Michael Vick in Talks to Become PETA Spokesman

[Tracy]

Wow.

http://adage.com/article?article_id=136403


NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- Michael Vick is in talks to become the new spokesman for PETA.

Yes, you read that correctly. The disgraced one-time NFL superstar serving prison time for funding an illegal dog-fighting ring is primed to do public-service ads for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals upon his release later this month. According to three people with knowledge of the matter, the proposed endorsement is part of a comprehensive PR scheme aimed at rehabilitating the quarterback's image and gaining him readmission to the league that banned him from playing.

"I'm familiar with [the plan]," said Dan Shannon, director of youth outreach and campaigns for PETA. "We have been in discussions with Michael Vick, with his management team, about the possibility of him putting out a public-service announcement with PETA when he's out of jail. We want him to discourage people from taking part in dog-fighting. I can do it until I'm blue in the face and it might not convince anybody. Michael Vick sure can. He can say, 'Look, I did it, I was wrong, and it ruined my career.'"

Other image-changing moves
That's not all Mr. Vick will do to try to rehabilitate his image. People with knowledge of his comeback plan said it will also include mea culpa TV interviews, PSAs and charitable donations to other animal-rights organizations (or perhaps the formation of his own foundation), along with the possibility of working with PETA.

But this might be the mother of all PR jobs. Mr. Vick's obstacles are many: a hard-line NFL commissioner who wants to see "genuine remorse" before reinstating Mr. Vick to the league; individual franchises that might be wary of the backlash and potential damage to their brands from signing Mr. Vick; and an incredulous public that remains shocked by the story.

And what a grisly tale it is. Mr. Vick, who in 2004 signed a seven-year, $130 million contract with the Atlanta Falcons, funded the Bad Newz Kennels in Virginia, which participated in the fighting of pit bulls and also admitted to participating in the sometimes torturous deaths of dogs that underperformed, including death by drowning, hanging and electrocution. Mr. Vick is due to be released from federal prison on May 20 and will serve the remaining two months of his 23-month sentence under home confinement near Hampton, Va., where he will be working a 40-hour-a-week construction job.

Mr. Vick's camp includes a multitude of PR and legal handlers. His Atlanta-based attorney, Daniel Meachum, did not return several requests for an interview. Mr. Vick's Washington-based lawyer, William "Billy" Martin, declined to comment. It is not known if Mr. Vick's team has hired a strategic-communications or crisis-management firm to handle the PR efforts. But PETA confirmed it has talked with his handlers.

Before doing a deal, however, PETA wants Mr. Vick to undergo a psychological evaluation for antisocial personality disorder. "We're suspicious this may come from a place of simply wanting to repair his public image, rather than genuine remorse," Mr. Shannon said. "He was dishonest all the way up the line until he finally had to admit to what he did, which is a hallmark of [antisocial personality disorder]. If he can't tell the difference between right and wrong, we can't get in bed with this guy. At this point, he hasn't chosen to submit to an evaluation. We hope the NFL will require that evaluation as a precondition of reinstatement. The bottom line is: Everybody knows he's going to apologize, go on Oprah and Larry King and say he did wrong, that he learned his lesson. But there's no reason for anybody to take his word for that based on the pattern of dishonesty and the severity of cruelty he took part in."

PETA's PR issues
Though PETA certainly has its own PR issues because of its extremist positions -- the group is known for shocking advertising and stunts; it has been known to throw animal blood on people who wear fur and once sent a letter to the small town of Fishkill, N.Y., asking the community to change its name -- the organization nonetheless could give Mr. Vick's efforts a sense of legitimacy, experts said.

"It's a smart thing. He should be doing some work with PETA or other animal-rights organizations," said Richard Levick, president of the Washington public-relations consultancy Levick Strategic Communications. "What the American public looks for is recognition of error, contrition and fixing the problem. There was plenty of opportunity for Michael Vick early on to have admitted his errors without admitting his legal liability, to reach out to his sponsors, animal-rights communities, the football communities, but he didn't. So now he has to. Americans are willing to forgive egregious acts but not arrogance."

Despite the sometimes skeptical public reaction to such PR tours, those who shape public image said it has to be done. "Even if it is 'staged,' rehabilitation has to start somewhere, as long as it's sincere and consistent," said Drew Kerr, president and lead public-relations counsel for Four Corners Communications, a PR firm based in New York. "The public has a long history of forgiving people and creating comeback stories under the right circumstances."

Both Messrs. Levick and Kerr cited examples such as Texas Rangers outfielder Josh Hamilton, who overcame a four-year drug addiction to finally reach the major leagues and make the All-Star team last year, and Michael Milken, the one-time "junk bond king" who was charged with 98 counts of racketeering and securities fraud in 1989. He pleaded guilty to six securities charges and served less than two years in prison but today is a well-known and well-respected philanthropist whom Fortune magazine dubbed "The Man Who Changed Medicine" in 2004.

"There's a strange identification process that goes on, so if the sincerity is there, even if it's under the master hand of a PR pro, it can go a long way," Mr. Kerr said.

Up to the commissioner
Whether Mr. Vick can convince NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is another story. The league has taken no position on Mr. Vick's status since he was suspended indefinitely in 2007. The Associated Press reported last month that at a panel discussion at Washington & Lee University, Mr. Goodell said he will meet with Mr. Vick after his legal issues have been addressed.

"At that point in time, I will want to meet with Michael, I will want to meet with his people, I will want to meet with other professionals to understand: Does he understand the mistakes he made and is he genuine and have remorse for those actions, and is he prepared to handle himself differently going forward? That will ultimately be my decision," Mr. Goodell told the AP. "Our issue is trying to do the right thing and represent the NFL in the best possible way. Michael did an egregious thing. He has paid a very significant price for that."

But he also indicated he would be open to the idea of letting Mr. Vick return. "If [Mr. Vick has] learned from that and is prepared to live a different life, I think the general public is forgiving on that when people are genuine and they show remorse and are prepared to live a different life. ... That's something he has to prove to myself and the general public."

If Mr. Vick is suspended for the 2009 season, his options include the Canadian Football League and the upstart United Football League. But even if Mr. Goodell reinstates Mr. Vick for the 2009 NFL season -- and at age 29 he does have several productive years left if he stayed in shape while in prison -- it remains to be seen which team would take a chance on the quarterback. "There is a risk, yes, but professional sports has shown over and over that they are willing to take that chance even on the biggest risks, and they don't seem to wait long, either," Mr. Kerr said.

Mr. Levick agreed, saying, "The Falcons said they weren't taking him back, but he only has to change the perception of one of 29 other [franchise owners]. Sports are filled with people who have been given second and third chances."

Even PETA seems willing to give him another shot. "PETA does believe in second chances," Mr. Shannon said. "Just because somebody did something bad, it doesn't mean they're an unsalvageable person. We hope that's the case with Michael Vick."

[Atlblkz06]

A player is an ASSET, not a person. If NFL rejects a player, its only to maintain their image - not some lame excuse like morality.

This cant surprise anyone - its all about money, and image = money.

Vick is along for the ride - good luck to him. (bitch ass)

[Brian*]

Damn...

[Tracy]

I don't care about all of that. I just think it's crazy about the PETA thing. I don't think it's a good idea.

[SandM]

I don't think PETA is a good idea

[Brian*]

^^ Probably not!

[frankXVX]

I don't care about all of that. I just think it's crazy about the PETA thing. I don't think it's a good idea.

x2 plus it would look stupid if peta lets him :screwy: i already question peta,if they let him then ill know they are dumb they named andre 3000 as one of the best looking vegans or something like that but yet he whears fur so i dont know:thinking:

[BanginJimmy]

This is all about PR for Vick. He doesnt believe in anything that PETA does. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see though anything Vick is trying to do and know it is all BS.

[Tracy]

This is all about PR for Vick. He doesnt believe in anything that PETA does. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see though anything Vick is trying to do and know it is all BS.That's my view and why I don't think it's a good idea.

[VIP Style]

this is why vick will have a hard time trying to prove that he is sincerely sorry about what he has done. people just ready to knock him down every chance they get when he is trying to do right.
That's my view and why I don't think it's a good idea.

[BanginJimmy]

this is why vick will have a hard time trying to prove that he is sincerely sorry about what he has done. people just ready to knock him down every chance they get when he is trying to do right.


That is because the only thing Vick is sorry about is getting caught. That is obvious in the lies he told to the media and Goddell right before he plead out.

I dont know why you are so driven to defend this piece of shit. He didnt make a mistake and it wasnt an accident. It was a deliberate act.

