Self Defense or Excessive Force?

[tony]

In a nutshell, 2 young men come in to rob a pharmacy when the pharmacist shoots one in the head and chases the other out the store. The problem comes in when he comes back in the store, grabs another gun and fires 5 more shots into the guy he shot in the head. I'll keep my personal opinion to myself.. I just want to see the responses.


Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.

Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.


District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting 16-year-old Antwun Parker once in the head, but not in firing the additional shots into his belly. The prosecutor said the teenager was unconscious, unarmed, lying on his back and posing no threat when Ersland fired what the medical examiner said were the fatal shots.

Anthony Douglas, president of the Oklahoma chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called it an "execution-style murder" and praised the district attorney for bringing charges. Ersland is white; the two suspects were black.

Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge.

"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.

Ok I do have to say that last quote by the mother is everything that is wrong with America and specifically the black race in America.. the boy was robbing a store and she's upset that he was shot, even if it was 5 times.

[Echonova]

Self Defense. If you are shooting to kill in fear of your life there is nothing wrong with making sure the job is done.

[green91]

Eh he shoulda just made the shot count the first time and left it at that. Infact he should have shot both of them right hte first time.

[RedEj8]

I say it's self defense. I think the five shots after were not needed if the man was neutralized after the first shot to the head, but there still should be no charges brought upon him.

If you're going to try and rob someone, expect consequences, such as death..

[FAM0U5]

In a nutshell, 2 young men come in to rob a pharmacy when the pharmacist shoots one in the head and chases the other out the store. The problem comes in when he comes back in the store, grabs another gun and fires 5 more shots into the guy he shot in the head. I'll keep my personal opinion to myself.. I just want to see the responses.





Ok I do have to say that last quote by the mother is everything that is wrong with America and specifically the black race in America.. the boy was robbing a store and she's upset that he was shot, even if it was 5 times.

The clerk could have ended the treat in a different matter, but I could understand were the mother is coming from since her child was already laid out. The owner didn't have to shoot the robber several more times.. knowing he could of search the robber without risk. This just seems that it might turn racial..

[Echonova]

Eh he shoulda just made the shot count the first time and left it at that. Infact he should have shot both of them right hte first time.Indeed. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for the criminals. He knew the risks when he walked into that place to rob it. Had it been the other way around and they shot the pharmacist came back and shot him again it would be because of their "troubled up-bringing".

[Homer Simpson]

how'd he live with a shot in the head? if took 5 more shots for it to be fatal?

Oh yea, self defense.

[green91]

Crooked politics.. the medial examiner said the second set of shots were the fatal ones.

[HypnoToad]

i dont feel sorry for the for the boy that got shot,i feel sorry for the mom that lost her son,cause he was a dumbass.

[Echonova]

how'd he live with a shot in the head? It happens. The guy was Wolverine apparently
if took 5 more shots for it to be fatal?

Oh yea, self defense. Indeed.

[RedEj8]

Indeed it does happen. It could've been mostly a graze instead of a direct hit.

I don't know why he felt he needed to finish the guy off. Maybe his head was so fucked up the guy felt bad and decided to just finish it. Or maybe he wanted to rid the world of criminals one at a time.

As for the mother..It's all her fault, she should probably just end her life as well. [/sarcasm]

[_Christian_]

I say excessive force. I agree with the the conclusion from the DA and med examiner. The initial round was fired in self defense but the additional 5, which caused the fatality, were fired when he clearly wasn't a threat. I don't see that as self defense, no matter how much the scumbag is in the wrong. I do however strongly disagree with the murder one charge.

[tony]

Initially when I posted this I felt the robber got what he asked for but after shooting someone in the head I think you've neutralized the threat. Murder in the 1st degree? ehh.. I think that is a bit harsh.

[BanginJimmy]

First shot, self defense, no one will argue that. I guess he should have fire 1 or 2 more into him on the way out the door, then he would have been good.

Shots 2-6, excessive, but 1st degree murder is just as excessive. 2nd degree man slaughter would fit better. My guess is that the murder charges are because of the NAACP making this a racial issue.

Criminal's mother, piece of shit. The only thing she forgot to do was tell us how her son was such a good boy. The kid deserved what he got, but the manner in which it was done was wrong. I do feel sorry for this guy though. 2 pieces of shit put him in that situation now he will suffer the consequences for handling it poorly.

[Echonova]

Assuming the first shot was non-fatal - Criminal lives, sues pharmacist (and with today's courts) wins every penny that guy will ever make.

Pump 5 more rounds

Assuming the first shot was fatal - What more harm can a couple ounces of lead do?

Pump 5 more rounds

[Echonova]

If the pharmacist gets off, I'll bet no-one tries to rob that store again...

