Would you respect Nascar more if the cars were closer to production spec?

[EJ25RUN]

So recent news appeared that the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger MIGHT be turned into Nascar silhouettes for 2010. This is still awaiting approval but the main thing is they will be a lot closer to their production car counterparts. I realize a unibody construction is impossible in Nascar because they need those tube chassis for the crashes that "just happen" in the sport "at just the right time" and the safety of the drivers isn't as good as it would be in a tube cage.

Anyways, my question is, if Nascar were to use Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger bodies for their "stock car" shells, would you be more interested in the sport?

I ask because the Mustang and Challenger are sold with V8 engines (sohc and ohv), are RWD, are two door, and have manual gearboxes. Unlike the present offerings for Nascar from both brands.

Here's Jon Sibal's rendering of a Challenger and even though it is just his interpretation, its a really good looking machine. I would look at it in the same way i compare a WRC car to its production counterpart or even a SuperGT car to its production counterpart.

The bottom line is the spread between a modern Nascar "stock car" wouldn't seem as such a joke from its production counterpart as it does today and has for the last 15 years.

http://jonsibal.com/bpimages/nascar_1LR.jpg

I especially like the idea because it brings back my favorite era of Nascar (no really), the pre 1990's cars.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2265/2276338926_8afb8cab5d.jpg?v=0

Newest update.


Bet you weren't expecting this.

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[Z0_o6]

That is a fantastic idea. That was always one of the biggest annoyances with Nascar for me. I hated the fact that they were basing these "stock cars" off of front wheel drive cars that had V6's, automatics only, and were family sedans. I would CERTAINLY be a lot more interested in the series if just a little more believability was introduced.

[EJ25RUN]

Let me just say that even though i voted that i'd give the sport some respect, i see myself as a road racing enthusiast and i see no reason why the two road courses a year can't be turned into five.

Laguna Seca, Road America, Road Atlanta, Miller Motorsport Park, Barber Motorsport Park, and plenty of other venues would be just fine. At the Mitty every year, a Nascar class is run and the racing is great. The F1 issue of the tracks being too slow/unsafe does not apply for Nascars.

I think modern Nascar fans (the main reason i have a distaste for the sport) always find it necessary to ridicule other forms of racing.

I remember one time, a Nascar fan told me the World Driver's Championship had as much sense in the name as the Baseball World Series. Right...because all the races are held in one country and most of the drivers, engineers, mechanics, principles, owners, aerodynamacist, and constructors are all from the same place. :rolleyes:

Anyways, Nascar DOES need more road courses and they need to stop modifying them for themselves. Yes, they goto Infineon (Sears Point) but they use an alternate version of the course which skips the Carousel.

The Carousel is the best part of the track!

[JEY$JDM]

Yeah..
Hendrick and I think a couple more teams test at Road Atlanta bcuz of sum dumb rule that they cnt test at tracks they race at, so...

For one, that would be a sweeet idea for the Mustang & Challenger...

But, two, I dont see them doing that (at least not that exact set-up) because of the C.O.T that came out a couple years ago.

I hate the fact that NASCAR only has two road course races a year...
I mean, I LOVE Watkins Glen, and Infineon.. But Road ATL would be SWEET..

They DO need more road races. I grew up watching NASCAR, and my father worked for NASCAR on a hand full of different teams for years, but when I got to be 12 or 13, I became obsessed with JDM cars/racing and NASCAR just didnt cut it for meh anymore bcuz of their 2 road races.

[Elbow]

They have NASCAR test days at Road Atlanta, unsure why they don't run there. I love when they test they lift their front wheels so high coming out of 5 lol.

As for the bodies, it's the racing itself that bores me, if they ran more road courses I would watch, oval racing in general is just boring to me personally.

[EJ25RUN]

But, two, I dont see them doing that (at least not that exact set-up) because of the C.O.T that came out a couple years ago.



This is an imporant point in that even though the rendering in the OP looks great, i doubt the racecar will look anything like that. The shape requirements in Nascar would rule out any body individuality.

