Religion - Join in the fun!

[Maniacc]

Okay, who here is a member of a religious institution? Who believes in the Judaic-Christian-Muslim model of God, or a higher being who has a direct personal relationship with humans? Answer me these questions;

Do you believe in the periodic table of elements?
Do you believe in Evolution?
Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory?
Do you believe in the Universe?

If you've answered no to any of the questions above with any sort of decisiveness than I don't believe you're worthwhile.

If you've answered yes to the questions than think about this:

You believe this God created us through a series of highly elaborate near impossibly random series of events?

He created a fabric of space-time on which a singular element managed to concentrate enough to create a massive explosion and from this developed a hundred other elements and the interaction between those elements formed millions of galaxies which each contained thousands of solar systems which contained millions of suns each with several planets rotating around it's gravitational pull and on one of these miniscule planets there was an ideal amount of water and oxygen to sustain life.

And on this miniscule planet some bacteria formed and that bacteria adapted to it's environment and manifested into various forms, one of which had an ancestral link to human beings then through tens of thousands of years of evolution it transformed into the modern human being.

This god that created that highly elaborate complex series of events which incidentally produced some life on a tiny little planet in a tiny little solar system in one of billions of galaxies... This god cares about us? He created us in his image?

Does that not seem a little far-fetched to you? How can you honestly say you believe in the idea of a personal god who's managed to transcend conventional physics to create an ethereal alternate universe for us to exist in and say you also believe in or understand fundamental scientific concepts? They both logically contradict.

[TheGrillMan]

christianity FTL

[Thighs]

visual aid.

[TheGrillMan]

LOL @ using religion and login in the same sentance hahaha

[hakkoo]

yes. God did all of that... he's God after all. that shit barely took a week and on the seventh day he still had time to rub one out and take a nap... big bang... evolution... all God's idea. there is nothing in science that excludes the possibility of creation. oh and mexican Jesus died for our sins... remember that everyone.

[EJ25RUN]

visual aid.

Wow, that picture is so accurate. :Saved:

[PURP]

I took a dump 10 minutes ago...

[TheGrillMan]

prove it....

[PURP]

prove it....

PROVE TO ME I DIDN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...lol

[TheGrillMan]

damn



touche

[PURP]

damn



touche


lol.../threadjack

[TheGrillMan]

reped everyone here btw

[OneSlow5pt0]

whatever will help people be better human beings,than im for it.

now,i dont need someone telling me how to live,i know whats right and wrong....but some people need it fed to them.

[quickdodge®]

Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

LINK!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgCjO51d8jw&NR=1)

Later, QD.

[TheGrillMan]

lol @ kathy

[Maniacc]

By join in the fun I didn't mean this. But a religion thread does deliver some nice lulz. I'd like for someone to argue with me. Anyone who disagrees with my op post up. And as for the threadjacking that can stop now.

[Vteckidd]

Im agnostic, which means i dont believe God exists but i dont believe he DOESNT exist either.

Having said that, you cant argue with people of faith, because its about a BELIEF SYSTEM.

You are arguing OPINIONS. YOu can sit here and have scientific proof God Doesnt exist, but if someone believes he does, there is nothing you can do to change that.

Its like if you say you dont believe in the color Blue. I cant sit there and tell you that blue does exist, show you the color, etc . If you believe strongly that it doesnt exist, no amount of information will change that belief.

I think tolerance is more of a usefull tool than trying to disprove people. I TOLERATE religous people, they dont bother me, i dont care what they do, but i also dont want them forcing their beliefs on me.

I hate when they think they are better than me because they go to church.

I dont believe in heaven or hell. If there is one, i would like to think that "god" would judge you as a person, not whether you went to church or not.

[Maniacc]

Im agnostic, which means i dont believe God exists but i dont believe he DOESNT exist either.

Having said that, you cant argue with people of faith, because its about a BELIEF SYSTEM.

You are arguing OPINIONS. YOu can sit here and have scientific proof God Doesnt exist, but if someone believes he does, there is nothing you can do to change that.

Its like if you say you dont believe in the color Blue. I cant sit there and tell you that blue does exist, show you the color, etc . If you believe strongly that it doesnt exist, no amount of information will change that belief.

I think tolerance is more of a usefull tool than trying to disprove people. I TOLERATE religous people, they dont bother me, i dont care what they do, but i also dont want them forcing their beliefs on me.

I hate when they think they are better than me because they go to church.

I dont believe in heaven or hell. If there is one, i would like to think that "god" would judge you as a person, not whether you went to church or not.
After the many threads that I've made over the past about religion I've come to realize that my words fall of deaf ears. I can't change anyone - and I don't try to. What I really care about is seeing someone actually give me something other than excuses about their religion and why they think it's based on truth.

People like me on the real only do this for one thing... and that is entertainment.

But I understand your point of view on this. I didn't know you were agnostic.

[Vteckidd]

Well look at the nitty gritty of it all.

People believe in GOD not because of facts or truth. they do it because of many things. Some of it is society, some of it is wanting to beleive there is something bigger than yourself, etc.

Most real christians will tell you that they believe in GOD or a higher power not based on factual information, just on faith.

Some people will say cause the "bible" says so, but i dont believe a book that was written 1000s of years ago. What is more plausible, the burning bush was god really talking, or was a primitive "human" not knowing the difference between fire and "voices".

I mean all ancient civilations believed in some form of "god" hierarchy whether it was the pagans, greeks, romans, etc. Why ?

Im just saying most christians wont believe in evolution, or care if there is scientific facts pointing to it. They wont believe in the Big Bang theory. They believe life sprung from Adam and Eve. God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th, yada yada yada

Its impossible to prove someone wrong when its something they believe

[revsk8erdude]

this is very usefull video to help make up anyones mind who is "on the fence" with the subject..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

there is a second video in this series called zeitgeist:addendum.

i urge anyone who wants to help the human race evolve and prosipre to watch both and become involved in the movement.

[quickdodge®]

i urge anyone who wants to help the human race evolve and prosipre to watch both and become involved in the movement.

Anything that is referred to as a "movement" I stay miles away from. Later, QD.

[IMPORTchic]

<<<<Brought up in a baptist church and date a preachers son and this shiiit STILL confuses me. All this controversy in the world makes me wonder?

I need some Advil now....ughhh....lol

[RL...]

I believe in a divine spirit. But religion is humanity's greatest downfall ever. All religion does is separate us into different groups, and teaches us that our natural inclinations are bad.

[09ssturbo]

its not just religion that does that, invisible borders do the same thing...most of what separates people is the things we cant see..kinda funny....sry just thought id throw that in..lol

[ISAtlanta300]

"The biggest misunderstanding between believers and non-believers starts with the argument of who or what 'God' really is..."

[quickdodge®]

starts with the argument of who or what 'God' really is..."

AND, much to many people's dismay, He is not me. Later, QD.

[man]

AND, much to many people's relief, He is not me. Later, QD.

fixed

[quickdodge®]

fixed

Nah, I had it right the first time. Later, QD.

[man]

this is very usefull video to help make up anyones mind who is "on the fence" with the subject..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

there is a second video in this series called zeitgeist:addendum.

i urge anyone who wants to help the human race evolve and prosipre to watch both and become involved in the movement.

Evolve and prosper how? Sounds like you're just as ignorant as religious freaks...

[quickdodge®]

Evolve and prosper how? Sounds like you're just as ignorant as religious freaks...

That's why I made the remark I made on his post. Sounds like he should be in Texas or California in some cult. Later, QD.

[Blitanicle99]

this is very usefull video to help make up anyones mind who is "on the fence" with the subject..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

there is a second video in this series called zeitgeist:addendum.

i urge anyone who wants to help the human race evolve and prosipre to watch both and become involved in the movement.


Zeitgeist? Haha. Seriously? Wow.

Its so easy to show that to people that have never had real religion in their life and have them convinced.

Here, you want to learn something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1yrmyQp_6c

Dr. William Craig. I have seen him personally many times. He does quite a few talks for my Church. He is known all over the country. First time I saw him a few kids I went to high school with showed up because they wanted to drill him for questions and in their thoughts eventually stump him. Well at the end of the show both of those kids picked up one of his books, thanked him for everything and apologized for trying to pull something like that.


Not pressing anything on you, but damn this guy can explain things that not many can.

[RL...]

I ONLY PRAY TO THE CAR GODS!!!! OVERNIGHT PARTS FROM JAPAN FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crazy Asian]

Most science shit I hate because for me they collide on theories. Every freaking time I ask my professor about how one theory and that it goes against the other theory they go ballistic. Fawk for me I just cant believe that a big bang shit happened. Too hard too believe.

[RL...]

Most science shit I hate because for me they collide on theories. Every freaking time I ask my professor about how one theory and that it goes against the other theory they go ballistic. Fawk for me I just cant believe that a big bang shit happened. Too hard too believe.

The zeitgeist movies do bring about some interesting points. Definitely worth a watch IMO.

The idea that christianity is purely alagorical astrological symbolism is intrigueing....lots of coincidences......

[AirMax95]

You can attempt to discredit religion, but you are not getting anywhere. In the end, man is arguing a theory that man made; which was further "proved" by man.

[Blitanicle99]

You can attempt to discredit religion, but you are not getting anywhere. In the end, man is arguing a theory that man made; which was further "proved" by man.

Well said sir!:goodjob:

[Thighs]

why would anyone care to prove christians wrong anyways? to them, its a good thing and as long as in some way it can make them a a better person, they can do what they want. i guess i could say im agnostic too because, theres no 100% PROOF against either side of this argument. its like kidd said, you cant prove an opinion wrong when its based on a BELIEF.

[white24d]

No one on this earth knows exactly what happens when we die, no one. Who am I to say that what a Muslim believes in is wrong. I am not an Atheist nor consider myself a Christian, but I think there is a something. Not sure and no one will find out until their end. I honestly cant see a guy sitting in "heaven" listening to everyone's prayers all at once and performing miracles. These jokers on tv who hit each other on the head and "heal" the sick are completely full of shit. Religion is what each person makes of it.

[AirMax95]

No one on this earth knows exactly what happens when we die, no one. Who am I to say that what a Muslim believes in is wrong. I am not an Atheist nor consider myself a Christian, but I think there is a something. Not sure and no one will find out until their end. I honestly cant see a guy sitting in "heaven" listening to everyone's prayers all at once and performing miracles. These jokers on tv who hit each other on the head and "heal" the sick are completely full of shit. Religion is what each person makes of it.

They are the ones that are really getting to me. Exploiting religion, playing off peoples ignorance and hardships. Them, along with the people who TELL you that you are going to hell for what you do in your life. Those poeple are "off the deep end" and are severly misguided.

If you don't believe, then don't. If you do believe, then do you.

[stephen]

You can attempt to discredit religion, but you are not getting anywhere. In the end, man is arguing a theory that man made; which was further "proved" by man.


that's the best statement i've seen in regards to religion.

what's ironic is, i was browsing youtube earlier and i ran across a few clips from this guy...one of which related to religion/evolution. i found it a little funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxzxhmbb3II&feature=channel

[hakkoo]

maybe god inserted "imperical evidence" behind everything for those people who might not believe but still left enough mystery for them to question things...

i think it's dangerous to put so much weight into science...what if we find out in a few years that scientists' attitudes or energy can actually effect the outcomes of experiments? most of the time they research something to prove a theory they have so in their minds the outcome is almost set already.

In a related note, when someone breaks an "unbreakable" world record, say for the fastest mile ran, how come it becomes easier for other runners to do it after the news gets out? for years people who run for a sport all accept it as unbreakable, but as soon as one guy doesn't and breaks it other runners' minds open and they too can achieve what was once thought impossible...look into this.

so does that suggest we create our own reality? if so, again i caution into limiting ourselves by investing so much in science...

And let me also add that God can neither be proven nor disproven and, IMO, never will be. the idea of a creator makes no sense, for who created God? did the chicken come before the egg, you get the idea. i've been asked if I believe in God, and said no. Then if people ask if i can be absolutely certain God does not exist, iwill also say no, putting me into the weak atheist/strong agnostic category.

i have a problem with all religions because every one that i have done even the slightest bit of research on requires its followers to accept impossibilities as fact. Once more, God, can never be proven or disproven... definitively yeah.. but, intellectually bankrupt people always ask...

"well who do you think created x? What came before x?" as if there's something substantial in what they're saying and whenever something in their precious religious scriptures is emphatically disproven they just go... "oh yeah, it's not meant to be interpreted literally, you see God was just putting it in terms that we humans could understand, if he tried to explain it to us coherently we'd bleed to death from the sheer awesomeness".

God can't be dis/proven, but the Christian-Muslim-Jewish model of god is redundant like thousands that came before it.

Hmmm... my high is starting to subside.

[onebadgt]

i for one cant awnser any of the questions or statements made but i believe that everyone is entitlet to their own beliefs. me personally. i do trust in god, ive been through many things in my life that no science could prove why so i let my faith tell me what happened.

yes i have many questions that make me wonder, if their is a god how did this happen but in the end i look at it like this

if you live a good life and except god and you die and there is no god what did it hurt.

but if you live your life in sin and no exceptence of god, and when you die you find out their is a god then your up a big creek without a paddle.

i wont condemn ppl for their beliefs no matter what they are, and i hope everyone else is the same and doesnt flame up on my post!:goodjob:

[AirMax95]

i for one cant awnser any of the questions or statements made but i believe that everyone is entitlet to their own beliefs. me personally. i do trust in god, ive been through many things in my life that no science could prove why so i let my faith tell me what happened.

yes i have many questions that make me wonder, if their is a god how did this happen but in the end i look at it like this

if you live a good life and except god and you die and there is no god what did it hurt.

but if you live your life in sin and no exceptence of god, and when you die you find out their is a god then your up a big creek without a paddle.

i wont condemn ppl for their beliefs no matter what they are, and i hope everyone else is the same and doesnt flame up on my post!:goodjob:

Excellent post sir :goodjob:

[BIG WORM]

this very may sound retarded, but consider religion like car insurance for a moment.

