Info from the experts?

[AnthonyF]

I am looking for non biased information regarding bikes. Preferably from people who have ridden different makes.

I'm looking at getting a Gixxer or CBR. I know Gixxer's and generally cheaper but who doesn't have one? Amirite? I've heard the 600 is boring and you dislike it shortly after owning it. I've always loved the 750 look. Any pros, cons?

I also love the Honda CBR but they are a bit more expensive, correct? I heard that bike is very easy to ride and very well balanced.

This would be my first bike and I know I will prob fuck something up. So which one would be cheaper to fix? lol There is a Cycle nation near my parents house for easy access parts for the Suzuki. I do not like Yamaha so please don't say anything about getting an R6. Appreciate da info, +20 for help too:goodjob:

-Ant.

[AnthonyF]

Also info on the Ducati. I found some used ones with 10k or less miles for not a bad price.

-Ant.

[Tarzanman]

*Ahem* I'll chime in and give you advice, but I would be surprised if you follow it.

1. NEW RIDER
As a new rider. A 600cc bike is not a good match for a first bike. There are a couple of different reasons, but the primary reason is safety. A modern, 600cc supersport motorcycle (GSXR, R6, 600RR, ZX6R, etc) is both more powerful, and more difficult to operate than other, more new-rider suitable motorcycles (GS500, 250R, etc).
There are people who disagree, but I have found that those folks are generally more ignorant about proper/skillfull riding technique. There are some people who start (too) big and eventually learn about proper technique, and the majority of those riders usually say that they would start smaller if they had to do it all over again.
This is an often argued, endlessly debated topic among motorcycle riders... however the fact is that riding a motorcycle IS dangerous, and it is better to start out being as safe as possible. You WILL drop your bike and/or have a minor accident learning (among all the riders I have met, I am one of only 2-3 people that never dropped their bike learning), so don't be fooled into thinking that 'taking it easy' on an advanced machine will necessarily save you from any mishaps. The difference is that a new-rider friendly motorcycle will give you more leeway to correct mistakes (and we ALL make them), and punish you less for incorrect inputs to steering, throttle, or braking.
I will close this part of my post by saying this: When I was still learning, there are two curbs, and one *minivan* that I would have most likely hit had I been on an R6 (my 2nd bike) instead of a GS500 (my 1st bike). I wasn't riding irresponsibly or anything.... there are just growing pains in learning that you have to get through. Start small until you are ready to start learning on a bigger bike. I rode my first bike for ~8 months and ~4000 miles before I stepped up. Remember that your first bike is just that... your FIRST bike. I've been riding for almost 4 years and I'm on my 4th bike (R1).

2. THE BRANDS
Despite what you may hear, there are very, very minor differences between 97% of supersport motorcycles, and even less differences between the big 4 japanese bikes. Distance from a dealership is a more important factors as to parts availability than brand. That being said, parts for japanese bikes are almost always cheaper, and less maintenance is required on them than their German, Italian, American, and British counterparts (though, that has been changing in the past 2 years or so).
Even an intermediate rider would have difficulty discerning the differences in handling/performance between a GSXR or CBRR. The differences simply don't exist for a new rider because a motorcycle's performance is 95% the skill of the rider and 5% the bike. Go to a track day or amateur race and you will sometimes see a rider on a 600 absolutely destroying riders on 1000's. Happens all the time.

3. GETTING BORED WITH 600s
Another phrase that is often argued about amongst riders. The only people I have ever heard utter that phrase are straight-line speed junkies. If you are a speed junkie, then you should AVOID getting a street bike and learn to ride track only (or you will end up in the hospital, in jail, or worse). 1000cc and 600cc bikes both have their strengths and weaknesses. I just went from an R6 to an R1 about 6 months ago. Even though I do like the additional power of a 1000cc engine, it takes more work to get the motorcycle to do what I want and I have to pay extra attention to my throttle control and how I have loaded the suspension. T
he R1 does not, and will not ever corner or handle as well as an R6. The same can be said for any 1000cc vs 600cc bike. I still have my R6 (its for sale!), and ride it occasionally to keep it in working order... and every time I do I notice how much more freedom to maneuver there is on it.
As for power, even though a 1000cc engine is stronger, a 600cc bike is faster than 98% of the cars on the road. *Even A 500cc bike* like a GS500 is faster than 90% of the cars out there. A GS500 will keep pace from a dead stop off the line with a Corvette till ~ 60-70mph or so... and that bike only has a 40hp engine!

4. BIKE COST
Try to buy used. Less expensive, and just as good if you do your homework (sometimes better, even). Trust me when i say you'll have a lot more fun riding and getting gear for a bike you don't owe any money on than your buddy who is giving the bank $300/month to finance his hobby (which he might not even do during the winter when its cold). Its just less fuss, less paperwork, and insurance is cheaper on used bikes.