[Tracy]

That is because the only thing Vick is sorry about is getting caught. That is obvious in the lies he told to the media and Goddell right before he plead out.

I dont know why you are so driven to defend this piece of shit. He didnt make a mistake and it wasnt an accident. It was a deliberate act.

Ditto. I will never forgive him. He's not sorry.

[seriousb13]

this is why vick will have a hard time trying to prove that he is sincerely sorry about what he has done. people just ready to knock him down every chance they get when he is trying to do right.

x2. Maybe he is sorry for what he did. Maybe not, but at the end he will still play ball.

[Tracy]

He's not sorry. That's that.

Being sorry is a different discussion from whether or not he will play ball.

[BobbyFresco]

Lulz...

[sshonda2004]

lol and how do you know he is not sorry? exactly, none of us truly know whats going on inside anyones head. i dont know why so many are hell bent on never seeing him get himself right, thats what its all about. its rediculous to try and keep someone held down because of a crime that nobody really gives a shit about until now. hell naw it wasnt right what he did, but you cant condemn him forever unless you just hatin or something.
He's not sorry. That's that.

Being sorry is a different discussion from whether or not he will play ball.

[IMPORTchic]

Ditto. I will never forgive him. He's not sorry.

I agree. He did what he did b/c that is who he is. If it was a mistake that was a one time thing and was a whoops factor, then maybe, but it wasn't!!!! He planned all this out and it went on for an extended period of time until he got busted!!

I think its rediculous that PETA is allowing him to do that. I think its all about money!!!:screwy: I personally think PETA is a joke anyways. I do not agree with a lot that they do. So really....doesnt suprise me that they would allow this.

Of course he is going to come out and be like "ohhh I am desperately sorrry for what I done, I love animals, :blah: " b/c he wants his public image back to hopefully get back in the game! If anything, he feels sorry for his own self for screwing up his ball career. :gay:

I hate the jackass. Him along with anyone else sick enough to fight animals like that. ORRRR to make an Am Staff a "pit" dog. :2up:


~AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER owner

[BanginJimmy]

lol and how do you know he is not sorry? exactly, none of us truly know whats going on inside anyones head. i dont know why so many are hell bent on never seeing him get himself right, thats what its all about. its rediculous to try and keep someone held down because of a crime that nobody really gives a shit about until now. hell naw it wasnt right what he did, but you cant condemn him forever unless you just hatin or something.

Its actually pretty simple,. if he was sorry about it he would have manned up after he got caught and just plead out. He wouldnt have lied to the press and more importantly Goddell immediately before pleading out. And finally, he wouldnt be doing shit with PETA if he was sorry about it.

I dont know what is with all of the Vick apologists. The so called man is a piece of shit and he has proven himself to be a piece of shit on MANY occasions. Flipping off the fans in the Dome after he blew a game immediately comes to mind. I dont care that you call me a hater, its true, I do hate the self important punk.

[IMPORTchic]

Its actually pretty simple,. if he was sorry about it he would have manned up after he got caught and just plead out. He wouldnt have lied to the press and more importantly Goddell immediately before pleading out. And finally, he wouldnt be doing shit with PETA if he was sorry about it.

I dont know what is with all of the Vick apologists. The so called man is a piece of shit and he has proven himself to be a piece of shit on MANY occasions. Flipping off the fans in the Dome after he blew a game immediately comes to mind. I dont care that you call me a hater, its true, I do hate the self important punk.

:goodjob: +reps.

[Tracy]

Oh yea. I'm hatin'. I'm hatin' on a heartless POS. Anyone who could do that is a POS and that's my opinion and I am absolutely entitled to it. You think he's sorry? Awesome. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I don't really feel like getting into what I really want to write right now because I have homework to do, but trust...I will be back to get it all out. Until then, I'm a hater :)

[IMPORTchic]

*sits back and waits!!!* lol

[TIGERJC]

I don't care if he isn't sorry, but he did pay for his crimes. So he should be allowed to move on with his life and career without having to do anything else special

[_Christian_]

I hope he does all this shit and then gets denied.

[BanginJimmy]

I don't care if he isn't sorry, but he did pay for his crimes. So he should be allowed to move on with his life and career without having to do anything else special


His life, yes, I am all for that. His career is up to 1 person, Roger Goddell. If Goddell thinks that having Vick in an NFL uniform is bad for the game then he will ban him permanently.

[EJ25RUN]

He thinks its a good moral decision to join an organization that burns down Hummer dealers because apparently Hummers kill the whales?

[BobbyFresco]

I wish people would allow this man to get on with his life.
Danny Heatly(sp) was able to and he killed a human being.
Give me a break.

[IMPORTchic]

I wish people would allow this man to get on with his life.
Danny Heatly(sp) was able to and he killed a human being.
Give me a break.

He should be able to get on with his life in the sense of working a real job and paying his debts etc. I just dont think its right for him to work with PETA and act like a good person. Its like someone going to church on sunday and then going out and running wild during the week. Hypocrite in my eyes! I think it should just all be dropped and him prove to his own self that he is not that kind of person to continue to be involved in such activities. I give him mad props if he has changed and never gets involved in such again!:goodjob:

[Tracy]

I'm not blocking him from getting on with his life. I am just commenting on what he has done to helpless animals. I'd do the same if I found out someone on IA was involved in the same activities. Get used to it. Everyone has an opinion and is allowed to express it.

I also think Jeffrey Dahmer is a POS for what he did to those men, but this thread isn't about who killed people. It's about Mike Vick becoming a rep for PETA and I don't agree with it nor do I believe he is sorry. Don't like my opinion, post your own or click the x. :)

[EJ25RUN]

I wish people would allow this man to get on with his life.
Danny Heatly(sp) was able to and he killed a human being.
Give me a break.

No one would be on his case if he didn't kill animals for his sick enjoyment. As far as i'm concerned, he deserves worse.

Just cause a guy is good at football, doesn't mean he is above the law and above animal rights.

[Tracy]

My sentiments exactly.

You think this is cute?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r269/dearaewi/dogfighting2.jpg

How about this?

http://brotherpeacemaker.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/michael-vick.jpg

or this?

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/RandPC/mvic.jpg

There is no way you could stand there and watch this happen to an animal and then claim to be sorry after a few months in jail.

[BanginJimmy]

There is no way you could stand there and watch this happen to an animal and then claim to be sorry after a few months in jail.

There is no way you can watch that done to an animal and call yourself anything but a sociopath, or worse.

Then to add to it, he had a couple of friends over for a night of torturing dogs if they didnt perform as well as he thought they should. That is the true mark of someone incapable of feeling sorry. I wont lose a minute of sleep if I hear of Vick having the same things done to him as he did to those dogs.

And yes, I put a dogs life over Vick's. The dogs have shown more humanity than he has. Vick has earned the right to be a third class citizen of this world. Right there with the German Gestapo and Waffen SS.

[Tracy]

Psychologist will tell you that anyone who tortures animals is a sociopath (or whatever) and on his way to harming humans. It's like a stepping stone. Do some research on serial killers and most of them started by torturing animals for practice.

[EJ25RUN]

There is no way you can watch that done to an animal and call yourself anything but a sociopath, or worse.

Then to add to it, he had a couple of friends over for a night of torturing dogs if they didnt perform as well as he thought they should. That is the true mark of someone incapable of feeling sorry. I wont lose a minute of sleep if I hear of Vick having the same things done to him as he did to those dogs.

And yes, I put a dogs life over Vick's. The dogs have shown more humanity than he has. Vick has earned the right to be a third class citizen of this world. Right there with the German Gestapo and Waffen SS.
QFT.

Reps to you for having common sense and civility.

[sshonda2004]

tell me about it, jeez. he did his time, lost alot, so let him get back to business instead of trying to hold him down forever.
I wish people would allow this man to get on with his life.
Danny Heatly(sp) was able to and he killed a human being.
Give me a break.

[sshonda2004]

hmm how much common sense and civility does that truly show putting a dogs life over a humans, gtfo lol your kidding right?
QFT.

Reps to you for having common sense and civility.

[BobbyFresco]

hmm how much common sense and civility does that truly show putting a dogs life over a humans, gtfo lol your kidding right?


Believe me when I say, you're beating a dead horse....* Oh noes, please don't charge me*:rolleyes:
Financing and having a place where the fighting occured is the same as torturing and willfully killing AN ANIMAL I guess....Lulz...common sense...

and Tracy, I never said you were not allowed to have an opinion or express said opinion....but by the same token, I am allowed to express my varying opinion on something that I deem to be utterly retarded...

