Some facts on the Economic Stimulus Waste

[Vteckidd]

Here is a list of some of the asinine things in the new economic stimulus bill:

Found here http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1_text.pdf

$44 million for construction, repair and improvements at US Department of Agriculture facilties

$209 million for work on deferred maintenance at Agricultural Research Service facilities

$245 million for maintaining and modernizing the IT system of the Farm Service Agency

$175 million to buy and restore floodplain easements for flood prevention

$50 million for "Watershed Rehabilitation"

$1.1 billion for rural community facilities direct loans

$2 billion for rural business and industry guaranteed loans

$2.7 billion for rural water and waste dispoal direct loans

$22.1 billion for rural housing insurance fund loans

$2.8 billion for loans to spur rural broadband

$150 million for emergency food assistance

$50 million for regional economic development commissions

$1 billion for "Periodic Censuses and Programs"

$350 million for State Broadband Data and Development Grants

$1.8 billion for Rural Broadband Deployment Grants

$1 billion for Rural Wireless Deployment Grants

$650 million for Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Program

$100 million for "Scientific and Technical Research and Services" at the National Institute of Standards And Technology

$30 million for necessary expenses of the "Hollings Manufacturing Extension Partnership"

$300 million for a competitive construction grant program for research science buildings

$400 million for "habitat restoration and mitigation activities" at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

$600 million for "accelerating satellite development and acquisition"

$140 million for "climate data modeling"

$3 billion for state and local law enforcement grants

$1 billion for "Community Oriented Policing Services"

$250 million for "accelerating the development of the tier 1 set of Earth science climate research missions recommended by the National Academies Decadal Survey."

$50 million for repairs to NASA facilities from storm damage

$300 million for "Major Research Insrumentation program" (science)

$200 million for "academic research facilities modernization"

$100 million for "Education and Human Resources"

$400 million for "Major Research Equipment and Facilities Construction"

$4.5 billion to make military facilities more energy efficient

$1.5 billion for Army Operation and Maintenance fund

$624 million for Navy Operation and Maintenance

$128 million for Marine Corps Operation and Maintenance

$1.23 billion for Air Force Operation and Maintenance

$454 million to "Defense Health Program"

$110 million for Army Reserve Operation and Maintenance

$62 million for Navy Reserve Operation and Maintenance

$45 million for Marine Corps Reserve Operation and Maintenance

$14 million for Air Force Reserve Operation and Maintenance

$302 million for National Guard Operation and Maintenance

$29 million for Air National Guard Operation and Maintenance

$350 million for military energy research and development programs

$2 billion for Army Corps of Engineers "Construction"

$250 million for "Mississippi River and Tributaries"

$2.2 billion for Army Corps "Operation and Maintenance"

$25 million for an Army Corps "Regulatory Program"

$126 million for Interior Department "water reclamation and reuse projects"

$80 million for "rural water projects"

$18.5 billion for "Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy" research in the Department of Energy. That money includes:

$2 billion for development of advanced batteries

$800 million of that is for biomass research and $400 million for geothermal technologies

$1 billion in grants to "institutional entities for energy sustainability and efficiency"

$6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program

$3.5 billion for Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grants

$3.4 billion for state energy programs

$200 million for expenses to implement energy independence programs

$300 million for expenses to implement Energy efficient appliance rebate programs including the Energy Star program

$400 million for expenses to implement Alternative Fuel Vehicle and Infrastructure Grants to States and Local Governments

$1 billion for expenses necessary for advanced battery manufacturing

$4.5 billion to modernize the nation's electricity grid

$1 billion for the Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee Program

$2.4 billion to demonstrate "carbon capture and sequestration technologies"

$400 million for the Advanced Research Projects Agency (Science)

$500 million for "Defense Environmental Cleanup"

$1 billion for construction and repair of border facilities and land ports of entry

$6 billion for energy efficiency projects on government buildings

$600 million to buy and lease government plug-in and alternative fuel vehicles

$426 million in small business loans

$100 million for "non-intrusive detection technology to be deployed at sea ports of entry

