this countrys history AND society still today.

Some of the best organization that fight for equality and a better country are grassroots orgs.

To counter your comments on Gates speech, if they didn't speak out, things would get worse. Progression, sir, in this respect is a steep ass climb. We have come far, but still a ways to go.Speaking out does some times make things worse. Only because a black suspect calls racism (or racially motivated) was this an issue that turned into a media frenzy. If he presented his ID as requested and allowed the officer to do his job there would not have been a single issue.

Martin Luther Kings vision was for a color-blind society, that will never happen as long as minorities continue to throw the race card.

[AirMax95]

Speaking out does some times make things worse. Only because a black suspect calls racism (or racially motivated) was this an issue that turned into a media frenzy. If he presented his ID as requested and allowed the officer to do his job there would not have been a single issue.

Martin Luther Kings vision was for a color-blind society, that will never happen as long as minorities continue to throw the race card.

I can respect that, but minorties throw the race card many times because the majority plays it too. For you to say "...that will never happen as long as minorites continue to throw the race card" only addresses a piece of the problem. Whites still put the race card in the deck, shuffle it, and play it when they feel. It is left up to many of the intellectuals to catch it and call it out. Hell Sen. Barbara Boxer pulled it on CEO of the National Black Chamber of Commerce! She knew damn well what she was doing.

As I said, the Gates case, thus far, is a case of history overcoming reality. To me, the police report is one part, but reading the first few paragraphs sounds like BS to me. I don't know Gates personally, but for him to just say "Why because I'm a black man in America" so soon in the incidient seems like a croc of shiat. I am stopping there until I read the numerous Gates interviews.

[leobond001]

You should read it, i think you would understand my point of view more. Most poeple read it and saw OMG YOU ARE RACIST MIKE. When in reality im advocating equality and being pro-active.

Could you as a black man have faced racism, ABSOLUTELY. Ill tel you what though, ive been the white kid in the gym at 10pm that feels uncomfortable because im white. Ive been called cracker, white boy, slow, unathletic, whatever by black kids before. I was a white basketball player. Ive been called Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, i never got called michael jordan. :)

Racism exists, of course, but we all deal with it. it exists everywhere, and i think Affirmitive action promotes it

Affirmitive action just exposes the racism that is already there. i'm all for affirmitive action. no point in being a racist if you're gonna do it behind someones back

[BanginJimmy]

I have to give up on this thread. We have Tony, Total Blender and Airmax that will not see the black man at fault no matter what the situation is. I mean really guys, how much crystal clear evidence do you need to figure this out? Gates over-reacted and pulled the race card, Crowley was a complete professional throughout. There is NO other explanation to be had when you look at the evidence.

I keep hearing about how racism is alive and well in this country, we have whites still being blamed for something that happened in our grand and great grandparents days at the very latest and even that was only in the south. For the rest of the country it ended more than 150 years ago.

Its time to quit being alarmist, and realize that while racism does exist, not everyone is a racist just because they happen to be white. The Jackson and Sharpton, and now Gates crowd are making claims of racism a complete joke. The last 2 major cases of "racism" both happened to be complete BS. If you really want race relations to improve, look inward just as much as you look outward. Keep the idiots like Jackson, Sharpton, and Gates out of the news. Keep hateful people like Rev. Wright off the pulpit. Most important, speak out AGAINST people that make BS claims of racism.

[BanginJimmy]

Affirmitive action just exposes the racism that is already there. i'm all for affirmitive action. no point in being a racist if you're gonna do it behind someones back

Affirmative Action requires racial bias. Wait, I though AA was meant to help remove racial bias?

[preferredduck]

You should read it, i think you would understand my point of view more. Most poeple read it and saw OMG YOU ARE RACIST MIKE. When in reality im advocating equality and being pro-active.

