Lets get some opinions

[Bajjani]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/index.html

The whole thing about restoring Shiavo's feeding tube. I say one, the husband is a douche and stands to gain something out of her death and two, the gov't shud really stay out of it. But I also think that the tube shud be reinserted..

[accented]

huge discussion goin on in another forum foo! :p

[Jaimecbr900]

Here you go. Join in:

http://forums.importatlanta.com/showthread.php?t=2140

[Bajjani]

TY! ADMINS CAN DELETE THIS THREAD IF YOU WANT!!

(caps intended)

[LaurenK]

I think that taking a feeding tube out of someone...reguardless is "murder". How could you do that to someone...torture them like that? Terrible. They need to put it back in...it's not like she is being kept alive on a ventilator.

[BolognaSandwich]

they should let her die.

[Brett]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/index.html

The whole thing about restoring Shiavo's feeding tube. I say one, the husband is a douche and stands to gain something out of her death and two, the gov't shud really stay out of it. But I also think that the tube shud be reinserted..

Please read up before making judgement calls like that, The husband waited 8 years before making the request to have her tube pulled. The "Money" yoo say he is after, is going to pay for the bills over the past 15 years of her medical care. The man has moved on, I dont think that is wrong only because she is not getting any better and 15 years has gone by and she will not get any better. She told him she never wanted to live like this, and what kind of life is she living? For 15 years she has been incoherient (sp?). Her brain cant function and she cant respond to people talking or anything, she is pretty much brain dead in the way she doesnt process thought and cant give it back. Facial looks she makes they have proved is involentary ( Like a baby ). Her parents are the ones being selfish, They want to keep her alive for what reason? What life is she living? When they die who will care for her? NO ONE but the state, so then the state will have to care for her and that means the tax payers will support her, when she has no life in her anymore.

The husband is not just throwing her away, he waited 8 YEARS BEFORE MAKING THE CHOICE TO LET HER DIE, her parents have been fighting it ever since, I say let her die with dignity and let her life end, she is not in a place in life that is a happy one in the least.

[JagerGirl]

She's been in veggie state for 15 years and she said herself she did not want to live on a feeding tube. I think she should go in peace and now seems like a better time than ever.

[Brett]

The last place the family turned to was trying to get the state to take custody of her ( So the lucky tax payers could support her ) but the judge refused to hear the case, That was the last shot they had. They have exhausted EVERY option they had, Now she will pass with dignity. Only thing I dont agree with is how they are doing it, They should give her a lethal injection, instead of her body dying slowley over a week or 2 of starvation, thats cruel. Prisinors on death row get more humane death then what she will get.

[JagerGirl]

I agree, lethal injection would be the best option and more humane, however, they could also go in and stop her heart entirely and that would be good too.

[Brett]

Just amazes me how people try and pass judgement on this when people dont know all the facts, Like bashing her husband saying he just wants her dead for her money, etc.... PEOPLE NEED TO READ FACT before posting BS like that.

[Ms Dollar]

i'm just curious what exactly is the whole story...how did she get into the state she is in now? is it purely medical?? i don't watch the news sorry...

[Ms Dollar]

just saw the little timeline on cnn...i think that her feeding tube should be removed i mean the husband probably knows more about her condition than her parents as of now and he knows what his wife wants and the parents need to stop being little selfish bitches...

[HiPSI]

i'm just curious what exactly is the whole story...how did she get into the state she is in now? is it purely medical?? i don't watch the news sorry...


purely medical, yes. she has been "dead" for 15 years. she still breathes and moves, but there basically are no thoughts going on in her brain. there's no point really in keeping her alive at this point. if it were me in that instance, i sure as hell wouldn't want to be kept alive physically because if there is no thought, there is really no person... just an empty body.

[civic95]

I wish they'd just reinsert that shit, and let her lay there for another 20 yrs cause I'm tired of hearing about it.