5. IN THE END
Go with a smaller bike to start out on. If looks are important to you (which is understandable) then give serious consideration to the:
1. Totally awesome 2008-? Kawasaki Ninja 250R (http://bikepics.com/kawasaki/gpx250/)
2. Fully faired 2004-? Suzuki GS500 (http://bikepics.com/suzuki/gs500/)

Other bikes which are a bit more powerful than the first two, but still moderately new-rider friendly
3. 2006-? Kawasaki Ninja 650R (http://bikepics.com/kawasaki/er6f/)
4. Yamaha FZ6R (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/619/home.aspx2009)
5. 2001-? Suzuki SV650 (http://bikepics.com/suzuki/sv650s/)

-EDIT-
Ducati bikes are expensive to own. They are considered luxury bikes by many. More maintenance is required and parts are expensive. I'd join to Duc message boards and ask around before you commit to getting one.

[AnthonyF]

I like you. + a shit load for ever.

I am def not a speed junkie and will probably never go over 120. Most will say "yeah yea, wait till you get on it" But I will not. I know there are WAYYY to many possibilities of what could happen.

i appreciate all the info. I like your take on everything and your reasoning behind it all. I am looking for a bike based on looks. I love the GSXR 750 look over the 600. But again, this is my 1st bike. I'm 5'9" @ 150. I appreciate the offers on the smaller bikes but I guess I want to uphold my image b/c, again, I'm going off of looks and the looks of the smaller bikes are kinda "wimpy".

I def am purchasing used. I'm looking for '00-04 GSXR's for the time being. Now, here is a question for you, I know with bikes it is different with mileage than cars, how high of mileage is too high?? 10k? 20k? Or does it not matter that much?

I saw a Duck on ebay and he mentioned he was apart of a Ducati Atlanta Owners group. So I might look them up, later when I have been able to handle a machine like that w/o breaking it.

-Ant.

[wannab20hatch]

the only difference between the cbr and gixxer is really your height. im like right at 6ft and i didnt like the reach on my gixxer. felt like i was havingto reach for the front wheel or something. the cbr is a great bike and a little more compact. And a 600 is definitely more than enough for anyone. theres expert riders who still havent moved away from a 600 because their still fast enough.

[Tarzanman]

No offense, but I would rather you dislike me (as many on this board do) and take my advice rather than like me and jump to a 600 bike.

Nothing personal... I would just rather you increase your odds of staying healthy, and learning faster....and you WILL learn faster on a bike like a GS500. Guaranteed.

There is nothing wrong with the looks of any of the bikes I listed in my post. Their aesthetic is as new, or newer than the 00-04 GSXRs that you say you are considering.

As for mileage....it won't matter. If you are like most sport bike owners you will have a new bike within 1-2 years anyway.

Expert riders ride 600s because 600's are the sweet spot between power and performance. They can be rung out at high RPMs to generate torque but are lighter and quicker to flick around than their 1000cc cousins.

Nobody I ride with ever judges anyone for what they are riding. They judge people for HOW they ride it. It doesn't matter what you buy... there is ALWAYS someone with more bling, more torque, more whatever on their bike. Don't be a sheep, trying to impress your friends so that you can fit in. More than a couple of riders have met their end doing sh*t that was way beyond their capabilities because of the group they were trying to fit in with.

...and don't think that it can't happen to you, or that you're different. Sorry, you're not. There are dozens of posts exactly like yours that pop up every season. I can think of at least one young new rider who used to be on this board that is no longer with us.

I've given you more than enough advice for you to have a safe start. Even though I knew I was wasting my breath I still feel obligated to put good information into the hands of a new rider (even the idiots that ignore it). What happens from here on will be the result of the choices you make. I wash my hands of it.

Good Luck.

[SampaGuy]

Get a friend to let you ride their 600 in a parking lot. Tell them you will pay if you break anything. You will see that a 600 is no joke. If you have ridden minibikes or dirt bikes before, and youre used to the controls already, maybe you will be ok, but be careful.

[umairejaz]

I have riden almost all of the new sport bikes and I would go with the r6. The seating position is very agressive. Gsxr is by far the most comfortable.

[AnthonyF]

No offense, but I would rather you dislike me (as many on this board do) and take my advice rather than like me and jump to a 600 bike.

Nothing personal... I would just rather you increase your odds of staying healthy, and learning faster....and you WILL learn faster on a bike like a GS500. Guaranteed.

There is nothing wrong with the looks of any of the bikes I listed in my post. Their aesthetic is as new, or newer than the 00-04 GSXRs that you say you are considering.

As for mileage....it won't matter. If you are like most sport bike owners you will have a new bike within 1-2 years anyway.

Expert riders ride 600s because 600's are the sweet spot between power and performance. They can be rung out at high RPMs to generate torque but are lighter and quicker to flick around than their 1000cc cousins.

Nobody I ride with ever judges anyone for what they are riding. They judge people for HOW they ride it. It doesn't matter what you buy... there is ALWAYS someone with more bling, more torque, more whatever on their bike. Don't be a sheep, trying to impress your friends so that you can fit in. More than a couple of riders have met their end doing sh*t that was way beyond their capabilities because of the group they were trying to fit in with.

...and don't think that it can't happen to you, or that you're different. Sorry, you're not. There are dozens of posts exactly like yours that pop up every season. I can think of at least one young new rider who used to be on this board that is no longer with us.