Could you as a black man have faced racism, ABSOLUTELY. Ill tel you what though, ive been the white kid in the gym at 10pm that feels uncomfortable because im white. Ive been called cracker, white boy, slow, unathletic, whatever by black kids before. I was a white basketball player. Ive been called Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, i never got called michael jordan. :)

Racism exists, of course, but we all deal with it. it exists everywhere, and i think Affirmitive action promotes it

i lost my job because i was called a cracker in a corporate enviroment, who do i complain to and who do i suue because i bet if i used a racial slur back i would have been reamed and mr sharpton would be outside my house with a loudspeaker. seriously guys i was racially descriminated against at a company with 85% black employees and was picked on from the day i started but when i was called a cracker i was offended, my black supervisor heard him say it and guess who got in trouble and lost their job. . .me. my mother works for the gov't, a fellow employee was caught stealing yet she is not fired because she will sue becuase she is black, her boss even said so so please explain this fellas. it makes no damn sense.

[Vteckidd]

I actually have a personal story to tell about how i was discriminated against.

In 2002 i worked for Dobbins ARB as a contractor for Griffin Services. I had a bunch of different jobs over my tenure there, but i started out as a Landscaper. Pay was awesome, $15/hr, 7am-4pm , full benefits, etc, not bad for being 22 and to be honest i wasnt half the person i am today. but anyways, so i worked hard, i was at work everyday on time, whatever.

Well one day i was sick, i called in (after being there about 9 months without losing a day). I went to the doctor and got a doctors note. I actually got sick on a friday, called in, missed friday, came back to work monday.

Anyways no big deal about 3 weeks go by and i get called into my bosses office (white). He politely tells me that i missed a day few weeks ago and i had to be written up on it. I was furious! i had followed policy and didnt want anything on my record. He explained to me "Mike, this doesnt mean anything, it wont go on your record, its just a little warning dont make a big deal out of it". I fought even more, and then i was called into HIS bosses office. I was told then that i should just sign the little piece of paper, and it was just for "documentation" that i had missed a day.

Funny thing was that TONS of people had called in sick without a doctors note or even with one and never had to be "written up" like i had been written up.

Well when i walked out of the office after signing the piece of paper, they immediately called in a guy i worked with named Bill who was black. They fired him for missing 4 days of work without calling in (no call no show).

I later found out the only reason they wrote me up was because they were firing a black guy on the same day. They were preparing themselves in case bill decided to file a discrimination suit they could say "no way we wrote Corvey up too on the same day"

Interesting none the less

[tony]

I actually have a personal story to tell about how i was discriminated against.

In 2002 i worked for Dobbins ARB as a contractor for Griffin Services. I had a bunch of different jobs over my tenure there, but i started out as a Landscaper. Pay was awesome, $15/hr, 7am-4pm , full benefits, etc, not bad for being 22 and to be honest i wasnt half the person i am today. but anyways, so i worked hard, i was at work everyday on time, whatever.

Well one day i was sick, i called in (after being there about 9 months without losing a day). I went to the doctor and got a doctors note. I actually got sick on a friday, called in, missed friday, came back to work monday.

Anyways no big deal about 3 weeks go by and i get called into my bosses office (white). He politely tells me that i missed a day few weeks ago and i had to be written up on it. I was furious! i had followed policy and didnt want anything on my record. He explained to me "Mike, this doesnt mean anything, it wont go on your record, its just a little warning dont make a big deal out of it". I fought even more, and then i was called into HIS bosses office. I was told then that i should just sign the little piece of paper, and it was just for "documentation" that i had missed a day.

Funny thing was that TONS of people had called in sick without a doctors note or even with one and never had to be "written up" like i had been written up.

Well when i walked out of the office after signing the piece of paper, they immediately called in a guy i worked with named Bill who was black. They fired him for missing 4 days of work without calling in (no call no show).

I later found out the only reason they wrote me up was because they were firing a black guy on the same day. They were preparing themselves in case bill decided to file a discrimination suit they could say "no way we wrote Corvey up too on the same day"

Interesting none the less

Discrimination - treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Nobody wrote you up for being white, straight, religious reasons, whatever. They were just covering their ass, doesn't matter if Bill was Black or White.

