Intelligent design in school?

[4dmin]

in a couple school districts in PA they starting teaching intelligent design over evolution... what do you think?

[AWD OWNZ U]

Psudeo-science has no place in a classroom.

[Jaimecbr900]

I saw an article about this very subject in Time magazine a couple of months back.

They raised almost the same identical points we all did in our Bible debates....proof vs not proof.....logic vs faith.....

To be honest, most school debates end up boiling down to one thing.....political correctness. I am a diehard opponent of the idea, so to me it's counter productive. The separation of church and state was not intended to make people stupid.

How come one sect of the population has to be able to "deal with" the teaching of something they don't agree with, but then when any little thing is mentioned or even now-a-days UTTERED that remotely has to do with "religion" people freak out and start reciting from the Constitution????? Why is it OK to teach one and not the other? Political correctness is why.

[AWD OWNZ U]

How come one sect of the population has to be able to "deal with" the teaching of something they don't agree with, but then when any little thing is mentioned or even now-a-days UTTERED that remotely has to do with "religion" people freak out and start reciting from the Constitution????? Why is it OK to teach one and not the other? Political correctness is why.

Because one is SCIENCE and is NOT. Evolution is proven, you might not accept it but that's the way it goes. Intelligent Design is not testable and cannot be proven one way or the other, even if it were true I.D. is not science and therefore has no place is a science class.

[4dmin]

i don't think it has a place in science class, but i think think that kids should be allowed to take WORLD religion/philosophy, not just christianity but all religions, so they get a taste of what is out there.

[AWD OWNZ U]

i don't think it has a place in science class, but i think think that kids should be allowed to take WORLD religion/philosophy, not just christianity but all religions, so they get a taste of what is out there.

I think they should take a logic class and then a religion/philosphy class. Gotta be in the right mindset. :) I honestly think if we had those two classes we'd be better off as a society.

[4dmin]

+10 ^ tru dat

[Jaimecbr900]

Because one is SCIENCE and is NOT. Evolution is proven, you might not accept it but that's the way it goes. Intelligent Design is not testable and cannot be proven one way or the other, even if it were true I.D. is not science and therefore has no place is a science class.

There have been many "proofs" presented throughout the ages in history about Christianity too. People like you may not accept that either. Science is largely based on theory at it's core. Many many "Science" concepts have evolved and totally changed throughout just our lifetime, let alone history. So, why is it that suddenly it's the only way to measure things? If it were, don't you think it would never change?

Yes, Science is largely accurate about lots of things. But it is also proved itself wrong or misinformed many times too. So who's to say that I.D. is any different? Why not present it to the students and let THEM decide which one makes more sense to them?

50 yrs ago, "Science" said Cancer couldn't be conquered. Is that the same viewpoint today? That's just in 50 years.....How about in 2000 years? Why is it that because of political correctness people can't express themselves in a way they choose to? You now are having debates about taking out WORDS out of HISTORICAL documents and pledges because of the stupidity of political correctness. How's that for pidgeon holing our future leaders?

The separation of church and state in our Constitution was not intended to make pagans out of everyone. It was meant to not let one run over the other. It seems to me that the "state" part has gotten wayyyyy over the center line already. Why is there no bitching about that?????

[Jaimecbr900]

I think they should take a logic class and then a religion/philosphy class. Gotta be in the right mindset. :) I honestly think if we had those two classes we'd be better off as a society.


I actually agree with that. Logic and ideology are very good attributes.

Good points.

[AWD OWNZ U]

Yes, Science is largely accurate about lots of things. But it is also proved itself wrong or misinformed many times too. So who's to say that I.D. is any different?

You just answered your entire question right there. Science works because it innately has an error correcting mechanism. Science is not science if it does not have the possiblity of at some point being proven false. I see so many Christians pointing to the former misinformation of Science as proof not to trust it, when in fact that's the beauty of it. Science actively tries to prove itself wrong to get at a better resolution of truth.

Look at it another way, if we include Divine intervention as a cause for something then there would be no true sciences. We could dismiss interactions as God's work. Science is not a religion is does not teach truths, it's a mechanism to understand how the world works. Science class are not there to teach students what's true and what's not, they are there to teach them how to perform science. Like it or not Evolution is the basis of modern biology and must be known if you are too understand how it works. Intelligent Design adds nothing to the curriculum.

[Jaimecbr900]

You just answered your entire question right there. Science works because it innately has an error correcting mechanism. Science is not science if it does not have the possiblity of at some point being proven false. I see so many Christians pointing to the former misinformation of Science as proof not to trust it, when in fact that's the beauty of it. Science actively tries to prove itself wrong to get at a better resolution of truth.

Very good point, but how come part of that "resolution of truth" can't include divine intervention as a possible answer?



Look at it another way, if we include Divine intervention as a cause for something then there would be no true sciences. We could dismiss interactions as God's work. Science is not a religion is does not teach truths, it's a mechanism to understand how the world works. Science class are not there to teach students what's true and what's not, they are there to teach them how to perform science. Like it or not Evolution is the basis of modern biology and must be known if you are too understand how it works. Intelligent Design adds nothing to the curriculum.


Again, a very good point. Divinity is pretty black and white. It wouldn't leave much room for it to evolve itself. Although, if that I.D. being taught can be taught using not only one religious point of view but many. The only common denominator the majority of religions have is a Supreme being.