I've given you more than enough advice for you to have a safe start. Even though I knew I was wasting my breath I still feel obligated to put good information into the hands of a new rider (even the idiots that ignore it). What happens from here on will be the result of the choices you make. I wash my hands of it.

Good Luck.
I do like you. You are not biased, you have great facts, you are honest, you have personal experience which helps you have an open mind. :goodjob:

I guess you don't know me very well. I've been on this site for a long as time. I've driven from 90 hp cars to 1600hp Vipers. I am mature about what I do. I do not care if some1 can do a wheelie. I dont want to. I hated doing wheelies on my bicycle. I dont try to impress people, they don't like me, I dont give a fuck. :D

And no, you didn't waste your breath. I am doing research and your info has helped.

-Ant.

[AnthonyF]

Get a friend to let you ride their 600 in a parking lot. Tell them you will pay if you break anything. You will see that a 600 is no joke. If you have ridden minibikes or dirt bikes before, and youre used to the controls already, maybe you will be ok, but be careful.gotta find some1.

-Ant.

[David88vert]

Anthony, 04-05 GSXR 600s and 750s look identical - the 750 just has the bigger motor.

GSXR600s are really good if you are going to race and might wad the bike. Parts are plentiful and cheap.

Honda's usually have the least amount of problems, and run smoothly for a very long time. They are a great street bike, and a very good track bike as well.

Either way, you can't go wrong. Go see Sung, he has a 07 CBR600 down at the shop.

Don't get the Duc. Maintenance is expensive on a 4 valve Duc, and parts are expensive if you lay it down. Start with something smaller, and you can always trade up later.

[GIXXERDK]

Dude, 600 and 750 gixxers look the same. If your not going to go faster than 120 mph why would you get tired of a 600? 600 is fast enough for the streets, you will break the speed limit in 1st gear.

The things I hear a lot are that Honda's are more reliable yet more costly. Then again it really comes down to how you take care of it. I never had a problem with my gixxer.

I wont tell you to go buy a gs500 or a ninja 250 b.c you have your mind already set on the bigger bikes. You will learn a lot quicker if you start small.

[AnthonyF]

Thank you guys for your input. Maybe it is just a mirage and thinking the 750 is larger.

I might learn quicker, but again, Im a fast learner. I started learning a stick shift with a viper and how to drive with that type of vehicle. I will prob get a 600 which is the smarter thing to do.

-Ant.

[EJ25RUN]

I'll make it brief.

I feel smalled CC bikes such as the Kawi Ninja 250 help a rider develop their skills much better than will a 600+ sportbike.

You need to get to the point where a small bike will do anything you want on it before you move to a 600.

That is the way i would do it. Your first car shouldn't be a 500hp+ car so a sport bike shouldn't be a first bike.

One more thing. I am under the impression that an accident is not unlikely so getting a new bike with expensive fairings and bits is also a bad idea.

Get something cheap just in case you drop it.

[GIXXERDK]

Thank you guys for your input. Maybe it is just a mirage and thinking the 750 is larger.

I might learn quicker, but again, Im a fast learner. I started learning a stick shift with a viper and how to drive with that type of vehicle. I will prob get a 600 which is the smarter thing to do.

-Ant.

Yeah man, just start with a 600. It is plenty fast and you wont even use 100% of the bikes potential. I personally would get the 04-05 used. I think they look the nicest.

You cant compare a bike to a car, the learning curve is very different.

Just be careful when buying a used bike, since you don't know what a bike feels like get someone who rides and knowledgeable to test it.

[Tarzanman]

My roommate has had two Hondas and my riding buddy has owned three of them. They are no better (and no worse) than any of the other japanese bikes. Just as many recalls, just as many problems, and just as much a pain in the ass to work on.

The Honda=better is a myth.


Anthony, 04-05 GSXR 600s and 750s look identical - the 750 just has the bigger motor.

GSXR600s are really good if you are going to race and might wad the bike. Parts are plentiful and cheap.

Honda's usually have the least amount of problems, and run smoothly for a very long time. They are a great street bike, and a very good track bike as well.

Either way, you can't go wrong. Go see Sung, he has a 07 CBR600 down at the shop.

Don't get the Duc. Maintenance is expensive on a 4 valve Duc, and parts are expensive if you lay it down. Start with something smaller, and you can always trade up later.

[Hondatwin23]

Makes sense to me.

[DynamicSound]

The main difference between bikes is the feel of when you are sitting on it. Since you are 5'9" I really suggest sitting on them first because I think the Gixxer is going to be a stretch for you...unless you lower it. Honda's are more evenly balanced where the GSXR's are more aggressive. This is why I chose the Honda. As far as maintanance goes, they all will be about the same. It just depends on how you treat it, just like any car. If you decide to leave it outside all year round then prepare for issues or a reduced lifespan.

As far as looks, everyone has the older style Gixxers, which is another factor that made me decide on the Honda. Now, the new style of Gixxers are not seen too much and they are hot.

Ducati's look good for sure. I have never ridden one, but all of the people that I know have ridden then said that they peferred their bike better. This could be because they are used to it, but thought I would let you know.

[AirMax95]

I like this threads direction.

[Hondatwin23]

If you want you cant test ride my 750, its a streetfighter so im naked any who.
get the 600 and be very careful so we can all go riding!