[Bajjani]

Holy shit brett, when did i say money? Also, go do research on what begin in a vegitation state is, its almost a vague description, and actually, she isn't a complete vegetable. Also, the husband has been trying to kill her, for 8 years. Haven't you heard this is the THIRD time hes gotten it removed, so please, reread the facts. Also, who are we to judge the value of a life? I know someone who his child skull got crushed at birth and spinal fluid leaked out, he is now mostly brain dead. He is 18 and his parents still take care of him completely..do you think they'd ever want to give up their son? Would you give up your kids Brett? If so, thats pathetic. And I'd rather my tax money going to supporting someone like her than what most of it goes to anyway, but I suppose we all just want our tax money to help us not others, we're all selfish pricks I guess? If I could give a few paychecks to save a life I'd be the first to do it, even if she is a vegetable.

[Jaimecbr900]

Holy shit brett, when did i say money?

Well what did you mean by "the husband has something to gain", if not monetarily?



Also, go do research on what begin in a vegitation state is, its almost a vague description, and actually, she isn't a complete vegetable.

Actually, you may need to go to the link I gave you to the other discussion where this topic has already been discussed at length. We have a very very good source in Uncle El who is now a DR., if I'm not mistaken, and shared with us his extensive paper and research on what levels of "brain dead" really mean. You should go and read it before you decide if that is a position you'd like to be in yourself before you go saying she should be kept there.

So, I'll answer for Brett to tell you that he has in fact done the research and after reading that paper from Uncle El I personally feel confident he DOES in fact KNOW more about the subject than you do.


Also, the husband has been trying to kill her, for 8 years. Haven't you heard this is the THIRD time hes gotten it removed, so please, reread the facts.

Actually, the husband tried in vain to have his wife treated for many many years before deciding to fulfill her previous wishes. He had a falling out with the parents many years ago and have been at odds since. Had it not been for the parents being selfish, this lady would've passed years ago and not been subject to the subsequent years of just laying there lifelessly.



Also, who are we to judge the value of a life?


Compassionate human beings. If the parents like to see their daughter laying there another 15 yrs in a fetal position w/o any possibility of ever recovering, they are simply selfish. If the lady had any signs of self thought or expression or could even remotely communicate, things would be entirely different. As it stands, she's been a vegetable for 15yrs now. How much more does she have to suffer just to give gratification to her parents? That's selfish.


I know someone who his child skull got crushed at birth and spinal fluid leaked out, he is now mostly brain dead. He is 18 and his parents still take care of him completely..do you think they'd ever want to give up their son?

Is that child speaking? Is that child able to communicate his thoughts? If so, this is totally different scenario.


Would you give up your kids Brett? If so, thats pathetic. And I'd rather my tax money going to supporting someone like her than what most of it goes to anyway, but I suppose we all just want our tax money to help us not others, we're all selfish pricks I guess? If I could give a few paychecks to save a life I'd be the first to do it, even if she is a vegetable.


Don't be so quick to make those remarks until you have children of your own. As a parent, you are supposed to look out for your children's best interest exclusively. No exceptions. That means that regardless of it's hard on you or not, you are to do what's right for your child. Parents make hard decisions all the time. None harder than this one. I love my kids more than life itself. For that reason, I know I could not stand there and watch my son or my daughter be a lifeless shell for 15yrs. You are supposed to love your children for whom they not what they are. The person they ARE is not determined by the body they are in. When that spirit leaves the body, there is nothing remaining but a shell. If you truly loved that person, you didn't love their shell you loved their spirit. If the spirit is gone, it's not the same person laying there.