[Z0_o6]

self defense all day. that piece of shit kid and his mother both deserved it. i feel absolutely NO sympathy for this kid for robbing a store and getting his dumb ass killed. the pharmacist being charged for an incident that he didn't start is complete bullshit.

[stillaneon]

Indeed. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for the criminals. He knew the risks when he walked into that place to rob it. Had it been the other way around and they shot the pharmacist came back and shot him again it would be because of their "troubled up-bringing".


The only flaw in that logic is the fact that a parent wouldn't take that much responsibility.

It would sound more like," he was such a good kid. It was all the rap music and video games or the crowd he associated with."

[Echonova]

vBulletin Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to stillaneon again.

[quickdodge®]

Initially when I posted this I felt the robber got what he asked for but after shooting someone in the head I think you've neutralized the threat. Murder in the 1st degree? ehh.. I think that is a bit harsh.

I agree. Later, QD.

[n2daizo123]

Self defense. The final shots are considered a mercy kill to end the pain of the initial shot. Its just a shame that the second one got away.

[TIGERJC]

excessive, but who cares since he was a criminal. 1 less blk idiot that can spread his seed and produce more idiots.

[koukis14]

This one reads a tad diffferent



A little before 6:00 p.m., last Tuesday, two armed men rushed into the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in Oklahoma City, and demanded money and drugs. The store had been robbed two years earlier, a robbery in which the store’s employees had been forced into a back room and severely beaten.

However, this time the store had a security system with doors armed with magnetic locks, which could only be opened from the inside. The masked-men apparently knew this and waited for someone to exit, at which time they pushed a board in front of the closing door and rushed into the pharmacy.

Once inside, they demanded all of the cash and narcotics, two female technicians ran into the back room. But the pharmacist, Jerome Ersland who wears a large back brace, and is still recovering from recent surgery, could not run. But he could defend himself.

The robbers began shooting at him, with one bullet grazing him on the arm, he said he heard another round whiz past his ear.

Ersland recalled: "All of a sudden, they started shooting. They were attempting to kill me, but they didn’t know I had a gun. They said, ‘You’re gonna die.’ That’s when one of them shot at me, and that’s when he got my hand.”

Ersland grabbed the semi-automatic Kel-Tec .380 in his pocket.

"And that’s when I started defending myself,” he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun.”

Ersland also kept a much larger pistol in a nearby drawer, which he was able to retrieve, a Taurus Judge revolver. At that point, the second robber took off. However, the other robber was now getting up off of the floor, despite the head wound.

Ersland emptied his clip into the chest of the wounded robber, who turned out to be 16-year-old Antwun Parker.

"I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I’m crippled,” said Ersland. Once outside, he saw a third black male sitting in a car with what appeared to be a shotgun.

Ersland said: "I pulled out my ‘Judge’ and pointed it right between his eyes and he floored it.”

Police arrested the man in the car which turned out to be stolen, after he crashed it a few blocks away. The other robber is still at large, he is described as a black male in his 20s, 5 feet, 7 inches tall, and weighing 175 pounds. The suspect was last seen wearing a red shirt and dark pants.

Ersland went back into the store and found his two technicians safe but shaken.

Ersland said: "I asked if the girls were all right, and they were in the back crying. I was glad to know they were alive. We were lucky and I’m glad I defended us, because I feel that a person has a right to defend themselves at their home or at their work. People deserve to be safe and not be afraid of people that want to take money when they don’t work for it.”

As if the attempted robbery was not enough, an angry black mob gathered outside the pharmacy later that night, shouting and accusing Ersland of being a racist because he had killed the teenaged thug, who was black.

"I just regret anybody would get killed. But if I wouldn’t have been here, there would have been three people killed — the other pharmacist and the two techs.”

"I was able to return fire and protect the girls’ lives. God was helping me.”

[Echonova]

This one reads a tad diffferentReps and the plot thickens...

[Big Baller]

This one reads a tad diffferent

Yeah I would say that reads a little different. The first reads like a left wing columnist wrote it and the second reads like a NRA member wrote it.

I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

Bottom line if the kid even wiggled like he was going to get up I would have unloaded on him.

[BanginJimmy]

If the second article is accurate, charging this guy with murder is beyond ignorant. If anything, this guy should be given an award for ridding the American public of a menace free of charge.

[tony]

Its funny, I search for the text of the second version of the story and all that comes up are sites that for gun owners and right wingers, the quote I posted came from ABC News. Seriously some people will go to great lengths to push their agenda.

I'd love to be biased seeing as how the man is retired Air Force but that doesn't mean I'll alter the story in support of the guy.

[koukis14]

If the second article is accurate, charging this guy with murder is beyond ignorant. If anything, this guy should be given an award for ridding the American public of a menace free of charge.


I knew we would agree on something.