I hope problems like this don't keep happening....Hmm....those stickers look like they are of a Charger for sure. :rolleyes:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/10/franchitti-avenger.jpg



They have NASCAR test days at Road Atlanta, unsure why they don't run there. I love when they test they lift their front wheels so high coming out of 5 lol.

As for the bodies, it's the racing itself that bores me, if they ran more road courses I would watch, oval racing in general is just boring to me personally.

I believe i watch the Indy 500 each year and not many others. Especially not Nascar ones.

I cant sit there and listen to them call the Daytona 500 the greatest race in the world. Ever heard of Le Mans you idiots?

[JEY$JDM]

Yeah, they dont let the teams have any individuality at all with the cars.

[JEY$JDM]

I cant sit there and listen to them call the Daytona 500 the greatest race in the world. Ever heard of Le Mans you idiots?

LOL for real though...

[Vteckidd]

you know i am NOT a fan of nascar, but it does take an incredible amount of skill to go 180mph balls to the wall for 500 miles.

I rode in an old stock car an we went 140mph at AMS and it was insane, i cant imagine doing it for 5 hours or 500 miles and going 40mph faster

It takes consistency, endurance, immense talent.

[AnthonyF]

I would enjoy nascar more if it wasn't so controlled. Yes, this gives you more competition but hardly any strategy besides pitting. It's just a swarm of bumble bees going in circles. I miss the good old days when the cars were purchased, modded up, and raced!

Oh well. Nascar is mainly about sponsers and making money. Can't blame them

-Ant.

[Elbow]

you know i am NOT a fan of nascar, but it does take an incredible amount of skill to go 180mph balls to the wall for 500 miles.

I rode in an old stock car an we went 140mph at AMS and it was insane, i cant imagine doing it for 5 hours or 500 miles and going 40mph faster

It takes consistency, endurance, immense talent.

I think road racing requires much more skill.

[81911SC]

Yeah, they dont let the teams have any individuality at all with the cars.But there are reasons for that. Pro or against they are there for a reason.

[Vteckidd]

I think road racing requires much more skill.
Im not denying that it doesnt.


Hell theres a lot of sports that take MORE skill, but thats not the point.

YOu cannot deny the amount of talent it takes to do what Nascar Drivers do. NO ONE on this board could do 1/5 of what they do every weekend. And a lot of them run back to back races in other series.

It is grueling

[81911SC]

Vteckidd,
You didn't mention being a foot away from people the whole time either. :lmao:
Hell, what if you're in the middle, then you got people on both sides. Fuck that.

[EJ25RUN]

Vteckidd,
You didn't mention being a foot away from people the whole time either. :lmao:


A foot is a loooong space.

http://www.motogpblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/rossi-lorenzo-catalunya-2009.jpg


I was hoping it wouldn't come to this. Vteckkid, oval racing isn't what is at debate. If 190 in a Nascar is impressive than why not 227 in an Indy car?

Oh, and fender to fender isn't as amusing at tire to tire.

http://www.pantherracing.com/assets/03%20recap%20COVER%20COVER.jpg

Let's get back to the car side of things, not the racing.

[81911SC]

Save for another thread. :D

[EJ25RUN]

Save for another thread. :D

me?

[81911SC]

Na, the racing part.

[AnthonyF]

Vteckidd,
You didn't mention being a foot away from people the whole time either. :lmao:
Hell, what if you're in the middle, then you got people on both sides. Fuck that.

That's what I dont like. They all just group up and thats it. Then, when there is an accident, half the field is gone.

-Ant.

[WTF?]

i hope it does go that way to me thats how nascar was when i watched it as a little kid now its nothing but money and sponsors i used to watch it all the time no ill watch for about 5 min then change the channel. psersonally if they went to something like what was in post number one i would start watching again

[WTF?]

and i agree they need more road courses

[dazn]

If Nascar ran more road races, then those would still be the only ones I would watch. Same with IRL. Just not a fan of the oval. It definitely takes skill, just not the kind Im interested in. But with that said, I would watch an IRL oval over a NASCAR oval just because of the whole stigma of NASCAR.

