preference of boost.

[chaseamundo]

SAY I HAVE A B18C HATCH.
i know supercharging is hella cheapr but will it give me satisfying results
or should i just wait and turbo?
gimme some pros or cons please.:thinking:

[xdavidscenex]

sell it.

[BTEC]

depends on what ur looking for as far as horse power, reliability, adjustability, and how much money u trying to spend. im sure theres more to take into consideration but those should keep u busy.

[chaseamundo]

depends on what ur looking for as far as horse power, reliability, adjustability, and how much money u trying to spend. im sure theres more to take into consideration but those should keep u busy.


lets say around 300 hp.
ofcourse i want reliablilty.as reliable as possible
i would also like to adjust if neccesary but dont see myself adjusting much. so a pretty set amount of power
and around 1000-2000....

[81911SC]

LOL never going to happen.

[BTEC]

lets say around 300 hp.
ofcourse i want reliablilty.as reliable as possible
i would also like to adjust if neccesary but dont see myself adjusting much. so a pretty set amount of power
and around 1000-2000....
check for an ebay kit, used kit, or get nitrous and a cool outfit.

[Catnip]

My hatch + 60 trim t3/t4 = sessi time in your pants :ninja:

[xdavidscenex]

evan your hatch with sc61 would be in the 11's. lol

[Catnip]

evan your hatch with sc61 would be in the 11's. lol
Iknorite

[xdavidscenex]

lets say around 300 hp.
ofcourse i want reliablilty.as reliable as possible
i would also like to adjust if neccesary but dont see myself adjusting much. so a pretty set amount of power
and around 1000-2000....

run a basic log setup with sc61:goodjob:

[TheGrillMan]

run a basic log setup with sc61:goodjob:





LOL @ your cat chowing down on that corn




/threadjack

[Barefoot]

search

[chaseamundo]

i mean thats what i want to spend.
but i know their not cheap and willing to fork it up for the results....
just dont know which route to take

[teh_mugen18]

I would also take into account your driving ability/self-control... If you can handle a car with some really crazy power and prefer it over a low amount of forced induction, then go with turbo... But, if you don't feel you would be able to control yourself in daily driving situations or deal with having that kind of power under your belt, then stick with a supercharger.

[chaseamundo]

I would also take into account your driving ability/self-control... If you can handle a car with some really crazy power and prefer it over a low amount of forced induction, then go with turbo... But, if you don't feel you would be able to control yourself in daily driving situations or deal with having that kind of power under your belt, then stick with a supercharger.

i think i have good control.....:thinking:
but pretty much turbo walks all over supercharging?

[Catnip]

i think i have good control.....:thinking:
but pretty much turbo walks all over supercharging?


Turbos are all different sizes.
A T25 turbo will spool quickly but won't yield too much power. Whereas a 60 trim t3/t4 will take longer to spool, but make great power up top. Get what I mean, it's just depends on what you go with.

[JKOBD]

Whether you decide on super or turbocharging, its not going to happen on a 1-2k budget.

[chaseamundo]

Whether you decide on super or turbocharging, its not going to happen on a 1-2k budget.
ok got that.
i already said im willin to throw down some more money. just dont know which route to take.... :thinking:

[civicsol]

supercharge is more reliable in the long run

[Catnip]

Whether you decide on super or turbocharging, its not going to happen on a 1-2k budget.

You're full of shit.

My brother and friend both turbo'd their B16's with all name brand parts (including new headgaskets, ARP head studs, innovative wibebands, etc) with under $2k.

[Catnip]

supercharge is more reliable in the long run


Compared to what? A t25 on 5 psi on nearly anything will last damn near forever.

[ranger250x]

has everything been taken into account i.e. how much boost, fuel delivery and management, intercooled or not, do you plan on upgrading in the future. generally when i have seen others ask about keeping a certain budget they are told to double it. also when ever something goes wrong in a boosted aplication, small problems can sometime magnify into buget busting repairs. im sure there are boosted honda forums that will have a wealth of info and possibly a for sale section with good deals on used parts inside.