[David88vert]

My roommate has had two Hondas and my riding buddy has owned three of them. They are no better (and no worse) than any of the other japanese bikes. Just as many recalls, just as many problems, and just as much a pain in the ass to work on.

The Honda=better is a myth.

I've had all of the jap brands, and multiple sportbike models. The Honda isn't "better", but it tends to be smoother, and less maintenance. Currently, I have a R1, and just sold my GSXR. For me, I'm fine with any of them, but the Honda is slightly less agressive, and slightly more stable for a new rider (also a little heavier). It's FI is slightly smoother, and they tend to need very little maintenance. That's good for a new rider. The GXSR's tend to be easier to work on then the Honda's for me though - just a little bit.

[Tarzanman]

You have your opinion, that's fine. I've worked on enough Hondas to dispell any myth of superior quality or engineering..... in particular the POS rectifiers they put on their bikes that like to fail.

[David88vert]

You have your opinion, that's fine. I've worked on enough Hondas to dispell any myth of superior quality or engineering..... in particular the POS rectifiers they put on their bikes that like to fail.

If you think that Honda rectifiers are bad, try Yamaha. They definitely fail more often - especially on the older designed FZRs. I have yet to have a Honda rectifier die, but they do tend to push the spark plugs back out from time to time. Honda's engine placement to frame crossmember in regards to changing the spark is the worst design of all though. No room left.

[AnthonyF]

wowzers. Thanks for the info guys. is there any particular year of the GSXR that is worse or better than the rest?

looking in the 00-04 range. Also, I asked about mileage, how high of mileage is TOO high? 20k?

-Ant.

[umairejaz]

Bikes average about 3k miles per year.

[punkr6]

20k is a lot for a sport bike, unless you get a real good deal and don't mind replacing some parts like clutch, chain, sprockets, ect. also at your height and weight a 600 would be perfect. don't waste your time on anything smaller or you will be selling it in 3 monthes...

it would be a real good idea to go to a bike shop and sit on a few different models and see whats confertible to you :goodjob:

[AnthonyF]

^thanks you two.

I am hoping to go to WOW this weekend and take a gander at a few and like you said, test fit them. :goodjob:

-Ant.

PS: +20 to the people that helped out.

[umairejaz]

I know you said you didn't like R's but do me a favor and be sure to give the new R6 a seat too. You might like it.

[AnthonyF]

You're right. I shouldn't be biased and be close minded. I guess it is Suzuki's sexy colors that turn me on.

-Ant.

[Tarzanman]

If you think that Honda rectifiers are bad, try Yamaha. They definitely fail more often - especially on the older designed FZRs. I have yet to have a Honda rectifier die, but they do tend to push the spark plugs back out from time to time. Honda's engine placement to frame crossmember in regards to changing the spark is the worst design of all though. No room left.

Actually, Honda's most infamous rectifier (probably the one on the VTR-1000 superhawk), which goes out like clockwork around ~23k miles is most often replaced with a.... Yamaha R1 rectifier.

I have owned 3 Yamahas, my friend had one (fzr, actually) and my roommate currently owns one. we've never replaced any of the rectifiers on any of them. There was an ignition coil recall on one of my R6's, and there is a TPS recall on my YZF-R1 and roommate's XV 1700 (they use the same TPS)

[AnthonyF]

Can you tell me what a rectifier is? I own an auto repair shop, i know a shit load about cars, hardly anything about bikes. Always love learning.

-Ant.

[David88vert]

Ant - if you like the look of the GSXR's then look closely at them. ANY of the 600s will be fine, as long as you maintain it. 20K miles on a sportbike is not a lot IF it has been maintained properly. The problem is, a lot of people don't change out wear items (just like on cars), and try to be cheap. Have someone who knows what they are looking at inspect it first. Get a bike that fits you well also. GSXRs tend to be a little taller, so make certain that you are comfortable.
I wouldn't get it from WOW - prices are too high. Private seller is usually your best route.




Tarzanman - I've never had a SuperHawk, only 900/929/954/1000RRs, and they have been very solid. I've had FZR400s and 600s, and they had rectifier issues (known design issue). My R1s (00/02) have been pretty solid as well, and no electrical problems. I've never had an R6, but worked on a few, and had to replace a couple of stators.

[Hondatwin23]

Ant - if you like the look of the GSXR's then look closely at them. ANY of the 600s will be fine, as long as you maintain it. 20K miles on a sportbike is not a lot IF it has been maintained properly. The problem is, a lot of people don't change out wear items (just like on cars), and try to be cheap. Have someone who knows what they are looking at inspect it first. Get a bike that fits you well also. GSXRs tend to be a little taller, so make certain that you are comfortable.
I wouldn't get it from WOW - prices are too high. Private seller is usually your best route.

Tarzanman - I've never had a SuperHawk, only 900/929/954/1000RRs, and they have been very solid. I've had FZR400s and 600s, and they had rectifier issues (known design issue). My R1s (00/02) have been pretty solid as well, and no electrical problems. I've never had an R6, but worked on a few, and had to replace a couple of stators.