[tony]

i lost my job because i was called a cracker in a corporate enviroment, who do i complain to and who do i suue because i bet if i used a racial slur back i would have been reamed and mr sharpton would be outside my house with a loudspeaker. seriously guys i was racially descriminated against at a company with 85% black employees and was picked on from the day i started but when i was called a cracker i was offended, my black supervisor heard him say it and guess who got in trouble and lost their job. . .me. my mother works for the gov't, a fellow employee was caught stealing yet she is not fired because she will sue becuase she is black, her boss even said so so please explain this fellas. it makes no damn sense.

Your employer should have had an EEOC office, filing a complaint and documenting situations like this is the best way to deal with it and bring it to light. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of race.

That said it doesn't remove the fact that the majority of discrimination comes from Whites, its just the way it is and the way it has been and bringing that to light is not using the race card, its creating an awareness.

[AirMax95]

I have to give up on this thread. We have Tony, Total Blender and Airmax that will not see the black man at fault no matter what the situation is. I mean really guys, how much crystal clear evidence do you need to figure this out? Gates over-reacted and pulled the race card, Crowley was a complete professional throughout. There is NO other explanation to be had when you look at the evidence.

I keep hearing about how racism is alive and well in this country, we have whites still being blamed for something that happened in our grand and great grandparents days at the very latest and even that was only in the south. For the rest of the country it ended more than 150 years ago.

Its time to quit being alarmist, and realize that while racism does exist, not everyone is a racist just because they happen to be white. The Jackson and Sharpton, and now Gates crowd are making claims of racism a complete joke. The last 2 major cases of "racism" both happened to be complete BS. If you really want race relations to improve, look inward just as much as you look outward. Keep the idiots like Jackson, Sharpton, and Gates out of the news. Keep hateful people like Rev. Wright off the pulpit. Most important, speak out AGAINST people that make BS claims of racism.

No need to give up. You have clearly skipped several of my post. I said, and Tony also I believe, this incident was not racially motivated by the officer, and also that Gates was out of line.

With that said, you feel racism end more than 150 years ago is so far off the mark it would take me the better part of my work day to correct. Abe Lincoln signing a document did wonders on paper, and you know what the kick back was.....lynching and continued slavery. Remember the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s.....you get my point. A piece of paper means jack shit when the majority can have their way. No one feels every act by a white person is racial. The "whites" that are blamed occurs due to the fact that MANY WHITES STILL PRACTICE the mentality of the "old south". Dude, I can't stress it enough, until you walk in a black, caramel, or mocha Americans shoes, you will never understand. Your friends can express to you what occurs, but you can relate to the frustration 100%. A simple counter to my arguement would be "You didn't live in those times", but I studied the history and was hit hard on a personal level.


i lost my job because i was called a cracker in a corporate enviroment, who do i complain to and who do i suue because i bet if i used a racial slur back i would have been reamed and mr sharpton would be outside my house with a loudspeaker. seriously guys i was racially descriminated against at a company with 85% black employees and was picked on from the day i started but when i was called a cracker i was offended, my black supervisor heard him say it and guess who got in trouble and lost their job. . .me. my mother works for the gov't, a fellow employee was caught stealing yet she is not fired because she will sue becuase she is black, her boss even said so so please explain this fellas. it makes no damn sense.

That should not have occured and I'm sorry you had to encounter that type of treatment. Not to point blame, but I am prettty sure in your orientation there was a piece that covers the process of handling this situation. If your supervisor did not correct it, then on to his boss. No help there, on the the corporate level. Still doesnt work, call a lawyer. In regards to the lady stealing and threatening to sue, sounds like there was no sufficient evidence, else the gov't would have thrown the book at her.