$150 million for repair and construction at land border ports of entry

$500 million for explosive detection systems for aviation security

$150 million for alteration or removal of obstructive bridges

$200 million for FEMA Emergency Food and Shelter program

$325 million for Interior Department road, bridge and trail repair projects

$300 million for road and bridge work in Wildlife Refuges and Fish Hatcheries

$1.7 billion for "critical deferred maintenance" in the National Park System

$200 million to revitalize the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

$100 million for National Park Service Centennial Challenge programs

$200 million for repair of U.S. Geological Survey facilities

$500 million for repair and replacement of schools, jails, roads, bridges, housing and more for Bureau of Indian Affairs

$800 million for Superfund programs

$200 million for leaking underground storage tank cleanup

$8.4 billion in "State and Tribal Assistance Grants"

$650 million in "Capital Improvement and Maintenance" at the Agriculture Dept.

$850 million for "Wildland Fire Management"

$550 million for Indian Health facilties

$150 million for deferred maintenance at the Smithsonian museums

$50 million in grants to fund "arts projects and activities which preserve jobs in the non-profit arts sector threatened by declines in philanthropic and other support during the current economic downturn" through the National Endowment for the Arts

$1.2 billion in grants to states for youth summer jobs programs and other activities

$1 billion for states in dislocated worker employment and training activities

$500 million for the dislocated workers assistance national reserve

$80 million for the enforcement of worker protection laws and regulations related to infrastructure and unemployment insurance investments

$300 million for "construction, rehabilitation and acquisition of Job Corps Centers"

$250 million for public health centers

$1 billion for renovation and repair of health centers

$600 million for nurse, physician and dentist training

$462 million for renovation work at the Centers for Disease Control

$1.5 billion for "National Center for Research Resources"

$500 million for "Buildlings and Facilties" at the National Institutes of Health in suburban Washington, D.C.

$700 million for "comparative effectiveness research" on prescription drugs

$1 billion for Low-Income Home Energy Assistance

$2 billion in Child Care and Development Block Grants for states

$1 billion for Head Start programs

$1.1 billion for Early Head Start programs

$100 million for Social Security research programs

$200 million for "Aging Services Programs"

$2 billion for "Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology"

$430 million for public health/social services emergency funds

$2.3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control for a variety of programs

$5.5 billion in targeted education grants

$5.5 billion in "education finance incentive grants"

$2 billion in "school improvement grants"

$13.6 billion for Individuals with Disabilities Education Act

$250 million for statewide education data systems

$14 billion for school modernization, renovation and repair

$160 million for AmeriCorps grants

$400 million for the construction and costs to establish a new "National Computer Center" for the Social Security Administration

$500 million to improve processing of disability and retirement claims

$920 million for Army housing and child development centers

$350 million for Navy and Marine Corps housing and child development centers

$280 million in Air Force housing and child development centers

$3.75 billion in military hospital and surgery center construction

$140 million in Army National Guard construction projects

$70 million in Air National Guard construction projects

$100 million in Army Reserve construction projects

$30 million in Navy Reserve construction projects

$60 million in Air Force Reserve construction projects

$950 million for VA Medical Facilities

$50 million for repairs for military cemeteries

$120 million for a backup information management facility for the State Department

$98 million for National Cybersecurity Initiative

$3 billion for "Grants-in-Aid for Airports"

$300 million for Indian Reservation roads

$300 million for Amtrak capital needs

$800 million for national railroad assets or infrastructure repairs, upgrades

$5.4 billion in federal transit grants

$2 billion in infrastructure development for subways and commuter railways

$5 billion for public housing capital

$1 billion in competitive housing grants

$2.5 billion for energy efficiency upgrades in public housing

$500 million in Native American Housing Block Grants

$4.1 billion to help communities deal with foreclosed homes

$1.5 billion in homeless prevention activities

$79 billion in education funds for states



Obama is expected to roll out a plan to buy assets from banks next week , a plan that could cost as much as 4 TRILLION

I DONT GET IT, what happened to POWER TO THE PEOPLE, HOPE AND CHANGE? I thought that Bush grew the government so much and it was bad.

Its now getting even BIGGER. This stimulus will do nothing but create a bunch of SHORT TERM govt jobs. So all you Circuit City employees run out to get your job !