[seriousb13]

This one reads a tad diffferent

God was helping me. :lmfao: Always works.

[asshowl]

now that you read about the two versions of the incident heres the vid
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eed_1243733340

[seriousb13]

the dead robber and the convicted pharmacist deserves it

[BanginJimmy]

State NAACP president Anthony Douglas says the judicial system should be allowed to run its course and the organization won't take sides on Ersland's guilt or innocence


This made me laugh. People act like the NAACP is a legitimate organization when anyone with half a brain knows that it is just a mouthpiece for blaming whitey.


BTW, that video doesnt show anything. So I will stand by my original statements. If the kid wasnt a treat the pharmacist needs to be charged, although 1st degree murder is excessive. If the kid was getting up, then this guys should get an award.

[RedEj8]

Shit..If the guy really did have a Judge, 5 shots weren't needed. With 410 shells in a revolver,one could do the job. Doesn't look like he shot the guy 5 times in the vid either...

[tony]

This made me laugh. People act like the NAACP is a legitimate organization when anyone with half a brain knows that it is just a mouthpiece for blaming whitey.




There is so much socially wrong with that statement I wouldn't know where to start breaking it down.. but it wouldn't matter anyway. I guess the Civil Rights movement was oppressive to whitey too huh?

[NevrNufTorq]

just sucks either way, but he was getting robbed so i dont beleive he should be charged with anything at all. :2cents:

[preferredduck]

the video shows robbers coming in guns drawn. it doesn't look like he stood over him and uloaded 5 rounds, where's the blood splatter if he was that close. 1st degree murderr is too harsh for this. and if the story is different than whay the kids mother told then this man should not go to jail. Narcotics is big $$ these days.

[F8d2Blk]

It's unfortunate but the kid probably was moving and it that type of situation one armed thug could mean the other one is armed too. It happened pretty fast too. Your adrenaline takes over. So would you even take a chance to frisk the other guy if he is still moving?

[choiiiiiiiii]

bullshit. it's like the homeowners who are getting sued for shooting burglars caught in the act of breaking into their house..

[BanginJimmy]

There is so much socially wrong with that statement I wouldn't know where to start breaking it down.. but it wouldn't matter anyway. I guess the Civil Rights movement was oppressive to whitey too huh?


Then let me rephrase, because this has nothing to do with the civil rights movement.



State NAACP president Anthony Douglas says the judicial system should be allowed to run its course and the organization won't take sides on Ersland's guilt or innocence

This made me laugh. People act like the current version NAACP is a legitimate organization when anyone with half a brain knows that it is just a mouthpiece for blaming whitey.


Tony, we both know the NAACP's stance on this case. The guy is white and he shot a black kid, The white guy is at fault.

You show me one case where the NAACP says it was the black guys fault and the white guy did the right thing and I will edit both of my statements.

[eraser4g63]

And you know the robbers families are all over the news saying" They ( the robbers) were getting their lives together and they were such good people".... I say honestly that it was self defense, unfortunately the issues is that by the general publics' standards ( who will more than likely never be in that situation) it looks like over kill.

[Terror]

Yeah he really fucked up by shooting him more after the initial headshot... personally if i shot someone in the dome.. id prolly leave it at that.

EDIT: didnt read the second, more in detail posting.

I wouldve busted that faggot too.

[preferredduck]

bullshit. it's like the homeowners who are getting sued for shooting burglars caught in the act of breaking into their house..


better one for ya, nt only do they get sued for shooting, but if aq burgalar falls through your skylight and breaks his leg he will own your house afterwards. thats an old one but true. they come to rob you blind and possibly hurt or kill you in the process and they just sue and win. what a justice system we have today. and it looks like it's going to get even better with this new judge obama put in.

[preferredduck]

i wonder if the second kid will turn himself in since "he is such a good kid". im sorry but if someone came at me with a gun drawn i guess i would go to jail b/c i kind of take my life seriously.

[armyed]

I think he should have reloaded the Judge and emptied it in the guy again just to make a point to other dirt bag criminals that if you come there to rob them you will get killed. No wounding people. Im so tired of people whinning about excessive force on someone who rolled up on you with a gun and was wanting to kill you. Also the NAACP are the new racists. They keep the illusion going that racism is rampid so they can stay in business. They need to be abolished. They used to be an upstanding and a reputable organization when they were needed but now they are like Unions and not needed and making shit up to keep money in there pockets. This incident has nothing to do with blacks and whites. It has to do with 2 armed men came into a mans store with loaded guns and shot at him. Im pretty sure if the guys were white the pharmacist would have done the same thing, I dont think he would have said "oh these guys are white so im gonna give them what they want and im gonna let them shoot me" :screwy: just my 2 cents

[slowinmidga]

I have no symphathy for the robber but I do feel the pharmacist was a little excessive. If he would have intially pumped him with all 6 rounds it would have been all good but he left came back got another gun stood over him and then shot. A cop couldnt do that so he cant either

[Total_Blender]

After he neutralized the first robber he shouldn't have killed him. The first robber probably would have turned over the one who got away. So really, he got one robber when he could have gotten both. So the use of excessive force really didn't do him much good.