[redrumracer]

id like to see what would happen if they would open it up for all makes

[Elbow]

If Nascar ran more road races, then those would still be the only ones I would watch. Same with IRL. Just not a fan of the oval. It definitely takes skill, just not the kind Im interested in. But with that said, I would watch an IRL oval over a NASCAR oval just because of the whole stigma of NASCAR.

X2

[BKgen®]

If they're still planning on driving in circles, count me out. :no:

[AFSil80]

Once the Monte Carlos and Thunderbirds quit looking like the factory cars, it went downhill and became a money game.

If they went back to appearing like an actual car, I'll start paying attention again.

But I tell ya what. I'm goin down to Daytona this weekend for the Rolex GT race and the NASCAR race. I'll give my impressions on both afterwards, haha.

[JEY$JDM]

A couple NASCAR drivers going to be in the Rolex race.. Kyle Bush and.. I forget the other guy (or guys)???

[AFSil80]

Who cares, they're driving for Chip Ganassi.

I really want to see the #12 Penske DP car win. And of course, I want #87 Farnbacher Loles Porsche of Leh Keen and Dirk Werner to continue the winning streak and extend their championship lead.

[StraightSix]

I think getting the cars to look more like the production counterparts would help NASCAR out quite a bit. The series has very nearly become a spec series with the introduction of the COT. I doubt, however, that the cars will begin to look more like the production cars, though.

I don't think the COT chassis will accommodate body shapes that are more angular.

NASCAR teams also test at VIR, FWIW. Personally, I think a Cup race at VIR would be great to watch. It might even be better than seeing a Cup race at Road Atlanta.

[SPOOLIN]

make them drive the other way sometimes.

[EJ25RUN]

make them drive the other way sometimes.

They used to do that in Auscar which was Australian Nascar.

[Z0_o6]

I personally went to AMS to watch a Nascar race a couple years ago, and everybody was so excited about going because the track is so fast and blah blah blah, but honestly, even in person where there is supposed to be some excitement I was bored out of my friggin' mind after 30 minutes or so. I agree that it takes a lot of skill, and they are certainly hauling ass, but as a spectator the sport is just soooooo boring it's almost unbearable. I give tickets away almost every time there is a Nascar race at AMS because I get them for free and I know other people get way way more enjoyment out of it than I would.

[AFSil80]

My way of looking at the racing is this:

4 hrs of turning 4 left turns at AMS with almost equal cars across the board.

or

12 hrs of 12 collective turns at Road Atlanta with 4 classes of cars. Guess which one I find more entertaining? :D

[Sport1.3]

I think they should just change the Name "stock car" to "More than you can Afford Pal"

[Humphrizzle]

If they're still planning on driving in circles, count me out. :no:


haha same

[Humphrizzle]

http://www.centralcoastweb.com/nsxb/media/pics/nsxpo2001/realtime07.JPG

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8619/0420081680w2.jpg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_elAhhhSxQh0/RX54yHMczaI/AAAAAAAAABk/tD34lHkdsXc/s400/PD_and_Nick_RDA.jpg



i like watching these cars race...

[Z0_o6]

Those thing's got hemi's in'em? lol

[speedminded]

I personally went to AMS to watch a Nascar race a couple years ago, and everybody was so excited about going because the track is so fast and blah blah blah, but honestly, even in person where there is supposed to be some excitement I was bored out of my friggin' mind after 30 minutes or so. I agree that it takes a lot of skill, and they are certainly hauling ass, but as a spectator the sport is just soooooo boring it's almost unbearable. I give tickets away almost every time there is a Nascar race at AMS because I get them for free and I know other people get way way more enjoyment out of it than I would.I will instantly go to sleep in the stands at a NASCAR event. The only thing that will wake me up is the instant silence of a crash as the fans suck all the air out of the track. My head pops up looking for burning cars tumbling through the air...if not back to sleep I go until the last 5 laps of the race.

It's bullshit in the in-field, the general public can't be near the hot pits. They act like it's super secret experimental technology running or something. All the cars are the exact same with a 50 year old suspension design yet you can't be near any of it. Guess they just expect 9/10 fans to be too sloshed to be near the pit crews. :doh:

[Mike Lowrey]

My main problem with Nascar is going around in circles. If they races road circuits, I would watch. This is the same reason IRL never got my attention, as I was more interested in CART.

