1st 350 Billion bailout...

[Paul]

Last night John Stewart had chick on that's heading up the board monitoring the bailout $. She is an ex Harvard Financial Professor.

Bush Admin gave out the first 350 Billion to banks and told Americans it was an investment now numbers are showing that for every 100$ they gave out we got back 66$ in stock basically. Then that number was even cut when those stocks fell so in essence we pissed away 150+ Billion.

discuss.

[ISAtlanta300]

Uhm... Obama will fix it ? lol

[Vteckidd]

Last night John Stewart had chick on that's heading up the board monitoring the bailout $. She is an ex Harvard Financial Professor.

Bush Admin gave out the first 350 Billion to banks and told Americans it was an investment now numbers are showing that for every 100$ they gave out we got back 66$ in stock basically. Then that number was even cut when those stocks fell so in essence we pissed away 150+ Billion.

discuss.
Missed that interview i would like to see it.

I tend not to believe anything that comes from ULTRA LEFT WING Stewart and who is on his program.

But i have not seen the numbers.

FYI i dont think we should have given ANYONE the money, but its def not Bush fault. Theres this little thing called the House Financial Services Committee

WARNING Barney Frank WARNING

[Vteckidd]

http://financialservices.house.gov/FHA.html

http://www.house.gov/financialservices/TARP.html

Bush didnt pick who got the money, CONGRESS DID. And Frank talks about the lack of regulation that caused the problem, yet, we are still having the same problem.

he needs to be kicked in what little balls he has left

[BanginJimmy]

Nice to know that we have an incompetent in Frank and a tax cheating incompetent in Giethner taking care of the money.

[Paul]

http://financialservices.house.gov/FHA.html

http://www.house.gov/financialservices/TARP.html

Bush didnt pick who got the money, CONGRESS DID. And Frank talks about the lack of regulation that caused the problem, yet, we are still having the same problem.

he needs to be kicked in what little balls he has left

from what i understood first 350$ billion Bushes boy had full control of who it went too including giving bailouts to his previous company.

[Vteckidd]

from what i understood first 350$ billion Bushes boy had full control of who it went too including giving bailouts to his previous company.


Paulson was allowed to do what he saw fit but onlt with the approval of Congress

[Paul]

Paulson was allowed to do what he saw fit but onlt with the approval of Congress

but Paulson did have control of the money b/c congress gave him control - anything approved was done by the Paulson/team giving info to congress. This is much like the war from my perspective they have WMD lets invade; we have to give them 350 Billion :rolleyes:.

I think if Paulson knowingly came out originally and said we are giving 100$ for every 66$ in bad assests then it would of never gotten the OK.

[BanginJimmy]

but Paulson did have control of the money b/c congress gave him control - anything approved was done by the Paulson/team giving info to congress. This is much like the war from my perspective they have WMD lets invade; we have to give them 350 Billion :rolleyes:.


That would mean that those great american democrats that were elected in in 2006 had the exact same mindset as the idiots the republicans put in 2 years earlier.

[Paul]

That would mean that those great american democrats that were elected in in 2006 had the exact same mindset as the idiots the republicans put in 2 years earlier.

what they are all dumb enough to believe the shit Bushes Administration feeds them? trust me they are just as dumb, the thread is to point out the fact that we are just now unraveling effects of 1st stimulus.

[green91]

I think its silly to expect to get even a 100% return on this money. In fact, im surprised its even a 66% return. The dispersion of the money was done way to frivolously and to quickly without proper oversight. While i absolutely abhor government control, the money shouldn't have been thrown out as easily was it was without regulation or collateral guarantee.

[Vteckidd]

I think its silly to expect to get even a 100% return on this money. In fact, im surprised its even a 66% return. The dispersion of the money was done way to frivolously and to quickly without proper oversight. While i absolutely abhor government control, the money shouldn't have been thrown out as easily was it was without regulation or collateral guarantee.
But my question to paul is, WHOSE JOB IS IT TO REGULATE? The President or CONGRESS

THE ANSWER IS CONGRESS.

