Is there anyone not concerned with the economy?

[4dmin]

Is there anyone not concerned with the economy?

We keep hearing about buyer confidence... well people are afraid to spend the little they have b/c of how shaking everything is. Spend your money today and get your pink slip tomorrow. Very interesting times we have right now. Did anyone else notice the new Hyundai's new program they'll let you return your car if you loose your job http://www.hyundaiusa.com/financing/HyundaiAssurance/HyundaiAssurance.aspx :goodjob: . Good marketing idea.

I know its pretty hard to find job let alone a good one right now. I just find it funny the people who rather go in debt than take a step backwards to pay your bills. Just my :2cents: whats your take?

[blackboi50]

yea man i havent bought anything past like 400 dollars in about 6 months now!!!!

i havent even gone on trips like i used to....i used to be in miami at least twice a year and my home country St. Lucia like once every two years......havent gone anywhere in a year and a half now!!! :(.....1

[blacknightteg]

im concerned with it. but at the same time, i have hope. i mean i HOPE we will pull out of this rut. yeah it will take a while, but maybe we will. hopefully

[blackboi50]

im concerned with it. but at the same time, i have hope. i mean i HOPE we will pull out of this rut. yeah it will take a while, but maybe we will. hopefully

well i believe we always will.........we have in the past......i dunno how long it took with other recessions but im about tired of this one!!!.....1

[Sammich]

yea i'm highly concerned...waiting for this job at advance auto so i can get started there to live a little more comfortably and pay down this CC

i see a townhouse right now for $80 that would probably perfect...but i dont want to even try to get it because i'm scared i'm gona lose my job

[bigdare23]

It's not really hurting the way I am living right not, but it's killing my current job hurt. I'm trying to relocate to NC, but the job market in my field has greatly decrease over the past few months.

[Sammich]

It's not really hurting the way I am living right not, but it's killing my current job hurt. I'm trying to relocate to NC, but the job market in my field has greatly decrease over the past few months.

I FORGOT WHAT FIELD OF ENGINEERING UR IN...REFRESH MY MEMORY..

[blacknightteg]

well i believe we always will.........we have in the past......i dunno how long it took with other recessions but im about tired of this one!!!.....1


the really sucky thing is that i really feel like its on us. if we the consumers dont get confident again, it never will. the government is trying everything they can, atleast it sems like to me, to try and get everything better again. to me, its on all of us. i mean if we dont spend, nothings going to happen. the government injecting money into the economy and business is only going to help so much. the businesses wont stay afloat after they spend money on operations and product if we dont buy anything. and i mean if we dont buy anything it makes the businesses loose money, which makes people loose jobs. which makes people not spend. i dunno, i think people are to scared to do anything.

[bigdare23]

Mechanical

[Sammich]

the really sucky thing is that i really feel like its on us. if we the consumers dont get confident again, it never will. the government is trying everything they can, atleast it sems like to me, to try and get everything better again. to me, its on all of us. i mean if we dont spend, nothings going to happen. the government injecting money into the economy and business is only going to help so much. the businesses wont stay afloat after they spend money on operations and product if we dont buy anything. and i mean if we dont buy anything it makes the businesses loose money, which makes people loose jobs. which makes people not spend. i dunno, i think people are to scared to do anything.

ITS NOT ALL ON US EITHER..THE BANKS ARE BEING STINGY W/ THEIR MONEY. THEY DONT WANT TO LOAN OUT MONEY AND THEY HAVE ALREADY HAD THEIR BAILOUT, PRIMARILY TO HELP US, BUT THEY STILL WOULDNT LEND THE MONEY. THEN ALL THE SCANDELS THAT BROKE OUT, AND ALSO THE JOB LAYOFFS..SO YEA. ITS ON US, BUT ALSO THE LENDERS

WAT PARTS OF MECHANICAL WERE U GOING INTO?

[AnthonyF]

i am actually not worried about it. In my industry people have to fix their cars or they have nothing at all. My business has been pretty steady and the body shop next door always sends us work.

-Ant.

[blacknightteg]

ITS NOT ALL ON US EITHER..THE BANKS ARE BEING STINGY W/ THEIR MONEY. THEY DONT WANT TO LOAN OUT MONEY AND THEY HAVE ALREADY HAD THEIR BAILOUT, PRIMARILY TO HELP US, BUT THEY STILL WOULDNT LEND THE MONEY. THEN ALL THE SCANDELS THAT BROKE OUT, AND ALSO THE JOB LAYOFFS..SO YEA. ITS ON US, BUT ALSO THE LENDERS

WAT PARTS OF MECHANICAL WERE U GOING INTO?


i know that but what im saying is that if they saw that we were going to start spending again. then they might start loaning again. if were not spending money on any product then why give us money from a loan that we wont probably pay that back either.

[Sammich]

*NINJA'D*YEA I FIGURED AUTO MECHANICS WILL STILL DO ALRIGHT..CUZ PEOPLE WONT BUY NEW CARS NOW..THEY ARE GONA SINK MONEY INTO FIXING OLD ONES

[Sammich]

i know that but what im saying is that if they saw that we were going to start spending again. then they might start loaning again. if were not spending money on any product then why give us money from a loan that we wont probably pay that back either.

I HEAR YA I FEEL WHERE U WERE COMING FROM

[AnthonyF]

*NINJA'D*YEA I FIGURED AUTO MECHANICS WILL STILL DO ALRIGHT..CUZ PEOPLE WONT BUY NEW CARS NOW..THEY ARE GONA SINK MONEY INTO FIXING OLD ONES

Exactly. Most people arent buying new cars b/c they cost more to repair and maintain than older cars. Typically, most older cars 90's get better gas mileage than these heavy automobiles around now.

Think how great they have made these new engines to make 25mpg with a 3500lb car. Think if they brought that car down to 2900 lbs and removed all the extra weight (seat warmers, seat adjusters, electronic tilt, 37 air bags, etc...

People have to fix cars, there's no ands, ifs, or buts about it.

-Ant.