[Motivation]

supercharge is more reliable in the long run

Let's try to give accurate information, shall we?

I have seen turbo cars run forever, it just depends on how it is treated. The BIGGEST things on ANY car, especially "force induction", is maintaining it properly, TUNING, TUNING, and TUNING. With a shitty tune, the FI pretty much means nothing. For the price, on a B18, I would go with a turbo.... On a turbo, there is a higher amount of HP per lbs. of boost. On a supercharger, if you want to up the boost you can't just do that by turning a knob or pressing a button. Also, with a B18, there are so many products out there to turbo it, it would be more cost efficient to go that route.


Also, you CAN turbo a car for 1k-2k, just have to look around. Try piecing together a turbo kit, it may come out less expensive.

[chaseamundo]

Let's try to give accurate information, shall we?

I have seen turbo cars run forever, it just depends on how it is treated. The BIGGEST things on ANY car, especially "force induction", is maintaining it properly, TUNING, TUNING, and TUNING. With a shitty tune, the FI pretty much means nothing. For the price, on a B18, I would go with a turbo.... On a turbo, there is a higher amount of HP per lbs. of boost. On a supercharger, if you want to up the boost you can't just do that by turning a knob or pressing a button. Also, with a B18, there are so many products out there to turbo it, it would be more cost efficient to go that route.


Also, you CAN turbo a car for 1k-2k, just have to look around. Try piecing together a turbo kit, it may come out less expensive.


thanks so much ....really helps...
and thanks cgevan

[Bruce Leroy]

Be different... get a jrsc and spray it.

[chaseamundo]

Be different... get a jrsc and spray it.

idk about spray..... give me info on it. cost, effects,installation, where to fill , how long it work until refill etc.
hurt the engine?

[teh_mugen18]

Spray is usually bad on piston rings.....No compression = no boosting for you.

[scttydb411]

lets say around 300 hp.
ofcourse i want reliablilty.as reliable as possible
i would also like to adjust if neccesary but dont see myself adjusting much. so a pretty set amount of power
and around 1000-2000....

you pretty much answered your question right there...turbo.

for those that say turbo is not reliable...reliable is dependent on quality of kit, install, tuning, and end user. price can also be a non-issue.

for example:
i built a basic junk yard setup in my garage almost 6 years ago on stock internals and it's still going, making 160+whp OVER stock (about 11hp/lb of boost, most of it's life it's been around 120whp over stock). results will vary and i would say this is an extreme example. most jrsc kits will only yield about 7hp/psi if you try to really spin it to 10psi (which is the max i would recommend, unless you get the lht intercooled manifold which will add $1k to your budget). with a jrsc you're limited to about 70-100whp over stock (not going to see 300whp with that).

$2k either way will be hard unless you do it yourself. make sure you know what you're getting into and don't skimp/cut corners on the turbo...and be careful who you buy a used turbo from (i've seen some real dogs).

[chaseamundo]

you pretty much answered your question right there...turbo.

for those that say turbo is not reliable...reliable is dependent on quality of kit, install, tuning, and end user. price can also be a non-issue.

for example:
i built a basic junk yard setup in my garage almost 6 years ago on stock internals and it's still going, making 160+whp OVER stock (about 11hp/lb of boost, most of it's life it's been around 120whp over stock). results will vary and i would say this is an extreme example. most jrsc kits will only yield about 7hp/psi if you try to really spin it to 10psi (which is the max i would recommend, unless you get the lht intercooled manifold which will add $1k to your budget). with a jrsc you're limited to about 70-100whp over stock (not going to see 300whp with that).

$2k either way will be hard unless you do it yourself. make sure you know what you're getting into and don't skimp/cut corners on the turbo...and be careful who you buy a used turbo from (i've seen some real dogs).

thanks fore the help. while we are on the subject,

what makes a complete turbo kit?
all the way from turbo to intercooler and between...?

[scttydb411]

thanks fore the help. while we are on the subject,

what makes a complete turbo kit?
all the way from turbo to intercooler and between...?

manifold
wastegate (some turbo are internally gated and part of the turbo)
turbo
charge piping
silicone couplers
fmic
t-bolt clamps
oil feed and return lines kit
coolant lines (if the turbo is water cooled)
bov
injectors
resistorbox (if you're using peak and hold injectors)
chipped ecu
boost gauge (recommended, but not essential)
colder spark plugs (bkr7e at least)
vacuum line to connect bov, wastgate, and boost gauge.

[Catnip]

manifold
wastegate (some turbo are internally gated and part of the turbo)
turbo
charge piping
silicone couplers
fmic
t-bolt clamps
oil feed and return lines kit
coolant lines (if the turbo is water cooled)
bov
injectors
resistorbox (if you're using peak and hold injectors)
chipped ecu
boost gauge (recommended, but not essential)
colder spark plugs (bkr7e at least)
vacuum line to connect bov, wastgate, and boost gauge.

Not an essential, but ARP head studs are always a good reassurance as well.

[RJ's325ITS]

manifold
wastegate (some turbo are internally gated and part of the turbo)
turbo
charge piping
silicone couplers
fmic
t-bolt clamps
oil feed and return lines kit
coolant lines (if the turbo is water cooled)
bov
injectors
resistorbox (if you're using peak and hold injectors)
chipped ecu
boost gauge (recommended, but not essential)
colder spark plugs (bkr7e at least)
vacuum line to connect bov, wastgate, and boost gauge.

I think an EGT gauge and a wide band O2 sensor and well as the boost gauge is a *must*. IF you want to protect your investment, also helps to diagnostic issues faster.

[chaseamundo]

I think an EGT gauge and a wide band O2 sensor and well as the boost gauge is a *must*. IF you want to protect your investment, also helps to diagnostic issues faster.
What is:
ARP studs
EGT gauge
wide band o2 sensor?
how do they help diagnose

isnt charge piping just the piping holding the bost between turbo and intercooler etc.?

thanks for taking the time to explain this. i really appreciate it:goodjob:

[Catnip]

What is:
ARP studs
EGT gauge
wide band o2 sensor?
how do they help diagnose

isnt charge piping just the piping holding the bost between turbo and intercooler etc.?

thanks for taking the time to explain this. i really appreciate it:goodjob:


ARP head studs are just stronger hardware holding the head to the block.

A wideband shows the air to fuel ratio (rich or lean, lean = melting stuff, rich = not at power potential and 'wasting' gas)

EGT if i remember correctly is just exhaust gas temperatures... tells how the motor is running.

[chaseamundo]

good deal
so how much boost can i run on stock internals...

how would i "build" it properly to up boost pressure?

[Catnip]

good deal
so how much boost can i run on stock internals...

how would i "build" it properly to up boost pressure?


The b18c?
I'd say 11-12 psi with a new headgasket and head studs, of course properly tuned. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You could have the block sleeved, billet rods, forged pistons, race bearings, arp rod bolts/head studs, valves, etc and it would hold and assload of boost.

[chaseamundo]

same if it were a b16a2?

and how much $$$ we lookin at here to build.

and if you build it will their be a noticable change in power without booost?

[Catnip]

same if it were a b16a2?

and how much $$$ we lookin at here to build.

and if you build it will their be a noticable change in power without booost?

Personally, I wouldn't put more than 7-8 psi on an unbuilt B16a.
Not sure on a money though, price out everything I mentioned and add a grand. My buddy has a sleeved B18c1 block for sale... I think he wants under $1k for it.

[chaseamundo]

link.....

[Catnip]

link.....

PM patrick4588


slap your b16a head on the b18c1 block and a twin scroll ball bearing GT35r ;)

[chaseamundo]

PM patrick4588


slap your b16a head on the b18c1 block and a twin scroll ball bearing GT35r ;)

hey...good idea:cheers: :goodjob:

[japan4racing]

blah...just go ahead and buy patty's block and my built gsr head and boost the shit out of it...

[xdavidscenex]

blah...just go ahead and buy patty's block and my built gsr head and boost the shit out of it...

a man.

[patrick4588]

i want 500 for the block. got eagle rods for it too. 200 for them. i would get a shop to assemble everything for you and do the work. jjspec is gray, GA has an 8 sec civic; im sure they would love to help you out.

[chaseamundo]

PM patrick4588


slap your b16a head on the b18c1 block and a twin scroll ball bearing GT35r ;)

explain to me how the whole mismatching blocks and heads works...

[scttydb411]

that list i posted was bare bones. all the other parts suggestions are good too, but the op is looking for an inexpensive and simple beginning.

[SPOOLIN]

i want 500 for the block. got eagle rods for it too. 200 for them. i would get a shop to assemble everything for you and do the work. jjspec is gray, GA has an 8 sec civic; im sure they would love to help you out.

There is not an 8 sec civic in georgia.

to the OP, ive had a supercharged street car, a 400 hp street car, and a 600 hp street car, now i have an 750ish hp drag car and a soon to be super charged street car stock internal. Can't beat the SIMPLE fun of a supercharger and stock motor....but, a 300hp turbo civic is so fun on the streets lol.

[RJ's325ITS]

There is not an 8 sec civic in georgia.

to the OP, ive had a supercharged street car, a 400 hp street car, and a 600 hp street car, now i have an 750ish hp drag car and a soon to be super charged street car stock internal. Can't beat the SIMPLE fun of a supercharger and stock motor....but, a 300hp turbo civic is so fun on the streets lol.

Why a SC w/ stock internals is more fun that a Turbo w/ stock internals?:???:

I thought psi was an universal measuring system?

If it is a lag issue? I think an all time boost turbp set-up will beat / out run & out perform any supercharger :goodjob:

[SPOOLIN]

well im talking about simplicity and maintenance, the whole picture. Turbo will make more power than a SC PSI for PSI no doubt. PSI is standard but with psi, theres CFM and with CFM that involves what size unit you are utilizing. 15 psi with one turbo can make 375hp, but 15psi with a bigger turbo will make 550.

[scttydb411]

not to mention iat changing things too.

[-S Double C-]

i can get you a brand new FULL XS Power ramhorn kit with a 57trim t3/t4 for 700 if you want a cheaper kit. I made 337whp on my old boosted gsr EK hatch on 11lbs tuned by John Vega. Comes with everything needed.

[RJ's325ITS]

well im talking about simplicity and maintenance, the whole picture. Turbo will make more power than a SC PSI for PSI no doubt.

A turbo kit will be a lot simpler to maintain and service... also way more reliable than any SC. That's is why most ALMS cars run turbos and not SCs. Also it's been proven that SCs wear engine faster than turbos, and we all know that turbos are more efficient.

You got to LOVE heat soaking.....



PSI is standard but with psi, theres CFM and with CFM that involves what size unit you are utilizing. 15 psi with one turbo can make 375hp, but 15psi with a bigger turbo will make 550.

Like I said IF you put together a good turbo kit iwill perform the same SC kit; even when the blower and the turbine are rated to move the same rate of air.....

We have a car that has been running down vetts, vipers and porsches in RA for over 3 years now, and never give us any problems.... nothing but oil changes and lot of brake pads :rolleyes:

Is all about piecing the right turbo kit for the right application.

[chaseamundo]

i can get you a brand new FULL XS Power ramhorn kit with a 57trim t3/t4 for 700 if you want a cheaper kit. I made 337whp on my old boosted gsr EK hatch on 11lbs tuned by John Vega. Comes with everything needed.

is this a good turbo kit?
reliable?
performance?:thinking:

[patrick4588]

There is not an 8 sec civic in georgia.

its gotten into the low 9s on the old setup; with the new stuff it should hit the 8s. granted it hasnt posted the slip, but it should. i was simply stating they know what they are doing.

[-S Double C-]

is this a good turbo kit?
reliable?
performance?:thinking:

yeah its fine, i sold my EK 2 years ago and its still running the same setup perfectly fine. He had to change the oil return line but other then that its doing great.

[SPOOLIN]

A turbo kit will be a lot simpler to maintain and service... also way more reliable than any SC. That's is why most ALMS cars run turbos and not SCs. Also it's been proven that SCs wear engine faster than turbos, and we all know that turbos are more efficient.

You got to LOVE heat soaking.....




Like I said IF you put together a good turbo kit iwill perform the same SC kit; even when the blower and the turbine are rated to move the same rate of air.....

We have a car that has been running down vetts, vipers and porsches in RA for over 3 years now, and never give us any problems.... nothing but oil changes and lot of brake pads :rolleyes:

Is all about piecing the right turbo kit for the right application.


I will disagree with you on the longevity of life on the SC, i will bet money that a JRSC will outlast most "similar sized" turbos on the market...even though it won't perform as high. You can feed me crap about ALMS and whatever but im talking about the daily beat, every day, giving it hell a good bit for the fun of it. Ive owned 9 turbos so i know a good bit about how things are built and serviced with them. Ive also owned super chargers etc. It has nothing to do with "piecing things together" A turbo is going to hold up the same no matter what wastegate or BOV you choose. Turbo life depends on tuning and how much boost you run on it on a consistent basis.

Ive had turbo setups that didnt give me a problem in a 2 year span and ive had a supercharger setup that didn't give me problems for 2 years, pick your poison and tune it properly.

[-S Double C-]

well spoken matt

[SPOOLIN]

all things aside if you want to make good power, get a turbo.

Theres no such thing as a SFWD supercharged car. haha

[RJ's325ITS]

I will disagree with you on the longevity of life on the SC, i will bet money that a JRSC will outlast most "similar sized" turbos on the market...even though it won't perform as high. You can feed me crap about ALMS and whatever but im talking about the daily beat, every day, giving it hell a good bit for the fun of it. Ive owned 9 turbos so i know a good bit about how things are built and serviced with them. Ive also owned super chargers etc. It has nothing to do with "piecing things together" A turbo is going to hold up the same no matter what wastegate or BOV you choose. Turbo life depends on tuning and how much boost you run on it on a consistent basis.

Ive had turbo setups that didnt give me a problem in a 2 year span and ive had a supercharger setup that didn't give me problems for 2 years, pick your poison and tune it properly.

We're going to have to agree to disagree....
If you want another good example about the reliability of a good turbo setup put together.... Look at turbo diesels and big rigs ALL are turbo set-ups, and I haven’t seen the first 18 wheeler towing 10 tons with a SC :no:I don’t think the engineers decided to chose the "turbo poison" over the supercharger..... Food for thought....

What I meant by piecing s set-up was..... Having a setup that all its components support each other and there are no weak links... from the right flow patter for the injectors, to having the right size of turbo were it stays within its efficiency rate most of the time.

There is a big misunderstanding in the tuner world.... Sometimes the bigger is not better and big numbers out of small turbos is not good. If you started like all of us going from one turbo size to the next... you should've realized by now that everything is engineer to meet "X" application, and that does not mean that they will perform out their set application, thus you have to sacrifice reliability for performance....

It's just a trade off, once again if you piece it together were your stay in their efficiency rate the turbo will out last the SC...

Don’t argue with me, its science and it's out there for all of us to learn from it.

[00CiViC00]

i put together a kit for around $ 700 with headstuds ....

[chaseamundo]

For a b18/b16 a smaller turbo to spool easier would be better......correct?

[SPOOLIN]

For a b18/b16 a smaller turbo to spool easier would be better......correct?

this all depends on your application for the car.

[chaseamundo]

what do you mean