The majority have car insurance, no one wants to wreck their ride, but if they do, they are covered.

The ones that don't have car insurance, may be able to get around for awhile, but sooner or later someone will hit you, you will hit someone, or you will get pulled over.

The majority of the world believes in One God. (Muslims, Jews, Christians) True believers believe in God so much that they are willing to die for it. If they die and go to heaven, they were right. If they die and nothing happens so what?! At least they had a back up plan, just in case.

So to me it's stupid to not include religion in your life. All forms of humans have always believed in some kind of higher power, until the last hundred years or so. Why would someone risk not having a back up plan?

It's like not having car insurance, sure you might be right, you may not wreck your car tonight, but what if you do, are you confident you're not going to get in some kind of trouble for it? Of course not.

Question is are you as confident with all your heart that their is "no God" are you willing to die for that belief? If the religious are right, you will burn in hell for eternity. If they are wrong, nothing happens.

To sum this up, you have the option to have religion in your life, the same way you have the option to have car insurance, and it goes the same, If you don't have insurance, I hope you don't get caught tonight, and If you don't have religion, may you not die tonight.

[RL...]

this very may sound retarded, but consider religion like car insurance for a moment.
True believers believe in God so much that they are willing to die for it. If they die and go to heaven, they were right. If they die and nothing happens so what?! At least they had a back up plan, just in case.

WTF That is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a while. That is a horrible reason to have faith in GOD/religion. LOL For a backup plan!:lmfao:

[onebadgt]

WTF That is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a while. That is a horrible reason to have faith in GOD/religion. LOL For a backup plan!:lmfao:

you say that now, but maybe in the end there will be nothing. but if there is a heaven and hell, then you may have wished you had a idiotic back up plan!:goodjob:

[Maniacc]

The majority of the world believes in One God. (Muslims, Jews, Christians) True believers believe in God so much that they are willing to die for it. If they die and go to heaven, they were right. If they die and nothing happens so what?! At least they had a back up plan, just in case.

Willing to die in so many ways - take suicide bombers. I'm sure they love their God oh so bad now huh? Where are they right now in your opinion? Hell or Heaven? I mean, in their eyes they're not doing anything wrong but to others their evil terrorists. Haha, Big Worm, your religion "analogy" is pathetic.

Car insurance? Now, we have to pay a fee of X amount of money a month just to be safe and to have a back up plan just in case something goes wrong, eh? Dude, come on.



So to me it's stupid to not include religion in your life. All forms of humans have always believed in some kind of higher power, until the last hundred years or so. Why would someone risk not having a back up plan?

And to me, it's stupid to include religion in your life. You don't need it nor do you need to waste your time on some imaginary just to 'be on the safe side.' I for one do believe in something higer, something that we can't comprehend.

Is it a God? No, is it some guy who walked around 2000 something years ago? No. I don't know what it is so I'd rather not put a name to it. Make sense? Or should I go ahead and post a figure of what I think it is?



Question is are you as confident with all your heart that their is "no God" are you willing to die for that belief? If the religious are right, you will burn in hell for eternity. If they are wrong, nothing happens.

I'm not willing to die for shit because I'm not a crazy ass lunatic.

Only religious nut cases go to that extreme. Why the hell should I do such ridiculous shit just to prove a point? Hahaha, religious people get asked the same question all the time. And what do they answer with? "Uhh, well, Jesus Christ still has a plan for me blah blah." Why can't they just say their a bunch of pussies and move on with their lifes?



To sum this up, you have the option to have religion in your life, the same way you have the option to have car insurance, and it goes the same, If you don't have insurance, I hope you don't get caught tonight, and If you don't have religion, may you not die tonight.

Are the "Evil Spirits" the police in this analogy? What if you do have car insurance and you fuck up? You're not covered - you have to pay. So if religion is like that - do you have to pay in, which way? Money, time in hell? Please tell me, I'm curious.

And also, you have many car insurance companies.
How do I know I will get covered as good as the other company? Would I be safer with a certain one then I would be with another?

I don't know about you man but I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

[onebadgt]

i can respect your beliefs, but of course i dont agree with them and i feel sorry for you in the end!

[Maniacc]

i can respect your beliefs, but of course i dont agree with them and i feel sorry for you in the end!
You shouldn't feel sorry for me. I'm happy - I live a pretty good life. I do no wrong, I'm a good son, a good friend. No need to feel sorry for me.

I'm perfectly happy without religion.

[AirMax95]

You shouldn't feel sorry for me. I'm happy - I live a pretty good life. I do no wrong, I'm a good son, a good friend. No need to feel sorry for me.

I'm perfectly happy without religion.

Cool, but why bash normal people who follow their chosen religion? Im not talking about the loons that blow up stuff in "god's" name either.

There are just as many idiots that dont follow religion, as ones that do.

[Maniacc]

Cool, but why bash normal people who follow their chosen religion? Im not talking about the loons that blow up stuff in "god's" name either.

There are just as many idiots that dont follow religion, as ones that do.
I'm not bashing. What I'm doing is just trying to get a sense of intellect in religious peoples' argument. I wanna test out their knowledge. If they so happen to not know anything then I bash on their stupidity. But others, I end up respecting.

[AirMax95]

I see your point. Poeple should not follow, or rather accept completely, things which they do not understand.

I read your OP, and I posted my piece about it.

[C-loS109]

so i need to see it to believe, if theres a god he needs to come to me.

i dont know where i stand religiously since i was born a catholic but since ive thought for myself i think its just a chain of lies. how do u know the bible wasnt created in somebodys basement as a way of fighting boredom, anybody could make up stories and such. but i do believe there was a jesus but i dont think he was the son of a so called god. i think he was more like to the people of those times like a pope is to us. (i dont know if that made sense)

here is an example of contradiction between science and religion. "God" created earth in 7 days, but yet science shows that creatures existed million years apart. another one, adam and eve "humans" created the human population (and if u think about it, if this was true, there was a shitton of incest involved in this) and yet again, science shows evolution and "lucy" which is the first hominid which was discover about 4 million years ago shows otherwise. she was 3 feet tall about 30 pounds and resembles what chimpanzees look like today.

edit ( i left some stuff out )

i think christians and catholics believe in an end where everybody is pardon for their sins and they pretty much live a happy ever after. what happens to the people who arent catholics or christians, what happens to the people before christ. it makes no senseeee! but i respect ur faith and whatever rocks ur boat is cool.

[quickdodge®]

Later, QD.

[BIG WORM]

Willing to die in so many ways - take suicide bombers. I'm sure they love their God oh so bad now huh? Where are they right now in your opinion? Hell or Heaven? I mean, in their eyes they're not doing anything wrong but to others their evil terrorists. Haha, Big Worm, your religion "analogy" is pathetic.

Car insurance? Now, we have to pay a fee of X amount of money a month just to be safe and to have a back up plan just in case something goes wrong, eh? Dude, come on.




And to me, it's stupid to include religion in your life. You don't need it nor do you need to waste your time on some imaginary just to 'be on the safe side.' I for one do believe in something higer, something that we can't comprehend.

Is it a God? No, is it some guy who walked around 2000 something years ago? No. I don't know what it is so I'd rather not put a name to it. Make sense? Or should I go ahead and post a figure of what I think it is?




I'm not willing to die for shit because I'm not a crazy ass lunatic.

Only religious nut cases go to that extreme. Why the hell should I do such ridiculous shit just to prove a point? Hahaha, religious people get asked the same question all the time. And what do they answer with? "Uhh, well, Jesus Christ still has a plan for me blah blah." Why can't they just say their a bunch of pussies and move on with their lifes?




Are the "Evil Spirits" the police in this analogy? What if you do have car insurance and you fuck up? You're not covered - you have to pay. So if religion is like that - do you have to pay in, which way? Money, time in hell? Please tell me, I'm curious.

And also, you have many car insurance companies.
How do I know I will get covered as good as the other company? Would I be safer with a certain one then I would be with another?

I don't know about you man but I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

well you're obviously curious, or in search of the truth, otherwise you wouldn't analyze this so much. You even put "banned from heaven" under your name, I guess to stand out, or for attention.

But let me ask you this, You say you don't believe in God, so does that mean you don't believe in Satan? Religion is all just a joke right? So why don't you yourself challenge Satan? If it's not true you have nothing to loose. Because obviously none of us are going to change your mind.

[AirMax95]

well you're obviously curious, or in search of the truth, otherwise you wouldn't analyze this so much. You even put "banned from heaven" under your name, I guess to stand out, or for attention.

But let me ask you this, You say you don't believe in God, so does that mean you don't believe in Satan? Religion is all just a joke right? So why don't you yourself challenge Satan? If it's not true you have nothing to loose. Because obviously none of us are going to change your mind.

Good point, because with the OP's logic, all of it is mythical.

Give Satan a ring as ask him, lol.

[fivex684]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/fivex84/Random/collegehumorc18ef8cc9ccc9a6e4435b8f.jpg

[Maniacc]

well you're obviously curious, or in search of the truth, otherwise you wouldn't analyze this so much. You even put "banned from heaven" under your name, I guess to stand out, or for attention.

In search of the truth, eh? Not at all. I'm almost positive that I'm close to knowing it already. Using logic is the key.

Haha, and thanks for pointing out my bFh trade mark. I've used that since 2006. But I never used it in hopes that I'd get special attention... I mean, I don't see where you're going with by bringing that up. But if you think it'll help your case than kept at it.



But let me ask you this, You say you don't believe in God, so does that mean you don't believe in Satan? Religion is all just a joke right? So why don't you yourself challenge Satan? If it's not true you have nothing to loose. Because obviously none of us are going to change your mind.

I don't believe in Satan and religion is all just a joke - that's exactly right. Or at least to me it is.

And challenge Satan? If you read around you'll notice that I have already done research on Satanism and am pretty educated when it comes to it. But I don't worship Satan... I just enjoy reading new forms of religion. To increase my knowledge on the subject ya know.

[BIG WORM]

Sounds like you just want to argue about all of it. I don't care to argue. To me you're just some guy behind a computer. If you were a personal friend I might be more prone to debate. But I will play a bit...

You say you know the truth, but in reality none of us know anything. All we have is history, statistics, and faith...oh, and of course (cough, cough) science.

What is questioned about Jesus, is the fact that he rose from the grave on the 3rd day. History tells us that Jesus was real, he did exist, he was a great prophet. Even those without religion recognize this. Jesus was far more popular than any L. Ron Hubbard, Charles Darwin, or Bill Maher. So why is it so hard for you to accept that people follow him?

Earlier in this thread, it was stated that you will not change anyone's faith with this thread, which I agree with as well. With that being said, you (the OP) either created the thread; because you are curious of the truth, or you need attention. Me personally, I think it's both.

As I stated earlier, statistically the odds are against you. More of the world believes in something rather than nothing. So if you take odds into consideration, you're in the dark. You believing in nothing, is about as smart as someone that put their entire paycheck on the Detroit Lions winning a game last season. The odds are against you. If you accepted that the odds were against you, this thread wouldn't be here. So that leaves you making this thread to "stand out against the rest," to be "different." Kind of like the kid in high school that said he dyed his hair purple because he believed, that chicks dug it.

In both religion and science, there is one question that can never be answered here on Earth. In religion it's "If God created everything, who created God?" which religion responds with, "That is a question that only God can answer."

In science, Who, or what created the "ingredients" (for lack of a better word) needed for the big bang? They were not just here! How did it get here? There is not an answer, nor a way to find the answer. No one to ask when you die, because science has no religion, nor can you attempt to communicate with the dead to find out, because that would be a form of religion. So any man with common sense, would not play against the odds, it's stupid.

And with all of that in mind why don't you denounce religion some more, by giving me all your money, for the simple reason of it having "In God We Trust" printed on it.

[AirMax95]

You can attempt to discredit religion, but you are not getting anywhere. In the end, man is arguing a theory that man made; which was further "proved" by man.

I will quote myself :D

[BIG WORM]

so i need to see it to believe, if theres a god he needs to come to me.

i dont know where i stand religiously since i was born a catholic but since ive thought for myself i think its just a chain of lies. how do u know the bible wasnt created in somebodys basement as a way of fighting boredom, anybody could make up stories and such. but i do believe there was a jesus but i dont think he was the son of a so called god. i think he was more like to the people of those times like a pope is to us. (i dont know if that made sense)

here is an example of contradiction between science and religion. "God" created earth in 7 days, but yet science shows that creatures existed million years apart. another one, adam and eve "humans" created the human population (and if u think about it, if this was true, there was a shitton of incest involved in this) and yet again, science shows evolution and "lucy" which is the first hominid which was discover about 4 million years ago shows otherwise. she was 3 feet tall about 30 pounds and resembles what chimpanzees look like today.

edit ( i left some stuff out )

i think christians and catholics believe in an end where everybody is pardon for their sins and they pretty much live a happy ever after. what happens to the people who arent catholics or christians, what happens to the people before christ. it makes no senseeee! but i respect ur faith and whatever rocks ur boat is cool.

You should read more, enroll in school or something..you have it all wrong.

The OP is educated enough to argue with, but you statement is too easy to shut down.

[Maniacc]

Sounds like you just want to argue about all of it. I don't care to argue. To me you're just some guy behind a computer. If you were a personal friend I might be more prone to debate. But I will play a bit...

You say you know the truth, but in reality none of us know anything. All we have is history, statistics, and faith...oh, and of course (cough, cough) science.