[Vteckidd]

Initially when I posted this I felt the robber got what he asked for but after shooting someone in the head I think you've neutralized the threat. Murder in the 1st degree? ehh.. I think that is a bit harsh.
The charges wont hold up because it has to be pre-meditated. There is no way a robber who comes in with a handgun shooting , and the clerk killing him is premeditated. Plus how do you know he wasnt dead the first few shots that were fired?

I think he if you shoot to kill, you shoot to kill. PERIOD. I Personally have no problem with what he did. Because if he had NOT had a gun, he would be dead right now.

You walk into a business with a gun with the intention of robbing it, you should expect to die

Furthermore, its easy to say "the robber was neutralized" what if he wasnt. This isnt a trained professional, its a store clerk. he was prob scared for his life. He made sure the guy on the floor was DEAD, and not coming back.

I would have done the same thing

[mocha latte cupcake]

self defense all day long.

if he emptied the clip into various parts of his body before he ran out the door the first time... would there have been any issues? don't think so. its the fact that he came back. either way, i agree that he should be let go. i'm tired of people getting away with this i robbed them but they shot me bs. another criminal down :goodjob: way to go pharmacist dude!

[Alan®]

saw some of the security tape from this incident and there is no way in hell these charges will stick you cant see what condition the robber is in once he hits the floor.

[ArK]

self defense and is the pharmacist not black?
with the name jerome?

[The Creeper]

I laughed at the fact of the angry mob outside the pharmacy later that night. every single one of those people should be shot. I hate the stupid pussy ignorance of our society today. If this pharmacist gets in any kind of trouble, all my faith in this country is going out the window. How in the hell could you feel any kind of bad for the robbers? They came in guns drawn, they both deserved to die horrible deaths at this point. Hell, if the pharmacist took out a machete and cut the piece of shits head off, I would be ok with it. This piece of shit tried to rob and kill him, he has all right to shoot that mother fucker as many times as he wants in my book. Fuck the pussy liberal tree hugging society we have become.

[Danny]

Its funny, I search for the text of the second version of the story and all that comes up are sites that for gun owners and right wingers, the quote I posted came from ABC News. Seriously some people will go to great lengths to push their agenda.

I'd love to be biased seeing as how the man is retired Air Force but that doesn't mean I'll alter the story in support of the guy.


exactly why alot of people say STFU unless you were there, looks like it goes for this case too.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I'm interested in knowing, of the people who responded to this thread, who's black and who's white... to see if "they" (you don't know if I'm black or white so stfu) as a group had a differing opinion than the "other" people. :rolleyes:

Personally, I think the one shot in the head was good enough. Yeah, he went a bit overboard but srsly, how many ppl have been in a situation like this old man was? I'm sure at that point he was scared, running on pure adrenaline, impulse.... feared for his safety so he wanted to make sure the guy didnt get back up. Who knows? I'll have a better answer when someone puts a gun in my face or tries to rob me. It's bullshit that this guy may be charged.

[The Creeper]

I'm interested in knowing, of the people who responded to this thread, who's black and who's white... to see if "they" (you don't know if I'm black or white so stfu) as a group had a differing opinion than the "other" people. :rolleyes:

Personally, I think the one shot in the head was good enough. Yeah, he went a bit overboard but srsly, how many ppl have been in a situation like this old man was? I'm sure at that point he was scared, running on pure adrenaline, impulse.... feared for his safety so he wanted to make sure the guy didnt get back up. Who knows? I'll have a better answer when someone puts a gun in my face or tries to rob me. It's bullshit that this guy may be charged.

I'm white. But to me this has nothing to do with race. If those two guys were white, and the pharmacist was black and did the same thing, I would still be on the pharmacists side. I don't care if he was afraid for his life and that's why he ensured the robber was dead, hell I would be on his side if he was just spiting that dirty piece of shit. Our country is so sad these days, people taking criminals side and shit. Reminds me of those stupid mexicans that were trying to sue that Texas Rancher. I am all for Vigilante Justice.

[One_Bad_SHO]

I'm white. But to me this has nothing to do with race. If those two guys were white, and the pharmacist was black and did the same thing, I would still be on the pharmacists side. I don't care if he was afraid for his life and that's why he ensured the robber was dead, hell I would be on his side if he was just spiting that dirty piece of shit. Our country is so sad these days, people taking criminals side and shit. Reminds me of those stupid mexicans that were trying to sue that Texas Rancher. I am all for Vigilante Justice.

