Piracy

[BanginJimmy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy


Somali pirates take 20 Americans as hostages. How much longer til we start seeing some of these contracting companies stationing their men on ships traveling in that area?

The US govt needs to come down VERY had on these people, to the point of possibly scaring off more of these types of men.

[SL65AMG]

they need to do some serious somali ass-kicking. like a punk on the playground, just needs an ass whoopin

[NAMNORI]

Well the ships crew decided to do it themselves and they are now free. But in all fairness we need to come down on them like a fucking plague.

[hondachik]

Somalians can afford satellite phones and GPS equipment?

[BanginJimmy]

They can when these shipping companies are paying out multi million dollar ransoms

[NAMNORI]

btw oops on my post i heard on the radio like five minutes later they still had and still do have the captain hostage.

[Frög]

Read that earlier today.. Good shit..

[NAMNORI]

yeah big oops on my part oh well

[BanginJimmy]

warships are heading that way and by now I would bet that those ships have some SEALS aboard.

[NAMNORI]

Hell yeah ha i don't care who you arrghhhhhhhh, if you were a pirate right now and knew this info you'd be shitting yourself

[preferredduck]

i say on piracy the ships need to be allowed to have some protection, even a trained "maritime" personnel or two on the boat with heavy guns and an RPG, or rocket launcher to take out a lil speed boat, but i wouldn't publicize it, just do it and i bet the pirates would go away then!!!!

[Total_Blender]

All sorts of international laws come into effect when you have armed merchant ships entering ports. Not to mention if the ships were armed if pirates were successful in seizing the ships then they would then have the ships weaponry at their control. Most countries are weary of the possibility of pirates Seizing an armed ship in one of their ports.

From the articles I have read in shipping journals, the shipping industry is also generally opposed to arming their ships, as expecting their crews to fight off pirates is just too much liability.

[B18c1Turboed]

All sorts of international laws come into effect when you have armed merchant ships entering ports. Not to mention if the ships were armed if pirates were successful in seizing the ships then they would then have the ships weaponry at their control. Most countries are weary of the possibility of pirates Seizing an armed ship in one of their ports.

From the articles I have read in shipping journals, the shipping industry is also generally opposed to arming their ships, as expecting their crews to fight off pirates is just too much liability.


they got 10 million for this ship!!
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2008/s2377212.htm

[B18c1Turboed]

http://lh3.google.com/haymansbeard/RrFjHaI8ajI/AAAAAAAAAHw/BxkFw7Wne2o/Jack%20Sparrow%20Large.jpg

Somali women flocking to port in hope of marrying pirates (http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/09/somali-women-flocking-to-ports-in-hope-of-marrying-pirates/)
Posted: 11:14 AM ET
Former Navy SEAL Kaj Larsen decribes the dificulties in combating pirates off the Somali coast.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif
Pirates are holding a U.S. captain hostage at sea. The Navy is watching everything that happens. So what is supposed to happen next? And what is driving this problem? We talked to someone who knows a thing or two about the pirates and has experience covering them in Somalia. Kaj Larsen, former U.S. Navy SEAL, spoke to T.J. Holmes on CNN’s American Morning Thursday.

Larsen says the root conditions of poverty, lawlessness and civil war on the ground in Somalia are to blame. The large sums of ransom money being paid out to pirates, he says, is even leading some Somali women to venture to the port town of Bosaso in hopes of marrying these newly-rich men.

T.J. Holmes: We know that piracy pays. What is it that’s going to break this cycle if every time they take a ship, they get paid. Why stop it?

Kaj Larsen: That’s the 50 or $100 million question, which is about the money that the pirates took in last year in ransom. The solution unfortunately is not going to be a military-centric one. Ultimately, you to have to find some way to govern this ungoverned space, this lawless sanctuary that the pirates have in Somalia. That’s really the only long-term solution you’re going to see to this problem.



Holmes: Let’s start with the military solution. Why not send a message?