What is questioned about Jesus, is the fact that he rose from the grave on the 3rd day. History tells us that Jesus was real, he did exist, he was a great prophet. Even those without religion recognize this. Jesus was far more popular than any L. Ron Hubbard, Charles Darwin, or Bill Maher. So why is it so hard for you to accept that people follow him?

Earlier in this thread, it was stated that you will not change anyone's faith with this thread, which I agree with as well. With that being said, you (the OP) either created the thread; because you are curious of the truth, or you need attention. Me personally, I think it's both.

As I stated earlier, statistically the odds are against you. More of the world believes in something rather than nothing. So if you take odds into consideration, you're in the dark. You believing in nothing, is about as smart as someone that put their entire paycheck on the Detroit Lions winning a game last season. The odds are against you. If you accepted that the odds were against you, this thread wouldn't be here. So that leaves you making this thread to "stand out against the rest," to be "different." Kind of like the kid in high school that said he dyed his hair purple because he believed, that chicks dug it.

In both religion and science, there is one question that can never be answered here on Earth. In religion it's "If God created everything, who created God?" which religion responds with, "That is a question that only God can answer."

In science, Who, or what created the "ingredients" (for lack of a better word) needed for the big bang? They were not just here! How did it get here? There is not an answer, nor a way to find the answer. No one to ask when you die, because science has no religion, nor can you attempt to communicate with the dead to find out, because that would be a form of religion. So any man with common sense, would not play against the odds, it's stupid.

And with all of that in mind why don't you denounce religion some more, by giving me all your money, for the simple reason of it having "In God We Trust" printed on it.
Anyone who claims you can't know - hasn't tried hard enough... and while you can't always claim that the guy who claims to know actually knows what he claims to know - you can always guarantee that the guy who claims you can't know certainly doesn't know... ya know?

Your babbling about me pretty much being a lunatic for believing in what I believe in is nothing but nonsense. Are you on drugs? Haha, You're right... I have laughed off virtually all other religions. But no one's laughing at Jesus. Even after more than 2,000 years the word of our Lord and Savior still rings true in the hearts of millions upon millions of men, women and children all over the earth!

... and if I met someone who claimed to know nothing and someone who claimed to know everything - you better bet I'm talking to the guy who knows everything. After all, you already know the other guy has nothing to talk about! Right?

So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.

I'm offering knowledge and salvation and you just keep babbling on about how people can't know anything - and how I'm an attention whore because I decided to make another thread about religion... that's ridiculous. You should listen to what I'm saying. I'm trying to help you. You sound lost and confused and obviously the drugs can't be helping. Do you have a Bible? If you don't you can PM me your address and I will send you one free of charge.

On a serious note, I am not seeking attention, truth, acceptance, or whatever you think I am by making this thread. I have been on IA longer than you have. In my online career I've made tons of religious threads. I love 'em, they keep me from killing baby dogs and burning rats alive. You're not posting up anything that makes me shake in my boots.

You're not educated in this topic - that's obvious. I mean, you actually think religion is just like car insurance. Hahaha, and you think I'm some weirdo because of the way I think. That I do this for attention. Wow...

I'd rather have a mind opened to other possibilities than be clouded by Jesus and drugs.

[Maniacc]

The OP is educated enough to argue with, but you statement is too easy to shut down.
You're not that bad either... haha, I'm actually enjoying myself.

But work owns me. I'll be back tomorrow.

[BIG WORM]

Your babbling about me pretty much being a lunatic for believing in what I believe in is nothing but nonsense. Are you on drugs?

No, Simply stating that you believing in nothing is nonsense.


I'm offering knowledge and salvation and you just keep babbling on about how people can't know anything -

You're offering what? Wow, you should start your own church, write your own Bible, you could be the next Joseph Smith...


You're not posting up anything that makes me shake in my boots.

Don't care to. I'm just simply evening things out by toning down your atheist image on IA.



You're not educated in this topic - that's obvious. I mean, you actually think religion is just like car insurance.

Sometimes you have to break things down for the average IA'er holding a green card...As far as educated, try me.



I'd rather have a mind opened to other possibilities than be clouded by Jesus and drugs.

Why's it got to be Jesus, why not Mohamed??

But you do make some sense.
I'm obviously a decedent of Father Abraham,
and you obviously the decedent of some hairy baboon with a red ass in middle Africa...

[Maniacc]

No, Simply stating that you believing in nothing is nonsense.

Which is why you're pretty much losing this argument - because you think I'm atheists.



You're offering what? Wow, you should start your own church, write your own Bible, you could be the next Joseph Smith...

Yea, I should write my own bible, huh? It would be called; How to completely own a religious nut-case.

Just like in our current bible I'd have people talk about stories that are in our bible and have other dudes' come up with a witty remark to totally make the nutcase feel like a total buffoon.

Lemme give you a taste:

Nutcase - So have you heard? About Adam and Eve? Our origin and how everything started?
Witty dude - Dude, If I told you that I just finished having a conversation with a snake... would you believe me?

If I were to come up to you with that remark would you believe me? You would probably think that I'm either high on acid or that I'm just a delusional retard. Hahaha, you see BIG WORM, I can pretty much disprove a lot of things from the bible and turn it around to look like something completely retarded!

So you know I should write a book. I'm sure it'd be a hit in the atheist/agnostic community.



Don't care to. I'm just simply evening things out by toning down your atheist image on IA.


Just to clear the air for the rest of this post, I neither believe nor don't believe in God (he cannot be disproven but also cannot be proven). I'm not that ignorant lol.

Here is something I ask myself all the time... If there really was a God, what would it take to convince myself he existed? If God took some special interest in me and really wanted to show me he existed?

Obviously if he took the form of a man with 8 arms and rolled up to my front door on a magic carpet, I would be convinced. But I'm thinking along the lines if he was to do it more subtle... along the lines of we're just a bunch of fish in an aquarium and he owns the aquarium... (perhaps my understanding of what other people believe is a little off) but you get the point.

For my own case, I'm really not sure what it would take outside of dying and experiencing an afterlife. What would it take you? Oh I know, some preacher telling you to believe in a god or else you're going to hell.

Or hey, maybe you've experienced some form of 'miracle' and now you're some hardcore believer. When, in reality it was most likely just a coincidence. But religious people don't see it as a daily coincidence... they see it as a miracle LOL.



Sometimes you have to break things down for the average IA'er holding a green card...As far as educated, try me.

Okay, explain a few things to me.
If there was an omnipotent God, I don't think he'd need a fancy method to make an atheist believe. Poof, you believe. So why is it that only people who've been through some hard times seem to get hooked on religion?

Hah, I don't need you to answer that - simple answer is... they're seeking for motivation to keep them from drugs, house problems, ect. They need guidance and when they find it they hold on to it and see it as truth.

Si or no?!

In all seriousness - God would simply appear on TV as a talking cat if he was for real. He would jump on the news desk of CNN and tell the news anchor man to fuck off and then proceed to read the news in a posh Oxbridge accent.

The news cast would end with a bit of a discussion with the rest of the news crew about what shit he was going to sort out now that he had appeared at long last... then he would lick his small furry balls and ask for a bit of fish.

Maybe he would be a bit more polite and save licking his balls for later, and instead he would just eject 5,000 loaves of bread and a further 5,000 fish from his ass. If he was questioned for acting a bit odd, he would just say he could do no wrong because he was god and he was purrrrrfect.



Why's it got to be Jesus, why not Mohamed??

But you do make some sense.
I'm obviously a decedent of Father Abraham,
and you obviously the decedent of some hairy baboon with a red ass in middle Africa...

Jesus, Mohamed, Santa, whoever.

Heh, look. I'm agnostic. Atheists like to give agnostics a hard time about sitting on the fence all the time. However, most people in this world will continue to believe in some sort of Aristotelian 'unmoved mover' and for lack of anything better, call it God, and will therefore never feel comfortable being categorized as "atheists."

I guess I would consider myself an atheist in many senses of the word, but I continue to be agnostic about some ineffable deistic source of all that exists or perhaps some sort of pantheism in which the whole universe is deified. I cannot put those ideas on the same level as unicorns or pink fairies because they are of a completely different nature. Unicorns are just "things", while the other lends answers to deep existential questions. However, I have thus far rejected any definable notion of a revealed theistic God, and especially a personal one.

I gotta hand it to you man, your powers of deduction are astonishing. Why don't you put that into good use and rake my leafs or something?

ETA: Haha, sit down and give your mind a rest before you decide to click on the 'quote' icon and start dissecting my posts' you should first maybe take your head out of your ass, because I think it's been awhile since your brain has gotten any oxygen.

[Thighs]

as far as im concerned, both of you are retarded. im sorry to say to both of you, that there is NO WAY of proving either case to ANYBODY. on one hand, we have BIG WORM who is obviously a christian, doesnt seem to know quite as much about it as maniac, but can hold an intelligent argument nonetheless. then tehres maniac, who knows what hes talking about but cant seem to control his bashing to actually form the "intellectual debate" that he claims he wants.

BIG WORM - so basically you think of religion as some form of life insurance that prevents you from a really shitty afterlife, and dont necessarily believe what you claim to. isnt that like having car insurance only because you are required by law, and not necessarily because its a good thing to have? just like everyone else, you arent 100% sure that its real. there is no factual evidence that eve talked to a snake, that god created all of this in 7 days, etc, but you recognize that there IS real factual evidence favoring science, right?

maniac - for the most part i agree with your opinions, but not the way you go about forcing other people to believe the same thing as you. its no different than the preacher guy at that one sonic meet who was screaming bible verses at the top of his lungs, trying to force his religion down everyone elses throats.

[Maniacc]

as far as im concerned, both of you are retarded. im sorry to say to both of you, that there is NO WAY of proving either case to ANYBODY. on one hand, we have BIG WORM who is obviously a christian, doesnt seem to know quite as much about it as maniac, but can hold an intelligent argument nonetheless. then tehres maniac, who knows what hes talking about but cant seem to control his bashing to actually form the "intellectual debate" that he claims he wants.

maniac - for the most part i agree with your opinions, but not the way you go about forcing other people to believe the same thing as you. its no different than the preacher guy at that one sonic meet who was screaming bible verses at the top of his lungs, trying to force his religion down everyone elses throats.
Bashing? Me? Haha, I can't help but to throw out some smartass comments in every post I make. :D

I'm not trying to disprove Gods' existence nor am I trying to convert someone into thinking the way I do. I'm just trying to see who here is capable of keeping up with me.

[trundog]

there are so many questions out there..........that we just dont know and can never understand. we have been asking "WHAT" is that and "WHAT" are we for hundreds of years... we don't know... and these guys didn't know either.


http://i43.tinypic.com/14v8sw.jpg

[C-loS109]

You should read more, enroll in school or something..you have it all wrong.

The OP is educated enough to argue with, but you statement is too easy to shut down.

how so, well do me a favor and explaing all the things i mentioned in my post. do it. "shoot down" my statement.

[qwick]

http://www.watch-movies.net/movies/religulous/

[Maniacc]

The thing with other people that also think like me is... that I can also dis 'em with religious scripture and other religious retorts just to prove that they're a bunch of idiots.

If people are out to bash on religion they need to at least be a little educated on the subject and not just throw out retarded ass comments in hopes of making other people "think" they're intelligent.

[qwick]

Mankind as a whole fears death, and religion presents a way of negating death. According to the bible if you follow the 10 commandments your final reward is eternal life in heaven free of suffering and pain, the alternative to not following the commandment is still eternal life only this time you are doomed to suffer.



So in other words,



If your good and follow the “rules” you will live happily ever after, break the “rules” and you shall be severely punished.



It all seems to be a way of controlling people. :2cents:

[99hatch]

Mankind as a whole fears death, and religion presents a way of negating death. According to the bible if you follow the 10 commandments your final reward is eternal life in heaven free of suffering and pain, the alternative to not following the commandment is still eternal life only this time you are doomed to suffer.



So in other words,



If your good and follow the “rules” you will live happily ever after, break the “rules” and you shall be severely punished.



It all seems to be a way of controlling people. :2cents:

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.

[Maniacc]

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure that they want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Seems to make sense to me. A hell of a lot more sense than the 10 commandments.
Except for the bit about magic, of which I have no opinion.

If you didn't know these are the 11 Satanic commandments. Also, I don't think 'destroy him' necessarily means 'rip his fucking heart out of his chest if he doesn't stop asking you for some change' but more of a 'I'll fucking punch you in your face if you continue to bother me.'

So before you go and attack that part - don't, I've already cleared it out for you.

But when it comes down to it Good and Evil are both man made institutions. There cannot be one without the other, but in actuality - neither exist independently. I'm neither a Satanist nor a religious nutcase. But I do enjoy reading parts of both. Building my knowledge on them helps me out understanding them to a point where I'll have enough data to be able to argue 'em in a discussion if I need to.

If you must know, I have broken all twenty-one commandments.

I am The Mecha-Super Evil.

Also, does anyone else find it ironic that the "Satanists" - who are self proclaimed anarchistic hedonists require even more laws telling them what to do than the Christians?

The Maniac's Two Commandments.
I. Fuck all commandments
II. Fuck you

[trundog]

but maniac don't you have to have the satanist's card! its like $25 and you become a REAL satanist.

(i wish this was a joke)

[Maniacc]

but maniac don't you have to have the satanist's card! its like $25 and you become a REAL satanist.

(i wish this was a joke)
I don't buy the cards. I print 'em, bitch.

And also If a Satanist tried to sell me a membership card I would fucking mug him.

Without mercy.

While laughing.