That bill is so saddled with pork its not funny. 200 million to REVITALIZE the national mall in DC?? Everyone in congress gets a hybrid car?

I mean, if anyone thinks that these jobs arent going to go special interest companies you live in a black hole

the kicker, 426million, or less than 1% , is for business loans for small business.

FUCK YOU PRIVATE SECTOR!

[stephen]

Obama is expected to roll out a plan to buy assets from banks next week , a plan that could cost as much as 4 TRILLION

I DONT GET IT, what happened to POWER TO THE PEOPLE, HOPE AND CHANGE? I thought that Bush grew the government so much and it was bad.

Its now getting even BIGGER. This stimulus will do nothing but create a bunch of SHORT TERM govt jobs. So all you Circuit City employees run out to get your job !

That bill is so saddled with pork its not funny. 200 million to REVITALIZE the national mall in DC?? Everyone in congress gets a hybrid car?

I mean, if anyone thinks that these jobs arent going to go special interest companies you live in a black hole

the kicker, 426million, or less than 1% , is for business loans for small business.

FUCK YOU PRIVATE SECTOR!

you do understand, the original bailout or "stimulus" package was supposed to buy those assets from the banks in the first place right? we basically GAVE half of that money to the banks instead...and what did they do??? went on million dollar getaways and further increased the bonuses going into their own pockets??? hell, even ben stein (a hardcore republican) suggested that those bank assets be bought.

the first stimulus did nothing to help out the banking business, which EVERYONE NEEDS (including small businesses). you can't just say "less than 1%" towards small business. look at how much he's putting into broadband...almost $3B. that affects the small business world whether you want to agree with it or not.

also, do you realize how much money the government spends on fueling their vehicles? oil is one of our most expensive resources. there was a special on the news last year, where they interviewed some government official in new orleans. dude was pissed because of the fact that the state was so broke, and yet, they were paying for fuel in the government vehicles which were being used for "non official" purposes. i'm just saying man...give the thing a chance to work or FAIL. the only thing republicans want is higher tax cuts! maybe they should have a look at the ohio budget, and find out what put them in the crisis their in...

[mad3nch1na]

WE NEED CENTRALIZED BANKS,
WE NEED REGULATED MARKETS,
WE NEED POWER TO THE PEOPLE,
WE NEED CHANGE.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oM2hr9Shfr4/RywMNXcw6yI/AAAAAAAAABs/zCzm_mVUTVc/s400/china.jpg
http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images/barack-obama-and-progress1.jpg

We just accidentally the least experienced candidate in to the highest office. Get ready for the LULZ! :lmfao:

[stephen]

We just accidentally the least experienced candidate in to the highest office. Get ready for the LULZ! :lmfao:

you might need to edit that....especially if "the LULZ" were supposed to be with you, and not at you...

[Frög]

^LULZ!

[BanginJimmy]

you do understand, the original bailout or "stimulus" package was supposed to buy those assets from the banks in the first place right? we basically GAVE half of that money to the banks instead...and what did they do??? went on million dollar getaways and further increased the bonuses going into their own pockets??? hell, even ben stein (a hardcore republican) suggested that those bank assets be bought.

so because the first one was mismanaged and failed we should do it agian, with even more pork added to it?



the first stimulus did nothing to help out the banking business, which EVERYONE NEEDS (including small businesses). you can't just say "less than 1%" towards small business. look at how much he's putting into broadband...almost $3B. that affects the small business world whether you want to agree with it or not.

You bring up 3B out of 819B and say its all good? That is still less than .5%. How about the money going to Indian healthcare? How does that stimulate jobs? How about 20 million for fish barriers? The amount of pork in this bill is the biggest issue with it.


also, do you realize how much money the government spends on fueling their vehicles? oil is one of our most expensive resources. there was a special on the news last year, where they interviewed some government official in new orleans. dude was pissed because of the fact that the state was so broke, and yet, they were paying for fuel in the government vehicles which were being used for "non official" purposes. i'm just saying man...give the thing a chance to work or FAIL. the only thing republicans want is higher tax cuts! maybe they should have a look at the ohio budget, and find out what put them in the crisis their in...