Word.

Whatever happened to the Texas rancher anyway?

[nreggie454]

If you are willing to use deadly force in a robbery, then nobody should cry for you if you get killed. I don't care how it happens. They would have done the same thing if he didn't shoot them first.

[patrick4588]

self defense all day. there is no way that it should even be considered murder. i hate to repeat what every1 in this thread said already, but basically "fuck an armed criminal". threaten ppl and be ready for the consequences. he deserved it 100%

[ShooterMcGavin]

i'm not the jury, but i do have to say good riddance.

[Buttons]

I say excessive force. I agree with the the conclusion from the DA and med examiner. The initial round was fired in self defense but the additional 5, which caused the fatality, were fired when he clearly wasn't a threat. I don't see that as self defense, no matter how much the scumbag is in the wrong. I do however strongly disagree with the murder one charge.

this is what i'm thinking exactly.

[BanginJimmy]

this is what i'm thinking exactly.

Unless you saw a different video than I did, there is no way you can tell if the little punk was a threat or not. It wasnt on the video.

[tony]

He was on the ground with a bullet in his head, do you think he posed an immediate threat?

Better yet put a cop in the mans position, would that cop still have his job today? No, he'd be behind bars.

[The Creeper]

He was on the ground with a bullet in his head, do you think he posed an immediate threat?

Better yet put a cop in the mans position, would that cop still have his job today? No, he'd be behind bars.

A cop is a trained professional in this type of situation, and the pharmacist is not. He handled the situation to the best of ability given the circumstances. This criminal deserves no mercy and deserved what he got IMO.

[tony]

A cop is a trained professional in this type of situation, and the pharmacist is not. He handled the situation to the best of ability given the circumstances. This criminal deserves no mercy and deserved what he got IMO.

Mercy is not a trained skill.

[Gutling]

He did not ask for them fucktards to come in there and threaten to kill him. They made that choice, they put his life above some cash and drugs. If they had shot him before he shot the robbers, they would have likely went back there and killed the two girls as well. I wish he would have caught the other one running out and put a few in his head as well.

[Buttons]

i wasn't able to watch the video, because i was working, but i'll watch it.

[BanginJimmy]

He was on the ground with a bullet in his head, do you think he posed an immediate threat?

Better yet put a cop in the mans position, would that cop still have his job today? No, he'd be behind bars.


As already mentioned a cop is trained to handle those situations. Also, a cop is, and should be, held to a higher standard than your average citizen.


Unless the DA can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the criminal wasnt a threat in any way, this guy should walk.

[Total_Blender]

The real outcome of this case will depend on whether or not the jury decides the robber who got shot was still a threat after the first shot.

There is a fine line between self defense and manslaughter/murder. That this guy went back and emptied his gun into an (arguably) incapacitated person seems like the latter. Do I feel sorry for the perp? No. The real question here is not about the perp or his crime at all, is about whether the pharmacist acted his own right of self-defense and the defense of his staff in taking a human life. Theres no law on the books in America that explicitly gives anyone the right to take a human life. The use of deadly force in self defense is the exception... not the rule.

Heres a selection form the works of professor of law Wik E. Pedia:



[edit] Imperfect Self-Defense

In some jurisdictions, malice can also be negated by imperfect self-defense. Self-defense is considered imperfect when the killer acted from his belief in the necessity for self-defense, but that belief was not reasonable under the circumstances. If the belief in self-defense were reasonable, then the killing would be considered justified and not unlawful. Where the belief is unreasonable, the homicide is considered to be voluntary manslaughter.

[edit] Intent to Kill

Intent to kill is normally present during a voluntary manslaughter case, but is not required. Since most heat of passion and imperfect self-defense killings involve intent to kill, typically voluntary manslaughter involve intentional killings. However, there are occasions when intent to kill is not present, although malice is, for example, when a person responds to oral provocation by engaging in physical altercation. The provocation is sufficient so that his response is justified. Should the response result in the death of the provoker, the crime is either voluntary manslaughter or second degree murder, depending on the jurisdiction.

[/wikipedia]

Anyway, if this guy does get convicted he will probably get some kind of manslaughter charge, he might even plead it down to probation depending on the state laws where he's at.

[BanginJimmy]

While not technically a law, there has been enough case law and statutes set to call self defense an affirmative defense.

[The Creeper]

Mercy is not a trained skill.

I know, but that isn't where I was going with the cop statement. A cop in that situation only wants to disarm the perp, and use deadly force only if all else fails. A normal guy working in a pharmacy is going to go by his instinct to survive, and do what he feels is necessary to keep the perp from harming anyone else. Cops rarely shoot to kill, not because of mercy, but because it is their duty not to kill a perp unless he 100% has to. Either way, it is obvious that a police officer and a normal citizen are to be held at two different standards.