:yes: , get what you like by loook and if you can ride one go ahead and test them out. All bikes will have an issue if half ass kept. find a common part like a stator and other parts known to go out and compare prices from each brand.

IMO....honda.....reliable
Suzuki.....poplar
Kawi....... new stunter choice
Yama......good performance

[AirMax95]

I'm looking into a 600 from my cousins in NC. They build custom show and drag bikes. They told me to get a good deal on a high mileage bike and they will replace the necessary parts! I just want it for my short commutes in Gwinnett. No speed needed, just looks here.

Where are the best locations in the ATL area for classes? I have not hopped on a bike in almost 5 years, lol.

[Hondatwin23]

trust bike equal speed

[AnthonyF]

Thanks guys.

Thanks David. I just need to find some1 in the area who knows what to look for. :goodjob: I know I can tell when a car has been in a wreck or not. Thats what i need, some1 like that for bikes.

AirMax-me too. Looks > going super duper fast

-Ant.

[David88vert]

Ant - I sometimes have time on the weekends. Sung has a lot of experience with bikes, so hit him up for info also.
Just because a bike has been in a wreck before does not mean that you should avoid it. I've rebuilt several totaled bikes to better shape than they were from the factory. It's not like a car.
Almost any decent bike will be fine for you. The performance of any 600 is more than enough for the street once you learn to ride well.

[AnthonyF]

Thanks david! I dont think Sung cares for my shop anymore. I am not sure. :( I'll pm you my number when it comes close to actually purchasing one. I'm going prob saturday to take a look at them.

-Ant.

[Tarzanman]

I'm going to disagree. Until you know a little bit more about bikes, I would avoid anything that has been wrecked unless the seller certifies that all issues have been addressed.

Nothing sucks worse than having a new (to you) bike sitting in your driveway that you can't ride because its broken when you have no tools and no knowledge of how to fix it!

Here is a general guide for looking at used bikes. I don't agree with all of the points the author makes, but its a very thorough explanation nonetheless.

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

[JDM-95-Hatch]

CBR in my opinion i have owned a gsxr 600 and now own a cbr954rr, both are really good bikes, but so far the cbr has required way less maintenance not saying that it's a better bike just saying i have had better luck with the CBR, I would definately suggest starting with a used bike though, because no matter how carefull you are with a new bike things WILL happen, more bikes are dropped in parking lots everyday than you can imagine not necessarily from unskilled riders just from the fact of the weight of the bike and once the weight shifts wrong there is no stopping it. At least with a used bike you dont have to worry as much of scratching it and you can always find cheap replacement parts on ebay. versus a new bike fairing costing hundreds. You can find an excellent condition low mileage 600 for 3800 and up depending on the year model, and even the older bikes from 1999+ are just about as quick as the new bikes just a little heavier.. And i know everyone always tells you to start with a smaller bike but i am one of the ones who disagree, its more to do with how responsible you can be with the power at hand, the bike no matter what size only goes as fast as you make it go, people can get hurt just as bad on a 250 as a 1000cc, just get the bike that makes you happy and learn to ride it at your own pace.

[Hondatwin23]

^^^.....fucking bingo

[Z0_o6]

i don't buy all this bullshit about "just get a 600 and try to be responsible"

the guys that know how to ride aren't saying start small to help themselves out!!! they are saying it to TRY to get the newbies to listen. I started on a 600. yes, i dropped that 600. i also took a lot longer to learn than had I ponied up the money to buy a 250 or a 500. I have personally ridden the '08 Ninja 250, I'm 5'7" and about 160 lbs. so not far off from Ant's size. that bike was WAY more fun than my first 600 was, simply because it wasn't so powerful that it scared me. It gave me the ability to take concentration off of just throttle control and think about technique, surroundings, posture, control position, all the IMPORTANT things!!

Anthony, personally bro it is your decision in the end, but please listen to the guys who have been where you are. start smaller than a 600 race replica. this is your first bike, not your last bike. I've wrecked before, I can guarantee you that when you're picking asphalt out of your skin it won't matter how cool that bike looked. it hurts just the same no matter what.

anyone who doesn't agree that it is ALWAYS better to start small is either a dipshit who doesn't ride, or a just plain dipshit with an ego.

[DynamicSound]

i don't buy all this bullshit about "just get a 600 and try to be responsible"

the guys that know how to ride aren't saying start small to help themselves out!!! they are saying it to TRY to get the newbies to listen. I started on a 600. yes, i dropped that 600. i also took a lot longer to learn than had I ponied up the money to buy a 250 or a 500. I have personally ridden the '08 Ninja 250, I'm 5'7" and about 160 lbs. so not far off from Ant's size. that bike was WAY more fun than my first 600 was, simply because it wasn't so powerful that it scared me. It gave me the ability to take concentration off of just throttle control and think about technique, surroundings, posture, control position, all the IMPORTANT things!!

Anthony, personally bro it is your decision in the end, but please listen to the guys who have been where you are. start smaller than a 600 race replica. this is your first bike, not your last bike. I've wrecked before, I can guarantee you that when you're picking asphalt out of your skin it won't matter how cool that bike looked. it hurts just the same no matter what.

anyone who doesn't agree that it is ALWAYS better to start small is either a dipshit who doesn't ride, or a just plain dipshit with an ego.