I have no issues with the sending on alternative fuel vehicles. They will drop millions into the coffers for the Big 3. That WILL stimulate the economy on the very short term. There is very little in this bill that will simulate the economy in the long term though.

[Vteckidd]

banginjimmy said it all.

Great congress gets new cars, enery effiient, im sure GM will be thankfull as thats what 537 cars? good for them.

but this bill will do nothing, for the long term, except bring on hyperinflation

[ash7]

this is rediculous - i think my head is about to explode

-jonathan

[§treet_§peed]

like we talked about Mike, its coming. soon....

[BanginJimmy]

like we talked about Mike, its coming. soon....

I actually think it is going to get VERY bad, and may even end up with some type of civil uprising, but in the end I think everything will actually turn out alright.

What the world really needs right now is a major war. It sounds bad, but the new industires that pop up, the massing of armies over an extended time, and the eventual drastic decrease in world population will do great things for all world economies, especially those of countries that are not destroyed in the conflict.

Think of it this way. GM stops making cars and starts building tanks. No new cars on the road for the next 5 years. At the same time you have millions of people in a conflict not spending money. When it ends you have 10's of millions of younger people, flush with cash, and older, beat up cars. Where do you think that alot of them are going to spend their money? This same logic can also be applied to the housing markets.

On other manufacturing fronts, think of all the people in say Europe that will need american made goods because their factories are all shut down.

The lsit of industries that would be positivly affected is endless and just like after WWII, the US would be so flush with cash all markets would soar.

[ash7]

I actually think it is going to get VERY bad, and may even end up with some type of civil uprising, but in the end I think everything will actually turn out alright.

What the world really needs right now is a major war. It sounds bad, but the new industires that pop up, the massing of armies over an extended time, and the eventual drastic decrease in world population will do great things for all world economies, especially those of countries that are not destroyed in the conflict.

Think of it this way. GM stops making cars and starts building tanks. No new cars on the road for the next 5 years. At the same time you have millions of people in a conflict not spending money. When it ends you have 10's of millions of younger people, flush with cash, and older, beat up cars. Where do you think that alot of them are going to spend their money? This same logic can also be applied to the housing markets.

On other manufacturing fronts, think of all the people in say Europe that will need american made goods because their factories are all shut down.

The lsit of industries that would be positivly affected is endless and just like after WWII, the US would be so flush with cash all markets would soar.

sounds harsh, but that makes good sense. reps

-jonathan

[BanginJimmy]

sounds harsh, but that makes good sense. reps

-jonathan


Its harsh and brutal, but in a way, peace has made the world populations balloon uncontrollably. There is a point where the American infrastructure and job base will not be able to grow enough to employ everyone even in a booming economy. The same is true of every country in the world. Unless work population decreases, food supplies are also going to start falling short.

[§treet_§peed]

I actually think it is going to get VERY bad, and may even end up with some type of civil uprising, but in the end I think everything will actually turn out alright.

What the world really needs right now is a major war. It sounds bad, but the new industires that pop up, the massing of armies over an extended time, and the eventual drastic decrease in world population will do great things for all world economies, especially those of countries that are not destroyed in the conflict.

Think of it this way. GM stops making cars and starts building tanks. No new cars on the road for the next 5 years. At the same time you have millions of people in a conflict not spending money. When it ends you have 10's of millions of younger people, flush with cash, and older, beat up cars. Where do you think that alot of them are going to spend their money? This same logic can also be applied to the housing markets.

On other manufacturing fronts, think of all the people in say Europe that will need american made goods because their factories are all shut down.

The lsit of industries that would be positivly affected is endless and just like after WWII, the US would be so flush with cash all markets would soar.I agree and thats what me and Mike were talking about. Mike thinks by the summer it's going to get reall really bad. I do agree with him on that. I also agree with what you said. War is a double edge sword. Sometimes thining the population is a good thing, sad to say but true. Think of the Holocaust. I know ill prolly get flamed for saying this, but think if all the people that were killed during that time and the war following would of still been alive today? How over populated it would be. Thats sad to say but the way things work. Yes it would be good and bad to have WW III. I hate to see people die, but sometimes, it's better that way to insure the survival of the world.