[TheChosenOne]

Phuck that. I don't care what any of these ignorant people on this forum say, but this is a messed up up situation. Yes, the fact that the 2 boys were shot in self-defense is non-arguable, but the going back for more, is just sick.

Just because he was motivated by self-defense, when the kid was laying there with a bullet in his head, I doubt that those last five rounds defended anything but the little itch he had inside of him telling him to shoot the lifeless nihilistic threat that lay slain before him. :(

Is it a crime??? no

Is it very, very sick, and barbaric??? Without a doubt. :no:

[gerardojdm]

bunch of ignorant ass idiots. Some of the things i read sound more like racism. I had a fucking mexican rob me and im a damn mexican myself. Sometimes i wish i could stick my hand in my monitor so i could pop up yours and slap some sense into people like yall.

Explain how 5 white men beat 1 mexican to death and only get 6 month in jail.

In this case, if Caucasian tryed to rob me, ill knock him out unconscious then ill grab my shot gun and blow his head right off. Or Ill pull out a knife and cut his head off. How does that sound?

[The Creeper]

bunch of ignorant ass idiots. Some of the things i read sound more like racism. I had a fucking mexican rob me and im a damn mexican myself. Sometimes i wish i could stick my hand in my monitor so i could pop up yours and slap some sense into people like yall.

Explain how 5 white men beat 1 mexican to death and only get 6 month in jail.

In this case, if Caucasian tryed to rob me, ill knock him out unconscious then ill grab my shot gun and blow his head right off. Or Ill pull out a knife and cut his head off. How does that sound?

If he was trying to rob you, then who cares. And if the mexican that was beat to death was illegally here, then the sentence makes sense to me.:goodjob:

[BanginJimmy]

If he was trying to rob you, then who cares. And if the mexican that was beat to death was illegally here, then the sentence makes sense to me.:goodjob:


reps

[gerardojdm]

If he was trying to rob you, then who cares. And if the mexican that was beat to death was illegally here, then the sentence makes sense to me.:goodjob:

you really got ball behind your computer you fucking asshole.. :2up:

[gerardojdm]

reps

you make the perfect punching bag for me and all mexican you waste of sperm

[Jiggity96]

race is not the issue at all it was only made the issue by the media how many other cases of black people shooting black people white people shooting white people or mexicans shooting mexicans do you think there were is southern california alone last month? i dont have the numbers but im sure at least one for each scenario 6 bullets is excessive but as it has been for the last i dunno million years the phrase "survival of the fittest" comes into play and the robbers along with the clerk had all intentions of shoot to kill and there can be only one victor and as for the familys comments good people do bad things and nobodies mother is going to say "yeah my son was a thug ass piece shit who i completely failed at raising" shortly after his death on national tv

[The Creeper]

you really got ball behind your computer you fucking asshole.. :2up:

I would say this to anyone, to their face. Why should illegals be treated to our constitution and Laws that we pay taxes to uphold? Do I think beating some random illegal to death is wrong, morally yes, should that case be treated like any other, no.

I still stand behind the pharmacist too, regardless if the guy was a threat at the time he unloaded the clip into him.

[The Creeper]

reps

I am glad someone out there respects the fact that we pay taxes and illegals don't. Of course, most of your posts I see I agree with, so reps back to you sir.:cheers:

[BanginJimmy]

I am glad someone out there respects the fact that we pay taxes and illegals don't. Of course, most of your posts I see I agree with, so reps back to you sir.:cheers:

Has nothing to do with illegals. If someone tries to rob, you and you get the upper hand, I agree with dispensing the maximum amount of pain and suffering, including death, that you would like.

[The Creeper]

Has nothing to do with illegals. If someone tries to rob, you and you get the upper hand, I agree with dispensing the maximum amount of pain and suffering, including death, that you would like.

Yea it is a good way of cleansing society.:goodjob:

[speedminded]

He was on the ground with a bullet in his head, do you think he posed an immediate threat?

Better yet put a cop in the mans position, would that cop still have his job today? No, he'd be behind bars.Everyone knows (or should be aware) that people with little self-defense or weapon training commonly UNLOAD their weapon on their assailant, that's a fact as old as revolvers and semi-autos themselves. Look at the women that stab a man that has beat them 30 or 60 times...it's not about getting the job done, they simply lose control. An officer would normally have a situation like this under control, they are trained to not allow their emotions get between them and their duty.