[EJ25RUN]

hmm how much common sense and civility does that truly show putting a dogs life over a humans, gtfo lol your kidding right?
No I'm not kidding in the least bit.

It's a proven fact that a person who enjoys seeing animals suffer is clinically disturbed and is likely to do the same to other people.

Again, fanboys can say all they want but at the end of the day, he committed a crime and tortured animals. By my definition, yes, if i had the choice, I'd take a dog's life over his.

Why do you post everything in black?

What point are you trying to make with that?

[BobbyFresco]

You bleeding heart animal lovers should be protesting the killings of innocent and defenseless cows and chickens...but wait...you won't...
Why's that? One word: hypocrisy.

Why aren't you out at pounds and kennels that can't hold but a certain amount of dogs and cats that don't have homes and have not been adopted so consequently are put to sleep, protesting those atrocities?
One word: hypocrisy....

[BobbyFresco]

No I'm not kidding in the least bit.

It's a proven fact that a person who enjoys seeing animals suffer is clinically disturbed and is likely to do the same to other people.

Again, fanboys can say all they want but at the end of the day, he committed a crime and tortured animals. By my definition, yes, if i had the choice, I'd take a dog's life over his.

Why do you post everything in black?

What point are you trying to make with that?


A. You don't have to be a Vick fanboy to see that he has paid his dues and should be allowed to live his life without further loss of wages and fear of persecution by people who have nothing better to do than to bitch about freaking animals....

B. He may be posting in all black because he wants to? Maybe that's his thing?
Why's it a big deal to you?

[EJ25RUN]

A. You don't have to be a Vick fanboy to see that he has paid his dues and should be allowed to love his life without further loss of wages and fear of persecution by people who have nothing better to bitch about than freaking animals....

B. He may be posting in all black because he wants to? Maybe that's his thing?
Why's it a big deal to you?

A. No comment because i disagree with all of it.

B. How about you let him explain it for himself....because if "he wants to," how would you know?

[BobbyFresco]

A. No comment because i disagree with all of it.

B. How about you let him explain it for himself....because if "he wants to," how would you know?

A. :rolleyes:
B. Just sayin'. He doesn't really need a reason.

[EJ25RUN]

A. :rolleyes:
B. Just sayin'. He doesn't really need a reason.

It's a given that we disagree on this matter.

But, you don't see me speaking for others if i don't have a clue what they are talking about. If the opportunity ever pops up, don't answer for me. Just PM me and let me say what i want to say.

[Tracy]

Believe me when I say, you're beating a dead horse....* Oh noes, please don't charge me*:rolleyes:
Financing and having a place where the fighting occured is the same as torturing and willfully killing AN ANIMAL I guess....Lulz...common sense...

and Tracy, I never said you were not allowed to have an opinion or express said opinion....but by the same token, I am allowed to express my varying opinion on something that I deem to be utterly retarded...Did I quote you or something? Pretty sure I didn't. I'm also pretty sure I said everyone was entitled to their opinion and to post it if they had one :) Just like you, I am allowed to be upset over YOUR opinion, right?



Also, if you are eating the animal, it's a different story. Did Vick eat any of those dogs after he tortured them? Are you guys saying what he did was ok because I eat chicken and beef? Seriously?

[Tracy]

You bleeding heart animal lovers should be protesting the killings of innocent and defenseless cows and chickens...but wait...you won't...
Why's that? One word: hypocrisy.

Why aren't you out at pounds and kennels that can't hold but a certain amount of dogs and cats that don't have homes and have not been adopted so consequently are put to sleep, protesting those atrocities?
One word: hypocrisy....Hypocrisy would mean that I actually torture animals then argue that Vick shouldn't. Your example is not and example of hypocrisy.

I actually volunteer at animal shelters. I don't agree that they put them to sleep. You are trying to add all of these points in here based on nothing. This thread isn't about all of the things we think are wrong when it comes to animals. To stay on topic, I am not arguing each and every animal treatment issue. I made this thread to discuss Vick and PETA. You want to discuss animal shelters? Make another thread :)

[IMPORTchic]

I have to go with Tracy on this one about them being ate. If the animals are killed for human consumption then that is one thing....dogs are domesticated PETS...not food. HE was using them for pleasure and entertainment. CRUEL. The dogs did nothing but try to obey their master like they are driven to do. Driven to kill each other and basically commit suicide. Fighting a game cock is just as inhumane IMO but this is not about that. This is about Vick being a rep for PETA.

[BobbyFresco]

Hypocricy would mean that I actually torture animals then argue that Vick shouldn't. Your example is not and example of hypocrisy.

I actually volunteer at animal shelters. I don't agree that they put them to sleep. You are trying to add all of these points in here based on nothing. This thread isn't about all of the things we think are wrong when it comes to animals. To stay on topic, I am not arguing each and every animal treatment issue. I made this thread to discuss Vick and PETA. You want to discuss animal shelters? Make another thread :)


So because you don't kill the animals that you consume, that makes the "offense" ok? I'm sure you keep tabs on how humanely every one of your meals containing animal or animal bypriducts left life on this earth before being broken down by your stomach acids, correct?

Oh, and I can post smiley faces too. See::haha:

[BobbyFresco]

Oh and in keeping with the thread topic, I think Vick representing PETA is idiotic...I mean, it doesn't come across as very sincere, given the nature of the situation...

[Tracy]

So because you don't kill the animals that you consume, that makes the "offense" ok? I'm sure you keep tabs on how humanely every one of your meals containing animal or animal bypriducts left life on this earth before being broken down by your stomach acids, correct?

Oh, and I can post smiley faces too. See::haha:I'm not mad at you bud, that's why I am putting the smiley faces. I don't want to offend anyone over an intelligent debate. Got me?

And yes, I am saying it is ok to eat a non domesticated animal. I eat organic free range only and no I don't keep tabs on how they are killed. I leave that to the gov't who regulates what can be packaged as organic and free range. I don't kill them myself. That being said, it is not illegal to kill a chicken or cow for consumption purposes, it is however illegal to have dog fights.

Anymore points you would like for me to address? I would like for you to address my question. Do you think what he did was ok?

[Tracy]

Oh and in keeping with the thread topic, I think Vick representing PETA is idiotic...I mean, it doesn't come across as very sincere, given the nature of the situation...Great, then we are on the same page, so what exactly is your point? Now I am confused. You think it is ok to have dog fights, but not cool that PETA would consider him for a spokesperson? Please explain a little more.

[Vteckidd]

what he did was stupid and wrong. A multi millionaire fighting dogs is like ai didn't around Philly with a gun and weed in his trunk.

What he did IMO was inhumane. Breeding animals to fight is one thng. But subjecting them to electrocution torture drowning is morally wrong. Killing a cow for Me to eat not wrong IMO.

He was using animals for blood sport. Actually his main charges weren't for animal cruelty they were for racketeering and gambling

[BobbyFresco]

Great, then we are on the same page, so what exactly is your point? Now I am confused. You think it is ok to have dog fights, but not cool that PETA would consider him for a spokesperson? Please explain a little more.

a.Do I see an issue with dog fighting? No...Animals are animals, afterall....Humans choose to humanize animals...silly practice, I might add....

b. Vick representing PETA is about as smart a decision as an accussed pedophile being a representative for the Boys and Girls Club...it will not change his current image, it is counterproductive towards his objective of moving on, and like I said given the situation, it will not be looked at as a sincere move on his part considering the nature of his alleged crimes and all the blood thirsty people judging him.

[BobbyFresco]

what he did was stupid and wrong. A multi millionaire fighting dogs is like ai didn't around Philly with a gun and weed in his trunk.

What he did IMO was inhumane. Breeding animals to fight is one thng. But subjecting them to electrocution torture drowning is morally wrong. Killing a cow for Me to eat not wrong IMO.

He was using animals for blood sport. Actually his main charges weren't for animal cruelty they were for racketeering and gambling


Was it ever proven or was he ever directly accussed of any torture, murder, or of actually fighting dogs himself? Serious question because I don't know....

[Vteckidd]

Him personally there were accusations don't know if it was proven. He however knew it was going on and condoned it and that's as guilty as doing it.

I'm not arguing if what he did was as bad as xxxx, but he broke the law and big time for that he deserved what he got

Now he's out served his time. I say let him be PETA spokesperson

[BobbyFresco]

Him personally there were accusations don't know if it was proven. He however knew it was going on and condoned it and that's as guilty as doing it.

I'm not arguing if what he did was as bad as xxxx, but he broke the law and big time for that he deserved what he got

Now he's out served his time. I say let him be PETA spokesperson


At the end of the day, he broke the law and should have been punished...that I agree with, regardless of my opinions on anything else...I just feel like he should be allowed to go on with his life and be able to pursue whatever endeavors that may come his way.