[chameleon30038]

need more road courses ftw!

[EJ25RUN]

I guess i should have expected this to be a Nascar racing debate vs car debate.

But yeah, at the end of the day, if the racing is a bore, who cares whats racing.

[©hris]

Nascar should be setup like GTS.... should be Power to weight matching.... anything else goes. aero, computers, tires, wheels, etc... teams should be able to do whatever they want to the cars as long as they fall into a certain power to weight catagory.

[Ocelot]

I can't watch it the way it is, I want tracks with curves! not a big oval :(

[2turbo4u]

Asscar for the lose!

[81911SC]

I wish people knew more about it. But no, that would make too much sense.

[EJ25RUN]

I wish people knew more about it. But no, that would make too much sense.

No necessarily. Consider the people that don't like F1. I explain it to many but they still refuse to want to know about.

Race fans come into liking a sport on their own. Knowledge of that sport comes from watching it, participating in it, and again liking it.

I don't like Nascar but i still know a lot about it. That only comes from the way i follow all levels of racing.

[Incontt]

anyone do iracing.com? It has definitely shown me that Nascar type racing requires a different skill set. I do decent in the road course cars but will be about 1-2 seconds off from the very top dogs. When those same top dogs come over to the oval side they are behind me. Why is that since its just turning left? Its because of the different skill set required for each.

[jnv255]

The only time I watch Crashcar is when it's a road race, same for Indy

[VooDooXII]

Yes...whatever happened to "stock" cars?

[jorgen]

id give it respect if they quit calling it a 'stock' car race

[HypnoToad]

No necessarily. Consider the people that don't like F1. I explain it to many but they still refuse to want to know about.

Race fans come into liking a sport on their own. Knowledge of that sport comes from watching it, participating in it, and again liking it.

I don't like Nascar but i still know a lot about it. That only comes from the way i follow all levels of racing.

i dont like FI or just bout any open wheel racing

im much biggger fan of the production style cars,where cars differ more.

but i believe my fav form of racing to watch is MotoGP,i always catch myself watching it on tuesdays.

[civicmantim]

It would definitely make it more interesting and would be more of a challenge,instead of one driver winning all the time.

[SampaGuy]

Even though I don't like ovals, IndyCar happened to be on TV last weekend and I have to say I was pretty damn entertained. Nascar is still boring though.

[EJ25RUN]

Even though I don't like ovals, IndyCar happened to be on TV last weekend and I have to say I was pretty damn entertained. Nascar is still boring though.


I watched the Kentucky race. :ninja:

[EJ25RUN]

Bet you weren't expecting this.

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http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs066.snc3/13361_168753999470_18764624470_2928200_3672736_n.j pg

Not that this changes anything.

[40th GT]

So does that mean they'll use the Camaro for the Chevy version?

And to answer the original question, I'd respect NASCAR more if drivers other than ones from the Hendrick team won more. More road racing would be nice too.
I don't care about the cars being close to production spec, because if they started racing stock Fusions and Chargers, that'd be one long race. And with this economy, I highly doubt the big 3 would fund racing programs. The days of Plymouth Superbirds and and Ford Galaxies equipped w/ 427 ci big blocks from the factory are long gone, and I wouldn't expect them to return.

[teh_mugen18]

Personally, i find Nascar boring because of the unidirectional oval/circle that the cars all repeat for hours upon hours, and i hate seeing it on TV when they have Nascar coverage shows that last for 4hours at a time..I immediately change the channel. On the other hand, if any of the other road course endurance races come on, i usually keep it on the channel and catch as much of it as i can because its actually interesting to watch. lol.

[1990wade]

THEY ARE STARTIN TO BE TO STRICT.....ITS NOT EVEN RACING ANYMORE....I MEAN RUBBIN IS RACIN PEOPLE LET THEM RACE FOR DAMN SAKES... AND IM REALLY GETTIN TIRED OF JIMMIE JOHNSON WINNIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP ITS STARTIN TO GET OLD.....