Hell Barney Frank said

“Of the problems that were created by the reckless deregulation that led to the subprime crisis and the neglect of affordable housing that has marked Republican rule in Congress, this package of measures is the best response we could make."

Ok asshat, you have been in power for over 2 years now, and there is problems with the SECOND HALF OF THE STIMULUS ALREADY.

So where is the regulation we are screaming for?

THEY DONT WANT IT GUYS, THEY WANT TO MILK THE COUNTRY DRY

[green91]

I think whatever agency has control of the spending has to be bipartisan, which would rule out the presidency. I would actually expect usage to be drafted by a source outside of congress but require congressional approval. I just dont think these guys take the roll seriously enough to conjure up a wise way to appropriate these funds.

[BanginJimmy]

There isnt anyone in the federal govt with the brains required to spend and regulate the money wisely. That is why they are in govt working for pennies on the dollar compared to their private sector counterparts.

[BanginJimmy]

what they are all dumb enough to believe the shit Bushes Administration feeds them? trust me they are just as dumb, the thread is to point out the fact that we are just now unraveling effects of 1st stimulus.

Bush administration didnt pass the bill. If they didnt like Bush's ideas for regulation they should have put it in there. Congressional democrats have no one to blame but themselves for the use of the bailout money.

[NAMNORI]

But you also have to remember alot of the problems started with "Slick Willy" in office. Look i'm not going to throw G.W. and Obama under the train alone but hell come on if they would have bothered to look they would have seen the problems sooner and maybe had a chance to fix the mess or atleast give Obama a chance to do so. No i don't like Obama (i have my reasons but race isn't one so don't go there.) But i love my country and hate to see us fail compeletly, but i don't see the light at the end of the tunnel like some of you do.

I think we are far from rock bottom amd things could and just might get worse. Our politicians have wasted our hard earned money for far too long and have taken bribs for even longer. I don't trust any of them to get it right hell they've fail so badly up until now. Do i think we can turn it around? I don't think so. Will this become a possible revolt, yes. Will we succeed? I don't know? It is honestly scary to me and some very close friends of mine, that we might have to fight our very own government to get control of what is supposed to be ours from the get go. WE THE PEOPLE!!!

[Paul]

Bush administration didnt pass the bill. If they didnt like Bush's ideas for regulation they should have put it in there. Congressional democrats have no one to blame but themselves for the use of the bailout money.

this isn't a dem/rep issue other than Paulson failed to deliver a good plan to distribute the funds. it is retarded to try to divert the fact Paulson fucked us on this deal.

example: I'm an IT guy and you are my GM. If I come to you and tell you hey this is my plan of action to accomplish this task... if you sign off on it are you to blame? No, you trust me to make the right decisions for the position I hold. If I fail I am to blame and can't say well you gave the OK. :rolleyes:

Of course congress should of asked for regulation on the funds but hindsight is 20/20 - they were making quick decisions to spend 700 Billion dollars b/c they HAD to. Was it the right choice NO. Obviously history should teach us that making Billion dollar decisions over night doesn't solve anything; it creates new problems. We gave away 350 Billion w/o any regulation/stipulations and now it has come to light it was a really bad idea.

Everyone is to blame left/right/between but I still think Bush/Paulson should of put steps in place to protect tax payers money.

[preferredduck]

Nice to know that we have an incompetent in Frank and a tax cheating incompetent in Giethner taking care of the money.

and they all learned to cheat on their taxes working for goldman sachs!!!! if us average folks owed $5000 in taxes our wages would get garneshed etc, but these guys are put in charge of the nations money. go figure.

[preferredduck]

from what i understood first 350$ billion Bushes boy had full control of who it went too including giving bailouts to his previous company.

henry "hank" paulson, who also has roots at goldman sachs. look into the connections, and you will see the $ went in the front door of AIG and out the back door to goldman sachs. there is still a pending lawsuit for the freedom of information act to see exactly who got what and where and what terms.

[preferredduck]

But my question to paul is, WHOSE JOB IS IT TO REGULATE? The President or CONGRESS

THE ANSWER IS CONGRESS.