On the other hand though, I think the pharmacist knew the most painful and least lethal place to be shot is where the suspect took the 5 hits. THERE ARE NO VITAL ORGANS THERE. It's 100% severe agony and highly unlikely to be an instant death. It would take hours to die from taking bullets in the stomach or intestines...a very slow painful death. If the suspect was seen as a threat after taking the head shot (none of you know how severe) then he did EXACTLY the right thing by shooting him in the least lethal place. See paragraph 1 again. :2cents:

[Gutling]

Talking about how officers are supposed to keep control, and how normal people can loose it. Remember a few weeks ago the video posted of all them officers beating the unconscious man when he was tossed from his vehicle. He was face down, unmoving, yet a group of police officers, trained to control and restrain themselves, jumped on him beating and kicking.

[speedminded]

Talking about how officers are supposed to keep control, and how normal people can loose it. Remember a few weeks ago the video posted of all them officers beating the unconscious man when he was tossed from his vehicle. He was face down, unmoving, yet a group of police officers, trained to control and restrain themselves, jumped on him beating and kicking.After he attempted to run an officer over maliciously hitting him with his vehicle. White or black, man or women, old or young I feel zero remorse for him other than I'm sorry he wasn't conscious to experience it. From a professional and ethical stand-point no it was not right.

[Gutling]

I was using it as en example of how people loose it in situations like that. Those were trained professionals and lost it, how do people expect that pharmacist to have kept control after being threatened with his life.

(ps i was completely for the beating, and completely for that pharmacist to empty his gun in the guy.)

[speedminded]

I was using it as en example of how people loose it in situations like that. Those were trained professionals and lost it, how do people expect that pharmacist to have kept control after being threatened with his life.

(ps i was completely for the beating, and completely for that pharmacist to empty his gun in the guy.)I don't think they lost it per say, there was full intent to do what they did before the cars even got shoved into park. They all witnessed an attempt to kill an officer, as soon as that was seen I guarantee every single one of them said either to themselves or out loud that they were going to beat his ass for that...and they did.

[Total_Blender]

I would say this to anyone, to their face. Why should illegals be treated to our constitution and Laws that we pay taxes to uphold? Do I think beating some random illegal to death is wrong, morally yes, should that case be treated like any other, no.

Paying taxes has nothing to do with protection of the law, the law applies to everyone. Think about all the seniors living on social security/VA, kids too young to work, full-time students, etc etc. The law protects them the same as it does CEO's etc. Murder is murder under the law, no matter who the victim is.

[One_Bad_SHO]

K so whats the update on the old man?

[Z0_o6]

you make the perfect punching bag for me and all mexican you waste of sperm


are you kidding me? this is blatant racial bashing.

[SL65AMG]

the first shot is self defense. I disagree with him coming back and shooting him 5 more times, 2 would have been ok, but i also disagree with the murder charge. fuck the mom, fuck the NAACP for making this a racial issue and fuck sharpton/jackson whenever they stick their fat noses into this mess.

[Z0_o6]

the first shot is self defense. I disagree with him coming back and shooting him 5 more times, 2 would have been ok, but i also disagree with the murder charge. fuck the mom, fuck the NAACP for making this a racial issue and fuck sharpton/jackson whenever they stick their fat noses into this mess.

not being sarcastic here at all, honestly curious as to why 2 shots is ok but 5 isn't.

[van]

I would like too see exactly how the attempted robbery happened. But without that the 5 extra shots seems excessive. However it was a "crime" of passion and murder 1 will never stick.

[ueyedgr8tness]

excessive force i would think because for him to go back in and then shoot shoot him again after he was still laying there when the clerk ran out after the other guy.I think the 1st shot done the trick just because if it didn't the robber would of got up and left wow the clerk ran out.But the motive changes from self defense to murder when he comes back and the kids is still laying there he fires more shots.


1) selfdefense= upon entry and feeling threaten shootin him
2) murder= coming back seeing the kid is not dead and shootin him more even thoe he can not be harmed by the kid..

[Z0_o6]

excessive force i would think because for him to go back in and then shoot shoot him again after he was still laying there when the clerk ran out after the other guy.I think the 1st shot done the trick just because if it didn't the robber would of got up and left wow the clerk ran out.But the motive changes from self defense to murder when he comes back and the kids is still laying there he fires more shots.


1) selfdefense= upon entry and feeling threaten shootin him
2) murder= coming back seeing the kid is not dead and shootin him more even thoe he can not be harmed by the kid..

You know, here's what I can't understand though. This guy didn't exactly ask to be robbed. In my opinion I would be pretty pissed if someone shot at me, therefore I would shoot to kill, regardless of the stupid technicalities that people have imposed. I don't see how ANYONE can think it is ok to charge him for getting robbed?! When that kid decided to shoot at the clerk, he absolved the clerk of all responsibility in my eyes. If the clerk had come back and poured salt in the kid's wound I would be perfectly fine with it, HE ASKED FOR IT. Can anyone give me an example to show me the flip side of this?? I want to understand the logic where the victim should be charged in a situation where the aggressor was killed in self defense.