[leobond001]

Affirmative Action requires racial bias. Wait, I though AA was meant to help remove racial bias?
in the work place yes it was meant to remove, but if the people both black and white still have it( mostly out of anger that a black person was hired an the fear that I'm workin with all these white pol) it will remain and only diversafy the workplace.

[Vteckidd]

Discrimination - treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Nobody wrote you up for being white, straight, religious reasons, whatever. They were just covering their ass, doesn't matter if Bill was Black or White.

Treating me different from everyone else because i was WHITE and they were firing a BLACK person, that isnt somehow racially motivated?

I mean the people doing this to me were white, but doesnt that say something?

They didnt pick me cause i was black, they picked me because i was white.

[tony]

Treating me different from everyone else because i was WHITE and they were firing a BLACK person, that isnt somehow racially motivated?

I mean the people doing this to me were white, but doesnt that say something?

They didnt pick me cause i was black, they picked me because i was white.


Did management come to you and say "you're white so we're going to write you up?" No they were covering their ass as to NOT seem like they were discriminating.. that is what I find interesting about that. lol I'm not going to act like I have a better understanding of your situation, but the way you explained it.. it seems like you're stretching it to seem like a victim of discrimination when really they just used you as a tool to avoid a lawsuit.

Furthermore policy is policy, if you felt like you were being treated unfairly you should have taken it up the chain. If the policy was to write someone up for missing a day or two then so be it, you should've been written up. If the policy was not, put your foot down if you feel like you're being treated unfairly.. by even discussing injustice that is all we are doing, putting our foot down. Call it reverse racism, making excuses or whatever but I know what is going on out here.

[Vteckidd]

I was chosen to be written up even though i did nothing wrong, because i was white. End of story. I got a mark on my record because i was WHITE.

Its actually funny when i think about it, but that was my point. I received demerits at my job because a black guy decided not to come into work. I was picked on because i was white, merely so they could cover their own ass.

Racism or not, that is a form of discrimination

[AirMax95]

Mike, they used you as a pawn. Why were you chosen probably will never be known. It sounds like if not you, another white person would have been chosen to cover their ass. Most likely, they did it because they had poor documentation on the black employees tardiness, they let several white employees "slide" on tardiness (on purpose or accident), or they were simply fearful of an uproar.

"Jim, we gotta fire this Bill guy today. Well, Rob, before you do, document a white guy fast so they can't say we haven't written up/fired any white employees. Well, that Mike guy missed a day last week, he is smart and will understand what we are doing."

[BobbyFresco]

This thread has veered so far offcourse...:lmfao:


As I previously stated in this thread, when it comes to the original subject at hand, had he presented the proper credentials or identified himself when asked to do so, there would have been a different outcome to the situation.
I don't buy into the justification of his actions because he supposedly deemed the police officer to be racist nor should his course of actions be condoned.
This is not an example of racism. Not even a little.

The problem with racism in this country is not as cut and dry as some would like to believe however, I'm of the opinion that along with many other issues currently facing this country, we have become a society that is plagued by its inability to take accountability for our actions.

Cases like this one are counter productive in the sense that when a situation that warrants scrutiny based on real examples of racism comes up, ppl will write it off as just as another "boy that cried wolf" kind of deal. This country is becoming desensitized to real issues in regards to racism because of bullshit like this. The time has come for Blacks to stop hiding behind racism as a shield for inapropriate behavior and failure. White people aren't keeping us from going to school and educating ourselves...White ppl aren't forcing Black men to rob, sell drugs, murder, and commit whatever other multitude of crimes for which Black men are being incarcerated in record numbers....White ppl aren't lynching us anymore....We are killing ourselves...White people aren't impregnating Black women and leaving said women to raise multiple children on their own.

Conversely....

To say that because YOU have nothing do with what your ancestors may have taken part in or to proclaim that because this country elected a Black president that racism is not an issue is foolish.... it is not indicative that racism does not exist and the belief that racism is not a substantiative issue is asinine.
Black people didn't initiate Affirmative Action. Black people were not responsible for Black History Month. Black people as a whole have never had as much power in this country as you'd like to attribute.