Larsen: Certainly there would be some deterrent effect. I think in this case, the incentives are so large. The money that they’re making is so extraordinary, especially by Somalia standards, that it would be difficult. However, in this particular situation, the goal is to solve it as quickly and as safely as possible without putting the hostage in jeopardy.

Holmes: There are hopeless, deplorable conditions in Somalia. A life of piracy looks pretty good for some of these young men compared to the conditions in Somalia.

Larsen: You couldn’t have said it better, T.J. I’ve been on the ground in Somalia. One of the interesting demographic things that’s happening right now is that single Somali women are flocking to the port town Bosaso where these pirates come out of in the hopes of marrying a pirate. So you can see that it really is — the root conditions of poverty, lawlessness and civil war on the ground in Somalia are really what are breeding this problem.

Holmes: Is it worth the risk for these companies to continue to go through the Gulf of Aden? Does it cost much to take another route? Is it worth it to take the chance, pay the ransom, and keep moving?

Larsen: So far, that’s been the model. As these attacks increase, we’ve seen six in the last week alone, the cost of doing business in that area is just going to be too high. The insurance companies are going to jack up the rates of insurance. And at some point, they’re not going to be able to continue without taking much more serious security measures or without finding an alternative route.

Holmes: Do you think this situation will begin to draw more attention to what’s happening there off the Horn of Africa and maybe more action will begin to be taken by countries all over the world?

Larsen: I think this is a clarion call to the international community that Somalia is and continues to be a failed state. And that if we don’t continue to pay attention to it, if we don’t start changing the conditions on the ground there, if we don’t start governing that ungoverned space that it’s going to be a breeding ground for piracy and possibly international terrorism. So yes, I would hope that this situation, that the silver lining in the cloud is that people would start paying attention to this horrific situation in the country there.

[BanginJimmy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_af/piracy


He tried to get free but our commander in chief has successfully neutered our military. There is no reason a team of SEALS could not drop in on these men in the middle of the night and place a couple well placed rounds in their head and leisurely steer the lifeboat back to the destroyer.

[preferredduck]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_af/piracy


He tried to get free but our commander in chief has successfully neutered our military. There is no reason a team of SEALS could not drop in on these men in the middle of the night and place a couple well placed rounds in their head and leisurely steer the lifeboat back to the destroyer.

i'm with you on that, but you know policy tries to make it peaceful, but france ended a pirate hostage situation today and one of the hostages died. the pirates are suppocively sending help but i wouldn't want to try to face a destroyer or two.

[Alan®]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_af/piracy


He tried to get free but our commander in chief has successfully neutered our military. There is no reason a team of SEALS could not drop in on these men in the middle of the night and place a couple well placed rounds in their head and leisurely steer the lifeboat back to the destroyer.
Agreed. The Navy is sitting there just watching this guy and when he jumped ship there should have been guys on stand by on the deck ready to take these bastards out. I've been saying this for years. But we are witnessing the wussification of America. The public school system is teaching our kids at an early age that if you are attacked to just allow them to attack you and eventually someone will come and break up the fight. Whats gonna happen when the entire country is trained to do the same thing and no one is there to fuckin help them. It's ridiculous.

[BanginJimmy]

One of the boats we have there is the USS Boxer, which carriers a bunch of Marine aboard.

[NAMNORI]

http://lh3.google.com/haymansbeard/RrFjHaI8ajI/AAAAAAAAAHw/BxkFw7Wne2o/Jack%20Sparrow%20Large.jpg



why is the rum always gone?????

[BanginJimmy]

Obama finally got off his ass and let the military do its job. Even though this worked out well, I think it highlights the fact that shipping companies need to be allowed to hire private security to protect the ships, crew and the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cargo they carry.

[HyPer50]

Obama finally got off his ass and let the military do its job. Even though this worked out well, I think it highlights the fact that shipping companies need to be allowed to hire private security to protect the ships, crew and the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cargo they carry.