That's like someone dying and you keeping their BODY in a cryogenic state. Is that the same PERSON you loved laying in there in the freezer? It's simply their body. For you to hold on to it in the hopes that someday the same person you once loved will magically rise from the dead is ridiculous. That can only happen one way and it has nothing to do with cryogenics. ;)

[Scrappy]

I am with Jamie and brett 100% on this... her husband is not killing her! rephrase that shit real fast... her own fucking wishes were to not live off a feeding tube... think if you said that and your parents kept you alive for the fact of life... quit looking at it for the husband as a killer, think of it as her own lifes wish! and with you saying about the childs skull getting crushed, he even able to leave a bed? cause i know some kids and adults that are able to be out in life and survive with help of others... she cant even do that... its not like we are saying "SHE DESERVES TO DIE" we are stating "SHE WANTS TO LIVE PEACEFUL AND DIE PEACEFUL!"

[A.P. Photography]

Well Jaime just saved me a lot of typing. Read the other thread as well as this one. There have been many things stated in both and I agree with Jaimer and Brett fully. The way she is dying might be a little harsh but actually ending the bodies function abruptly is not something the state will allow. Remember Dr. Kavorkian.

[JagerGirl]

Me too... And Tim, this just happens to be one subject I disagree on... If it wasn't for us compassionate human beings as Jaime said, she would have died years ago because we wouldn't have cared enough to insert the tube to begin with. I think she's ready to go, and I think her parents need to let go as well.

[Bajjani]

Krissy, rephrase that shit real fast... her own fucking wishes were to not live off a feeding tube..., rephare how you talk. And also, Jamie, different doctors have very different ideas on what the actual defention is and how you classify someone as being a vegetable. Like I was trying to say, its more a vague description, hence its hard to say, because there have been two doctors so far to say shes not completely brain dead. It was said the other day that she was trying to communicate, but it was by the parents, so who knows.

Jamie, no he can not talk or communicate. And I consider this murder, so in my eyes Krissy, this is murder, stop flaming about it, you have your own opinion. Just as he was accused of beating her, he is also the one fighting to end her life. Is that word'd better, because that is in fact what his is trying to do.

And actually, she is NOT brain dead. Once again I will state that she is NOT brain dead. The fact that she can breathe on her own proves this so. By definition of being brain dead, you lose ALL activity in the brain, basically, your heart just keeps beating. She can breathe, it is referred to as a MIMIC brain death. Once again, go do research.

For all you people who say there is no hope, thats kinda sad, as in depressing sad, not pathetic. With how far and how fast technology has come, who knows, maybe she will be the first to recieve a cure that could restore her brain damage, tho unlikely, is it to much to take that chance? Its just a feeding tube and if people aren't willing to spend an extra cent or even 10 bucks in taxes to save a life, what a great fuckin country we are.

[Bajjani]

Also, for those who don't come in here and immediate begin flaming others and talk civally, thank you. Those who start blowin up, go away.

[A.P. Photography]

Tim while your views are your own and may be justified in your eyes this is a matter that should be between the husband and wife. Not the parents, Bush, court system, the guy at the local 7-11. After 15 years in the state she has been in the possibility of her recovering is long gone, many doctors have agreed that she is brain dead. Now yes there may be many degrees of Bran dead but the fact remains that all concious motor and communication abilites are gone. More than likely her spirit has gone on and there is nothing left but a shell of what once was a daughter. The parents are being selfish for trying to hold onto her when clearly if they are the Christians they claim to be they know she is going to a better place.

Now I agree that if there was a chance that she could be saved and she showed signs that she is progressing I have no problem having some of my tax dollars go to help her. The problem is she has not made any progress and the only thing we are paying for is her to be in a hospice room with a feeding tube and a nurse to come by and check on her. That is not a life I would want anyone to live or be subjected to. Like Jaime said in the other post, ok so they put the feeding tube back in and it stays, she lives off the tube for another 15 years and her body starts failing. What then, hook her up to more machines to keep the body alive? When does it stop? Who are we to intervene in life and play god? You speak with a strong belief and that is good, it means that you are thinking and processing information and are able to make your own decesions, but for Schivo that ended 15 years ago. Are you prepared to say that you are god and this woman should not die? I am not condeming you for your beliefs or actions but merely asking you to tell everyone what right man has to play god, and that is exactly what we are doing in this case.