[BanginJimmy]

Think of the Holocaust. I know ill prolly get flamed for saying this, but think if all the people that were killed during that time and the war following would of still been alive today? How over populated it would be. Thats sad to say but the way things work. Yes it would be good and bad to have WW III. I hate to see people die, but sometimes, it's better that way to insure the survival of the world.

I think the holocuast is a good example as it accounted for about 10% of total deaths. According to 1 site, estimated deaths during WWII is 48 million, but others have the Soviet death toll alone at nearly 50 million. Many of that 50 were political killings though that were attrivuted to the war so the true Soviet number is only a modest estimate.

I wish Truman wasnt such a pansy though and collected all of the debt owed to us after WWII from European countries. The US would still have so much cash on hand it would be nuts. 1 estimate I saw had the balance owed to us, not counting intrest, and adjusted for inflation was close to 50 trillion dollars between 1939 and 1948.

[§treet_§peed]

I think the holocuast is a good example as it accounted for about 10% of total deaths. According to 1 site, estimated deaths during WWII is 48 million, but others have the Soviet death toll alone at nearly 50 million. Many of that 50 were political killings though that were attrivuted to the war so the true Soviet number is only a modest estimate.

I wish Truman wasnt such a pansy though and collected all of the debt owed to us after WWII from European countries. The US would still have so much cash on hand it would be nuts. 1 estimate I saw had the balance owed to us, not counting intrest, and adjusted for inflation was close to 50 trillion dollars between 1939 and 1948.To bad we don't have that cash now. if it was that much then just imagine how much it would be worth now. Europe is doing pretty good. we could really use that money now. we would be ok for a little while if we got that money and used it wisely. Obama would prolly blow it on a fleet of Obamamobiles tho....

[Frög]

like we talked about Mike, its coming. soon....

Zombies? :bump:

[stephen]

i'm just curious....how many of you that have a problem with this, actually took the time to read the link that mike put up (including you mike)???

here's a few snippets:


Making supplemental appropriations for job preservation and creation, infrastructure
investment, energy efficiency and science, assistance to the
unemployed, and State and local fiscal stabilization, for the fiscal year
ending September 30, 2009, and for other purposes.

that's the FIRST PARAGRAPH of the bill. break it down....NOT EVERY ITEM IS SUPPOSED TO CREATE JOBS...EFFICIENCY & FINANCIAL STABILITY ARE ALSO PART OF THE ECONOMY.


This Act may be cited as the ‘‘American Recovery
and Reinvestment Act of 2009’’.

once again...recovery AND reinvestment


None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made
available in this Act may be used for any casino or other
gambling establishment, aquarium, zoo, golf course, or
swimming pool.

i just like that part.


IN GENERAL.—None of the funds appropriated
or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for
a project for the construction, alteration, maintenance, or
repair of a public building or public work unless all of the
iron and steel used in the project is produced in the United
States.

i like that part too


None of the funds provided by this Act may be made
available to the State of Illinois, or any agency of the 4
State, unless (1) the use of such funds by the State is 5
approved in legislation enacted by the State after the date 6
of the enactment of this Act, or (2) Rod R. Blagojevich 7
no longer holds the office of Governor of the State of Illi- 8
nois. 9

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

i could quote more...but if you took the time to actually READ THE BILL, a lot of explanations are in there. every single item listed here has its own paragraph which explains it. also...understand that the primary purpose isn't just to create jobs, but also reduce in spending. not having enough jobs isn't what put us in the economic situation in the first place. almost every item in the bill involves some sort of building or maintenance of infrastructure, something our construction industry DESPERATELY needs.

OH, and that's pretty sick that you guys are praising the holocaust. i understand war generates money and all...but i mean damn...using the death toll and dollar figures in the same sentence is just ridiculous. i don't even know why i'm surprised.

[Vteckidd]

Oh come on, why when Bush said all these great things all we heard is hate mongering and how he cant do anything right.

Obama makes a plan that grows the governement rediculous amount and its "YAY"

How come we never believe anything the govt said under Bush, but with Obama its gospel.