[BanginJimmy]

a.Do I see an issue with dog fighting? No...Animals are animals, afterall....Humans choose to humanize animals...silly practice, I might add...


Dog fighting isnt natural though. Those dogs are trained to fight, and are tortured if they dont fight. That has nothing to do with animals being animals. It is a matter of human exploiting and torturing animals for the fun of it.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/11/22/2008-11-22_report_michael_vick_threw_untrained_fami.html


Vick was involved in hanging and drowning under performing dogs. I found a few mentions of electrical shock being used, but none said that Vick was involved in that.

[BobbyFresco]

Dog fighting isnt natural though. Those dogs are trained to fight, and are tortured if they dont fight. That has nothing to do with animals being animals. It is a matter of human exploiting and torturing animals for the fun of it.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/11/22/2008-11-22_report_michael_vick_threw_untrained_fami.html


Vick was involved in hanging and drowning under performing dogs. I found a few mentions of electrical shock being used, but none said that Vick was involved in that.


I'll give you the points you made on Vick's charges. That I can't dispute.
However, dogs and most all animals fight in the wild....so that being said, if dogs weren't domesticated, instinctually they would fight. Shit, even domesticated dogs still fight each other...

[BanginJimmy]

hmm how much common sense and civility does that truly show putting a dogs life over a humans, gtfo lol your kidding right?


Show me a single mention of putting a dogs life over a human's in general? I have said on several occasions that I do put a dog's life over Vick's, but that is because of a choice Vick made. It is not a general statement. I have no problems killing a dog as humanely as possible. I shot one on the side of the road a few months ago. It had been hit by a car and was obviously in pain. I shot it in the head and felt good about it.


Onto the idiot's guide to defending Vick question.

Yes, I do eat meat. The animals are typically stunned unconscious by a captive bot gun, like the one used by the killer in No Country For Old Men. This keeps the heart beating, but makes the killing painless for the animal. Jewish and Islamic slaughter houses kill their animals in a different fashion. They slit the animals throat without stunning it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_pistol

[BanginJimmy]

However, dogs and most all animals fight in the wild....so that being said, if dogs weren't domesticated, instinctually they would fight. Shit, even domesticated dogs still fight each other...


VERY few animals fights in the wild end in death. Most are just a power play over food or a mate and the loser runs or walks away with little injury.

I wont go into the animals that kill for food as that is a completely different discussion and my opinions would make most people here would think I was sick.

[BanginJimmy]

b. Vick representing PETA is about as smart a decision as an accussed pedophile being a representative for the Boys and Girls Club...it will not change his current image, it is counterproductive towards his objective of moving on, and like I said given the situation, it will not be looked at as a sincere move on his part considering the nature of his alleged crimes and all the blood thirsty people judging him.


This I agree with. Even if he is 100% sincere in his motives it will be seen as a PR stunt and further enrage most people. That rage will go public and might do more harm than good to his chances of getting back into the NFL. If I was on his PR team, the advice I would give him is to do his $10/hr job as quietly as possible and not even petition to get back into the NFL until next off season. Give this a little time to quiet back down.

[Vteckidd]

At the end of the day, he broke the law and should have been punished...that I agree with, regardless of my opinions on anything else...I just feel like he should be allowed to go on with his life and be able to pursue whatever endeavors that may come his way.
Agree 10000% do the crime do the time. He did let him go on

[IMPORTchic]

Was it ever proven or was he ever directly accussed of any torture, murder, or of actually fighting dogs himself? Serious question because I don't know....

YES! Google it. I had to do a project on this. Dont have the time to look it all up again.

[IMPORTchic]

Him personally there were accusations don't know if it was proven. He however knew it was going on and condoned it and that's as guilty as doing it.

I'm not arguing if what he did was as bad as xxxx, but he broke the law and big time for that he deserved what he got

Now he's out served his time. I say let him be PETA spokesperson

Come on now....let him be a spokesperson for something that is against what he DID!? How does that work? He is not sincere!! At all!! He has psychological problems to treat a dog like that.

THat is like the example provided about a pedi working for boys and girls club. It is just plainly not right.

[Vteckidd]

Ok so lets play devils advocate.

Say a guy robs a liquor store, and gets caught. He goes to jail for 4 years. He gets out. Should we brand him as a habitual armed robber the rest of his life?

There is such a thing as rehabilitation. It has yet to be seen if he has "learned his lesson". But i think him trying to be a spokesperson for an organization that champions (although a little looney) the rights of animals is a step in the right direction.

Was he wrong , YES. Should he be allowed to correct those mistakes, YES.

[IMPORTchic]

Ok so lets play devils advocate.

Say a guy robs a liquor store, and gets caught. He goes to jail for 4 years. He gets out. Should we brand him as a habitual armed robber the rest of his life?

There is such a thing as rehabilitation. It has yet to be seen if he has "learned his lesson". But i think him trying to be a spokesperson for an organization that champions (although a little looney) the rights of animals is a step in the right direction.

Was he wrong , YES. Should he be allowed to correct those mistakes, YES.

I am not saying brand him for life as that, but I DO NOT agree with him being a spokesperson for them. I think it is all too fresh still. He has not even had time being back in the real world to see what he is going to do. He might relapse and do it again. It is proven that gambling is a habit. He might be in that trap with dog fighting and still continue to do it, because he is one of those people that do not care about dogs well being and are heartless to have ever done it in the first place. I think he needs to just be released back in the real world and leave PETA alone. THat is just trying too hard IMO to get his public image back.

[BanginJimmy]

OSay a guy robs a liquor store, and gets caught. He goes to jail for 4 years. He gets out. Should we brand him as a habitual armed robber the rest of his life?

There is such a thing as rehabilitation. It has yet to be seen if he has "learned his lesson". But i think him trying to be a spokesperson for an organization that champions (although a little looney) the rights of animals is a step in the right direction.

Was he wrong , YES. Should he be allowed to correct those mistakes, YES.


But this wasnt a 1 time thing. To compare apples to apples, lets try this.

A man has a 200K a year job and starts robbing 1 liquor store a week. He finally gets caught after he robs 10 of them. Should we brand him an armed robber for life? Yes, we should. No amount of money is going to be enough to make him stop and his worsened financial situation will only make it worse.

That example is FAR closer o the Vick situation than your's is.

[SPOOLIN]

relapse?, come on guys its dog fighting not heroine.

[Hondatwin23]

Wasn't he charge for financing dog fights and wasn't proven to be at any of fights actually. Here is my point that I will have you guys and gals decide.

Man gets shot 50 times(true story) by 4 officers of the law. Not even a charge for manslaughter for excessive use of force

Next a mans family is running a dog fighting ring from time to time an animal will die. Man happens to be famous and rich, so its know he provided the area for the fights. Man gets 24 months in jail.

Compare the two and this is why madoff and bush was able to do what they did cause, cause as americas I think we focus on the wrong things

Now before someone goes super CNN analyst on me. This is my opinion and nana bobo....lol

[BanginJimmy]

Wasn't he charge for financing dog fights and wasn't proven to be at any of fights actually. Here is my point that I will have you guys and gals decide.

He was charged with RICO, that is far worse than dog fighting. It is the same thing that was designed to fight the mob.


Man gets shot 50 times(true story) by 4 officers of the law. Not even a charge for manslaughter for excessive use of force

simple difference, the man shot by the cops was a criminal and posed a credible threat to the cops. Show me any court president or law that tells you how many times a criminal can be shot to be called excessive. Then maybe you can play that game.


Next a mans family is running a dog fighting ring from time to time an animal will die. Man happens to be famous and rich, so its know he provided the area for the fights. Man gets 24 months in jail.

It wasnt the just the man's family that was fighting the dogs. You are acting like Vick wasnt involved. He was personally involved in the fights, and in the killing of the dogs. There are reports of him being involved in the torture, but no proof of that.


Compare the two and this is why madoff and bush was able to do what they did cause, cause as americas I think we focus on the wrong things

What is there to compare? Two completely separate situations, 2 completely different outcomes. Madoff will go to jail for FAR longer than Vick did. He will also end up paying back a very alrge portion of the money he stole. It will leave him broke, and it will probably lead to his wife losing everything also.

I'm not sure where you are going with Bush. He did nothing illegal. Then again, I have learned to expect the ignorant people of this country to take every shot at Bush they can. They dont even care if their shot at him is even pertinent to the conversation.