Racism is alive and well. It is real, whether you want to see it or not.
There are still towns and cities in America where segregation is prominent. Police officers still profile. Judges still hand out sentences to Blacks that are more severe than that of their White counterparts. Predominantly Black schools receive funding and resources that are disproportianate to that of schools in the suburbs.


Reading stories from others, I figured I'd share one of my own.

It was the summer when I was about 10 or 11, I believe.
My parents, my sister, and I were driving back from a vacation in FL. I remember being woken up to a tap on the car window. It was a cop shining his flashlight in the car with his gun drawn. My dad had been pulled over by 4 cop cars. The cops pulled my dad over because his Range Rover fit the description, supposedly, of a stolen car.They pulled him out of the car, guns out, detained and questioned my father for about an hour, even though they had searched the car and had seen a. us(kids) and b. luggage and such that would indicate that we were on a trip.Even though his ID, insurance info, and registration matched. I can't recall exactly where we were but I do remember we were in the boonies somewhere, on the side of the road and my sister and I were freaking out as my mom attempted to calm us down.

This was my first encounter with racism in the form of racial profiling and something that I will never forget.

I just want to add in closing that for those of you that hate the "race card" being "used" and have an issue with this new school "reverse racism" way of thinking, being so against racism and all, should advocate for an end to racism in any and every form...Not just against Whites but Blacks and every color and ethnic group in between. Racism is racism, no matter the victim or the perpetrator.

[LizBiz]

So this is definitely OFF TOPIC when it comes to the OP but I wanted to share my current experience and then maybe tell me that racism is over.

The neighborhood I reside in is in Henry County Ga, the neighborhood is rather small, there is one way in and one way out. There are quite a few children that use the school bus system to get to Middle and High School. For 2 years the bus has stopped at the beginning, middle, and end of the mile long main road of the neighborhood.

Call it coincidence if you want, but all the African American kids get on at the end of the main road. This year the school system has decided to do away with that particular bus stop to "decrease the # of stops the bus driver has to make" so any children that used to get on at the end of the road must now walk half a mile to the middle of the road to catch the bus.

You can argue that "the BOE didn't do it on purpose, they don't know that's where all the African American kids get on at" valid point. BUT they will have the same bus driver that they have had for the past 2 years. The same bus driver that has had numerous "problems" with "those kids" in the past. Maybe I'm thinking too hard here. But it doesn't seem right to me. Why THAT stop? Why make any child walk half a mile to their bus stop? And "there's nothing we can do about it" says the BOE. We will see about that.

[AirMax95]

Its funny, I looked at past threads on "race" in this forum. Amazingly, the same people are preaching the same things.

[BanginJimmy]

This thread has veered so far offcourse...:lmfao:


As I previously stated in this thread, when it comes to the original subject at hand, had he presented the proper credentials or identified himself when asked to do so, there would have been a different outcome to the situation.
I don't buy into the justification of his actions because he supposedly deemed the police officer to be racist nor should his course of actions be condoned.
This is not an example of racism. Not even a little.

The problem with racism in this country is not as cut and dry as some would like to believe however, I'm of the opinion that along with many other issues currently facing this country, we have become a society that is plagued by its inability to take accountability for our actions.

Cases like this one are counter productive in the sense that when a situation that warrants scrutiny based on real examples of racism comes up, ppl will write it off as just as another "boy that cried wolf" kind of deal. This country is becoming desensitized to real issues in regards to racism because of bullshit like this. The time has come for Blacks to stop hiding behind racism as a shield for inapropriate behavior and failure. White people aren't keeping us from going to school and educating ourselves...White ppl aren't forcing Black men to rob, sell drugs, murder, and commit whatever other multitude of crimes for which Black men are being incarcerated in record numbers....White ppl aren't lynching us anymore....We are killing ourselves...White people aren't impregnating Black women and leaving said women to raise multiple children on their own.