[ksniperfox]

everythings fine on my front. hasnt effected me one bit.

my roommates got laid off/hours cut. i bought a new motorcycle and a s2000 and started modding it.

eh, it effected me one tiny bit. my cable bill went up $5. rofl.

[Sammich]

Exactly. Most people arent buying new cars b/c they cost more to repair and maintain than older cars. Typically, most older cars 90's get better gas mileage than these heavy automobiles around now.

Think how great they have made these new engines to make 25mpg with a 3500lb car. Think if they brought that car down to 2900 lbs and removed all the extra weight (seat warmers, seat adjusters, electronic tilt, 37 air bags, etc...

People have to fix cars, there's no ands, ifs, or buts about it.

-Ant.

YEA...I MEAN..MY FATHER IN LAW HAS SEEN A DIFFERENCE..HE'S NOT AS BUSY AS HE USED TO BE, BUT TO BE TRUTHFUL, I THINK IF HE WASNT SO PICKY ON JOBS HE'D HAVE MORE JOBS. BUT HE'S GOT EVERYTHING PAID OFF EXCEPT THE NEW IMPALA SS HE JUST GOT. SO HE'S FINE LOL. LIVING ON THE HIGH HOG W/ THOUSANDS SAVED CRYING POOR MOUTH:lmfao:

[Atlblkz06]

Eventually EVERYONE will be affected. Crime is rising and no one is really happy.

Since this is a consumer economy - we have to start spending again for the econ to improve, but it cant improve unless we spend. Of course we cant spend if we dont have jobs... you see the pattern.

[4dmin]

Gov doesn't seem to be doing enough... we need some type of stimulus bill, but limit the spending to what will actually jump start our economy (infrastructure upgrades = 40+% of unemployed construction workers can work)... spending money to research bird migrations isn't priority unless it is putting 10,000's to work.

I think what disturbs me the most the lack of help Washington is... right/left are still trying to figure out who is right instead of what is best for us. I think it is a trickle down effect. If they get their shit in order then the masses will follow suit. 1 Trillion dollars really isn't alot considering we have spent that basically on a war that hasn't brought us any return on the investment.

[Sammich]

1 Trillion dollars really isn't alot considering we have spent that basically on a war that hasn't brought us any return on the investment.

THATS WHAT I'M SAYING, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WORRY ABOUT PUTTING THE COUNTRY INTO 'MORE DEBT' WHEN YALL ARE THE ONES THAT PUT US IN WAR, SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON WEAPONS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TIME TO GET US BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK, YOU WANT TO STUDDER STEP. YOU WERENT STUDDER STEPPING WHEN YOU SENT JOHNNY OVERSEAS TO GET BLOWN UP.

[blacknightteg]

its always goin to be a stale mate when wishing the government would do something. they will barely ever do the right thing the first time.

[Sammich]

CUZ THEY HOES

[blacknightteg]

na there just greedy sons of bitches that are out to get money from teh lobbyists that are supporting their stay in congress. i think thats one thing that needs to happen is lobbying as far as big corporations needs to stop.

[Sammich]

YEA WHAT YOU SAID LOL. I'M JUST NOW FOLLOWING THE NEWS AND WHAT NOT MAN..SO I'M NOT THAT DEEP I AINT GONA LIE

[blacknightteg]

its the truth. the greed needs to be taken out of washington. fucking if we dont ever do anything about, this country WILL be run by corporations.

[Atlblkz06]

this country IS run by corporations.

Corrected. :(

[Sammich]

yea...greed is owning this country mucho. big corporations w/ their bonuses that most people dont even see in a year is ridiculous...

[SLOWR/T]

Im in flooring and believe it or not we have been doing pretty good. Considering the housing is in the shitter

[blacknightteg]

Corrected. :(


that is true. i think it the long run if this country doesnt end up turning around. its gunna take some SERIOUS change.

[Sammich]

i want to tell the govt

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5568/1205532126957lw3.jpg

and eat they kids

[blacknightteg]

lol. i tell ya what needs to happen is tat there needs to be like a cap on how long a fuckin person can run in congress. a younger generation needs to start being in the government. i swear it seems like half the old farts in the congress barelly know wtf is going on.

[Sammich]

they dont cuz they arent affected. nobody around them is affected, so they dont care, just like all them ol bishes that drive..they dont care

[blacknightteg]

it just sucks that they are are helping destroy our country. we as a people will do what we have to do to get our country back on track. right now our way is to not spend as much as we used to. but to have bad examples as people like them (not saying every one of them) hurts the moral and our economy, in my opinion.

[ash7]

THATS WHAT I'M SAYING, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WORRY ABOUT PUTTING THE COUNTRY INTO 'MORE DEBT' WHEN YALL ARE THE ONES THAT PUT US IN WAR, SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON WEAPONS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TIME TO GET US BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK, YOU WANT TO STUDDER STEP. YOU WERENT STUDDER STEPPING WHEN YOU SENT JOHNNY OVERSEAS TO GET BLOWN UP.
once again, Sammich uses his keyboard with the broken caps lock key. I have an old one you can have (for free!) if you want man.

...how did i know this would have turned into yet another George Bush Haterade thread? lol

-jonathan

[AnthonyF]

ok...this is what I dont get....

You dont like Bush..fine...whatever who cares.

But you talk shit about our troops who WANT to go to war. If they didn't WANT to go they WOULDNT have signed up. I would have signed up too but I had other shit to tend to first. They knew the consequences and they were FINE with it.

-Ant.

[Got Milk?]

Economy is just fine.

[TIGERJC]

ok...this is what I dont get....

You dont like Bush..fine...whatever who cares.

But you talk shit about our troops who WANT to go to war. If they didn't WANT to go they WOULDNT have signed up. I would have signed up too but I had other shit to tend to first. They knew the consequences and they were FINE with it.

-Ant.
I don' think many wanted to actually go to war, but they did want to serve this country who so happens to need them to go to war.