Hell Barney Frank said

“Of the problems that were created by the reckless deregulation that led to the subprime crisis and the neglect of affordable housing that has marked Republican rule in Congress, this package of measures is the best response we could make."

Ok asshat, you have been in power for over 2 years now, and there is problems with the SECOND HALF OF THE STIMULUS ALREADY.

So where is the regulation we are screaming for?

THEY DONT WANT IT GUYS, THEY WANT TO MILK THE COUNTRY DRY

you mean bankrupt us. nooo never they would never do that. . . . most of the mess is caused by the federal reserve, interest rates, credit, pretty much all of it.

They should have done trickle up economics. if they sent a check to every tax paying american it would have been abt 100k, well there goes a lot of peoples credit card debt, car loans, new car sales, that would have put the economy into overdrive. nw 25% of the people would have squandered it away on BS but most of us would have boosted the economy big time and invested what was left in the markets, which would have spread around a lot of capital. but instead the CEO's got 20 million in pay and we get what $13 on our paychecks.

[preferredduck]

Bush administration didnt pass the bill. If they didnt like Bush's ideas for regulation they should have put it in there. Congressional democrats have no one to blame but themselves for the use of the bailout money.

Bush came ot seeral times asking for 700 FOR TROUbled sset, said the market wouls collapse, and other BS, i'll find the clip of him doing this several days in a row. Bush passed and pissed away the first stimulus bill, but he left 350B for obama.

[preferredduck]

But you also have to remember alot of the problems started with "Slick Willy" in office. Look i'm not going to throw G.W. and Obama under the train alone but hell come on if they would have bothered to look they would have seen the problems sooner and maybe had a chance to fix the mess or atleast give Obama a chance to do so. No i don't like Obama (i have my reasons but race isn't one so don't go there.) But i love my country and hate to see us fail compeletly, but i don't see the light at the end of the tunnel like some of you do.

I think we are far from rock bottom amd things could and just might get worse. Our politicians have wasted our hard earned money for far too long and have taken bribs for even longer. I don't trust any of them to get it right hell they've fail so badly up until now. Do i think we can turn it around? I don't think so. Will this become a possible revolt, yes. Will we succeed? I don't know? It is honestly scary to me and some very close friends of mine, that we might have to fight our very own government to get control of what is supposed to be ours from the get go. WE THE PEOPLE!!!

we have the right as PEOPLE to throw out congress, the president, and all officials if we see fit and e can get enough lazy ass people off the couch and educated. it's right there in our constitution, we don't have to fight for it, just show them who is boss by everybody not going to work and saying enough is enough ubtil we see real "change" not the BS change obama lied about. but if we wait too long and the north american union comes about(violence in mexico will help this process) then our constitution will be as useful as toilet paper.

[BanginJimmy]

this isn't a dem/rep issue other than Paulson failed to deliver a good plan to distribute the funds. it is retarded to try to divert the fact Paulson fucked us on this deal.

I agree that Paulson deserves a majority of the blame, but dems are trying to play this off as a Bush thing when it was the dems that failed to write in any kind of oversight.




Everyone is to blame left/right/between but I still think Bush/Paulson should of put steps in place to protect tax payers money.

Again, we are in agreement, but its not Bush Paulson, it is Congress/Paulson.

[Mike Lowrey]

this isn't a dem/rep issue other than Paulson failed to deliver a good plan to distribute the funds. it is retarded to try to divert the fact Paulson fucked us on this deal.

example: I'm an IT guy and you are my GM. If I come to you and tell you hey this is my plan of action to accomplish this task... if you sign off on it are you to blame? No, you trust me to make the right decisions for the position I hold. If I fail I am to blame and can't say well you gave the OK. :rolleyes:

Of course congress should of asked for regulation on the funds but hindsight is 20/20 - they were making quick decisions to spend 700 Billion dollars b/c they HAD to. Was it the right choice NO. Obviously history should teach us that making Billion dollar decisions over night doesn't solve anything; it creates new problems. We gave away 350 Billion w/o any regulation/stipulations and now it has come to light it was a really bad idea.