I cant cite 10232039840932809432 things the govt would work and they never did. This bill and the paragraphs you quoted, fall in that category

I read it all, but i dont drink from the same punchbowl as you obviously

[Vteckidd]

i could quote more...but if you took the time to actually READ THE BILL, a lot of explanations are in there. every single item listed here has its own paragraph which explains it. also...understand that the primary purpose isn't just to create jobs, but also reduce in spending. not having enough jobs isn't what put us in the economic situation in the first place. almost every item in the bill involves some sort of building or maintenance of infrastructure, something our construction industry DESPERATELY needs.


ARE YOU INSANE?

lets spend 850 BILLION and say its to reduce spending LOLOLOL

SO what happens when thos construction jobs are done hmmmmmmm? We spend another 850 billion to keep them employed?

GO take an economics class

[BanginJimmy]

OH, and that's pretty sick that you guys are praising the holocaust. i understand war generates money and all...but i mean damn...using the death toll and dollar figures in the same sentence is just ridiculous. i don't even know why i'm surprised.


Where do you get anyone praising the holocaust? It was a hoprrible thing that happened, just like any other war, but at the same time the world population is part of the reason we are in this mess to begin with. There is not enough room or jobs available to sustain the worlds population and it is only getting worse.



As far as the rest of your post goes, we could quote back and forth all day with pork and spending that we agree and dont agree with. The simple fact is that much of this bill is spending and nothing more.

How many jobs will be opened by thowing 100M at STD prevention?
How many long term jobs will be opened up by 20M for fish barriers?

I am not saying that those things arent needed, I am just saying they dont belong in this bill.

The part about requiring American made steel I love and think they should go further. I think ALL facets of this bill should be contingent all materials being purchased with money from this bill be manufactured in the US.

I also agree with the repubican plan in reducing corporate tax rates to 5% with at least a portion of the money. Even 1 year at a 5% tax rate will help MANY businesses, both large and small.

[ash7]

ARE YOU INSANE?

lets spend 850 BILLION and say its to reduce spending LOLOLOL

SO what happens when thos construction jobs are done hmmmmmmm? We spend another 850 billion to keep them employed?

GO take an economics class

absolutely correct sir.

Scenerio: You get the credit card bill in the mail.

you: "hey honey, we got the bill - we're definitely up to our eyeballs in debt! :D"

wife: "oh that's great - we'd better cut that thing up, throw it away! :mad:"

you: "what?! no! what we need to do is take out another credit card to pay this one off and max that one out too! We're going to eliminate our money problems by spending even more..."

-end-

because that makes a whole lot of sense.
-jonathan

[cornercarver78]

I don't really have anything to add, it's all been said already. This Porkulus bill is going to be detrimental to the economy. No new jobs/ plenty of inflation.

[_Christian_]

Zombies? :bump:
It's time to stock up my friend. lol


absolutely correct sir.

Scenerio: You get the credit card bill in the mail.

you: "hey honey, we got the bill - we're definitely up to our eyeballs in debt! "

wife: "oh that's great - we'd better cut that thing up, throw it away! "

you: "what?! no! what we need to do is take out another credit card to pay this one off and max that one out too! We're going to eliminate our money problems by spending even more..."

-end-

because that makes a whole lot of sense.
-jonathan
Reps for the awesome analogy.

[stephen]

Oh come on, why when Bush said all these great things all we heard is hate mongering and how he cant do anything right.

Obama makes a plan that grows the governement rediculous amount and its "YAY"

How come we never believe anything the govt said under Bush, but with Obama its gospel.

I cant cite 10232039840932809432 things the govt would work and they never did. This bill and the paragraphs you quoted, fall in that category

I read it all, but i dont drink from the same punchbowl as you obviously


i never wasted my time bashing bush, and i know not everything obama says isn't gospel. the truth of the matter is, neither one of us drink from any punchbowl...neither one of us ran for president of the united states either. it's just so stupid how some of you feel like "oh, this is such a terrible idea" but don't do shit to fix the problem. ever since you read that...did you call your local representative and express your concerns? do you know how many people in the US have??? a lot of which share your same concerns.

it's just a vicious cycle...all of you who were so against obama, work your ass off to find problems with him. what's the point? as jimmy said, we can go back and forth all day quoting things. the dude has a plan...you think it's bullshit...call or write your local representative.