[Vteckidd]

THATS WHAT I'M SAYING, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WORRY ABOUT PUTTING THE COUNTRY INTO 'MORE DEBT' WHEN YALL ARE THE ONES THAT PUT US IN WAR, SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON WEAPONS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TIME TO GET US BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK, YOU WANT TO STUDDER STEP. YOU WERENT STUDDER STEPPING WHEN YOU SENT JOHNNY OVERSEAS TO GET BLOWN UP.


LOL again, we will not see the benefits of the war for YEARS TO COME. How many times do i have to say that. ITs funny the people saying "we got nothing out of that war" are the same people saying "LETS GO TO AFGHANISTAN!!"

or

"we only went to iraq over oil"

What have we gotten for our money in Iraq? How bad you think its gonna be when all the gov contracting jobs that employ HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS go away cause the war is over and we are pulling out.

where you think people like Nyteryder are gonna go when they come back and we have 9% unemployment?

You guys act like the only people over there are wielding a gun.

Im worried about the economy cause there seems to be a more prominent "doomsday scenario" with this recession than any other. Im sick to death of Congress and our GOVT, both sides of the aisle, i see a massive civil uprising in our future. SOmething along the lines of 1776

[willum14pb]

there's blood on the streets. people are losing jobs. the economy's going to shit. and im not worried one bit. in fact im making more money than ever. gotta love it.

[willum14pb]

I don' think many wanted to actually go to war, but they did want to serve this country who so happens to need them to go to war.

If you signed up after 9/11 you knew you were going to war. Anyone who's in now and says different is just lying or a damn idiot.

[silversol]

LOL again, we will not see the benefits of the war for YEARS TO COME. How many times do i have to say that. ITs funny the people saying "we got nothing out of that war" are the same people saying "LETS GO TO AFGHANISTAN!!"

or

"we only went to iraq over oil"

What have we gotten for our money in Iraq? How bad you think its gonna be when all the gov contracting jobs that employ HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS go away cause the war is over and we are pulling out.

where you think people like Nyteryder are gonna go when they come back and we have 9% unemployment?

You guys act like the only people over there are wielding a gun.

Im worried about the economy cause there seems to be a more prominent "doomsday scenario" with this recession than any other. Im sick to death of Congress and our GOVT, both sides of the aisle, i see a massive civil uprising in our future. SOmething along the lines of 1776





finally something we can kinda agree on! i see a very big uprising if things dont get better with the us economy.

[SuperChicken]

finally something we can kinda agree on! i see a very big uprising if things dont get better with the us economy.

AND the people we have to trust to make it happen. Partisan bickering MUST end, and serving the needs of the POPULATION must become the first priority in Washington. If it doesn't happen soon, rebellion will ensue!

Oh, and Sammich....I also have a keyboard with a working caps lock that I'll happily donate to ya!:taun:

[silversol]

AND the people we have to trust to make it happen. Partisan bickering MUST end, and serving the needs of the POPULATION must become the first priority in Washington. If it doesn't happen soon, rebellion will ensue!

Oh, and Sammich....I also have a keyboard with a working caps lock that I'll happily donate to ya!:taun:

+1 :goodjob:

[redrumracer]

im not concerned about it. although i didnt have a job to lose nor do i have a job now. sooooooo nothing has changed.

[B18c1Turboed]

I think they should give everyone free rent and mortgage for 6 months. And they just let us pick up in 6 months like nothing!!!!

THe things i could do with 2,000 more a month for 6 months!!!!


If not screw it, im still spending the same!!!

[BanginJimmy]

After nearly 2 years of looking for a job I finally have an interview with Lockheed in a couple weeks so I am hoping to see my financial situation improving.


As far as the rest of the economy goes, it rides just as much on consumer confidance than i does on earnings reports. Obama's scare tactics are doing nothing but hurting the overall economy. People that are making money right now are 'hiding it under their matress'. The people that are not making money are getting deeper in debt. The people in the middle are paying down any debt they can instead of buying.

You will never have confidence in Wall St. when you have Washington and the MSM blaming everything on them. You will never have confidence in Washington until they quit with the political games. The "stimulous" plan is a great example. Nearly half of this bill is wasted spending if you want to think of stimulous. Some of it is good legislation, but it is being added in the wrong place. 10's of billions of dollars are going to areas that could NEVER create a single job. Such as the 150M for honey bee insurance or the ~5B for community groups.

As for the Bush haters, I actually think the war in Iraq is even moer important now than it was when the economy was strong. It is keeping half a million americans employed and making damn good money. Most of that money is being spent right here in the US. Bring back those people and we will have an immediate influx of ~400k people with no job to go back to.

[Arm&hammer]

Im in flooring and believe it or not we have been doing pretty good. Considering the housing is in the shitter

your lucky, my dad has lost a lot of work even working for the military.
he has to travel to other states and work 2 times harder to get a shitty salary.

[01CDMLUDER]

I think one thing that hurt the economy that nobody mentions is all the illegal alliens that came to america and worked and sent most of their money back to their country. I'm sure that made some what of an impact on the economy. I'm not saying that if I was in their position that I would live with 10 people and send my money back home I'm just saying I'm sure it hurt the economy. But the thing that really pisses me off is all these companies that sent jobs overseas instead of providing jobs here.

[§treet_§peed]

word of advice, here soon the gov't is gonna impose Martial Law soon. I think, myself, that it is coming very soon.

[quickdodge®]

Is there anyone not concerned with the economy?

I'm honestly not. I own my house outright. I own all four cars outright. Between my grandfather, Mom and I, we own six other houses outright. Plus multiple other "cash cows" that we have. Later, QD.

[stephen]

After nearly 2 years of looking for a job I finally have an interview with Lockheed in a couple weeks so I am hoping to see my financial situation improving.

congratulations on the lockheed deal.


As far as the rest of the economy goes, it rides just as much on consumer confidance than i does on earnings reports. Obama's scare tactics are doing nothing but hurting the overall economy. People that are making money right now are 'hiding it under their matress'. The people that are not making money are getting deeper in debt. The people in the middle are paying down any debt they can instead of buying.