Now before someone goes super CNN analyst on me. This is my opinion and nana bobo....lol

This last sentence really showed your level of intelligence. You dont care if it is in any way reasonable or based in fact. You just want to have an opinion to claim to have an opinion.

[BanginJimmy]

relapse, come on guys its dog fighting not heroine.

Not sure what your point is, but being a sociopath means he will most likely commit more crimes on top of the ones no one knows about yet.

[Hondatwin23]

the man shot by the cops was a criminal and posed a credible threat to the cops. Show me any court president or law that tells you how many times a criminal can be shot to be called excessive. Then maybe you can play that game.

with comments like this it can easily be shown that you just want to be right so i will let you have it. and also i was raised with sean bell and he wasnt a criminal and last time i check it only take 1 bullet to kill someone

i do feel bad for the dogs but once a debt has been paid, it has been paid and at least give him the chance to make rights in the world.

[BanginJimmy]

with comments like this it can easily be shown that you just want to be right so i will let you have it. and also i was raised with sean bell and he wasnt a criminal and last time i check it only take 1 bullet to kill someone

Really? I know more than a couple people that have been shot and lived. Shooting someone 50 times is excessive in the literal sense, but is perfectly fine in the legal sense just so long as it was legal to shoot him 1 time.


i do feel bad for the dogs but once a debt has been paid, it has been paid and at least give him the chance to make rights in the world.

No one has said that Vick should be executed for his crimes. What this thread is about is the hypocrisy and uselessness of him speaking on behalf of PETA.

[Vteckidd]

ehh i think you guys calling him a sociopath over dog fighting is a stretch of the imagination.

What he did was wrong, and what he financed was illegal. He got caught. Most criminals do multiple crimes BEFORE they are caught, thats nothing knew. After you do it a few times you think you can get away with it. IMO it doesnt mean a person cant be rehabilitated.

Vick was found guilty of RACKETEERING AND GAMBLING in both state and federal cases.

He never actually was at any of these fights from what i can see and read about. He was more of the bankroll. He setup and financed the living arrangements and houses where the fighting took place. But i cant find anything that says he was actually present.

He apolagized, donated 1 million to the dogs that were fighting, and if he thinks being a PETA spokesperson would help, why not?

People make mistakes, they can correct them. Even though what he did and condoned was disgustingly brutal, i think he should be given a second chance.

[Hondatwin23]

ehh i think you guys calling him a sociopath over dog fighting is a stretch of the imagination.

What he did was wrong, and what he financed was illegal. He got caught. Most criminals do multiple crimes BEFORE they are caught, thats nothing knew. After you do it a few times you think you can get away with it. IMO it doesnt mean a person cant be rehabilitated.

Vick was found guilty of RACKETEERING AND GAMBLING in both state and federal cases.

He never actually was at any of these fights from what i can see and read about. He was more of the bankroll. He setup and financed the living arrangements and houses where the fighting took place. But i cant find anything that says he was actually present.

He apolagized, donated 1 million to the dogs that were fighting, and if he thinks being a PETA spokesperson would help, why not?

People make mistakes, they can correct them. Even though what he did and condoned was disgustingly brutal, i think he should be given a second chance.

THANK YOU!!!

[Hondatwin23]

[QUOTE=BanginJimmy]Really? I know more than a couple people that have been shot and lived. Shooting someone 50 times is excessive in the literal sense, but is perfectly fine in the legal sense just so long as it was legal to shoot him 1 time.

yes, i knew him and ive meet with his friends that was with him but as for the comment about literal and legal senses.....i have no more words for you
:no:

[sshonda2004]

thank you x2, good grief this whole thing was blown way out of proportion.
ehh i think you guys calling him a sociopath over dog fighting is a stretch of the imagination.

What he did was wrong, and what he financed was illegal. He got caught. Most criminals do multiple crimes BEFORE they are caught, thats nothing knew. After you do it a few times you think you can get away with it. IMO it doesnt mean a person cant be rehabilitated.

Vick was found guilty of RACKETEERING AND GAMBLING in both state and federal cases.

He never actually was at any of these fights from what i can see and read about. He was more of the bankroll. He setup and financed the living arrangements and houses where the fighting took place. But i cant find anything that says he was actually present.

He apolagized, donated 1 million to the dogs that were fighting, and if he thinks being a PETA spokesperson would help, why not?

People make mistakes, they can correct them. Even though what he did and condoned was disgustingly brutal, i think he should be given a second chance.

[BanginJimmy]

ehh i think you guys calling him a sociopath over dog fighting is a stretch of the imagination.

I dont call him a sociopath because of the dog fighting, but because of the torture he inflicted on the dogs. Anyone that can take pleasure in torturing a dog will not hesitate to do the same to a human.



He never actually was at any of these fights from what i can see and read about. He was more of the bankroll. He setup and financed the living arrangements and houses where the fighting took place. But i cant find anything that says he was actually present.

He never admitted to being there, but it is taken as fact that he was present at, and participated with the hanging and drowning of at least 6 dogs. There have also been several dog fighters come forward, anonymously of course, that said he was at some of the fights and one called him a big man in the scene because of his high dollar better habits.




People make mistakes, they can correct them. Even though what he did and condoned was disgustingly brutal, i think he should be given a second chance.

I wont call it a mistake because mistakes dont happen continuously over at least 7 years. I do think he has done his time and he should be allowed to rejoin the human race, but that doesnt mean the NFL should allow him back within their ranks. I hope Goddell stands up and tells him that he went too far and he is no longer eligible to play NFL football.

[Hondatwin23]

thank you x2, good grief this whole thing was blown way out of proportion.

:cheers:

[SPOOLIN]

ehh i think you guys calling him a sociopath over dog fighting is a stretch of the imagination.

What he did was wrong, and what he financed was illegal. He got caught. Most criminals do multiple crimes BEFORE they are caught, thats nothing knew. After you do it a few times you think you can get away with it. IMO it doesnt mean a person cant be rehabilitated.

Vick was found guilty of RACKETEERING AND GAMBLING in both state and federal cases.

He never actually was at any of these fights from what i can see and read about. He was more of the bankroll. He setup and financed the living arrangements and houses where the fighting took place. But i cant find anything that says he was actually present.

He apolagized, donated 1 million to the dogs that were fighting, and if he thinks being a PETA spokesperson would help, why not?

People make mistakes, they can correct them. Even though what he did and condoned was disgustingly brutal, i think he should be given a second chance.

yeah i just meant to say....people are talking about how he could relapse....this isn't a drug addiction or a chemical addiction, its just some dude making side money...the wrong wrong way...he got busted, im sure he would not do that crap again. lol

[BanginJimmy]

yeah i just meant to say....people are talking about how he could relapse....this isn't a drug addiction or a chemical addiction, its just some dude making side money...the wrong wrong way...he got busted, im sure he would not do that crap again. lol

Gambling is an addiction, no matter how much money you have. What makes you so sure he wont do it again?

[IMPORTchic]

Gambling is an addiction, no matter how much money you have. What makes you so sure he wont do it again?

EXACTLY.

And only point I have left besdies for the fact of hating him and thinking that he is a cold hearted motherfucker, is that he should not be a spokes person for them. That is insane.

Hey go shake a few babies and then work for the March of Dimes....I mean wtf?!:no:

I have no respect for people that abuse animals....or dont take care of them properly....it is rediculous!! No excuses!!!

[tony]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

[Vteckidd]

Gambling is an addiction, no matter how much money you have. What makes you so sure he wont do it again?
What makes you so sure HE WILL DO IT AGAIN.

[FlipKing]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

Reps for being absolutely correct.

[VIP Style]

hmph, absolutely. lets see what they have to say about that.
So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

[Hondatwin23]

Ha! PETA sounds like they will have new members soon.

[Professor X]

I have read both sides of this and I can see both arguements. However, I agree with others in that he should not be branded as a dog fighter for life. I will use an example I feel that most of us can relate to.

I feel safe in saying that the majority of the members on this board have participated in street racing at some point in our lives, myself included; for some it was earlier today, for others it was years ago. I find it hard to believe that none of us were aware that it was illegal considering that we did it behind industrial buildings in the wee hours of the morning. That being said, alot of us have moved on to racing in legal sanctioned events or have moved on to other more productive and legal means of fun. We put our human lives along with other human lives in danger and although it didn't take the loss of a life for me to learn my lesson, unfortunately for some it might. I am definitely not a street racer, although I street raced on numerous occasions for years.

What does it take for a human to learn a lesson? We all are different in respects to learning so noone can say for sure whether Vick has learned his lesson or not.

[AirMax95]

Yeah, its amazing how people are on some Phd psychological type stuff in here.