I'm not familiar with the rules... But are they not allowed ot have there own personal security? I see no reason why there would be laws forbidding them from having there own armed guards on the ship.

[BanginJimmy]

According to national laws and some international laws, armed ships are considered warships. The same holds true for armed men aboard ships. Some shipping companies do use armed security on their boats, but they get them off the boats before they enter any country's territorial waters.

[.blank cd]

There are politics involved with something like this. You cant just jump in right off the back and start shooting, gotta have a plan. Obama weighed his options, went with a plan, and executed it. Those pirates werent gonna kill that man right off. If they really wanted to kill him, he woulda been dead 4 days ago

[BanginJimmy]

This should have been over with 4 days ago. They need to treat these people like the criminals they are. Give them a chance to surrender, if they dont, kill them and let the bodies rot in the lifeboat.

What option other than killing them is there? They arent going to surrender, that was obvious from day 1.

[SL65AMG]

I'm not familiar with the rules... But are they not allowed ot have there own personal security? I see no reason why there would be laws forbidding them from having there own armed guards on the ship.


its a problem with the insurance companies, im sure those guys would be glad to have a few weapons on board.

[.blank cd]

If the marines woulda went in 4 days ago, everyone woulda died. Primary objective is to preserve life. Intel, recon, getting the seals out there takes time.

[BanginJimmy]

SEALS were already there. The Objective is to preserve INNOCENT life, who gives a shit about the aggressors?



It would have been very easy for 4 SEALS to SCUBA to the boat in the middle of the night and end this with about 8-12 shot fired. There would have been no danger to the innocent Captain on the lifeboat.

[hondachik]

Agreed. The Navy is sitting there just watching this guy and when he jumped ship there should have been guys on stand by on the deck ready to take these bastards out. I've been saying this for years. But we are witnessing the wussification of America. The public school system is teaching our kids at an early age that if you are attacked to just allow them to attack you and eventually someone will come and break up the fight. Whats gonna happen when the entire country is trained to do the same thing and no one is there to fuckin help them. It's ridiculous.


I miss when we were gangster in our World War II days. The Japs haven't fucked with us since.

[BanginJimmy]

I miss when we were gangster in our World War II days. The Japs haven't fucked with us since.



Our once mighty country has been infected by the plague of political correctness. We can no longer use our hard fought might for the good of our country or the good of American citizens. We must first consider if we will hurt anyone's feelings first.

[.blank cd]

SEALS were already there. The Objective is to preserve INNOCENT life, who gives a shit about the aggressors

It would have been very easy for 4 SEALS to SCUBA to the boat in the middle of the night and end this with about 8-12 shot fired. There would have been no danger to the innocent Captain on the lifeboat.Of course it would, at the right time. You dont think the pirates were expecting an attack on day one? I would be. Thats why they tried to talk them down and get them in a position where they thought they had the upper hand, then surprise attack. I wouldnt have done this any differently.

And the objective is to preserve ALL life if possible. How do we learn anything from a dead enemy? Same reason why we didnt pop Saddam a couple times when we caught him in that fox hole. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[hondachik]

Our once mighty country has been infected by the plague of political correctness. We can no longer use our hard fought might for the good of our country or the good of American citizens. We must first consider if we will hurt anyone's feelings first.


Fuck feelings. Isn't that what people in relationships nowadays say? I mean, shit, u eventually get over it. Hell with how many innocent people we killed in Iraq, we should have just sent a nuclear bomb over there and saved a few American lives by not sending our troops...shit.

[BanginJimmy]

Hell with how many innocent people we killed in Iraq,

I would guess significantly fewer than Saddam killed in any 6 year period. Also significantly fewer than local insurgents killed.

[hondachik]

I would guess significantly fewer than Saddam killed in any 6 year period. Also significantly fewer than local insurgents killed.