You will never have confidence in Wall St. when you have Washington and the MSM blaming everything on them. You will never have confidence in Washington until they quit with the political games. The "stimulous" plan is a great example. Nearly half of this bill is wasted spending if you want to think of stimulous. Some of it is good legislation, but it is being added in the wrong place. 10's of billions of dollars are going to areas that could NEVER create a single job. Such as the 150M for honey bee insurance or the ~5B for community groups.

you're half right...the finger pointing and "scare tactics" come from ALL directions though. FOX news is a perfect example...they completely reject ANY FORM of stimulus plan period. senate/house republicans feel like a "poor" stimulus plan will RUIN AMERICAN, which is also a scare tactic...much like obama's political scare tactics. our problems are the result of partisanship...bottom line. wall st. is just as bad...we had a bad run tuesday all because washington "introduced an idea" and wallstreet felt like it didn't contain enough information.

oh, and that 150M for honey bee insurance ISN'T WASTEFUL. honeybees are a necessity for our food production (pollination). i've seen specials on discovery on how the bees are just dying off at ridiculous rates. imagine how many bee-keepers we have that're losing their bee farms (which, are SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS), and what would happen if bees just died out in america... instead of spending 150M to insure the bee farms, we'd be spending 150M to buy a box of oranges.

the bill does have some pork in it...i can't deny that, but it's not NEARLY as wasteful as a lot of people are making it seem. top economist have said that it's 70-80 percent effective, which is damn good considering it's a product of OUR GOVERNMENT.


As for the Bush haters, I actually think the war in Iraq is even moer important now than it was when the economy was strong. It is keeping half a million americans employed and making damn good money. Most of that money is being spent right here in the US. Bring back those people and we will have an immediate influx of ~400k people with no job to go back to.

the war is important, but i don't think it's keeping our economy strong. take into consideration what we're spending. we're funding something we can't afford (and with no financial gain), in order to maintain jobs....what good is that? what happens when we get ourselves into so much debt that our money is practically useless? all of those people making "damn good money" now have it for no damn good reason. war can be profitable, but so can diplomacy. pulling all of our troops out of the REGION may not be the best idea, but we definitely need to revamp the whole "operation."

[BanginJimmy]

congratulations on the lockheed deal.

Thanks, I just hope I get the job




you're half right...the finger pointing and "scare tactics" come from ALL directions though. FOX news is a perfect example...they completely reject ANY FORM of stimulus plan period. senate/house republicans feel like a "poor" stimulus plan will RUIN AMERICAN, which is also a scare tactic...much like obama's political scare tactics. our problems are the result of partisanship...bottom line. wall st. is just as bad...we had a bad run tuesday all because washington "introduced an idea" and wallstreet felt like it didn't contain enough information.

I know the scare tactic come from all sides, but I agree with FOX and I dont like a bill that enlarges govt covertly by calling it stimulous. MSNBC can also be knocked on, I was flipping through channels and one of the talking heads did his Bill O'Rielly impersonation and was berrating a Harvard economist. He, the talking head, said that people working for a sucessful branch of a business, they used currency trading as an example, should not get their bonus if the company received bailout money. The economist came back with the fact that most of those traders work on an ~ 20k salary and really make their money through bonuses. The talking head came back and said that didnt matter, that no one should receive a bonus if the company gets bailout money. He ended the segment by saying he believed the banking industry should be nationalized.


oh, and that 150M for honey bee insurance ISN'T WASTEFUL. honeybees are a necessity for our food production (pollination). i've seen specials on discovery on how the bees are just dying off at ridiculous rates. imagine how many bee-keepers we have that're losing their bee farms (which, are SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS), and what would happen if bees just died out in america... instead of spending 150M to insure the bee farms, we'd be spending 150M to buy a box of oranges.

I know about the issue with bees dying, but 150M in insurance does nothing for them. Now if that 150M went to a research grant to find the cause of it I would have no problems with it. Again though, this is not stimulous. This is ordinary spending and should be addressed as such.

Just like the PEL grant money should be addressed as ordinary spending and several dozen other projects. Most of these are good projects that help Americas future, they are simply added to the wrong peice of legislation.

You didnt mention the ~5B for community groups though, and especially a certain community group under investigation by the feds and about 15 states for voter fraud.


the bill does have some pork in it...i can't deny that, but it's not NEARLY as wasteful as a lot of people are making it seem. top economist have said that it's 70-80 percent effective, which is damn good considering it's a product of OUR GOVERNMENT.

That 70% number is completely baseless according to most people. Obama doesnt even know where it comes from. I dont know of any top economist that said it would be 70-80% sucessful. Only Biden said that. The CBO on the other hand said it would result in a .1-.3% drop in GDP by 2012 and would create less than half of the jobs claimed by Obama.




the war is important, but i don't think it's keeping our economy strong. take into consideration what we're spending. we're funding something we can't afford (and with no financial gain), in order to maintain jobs....what good is that? what happens when we get ourselves into so much debt that our money is practically useless? all of those people making "damn good money" now have it for no damn good reason. war can be profitable, but so can diplomacy. pulling all of our troops out of the REGION may not be the best idea, but we definitely need to revamp the whole "operation."

I dont think the war is keeping the economy strong, but it just might be enough to prevent that final piece of straw from falling onto the camels back.

What happens when our money is useless? Easy, there will be some form of revolution. I dont know if it will result in massive bloodshed, but it will result in a complete re-organization of our country. In the last 30 years liberal groups have basicly voided many provisions of the Constitution. I dont mean by enacting laws that conflicr with them either. I mean that liberl judges have "interpreted" it to something that it never was. 1 case that immediately comes to mind is the case where child rapists could be sentenced to death. The Supreme Court shot it down saying it violated the 8th Amendment. Justice Kennedy went on to say that a "national consensus" determined that the sentence was too severe. What does the supreme court have to do with the census? They are supposed to interpret the Constitution, not use their position as a tool to advance their agenda.



Sorry for being a bit long winded.