"He is not sincere", "He will do it again". Since when is everyone now such a good judge of character? Drug addicts, prostitutes, womanizers, gamblers, street racers, liars, cheaters, etc. all have the capacity to be changed. Get off his back and support him on a road to a positive life.

Our society does not even treat domestic abuse and murder this bad (As far as AFTER their sentence has been served). Lets not get started on hate crimes and the like. Vick did something that is "bad", was caught, judged, and sentenced. He served his time, and now he is doing what he can to get back to the life he once had. Should he not get that chance? If PETA feels he is sincere and can make a difference in the animal rights world then let them do it.

...and to the people who are yelling that he should not play football again, STFU. I am not a hardcore football fan, but I don't think he should be denied his talent to play.

[FlipKing]

everyone acts like he is the only person to ever dog fight. Lets hang out on friday night, I could take you to 5. Just saying, alot of people do it and they dont all go to jail for a year and lose 120 mil.

[Professor X]

I'll play Devil's Advocate as far as Vick being a spokesperson for PETA. I can't think of a better candidate to speak out than someone who made a poor choice and paid substantially for it. During this string of events, Vick has gone from the highest paid player in the NFL to petitioning to be reinstated. After reinstatement, he still has to prove himself to potentially interested parties for a JOB! He will likely not make half of what he did before. This statement is not meant for anyone to feel sorry about Vick's financial situation, but to show how he has paid financially for his choices.

On another note, let's consider that PETA is trying to reach a different demographic that they believe Vick can appeal to. If a kid sees me on TV saying that animal cruelty is bad, they would likely care less. However, if Vick shows up on the TV screen, the message will carry a lot more weight. If we can get the message out there about how harmful this type of conduct is, hopefully people will avoid it at all costs.

[BanginJimmy]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

I believe most people can be rehabilitated if they have proper motivation, but not those that get their jollies through the suffering of others. Their is something very seriously wrong mentally in someone that enjoys that.

There is also the issue of a gambling addiction. If he had a healthy enjoyment of gambling, Vick had the money to head to Vegas at any time. Instead he chose to bet large sums on dog fighting. That tells me that he enjoys the rush of an illegal activity just as much as the gambling. Nothing in his actions give any indication of repentance. As I have said before, he could be 100% sincere in his work with PETA, but the average Joe will only see it as a publicity stunt and make the criticisms of his character even louder.


Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

You can talk about social conditioning if you want, but that would be the same as excusing the actions of the SS during WWII. They were conditioned by German society to believe Jews were a lesser being than an Aryan. You say it was only a dog, the SS said it was only a Jew. Slaver owners said it was only a ******. Islamic terrorists say it is only an infidel. To say that this is any different than dog fighting is ignoring human nature and the power of social conditioning. The same social conditioning that humanizes dogs and makes them a very real part of our families.

[Tracy]

I'm not going to get into society and all of that mumbo jumbo. Like I said, this thread wasn't meant for everyone's laundry list of what they think is wrong with the US and society and blah blah blah. Just because we treat one thing a certain way doesn't make another crime less pertinent. They are all completely separate issues and should be dealth with as such.

This thread was meant to state that I PERSONALLY don't agree with what HE did in this situation. I don't think he would be a good, SINCERE rep for PETA (not that I entirely agree with PETA). I PERSONALLY feel that it is a PR move (I am in the business of PR actually, so I happen to understand it quite well).

I do believe people can be rehabilitated, but generally speaking, I don't think prison is the place you get rehabilitated (dog fighting, domestic abuse, drugs, whatever) and the whole prison system is way flawed in that respect...that is also another separate long thread topic. I think time, counseling, restitution and relevant community service, etc. (maybe in dog shelters and fostering services for abused animals) is the best form of rehabilitation (and he has started the process) IMO, let me restate, IMO, the time he did in jail wasn't enough alone to rehabilitate him.

I also have little sympathy for how he might have been "raised" or his culture as it pertains to dog fighting. I was raised by 2 coke head free-basers and I am not...despite how I was raised and the culture surrounding a house hold of junkies. To me, it's just not an excuse to do wrong. He went to college, he was socialized and he knows the difference between right and wrong. Point blank.

[Tracy]

Get off his back and support him on a road to a positive life.



.

When did it become my job to support him in his life choices? If it were my job, he wouldn't have been involved with dog fights to begin with. Moot point if you ask me.

[BanginJimmy]

Yeah, its amazing how people are on some Phd psychological type stuff in here.

"He is not sincere", "He will do it again". Since when is everyone now such a good judge of character? Drug addicts, prostitutes, womanizers, gamblers, street racers, liars, cheaters, etc. all have the capacity to be changed. Get off his back and support him on a road to a positive life.

Sorry, I'm currently in a criminology class and alot of the psycho babble is very fresh in my mind. We will actually be doing a discussion on the whole Vick thing next thursday. Part of the discussion on labeling and social conditioning.


Our society does not even treat domestic abuse and murder this bad (As far as AFTER their sentence has been served). Lets not get started on hate crimes and the like. Vick did something that is "bad", was caught, judged, and sentenced. He served his time, and now he is doing what he can to get back to the life he once had. Should he not get that chance? If PETA feels he is sincere and can make a difference in the animal rights world then let them do it.

And he is getting off FAR better than a 17yo kid that has sex with a 15yo and is labeled a sex offender for the rest of his life. Comparing the results of different crimes is a pointless argument.


...and to the people who are yelling that he should not play football again, STFU. I am not a hardcore football fan, but I don't think he should be denied his talent to play.

I dont think he should play again because he isnt all that good to start with. That is beside the point though. I think he will be suspended for the 09 season at a minimum. Then depending on his attitude Goddell will consider a petition to re-enter the league before the '10 draft.

[AirMax95]

When did it become my job to support him in his life choices? If it were my job, he wouldn't have been involved with dog fights to begin with. Moot point if you ask me.

You are correct, but being negative about the situation is not helping anyone. You don't have to support him, but slamming him is not helping anyone or anything.

[Tracy]

You are correct, but being negative about the situation is not helping anyone. You don't have to support him, but slamming him is not helping anyone or anything.Really? How is my thread on IA affecting his situation? Enlighten me.

edit: I am not here to help anyone. Just having an intelligent convo. I never thought that my thread would change the world, hun...

[Vteckidd]

I dont think people should HAVE to support him, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Of COURSE its a PR move, and its a smart one. Vick is aiming to get back in the limelight and turn his image around. What better way to do that to work for an organization that is big into animal rights.

Whether people think he is sincere or not is yet to be determined. But if i were his agent, thats what i would have done.

It gets people TALKING about him, which there is no such thing as bad publicity. This next year will make or break his career (or comeback). He has to prove to the NFL that he is rehabilitated and ready to be a role model/citizen.

Whether you like it or not, being a PETA spokesperson will go along way with the governing body. Its like charity.

He would also be smart to do it without being paid

[Tracy]

I guess ignorant people value good PR over sincerity, so you have a point since there are more ignorant people in this world than not.

[BanginJimmy]

Gotta agree with Tracy on this one. This thing with PETA just reeks of desperation PR. Sport of like Gibbs does every time Biden opens his mouth. There is no reason to believe he is sorry for anything more than getting caught.

[Vteckidd]

I guess ignorant people value good PR over sincerity, so you have a point since there are more ignorant people in this world than not.
Ok, how do you think he should go about being SINCERE?

I mean the problem is you have 50% of the poeple that think he will NEVER be sincere, and 50% of the people that think he is making the right move.

IMO, its a lose lose for him. He cant win either way. If he kept his mouth shut and stayed below the radar, he has nowhere to go and people would think he wasnt sincere about his mistakes.

Now that hes going off about being a PETA spokesperson its a PR stunt.

Either way, we are talking about it and thats all that matters in his world

[Vteckidd]

Tracy you said in here that you were raised by drug addicts. If those people are now clean and on the straight and narrow, should we limit their interaction in society because of past transgressions?

I dont think so, i believe everyone CAN get a fresh start and start over.

thats my opinion of course.

[BanginJimmy]

Ok, how do you think he should go about being SINCERE?

I mean the problem is you have 50% of the poeple that think he will NEVER be sincere, and 50% of the people that think he is making the right move.

IMO, its a lose lose for him. He cant win either way. If he kept his mouth shut and stayed below the radar, he has nowhere to go and people would think he wasnt sincere about his mistakes.

Now that hes going off about being a PETA spokesperson its a PR stunt.