:devil:

[trundog]

how evil of you............
he'd probably cast a magic missile on you though :lmfao: :lmfao:

[stillaneon]

Okay, who here is a member of a religious institution? Who believes in the Judaic-Christian-Muslim model of God, or a higher being who has a direct personal relationship with humans? Answer me these questions;

Do you believe in the periodic table of elements?
Do you believe in Evolution?
Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory?
Do you believe in the Universe?

If you've answered no to any of the questions above with any sort of decisiveness than I don't believe you're worthwhile.

If you've answered yes to the questions than think about this:

You believe this God created us through a series of highly elaborate near impossibly random series of events?

He created a fabric of space-time on which a singular element managed to concentrate enough to create a massive explosion and from this developed a hundred other elements and the interaction between those elements formed millions of galaxies which each contained thousands of solar systems which contained millions of suns each with several planets rotating around it's gravitational pull and on one of these miniscule planets there was an ideal amount of water and oxygen to sustain life.

And on this miniscule planet some bacteria formed and that bacteria adapted to it's environment and manifested into various forms, one of which had an ancestral link to human beings then through tens of thousands of years of evolution it transformed into the modern human being.

This god that created that highly elaborate complex series of events which incidentally produced some life on a tiny little planet in a tiny little solar system in one of billions of galaxies... This god cares about us? He created us in his image?

Does that not seem a little far-fetched to you? How can you honestly say you believe in the idea of a personal god who's managed to transcend conventional physics to create an ethereal alternate universe for us to exist in and say you also believe in or understand fundamental scientific concepts? They both logically contradict.

Alex, I will play Devil's advocate here.

I am an Atheist. But I would never try to push my beliefs on anyone. And I expect the same respect.

But:

Yes, I believe in the periodic table, evolution, Big Bang and the Universe.


Big bang says nothing about the universe being in one element. In fact some theorist suggest that it could have been the size of an egg or even bigger.

It's not all farfetched to think that it could have happened. Technically, a black hole's gravity is strong enough to condense major amounts of mass into the size of a needle head; so what's to say that all that mass wasn't finally released somewhere.


Like I previously stated, I don't believe in God but for arguments sake let's say I do. You ask,"You believe this God created us through a series of highly elaborate near impossibly random series of events?"

What's so elaborate? God created the world in the order it would have had to be created scientifically. Light, atmosphere, land, water and flying animals, and then mammals. And while it says 6 days, how long was a day for someone who wasn't on the earth and dealt with revolution? There were people who lived for 900 years but the standard calendar wasn't invented then.


Evolution is pretty much standard. Maybe not the way that you are referring to it but everything evolves.

Evolution is a fancy name for adaptation. Fish in caves evolved to not being born with eyes, because they had no need for them. Virus' become immune to vaccines every year, and even humans adapt to their surroundings.

To say that you contradict yourself for being a Christian and believing in evolution is not correct.


You say on one of the planets had enough oxygen and water to sustain life. How do you know it was just one? It's been proven that the was water on mars, and that at one time, Mars may have been able to sustain life. But like you said, millions of planets out there. Are you really naive enough to think that only on planet can sustain life? And we only classify life by what lives here. But there may be another life form that does not need what we need to survive.


Back to evolution. You are asking a Christian, who, for the most part do not take part in Dawin's theories of evolution, to argue that a micro-organism started it all. Most Christians practice creationism, which states that god made man from the ground. So, there isn't really a way to argue that point as a christian.


And after all the circles in your post, can you honestly say that you don't believe in a higher power? That question is just as elborate and thought out as yours. The question is, WHY WOULDN'T A GREATER POWER KNOW ENOUGH TO COVER ALL THE BASES IF HE WAS GOING TO MAKE AN INTRACATE UNIVERSE? You post for the entertainment of "putting Christians' in their place" but you haven't really asked anything that would prove Christianity wrong.

Yes, it is feasible that if there is a higher power, he could do this. And yes, if he wanted to choose this planet out of the millions/trillions of other planets, that is his prerogative. And furthermore, who are you to question the decisions of something so almighty that is can be everywhere and no where at the same time?

No matter how farfetched it sounds to you or I, there are people who believe it whole heartedly.

Unfortunately, I envy them. I wish I could be so brainless to believe something that there is no proof besides for a book written by men, and translated by even more men over the course of thousands of years. I wish I could find the pure and blind faith to never ask for proof and ask questions. But I don't. But these questions should do nothing but make any knowledged person laugh.

[stillaneon]

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.

And this is true for the most part.

But the problem most people have with this is, If I am Muslim, but I live a wholesome life, why will I be condemned to Hell? What merciful God would send anyone who lived a wholesome life without major sin to hell because of one technicality

[qwick]

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.

The 10 commandments are:

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think



3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.



4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.



Ok so God says its ok be lazy don’t do anything……I bet he voted for Obama.



5) Honor thy Father and Mother.



Have you met my parents…..ok then.



6) Thou shalt not murder.



I haven’t yet but I thought about it and according to the Bible a sin in the mind is as bad as a sin in the flesh.



7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6.



8) Thou shalt not steal.



I took a piece of gum from my brother when I was 7, and im not sorry for doing it.



9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.



Ok so don’t lie…..who here has ever lied? Who taught you how to lie?



10) Thou shalt not covet.



So basically your not suppose to want anything……that sucks.

[qwick]

If you follow all 10 of these "rules" like a good little Christian then all I have to do is say "God says" and you will do it.

Give me 40% of your money.......also known as offering



Go kill "this" group of people.......crusade/Holy War

(Even though your NOT suppose to kill anyone)



Ok now let do a little experiment. Lets say we could go back in time to before you "knew" who God was. This time around instead of going to church ever Sunday to learn about God you go to a farm and learn about "Jack and the bean stalk" Instead of telling me "Yes there is a God" would you be saying "Yes there is a guy named Jack with a magic bean stalk, and at the top of the magic bean stalk is a giant".



LOL of course you wouldn’t because that’s just ridiculous. Magic bean stalks, some guy aka “giant” that lives in the sky we cant see, that’s crazy talk.









Lets say I kill some one, and when asked why did I do that I say “A voice told me to” ….I’m crazy right? Now lets say I send an entire army to kill everyone in a small town and when asked why I did that I say “God himself told me to”…….that’s ok, there is nothing wrong with a voice telling me to go and kill some one as long as that voices name is God.

[stillaneon]

The 10 commandments are:

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think



3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.



4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.



Ok so God says its ok be lazy don’t do anything……I bet he voted for Obama.



5) Honor thy Father and Mother.



Have you met my parents…..ok then.



6) Thou shalt not murder.



I haven’t yet but I thought about it and according to the Bible a sin in the mind is as bad as a sin in the flesh.



7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6.



8) Thou shalt not steal.



I took a piece of gum from my brother when I was 7, and im not sorry for doing it.



9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.



Ok so don’t lie…..who here has ever lied? Who taught you how to lie?



10) Thou shalt not covet.



So basically your not suppose to want anything……that sucks.


HAHA

Lets do this together:



1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



Wouldn't you be if he could smite the earth with a blink of an eye?




2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think


He doesn't want to share. And if you think that's childish, the next time a girl cheats on you, let it slide. because it's petty to be the only one.




3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.


You have got to be joking. Going to hell, for saying God Damn it.




4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.



Ok so God says its ok be lazy don’t do anything……I bet he voted for Obama.


God says nothing about being lazy. In fact, he says work and then rest on the 7th day in rememberance of him also resting. He is telling you that you can take a break every once in a while...




5) Honor thy Father and Mother.



Have you met my parents…..ok then.


Does it matter what kind of parents they were? A Christian would say, "yes he has met your parents." You should still honor them and love them as your parents even if you can't respect hem as people.




6) Thou shalt not murder.



I haven’t yet but I thought about it and according to the Bible a sin in the mind is as bad as a sin in the flesh.


You thinking about murder is called wooden swearing. It's having impure thoughts or showing discontent. Like wanting to kill someone in traffic or slamming the phone when you are frustrated. Not exactly a sin, but it does lead to worse things. Kind of like anger leading to the dark side...




7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6.


You continuously seem to think that just because you do something, it is justified as ok to do. It's not. Adultery is no where near as bad in society as it used to be, but it is still against the rules. Now, very few people follow this, but you are still breaking the rule if you have sex. And the sin of the mind is more coveting. You want something that isn't yours. But lust isn't neccesarily a sin. Everyone does it.




8) Thou shalt not steal.



I took a piece of gum from my brother when I was 7, and im not sorry for doing it.


A piece of gum, come on, you have stolen worse. A piece of gum is petty. Again though, this goes back to your idea that says because it's ok to you, means it's ok.




9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.



Ok so don’t lie…..who here has ever lied? Who taught you how to lie?


Actually Christians' believe that humans had the ability to lie. but it wasn;t until satan convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit did she know how to utilize the ability.




10) Thou shalt not covet.



So basically your not suppose to want anything……that sucks.

He's not saying you can't want. Do not wish ill will on someone because of their assetts.


I couldn't stop laughing because you thought this was a good way to come back against the 10 commandments.

Just because your moral code is weak and flawed does not mean that everyone else can break the rules.

[stillaneon]

If you follow all 10 of these "rules" like a good little Christian then all I have to do is say "God says" and you will do it.

Give me 40% of your money.......also known as offering



Go kill "this" group of people.......crusade/Holy War

(Even though your NOT suppose to kill anyone)



Ok now let do a little experiment. Lets say we could go back in time to before you "knew" who God was. This time around instead of going to church ever Sunday to learn about God you go to a farm and learn about "Jack and the bean stalk" Instead of telling me "Yes there is a God" would you be saying "Yes there is a guy named Jack with a magic bean stalk, and at the top of the magic bean stalk is a giant".



LOL of course you wouldn’t because that’s just ridiculous. Magic bean stalks, some guy aka “giant” that lives in the sky we cant see, that’s crazy talk.









Lets say I kill some one, and when asked why did I do that I say “A voice told me to” ….I’m crazy right? Now lets say I send an entire army to kill everyone in a small town and when asked why I did that I say “God himself told me to”…….that’s ok, there is nothing wrong with a voice telling me to go and kill some one as long as that voices name is God.




You need to stop talking.

Everytime you post you sound more rediculous.

Tithing is something you do to the church. to pay bills, because even though its a non profit, water and electricity still get used. Tehy also use that money to help the community, feed the homeless and keep the building and property up.

You cannot give moeny to God. What does he need is for? He lives where the streets are paved with one of our most precious metals. You tithe because you are giving back to him by sacraficing something that is important to you to show faith.


There is a difference between murder and killing. Death is part of life and there have been numerous times that God himself has demanded his people kill. The Crusades though, were none of this. These were Christian men who decided to take back the Holy Land, oh, and rescue their King. Even though they proclaimed it was for God, there is nothing (accepted as God's word) that states he asked for the war.


People know what they are taught. and even the bible says, you will not be punished for what you don't know. If you were never introduced to him, then you can't be punished for making the wrong choice.

Jack and the Beanstalk? seriously:lmfao:


Let's say you do kill someone. And you tell them that a voice made you do it. You will be put away. God very seldomly came down and said, "Kill this one person." Usually it was to a leader about a tribe of people. To a leader... If a group of people killed another group because the had faith that God told you so, then (not only would they be stupid for listening to someone as uneducated as you are) but you would be the leader, and you would end up taking the responsibilty if God never charged you with that task.

[qwick]

HAHA

Lets do this together:



Wouldn't you be if he could smite the earth with a blink of an eye?

True but then again i am ony a petty human, why would God need to boast



He doesn't want to share. And if you think that's childish, the next time a girl cheats on you, let it slide. because it's petty to be the only one.

Once again I am human, why would a god need to be jealous


You have got to be joking. Going to hell, for saying God Damn it.

Hey big man up stairs says it bad so who amI to disagree.


God says nothing about being lazy. In fact, he says work and then rest on the 7th day in rememberance of him also resting. He is telling you that you can take a break every once in a while...

+ points for you


Does it matter what kind of parents they were? A Christian would say, "yes he has met your parents." You should still honor them and love them as your parents even if you can't respect hem as people.

Go to DEFACS and tell that t e little 13 year old girl whos dad rapped and beat her she has to "honor" him.


You thinking about murder is called wooden swearing. It's having impure thoughts or showing discontent. Like wanting to kill someone in traffic or slamming the phone when you are frustrated. Not exactly a sin, but it does lead to worse things. Kind of like anger leading to the dark side...

the bible says no one sin is greater than the other and the mear though of a sin is equal to the action of carrin out that sin


You continuously seem to think that just because you do something, it is justified as ok to do. It's not. Adultery is no where near as bad in society as it used to be, but it is still against the rules. Now, very few people follow this, but you are still breaking the rule if you have sex. And the sin of the mind is more coveting. You want something that isn't yours. But lust isn't neccesarily a sin. Everyone does it.

1. the 10 commandments dont say anthig about what "society" thinks about sin, it says do any of tese things and your a bad person.

2.Like above the bible says thinking of a sin or in a sinfull manner is equal to auctualy carring out the sin.



A piece of gum, come on, you have stolen worse. A piece of gum is petty. Again though, this goes back to your idea that says because it's ok to you, means it's ok.

Yes stealing gum is very petty and I have stole worse ,the point I was making is that stealing gum is equal to stealing a car in gods eyes, as I have stated befor no one sin geater than the other.


Actually Christians' believe that humans had the ability to lie. but it wasn;t until satan convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit did she know how to utilize the ability.

Having the ability to do something and knowing how to utilize that ability are to very different things.




He's not saying you can't want. Do not wish ill will on someone because of their assetts.

Every one wants something you dont have even if you dont wish ill will on some one else for what they have the simple fact that you want what they have is covetting.

I couldn't stop laughing because you thought this was a good way to come back against the 10 commandments.