ARE YOU INSANE?

lets spend 850 BILLION and say its to reduce spending LOLOLOL

SO what happens when thos construction jobs are done hmmmmmmm? We spend another 850 billion to keep them employed?

GO take an economics class

so what do you suggest "ol wise one?" i need to take an economics class??? lol ok. i'm not the small business owner who's bitching because the president isn't LOANING ME ENOUGH MONEY.

some of you look at shit with such simple minds it's ridiculous. spending money to "go green" is a perfect example of spending money to reduce spending. the amount of money we spend of foreign oil is ridiculous, so why not put some money down on something cheaper for the long run. here's another SIMPLE example that you might be able to wrap your head around... you own a repair business. you only own basic hand tools, which makes jobs take longer. the longer you take on every job, the fewer jobs you can squeeze in. WHAT DO YOU DO? I GOT IT! YOU SPEND MONEY BUYING MORE EFFICIENT (BUT EXPENSIVE TOOLS/AIR TOOLS) AND POTENTIALLY SPEND MORE MONEY ON HIRING ANOTHER EMPLOYEE! why i had to break that down for you and se7en completely throws me...

so basically what your saying is...we don't need construction workers because once their finished with their contracts, there's nothing else left? what do you think the new infrastructures are going to be used for? here let me help you...there going to take people...put them inside...give them shit to do...it's called WORK. yeah, it might not be the sample people who built the place, but it's still creating JOBS. lol, i give up man...i really can't seem to get down to the level of thinking in here. carry on..

[BanginJimmy]

call or write your local representative.

I have written Saxby and Isakson and as I figured I got an automated response back.



As far as my "plan" for the economy I like tax cuts. They cost the same amount of money as spending does and doesnt grow govt.

Reduce corporate taxes to 15% for those companies that employ over 10k employees and 5% to those that employ less than 10k.

With the remaining money, provide an additional refund of 10% to everyone that paid taxes last year. If you paid in 15k last year, got a refund of 5k, then you get an additional refund of 1k.

If you were one of those people that paid in 4k, got a 5k refund, then you get nothing. The same is true of anyone that received welfare benefits at any time during 2008.

[stephen]

I have written Saxby and Isakson and as I figured I got an automated response back.



As far as my "plan" for the economy I like tax cuts. They cost the same amount of money as spending does and doesnt grow govt.

Reduce corporate taxes to 15% for those companies that employ over 10k employees and 5% to those that employ less than 10k.

With the remaining money, provide an additional refund of 10% to everyone that paid taxes last year. If you paid in 15k last year, got a refund of 5k, then you get an additional refund of 1k.

If you were one of those people that paid in 4k, got a 5k refund, then you get nothing. The same is true of anyone that received welfare benefits at any time during 2008.


i'm pretty sure YOU'VE contacted your local representative...i mean, you advertise the fairtax site as your sig. that comment was more directed at A LOT of others who do more complaining than anything.

as i've stated before, i really don't think tax cuts are going to solve many problems. i use ohio as an example... http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=5912462


Budget gap less than amount state has returned in tax breaks

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - Tax cuts given to Ohio businesses and individuals as part of a 2005 tax reform package could have more than covered the state's latest projected budget gap, critics of the tax changes said Thursday.

The gap also could have been avoided by targeting last year's property tax cut for senior citizens to those with a financial need, rather than allowing every elderly resident to partake, said Zach Schiller, research director for Cleveland-based think tank Policy Matters Ohio.

of course...this is only one specific example, but it just makes me thing more about the need for tax cuts. did you read my other thread where california doesn't even have enough money to give people tax returns?

the second reason has to do with the fact that people aren't working and businesses are shutting down. can you imagine what the 2009 tax returns will look like?? what taxes are there really going to be to cut? with the way people are struggling, i bet there's going to be a significant influx in non-payers than in the past who knows how long. so i really don't think 100% in tax cuts/rebates are the only way to go. obama has designated a large portion of the bill to tax cuts though, which will be worthwhile once people start working again.

the primary goal right now should be creating jobs. YES this bill does contain "pork" to appease certain groups (like the tree-huggers & other agricultural type of groups...hence the fish barrier), but this is stuff that would've been done regardless of our current situation.