[Corolla_TC]

from a personal standpoint, i would say self defense. a prosecutor could argue though that when he saw them disabled, and then went to get another gun, that was pre meditation. we argued cases like this in my justice and ethics class at GSU. its really going to boil down to who brings the better case but IMO if someone threatens my life it is self defense no matter what. i don't care if he was disabled or not, he threatened my life so he is goin down

[BanginJimmy]

from a personal standpoint, i would say self defense. a prosecutor could argue though that when he saw them disabled, and then went to get another gun, that was pre meditation. we argued cases like this in my justice and ethics class at GSU. its really going to boil down to who brings the better case but IMO if someone threatens my life it is self defense no matter what. i don't care if he was disabled or not, he threatened my life so he is goin down


Prosecuter will not be able to prove the kid wasnt conscious when the guy went back to get the other gun. He could just as easily say the robber was moving towards his gun and therefore still felt threatened and shot him. The video doesnt show anything so the defense will then have a perfect reasonable doubt case.

[Glides]

Dude did the crime....dudes doing the time.

The whole problem with leaving him alive is that the asshole can sue the guy who shot him. It's happened all over the place before this case. The guy who broke into the bike shop, fell through the roof and landed on a bike rach impaling himself, sued the owner and won because the bike rack was dangerous. Or the guy that broke into a house, cut himself with a knife and sued....won. Guy shoots a robber in the leg, robber gets arrested and sues....wins.

I say, kill the stupid asshole. He deserved everything he got. The mother deserves a slap in her self righteous face for even attempting to defend his actions.

[preferredduck]

bunch of ignorant ass idiots. Some of the things i read sound more like racism. I had a fucking mexican rob me and im a damn mexican myself. Sometimes i wish i could stick my hand in my monitor so i could pop up yours and slap some sense into people like yall.

Explain how 5 white men beat 1 mexican to death and only get 6 month in jail.

In this case, if Caucasian tryed to rob me, ill knock him out unconscious then ill grab my shot gun and blow his head right off. Or Ill pull out a knife and cut his head off. How does that sound?


hmm what about the guy in texas whgo accomodated illegals crossing his property by putting restrooms and running water out for them and he gets sued. you need to slap yourself. well another thing is i would like to hunt down and shoot every illegal for hit and runs in their cars. or when they smash you, you follow and are threatened so you can get your car fixed. i can go on for days about that subject.

i stand by my word, if you pull a gun on me and try to rob me/ etc, i will kill you. btw what white person would want to rob a mexican, seriously nobody wants autozone parts for their cars. :2cents:

[Z0_o6]

hmm what about the guy in texas whgo accomodated illegals crossing his property by putting restrooms and running water out for them and he gets sued. you need to slap yourself. well another thing is i would like to hunt down and shoot every illegal for hit and runs in their cars. or when they smash you, you follow and are threatened so you can get your car fixed. i can go on for days about that subject.

i stand by my word, if you pull a gun on me and try to rob me/ etc, i will kill you. btw what white person would want to rob a mexican, seriously nobody wants autozone parts for their cars. :2cents:


hahahahahahahahahaha +reps!

ignore that gerardo kid, he's all pissy for some reason cause he's mexican and feels wronged. not sure why, considering it wasn't brought up until he opened his big trap. Typical ignorance.

[khaxnguyen]

The whole problem with leaving him alive is that the asshole can sue the guy who shot him. It's happened all over the place before this case. The guy who broke into the bike shop, fell through the roof and landed on a bike rach impaling himself, sued the owner and won because the bike rack was dangerous. Or the guy that broke into a house, cut himself with a knife and sued....won. Guy shoots a robber in the leg, robber gets arrested and sues....wins.


or the problem is the money-based lawyers that will strip you just so they can have a part of it knowing what they're defending is absolutely wrong.
i suppose, all in all, if the robbers werent there, nothing would've happened. dying after five shots or dead with the first shot--he still shouldnt have been there doing any other than purchasing.

[Justin51982]

Self Defense. If you rob someone, and get shot, it's part of the risk. As for the 5 additional shots, I don't know. We weren't there, but if the guy was still moving I would have shot him 5 more times, hell I might have unloaded the whole clip. I'll tell you this much, break into my home, and you'll meet my 12 ga. loaded with slugs. I will only need one shot.

[khaxnguyen]

a cop told me, if you were to kill someone that robs you in your home, the Georgia will prosecute you when you are the victim... isnt that wonderful?

[Justin51982]

a cop told me, if you were to kill someone that robs you in your home, the Georgia will prosecute you when you are the victim... isnt that wonderful?

That's why you plant the knife on him before the cops get there.