Exactly. Would have saved time, money, lives, and ol Dubya looking like an asshole in front of the whole country. :goodjob:

[eraser4g63]

We are and have been the laughing stock of the world community for some time now. Words are great to fix some problems but how many slaps on the wrist do the people who are aggressive towards America(ns) get before we act? I know the whole speak softly and carry a big stick doctrine but when the hell can we use that big stick?

[NAMNORI]

never it's been sitting there collecting dust, and we're waiting for "the right time", which will be too late by the time we use it!

[eraser4g63]

I guess as always good intention are not worth shit.

[preferredduck]

ok the captain has now been saved by the navy, 3 pirated were shot and a fourth surrendered. and other pirated are outraged that we killed three of them though they wanted to kill an american citizen. this area of the world might get interesting. we have bigger boats than then too.

[BanginJimmy]

Exactly. Would have saved time, money, lives, and ol Dubya looking like an asshole in front of the whole country. :goodjob:

He only looked like an asshole to the same people who would say he looked like an asshole no matter what he did.

[BanginJimmy]

We are and have been the laughing stock of the world community for some time now.

We have only been a laughing stock since 2006. Before that, other countries actually listened to what we said.



Words are great to fix some problems but how many slaps on the wrist do the people who are aggressive towards America(ns) get before we act? I know the whole speak softly and carry a big stick doctrine but when the hell can we use that big stick?

Get used to it, Bush's last 2 years and now Obama's congress means they wont do anything. Hell, look how long it took to make a decision with only 5 lives at stake, what do you think he will do when its 5000 lives.

[EJ25RUN]

There are politics involved with something like this. You cant just jump in right off the back and start shooting, gotta have a plan. Obama weighed his options, went with a plan, and executed it. Those pirates werent gonna kill that man right off. If they really wanted to kill him, he woulda been dead 4 days ago

Do us a favor and never let yourself take control of a hostage situation.....PLEASE.

[Paul]

this has been a problem for quite some time around africa and asian many ships are taking longer routes around to keep from being attacked; this in return cost consumers like us. my company does tons of import/export business and you have to factor in these type of things when you get into international business.

the problem is the international community hasn't taken a strong enough stance on this shit and has let it go on for too long. they should use those unmanned aircraft like reapers off the cost of of Africa to search and destroy vessels at the cost of the international community. this is just another scenario where world leaders turn a blind eye and wait for americans to step in and clean it up.

[BanginJimmy]

the problem is the international community hasn't taken a strong enough stance on this shit and has let it go on for too long. they should use those unmanned aircraft like reapers off the cost of of Africa to search and destroy vessels at the cost of the international community. this is just another scenario where world leaders turn a blind eye and wait for americans to step in and clean it up.

How mighty Republican of you. And I agree 100%.

[Paul]

How mighty Republican of you. And I agree 100%.

I have a seek & destroy attitude to threats towards American citizens... I think either we go 100% or none at all. Shit like this pisses me off b/c we are great at prancing around the issues if we aren't doing that we like to stick our nose where it doesn't belong.

[Frög]

ok the captain has now been saved by the navy, 3 pirated were shot and a fourth surrendered. and other pirated are outraged that we killed three of them though they wanted to kill an american citizen. this area of the world might get interesting. we have bigger boats than then too.


warships are heading that way and by now I would bet that those ships have some SEALS aboard.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_re_af/piracy_raised_stakes


:bump:

AMERICA FUCK YEAH

Bring it:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_re_af/piracy

[BanginJimmy]

Those SEALS are some bad asses, but I wonder if SEALS were the Snipers or were they Marine Scout Snipers? I'm not even sure if SEALS have dedicated snipers.

[JITB]

The whole pirate thing isnt as simple as it may seem. From somalias point of view they are protecting their land. Companies have been stealing their resources for years and years without any agreement on profit or sharing anything. just taking and taking, and dumping wastes on their land, and waters. And nothing gets done.. so some of them decided to start doing this to keep the ships out of their waters, just to protect themselves. This was a real big issue back in 08..and i heard about it, but didnt pay any attention. but somehow this story came to light...lol i guess they were bored at CNN or something.