Everyone is to blame left/right/between but I still think Bush/Paulson should of put steps in place to protect tax payers money.

WTF?!

Paul, come on now. This is just stupid. By signing off on something you are taking some responsibility for it. It is the responsibility of your GM to review that plan of action and make sure he agrees and is behind it. He then signs it and give you the green light to implement. How is he washed of all responsibility at that point? That is not how things work. Sorry.

[Paul]

WTF?!

Paul, come on now. This is just stupid. By signing off on something you are taking some responsibility for it. It is the responsibility of your GM to review that plan of action and make sure he agrees and is behind it. He then signs it and give you the green light to implement. How is he washed of all responsibility at that point? That is not how things work. Sorry.

You can't be serious in your logic... Do you know what is required to be a congressman? Trust me most of these people can't run a business let alone our govts treasury dept - who do you expect someone like Pelosi w/ no major background in banks or what is needed to fix the situation understand what is the right thing to do?

You put too much stock in people to think that people in high positions understand the decisions they make. This is the problem w/ our gov to begin with congress makes decisions on shit they have no clue about. What should of been originally done w/ something like this is make a 3rd party panel to investigate the claims by Bush/Paulson/Banks and see if it was a venture we should take... not after the fact. :rolleyes:

You obviously don't head up a dept b/c any decision I make comes back to me even w/ upper mgmt signing off on it.... you think they understand 1/2 the shit I suggest - they want solutions.

[BanginJimmy]

You can't be serious in your logic... Do you know what is required to be a congressman? Trust me most of these people can't run a business let alone our govts treasury dept - who do you expect someone like Pelosi w/ no major background in banks or what is needed to fix the situation understand what is the right thing to do?

So how do you feel about someone that doesnt have the intelligence to use turbotax being the Sec. Tres and running the IRS?

[Paul]

So how do you feel about someone that doesnt have the intelligence to use turbotax being the Sec. Tres and running the IRS?

This is why I was blaming Bush b/c it is his administration... in the end the sinking ship is his fault. You have to have people in place that know what they are doing when we are talking 100s+ billions of American tax payers $$$. But I am not surprised the outcome this is what you get when you have someone in charge of giving money to his friends.

Not saying Giethner would of done any better... maybe its just me but before you tackle any major project you look at it from all angles; specially when we are talking about spending other peoples money.

[Mike Lowrey]

You can't be serious in your logic... Do you know what is required to be a congressman? Trust me most of these people can't run a business let alone our govts treasury dept - who do you expect someone like Pelosi w/ no major background in banks or what is needed to fix the situation understand what is the right thing to do?

You put too much stock in people to think that people in high positions understand the decisions they make. This is the problem w/ our gov to begin with congress makes decisions on shit they have no clue about. What should of been originally done w/ something like this is make a 3rd party panel to investigate the claims by Bush/Paulson/Banks and see if it was a venture we should take... not after the fact. :rolleyes:

You obviously don't head up a dept b/c any decision I make comes back to me even w/ upper mgmt signing off on it.... you think they understand 1/2 the shit I suggest - they want solutions.

LOL. They will not understand every little aspect, that is where their trust in your abilities comes in. The should understand enough to make an informed decision, as they are signing off on the project. If something were to go very wrong, the manager would be in hot water as well as the employee for the problems. The manager doesn't just turn his head and point his finger at the employee and say "I was his fault". They both "own" the project, its success and problems.

[BanginJimmy]

This is why I was blaming Bush b/c it is his administration... in the end the sinking ship is his fault.

We disagree here. This is still Bush's baby because it happened during his administration, but the sinking ship is not his fault. If anything an equal blame has to be put on Clinton as the legislation that was the basis for the housing bubble was wholly and completely his.




You have to have people in place that know what they are doing when we are talking 100s+ billions of American tax payers $$$. But I am not surprised the outcome this is what you get when you have someone in charge of giving money to his friends.

So where was the democrat congress that was calling for all that oversight? They wrote the bill in its entirety and the only concessions made were the extra pork that Reid added in to buy extra democrat votes in the House.