[BanginJimmy]

as i've stated before, i really don't think tax cuts are going to solve many problems. i use ohio as an example... http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=5912462

The ansnawerable questest though is, would it have been worse if those businesses did not have those tax breaks and were forced to lay off additional workers? My wife's business could afford to hire 1 more person that they desperately need, but because of the tax burden they cannot afford it. If even 1 in 50 small businesses run into this problem nationwide you are looking at 100's of thousands of long term jobs.




did you read my other thread where california doesn't even have enough money to give people tax returns?

Yes I did, and I think it further proves my belief about bordersecurity. Cali, just like AZ, NM, and southern Texas, have a very serious problem with illegals. Those illegals are using a hell of alot more in services than they pay in taxes, if they are paying in at all.


the second reason has to do with the fact that people aren't working and businesses are shutting down. can you imagine what the 2009 tax returns will look like?? what taxes are there really going to be to cut? with the way people are struggling, i bet there's going to be a significant influx in non-payers than in the past who knows how long. so i really don't think 100% in tax cuts/rebates are the only way to go. obama has designated a large portion of the bill to tax cuts though, which will be worthwhile once people start working again.

I do think long term tax cuts will bring more jobs into the US. I also think that companies like the Big 3 are o an unlevel playing field with the rest of the world because of union shakedowns and the second highest tax rate in the world.


the primary goal right now should be creating jobs. YES this bill does contain "pork" to appease certain groups (like the tree-huggers & other agricultural type of groups...hence the fish barrier), but this is stuff that would've been done regardless of our current situation.

I do agree that this stuff will be done regardless of the current situation and that is a huge part of the problem. How many billions of dollar could be stripped from this bil and that last one just by removing the bribery? 200? 300? More? The pork alone would be enough to give every tax paying American a 3 month income tax holiday, or a 2 month holiday from ALL federal taxes.

[MSP1660]

I don't really want to scan through this thread to see what everyone read (because I am a lazy ass... perhaps I should aim for one of those soon-to-be-employed gov't jobs) but here is my :2cents:.

The first one was a crock of shit. If I recall, Obama voted for that one too. I distinctly recall him AND McCain going for it. I was a McCain supporter (though only because Huckabee didn't make it as far as I'd hoped). So how is this "New Economic Stimulus Bill" any bit of a shock to anyone? I've seen a saying going around that is slowing becoming my mantra for the next 4 years... "I'll keep my guns, freedom, and money... you can keep the 'change.' "

I am so fucking fed up with politics it's making my head hurt daily. This makes me happy to a certain extent. All my friends that jumped on the Obama bandwagon because he was "fresh," "new," "something different," "monumental," and he's for "change we can believe in." What the fuck did that mean anyhow!? Yeah, I see change... leaving my hardearned wallet to go fund some fuckhead in office's brand new car. FUCK HIM! I want a new car, I believe I've earned it. I also want to propose a new bill. It's called "100 million dollars - To Fund ME!" Sounds like a good plan to me.

These assholes are robbing us blind right before our own eyes, and we don't have the damn sense to realize it. The moment we finally decide to take back the country for us, it'll be too late. By that point, we may as well have moved our asses to Sweden (no disrespect, I was just aiming for a country with solicialized services and Sweden seems just as good as any).

I also believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. However, I do believe it will get better. I think Obama is definitely going down in the history books, and not just for being America's first multiracial president (and no disrespect but he's no more African than I am Croatian, yet I don't parade around as a Croat-American now do I?). He's going to go down in history as the first president to ever force the entire country to start an uprising. As it's not only our right to question our leaders and hold them accountable, it's our duty as American citizens.

Please, as I've said in my little rant, I don't mean any disrespect if I may have offended someone. That fact is, if I did, think about it for a minute. If you find offense, fucking tell me. That's the beauty of America that's about to get flushed down the toilet with the "Fairness Doctrine" or any equivilent that might come along.

[MSP1660]

Also, BanginJimmy.... love your sig!

FairTax all night long baby.

[§treet_§peed]

Zombies? :bump:lol not that, but something similar and we might have to use the Zombie plan for this. just change a few things around, because if the economy crashes, the gov.'t will try to declare martial law on all of the US.