I dont say its right, but there is more to this story..it even goes deeper thru the puntland government, that gets a piece of the ransom. but there isnt a steady government in somalia..so you have private companies that just take advantage of this and do what they want over there, ruined their resources. It started as this, but it has grown to be outrageous..and there are so many pirates out their, and are said to be unstoppable. They have never been known to kill the captains either or the crew.. just want ransom and keep it moving. Thats why the companies have been paying them off.

[BanginJimmy]

The whole pirate thing isnt as simple as it may seem. From somalias point of view they are protecting their land. Companies have been stealing their resources for years and years without any agreement on profit or sharing anything. just taking and taking, and dumping wastes on their land, and waters. And nothing gets done.. so some of them decided to start doing this to keep the ships out of their waters, just to protect themselves. This was a real big issue back in 08..and i heard about it, but didnt pay any attention. but somehow this story came to light...lol i guess they were bored at CNN or something.

I dont say its right, but there is more to this story..it even goes deeper thru the puntland government, that gets a piece of the ransom. but there isnt a steady government in somalia..so you have private companies that just take advantage of this and do what they want over there, ruined their resources. It started as this, but it has grown to be outrageous..and there are so many pirates out their, and are said to be unstoppable. They have never been known to kill the captains either or the crew.. just want ransom and keep it moving. Thats why the companies have been paying them off.

Thats is all fine and good, but still doesnt mean shit to me. Maersk is now saying they are considering armed security on their boats in that region. I hope they go through with it and I hope more companies do the same. On top of that I hope that our govt forces the UN to take a very hard stance on this.

[Paul]

Thats is all fine and good, but still doesnt mean shit to me. Maersk is now saying they are considering armed security on their boats in that region. I hope they go through with it and I hope more companies do the same. On top of that I hope that our govt forces the UN to take a very hard stance on this.

couple of RPGs and put two privatized military guys on each vessel :lmfao:

[BanginJimmy]

couple of RPGs and put two privatized military guys on each vessel :lmfao:


That would work for me. Its not like its hard to get an RPG in Africa. Hell, maybe I will volunteer for a few months of the work. Figure that if Mearsk and a few other companies pool resources they could have continuous coverage on their ships for FAR less than they are paying to pirates. I was thinking a 5 man team on each ship and helicopter support to fly them between the ships as they pass through the most dangerous areas.

[leobond001]

Damn what ever happened to talking. i'm sure if the U.N. sat down and talked with the leaders of the pirate's something can get accomplished.

[Paul]

Damn what ever happened to talking. i'm sure if the U.N. sat down and talked with the leaders of the pirate's something can get accomplished.

talks take too long and are pointless - this is like talking to terrorist - it isn't like we are going to war w/ a country; act now and answer questions later :goodjob:

[Alan®]

And the objective is to preserve ALL life if possible.
And that's the problem. We execute criminals everyday in this country. Those guys are terrorists. Nothing more nothing less. And with that said we kill even more terrorists on a daily basis than we do criminals so who cares if they live.

[BanginJimmy]

Damn what ever happened to talking. i'm sure if the U.N. sat down and talked with the leaders of the pirate's something can get accomplished.


This has to be a joke. I bet you cant think of a single thing that the UN has accomplished in the last 10 years that the US did not make happen with use of its military. They havent even been able to figure out where their own meny went during oil for food.

[JITB]

Thats is all fine and good, but still doesnt mean shit to me. Maersk is now saying they are considering armed security on their boats in that region. I hope they go through with it and I hope more companies do the same. On top of that I hope that our govt forces the UN to take a very hard stance on this.


its not right.. but thats where it comes from.. So its not just as simple as lets go kill em all.. it wont happen. its not gonna happen. seals have been goin after them for years, since early 90's. Once this blows over it will back to usual over there. I mean if we had eastern cities coming to the gulf of mexico and mining our oil/draining out seas of sealife, without us taxing it would be a big problem.

its not just kill em all, and the problem will be solved. You stop the base of the conflict, and go from there. There is no way..i mean NO WAY, that this problem will be solved how its going about. promise!