[Jaimecbr900]

Krissy, rephrase that shit real fast... her own fucking wishes were to not live off a feeding tube..., rephare how you talk.

We can all have an adult discussion w/o resorting to getting overly excited about it. Remember, regardless of what anyone says (me included) we are not the deciding factor for this. In other words, we can hoot and holler all we want but the decision in real life is not ours to make. We are merely debating our opinions on this. Let's keep everything in perspective.



And also, Jamie, different doctors have very different ideas on what the actual defention is and how you classify someone as being a vegetable. Like I was trying to say, its more a vague description, hence its hard to say, because there have been two doctors so far to say shes not completely brain dead. It was said the other day that she was trying to communicate, but it was by the parents, so who knows.

That may very well be so, but remember the law of diminishing returns. There's got to come a time when one thing out weighs another. The lady has been declared a vegetable. The common consensus is that she will NEVER be able to do anything. Why prolong the inevitable? Why play God with a machine? I said it in other thread and noone said anything about it, so I'll repeat: Maybe the people that want her to be kept alive should look at it from a different angle. Maybe it's not that God wants her alive, it's that he's been kept waiting for her for 15yrs. Is that not a possibility?


Jamie, no he can not talk or communicate. And I consider this murder, so in my eyes Krissy, this is murder, stop flaming about it, you have your own opinion. Just as he was accused of beating her, he is also the one fighting to end her life. Is that word'd better, because that is in fact what his is trying to do.

I don't know all the details surrounding your friend/example, but if it's like this one's then those parents are selfish too. I tried to explain that already. The "thing" that people attach themselves to and love is NOT the BODY, it's the spirit. If that is gone, the thing you "loved" is too. Some people can't understand that our bodies are merely vessels or shells. They think that if they have a hunk of meat breathing, it's enough of a definition of "alive". Wrong!

This is NOT about her parents OR her husband. It's about what would be best for her. The husband is being scapegoated for carrying out HER wishes.


And actually, she is NOT brain dead. Once again I will state that she is NOT brain dead. The fact that she can breathe on her own proves this so. By definition of being brain dead, you lose ALL activity in the brain, basically, your heart just keeps beating. She can breathe, it is referred to as a MIMIC brain death. Once again, go do research.

Go read the research paper Uncle El shared in the other thread and see if you still come to that same conclusion.


For all you people who say there is no hope, thats kinda sad, as in depressing sad, not pathetic. With how far and how fast technology has come, who knows, maybe she will be the first to recieve a cure that could restore her brain damage, tho unlikely, is it to much to take that chance? Its just a feeding tube and if people aren't willing to spend an extra cent or even 10 bucks in taxes to save a life, what a great fuckin country we are.

Now, I ask you: Where's your compassion? Even by your own admission you don't think it's likely she'll ever improve YET you want her to lay in a bed and wait on something that may NEVER arrive? How's that make sense?

Have you ever seen anyone that is bedridden? I have. It's not pretty. It's actually very painful and uncomfortable. She's not just laying there watching cartoons and sipping chocolate milk. She's in a fetal position with only her eyes open and wondering around. That's it. That's the most you can expect to receive from her condition. Yet, you feel that's "LIFE"?

I promise you that if you ever work with a bedridden patient for any length of time, you'll see it's no life at all. Some people that can barely talk will tell you they'd rather die and that's but after a few months of it. After 15 YRS???? Go volunteer in an extended care unit at a hospital and THEN tell me what you think. I've been there, it's the same reason I've got a living will too. I'll come back and haunt everyone of you that don't unplug me I promise..... ;)

[Brett]

Well what did you mean by "the husband has something to gain", if not monetarily?