This is where the responsibility comes in and respecting the bike. My situation, I read up on all the techniques online like counter steering, etc. I then watched tons of tutorials on youtube. This was a great resource and there are tons of videos from tons of people. So you get to see it at every angle. I think I studied online for a month straight...almost every night. I then signed up for the MSF course at a Harley Davidson dealership. All the info I had already read basically sumed up the class. It allowed me to easily pay attention and learn since I already had learned it and looked up every possible thing I didn't understand. On the coarse we rode the Buell Blast which is a 400cc bike I believe. Riding on it just made everything snap into place. I was by far more advanced then any other person in the class. This was including people that had already been riding!! BTW...this was the first time I have even sat on a bike. During the class, I bought my CBR600RR. After the class and receiving my license, I started in parking lots and around the neiborhood for the first couple of weeks. Then I took it out on the streets for about a week. Then stepped up to the interstate. Because of the steps I took to learn the process, I never once felt scared. As far as falling, you can fall on any bike (including 250's) if you are not careful. So no matter what CC bike you get, it depends on how serious are you taking it. You can start on a 250 and then jump to 600 and kill yourself just as fast as someone that started on a 600. Needless to say, it doesn't matter what cc bike you have or start with, if you are not careful and do not learn the proper way to ride, you are probably going to kill yourself.

[Z0_o6]

while i agree with you i do have one objection:

would you not agree that starting out small is a big help in lessening the risks? i can't advocate anyone starting out on a race replica bike, no matter how conservative they ride they can't change the fact that these bikes are NOT forgiving to the mistakes a new rider WILL make.

[DynamicSound]

while i agree with you i do have one objection:

would you not agree that starting out small is a big help in lessening the risks? i can't advocate anyone starting out on a race replica bike, no matter how conservative they ride they can't change the fact that these bikes are NOT forgiving to the mistakes a new rider WILL make.

I agree that there is less chance they will be going fast when they wreck. Or less change of wrecking from quick take offs. However, I have seen plenty of people wreck on Ninja 250's. It just might not be as bad as the 600. I just think that no matter what bike you learn on, if you do not take the time to really master it as much as you can prior to getting on the bike, then you are more likely to wreck no matter what you start on. It is like this one guy in my class. He had a 1800cc Harley. It had it for 6 months and was riding it. The only problem he said he was having was going up hills with it. Well, when he got on the Buell Blast, he wreck it 3 times. This other woman had been riding bikes (Harley) for years up to about 2 years ago. She sold her bike and never rode one during that time period. She decided to get another one since her husband loves to ride. She bought a PowerGlide I think it was. Well, she dropped her Buell during the course once and almost did it again another time. The only 2 people (4 in class total) that didn't drop their bikes was myself and this other girl. Both of us were 100% new to it, never rode before. The difference was we were more serious about it because it was new. These other 2 thought they new what they were doing but couldn't handle a bike 1/4th the size/power/weight as what they were normally riding. So you can start off on a 250, get cocky because it is easy and they kill yourself on a 600 just as fast.

I look at the whole starting on a smaller bike as a good idea in theory. In a perfect world it would help people step up to a larger bike with more ease. However, this is not a perfect world and it all depends on the individual.

[AnthonyF]

while i agree with you i do have one objection:

would you not agree that starting out small is a big help in lessening the risks? i can't advocate anyone starting out on a race replica bike, no matter how conservative they ride they can't change the fact that these bikes are NOT forgiving to the mistakes a new rider WILL make.

I do agree to this. But as I am the impatient type I will prob get a 600 and be very responsible.

Again, I learned how to drive a 450hp Viper when I was 15....in the winter. No joke and continued through the summer. 17 i was taking it to school. I know A LOT about responsibility and how to learn/adapt quickly.

Don't worry, I am taking in EVERYTHING you guys say. From the good, to the bad. Each has their own opinion and when it comes down to it, I will remember each.

I am NOT planning on getting the bike and going straight to the hwy. Parking lots first then gradually upgrade.

-Ant.

[DynamicSound]

Here is an example...

What is the number 1 way people lean their bikes??? The use their body to lean to the side they want. Well, did you also know that the number 1 reason bikers run into cars that jump front of them is because they actually turn into the car??? Yep, instead of swerving to the direction away from the car, they turn into it. Why is this?? It is because we are creatures of habit. What happens in a spilt second when you need to turn a direction?? In am emergency situation? You turn the wheel/handlebars in the direction you want to go. So what happens if your turn the handlebars in the opposite direction of the car?? You turn right into the car. This is because people do not learn that Counter Steering is the best way to lean your bike. If you practice it and use it, then in an emergency, you will use it and properly avoid the car.

This is one example why a smaller bike does not help you unless you learn the proper way to ride. The sad part is, you can talk to a lot of people that have been riding for years and they have no clue what counter steering is. lol

[Z0_o6]

I do agree to this. But as I am the impatient type I will prob get a 600 and be very responsible.

Again, I learned how to drive a 450hp Viper when I was 15....in the winter. No joke and continued through the summer. 17 i was taking it to school. I know A LOT about responsibility and how to learn/adapt quickly.