I don't know. I've got to admit that you've got me to thinking.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Science is Science and I.D. is more Phylosophy. The only thing is that Evolution is taught as part of Science though. So in order to counter balance it, I.D. would have to be taught in a Science curriculum. Hmmmmm.... :thinking:

[AWD OWNZ U]

Very good point, but how come part of that "resolution of truth" can't include divine intervention as a possible answer?

Because it's not a scientific principle, divine intervention is not in the realm of science.


Again, a very good point. Divinity is pretty black and white. It wouldn't leave much room for it to evolve itself. Although, if that I.D. being taught can be taught using not only one religious point of view but many. The only common denominator the majority of religions have is a Supreme being.

It's not really an issue of religion. If they are advancing I.D. as a scientific theory, then it needs to be held to scientific standards. Here's how dictionary.com defines science in this context...


The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Now was I.D. arrived at through observation? Can there be an experimental investigation? The answer of course is no. God is simply not a scientifically valid answer for why things happen, regardless of it's truth. I realize that might be hard to accept on it's face, but if you think about it you'll probably see why.


I don't know. I've got to admit that you've got me to thinking.

Good. :)


Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Science is Science and I.D. is more Phylosophy. The only thing is that Evolution is taught as part of Science though. So in order to counter balance it, I.D. would have to be taught in a Science curriculum. Hmmmmm.... :thinking:

Evolution is science, arrived at through observation and experimentation. It's been open to scientific debate and passed muster to become accepted. I.D. can make none of those claims.

[Jaimecbr900]

You make very valid points.

Like I said, it's made me re-think my position. I think selfishly I was thinking that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander, but I think you have a valid point.

Although there are lots of scientific variables and equations yet to be able to be solved by conventional means. In other words, couldn't it be asserted that sometimes certain things can also be explained by "divine intervention"?

[AWD OWNZ U]

Although there are lots of scientific variables and equations yet to be able to be solved by conventional means. In other words, couldn't it be asserted that sometimes certain things can also be explained by "divine intervention"?

How would you go about it? When is something dumped from scientifically provable to divine intervention? Let's take the motion of the planets for example. For a while it was believed that the stars were controlled by God (or Gods) and that was that. If we had accepted that and not probed further, we'd have never understand orbital mechanics. Proposing divine intervention does not open up new paths ways, it just discourages you from looking further.

The ID people basically just say life is so complicated, there must be some being that created it. So what if we don't understand something, God did it? You know how horribly that mindset would retard scientific progress. The worse that happens if it was divine intervention is we hit a dead end. If it's not and we write it off we have just closed ourselves off to an entire realm of understanding.

[green91]

Another great debate. I personally believe that philosophy should be offered in public schools.. and compare the sides between intelligent design and evolution. If anything, these sorts of debates create an intellectual stimulus people can relate to.. some people cant relate to math or history but can become involved in these topics

I believe that most people just ride the wave of what they were brought up to believe, without deciding on their own what they believe and this has created a rather nieve country and narrowminded outlook.

[AWD OWNZ U]

Another great debate. I personally believe that philosophy should be offered in public schools.. and compare the sides between intelligent design and evolution. If anything, these sorts of debates create an intellectual stimulus people can relate to.. some people cant relate to math or history but can become involved in these topics

I believe that most people just ride the wave of what they were brought up to believe, without deciding on their own what they believe and this has created a rather nieve country and narrowminded outlook.

I have no problem with intelligent design being in school, it just has no place in SCIENCE class. Like I said before a philosophy/religion class would be wonderful thing if you ask me. There would be endless debate on what to cover and how in depth though.

[green91]

I think its important to consider that just because a theory or idea is not provable today, doesnt mean it cannot be scientifically solved in future. Divine intervention has typically been thrown at questions outside the realm of current science or method. Some questions are simply not answerable: is there a god.

[green91]

I have no problem with intelligent design being in school, it just has no place in SCIENCE class. Like I said before a philosophy/religion class would be wonderful thing if you ask me. There would be endless debate on what to cover and how in depth though.

i agree with you completely on that

[Jaimecbr900]

The ID people basically just say life is so complicated, there must be some being that created it. So what if we don't understand something, God did it? You know how horribly that mindset would retard scientific progress. The worse that happens if it was divine intervention is we hit a dead end. If it's not and we write it off we have just closed ourselves off to an entire realm of understanding.

Try as I might normally otherwise, I have to agree with 99.9% of your thought process on this subject. ;)

Although, you have to admit that there are things that neither Science nor Nature has been able to logically explain just yet and may never.

I do agree that there should be deep phylosophy classes that stimulate debates like this forum in schools. Heated and passionate, but thought provoking. It would certainly make for a better world.

[green91]

history has shown that at the time many things arent provable via modern science but are possible in the future to be proven, IE universe. what makes it interesting is if you consider how unknowing we were 50 yrs ago... how unknowing is what we are doing now going to seem 50 years from now? :)

[AWD OWNZ U]

Try as I might normally otherwise, I have to agree with 99.9% of your thought process on this subject. ;)

:)


Although, you have to admit that there are things that neither Science nor Nature has been able to logically explain just yet and may never.

Oh absolutely, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying.


I do agree that there should be deep phylosophy classes that stimulate debates like this forum in schools. Heated and passionate, but thought provoking. It would certainly make for a better world.

Ya but if our schools turn out intelligent thinking individuals, who will be around to mess up my order at McDonalds?

[Jaimecbr900]

Ya but if our schools turn out intelligent thinking individuals, who will be around to mess up my order at McDonalds?



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