Actually, you may need to go to the link I gave you to the other discussion where this topic has already been discussed at length. We have a very very good source in Uncle El who is now a DR., if I'm not mistaken, and shared with us his extensive paper and research on what levels of "brain dead" really mean. You should go and read it before you decide if that is a position you'd like to be in yourself before you go saying she should be kept there.

So, I'll answer for Brett to tell you that he has in fact done the research and after reading that paper from Uncle El I personally feel confident he DOES in fact KNOW more about the subject than you do.



Actually, the husband tried in vain to have his wife treated for many many years before deciding to fulfill her previous wishes. He had a falling out with the parents many years ago and have been at odds since. Had it not been for the parents being selfish, this lady would've passed years ago and not been subject to the subsequent years of just laying there lifelessly.





Compassionate human beings. If the parents like to see their daughter laying there another 15 yrs in a fetal position w/o any possibility of ever recovering, they are simply selfish. If the lady had any signs of self thought or expression or could even remotely communicate, things would be entirely different. As it stands, she's been a vegetable for 15yrs now. How much more does she have to suffer just to give gratification to her parents? That's selfish.



Is that child speaking? Is that child able to communicate his thoughts? If so, this is totally different scenario.




Don't be so quick to make those remarks until you have children of your own. As a parent, you are supposed to look out for your children's best interest exclusively. No exceptions. That means that regardless of it's hard on you or not, you are to do what's right for your child. Parents make hard decisions all the time. None harder than this one. I love my kids more than life itself. For that reason, I know I could not stand there and watch my son or my daughter be a lifeless shell for 15yrs. You are supposed to love your children for whom they not what they are. The person they ARE is not determined by the body they are in. When that spirit leaves the body, there is nothing remaining but a shell. If you truly loved that person, you didn't love their shell you loved their spirit. If the spirit is gone, it's not the same person laying there.

That's like someone dying and you keeping their BODY in a cryogenic state. Is that the same PERSON you loved laying in there in the freezer? It's simply their body. For you to hold on to it in the hopes that someday the same person you once loved will magically rise from the dead is ridiculous. That can only happen one way and it has nothing to do with cryogenics. ;)

Jamie summed up EXACTLY what I would have said..... Thanks Jamie.

[Jaimecbr900]

Jamie summed up EXACTLY what I would have said..... Thanks Jamie.

Anytime bud. :goodjob:

[Brett]

People are just so quick to jump into this shit without getting ALL the answers, Like Tim is now saying this guy used to beat her, WTF does that have to do with this and what proof does Tim have of this?

The man waited 8 years before making the request for her to be allowed to pass. This is HER RIGHT to do so. 15 years of her life has gone by and she has made NO IMPROVEMENT in the 15 years, so what is the reason to keep her in this position she is in? What value of life does she have left in her? Her parents are being selfish as fuck because they dont want to let her go peacefully, instead they want to drag it out keep her like this, but tell me this, when they pass away who is going to be there for her and take care of her Tim?

And ya know what, Bringing the kids into this is fucked up, because the kids are healthy and not in that position, but you know what, if one of them was like that, Id do the right thing and let them move on to a better place, Not have them hooked to a tube and have thier body alive but thier brain be pretty much in a non existant state just so I can sleep better for 15 years. If you love someone enough, you would know the life she has is nothing ANYONE would want to live, so the right thing to do was to let her go ALONG time ago.

[JagerGirl]

^^^exactly!

[A.P. Photography]

Well seeing as how Jaime and I agree on everything so far and he has this under control, I am going back to sleep now.


Thanks Jaime :goodjob:

[Brett]

I just dont see what anyone can say this woman will get if she was kept alive for 20 more years? What happiness or anything can she get, her brain doesnt function, she has no emotions, feelings or anything, she is a shell of what she once was.

[Jaimecbr900]

Well seeing as how Jaime and I agree on everything so far and he has this under control, I am going back to sleep now.


Thanks Jaime :goodjob:

;)