Im not saying either side is right or wrong, but... to me the way its being handled now isnt gonna fix anything. This type of abuse to a coastal city would not be tolerated on any other place with any type of proper government in place.

[BanginJimmy]

Whose fault is it that they dont have a govt? Ours? Nothing is going to solve that problem short of complete extermination of those that are committing the crimes. That or making it un-profitable for them to risk it. Coddling them, and telling them its not their fault will only make the problem worse.

[.blank cd]

And that's the problem. We execute criminals everyday in this country. Those guys are terrorists. Nothing more nothing less. And with that said we kill even more terrorists on a daily basis than we do criminals so who cares if they live.LOL. That's a totally different situation there. Criminals we execute here have already committed a capital offense, tried and convicted and sentanced. This is self defense, or defense of another in imminent danger. That's why 3 of them are dead. Same kinda thing that happens here when bad guys take hostages. That's why we have hostage negotiation teams. Only difference is that it wasn't on US soil. That's why we sent the military. And yes the seals have a dedicated sniper team too

[JITB]

Whose fault is it that they dont have a govt? Ours? Nothing is going to solve that problem short of complete extermination of those that are committing the crimes. That or making it un-profitable for them to risk it. Coddling them, and telling them its not their fault will only make the problem worse.


No fault, im not faulting anyone. exterminating all of them isnt even an option. ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! kill kill kill, isnt the solution to everything. It started as people playin robin hood protecting their own land. But it has blew up into a job in somalia. When you have people coming in and taking the only resource that yields any sort of income for the area, its gonna keep happening.

[BanginJimmy]

THE SHIPS THEY ARE ATTACKING ARENT TAKING ANYTHING FROM SOMOLIA THOUGH, THEY ARE SIMPLY TRANSITING THE GULF OF ADEN. THIS IS NOT A ROBIN HOOD SENERIO, THIS IS A CASE OF MERITIME CRIMINALS THAT FOUND A WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT. LAST YEAR ALONE MORE THAN 100M WAS PAID OUT TO THESE THUGS.

AS FAR AS THESE CRIMINALS GO, WHY ISNT KILL KILL KILL AN OPTION?

[JITB]

THE SHIPS THEY ARE ATTACKING ARENT TAKING ANYTHING FROM SOMOLIA THOUGH, THEY ARE SIMPLY TRANSITING THE GULF OF ADEN. THIS IS NOT A ROBIN HOOD SENERIO, THIS IS A CASE OF MERITIME CRIMINALS THAT FOUND A WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT. LAST YEAR ALONE MORE THAN 100M WAS PAID OUT TO THESE THUGS.

AS FAR AS THESE CRIMINALS GO, WHY ISNT KILL KILL KILL AN OPTION?


I SAID IT STARTED AS A ROBIN HOOD TYPE OF THING, BUT HAS GROWN TO THE WAY IT IS NOW. WITH JUST PIRATES ATTACKING EVERY SHIP THAT GOES BY THAT AREA ATLEAST IN A 400 MILE RADIUS.

THERE IS NO WAY, NO COUNTRY IS GONNA FUND THIS WHOLE MISSION TO KILL EVERY PIRATE IN THAT REGION TO STOP THIS. ITS JUST A BIG DEAL NOW. THEY DONT HIDE, THEY DONT HIDE IN CAVES WITH BOXCUTTERS AND VIDEO CAMERAS. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CAMPS AND ITS NO SECRET. SOMALIA IS RAN BY MILITIA GROUPS, AND THESE GROUPS SUPPORT THE PIRATES, AND THE PIRATES DO LIKEWISE. NOONE CARES ABOUT ANYTHING THAT GOES ON UNTIL THE MEDIA GETS A HOLD OF IT. WHOS GONNA FUND THIS MISSION TO KILL THE PIRATES.