[4dmin]

People defending the war to employ 400,000 people is just dumb. Do the numbers we are spending over 12 BILLION dollars a month that is a cost of 30,000 per person per month. I hope you feel we are getting our money's worth b/c we have 2x that amount in the construction industry on the unemployment line.

My answer is to make Iraq pay us back w/ Oil, shift efforts to Afghanistan lay waste to the mountains and show off our WMDs. Bring the Military back and put them to work securing our borders. 12+Billion a month can go towards our stimulus plan.

[§treet_§peed]

^ good point.

[§treet_§peed]

but our leaders are to pussy to use a few big bombs like nukes. also america is a big pussy now. fuck peace. that will never happen as long a humans are around. people that think its possible should seriously stfu.

[Ruiner]

A long, but good read:
http://market-ticker.org/archives/783-Obama-The-Market-Is-Issuing-You-A-WARNING.html

Obama: The Market Is Issuing You A WARNING

Put the kids away - this is not going to be pleasant.
I'm done Mr. President.
You stood in front of the American Public and lied through your damn teeth. You claim that America faces a "catastrophe" if we don't pass your bill - but its not YOUR BILL, its Pelosi's and Reid's bill - a bill full of PORK and BS.
I'm tired of the lies, America is tired of the lies, and we the people are not going to sit still for it any longer.
You promised us change. This is what we got for "change":
Your Treasury Secretary, Geithner, cheated on his taxes. He was caught. He then failed to pay the other two years of tax for the same thing he got caught doing, until you told him you wanted him to be the tax collector. But that's not the worst of it. No, the worst part is that when Bear Stearns got in trouble he, as the head of the NY Fed, knew full well that The Federal Reserve intended to open the discount window to investment banks THE VERY NEXT DAY and yet this fact was NOT disclosed to Bear Stearns, forcing them into a merger they would not have otherwise consummated. THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS LOST THEIR JOBS AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF TIM GEITHNER'S AND BEN BERNANKE'S INTENTIONAL CONCEALMENT OF THIS MATERIAL FACT. Here is the quote from the NY Times:

"But the night that Bear signed the original bid, the Fed opened what's known as the discount window to companies like Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers - oh, yes, and to Bear, too. Except that the Fed didn't tell Bear that it planned to open the window when it was signing its deal with JPMorgan.
Had Bear known it might have access to the discount window - a crucial source of liquidity - it might have been able to hold out for a couple more days or at least had enough leverage to seek a higher bid. But the Fed clearly preferred the original bid."

You WISH The Internet wasn't around to hold your butt over the pot of hot oil and dunk you on this one. Sorry Mr. President, NO DICE.
GEITHNER MUST RESIGN NOW; HE IS UNFIT TO HOLD THE OFFICE TO WHICH YOU APPOINTED HIM. PERIOD.
We dealt with George W. Bush playing "disaster capitalism" with us for more than eighteen months. Now you're doing it. Nice try, no donut. I have been writing for close to two years in The Market Ticker about the fact that The Fed, Treasury and the former administration were directly responsible for this mess through various machinations such as "23A Exemption Letters", Paulson's entreaties to remove leverage limits and the OCC's move (including asserting federal preemption in court!) to preempt state regulation of subprime and ALT-A mortgages. You've put forward plans to address exactly none of these frauds and yet they are the root of the problem.
Further, you can't claim to "not know" because as a Senator your office got copies of my petitions, faxes, and other communications. Your constituents from Illinois asked me to send thousands of petition signatures over those two years, and you did get them. Don't run a grand line of BS on America that this all "came out of nowhere" and "it was all Bush's fault." That's nice political theatre but it is also a grand lie.
America has a confidence problem with the Capital Markets. So does the rest of the world. That problem exists because of the outright fraud and idiocy that has been undertaken and permitted by all levels of our government, including the Executive. These frauds included knowingly using bad model data to "rate" securities, shopping ratings, shorting securities you're selling to your own customers in the next room (without telling them you think they're overvalued, of course) and getting "23A Exemptions" so you can lever up your exposure to failing parts of your business, thereby creating systemic risk where it did not already exist. Go have a look Mr. Obama - there are literally dozens of "23A Exemption" letters now on file with The Fed. Virtually all of these institutions, if not all, have either failed or received public support, yet exemption from safety and soundness banking regulation has made their plight worse and their drain on the taxpayer more onerous. You have done exactly nothing to address this outrage nor is there any reason to believe you will.
These "exotic financing products" were not bought Mr. President - they were sold by so-called "professionals" who knew full well that the borrower could never complete the original term as contracted. Yet the firms who packaged up these securities and sold them knowing this fact remain in business, their executives remain in the corner office and they siphoned off $70 billion in bonuses from the first half of the TARP. You have done exactly nothing to disgorge those funds nor have you directed the FBI to bring indictments or brought pressure to remove these individuals from their positions. You have not revoked one banking charter from any of these firms despite the fact that these practices are the precise reason we are here.
These same firms have literal trillions in off-balance-sheet securitizations that remain undisclosed and opaque. You have taken no step to force their consolidation back onto the balance sheet, nor have you announced any intention to do so. These conduits and SIVs are literal ticking financial nuclear weapons and they will explode as defaults continue to increase.
You continue to pretend that these firms "need some help" and "need a backstop." Increasingly it is becoming clear to market observers such as Nouriel Roubini, FT's Wolf, myself and others that the fact is that these firms are and have been bankrupt and you are conspiring with others to intentionally deceive the public by refusing to demand that regulators and examiners to go in, do their jobs, and report the true capital levels of these companies - an act that would result in their immediate seizure by the FDIC.
You believe you can pull the wool over Americans' eyes with your new "TARP II" and "TALF" programs. The truth is that you intend to use Treasury and Fed credit to allow hedge funds to make obscene profits while essentially all risk of loss is born by the taxpayer, shifting off these bankrupt firm's liabilities TO US while the executives and firms continue to operate!
This is yet another outrage and is nothing more than an attempt to shift the liabilities of BANKRUPT institutions that have become insolvent by their own hand and acts to The American Taxpayer.
Now let me explain what is almost certain to happen if you are foolish enough to let Taxcheat Timmy pull this garbage.
See, these assets really are trash. Yeah, right now they are kicking off cash flow. For now. But they're impaired and while their coupon will pay for a while they will ultimately default on their face value and recovery is pennies (and in the case of synthetics, zero) when they do.
So what happens here is that you provide 95% non-recourse financing. Sir Hedge Fund buys a buttload of this garbage having only 5-10% of the face at risk, and that's all they need to put up as well, since the government is going to provide the financing - as a "no recourse" loan (presumably very cheaply.) They get a 6-7% coupon which means that in one year they're covered, and in two they're making money like a madman, up 200% or more on their original risk capital.
But what happens when these instruments default?
Treasury is sitting on several trillion in backstops and financing of loans to cover "assets" that are in fact worth zero. It winds up eating the entire face value, while the Hedge Funds have made off with all of the coupon money in the meantime!
The risk here is that Treasury is backed into a corner due to ramping yields and perhaps even inability to roll over this debt at all and we find ourselves forced into immediate cash accounting as a nation. This in turn causes the instantaneous cessation of Social Security and Medicare payments, as that is the only bucket big enough to cover the shortfall.
Do you really want to go down that road Mr. President, because that is precisely what's at the end of it, and it may be only a year or two out!
If you think nobody beyond your vaunted administration has figured it out YOU ARE WRONG.
If you think Americans will pay taxes to an institution that intends to knowingly allow Hedge Funds to make hundreds of billions of dollars in profit while sticking the taxpayer with upwards of $2 trillion in losses and destroying all entitlements in a few years' time I suggest you have a mental examination and get your lithium dose adjusted.
Your approval rating and in fact American's tolerance of this blatant fraud, theft and chicanery is about to go straight down the toilet.
If you have an interest in having a successful Presidency (not to mention any chance of a second term or even a stable, sound America to be President of) you must immediately do all of the following:

* Revoke ALL of the so-called "23A Exemptions." Bernanke issued them, you need to direct him to revoke them. Safety and soundness of the banking system must come before any one firm or group of firms. There are literally hundreds of banks that are perfectly sound. There are also a bunch of big campaign contributing banks that are bankrupt and have been for the last eighteen months. Americans know this - the secret is out and its time to quit LYING.
* Send in the examiners. Yeah, I know, you're talking about "stress tests". Uh huh. Let's have those examinations now and forevermore in the future be public information. If a bank wants to operate under our laws and have the privilege of fractional reserve banking, they can open their books and examinations at all times to the public. Period.
* No more conduits, no more SIVs, no more games. If your "assets" are worth 20 cents on the dollar today that is their price. If that makes you insolvent then you are - period. We have an FDIC and we have the authority to "cram down" failed institutions for a reason. Use it.
* Send in the cops. The actions of major institutions up and down the line since this crisis began in mid 2007 and in the years leading up to it is at best grossly negligent and at worst felonious. We the people are done with being the patsies of a handful of thieves and frauds enabled by the 535 crooks in our Capitol. STOP IT NOW and start jailing the crooks or be judged as one of the felons. Your choice.

We are approaching yet another market implosion just like the one in September and October.
While it may come today or tomorrow, I wouldn't take that bet. In fact I expect that people will "rejoice" that you didn't wipe every common stockholder's equity stake in firms like Citibank, Bank America and Goldman Sachs - even though you should. Because I expected you to do the wrong thing, I actually bought some Citibank stock a short while ago. Were you to do the right thing my position would be worthless. It should be worthless. I'll bet its not - at least not immediately (and that I'll make a profit as a consequence of your idiocy.)
When and if this dislocation comes, however, it will destroy what is left of the American Banking System, it will expose that Bernanke has over one trillion dollars of garbage on The Fed's Balance Sheet, and that in turn will destroy the international market for United States Treasury Debt.
In the best case we wind up like Japan and have a bunch of zombies sucking up capital and doing nothing of value for our economy. In the worst case we get much higher yields in the bond market and the near-immediate bankruptcy of hundreds of midsize and larger firms, including virtually all financial firms in the S&P 500 and DOW, along with all major multinationals that have a captive financing function.
The Government cannot backstop it all. If you try the government fails outright. The market is bigger than you, it is bigger than The Fed, it is bigger than Treasury. You are subservient to The Market, not the other way around. Go ask Bill Clinton about The Bond Market when he tried to ramrod his Hillarycare plan through and what the reaction was. That's 1/100th of what you're about to experience.
If Bernanke tries to "cap" yields into such a dislocation (he has threatened to) he will cause everyone who owns Treasury debt to tender it to him with the consequence that he will be forced to print five trillion dollars in "new money". This will result in an eighty percent devaluation of the dollar almost instantaneously; gasoline will go to $10/gallon, Milk to $15/gallon, a loaf of bread to $10 and a hamburger at McDonalds will likewise be $10. Due to global wage arbitrage wages will not increase; this will as a consequence immediately render 50% or more of Americans homeless, hungry and jobless. What do you think happens next Mr. President?
The disease in our financial system is lying, too much leverage, outright fraud and hidden bankruptcy - all of it perpetrated through and with the explicit permission of government agencies including Congress, The Executive and The Fed. We have lived beyond our means through fraud for nearly 20 years and this is no longer possible. As a direct consequence trust has been destroyed and private capital has fled our credit markets and will not return so long as these diseases remain in the system.
Hiding the facts cannot cure the disease; the excessive debt must be defaulted; you cannot fix it by transferring where the leverage goes, such as to Treasury or The Fed. The liars and frauds must be exposed, charged and locked up, not protected and bailed out. Standards of living will contract and people must learn to live within their ability to earn, including the government, irrespective of politicians that think they can promise to borrow ever-increasing sums forever.
President Obama, this next crash in the markets, if it occurs, is your sole responsibility.
It will come as a consequence of your policies where you intend to try to shift the BANKRUPT institutions' losses to The Taxpayer - a debt that America cannot finance and which foreign governments and investors WILL NOT cover.
I'm well-aware of the Washington DC policy called "kick the can" but the can is now full of cement and if you think you'll get through your term before this all comes home to roost you are, to be polite, nuts.
You must stop the stupidity and you must stop it NOW.
The game of obfuscation and literally violating investors both foreign and domestic as a consequence of fraud countenanced by our government is over.
Both Americans and foreigners know about the lying and fraud; it is pointless to continue to dissemble and obfuscate as you are merely making a fool of yourself.
If you do not understand this and are being led by your "advisers", many of whom are the very people who advocated the changes in policy over the last 20 years that brought us here, you need new advisers, and you need them today.
By tomorrow it may not matter, and it will certainly be your fault.