Not saying Giethner would of done any better... maybe its just me but before you tackle any major project you look at it from all angles; specially when we are talking about spending other peoples money.

You completely dodged my question though.

How do you feel about Giethner, who cant figure out turbotax, running the Treasury Dept. and therefore the IRS?

[Paul]

LOL. They will not understand every little aspect, that is where their trust in your abilities comes in. The should understand enough to make an informed decision, as they are signing off on the project. If something were to go very wrong, the manager would be in hot water as well as the employee for the problems. The manager doesn't just turn his head and point his finger at the employee and say "I was his fault". They both "own" the project, its success and problems.

You should know shit runs down hill - there is a reason why even businesses have dept managers/directors. You can't expect a CEO to run everything this is why you have CFO and accounting depts, Directory of IT and team, etc, etc

I would love to work for companies where I make a mistake I can point the finger to the guys that signed off on my decisions. :lmfao:

[Mike Lowrey]

You should know shit runs down hill - there is a reason why even businesses have dept managers/directors. You can't expect a CEO to run everything this is why you have CFO and accounting depts, Directory of IT and team, etc, etc

I would love to work for companies where I make a mistake I can point the finger to the guys that signed off on my decisions. :lmfao:

Well, I cannot help you if your reading impared. They share the responsibility. Is that clear enough?

[Paul]

We disagree here. This is still Bush's baby because it happened during his administration, but the sinking ship is not his fault. If anything an equal blame has to be put on Clinton as the legislation that was the basis for the housing bubble was wholly and completely his.
your misunderstanding my post "sinking ship" meaning if you appoint a cabinet of people to work and head up projects for you - you will take the blame in the end. legislation for home problem started long before Clinton; i believe the first "lets give everyone homes" started in the 70's



So where was the democrat congress that was calling for all that oversight? They wrote the bill in its entirety and the only concessions made were the extra pork that Reid added in to buy extra democrat votes in the House.
they didn't but again like i was saying you would of thought we would of learned not to follow bushes direction considering decisions made w/ the war, but they were dumb enough to take it hook-line-sinker. they are all to blame but i still think Paulson/Bush need to carry the load b/c Paulson should of been looking out for tax payers. Bush/Paulson kept refering to everything as investments when technically it was just giving money away to friends.



You completely dodged my question though.

How do you feel about Giethner, who cant figure out turbotax, running the Treasury Dept. and therefore the IRS?i don't know what you are refering to as in turbotax? what he can't operate software?

[BanginJimmy]

i don't know what you are refering to as in turbotax? what he can't operate software?



Geithner said he used the popular software program TurboTax to complete his income tax forms in those two years, and he failed to include self-employment taxes in his federal returns.

He said that, to his recollection, the program did not prompt him to report income and pay self-employment taxes.

"I mistakenly believed that I was meeting my obligations fully, including self-employment taxes, but I did not prepare my returns in a way that caught that mistake initially," Geithner told the committee, adding, "these are my responsibility, not the tax software responsibility."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/01/22/geithner-want-double-check-taxes/


He claims to have used Turbotax to do his taxes, yet he couldnt use it properly and he is supposed to be smart enough to administer 719B in pork money?

[Paul]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/01/22/geithner-want-double-check-taxes/


He claims to have used Turbotax to do his taxes, yet he couldnt use it properly and he is supposed to be smart enough to administer 719B in pork money?

FAIR and BALANCED :lmfao:

i knew about him not paying taxes on some income, but never heard about turbotax shit :rolleyes: - you got to be kidding? must be an excuse he used b/c who in their right mind making 300+k a year would use turbotax anyway.

[BanginJimmy]

FAIR and BALANCED :lmfao:

i knew about him not paying taxes on some income, but never heard about turbotax shit :rolleyes: - you got to be kidding? must be an excuse he used b/c who in their right mind making 300+k a year would use turbotax anyway.


FOX is about even with CNN and FAR better than MSNBC. I already heard about this from someone other than FOX and that was just the first link that had it.


So he lied to congress to get the seat. That is SO much better.

With that said, Obamabots have lost their right to play that Bush lied game.