This is very similar to what I said in a previous post. This country will NEVER get past racism if blacks keep using it as a crutch and whites are infected by white guilt. Cases like this, and especially considering Gates position, it makes me wonder exactly what is being taught in these african studies classes. Are they teaching to hate whitey, or are they teaching the evolution of blacks in this country? Are they just teaching the brutality of white slave owners, or are they including the brutality of black slave owners?



Racism is alive and well in a small percentage of the population. That will never change, but I do challenge ANYONE to find a case of institutional racism as prevalent as affirmative action.

[BanginJimmy]

Its funny, I looked at past threads on "race" in this forum. Amazingly, the same people are preaching the same things.

This includes you right?

[AirMax95]

This includes you right?

Yes, I will never change MY stance or views on the topic of race relations. I agree both "sides" have lots of work to do. My personal knowledge, studied knowledge, and inferred conclusions are not ones that the most common of people cannot understand. I am about to leave work, so I will not type my fingers off, rather save it for a thread that is open (off the Gates crap).

For instance, your post always seem to blast black people and say that We need to get past it and move on. Correct me if I am wrong. Just read your response to BobbyFresco's post. He addressed both sides, in a well thought out reply, yet you still ignore the part where white people STILL have a hand in the issue. Do you follow me? Now, I'm not saying NOR implying that you are racist (others may, but I dont throw the flag too often), but as I addressed Mike, your post come off VERY one sided. Aside from the Gates incident, you have always posted replies in this manner.

Feel me?

[BobbyFresco]

This is very similar to what I said in a previous post. This country will NEVER get past racism if blacks keep using it as a crutch and whites are infected by white guilt. Cases like this, and especially considering Gates position, it makes me wonder exactly what is being taught in these african studies classes. Are they teaching to hate whitey, or are they teaching the evolution of blacks in this country? Are they just teaching the brutality of white slave owners, or are they including the brutality of black slave owners?



Racism is alive and well in a small percentage of the population. That will never change, but I do challenge ANYONE to find a case of institutional racism as prevalent as affirmative action.


While I can respect that you agreed with me on some of my views, you still neglected to address the second part of my post. White guilt has nary a thing to do with REAL racism, not that which is perceived.

[BanginJimmy]

Conversely....

To say that because YOU have nothing do with what your ancestors may have taken part in or to proclaim that because this country elected a Black president that racism is not an issue is foolish.... it is not indicative that racism does not exist and the belief that racism is not a substantiative issue is asinine.

I will go as far as to say that institutional racism is an non-issue. Outside of a some backwoods towns and counties, it simply no longer exists. As for individuals, NOTHING can change someone's personal views unless that person realizes they are in the wrong and actively changes them.


Black people didn't initiate Affirmative Action. Black people were not responsible for Black History Month. Black people as a whole have never had as much power in this country as you'd like to attribute. Racism is alive and well. It is real, whether you want to see it or not. There are still towns and cities in America where segregation is prominent

Never said they did, nor have I inferred that. I only mention AA because a piece of legislation that encourages, and in some cases requires, racial biases cannot be used to remove racial bias. If anything, it will only increase them. Only 45 years ago blacks had zero power, now the President is black. Does that mean all racism is gone? Not by a long shot, but it is proof that racism as an everyday fact of life is gone.


Police officers still profile.

Yes they do, and profiling is not the horrible thing that people make it out to be. EVERYONE profiles people in their everyday life. You would not be able to function in society if you didnt profile people.

Profiling on the basis of race alone is a completely different story. Sitting here trying to think of a way to say what I am thinking and I am drawing a blank. I simply cannot think of a reason to use race as a basis for profiling.




Judges still hand out sentences to Blacks that are more severe than that of their White counterparts.

Before I will swallow this one or comment further I would need to see a breakdown showing the differences between the sentence for a white and black judge.