[Ruiner]

By the way: We are FUCKED.

The stimulus package was 65% spending, 35% tax relief.

Spend more = more government involvement and only short-term gains.
More tax relief = less government involvement and longer stability.

For those of you who aren't in the real world (many of you still live with your parents), this won't mean much to you.

Just wait until the commercial property market goes bust (and it will). It will be bad, very bad.

[BanginJimmy]

People defending the war to employ 400,000 people is just dumb. Do the numbers we are spending over 12 BILLION dollars a month that is a cost of 30,000 per person per month. I hope you feel we are getting our money's worth b/c we have 2x that amount in the construction industry on the unemployment line.

And this single bill will cost more than 5 years did in Iraq. At least some good will come out of that, this bill will fail just like the last one. The the president will come on TV and say that these are desperate times and the govt must nationalize the banking industry until the crisis is over.

How many bailout plans must be tried before people figure out that they dont work. The roots of this come from congressional prying into private business, yet some people think that same govt is going to fix it? That is beyond just a bad joke.


My answer is to make Iraq pay us back w/ Oil, shift efforts to Afghanistan lay waste to the mountains and show off our WMDs. Bring the Military back and put them to work securing our borders. 12+Billion a month can go towards our stimulus plan.

I agree that we arent getting the money we should be getting from Iraq. IMO Iraq should not have a single dollar in surplus while American troops are there. All fuel used should be paid for with Iraqi money, all infrastructure money should come from the Iraqis. This has been one of my biggest issues with the handling of this whole thing.

As I have said before, let the French, English, Germans, and Italians pay us back for WWII. That will completely eliminate the national debt and leave enough money to give every american a couple hundred thousand dollars.

They can use all the big bombs they want to and I wont lose a minute of sleep. Iran isnt even keeping it a secret that they are supplying and supporting terror groups. Nuke Tehran. Syria and Lebanon are turning a blind eye to training camps, nuke them.

[§treet_§peed]

o yes we are fucked, have been for a while. in my view. Obama was the final piece of straw needed. now the camel, being the US, is starting to fall down. just a matter of time before we slam the ground, and America as we know it, will be done...

[§treet_§peed]

And this single bill will cost more than 5 years did in Iraq. At least some good will come out of that, this bill will fail just like the last one. The the president will come on TV and say that these are desperate times and the govt must nationalize the banking industry until the crisis is over.

How many bailout plans must be tried before people figure out that they dont work. The roots of this come from congressional prying into private business, yet some people think that same govt is going to fix it? That is beyond just a bad joke.



I agree that we arent getting the money we should be getting from Iraq. IMO Iraq should not have a single dollar in surplus while American troops are there. All fuel used should be paid for with Iraqi money, all infrastructure money should come from the Iraqis. This has been one of my biggest issues with the handling of this whole thing.

As I have said before, let the French, English, Germans, and Italians pay us back for WWII. That will completely eliminate the national debt and leave enough money to give every american a couple hundred thousand dollars.

They can use all the big bombs they want to and I wont lose a minute of sleep. Iran isnt even keeping it a secret that they are supplying and supporting terror groups. Nuke Tehran. Syria and Lebanon are turning a blind eye to training camps, nuke them.hell im with you on that last part. i wouldn't loose second of sleep, well, yeah i would. i would like to see the explosion. if they needed some one to push the button, i would be more than happy to.

[FlipKing]

Im not worried. Freshman in college, bank rolled by a professional blackjack player. I have a job waiting for me each summer.

[Sammich]

once again, Sammich uses his keyboard with the broken caps lock key. I have an old one you can have (for free!) if you want man.

...how did i know this would have turned into yet another George Bush Haterade thread? lol

-jonathan

it wasnt just bush that approved the troops to go adn the money spent...and im also saying that they are wanting to act stingy w/ the money seeing how screwed up the economy is because of the accumulated debt, alot of which lately came from the current war/wars

[§treet_§peed]

i agree with us needing to make the countries that owe us money pay us now and let us pay off our debts and we would be in a hell of a lot better situation in no time..

[Sammich]

LOL again, we will not see the benefits of the war for YEARS TO COME. How many times do i have to say that. ITs funny the people saying "we got nothing out of that war" are the same people saying "LETS GO TO AFGHANISTAN!!"

or

"we only went to iraq over oil"

What have we gotten for our money in Iraq? How bad you think its gonna be when all the gov contracting jobs that employ HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS go away cause the war is over and we are pulling out.

where you think people like Nyteryder are gonna go when they come back and we have 9% unemployment?

You guys act like the only people over there are wielding a gun.

Im worried about the economy cause there seems to be a more prominent "doomsday scenario" with this recession than any other. Im sick to death of Congress and our GOVT, both sides of the aisle, i see a massive civil uprising in our future. SOmething along the lines of 1776

u missing what i'm saying..i'm not talking about the benefits of the war..i'm saying they had no problem spending countless dollars to fight a war to kill people, but they have people over here, suffering, in their own way and need some kind of assistance (monetary obviously and jobs) but they dont want to let the money go because america is already in so much debt...

[cwhiteboy]

...The the president will come on TV and say that these are desperate times and the govt must nationalize the banking industry until the crisis is over.