[ShooterMcGavin]

who cares? chairman maobama will come up with a solution for us all :goodjob:

[BanginJimmy]

chairman maobama


I love that name

[NAMNORI]

we have the right as PEOPLE to throw out congress, the president, and all officials if we see fit and e can get enough lazy ass people off the couch and educated. it's right there in our constitution, we don't have to fight for it, just show them who is boss by everybody not going to work and saying enough is enough ubtil we see real "change" not the BS change obama lied about. but if we wait too long and the north american union comes about(violence in mexico will help this process) then our constitution will be as useful as toilet paper.

Sometimes fighting is the only way. Hopefully the voice of the people will do enough but it is hard to believe that the voice of "the average american" will be enough to make that "change".

[Paul]

FOX is about even with CNN and FAR better than MSNBC. I already heard about this from someone other than FOX and that was just the first link that had it.


So he lied to congress to get the seat. That is SO much better.

With that said, Obamabots have lost their right to play that Bush lied game.

it is retarded to think politicians don't lie :rolleyes:

they all lie, cheat, steal, ... if we wanted truth we would just have a dictator and what he says goes - there is not a need to lie when you are supreme leader.

[BanginJimmy]

it is retarded to think politicians don't lie :rolleyes:

they all lie, cheat, steal, ... if we wanted truth we would just have a dictator and what he says goes - there is not a need to lie when you are supreme leader.


So you are OK with having a tax cheat running the IRS? This is what is wrong with the party system. If McCain won the election and nominated Giethner to that post the dems would have been up in arms about it. Because it was Obama, its ok because everyone lies.

[NAMNORI]

So you are OK with having a tax cheat running the IRS? This is what is wrong with the party system. If McCain won the election and nominated Giethner to that post the dems would have been up in arms about it. Because it was Obama, its ok because everyone lies.


And that's the problem, if you don't go with the Obama administration or his ideals you are either racist a terrorist or both. Just remember this all goes both ways for most left/right wing people. I think the haze is starting to lift with some of the people who voted for Obama and they are realizing that they made a BIG mistake. No this is not all his fault and yes we've been headed down this road for a while, but remember we might not have hit rock bottom yet. For eveyone who is sitting at home watching cnn you should have seen thier extremist pov with the way they covered the tea party on wed night. they are Obama's puppets and they will be the government run news agency soon enough.
For the rest of us who can use our brains fully you have to take a little from here and a little from there and LOOK for the truth. Maybe that's too much to ask. Do i watch Fox news? yes. do i watch cnn? not after they showed thier asses wed and probably not again. Sorry but i want the news and not some dumb bitches personal view, that's not what i consider news you job is to interview people not be Obama's little attack dog! Did i find the "hitlerobama" funny? Fuck yeah i did. It was fitting for the event. Should that gentleman had more politicians dressed like that? Oh hell yeah, even the rest of the fuckers up there should be dressed like that.:2cents: :rant:

[Paul]

So you are OK with having a tax cheat running the IRS? This is what is wrong with the party system. If McCain won the election and nominated Giethner to that post the dems would have been up in arms about it. Because it was Obama, its ok because everyone lies.

they are all crooks the position is to find who is the least bit crooked... ok so you are pissed he didn't pay some taxes yet you are ok w/ a guy giving money to his friends :rolleyes:

it goes both ways there is not perfect candidate in this world and if there was he would never win b/c America is too stupid to elect them. RON PAUL :bump:!

[BanginJimmy]

they are all crooks the position is to find who is the least bit crooked... ok so you are pissed he didn't pay some taxes yet you are ok w/ a guy giving money to his friends :rolleyes:

He didnt pay them, then he lied about it to congress. If they were confirming him for say Health and Human Services, I wouldnt be all that worried about it, but this is the guy thats supposed to be running the IRS.


it goes both ways there is not perfect candidate in this world and if there was he would never win b/c America is too stupid to elect them. RON PAUL :bump:!


I agree with Ron Paul. He got my vote back in November.

[NAMNORI]

well that makes three ia votes for him. I wish we could get a mulligan on the presidential election!