Don't worry, I am taking in EVERYTHING you guys say. From the good, to the bad. Each has their own opinion and when it comes down to it, I will remember each.

I am NOT planning on getting the bike and going straight to the hwy. Parking lots first then gradually upgrade.

-Ant.

I won't say you are wrong, I just don't think that it is a good comparison. I have a decently fast car (when it's running lol) and to go fast in it is COMPLETELY different than to go fast on a bike. i can go 100 mph in my car and i can tell i am going 100 mph. on a bike you feel like you are going 60, look down and you're going over 100. A car is a completely different set of inputs and controls, therefore it's apples to oranges. if the viper breaks traction what happens? it slides a little, or worst case scenario spins out. on a bike if you break traction in a turn, you are not likely to come out of it unless you do EXACTLY the right things, and even then it isn't guaranteed. A 600cc sport bike has similar if not better power:weight and a contact patch on the rear about the size of a postage stamp. it only takes literally a twitch of your right hand at the wrong time to put you on the dirt.

DynamicSound- I agree with your your point, irresponsibility is deadly no matter what the vehicle. Target fixation is dangerous, and unfortunately, instinctive to most people. I can't argue the point of counter steering either, simply because I'm just now getting good and comfortable with it myself as opposed to trying to lean the bike manually. I believe it is possible to learn and progress on a 600cc bike to start with, thats what I did! But the learning curve is even steeper than a beginner bike.


besides, Ant look around at the beginner bikes and their value. they don't depreciate as bad as most other bikes because there is always someone out there who wants to learn. Ninja 250's are a prime example of this, you buy one for 3500 now, learn to ride, and in 3 months, 6 months or whatever, you can relist it for sale for say.... 3000? basically for 500 plus maint. and gas, you had an open-ended rental that taught you how to ride, and if you drop it no biggie, it's not that expensive 600 you wanted first.

by all means get what makes you happy, like i said, it isn't my decision, i just don't want you to get hurt just because nobody tried to help inform you a little better. there is certainly no guarantee that you won't get hurt or killed on a bike, but personally i would try to reduce the risk as much as possible by starting out slower. there is nothing stopping you from stepping up to a bigger bike when you are comfortable except pride and patience. nobody that is worth listening to will ever make fun of you for starting out small. I believe there is even a Ninja 250 for sale on here right now from AaronFelipe (sp?) The value on that bike will not go down much if at all in the time it takes you to get comfortable on a bike.


and TAKE THE MSF COURSE!!!!:goodjob: it's money well spent. like DynamicSound stated, you will only learn as much as you are committed to learn. I only preach this stuff cause I don't wanna hear about anything bad happening to another new rider.

[Hondatwin23]

Please buy your bike.

[Halfwit]

i started out on a 91 ninja 500. and ive had jsut about everything since. 600's, gsxr 1000's, hayabusa.

they are all fun, and i do love faster bikes, but i would go back to a 600 with no problem. awesome bikes. easy to control down low, but fun in higher rpm's

[GIXXERDK]

i don't buy all this bullshit about "just get a 600 and try to be responsible"

the guys that know how to ride aren't saying start small to help themselves out!!! they are saying it to TRY to get the newbies to listen. I started on a 600. yes, i dropped that 600. i also took a lot longer to learn than had I ponied up the money to buy a 250 or a 500. I have personally ridden the '08 Ninja 250, I'm 5'7" and about 160 lbs. so not far off from Ant's size. that bike was WAY more fun than my first 600 was, simply because it wasn't so powerful that it scared me. It gave me the ability to take concentration off of just throttle control and think about technique, surroundings, posture, control position, all the IMPORTANT things!!

Anthony, personally bro it is your decision in the end, but please listen to the guys who have been where you are. start smaller than a 600 race replica. this is your first bike, not your last bike. I've wrecked before, I can guarantee you that when you're picking asphalt out of your skin it won't matter how cool that bike looked. it hurts just the same no matter what.

anyone who doesn't agree that it is ALWAYS better to start small is either a dipshit who doesn't ride, or a just plain dipshit with an ego.

Just like you and I and many other people. No one was going to stop us from getting a 600. Some people will listen but there are many that wont.

I learned pretty quick and hit the Mt's within 2 weeks, I did have experienced racers behind and in front of me giving me pointers.

[Tarzanman]

It doesn't matter. Everything you learned on a 600 would have been learned faster and more safely on a 500 or 250.

They are just that much easier to ride. You'd know that if you had ever spent more than 5 minutes on one.

[David88vert]

It doesn't matter. Everything you learned on a 600 would have been learned faster and more safely on a 500 or 250.

They are just that much easier to ride. You'd know that if you had ever spent more than 5 minutes on one.

You post the truth. I learned on a GS500 myself. Helped a lot.

[AnthonyF]

Well, the past 2 days ive been riding my buddies 99 R6 and it has been a blast. I've picked up on it quickly. We havent hit the streets no tag/license so thats a whole different ball game.

Question for your guys and helmets. Do you have 2 helmets for day time and night time or just swap lenses? Or just one lens?

Yamaha has a deal with 69 bucks for 3 years :goodjob:

-Ant.

[Halfwit]

i have a few different helmets, but the visor doesnt distort you THAT much.
i use a "dark" tint lens all the time, and i go to work when its dark, and ride at night often. but when its really dark, and your not in "town" (like back road where headlight is all you have) it can take away , but its not like your blind.

id say jsut get a regular lens, and wear some sunglasses underneath during the sun, they are easier to store and carry.

[Tarzanman]

Well, the past 2 days ive been riding my buddies 99 R6 and it has been a blast. I've picked up on it quickly. We havent hit the streets no tag/license so thats a whole different ball game.

Hahahahaha. Dude. I'm not knocking you... but the things you still don't know about motorcycling after 2 days would fill two books. Its good that you're learning the basic controls, but there are pro racers out there that will tell you that they still have a lot to learn.


Question for your guys and helmets. Do you have 2 helmets for day time and night time or just swap lenses? Or just one lens?

Yamaha has a deal with 69 bucks for 3 years :goodjob:

-Ant.
Depends on how much money you have to spend. I keep a tinted shield on one helmet and a clear shield on the other (so that I don't have to swap shields if I don't feel like it), but both helmets have clear and tinted shields that fit them.

69 bucks for 3 years of what?

[AnthonyF]

Hahahahaha. Dude. I'm not knocking you... but the things you still don't know about motorcycling after 2 days would fill two books. Its good that you're learning the basic controls, but there are pro racers out there that will tell you that they still have a lot to learn.no doubt no doubt. But i was focusing on the basics. Learning how to leave steady, learning hills, down shifting, etc... His had an idle issue but it got better as the bike warmed. Say what you wish, cool if you think you're hilarious. I've driven 1850hp Vipers, i think I can grasp the bike. No need for you to act all cocky for no reason. I've been doing this for a day.



Depends on how much money you have to spend. I keep a tinted shield on one helmet and a clear shield on the other (so that I don't have to swap shields if I don't feel like it), but both helmets have clear and tinted shields that fit them.

69 bucks for 3 years of what?
New bikes start out a 69 bucks a month for 3 years for 8,900 or less bike.

-Ant.

[Tarzanman]

no doubt no doubt. But i was focusing on the basics. Learning how to leave steady, learning hills, down shifting, etc... His had an idle issue but it got better as the bike warmed. Say what you wish, cool if you think you're hilarious. I've driven 1850hp Vipers, i think I can grasp the bike. No need for you to act all cocky for no reason. I've been doing this for a day.

I'm not being cocky. I'm spitting the truth, ruth. Any rider worth their salt will tell you the same thing. Go ahead and drive your 1850hp Viper all you want. My grandma could take a 1850 hp Viper around a track and keep it in one piece... as cars require very little skill to operate. Completely irrelevant to riding a bike. Completely.

I'm not knocking your for being new. I'm knocking you for not being able to grasp/comprehend the information I have already given you. The fact that you even mention a car is evidence enough that you haven't even scratched the surface of piloting a motorcycle. Parking lot practice is fine as far as getting familiar with basic controls, but you haven't even scratched the surface.... and a 600 super-sport is a much more harsh taskmaster than a 500 or 250.

Anyways, if you're not doing yourself any favors as far as learning. Why should I be expected to?


New bikes start out a 69 bucks a month for 3 years for 8,900 or less bike.
-Ant.
Financing a bike is generally a bad idea. That payment plan in particular is ridiculous. You'll be upside down perpetually if you take that option.

Go ahead and do it. What do I know?

[David88vert]

I have to mostly agree with Tarzanman - driving a fast street car, and riding a bike are two vastly different things. I have no doubt that you will pick it up quickly, but it takes seat time.

36 months @ $69 is $2484. Assume that you put $1000 down on a new $8500 bike. After 3 years, you would have paid $3500, leaving $5000 more to pay at one of the following interest rates: 13%, 17%, 19%, or 23%. If you were ever late on a payment, even once, your rate would immediately jump to 29%. This is not a good deal. You would be much better off to buy a used beginner bike for the first year, then get a new bike that you can mostly pay cash for next year.

[AnthonyF]

~yawn~ Tarzan, you're a tool.

All you care about is trying to be top dog. Says so from your first post in response. You act like you are trying to get people NOT to ride. Say what you want to say, it's all good. I could give 2 shits about you. Thank god you stay in the motorcycle section. :goodjob:

David-your absolutely right and I have stated that. Dick head up there thinks he is telling me something I havent already stated. My comments are meant as a quick learning tool for me. He also claimed I didn't have the tools or knowledge to fix a bike. I OWN A FUCKING SHOP. lololz

I do appreciate everyone's .02¢ with the pros and cons, tips and tricks. :goodjob:

-Ant.

[Tarzanman]

No. Like I said. There are dozens of threads just like yours every year and 90% of them are written by dweebs who think they are special.

Hence my prediction here:
http://importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37774802&postcount=3
and here:
http://importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37775172&postcount=6

[AnthonyF]

So you pointing out the fact your an asshole to people for no reason is to make me feel like I'm not special? I'm glad you know me and have me down to a science. LOL.

I'm glad we have members like you who put people in their places.

-Ant.