[BanginJimmy]

I can tell you that Paul is right, the international community is just waiting for America to do it. When we do, we will probably be talked bad about by those same countries.

[JITB]

I can tell you that Paul is right, the international community is just waiting for America to do it. When we do, we will probably be talked bad about by those same countries.


True, but its just some things that america needs to stay out of. Fighting these militias, will open up a whole new can of worms.. so to me its just not worth it to go in like that gun v. gun in that region.. we got enough people to fight right now...or so they say.

[BanginJimmy]

True, but its just some things that america needs to stay out of. Fighting these militias, will open up a whole new can of worms.. so to me its just not worth it to go in like that gun v. gun in that region.. we got enough people to fight right now...or so they say.

So just act like it never happened and further empower them is your 'solution' to the problem?

[.blank cd]

So just act like it never happened and further empower them is your 'solution' to the problem?
You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea. Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

[BanginJimmy]

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea.

This and Vietnam are in no way similar. These pirates represent a threat to Americans on the high seas. Vietnam was a case of stemming the expansion of communism.





Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

so your answer to my question would be yes.

[ahabion]

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea.

Vietnam was a good idea... it got my folks here to America and here I live... so yes Vietnam was good for me :)


Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

Hrm... well if you're ever endangered oversees, I guess best thing for you to do is just commit suicide because there is no hope for you. Afterall, we wouldn't want to waste military resources.

[preferredduck]

Whose fault is it that they dont have a govt? Ours? Nothing is going to solve that problem short of complete extermination of those that are committing the crimes. That or making it un-profitable for them to risk it. Coddling them, and telling them its not their fault will only make the problem worse.

they have no government correct, and at the airport they ask you what caliber gun you have with you. it's pretty much a lawless place. if people stole oil/land and polluted there than i see them getting pissed and i have seen some videos of hwat has been done to the resources over there and somebody made a quick easy buck. if they have resources they can be used to help the people but if i remember correct the money goes to a selct few locals and thats it. there is more to the root of this problem and there are many things that can be done to prevent it and some muscle may be included. BUT b/c this is an international problem i think all countries should use resources instead of the US going in alone to "save the day".

[JITB]

So just act like it never happened and further empower them is your 'solution' to the problem?


I DIDNT SAY THAT NEVER HAVE

I said, deal with the underlying problem thats causing all this. Which is the abuse of the land by western companies taking advantage of their resources. And not doing the correct thing, which is pay the toll, you want to use the resources use it pay..and dont destroy the area to where the locals cant even live there anymore. you deal with that, and it would make the whole situation alot easier. but like i said before it wont happen. Too much money involved The profit made off the resources of that coast is more than the amount lost from re-routing ships..

IT is a waste to fight in that region against the militants.. we have tried plenty times... its not the best and easiest thing.

[Paul]

True, but its just some things that america needs to stay out of. Fighting these militias, will open up a whole new can of worms.. so to me its just not worth it to go in like that gun v. gun in that region.. we got enough people to fight right now...or so they say.

What is going to happen if we fight back, really? These people are controlled by war lords of a 3rd world country. They deal in drugs, guns, slavery, sex, etc... these people are doing this b/c this is the only way to make money. You arm the ships and allow them to hire privatized military options. First few that are killed will start a backlash probably escalate the frequency of this but then Gov will step in and fuck Somalia's world up.

This isn't like we are messing w/ Iraq/Afghanistan.

Donald Trump was on morning news this morning and they asked him about this situation; i think he is a smart business man.... flat out he was like "you give the ships guns - multi million dollar vessels are being taken over pirates in small motorized boats. guns for guns!"

[Total_Blender]

The crewmen on these ships are not soldiers, and would have to be trained to defend their ships with weapons. Probably more trouble to the shipping companies than its worth.