Either way, we are talking about it and thats all that matters in his world


There are other ways to get positive publicity than going too far to the other side. He could do simple things like working in a shelter cleaning cages for a few hours on saturdays without advertising it to the press, but making sure they know he was there and make sure they report it. A decent PR firm could easily make that happen. Little things like that will help ease him back into the press and set the stage for a MUCH more believable PETA add. I also think he would gain MUCH more credibility doing an ad for the SPCA before an ad for PETA. PETA has a horrible name in the animal right community.

[Vteckidd]

There are other ways to get positive publicity than going too far to the other side. He could do simple things like working in a shelter cleaning cages for a few hours on saturdays without advertising it to the press, but making sure they know he was there and make sure they report it. A decent PR firm could easily make that happen. Little things like that will help ease him back into the press and set the stage for a MUCH more believable PETA add. I also think he would gain MUCH more credibility doing an ad for the SPCA before an ad for PETA. PETA has a horrible name in the animal right community.
well i guess thats why they get paid the big bucks and we dont (PR people handling this)

[BanginJimmy]

well i guess thats why they get paid the big bucks and we dont (PR people handling this)


this is true

[Tracy]

Tracy you said in here that you were raised by drug addicts. If those people are now clean and on the straight and narrow, should we limit their interaction in society because of past transgressions?

I dont think so, i believe everyone CAN get a fresh start and start over.

thats my opinion of course.

You are asking the wrong person to prove your point when it comes to his. I haven't talked to my brother in 7 and I JUST started talking to my mother a few months ago after 10 years. They will never change. That being said...I already mentioned that I believe that people can be rehabilitated, BUT that PRISON is not the place to get that. It takes much more for most people than that. There are obviously exceptions to every rule. And if you want to make a little full circle out of this whole post, my family members practically live in prison and they are far from rehabilitated.

[Tracy]

Ok, how do you think he should go about being SINCERE?

I mean the problem is you have 50% of the poeple that think he will NEVER be sincere, and 50% of the people that think he is making the right move.

IMO, its a lose lose for him. He cant win either way. If he kept his mouth shut and stayed below the radar, he has nowhere to go and people would think he wasnt sincere about his mistakes.

Now that hes going off about being a PETA spokesperson its a PR stunt.

Either way, we are talking about it and thats all that matters in his world

Yea, that's all just life I guess. Most of the time you cant win with everyone. No matter how hard you try to please everyone. There will always be someone there to say you messed up.

I say that it takes a certain kind of person to do that in the first place. I just can't understand it and that's why I am so upset about it. I feel like my dog is my baby. I missed her so much when I was gone this weekend. She has such a personality and I always talk to Dan about how she could have very well been born into being a fighting dog. All of that personality—turned into a fighting dog.

I took some time to look at some pictures and some dog fighting videos, just to see how gruesome it was or was not) before I made a complete judgment. I watched 2 videos for about 10 seconds a piece. I was grossed the F out. Like I said, I just don't understand it. :(

[IMPORTchic]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

Could you please quote me where I directly said that he can not be rehabilitated.

I plainly just dont think prison is where that rehab is at. Him getting back into society is going to throw many things at him. Who knows what he is going to be around. I hope the dude can get his act together and no make the same mistakes, for the dogs lives.

I stated many times I just dont agree with him being involved with the PR with PETA. His ass should be doing community service with humane societies or something IMO. On the FREE to say the least.

[BobbyFresco]

Could you please quote me where I directly said that he can not be rehabilitated.

I plainly just dont think prison is where that rehab is at. Him getting back into society is going to throw many things at him. Who knows what he is going to be around. I hope the dude can get his act together and no make the same mistakes, for the dogs lives.

I stated many times I just dont agree with him being involved with the PR with PETA. His ass should be doing community service with humane societies or something IMO. On the FREE to say the least.

There is no course of action that Vick could take that would satisfy all those who judge him. As it has been stated previously in this thread, it is a lose/lose situation for him in regards to how he and his handlers should deal with rehabilitating his public image. Volunteering at humane socities and the like will most certainly not be anymore advantageous than being a spokesperson for PETA. Honestly, considering the image that PETA presently carries, I don't believe it is in his best interest to have that association anyway...IMO, he has paid his dues both legally and monetarily and he should not have to jump through additional hoops for anyone. He should lay low and work on getting his career back on track. I say again, let the man be and allow him to pick up the pieces of what is left of his life.

[tony]

Could you please quote me where I directly said that he can not be rehabilitated.

I plainly just dont think prison is where that rehab is at. Him getting back into society is going to throw many things at him. Who knows what he is going to be around. I hope the dude can get his act together and no make the same mistakes, for the dogs lives.

I stated many times I just dont agree with him being involved with the PR with PETA. His ass should be doing community service with humane societies or something IMO. On the FREE to say the least.

I said you believe it, not that you said it directly. Everything you've said about Vick here points toward that. You think him roaming free is somehow going to rehabilitate him but a couple of years in prison did nothing? Interesting logic.

Anyway, I agree with Bobby. Its not like PETA is this highly respected organization, he'd be doing less for his PR than more for theirs which leads me to believe 1 of 2 things;

a. His time in jail and the onslaught of attacks from PETA has his perception of the organization jaded and he thinks they are legitimate when really they're a laughing stock in the media.

b. He wants to set things right, doesn't know how and thinks PETA is the most notable way to go about it.

Theres some things I would try to explain to a lot of you about dog fighting and that culture but that would assume you're able to set aside prejudices (no, not racial) for a second and have an open mind. Judging by what I've seen here that would be a wasted effort.

[IMPORTchic]

I said you believe it, not that you said it directly. Everything you've said about Vick here points toward that. You think him roaming free is somehow going to rehabilitate him but a couple of years in prison did nothing? Interesting logic.

Anyway, I agree with Bobby. Its not like PETA is this highly respected organization, he'd be doing less for his PR than more for theirs which leads me to believe 1 of 2 things;

a. His time in jail and the onslaught of attacks from PETA has his perception of the organization jaded and he thinks they are legitimate when really they're a laughing stock in the media.

b. He wants to set things right, doesn't know how and thinks PETA is the most notable way to go about it.

Theres some things I would try to explain to a lot of you about dog fighting and that culture but that would assume you're able to set aside prejudices (no, not racial) for a second and have an open mind. Judging by what I've seen here that would be a wasted effort.

Yet again putting words in my mouth. I do not directly think he can not be rehabilitated, but only he can choose his path in life. I didnt say that him being in prison did nothing either, for him to roam free.... Prison was his punishment for his actions. Now he needs to make things right.

With the way you talk you must know first hand about dog fighting. So please enlighten us. I am very capable of having an open mind. What other prejudices are you speaking of?

[BanginJimmy]

a. His time in jail and the onslaught of attacks from PETA has his perception of the organization jaded and he thinks they are legitimate when really they're a laughing stock in the media.

b. He wants to set things right, doesn't know how and thinks PETA is the most notable way to go about it.

I agree with both of these statements. Someone has him convinced that PETA is the way to credibility.


Theres some things I would try to explain to a lot of you about dog fighting and that culture but that would assume you're able to set aside prejudices (no, not racial) for a second and have an open mind. Judging by what I've seen here that would be a wasted effort.

I would absolutely love to hear this.

It probably would be a wasted effort because outside of mental illness, there is no reasonable excuse for gaining pleasure from the suffering of others.

[Vteckidd]

what about the running of the bulls in spain?

Bullfighting?

Rodeos? i mean they cage an animal and then prod/spur it before they release it to intentionally piss it off.

How is that not inhumane

[tony]

Yet again putting words in my mouth. I do not directly think he can not be rehabilitated, but only he can choose his path in life. I didnt say that him being in prison did nothing either, for him to roam free.... Prison was his punishment for his actions. Now he needs to make things right.

With the way you talk you must know first hand about dog fighting. So please enlighten us. I am very capable of having an open mind. What other prejudices are you speaking of?

hmm...


EXACTLY.

And only point I have left besdies for the fact of hating him and thinking that he is a cold hearted motherfucker, is that he should not be a spokes person for them. That is insane.




He is not sincere!! At all!! He has psychological problems to treat a dog like that.




He might be in that trap with dog fighting and still continue to do it, because he is one of those people that do not care about dogs well being and are heartless to have ever done it in the first place.

Since you say I'm putting words in your mouth, I give you your own. And enlighten you? Enlighten yourself, I don't do long informative posts any more. People with such strong opinions tend to cling to them no matter how ignorant or judgemental those opinions are.

[Tracy]

I'm pretty open minded actually. Just sayin'.

[IMPORTchic]

what about the running of the bulls in spain?

Bullfighting?

Rodeos? i mean they cage an animal and then prod/spur it before they release it to intentionally piss it off.