Didn't this kinda already happen in the 30's. Something called the Federal Reserve. :thinking:

[4dmin]

And this single bill will cost more than 5 years did in Iraq. At least some good will come out of that, this bill will fail just like the last one. The the president will come on TV and say that these are desperate times and the govt must nationalize the banking industry until the crisis is over.

How many bailout plans must be tried before people figure out that they dont work. The roots of this come from congressional prying into private business, yet some people think that same govt is going to fix it? That is beyond just a bad joke.
actually the bill now from what i heard is more like 700 billion and that is less than iraq and it isn't going to be immediately spent into the market so in the grand scheme of things it is far better than spending money in iraq. whether it will work or not - i think the first stimulus plan was retarded and should of been spent better and the bank/auto bailout should have massive oversight and check/balances. if the banks were able to spend billions in compensations + bonuses at end of year then they should have the money to pay back what they took from the american people.

i think alot of what i have heard that is in the bill is stuff that mainly infrastructure needs that have been over looked. there are over 1 million people unemployed just in the construction sector so things like this will surely help but only if there are checks/balances. the problem w/ our gov't is we get money to spend and we give it to our friend who is higher priced than competitors so we can get a cut under the table. this has been happening forever especially with military contracts.

as far as nuking the middle east i'm all for it - include isreal in that and lay waste to the "Holy Land" - let them all go meet their maker :2cents:

[Jimmy B]

this is nature's way of killing off usless buisness's and usless working positions.. Am i concerened, yes.. if i dont get payed, my bills dont get payed,.. it will come around soon, im sure of it.. its the people that DO have cash, that arent spendign it that are killing the economy.. im still buying, but only at about 75% that i used to..

[redciv1]

I feel like we are in a global "correctioning" so even though my wife was laid off last Monday, we are not panicing. GOD is taken care of us. I know most people look at losing a job as a bad thing but you have to look at it as your chance to potentially work for yourself. Now i'm not saying my wife and I are just spending spending spending, however we do know that something good is coming out of this. We are in the process of looking for a house and even though foreclosure rate has skyrocketed, this is an excellent time to buy. House values, car values(Honda excluded) were inflated for many years and now things are correcting themselves(Honda excluded). So try to find something good out of all of this. Who know's my wife may end up opening her own business.

[BanginJimmy]

actually the bill now from what i heard is more like 700 billion and that is less than iraq and it isn't going to be immediately spent into the market so in the grand scheme of things it is far better than spending money in iraq. whether it will work or not - i think the first stimulus plan was retarded and should of been spent better and the bank/auto bailout should have massive oversight and check/balances. if the banks were able to spend billions in compensations + bonuses at end of year then they should have the money to pay back what they took from the american people.

I think it was like 780B so it was actually less than either the house or senate bills with was suprising. Do you really think there is going to be more checks and balances in this bill that the last one? No, not a chance. Giethner had 3 months to come up with a plan for the use of the second half of the TARP and made a big deal out a press conference to lay it out. Then said absolutely nothing about how it was going to be spent.

Where is all the transparancy that this administration promised during the election? Why are the discussions being held behind closed doors on this new package?

As far as bonuses go. None of them went to upper management. They went to the mid level guys and traders if they hit earnings goals. According to MSNBC, those traders only make about 20k per year before you add bonuses. Take away those bonuses, how many quality people do you think you will get to take a job? To expand on that, if you go with Obama's 500k compensation limit for top execs, how many guys do you ink you will find that have the brains to get a BoA out of the financial mess they are in now?


i think alot of what i have heard that is in the bill is stuff that mainly infrastructure needs that have been over looked. there are over 1 million people unemployed just in the construction sector so things like this will surely help but only if there are checks/balances. the problem w/ our gov't is we get money to spend and we give it to our friend who is higher priced than competitors so we can get a cut under the table. this has been happening forever especially with military contracts.

Most of this bill is not infrastructure needs and while the infrastructure needs updating, very few jobs will actually be created. It will be years before there are any projects that are ready for the first shovel. The bidding pocess alone will last for nearly a year. Those 1 million construction workers that are out of work are the ones that built sub divisions, not sky scrapers and roads. It is a completely different set of skills. Of those 1 million, at least 900k are still out of work with this bill.

The problem with our govt is politicians. They are all crooked, from the top down. Not a single one of them can be trusted to even pay their own taxes. 3 senators are currently under investigation. 2 Cabinate members had tax issues that the IRS just let them pay up and be square with, maybe because it was the tresury sec that had the tax issues? 1 more that withdrew because of tax issues. Another nominee withdrew because he was under investigation for a pay to play scheme. Obama ignoring his own ethics and bringing 3 lobbiests into his cabinate? Who do you think is going to provide the checks and balances in the goup I just mentioned? The tax cheats or the lobbiests?

[AirMax95]

Not worried about myself just yet. My job is secure, and I am polishing my personal finances to get in a better position just in case, lol.

['chell]

I am. I am fortunate that we both have our jobs. My husband's is more stable than mine because he has a skill. I am in sales (pest/termite). People are not buying anything right now. They are repairing what they do have. If you have that type of skill, then you will continue to have work. Now you might not be paid in actual currency soon, because I think we are headed back to they way things used to be. The value of items are about to change significantly. That $2.38 for a 6 pk of toilet paper might just get you $50-100 worth of something else.

We have been taken measures such as long term food storage, putting back medical supplies, ensuring that we have a way to sustain ourselves until things get better. The things we spend money on are things that will feed us or protect what we do have, or that can be used in the barter system.

I'd rather have and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Everyone knows the old saying "an ounce of prevention..."

I think we are going to find ourselves getting back to the basics. Families will have to rely on each other and work together in order to survive. And if you are not willing to WORK, you won't survive.

I really believe this country is on the verge of a major, catastrophic event and to think otherwise is naive. It could be financial collapse, terroristic, or biowarfare, but it will be something.

just my :2cents:

[dabuilding]

when ur like me (unemployed) it doent matter so bad lol but i need a job