I think they would probably be better served by a team that provided armed escort through the problem areas.

In Somalia your career options are pretty much

1.) corrupt gov't official
2.) warlord
3.) militia fighter
4.) pirate
5.) drug smuggler

Untill Somalia has any kind of structure other than anarchy, crime will be the only job that pays.

[JITB]

What is going to happen if we fight back, really? These people are controlled by war lords of a 3rd world country. They deal in drugs, guns, slavery, sex, etc... these people are doing this b/c this is the only way to make money. You arm the ships and allow them to hire privatized military options. First few that are killed will start a backlash probably escalate the frequency of this but then Gov will step in and fuck Somalia's world up.

This isn't like we are messing w/ Iraq/Afghanistan.

Donald Trump was on morning news this morning and they asked him about this situation; i think he is a smart business man.... flat out he was like "you give the ships guns - multi million dollar vessels are being taken over pirates in small motorized boats. guns for guns!"


Fighting back as in getting guards on the boats isnt fighting back.. its just defending. but all wont defend themselves. Like i said this is a problem for years now, and hasnt been solved with warfare in the past and i dont see it being solved this time either.

[BanginJimmy]

nukes would solve the problem. Its not like anyone would notice.


I like the idea I heard today. Put 20 or 30 ships in a line and convoy them through with a warship as a escort. 2 convoys a day going in each direction. The amount of time lost would be minimal compared to the threat.

[preferredduck]

nukes would solve the problem. Its not like anyone would notice.


I like the idea I heard today. Put 20 or 30 ships in a line and convoy them through with a warship as a escort. 2 convoys a day going in each direction. The amount of time lost would be minimal compared to the threat.

if somolia was nuked it might take a few hours off the trip if the land mass is gone!!!! the convoy is a good idea b/c a battleship could turn a speedboat to swiss cheese in seconds. even if they put like 3 armed personel on the ships i say one of them gets a rocket launcher and when the speedboat thinks this is going to be easy pickings blow them to hell. but don't warn them of this, after a few of their boats get blown up they will get the idea. france killed several pirates today so i have heard. now if the international navy ships can find the motherships they need to be sunk and turned into an artificail reef.

blender you are right that country is lawless and corrupt and a lot of businesses made a quick buck, ruined and polluted the land and jumped ship. as i said the whole world needs to help out not just the US.

[Paul]

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea. Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

This is why privatized military is in business. :goodjob:

[Total_Blender]

This is why privatized military is in business. :goodjob:

I'm amazed the shipping industry hasn't banded together and hired Blackwater (they have a new name now I forget what it is) to go after the pirates. Or at least contracted Blackwater to escort the ships.

[Paul]

I'm amazed the shipping industry hasn't banded together and hired Blackwater (they have a new name now I forget what it is) to go after the pirates. Or at least contracted Blackwater to escort the ships.

i think this will be a future option; i think there are regulations though currently having ships w/ arsenals in international ports/waters. :thinking:

[BanginJimmy]

i think this will be a future option; i think there are regulations though currently having ships w/ arsenals in international ports/waters. :thinking:


the law is VERY vague and changes from country to country, but in essence any fixed weapons could classify it as a warship.

As far as armed personnel on the ships, the law is also vague, but most ports will not allow armed men on a merchant ship.


Those 2 reasons are why the convoy idea would probably be the most beneficial to everyone. Get 12 or so countries to 'donate' a warship or 2 to the security of the convoys and have them a 1 month convoy duty.

[Total_Blender]

i think this will be a future option; i think there are regulations though currently having ships w/ arsenals in international ports/waters. :thinking:

You are right about that. I was thinking they'd use unarmed ships and then have armed choppers that would use the ships as a base. I remember seeing some destroyers and cruisers that have helicopter platforms in Jane's Defense. Helicopters would be faster moving and better to patrol with than boats anyway, and it doesn't take a whole lot of firepower to destroy the fishing vessels or speedboats the pirates are using :ninja: