Quick Question for People who do not believe in God

[Kevykev]

i know i know, another thread...but really

I've been wondering this for years but never really asked. I'm anxious to know your personal feedback on this question and will not judge you for it. I just want to know your view.

What logical explanation do you have for 'time'

In other words how do you explain what came before you, what came before your father, who created your grandfather and his father. Ok now hopefully you get the concept.

How do you explain the beginning and what happened before the beginning and what created that occurrence etc. etc.

just wondering not mocking anyone or anything even close, those who know me know that i'm the last person to judge someone based on their belief.

* I don't plan to bump this thread, i plan to just read the posts. * :)

[zimabog]

I don't know. It could have been an extraterrestrial origin, could have been 'a lightning strike'. A few years ago though I remember seeing a documentary where a scientist got close to creating a simple alive cell using electricity, and a mixture of elements that were in the atmosphere billions of years ago. I think the farthest he got was creating amino acids using the substances that is believed to have been present long long ago.

There are people who say "something cant come from nothing". and they are right, because to grow... to create new cells in your body, you need food intake... matter (just like how pregnant women eat a lot). we dont know how matter first formed single cells, could be through what i described in the above paragraph. and that matter could have come into existence... we dont know. could have always been in existence. could have been converted from suspected 'dark matter/energy'.

what us non-believers do believe though is.... that belief in a god is futile, no point. if there is such entity, it does not intervene. the universe is not effected by it. only the natural world and its properties are in the universe. We believe in nature, and whatever mysterious properties nature has is only a natural part of nature, a purely secular thing. If that is god, then why call it God? It is simply not.

is that an answer to your question or is it my view on why time is time?

to me time is simply the ∫ [an instant] dt

with on how it exists, no one knows.

[Maniacc]

Maniac's point of view on 'time.' Coming soon...

Work pwns.

[Julio]

So what do you believe in Kevin?

honestly, I believe there is something.. GOD to me is simply a name.. maybe that big thing thats out there that Im thinking that it could be..

Shit, I can call it "PENCIL"...

Im curious to know whats out there... But what a man wrote and talked about in times that communication didnt exist to me amd something another man with 2 nuts and a sack like me wrote on a piece of paper and made into a GOSPEL or a BIBLE, doesnt convince me.

I do believe there is something out there.. what it is...? No one really knows..

I mean, have a dead person confront you before and told you something we dont know..

pfftt...

[Big Baller]

Bigger question what is time, explain the relevance of time as it relates to god.

Who created god?

Why is time relevant?

Why is it that people get fixated with creation?

[ahabion]

Two words to solve all our problems. "The Matrix"

Geniuses for that whole storyline.

[dorin48]

I dont believe because there is no hard proof of anything. God, gods, mother nature... whatever. I guess I'm a hands on kinda guy and putting faith in something that comes from a book full of potholes and speculation isn't going to win me over. I used to be a very strong christian till I began to question and not find answers. Now I have faith in myself and that change happens and doesnt need an explanation. I truly believe that religion was used intentionally to control the masses at points in time. That is just how I feel about it. Also not to say I'm without morals though. I feel I can be a decent person without religion. I have a genuine compassion for others and I constantly go out of my way to help people. One of my very good friends is the son of a Pastor. He has wavering faith in his life as well but there is one aspect that keeps him going. The vastness and organization of the universe. He sees that as a clear sign of a higher being where I am impartial. Even if it was a higher being how do I know it was the christian god? The only thing that really puts me off is the pissing contest of religions and the segregation of people because of it. Otherwise praise on, be happy and dont hammer me about religion please. ;) Its human nature to catagorize and understand. When we come across anything that is beyond our scope we blame it on the "Giant Sky Wizard"

[C-loS109]

we came from something but i dont think that something its religiously related. religious and faith are something man created to shush the questions that cant be explain. thats what i think

[zimabog]

To me its funny how people use the whole "this cant happen by chance... look at the organization... its perfect" analysis to try to prove a higher power.

To those people:
Roll some dice.
Do you get a number each time you roll the dice?
They are usually different numbers for each roll right?
Is it a perfect chance that you rolled a number at all?

Even if things were different, there would still be something. It may not be life, it may be life that's way different than what you expect. But its something.

Because each side of the infinitesimal universe dice has a number.

Why do animals breathe oxygen? Because our atmosphere has oxygen.
Earth didnt form an atmosphere with the plan to have oxygen breathing animals. Animals should have developed nitrogen lungs instead of oxygen lungs anyway (our atmosphere is 80% nitrogen or so).

So yes, it is chance! You're just a number on the side of a dice! If things went differently you would be green and have wings and survived on dirt! And the religious green winged people would have said "oh its perfect chances".

[ahabion]

Im curious to know whats out there... But what a man wrote and talked about in times that communication didnt exist to me amd something another man with 2 nuts and a sack like me wrote on a piece of paper and made into a GOSPEL or a BIBLE, doesnt convince me.

The exchange (based on Biblical contents) could have possibly happened between God and Adam at the very beginning, in telling Adam how it all happened. Also the bible has a huge record of genealogy starting from Adam on through to Moses, etc... It is possible that records were kept (say clay tablets from the time of Adam) and passed down each generation until someone finally put it together on paper. (Most bible historian studies conclude it was Moses who put the book of Genesis together from those archived records.)

In the first chapter of Genesis, God also talks in the first person to Adam, suggesting that there was dialogue between human kind and God, prior to Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit. In chapter three, Adam and Eve "heard" God coming and they hid in the bushes... also suggesting that God walked among us.

I'm probably putting too much thought into this, so I'm going to stop here hahaha. :screwy:

[MrBoostedCRX]

i dont believe in god, i think shit happens for a reason, karma is fake too, fuck ghost all that shit, u are what u are

[Kevykev]

Julio I believe in God and his only son Jesus Christ. The bible is really something man, if you just put church and other organizations aside and just read certain chapters and verses you'd be surprise how what was written thousand of years ago still applies today.

Everyone is product of their environment, that's all I can really say. I won't come out and say "You guys are wrong." It's easy for people to NOT believe in God, we live in an evil world. It's easy to only believe in what we see or the concrete evidence, so i understand.

I just know that there's far more to this world we live in that what's in front of our eyes.

Faith does not come easy to everyone. Some people have to almost die or get a terminal illness to develop faith.

We all make our own decisions.

[D.Choe]

We are actually discussing this very subject in my philosophy class...

according to Aquinas’ First Cause Argument Summa Theologica, Question II, Third Article, it states that:

"In the world of sensible things we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several , or one only. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there by an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name God."

in class we broke down the premises and conclusions:
1. In the world of physical things there is an order of physical causes followed by effects.
2. It’s impossible for a thing to cause itself. (Conclusion)
3. For, if a thing caused itself, it would exist before it existed.
4. It’s impossible for a thing to exist before it exists.
5. The order of physical causes followed by effects cannot go back infinitely. (Conclusion)
6. Because in the order of physical causes followed by effects, each step exists only if the previous step exists.
7. If there is no cause, there is no effect.
8. Therefore, if there are no first causes in an order of physical causes followed by effects, there are no subsequent physical effects. (Conclusion)
9. There are subsequent physical causes followed by effects.
10. Therefore there is a first cause. (Conclusion)
11. Everyone calls the first cause God.
12. God exists. (Conclusion)

which still brings up the question(s) of: Was there a first cause of everything or is there an infinite series of causes?

I would also delve into William Paley's Natural Theology but it doesn't really pertain to time, but more on physical existence and its natural purpose and who made what; essentially it argues that God created everything therefore God exists

[tatodotcom]

Julio I believe in God and his only son Jesus Christ. The bible is really something man, if you just put church and other organizations aside and just read certain chapters and verses you'd be surprise how what was written thousand of years ago still applies today.

Everyone is product of their environment, that's all I can really say. I won't come out and say "You guys are wrong." It's easy for people to NOT believe in God, we live in an evil world. It's easy to only believe in what we see or the concrete evidence, so i understand.

I just know that there's far more to this world we live in that what's in front of our eyes.

Faith does not come easy to everyone. Some people have to almost die or get a terminal illness to develop faith.


We all make our own decisions.



How can you say the bible is something special? It is merely a combination of FICTIONAL stories and tales written THOUSANDS of years before it. Most people don't understand where the basis of their religion comes from, which I find very funny (the bible). We see the SAME EXACT "birth of Jesus", virgin getting pregnant, a global flood, etc in almost every piece of literature written BEFORE the bible. So what makes the bible so different when almost every single scripture is a combination of older fictional stories (i.e. Gilgamesh)? Its amazing that by just taking a simple world literature class you see how the bible is such a joke it's not even funny. The same exact "special" stories and scriptures that people live their lives by can be originally found in many pieces of literature written before the bible!


As for the origin of life a previous poster was talking about, there have been cells recreated with basic atoms and compounds that were original on earth. Hundreds of experiments using just Nitrogen, Carbon, and ammonia, with a source of heat (either a hot volcanic rock or lighting strike) have created cell membranes. These cell membranes can then uptake pieces of their environment (simple RNA strands which is the basis of all life), and hence you have your first living thing. As the cytoplasm expands we have fragments and eventually specialization of the cell, which then developed into trillions of living things. So yes, life can and has been proven to be recreated by using very simple elements that were present on the beginning of earth. I just don't understand how people can think we are something special when we have exactly 99.99% the same makeup as a cell of yeast. Is it a miraculous thing and event about our creation? Yes, but I don't know why people base there lives off a story that was based off previous stories when we are essentially all the same.

As for the original question, what happened before the earth? Or what happened before that? You could ask that question after every person here responds, we don't know...you could just keep going back and back saying well what before that? I do believe in "god" whatever that may stand for. Something that we do not understand and that is totally foreign to us had to occur, maybe something was just "there"....we don't and I don't believe we will ever know. Our minds can't understand things just being there, we need to know how it was created or what happened before and I don't think we will ever be able to go beyond this confined thinking.

[D.Choe]

As for the original question, what happened before the earth? Or what happened before that? You could ask that question after every person here responds, we don't know...you could just keep going back and back saying well what before that? I do believe in "god" whatever that may stand for. Something that we do not understand and that is totally foreign to us had to occur, maybe something was just "there"....we don't and I don't believe we will ever know. Our minds can't understand things just being there, we need to know how it was created or what happened before and I don't think we will ever be able to go beyond this confined thinking.

werd. agnostically agreed.

[zimabog]

d.choe, your Aquinas’ First Cause Argument has made some large assumptions to bridge the gaps in the logic. Assumptions that can never be proven. And of course its going to have that conclusion since he was a medieval priest!

it assumes that there was no cause to the 'First cause'... hence a god. but fails to see that its possible for their to be no first cause, simple an infinite series of causes. in his argument he mentions this but simply says "not possible".

[Norlan]

Just try to explain it with science and accept the fact that we're living on the earth, we are simply created by dusts of stars

[zimabog]

i cross out "in god we trust" on all my money, its a defect that hasnt been corrected since 1956, so i try to help the mint out as best i can to fix the defect.

[slow_hatch]

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/Christianity-Atheism.jpg

[RL...]

At the end of the day does it matter what we believe in or how things happened?

No.

We all still work, go to school, and carry on with our lives. It's not like anyone can change what happened, so stop worrying about how things came to be and just focus on the present and the future, because those are the only "times" that you can change.

It doesn't matter if you're christian, buddhist , athiest, etc...either way you should try to be the best person you can be and treat other how you want to be treated. People miss the big picture....:no:

[Deke]

such a joke it's not even funny

This statement (without pulling any of the subject matter in) made me lol.

That is all.