It was more of way to show simple human nature that everyone does on a daily basis has to be suppresed accordig to the bible.

Just because your moral code is weak and flawed does not mean that everyone else can break the rules.

My moral code is just fine as it is, It mght not be as well structured as other but then again your only judging me off of post so you wouldnt realy have clue.

[qwick]

Tithing is something you do to the church. to pay bills, because even though its a non profit, water and electricity still get used. Tehy also use that money to help the community, feed the homeless and keep the building and property up.

You cannot give moeny to God. What does he need is for? He lives where the streets are paved with one of our most precious metals. You tithe because you are giving back to him by sacraficing something that is important to you to show faith.
Right all the money given to some guy on the TV go to what you listed above? come on man realy you think that? Search yahoo for the homes of some of the televangelist, there freaking huge and extravagnt, If they were so worried about being close to god the moey they spent on their home woud have been sent back in to the communitys. Now yes some churches do give back to communitys and yes i know they have bills to pay but think about this, lets say we go to this church that has 15 (average american) members. How much money a week are you bringing in if every one tiths 40% or even only 20%?

There is a difference between murder and killing. Death is part of life and there have been numerous times that God himself has demanded his people kill. The Crusades though, were none of this. These were Christian men who decided to take back the Holy Land, oh, and rescue their King. Even though they proclaimed it was for God, there is nothing (accepted as God's word) that states he asked for the war.

I never said God had to say go kill, I just ment that if "King whatever" says kill a person or group of people and some one ask why it is accepted and more palatable if his respons is "god said so"

People know what they are taught. and even the bible says, you will not be punished for what you don't know. If you were never introduced to him, then you can't be punished for making the wrong choice.

The point here is that chistians belive in a very far fetched story, replace this story with another one or a fairy tale and all of a sudden its laughble, or even more so.

Jack and the Beanstalk? seriously:lmfao:

Ok the old testement in a nut shell: God say to Joseph "im gonna knock up you wife, dont worry tho she will still be a virgin. She will give birth to a baby boy named Jesus that is realy me."

*Skip ahead a little*

Jesus who is also god goes around and does "magic" and "heals" people and also teaches that his "father" (who by the way didnt have sex with his mom and is also him)sent him here to teach ever one about God(his self).

*skip ahead some more*

Some guy gets mad at Jesus(God) and decides to kill him. And in stead of saving him self with his "magic" he lets it happen to frogive the sins of every one past, present and future. Now Jeasus and God who are the one and the same but NOT are chillen in this very exclusive club called Heaven, and the only way in is to follow there rules here on earth. Its sounds like a made up story.

[ghostrida3]

no, the point is you cant follow the rules. all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The ten commandents as paul stated are a "school teacher" a measuring stick to show us Gods standards and we dont measure up. the Key is forgiveness through belief in Christ. and yeah God is jealous. he has done so much for us including dying. he compares us to his wife in the bible. your wife cheating on you( seaking other things for happiness instead of him) is horrible. Jesus is not a fairy tale. you are smoking if you think he never existed. its supported by so many documents of the day. so are his "magical" acts. You can beleive what ever you want about God but it doesnt matter. You can beleive you have the gift of flight but jump off a building and you will find out shortly on how much your or my ipinion means in the big scheme of things. also sure there are wicked immoral pastors and their are good ones as well does that make the bible or God anyless true? od some research and you will be amazed at how much of the bible is not "make beleive"

[99hatch]

Originally Posted by stillaneon

Tithing is something you do to the church. to pay bills, because even though its a non profit, water and electricity still get used. Tehy also use that money to help the community, feed the homeless and keep the building and property up.

You cannot give moeny to God. What does he need is for? He lives where the streets are paved with one of our most precious metals. You tithe because you are giving back to him by sacraficing something that is important to you to show faith.
Right all the money given to some guy on the TV go to what you listed above? come on man realy you think that? Search yahoo for the homes of some of the televangelist, there freaking huge and extravagnt, If they were so worried about being close to god the moey they spent on their home woud have been sent back in to the communitys. Now yes some churches do give back to communitys and yes i know they have bills to pay but think about this, lets say we go to this church that has 15 (average american) members. How much money a week are you bringing in if every one tiths 40% or even only 20%?

There is a difference between murder and killing. Death is part of life and there have been numerous times that God himself has demanded his people kill. The Crusades though, were none of this. These were Christian men who decided to take back the Holy Land, oh, and rescue their King. Even though they proclaimed it was for God, there is nothing (accepted as God's word) that states he asked for the war.

I never said God had to say go kill, I just ment that if "King whatever" says kill a person or group of people and some one ask why it is accepted and more palatable if his respons is "god said so"

People know what they are taught. and even the bible says, you will not be punished for what you don't know. If you were never introduced to him, then you can't be punished for making the wrong choice.

The point here is that chistians belive in a very far fetched story, replace this story with another one or a fairy tale and all of a sudden its laughble, or even more so.

Jack and the Beanstalk? seriously:lmfao:

Ok the old testement in a nut shell: God say to Joseph "im gonna knock up you wife, dont worry tho she will still be a virgin. She will give birth to a baby boy named Jesus that is realy me."

*Skip ahead a little*

Jesus who is also god goes around and does "magic" and "heals" people and also teaches that his "father" (who by the way didnt have sex with his mom and is also him)sent him here to teach ever one about God(his self).

*skip ahead some more*

Some guy gets mad at Jesus(God) and decides to kill him. And in stead of saving him self with his "magic" he lets it happen to frogive the sins of every one past, present and future. Now Jeasus and God who are the one and the same but NOT are chillen in this very exclusive club called Heaven, and the only way in is to follow there rules here on earth.


This is so ridiculously off base its not even funny. If you dont want to believe in God thats cool man. Everyone has to a choice to make their own decisions. But if your going to try to make an intelligent argument against Christianity you need to do a little research on the subject. When you say, this sounds like a made up story, its because it is. You just made it up.

To start Tything is 10% of your income not 40. Uncle Sam takes about 28% and up of your income. Maybe you should see what he is doing with all the money. Like stillaneon said, Tything is something you do to 1. help the church with bills and helping the community. 2. to show a leap of faith by God. It also states that those who give to God will be rewarded heavily. Its a leap of faith. Lets say you give up 100 bucks a month. You love your money and dont want to give it up.....Believe me, God makes it up to you. Plus it helps countless people.

Yes there are TV evangelists out there that are doing nothing more than ripping people off. There are also ones who are truely trying to help people. You cannot blame God for those idiots that take advantage of the "God" name just to rip you off. That is there choice, and those who are real Chirstians can tell the difference based on what they preach, and if God is truely speaking through them.

You say Christianty is a far fetched story. Look at the Big Bang Theory. So you mean to tell me, out of no where there was this very small mass created. Then this mass that popped up out of nowhere exploded. The just by chance these single cell organizims were created from dust, then turned into thousands of species of Animals and plant life. Then some turned into monkeys that eventually got smart and became human. Let me ask you, why didnt lions evolve into something smarter and able to build things? Why just monkeys? Also pretty interesting that everything on this earth lives off Water and that happens to be the most abbudent source on the planet. Plus every organizm lives off other ones by chance. Its pure coincidence that people breath oxogen and exhale carbon dioxide but plants are the exact opposite so that our earth always has both. So Plants and people could coexist. All this just by chance. So what kind of far fetched story do you believe in?

[stillaneon]

True but then again i am ony a petty human, why would God need to boast
Why question it? He can do what he wants. The bible says god is boastful. If he wasn't talking the talk and walking the walk, then no one would know about him and hence no one would believe or be saved.




Once again I am human, why would a god need to be jealous

Remember, he is looking out for you. He doesn't want you to believe in something "false" because he wants you to be saved



Hey big man up stairs says it bad so who amI to disagree.
That's all you have been doing is coming up with bullshit reasons why you shouldn't believe.




+ points for you

Thanks




Go to DEFACS and tell that t e little 13 year old girl whos dad rapped and beat her she has to "honor" him.

Anyone who is physically abusive isn't a real parent. Just because your biological, doesn't make you a parent




the bible says no one sin is greater than the other and the mear though of a sin is equal to the action of carrin out that sin

Wrong. The bible has deadly sins as well as breaking the 10 commandments
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride.

But the biggest Sin is to denounce the existance of the Holy spirit. That is the only unforgiveable sin




1. the 10 commandments dont say anthig about what "society" thinks about sin, it says do any of tese things and your a bad person.

2.Like above the bible says thinking of a sin or in a sinfull manner is equal to auctualy carring out the sin.

You are correct, the 10 commandements don't but your previous statement was, "Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6."
This to me sounds like you are saying its ok because society doesn't look down upon it as much.



Every one wants something you dont have even if you dont wish ill will on some one else for what they have the simple fact that you want what they have is covetting.
Covet - to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably

The keys words are bolded. You can want something. That's why they make more than one. It is wanting something exceedingly or overzealously or your intentions that make it covetting instead of aspirations




It was more of way to show simple human nature that everyone does on a daily basis has to be suppresed accordig to the bible.
Even god knows this.
Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"
He is all knowing. He realizes you will make mistakes. The rules are there to guide you on a path, not to punish you....

[stillaneon]

Right all the money given to some guy on the TV go to what you listed above? come on man realy you think that? Search yahoo for the homes of some of the televangelist, there freaking huge and extravagnt, If they were so worried about being close to god the moey they spent on their home woud have been sent back in to the communitys. Now yes some churches do give back to communitys and yes i know they have bills to pay but think about this, lets say we go to this church that has 15 (average american) members. How much money a week are you bringing in if every one tiths 40% or even only 20%?



If you honestly believe that all tithing goes to TV evangalists, you are sadly mistaken. I'm not a Christina, but I still tithe to my father's church because I know that the money will be used to help out others. Tithing is 10% not 40%.

And if you want to see where the TV evangalists are wrong, read Genesis 28:

Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s house, then the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth” (Genesis 28:20-22).
You do not owe religious leaders a thing. You tithe to help, not to pay off God



I never said God had to say go kill, I just ment that if "King whatever" says kill a person or group of people and some one ask why it is accepted and more palatable if his respons is "god said so"
No it's not. There is a seperation of church and state in most countries. Unless you are a barbarian (which had pagan gods btw) usually you don't just attack another country unless you have some cause. Again, who would question a King anyway? Marshall law would dictate you dying if you questioned a kings authority. I would have understood if you said president, but then again, that's what the check and balance system is for.



The point here is that chistians belive in a very far fetched story, replace this story with another one or a fairy tale and all of a sudden its laughble, or even more so.
It's called faith. And I won't dog it. If people believe it and it fills the void in their life, then neither should you. Unless you have proof it's farfetched, then keep your opinions to yourself. Remember, God Transcends our understandings.




Ok the old testement in a nut shell: God say to Joseph "im gonna knock up you wife, dont worry tho she will still be a virgin. She will give birth to a baby boy named Jesus that is realy me."

*Skip ahead a little*

Jesus who is also god goes around and does "magic" and "heals" people and also teaches that his "father" (who by the way didnt have sex with his mom and is also him)sent him here to teach ever one about God(his self).

*skip ahead some more*

Some guy gets mad at Jesus(God) and decides to kill him. And in stead of saving him self with his "magic" he lets it happen to frogive the sins of every one past, present and future. Now Jeasus and God who are the one and the same but NOT are chillen in this very exclusive club called Heaven, and the only way in is to follow there rules here on earth.

Umm I hate to point this out but this would be the New Testament, and it would only be the gospels.

God never talked to Joseph or Mary, Gabriel did.

He was conceived immaculately, and did walk the earth performing miracles. He prophesized and taught how to be a decent person (what's wrong with that)

It was more than one guy, the Pharisees, saw their world crumbling. They were rich off of misleading the people and they had power, and then one man (the son of a carpenter) was destroying it so they had him killed on insane charges. And it is well known that the bible explains, He could have saved himself, but he died and suffered so that you wouldn't have to kill a lamb once a year at passover. He bridged the gap between God and people by showing that God was also a man. Now we talk to him through prayer (unless you are catholic).

But I see what you are saying:
http://ronsworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/christianity-thumb.jpg

[bookthief]

There is no such thing as religion, only faith.

[frankXVX]

to me todays religion is all about money/power i hate the rev,priest what ever who lives in a manssion and shows off his huge church on tv with all his gold on his body,ppl suffer and then he gos on a preaches his bullshit.
and then you have the ones who actually do it with out caring how big their church is,i have respect for them but as for me im not into the whole church thing and ill be agnostic untill i die and dont push your religion on me because i could really careless(im talking to the ppl who knock on my door on the weekends)
aliens exist:D :taun:

[qwick]

Why question it? He can do what he wants. The bible says god is boastful. If he wasn't talking the talk and walking the walk, then no one would know about him and hence no one would believe or be saved.



Remember, he is looking out for you. He doesn't want you to believe in something "false" because he wants you to be saved



That's all you have been doing is coming up with bullshit reasons why you shouldn't believe.

Your argumnts above works on the principle that I do "belive" in him. My thing is why does something so"great" so "devine" and "holy" , act like a young child? Also the whole point of these commandments is to teach you to be a better person and thus be more like God, yet he says dont be boastful or jealous even tho he him self is.


Thanks



Anyone who is physically abusive isn't a real parent. Just because your biological, doesn't make you a parent

The 10 comandments did not have any loop holes or bi-laws built in, God word is finaly. "Honor thy father and mother" thats it, it doesnt say off to the side "unless they do something bad to you"



Wrong. The bible has deadly sins as well as breaking the 10 commandments
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride.

Wrong the seven deadly sins were never auctualy part of the Bible. They were written many years after by a monk as a list of 8 sins and re-writen by a preist even later on as what we know today as the 7 deadly sin.This list of sins was man made and never handed down by God or his angels.

But the biggest Sin is to denounce the existance of the Holy spirit. That is the only unforgiveable sin

If you belive in him.Other wise im just making fun of a fictional character

You are correct, the 10 commandements don't but your previous statement was, "Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6."
This to me sounds like you are saying its ok because society doesn't look down upon it as much.

thank you.

Covet - to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably

The keys words are bolded. You can want something. That's why they make more than one. It is wanting something exceedingly or overzealously or your intentions that make it covetting instead of aspirations

+ points again

Even god knows this.
Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"
He is all knowing. He realizes you will make mistakes. The rules are there to guide you on a path, not to punish you......

[qwick]

If you honestly believe that all tithing goes to TV evangalists, you are sadly mistaken. I'm not a Christina, but I still tithe to my father's church because I know that the money will be used to help out others. Tithing is 10% not 40%.

And if you want to see where the TV evangalists are wrong, read Genesis 28:

You do not owe religious leaders a thing. You tithe to help, not to pay off God

My views of this subject are from a personal experience, being that it is a tender subject I would like to omit any more arguments on this subject.

No it's not. There is a seperation of church and state in most countries. Unless you are a barbarian (which had pagan gods btw) usually you don't just attack another country unless you have some cause. Again, who would question a King anyway? Marshall law would dictate you dying if you questioned a kings authority. I would have understood if you said president, but then again, that's what the check and balance system is for.

For example the crap going on in the Middel East, even tho its mainly the radical Muslims do the bombing and what not they are doing it in there gods name. Also I use the term "king" loose, basicaly meaning anyone in power over a group of people.

Also I know the Keran(sp?) never says for them to do any this, but perverted faith is still faith none the less.

It's called faith. And I won't dog it. If people believe it and it fills the void in their life, then neither should you. Unless you have proof it's farfetched, then keep your opinions to yourself. Remember, God Transcends our understandings.

I think you miss understand me. I wish no ill will on thoes who belive in religion nore do I wish to change there minds of such.I just dont agree with it. I do have friends that are religious, we just avoid this subject.


..

[Maniacc]

I am an Atheist.

I'm only responding to the things that I find interesting...

Because the majority of the stuff you posted I've known since I was in middle school.

I have a hard time with Atheism cause I think we're lacking a really good definition here. If it is simply people who do not believe in God, it needs some explanation. Does that refer to the Judeo-Christian God? Does it refer to all gods, including the Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Norse, or Celtic pantheons? Do your atheistic beliefs include every single possibility of God that has ever been conceived, including Shiva, Vishnu, or the concept of Nirvana?

If it does, then I would like to know how you gleaned that knowledge. This goes out to all the atheists here... I'm serious. How do you know for sure that there is NOTHING out there? Isn't claiming you KNOW that there is a LACK of something to claim that you know EVERYTHING that is?

For example, if I said I had a poster of Megan Fox on my bedroom wall, could you verify that I in fact, do NOT, until you come to my apartment, observe each wall, and realize that not a single square inch of wall contains such a poster? Of course not. So what gives you such a knowledge of the universe to say there is NO god or higer power out there?

I think it's quite a mighty claim to say you know for SURE that something DOES NOT exist, when it has the entire infinite universe in which to reside. Now, I not saying that in some planet out there lives some person who sees what goes on all around him and that he has powers that we just can't comprehend but to say that their is nothing out there and that all of this happened by chance is stupid. Which is why I sometimes rather not even put myself in a catagory.

Here's a question - Do atheists deny the existence of all divine beings, or just the typical ones?
By definition, it would be all. Otherwise, they would be a skeptic. Right?


Let's take the tooth fairy.
Since you haven't seen the tooth fairy, it must not exist, correct? Suppose you lose a tooth, put it under your pillow one night, and wake up the next morning to find a quarter in it's place?

Do you believe:
A. The natural order of the universe is to replace teeth with quarters.
B. Pillows have a magical power to convert teeth to quarters
C. Some external force was messing with you and you want your damn tooth back because a quarter isn't worth anything anymore!

If you cannot detect something physically, does that mean it is not real? What about the concepts of love and hate? What about all concepts? You cannot physcially measure love, does that mean that it does not exist? Especially since "God is love" in the Bible - does that mean that you really don't want to believe in love? Also, what about hate, faith, hope, justice, etc? Do they exist? What makes them real to you?
If you believe in ANY higher power, then BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION, you are not an atheist.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

More or less my point is that unless you claim to know everything, you can't say there's DEFINITELY no god. Now, if you wanna say you don't believe in Christianity, Jesus, and Santa Clause, that's a different story. And we can argue about that all day long, with much better results.

And aside from that, just because you haven't seen, heard, or experienced any physical evidence of a god doesn't mean other people haven't. Consider the tooth fairy, if you want to use that example. We all know that's not true, and yet you have experienced evidence that it is. So why is the reverse not true? It seems like a leap of logic to say that because you haven't seen any evidence of something that in the whole wide universe it doesn't exist.

Again, I'm agnostic but I'm not going to sit here and say that we are it and there is nothing greater than us out there. Because we don't know and it's smarter to keep learning until we find the answers. Keep claiming you're an atheist - just try not to be to caught up so much in your belief that it'll leave you sounding like a dude on crack.



You say on one of the planets had enough oxygen and water to sustain life. How do you know it was just one?

You took my OP and read too deep into it. Perhaps you didn't catch the sarcasm.



And after all the circles in your post, can you honestly say that you don't believe in a higher power? That question is just as elborate and thought out as yours. The question is, WHY WOULDN'T A GREATER POWER KNOW ENOUGH TO COVER ALL THE BASES IF HE WAS GOING TO MAKE AN INTRACATE UNIVERSE? You post for the entertainment of "putting Christians' in their place" but you haven't really asked anything that would prove Christianity wrong.

I'm agnostic, son. I do believe in a higer power...

And you think I'm really trying to put Christians and religious nutcases in their place? I haven't even started and already I've won. But if you wanna see that I can I'll type down a questions for them.


Here's 1 question. Hell - does it make sense to you? Because it doesn't to me... unless the devil is actually in cahoots with god, the entire premise of hell makes no sense to me. Why would the devil punish people who don't believe in god? Shouldn't hell be some heathen paradise as a reward for sinners?

If you have an answer quote this and reply. If I get a good response I'll ask another one.



Unfortunately, I envy them. I wish I could be so brainless to believe something that there is no proof besides for a book written by men, and translated by even more men over the course of thousands of years. I wish I could find the pure and blind faith to never ask for proof and ask questions. But I don't. But these questions should do nothing but make any knowledged person laugh.

Dear God,

Thanks for muscles that contract spontaneously. And an immune system that can't tell the difference between a speck of dust and an invading army of microbes. And the dual use of the throat for eating/drinking and breathing - that's real classy. Also, thanks for the bounty of undrinkable water on this planet - that'll come in handy. And barren, lifeless deserts. And 110°F summers. And hurricanes. And random meteor strikes.

Oh and one more thing God. As our creator, I would like to give thanks on behalf of all of humanity for the following...

- For giving homo sapiens an appendix which serves no purpose other than to become infected and potentially life threatening.

- For our extremely poorly designed and vulnerable knee joints.

- For allowing the hair on our arms to stick up, providing no useful resistance to cold or wind, as it does with other animals.

- For testing us by afflicting some (including your most ardent followers) with blindness, leukemia, sickle cell anemia, bipolar disorder, autism, deafness, alzheimer's, man there are too many to list.

- For creating a world in which you knew in advance that atrocities would be committed in your name, yet have done nothing to directly (or even indirectly for that matter) to stop them.

- For allowing your followers to further the spread of AIDS and promote world overpopulation.

- For subverting the rights of women everywhere.

- For contradicting your own stories in every book written by you or directly on your behalf.

- For poisoning the minds of children, often irreparably, so that you may serve as their 'shepherd' and reducing your greatest creation to that of a mindless herd animal.

There are many more things for which I'd like to give you thanks, and I humbly beg your forgiveness for being unable to come up with them at this time.

In Jesus' name
Amen.

[stillaneon]

Here's 1 question. Hell - does it make sense to you? Because it doesn't to me... unless the devil is actually in cahoots with god, the entire premise of hell makes no sense to me. Why would the devil punish people who don't believe in god? Shouldn't hell be some heathen paradise as a reward for sinners?

If you have an answer quote this and reply. If I get a good response I'll ask another one.




Of course he is. Read Job. It says the devils strolls into Heaven talking to angels. That was his home. Satan may not be the pure evil that everyone believes. Maybe he just reminds God of the other side.

And The Devil has no say in Hell, he was cast there by God just as the unforgiven.

I'm pretty much done in this thread. I was hoping for more debate so I could get into nitty gritty. but I end up arguing for a side I don't neccesarioly believe in.


And you are correct. I can't say for a fact that God doesn't exist. I can say that I don;t believe and until I find sufficient evidence to sway me otherwise, I will remain with the beliefs I have.

[ISAtlanta300]

Here's 1 question. Hell - does it make sense to you? Because it doesn't to me... unless the devil is actually in cahoots with god, the entire premise of hell makes no sense to me. Why would the devil punish people who don't believe in god? Shouldn't hell be some heathen paradise as a reward for sinners?



This is just to answer the quesion. I'm not making any claims on my beliefs; only what I know and/or perceive on the subject at hand.


Like was said before, the premise of Hell was created by God Himself, not Satan. Satan was actually cast into Hell. Therefore, he had no control on what Hell would look like.

And the reason why the devil punish people is because we are God's creation. Remember, we were created in 'His' image, so therefore, any of us going to Hell would incite anger towards His divine creation. Since they can not harm God, they would thus put all their anger towards any lost soul who gets banished to Hell. It is a way to 'get back at God', so to speak.

Remember though, that God would rather see you in heaven than hell. It is therefore that Jesus sacrificed Himself for humanity, so that we would get eternal life. He actually feels very bad for anyone who strays to the path of damnation. But he has no control over people's actions due to our free will.

Why wouldn't the devil praise anyone for following him? Well for one, if you know the devil, you'd realize he is sometimes called the 'big deceiver'. Promising you riches on earth, but giving you damnation in Hell. It's not like it's a race that whomever gets the most souls win. Rather, it is his challenge on how many souls he can take away from God and Heaven. It is his version of 'payback', since he knows that God suffers and feels sorry for every 'child' He loses (remember, we are also referred to as "God's Children". So don't expect any praises or high-fives from the devil for following him....he is in it for his pleasure, not yours.

It is also known that the devil and God do talk to each other. I wouldn't say that they are in 'cahoots', but it is a balanced system. I believe God, being the all powerfull creator would have no problem of just doing away with Hell and evil altogether. But without evil, we would have no choice but be slaves to the good. In order to uphold the free will, there must be a good and bad. In other words, Hell needs to continue to exist for us to always have a choice.

[onebadgt]

point well made, i like that view of it^

[Maniacc]

bump for big worm.

[Master Shake]

you cant prove an opinion wrong when its based on a BELIEF.how can you?
there is something out there, not sure what it is, but everything started up somehow. it may be god, or evolution, no one really knows, religion is really based on opinions and beliefs. all your surroundings have a big influence on how you take the matter, which is how you have the beliefs that you got.

for me, i live my life the way i see "god" would want me too. not the way someone else says i should. just be true to yourself and the ones around you. don't be following what someone else says you should.

well the preacher says if i smoke weed, i'm going to hell. well, it wasn't exactly "man made" so why would it be wrong? cause it fucks you up and gives you the munchies? "God" had it here when we came along, so whats the points of destroying one of his creations? how do we know "god" did put it here for us to use (and abuse) to see things in a different perspective that we otherwise would not have seen?:2cents:

[Maniacc]

well the preacher says if i smoke weed, i'm going to hell. well, it wasn't exactly "man made" so why would it be wrong? cause it fucks you up and gives you the munchies? "God" had it here when we came along, so whats the points of destroying one of his creations? how do we know "god" did put it here for us to use (and abuse) to see things in a different perspective that we otherwise would not have seen?:2cents:
Haha, repped!



...
Come on dude where you at?!

[BIG WORM]

bump for big worm.

School started back...less time for games.

Mania, in response to your post, but none of the others ppls, for some of them are so stupid I almost have reason to convert to Darwinism, by swearing some of you must have a monkey as a mother.

We've summed up a few things now, we now know that your a confirmed Agnostic, which makes you only half as dumb as the Atheist kids.

Being Agnostic is just a lazy mans excuse. It's basically saying, "I give up on finding the answer, I'll just sit here on my ass, and let the answer come to me."

You're a typical Agnostic, you believe in something, just unsure of what, so you kick in with cliche theological noncognitism, by denouncing religion in it's entirety, based on the fact that you cant make up your mind.

So unless God comes do you directly, you're never going to believe anything...right?

Two thirds of the worlds population have the same view of creationism and a belief in the monotheistic God of Abraham. Sure, they all have their "crazys" and many of them are lost in translation, but the overall view is there.

So considering the majority, do you really think by posting a thred insulting religions, one of which you will choose one day, is a good idea?? You're never going to convert any knowledgeable Christian, Jew, or Muslim. For they have a religion, they have seen or experienced what you long to have...giving them reason to their faith. So really, is there any point in being an Agnostic leader? The only people you're even entitled to convert, or make follow are the uneducated sheep and Athiest.

Most nontheistic people still believe in some sort of meaning of life, basically good vs. evil. Take Buddhish, or Ayyavazhi beliefs for example. You have to draw the line somewhere, what I'm trying to determine is where you line is, if any.

And for the record, It's not that others are unable to "hang" with you in the stupid internet discussions, It's you that often results to childish insults or comments as a defense when being cornered in a conversation, causing others to give up, to save themselves the time, and insults.

If your going to debate, debate with some knowledge, don't belittle all who disagree. God knows, some of these kids on IA could use some knowledge.

example of childish remark:



The Maniac's Two Commandments.
I. Fuck all commandments
II. Fuck you

You're obviously a leader, but I disagree with the way you're attempting to lead, and where you're attempting to lead the one's that follow.
(Especially, considering you don't know yourself.)

[BIG WORM]

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

added note: Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah, but not the son of God. They don't believe in the Trinity.


The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.

....and Judaism was founded based on God's covenant with the Jews and the Ten Commandments.


The 10 commandments are:

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think



3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.

.....................


An attempt to help open qwik's eyes...It's not just the Christians hommie. Christians aren't the only one's that believe in the Ten Commandments, they are also written in the Torah. If you mocked the words of the Torah, like you did with your blasphemous post of the Ten Commandments in Israel, you would most likley be beaten to death. Same goes for Islam, if you were anywhere in the middle east and mocked the words of Jesus, or the prophet Mohamed, you would most likely be killed. So laugh it out while you can you pedantic fool. Religion is not a joke.

[Maniacc]

...
Bravo!

BIG WORM, you have now gained some respect. Because not only are you somewhat of a smartass but you're clearly not as stupid as a lot of IA members. There's really no need to continue(Although I could)... we pretty much know one anothers' point of view on this.

:goodjob: Good job, dude.

[99hatch]

added note: Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah, but not the son of God. They don't believe in the Trinity.

....and Judaism was founded based on God's covenant with the Jews and the Ten Commandments.

An attempt to help open qwik's eyes...It's not just the Christians hommie. Christians aren't the only one's that believe in the Ten Commandments, they are also written in the Torah. If you mocked the words of the Torah, like you did with your blasphemous post of the Ten Commandments in Israel, you would most likley be beaten to death. Same goes for Islam, if you were anywhere in the middle east and mocked the words of Jesus, or the prophet Mohamed, you would most likely be killed. So laugh it out while you can you pedantic fool. Religion is not a joke.

Who is laughing. I made no Joke and Im not laughing. Nor did I bash the Ten Commandments, but the gentleman i replied to was saying basically that if you follow the Ten Commandments then you are going to heaven and if you dont follow them then you are going to hell. That is just simply not the case, especially in Christianity. First off God is forgiving and will forgive you if you do break these Commandments. (of course you have to show actual remorse when you ask for forgivness.) I am in no way saying go out and break the commandments. I just believe that they are rules for you to live by. But What did Jesus say to the theif that was on the cross next to him before they died. He forgave him, even though he was a thief. He broke one of the commandments by stealing. But he saw the wrong in his ways and how awsome Jesus was for staying there on the Cross for Mankind. I was just shedding light on one fact that Christianity is based on more than just the Ten Commandments. If you would like to discuss other bits of the Bible I am more than willing. I cannot tell you about Muslims although i have done a good bit of research about their religion. I can only tell you what I believe. I dont believe in what Muslims believe, nor do I believe what mormons believe, although some of our beliefs do share some commonalities.

[ShooterMcGavin]

You believe this God created us through a series of highly elaborate near impossibly random series of events?
maybe, maybe not. but at the same time you believe we just popped into existence suddenly bc of a similar near impossible random series of events?

[BIG WORM]

Who is laughing. I made no Joke and Im not laughing. Nor did I bash the Ten Commandments, but the gentleman i replied to was saying basically that if you follow the Ten Commandments then you are going to heaven and if you dont follow them then you are going to hell. That is just simply not the case, especially in Christianity. First off God is forgiving and will forgive you if you do break these Commandments. (of course you have to show actual remorse when you ask for forgivness.) I am in no way saying go out and break the commandments. I just believe that they are rules for you to live by. But What did Jesus say to the theif that was on the cross next to him before they died. He forgave him, even though he was a thief. He broke one of the commandments by stealing. But he saw the wrong in his ways and how awsome Jesus was for staying there on the Cross for Mankind. I was just shedding light on one fact that Christianity is based on more than just the Ten Commandments. If you would like to discuss other bits of the Bible I am more than willing. I cannot tell you about Muslims although i have done a good bit of research about their religion. I can only tell you what I believe. I dont believe in what Muslims believe, nor do I believe what mormons believe, although some of our beliefs do share some commonalities.

I should clarify,
I was agreeing with you post,
That's why I quoted it.
I was adding to to it and directing the post towards "Qwik"


fixed....

[qwick]

An attempt to help open qwik's eyes...It's not just the Christians hommie. Christians aren't the only one's that believe in the Ten Commandments, they are also written in the Torah. If you mocked the words of the Torah, like you did with your blasphemous post of the Ten Commandments in Israel, you would most likley be beaten to death. Same goes for Islam, if you were anywhere in the middle east and mocked the words of Jesus, or the prophet Mohamed, you would most likely be killed. So laugh it out while you can you pedantic fool. Religion is not a joke.




I agree if I did live over in the Middle East I would most likely be killed for the beliefs I have here in the United States. Of course if I would have grown up over there I am willing to bet that my views on this subject would be drastically different, due to the fact that they them selves are so close minded that no other alternative to their religion is tolerated.



Religion may or may not be a joke to you, but to me it is and I have the right to think that, just as you have the right to choose to believe in a religion. I also realize that the 10 commandments are part of other religions aside from just Christianity.

[Maniacc]

maybe, maybe not. but at the same time you believe we just popped into existence suddenly bc of a similar near impossible random series of events?
Actually I don't think that we just popped into existence and started clubbin', using drugs, starting wars, ect ect.
I'm not dull. But I wil say that evolution and the start of life is still something I'm doing research on. Besides the simple - microorganism evolving into a more complex organism and that organism evolving into a multi celled organism and so on... I want to learn everything I can about it.

I think it's an interesting topic and both anti/religious people should study. Reading actual documents about it with hardcore details is a lot better than reading a quick story book about how it tries to explain that life was created in a time frame that isn't even long enough for my facial hair to grow. But for some divine being 6 days is all it took to create different kinds of animals, oxygen & hydrogen, a weather system, natural phenomena, solar systems, super novas, ect. etc.

He can create all of that in a matter of days. Yet he can't help out people in need or create a world where there is no evil, murder and where everyone can live with no worries and no pain? Oh wait, that's what heaven is for. But to get there you have to kiss his ass and donate 10% of your hard earned money to an organization that promises and promises yet you never recieve anything in return. Funny how that works.

[99hatch]

I should clarify,
I was agreeing with you post,
That's why I quoted it.
I was adding to to it and directing the post towards "Qwik"


fixed....

Ohh ok i see what you did now, lol. I was thinking, where was I laughing at the ten commandments.

[99hatch]

Actually I don't think that we just popped into existence and started clubbin', using drugs, starting wars, ect ect.
I'm not dull. But I wil say that evolution and the start of life is still something I'm doing research on. Besides the simple - microorganism evolving into a more complex organism and that organism evolving into a multi celled organism and so on... I want to learn everything I can about it.

I think it's an interesting topic and both anti/religious people should study. Reading actual documents about it with hardcore details is a lot better than reading a quick story book about how it tries to explain that life was created in a time frame that isn't even long enough for my facial hair to grow. But for some divine being 6 days is all it took to create different kinds of animals, oxygen & hydrogen, a weather system, natural phenomena, solar systems, super novas, ect. etc.

He can create all of that in a matter of days. Yet he can't help out people in need or create a world where there is no evil, murder and where everyone can live with no worries and no pain? Oh wait, that's what heaven is for. But to get there you have to kiss his ass and donate 10% of your hard earned money to an organization that promises and promises yet you never receive anything in return. Funny how that works.

You need to get off of the whole 6 days thing. Yes the first verse of the Bible says this, did you get any further than that? Also in the Bible it states that God does not live under our "time." He doesn't live on earth where the world rotates completely around in a 24 hour period. So therefor 1 day to him is not 24 hours like it is to us. There is one verse, i am looking for it now, but cant find it right this sec..........that states that a day to God is like 77,000 days to us. (don't direct quote me, i will post the verse later when i find it.) So yes it says God created the earth in 6 days, but his days are not the same. So Yes those days could have spanned over years in time.

Also if you want a world with no evil in it, then why even have a world to begin with. If you didn't have the choice of free will, then we would all just be some mindless robots. The Devil runs the earth till Jesus comes back. Thats why we have evil in the world.

Let me ask you a question. You say you don't want to base your belief's on faith alone. I can understand that. For someone to have faith in anything they need to have proof that it exists......Maybe you haven't seen that proof yet, and I would be skeptical as well. However to believe in evolution you have to have faith in it. There is no proven fact that evolution happened. I find it a lot easier to believe God created Earth and everything else, than there was a ball of matter than exploded and over millions of years everything in our world fell into place. Our Ecosystems, the way that plants use carbon dioxide but put out Oxygen, and we are the opposite.........How everything in our environment coincides so well. This is just one example, but look at the world around you and you want to tell me that all this happened by chance.

Sir Fred Hoyle said that ... the origin of life ... the information content of the higher forms of life is represented by the number 1040 000 - representing the specificity with which some 2,000 genes, each of which might be chosen from 1020 nucleotide sequences of the appropriate length .... The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that `a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein'. " (Hoyle, F., in "Hoyle on evolution," Nature, Vol. 294, 12 November 1981, p.105).

[Maniacc]

You need to get off of the whole 6 days thing. Yes the first verse of the Bible says this, did you get any further than that? Also in the Bible it states that God does not live under our "time." He doesn't live on earth where the world rotates completely around in a 24 hour period. So therefor 1 day to him is not 24 hours like it is to us. There is one verse, i am looking for it now, but cant find it right this sec..........that states that a day to God is like 77,000 days to us. (don't direct quote me, i will post the verse later when i find it.) So yes it says God created the earth in 6 days, but his days are not the same. So Yes those days could have spanned over years in time.

I've read a lot more, skippy.
And from my understanding a day for God is 1,000 years.



Also if you want a world with no evil in it, then why even have a world to begin with. If you didn't have the choice of free will, then we would all just be some mindless robots. The Devil runs the earth till Jesus comes back. Thats why we have evil in the world.

Do you also believe that evil sprits hangout in our upper atmosphere?

Are animales evil too because of lucifer? Or are they just doing what their instincts are telling 'em to?



Let me ask you a question. You say you don't want to base your belief's on faith alone. I can understand that. For someone to have faith in anything they need to have proof that it exists......Maybe you haven't seen that proof yet, and I would be skeptical as well. However to believe in evolution you have to have faith in it. There is no proven fact that evolution happened. I find it a lot easier to believe God created Earth and everything else, than there was a ball of matter than exploded and over millions of years everything in our world fell into place. Our Ecosystems, the way that plants use carbon dioxide but put out Oxygen, and we are the opposite.........How everything in our environment coincides so well. This is just one example, but look at the world around you and you want to tell me that all this happened by chance.

Actually Mr. Hatch there is proof of evoultion out there. I've read on some experiments that some scientists are conducting. They're doing something with the dna on some bird(forgot the name, but will look for it later) and noticed that the embryo changes. The bird during the process grows teeth, similier to a raptors'. Another one also grew feathers, or what looked to be feathers.

This experiment or act of devolution should be proof that our current birds do have some characteristics very simlier to dinosaurs. Not saying they came straight out of the Jurassic period but im sure this should be some nice evidence that can back up evolution.

And if you would like to continue with me on this discussion could you please post up something new that I've not already replied to once in the past? And something new like new data and new information that would actually give me a chance to use my mighty brain powa! Pretty please...



Sir Fred Hoyle said that ... the origin of life ... the information content of the higher forms of life is represented by the number 1040 000 - representing the specificity with which some 2,000 genes, each of which might be chosen from 1020 nucleotide sequences of the appropriate length .... The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that `a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein'. " (Hoyle, F., in "Hoyle on evolution," Nature, Vol. 294, 12 November 1981, p.105).

For one thing, evolution covers what life does after it exists. The origin of life is something else.

Also, what's wrong with your post is that you can't really calculate the probability of something occurring after it's occurred. And you certainly can't calculate the probability that beings able to calculate would occur, because if they didn't, you wouldn't be there to do it. Just because the chances of this planet... being at our current location - odds are indeed fucking insane! But, ask that dude to calculate the mathematical probability of God existing. It wouldn't be possible...

The real problem is that we don't have good priors. Given what we know about the universe, we might compute that the probability of all of this happening by chance is small. But we don't know very much. It might be that if we knew more, we would see that intelligent life was virtually inevitable.

And given that we exist, that should raise our priors regarding the overall likelihood. If you find a fly in your soup, it raises the probability that there will be more flies, even if your original estimate was that the probability of a fly was very low.

So to add to my evolution talk - adaptation is the first stage of evolution, without organisms adapting to their environment we wouldn't have formed. Yes I believe this, and if you believe that the way we were created was by Adam and Eve and the inner breeding of Noah and his family than you're too deep into the misconceptions of the bible. And my babbling is just as pointless as the stories in the bible. I can't change your mind but I hope you agree with me that this is entertaining and that learning new things and debating is a great way to get your brain pumpin'.

[BIG WORM]

I agree if I did live over in the Middle East I would most likely be killed for the beliefs I have here in the United States. Of course if I would have grown up over there I am willing to bet that my views on this subject would be drastically different, due to the fact that they them selves are so close minded that no other alternative to their religion is tolerated.



Religion may or may not be a joke to you, but to me it is and I have the right to think that, just as you have the right to choose to believe in a religion. I also realize that the 10 commandments are part of other religions aside from just Christianity.