Predominantly Black schools receive funding and resources that are disproportianate to that of schools in the suburbs.

School funds are drawn from the counties or cities that the schools are located in and service. A lower income school district will have less funds than one in a wealthy district. That is an economic issue, not a racial issue.

[preferredduck]

No need to give up. You have clearly skipped several of my post. I said, and Tony also I believe, this incident was not racially motivated by the officer, and also that Gates was out of line.

With that said, you feel racism end more than 150 years ago is so far off the mark it would take me the better part of my work day to correct. Abe Lincoln signing a document did wonders on paper, and you know what the kick back was.....lynching and continued slavery. Remember the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s.....you get my point. A piece of paper means jack shit when the majority can have their way. No one feels every act by a white person is racial. The "whites" that are blamed occurs due to the fact that MANY WHITES STILL PRACTICE the mentality of the "old south". Dude, I can't stress it enough, until you walk in a black, caramel, or mocha Americans shoes, you will never understand. Your friends can express to you what occurs, but you can relate to the frustration 100%. A simple counter to my arguement would be "You didn't live in those times", but I studied the history and was hit hard on a personal level.



That should not have occured and I'm sorry you had to encounter that type of treatment. Not to point blame, but I am prettty sure in your orientation there was a piece that covers the process of handling this situation. If your supervisor did not correct it, then on to his boss. No help there, on the the corporate level. Still doesnt work, call a lawyer. In regards to the lady stealing and threatening to sue, sounds like there was no sufficient evidence, else the gov't would have thrown the book at her.


you are correct it should not have occured but it did. i followed the chain of command up and nothing was done. i called corporate and after that was when i was in trouble. the sad part is my complaint was used against me after going to corporate and i really wanted to punch a few people in the face that day because that sorry piece of crap needed that smirk off his face, including my supervisor. i have the time documented and it was a call center so everything said in the floor was recorded whether on the phone or not so it was heard because it was yelled across the aisle. even the girl who sat next to me looked at me like "i hope he did not hear that." there were also several other things that i have documented that happened that was not right. i have a pinched nerve in my neck and had to leave one day because i was throwing up i was hurting so bad. well i was told to go to the ER or get written up. i went to the ER and the next morning i had a write up to sign for it. two weeks later one of the 8 not so nice people up there who was a black lady mysteriously lost her voice and was able to be absent from work for 4 days with no Dr's note, nothing, and also had no previous history of a health condition. another thing that bugged me was the breaks in the evenings. if i were gone more than 15 minutes i had a search party looking for me where as these two girls averaged a 25 minute break every night. tis was also complained on with that incident and we had to sign a log book, well thats all the manager went off of(he was white). well a manager from another department said he could easily look at the log in and log out times on the dailer system and their computer but this was not done. i have not found an attorney that will take the case even though the manager who gave me the info is willing to come forward but i would love for something to be dome.

out of the 100 people in my office i liked all but 7 of them and they were the ones who always picked on me about being "the white boy from the suburbs" etc. a couple of folks went to bat for me with the write up to the hospital because they were in the bathroom when i was puking and noticed it wasnt from a hangover, 3:30 in the afternoon and i should not have that problem. i would like to bust that companies ass for it and the guy who made the comment to be unemployed for sure.

the point im making here is it happens on both sides of the fence and to all races but you really don't hear about cases like mine on the news because no matter how hard i tried to get any attention on this people looked the other way. take the hate crime bill for instance, i used to collect bad debt for a personal finance company. this black lady blocked me in the driveway and called me every bad name you could think of and almost threw a punch at me. if she would have it would have been a minimum sentence, no hate crime, etc. but if i got out of the car and said the magic word and backhanded her i would b in jail for 25 years for a hate crime. do you guys get what i'm saying here, its bassackwards on some shit.

also those 7 that gave me crap loved me when they had car trouble, even when my supervisors battery went dead in his lexus.