How is that not inhumane

You semi have a point......then again though....dogs>bulls. Bulls have a brain about the size of a peanut it seems. I use to work with them every day. They are not domesticated pets. Also, I dont know much about bullfighting, but I know rodeos are not bad because they are not fighting til death. A bull in bull riding has its nuts tied up by a strap. That is no diff then you wearing tight underwear...



...not that you do or anything. lmao. *runs*

[Tracy]

what about the running of the bulls in spain?

Bullfighting?

Rodeos? i mean they cage an animal and then prod/spur it before they release it to intentionally piss it off.

How is that not inhumaneOh damn. I was discussing this thread with someone last night and I actually introduced all all these "sports" as things I don't agree with. I get really upset even at the horses they use in places like New Orleans for drawing carriages. It hurts my feelings to see them out there with all of that crap on them and thing in their mouth in the baking sun. I could go on and on, but I won't because I am trying to keep on the subject as much as I would like to go off on tangents myself.

[IMPORTchic]

hmm...








Since you say I'm putting words in your mouth, I give you your own. And enlighten you? Enlighten yourself, I don't do long informative posts any more. People with such strong opinions tend to cling to them no matter how ignorant or judgemental those opinions are.

You are correct. :yay:I DONT think that prison rehabilitated his psychological problems. Although I DO think that there are forms of rehab in the real world he can seek if wanted.

WHat is your point?! :doh:

[IMPORTchic]

Oh damn. I was discussing this thread with someone last night and I actually introduced all all these "sports" as things I don't agree with. I get really upset even at the horses they use in places like New Orleans for drawing carriages. It hurts my feelings to see them out there with all of that crap on them and thing in their mouth in the baking sun. I could go on and on, but I won't because I am trying to keep on the subject as much as I would like to go off on tangents myself.

Horses>bulls.....that is all I am saying.

Do I think it is 100% right to have bull riding and stuff? No. But I do not have a strong opinion about it like I do dogs. My dog is my child.

EDIT: my American Staffordshire Terrier AKA Pit is my child.

[Tracy]

Tony, you are pretty good at sticking to your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make you closed minded just because you don't sway with the wind. Nah mean?

[tony]

I'm pretty open minded actually. Just sayin'.

lol I wasn't referring to you Tracy, I know you keep an open mind. You know how it is with IA, opinions go back and forth with nobody really taking anything away from the other.

*edited for a typo i had deleted

[Tracy]

lol I wasn't referring to you Tracy, I know you keep an open mind. You know how it is with IA, opinions go back and forth with nobody really taking anything away from the other.
er than football but feel comfortable labeling him a psycho.Ok :P I just don't want anyone getting mad at me over Michael Vick :) and I am the one who started the thread. I just like some debate once in a while. It helps me keep me on my toes.

[tony]

Tony, you are pretty good at sticking to your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make you closed minded just because you don't sway with the wind. Nah mean?

Damnit I had typed up a paragraph on how I feel about that then deleted it. Anyway, I do get swayed on subjects.. I learn a lot from these discussions by being proven wrong. (sometimes lol) During the election Mike (KiDD), Jimmy, they set me straight on some things I felt strongly on.. and I learned from them.

Typically I just want people to see the other side. My extended family is from the deep south, dog fighting is like nothing to them. Me personally, I can't bear to watch or even see a dog squeal but I understand my environment is much different than the one they grew up in. Do I fault them for it? Judge them? No, because at the end of the day I'm not perfect MYSELF for me to say that they are evil, or psycho.

Vick knew the laws, he broke them, otherwise there would have been no reason to lie. If he is to be judged, judge him as a criminal and he already was by a jury of his peers. But for me to say what is in that mans heart.. I would be no better than the label I am placing on him because I have not walked in his shoes.

[Tracy]

Damnit I had typed up a paragraph on how I feel about that then deleted it. Anyway, I do get swayed on subjects.. I learn a lot from these discussions by being proven wrong. (sometimes lol) During the election Mike (KiDD), Jimmy, they set me straight on some things I felt strongly on.. and I learned from them.

Typically I just want people to see the other side. My extended family is from the deep south, dog fighting is like nothing to them. Me personally, I can't bear to watch or even see a dog squeal but I understand my environment is much different than the one they grew up in. Do I fault them for it? Judge them? No, because at the end of the day I'm not perfect MYSELF for me to say that they are evil, or psycho.

Vick knew the laws, he broke them, otherwise there would have been no reason to lie. If he is to be judged, judge him as a criminal and he already was by a jury of his peers. But for me to say what is in that mans heart.. I would be no better than the label I am placing on him because I have not walked in his shoes.

It's not really my intention to label him. I just happen to enjoy reading up on the psychology of serial killers and there is strong evidence that suggests that people who torture animals and find joy in it have issues. To me that's not judging, just statistics which are facts.

I do say that he is not sorry, but you are right, that's not my place to say. I guess it's just not within my realm to understand based on my love for animals and my experiences with them. I cried my eyes out when my gerbils died. They are buried in my back yard in nice boxes with a hand made metal cross for a headstone. They are frickin' rodents.....

[IMPORTchic]

Damnit I had typed up a paragraph on how I feel about that then deleted it. Anyway, I do get swayed on subjects.. I learn a lot from these discussions by being proven wrong. (sometimes lol) During the election Mike (KiDD), Jimmy, they set me straight on some things I felt strongly on.. and I learned from them.

Typically I just want people to see the other side. My extended family is from the deep south, dog fighting is like nothing to them. Me personally, I can't bear to watch or even see a dog squeal but I understand my environment is much different than the one they grew up in. Do I fault them for it? Judge them? No, because at the end of the day I'm not perfect MYSELF for me to say that they are evil, or psycho.

Vick knew the laws, he broke them, otherwise there would have been no reason to lie. If he is to be judged, judge him as a criminal and he already was by a jury of his peers. But for me to say what is in that mans heart.. I would be no better than the label I am placing on him because I have not walked in his shoes.

You have a point in ways and I see it. I will admit that. I will also say though I grew up on a FARM, in the DEEP SOUTH COUNTRY along with my whole family! Many of my neighbors use to have dog/cock fighting all the time and my family along with others in the community got them busted on several occasions. THAT is why I am so strongly opinionated about it against what you were saying. I was brought up right beside it. Still live a mile from there. Yet I was not EVER involved and have always been against it. Those people that done that in my area 100% white trash rednecks that caused our community to have helicopters to fly over for years in search of that kind of stuff along with drugs which was found on many occasions. This is a 13 mile from civilization church based community I am talking about here. I find no legit excuses for him. Just like I dont believe people that grew up in a drug household have to be that way either. You have a choice for the most part in life on which path to take.

Vick screwed up. Point proven. Whether or not he will ever be involved with such again is another story. I believe statistics about people that abuse animals being ill-hearted. That is my opinion as everyone has theirs. Hopefully I am wrong about Vick. Hopefully he is not as bad as the media I have saw has led me to believe.

[BanginJimmy]

Damnit I had typed up a paragraph on how I feel about that then deleted it. Anyway, I do get swayed on subjects.. I learn a lot from these discussions by being proven wrong. (sometimes lol) During the election Mike (KiDD), Jimmy, they set me straight on some things I felt strongly on.. and I learned from them.

Typically I just want people to see the other side. My extended family is from the deep south, dog fighting is like nothing to them. Me personally, I can't bear to watch or even see a dog squeal but I understand my environment is much different than the one they grew up in. Do I fault them for it? Judge them? No, because at the end of the day I'm not perfect MYSELF for me to say that they are evil, or psycho.

Vick knew the laws, he broke them, otherwise there would have been no reason to lie. If he is to be judged, judge him as a criminal and he already was by a jury of his peers. But for me to say what is in that mans heart.. I would be no better than the label I am placing on him because I have not walked in his shoes.


I know where you are going with this and I still dont buy it. It would be one thing if he never left that environment, but he is supposedly college educated. He could have easily left that life behind in favor of more healthy forms of entertainment. Hell, if he really wanted to see to the death fighting, there are places in Asia that have them on a regular basis. The difference is that it is 2 consenting adults that are involved and not animals that were never given a chance at something else.

[big crunch22]

The nfl should get off its high horse and let vick play. he got caught doing something bad, and he has paid a huge price for it. What more can you do to someone. do they want him to wear pants made of barbed wire?

[EJ25RUN]

do they want him to wear pants made of barbed wire?

Maybe then i'd watch football.


On second thought......i'll stick to futbol.

[redblackfan]

I still like Mick Vick and good for him

[Tracy]

good for you.