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIA, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)

[qwick]

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIA, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)


Good question man.

Just because I don’t believe in a religion doesn’t mean I’m heartless. I understand that people are afraid of death, if these scenarios should happen to me I would comfort who ever is dying to the best of my ability. If Im asked by the dying person “what do you think will happen to me?” I would first ask them what they believe and then base my answer off of their response.





Honestly no one on Earth can correctly and indefinitely answer the question “what is gonna happen to me when I die?” Because none of us knows for sure. If there is a God I hope he understands what has happened in my life to make me not believe in him, and can find the compassion to forgive me. If it turns out that there realy isnt a God well then, “I told you so” is really all that’s left to say.

[Maniacc]

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIAC, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)
Both of my parents are very religious. So if they believe they are going to heaven and will be in a better place then I'll comfort them until they pass on. I won't sit there and tell them that their hopes of reaching heaven is ludicrous. I won't be a complete cold hearted person... I just don't like religion.

Does that make me a bad guy? No... I have my own opinion about it just like you have yours.

[alpine_aw11]

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIA, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)

When my extremely religious grandfather passed right next to me, of course I didn't say "Well, you're goin nowhere sucka!" I don't openly challenge religious people because I understand the comfort it offers for them. I must say the talk I had with my parents about me refusing to attend church anymore was extremely awkward, but they were accepting of it. Honestly when I'm on my death bed, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to say if I'm told I'm going to a better place. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Blitanicle99]

When it all comes down to is trying to argue with faith.

Good luck.

[zimabog]

Do you believe in the periodic table of elements?
yes

Do you believe in Evolution?
yes

Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory?
No, I have done much research on it and there are so many flaws in the theory its not even funny, the way they tried to prove it is just as flawed as Christians trying to prove God using the Bible. Plus it was invented by a Roman Catholic priest.

"So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundaries or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" - Stephen Hawking

If the universe was created by god, and god as always existed; then why can't the universe have always existed, then what place for a god? None.

Do you believe in the Universe?
yes

I am an agnostic atheist.

Agnostic = w/o knowledge. I am agnostic about the existence of a supreme entity (both pantheistic or personal). Anyone who has knowledge about either existence or non-existence is either super super smart, or totally crazy/dumbass.

I am an atheist (w/o god) since I don't believe in a god. I am 100% atheist when it comes to the god of Abraham. Its not denying a god, its just not believing.

I consider myself having the same belief as Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, they are an agnostic atheists like myself. Its just the most logical position.

If you are a dedicated Christian, Muslim, or Jew I don't see how in earth you can believe in heaven/hell made for humans and believe in evolution at the same time.
If you believe in evolution and believe in the afterlife answer me this:
Where in the evolutionary process did your god decide to make an afterlife for a type of creature? If evolution is true, do monkeys go to heaven? How about rats? Do cockroaches go to heaven? What about aliens? And here it is: Does a single blade of grass goes to heaven/hell based on how good that blade of grass was in it's life?

If you are a dedicated Christian/Jew, why do you care so much about a god that would tell a father to sacrifice his son, sacrifice animals, allow you to sell your daughter into slavery? If he is so egotistic and narcissistic, why give a fuck about that god? Why does a so called benevolent god act to malevolently?

Why does your god look over an airliner crashing into Hudson River yet turn it's back on the 80 million people who died in WW2 and such. Why did your god allow the engines of the flight 1549 flameout in the first place?

Do you believe Jesus was the son of god and Mary had a virgin birth? Here's my argument, try to disprove it Christians without saying "because God did it". A geneticist can't be a full on Christian if they paid attention in school.
A man has an X and a Y chromosome. The Y chromosome comes from the father. The X from the mother. The Y can ONLY come from the father. If Mary did have a virgin birth, Jesus would have an XX set of chromosomes, making Jesus FEMALE!!! If you say "God must have put his Y chromosome in there." If that has happened, then that must mean your god is homo sapien. If your god is homo sapien, then answer me why is your god a homo sapien and not a homo erectus, homo ergaster, homo neanderthalensis, or even a tree. Why isnt your god a tree? If your god was a homo sapien, then how come your god can exist before the evolutionary process produced a homo sapien? If you say "because he choose that speicies" then answer the above question about why isnt your god a tree or homo erectus. If you have no good answer for that and you still believe in Jesus's virgin birth, then you must not believe in evolution.

Does Adam and Eve have bellybuttons?

Please explain why your god has a better chance of existing than an invisible pink unicorn?

I am agnostic about the invisible pink unicorn, I cant prove or disprove it.
I have faith that its pink, but one could say they KNOW it's invisible because they can't see it.

One could believe that 100 million light years away there is a very large asteroid that has a large and detailed crater formation that looks EXACTLY like Barack Obama. But the crater formation is on the other side than facing Earth. PLEASE DISPROVE OR PROVE THAT!!!

See, its just as silly as all major religions. Why waste your time with religion, one doesn't need religion to have morals and ethics, one just need's their brain. Plus like half of the 10 Commandments are about God, who wants to waste their life caring about a narcissistic whiny god who acts like a toddler?

[Maniacc]

Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory?
No, I have done much research on it and there are so many flaws in the theory its not even funny, the way they tried to prove it is just as flawed as Christians trying to prove God using the Bible. Plus it was invented by a Roman Catholic priest.

I agree with you on this to a certain extent. But you comparing it to the God that is mentioned in the bible is just too funny for me to ignore. I've only done so much research on it myself. And pretty much haven't found anything that could prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

Only thing we can say is that; everything has to begin somehow - and you have to be pretty stubborn to think otherwise. The universe had a beginning.



"So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundaries or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" - Stephen Hawking

If the universe was created by god, and god as always existed; then why can't the universe have always existed, then what place for a god? None.

Bottom line is this:

God did NOT create this universe.
God did NOT create man.
God did NOT create existence.

Anyone who wants argue this simply can NOT... without using some sort of excuse.

The rest of your post was pretty much on point though. Very impressive... :goodjob:

[zimabog]

Only thing we can say is that; everything has to begin somehow - and you have to be pretty stubborn to think otherwise. The universe had a beginning.

How do you logically assume the universe had a birth?

[Maniacc]

How do you logically assume the universe had a birth?
Every known 'thing' in our existence has a beginning(birth) and an end(death).

One thing can not go on forever and have existed before reality.

[zimabog]

One thing can not go on forever and have existed before reality.

Unless reality has gone on forever.

[man]

Every known 'thing' in our existence has a beginning(birth) and an end(death).

One thing can not go on forever and have existed before reality.

What was before the birth of the universe?

[ISAtlanta300]

Every known 'thing' in our existence has a beginning(birth) and an end(death).

One thing can not go on forever and have existed before reality.

Emphasis on 'KNOWN 'THING'.

Could it not be that "GOD" is one of these unknown 'Things' that would not necessarily abide by those laws?

[Maniacc]

Emphasis on 'KNOWN 'THING'.

Could it not be that "GOD" is one of these unknown 'Things' that would not necessarily abide by those laws?

What was before the birth of the universe?

Unless reality has gone on forever.
ISAtlanta300 - What I meant by 'every known thing' I meant cells - solar systems. Every single thing in one way or another has to created some how. The difference with God is that you can't be certain if there is even one to begin with. Trying to say that ONE being out there has been existing since before reality just doesn't make sense.

That's why I too argue the big bang because just like my theory about everything having to have a birth and a way to be 'created' the big bang falls into the 'can't be explained catagory.' I personally can't accept that God created life and every single thing on it. Random mutations in my ancestors' genetic code and a continual natural selection process as the environment continued to change over billions of years, together with the sexual selection of my ancestors' mates, have led to me. I am the result of an unbroken chain of living beings who successfully had progeny! This is how I think we came to be.

But then, what's just another theory? Might as well have been poofed into existence from dust, right? God created Adam and Eve. After a talking snake tricked them into eating an apple from God's forbidden tree, they were banished to earth. They had children, and those children had lots of incest to create more children. Over thousands of years of this cycle, here I am!

Gosh, now that sounds a lot better than my previous theory of how we all came to be. Maaannn, I've been wrong all along! *slaps forehead*


fcman - Well, what's wrong with that question is that you can't really calculate the probability of something occurring after it's occurred. :D


zimabog - I think at this point in time, our minds cannot comprehend or even begin to give reasonable/educated answers to solve this question. Although, I do think it's important to ask ourselves this question - you got to start somewhere.

Also, did you know bananas not only fit perfectly in our hands, but also in our assholes? Further evidence of humans being created by a higher power no doubt.

[zimabog]

I didn't know that the search for an ultimate answer involved inserting a banana into ones rectum.

[Maniacc]

I didn't know that the search for an ultimate answer involved inserting a banana into ones rectum.
The thing is everything was created for us.

A banana was created for us to eat. And to perfectly fit in our hands. Golly, God sure is one super duper smart mofo.

[barfmachine]

God is dead n shit.

I think if there was or is a god, he's just a lonely dude who went crazy after a while, not having anyone to play with and all.
He has multiple personality disorders and life is just a virtual reality video game he plays to forget that he's the only thing that exists.

Not that I believe in god, but if i did,
how many billions of years could go by before you lose your shit.

[BIG WORM]

God is dead n shit.

I think if there was or is a god, he's just a lonely dude who went crazy after a while, not having anyone to play with and all.
He has multiple personality disorders and life is just a virtual reality video game he plays to forget that he's the only thing that exists.

Not that I believe in god, but if i did,
how many billions of years could go by before you lose your shit.

Wow. Educated post. You should become street preacher against street preaching.

There's a lot of brains here on IA.

[zimabog]

http://slurmed.com/returns/images/04_bwbb_screenshot_-yivo-proposes.jpg

[civictR]

http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=336687344630&id=1ca35659b675a431edd4a45db1859a5d i believe in the guy.. anyother are fake.
http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=586114142292&id=0fc5653711deefedc7e4aeb27e7414e0 and this too.

[Maniacc]

I get asked this question so many times. Why do you think the way you do, Maniac? Why don't you have faith? And I never care to explain myself but I think I will right now since I'm pretty fucking bored.

...

Okay, as a kid I would go to Sunday school as most of us latinos do. I was too young to exactly know the influence and power that was being slipped into my young, unwilling, and unknowing mind. This period I have little memory of, but this is when the bonds of religion make their biggest impact - when you are young and soaking up all of this 'information' they put in your head as 'fact' in an attempt to prevent questioning it afterward.

So many people just 'go along with it' because it's what they have done since they were a child. Don't get me wrong though. Sunday school was fun - during lunch break and recess that is haha. Oh, and flirting with all the girls. :p

So after a couple years went by I grew and continued feeling this way. After a while all these thoughts, and others, I came to the conclusion religion was not for me. Too many things didn't add up, and I just did not have this 'faith' that basically ignorantly tied together loose ends with a make believe bond. To further explain what I mean by that - there are many things that do not make sense, at all, in regards to the Bible, religion, God, etc. How are those things addressed? You just have to have faith, is what they say. So, faith is this invisible bond that puts together these loose ends, not answers, but faith. Two completely different things, but in religion they are looked at with the same purpose.

The longer I went with that the more I realized that God is simply an emotion.

Marinate on this for a min.

When things go bad - people turn to God.
When things go well - people praise God.
When someone is lost - they talk to God.
When someone is hopeful - they pray to God.
When someone is lonely or afraid - they talk to God.

It took me awhile to fully realize all of that, but the more I realized it, the faster the truth came to me. It all came down to this: God is simply an emotion one creates to deal with uncertainty. The human mind does not like leaving things at 'I don't know.' It's frustrating to try and come to terms that you literally do not know something. You can't guess, can't lean more to one side than the other - you just straight up do not know. And how do you deal with that? You put God in it's place. Instead of not knowing you just say God is responsible.

It's just a constant trend.

For serious things such as death it puts one at ease to actually trick themselves to thinking they DO know and it, of course, has to deal with God. It's much easier to say 'I will go to heaven when I die and meet God' than it is 'I have no idea what is going to happen when I die.'

For less serious things, such as being alone/going through hard times/etc, it's comforting to think there is something out there listening, so it again all deals with God. It is much easier to pray and talk to God with this notion that he is listening, than it is to sit in a room and admit to yourself that you have no one else to talk to.

Again, it's just such a trend. So many people and celebrities go to rehab or jail and come out with some huge religious experience, and it's like why? It's because they were alone, afraid, and in a bad position. It's much easier to believe God is there and will help you instead of facing the fact that you are a heroin junkie with no one to talk to in your room at a rehab clinic.

All that's left for my thoughts are to simply sum them up to such a simple and short message: God is an emotion. From this I can say: Man created God - not the other way around.

This is just how I think and view religion. All the smartass/sarcastic comments are just put there to keep things spicy. It's cool to have something - if it's God then good for you. But placing a truth stamp on the bible to me is just ridiculous. I don't like to hide my emotions when it comes to this so if I've offended some people with some of my posts' then all I can say is; grow the fuck up.

[civictR]

boring:::;;...;;;.

[civictR]

i gotta fart..........................................feel much better. it kinda smell like egg.

[bookthief]

Summarizing some of the unsolved problems confronting evolution,
Francis Hitching observed: "In three crucial areas where [the modern evolution theory] can be tested, it has failed:
The fossil record reveals a pattern of evolutionary leaps rather than gradual change.
Genes are a powerful stabilizing mechanism whose main function is to prevent new forms evolving. Randon step-by-step mutations at the molecular level cannot explain the organized and growing complexity of life."
Then Hitching concluded by making this observation: "To put it at its mildest, one may question an evolutionary theory so beset by doubts among even those who teach it. If Darwinism is truly the great unifying principle of biology, it encompasses extraordinary large areas of ignorance. It fails to explain some of the most basic questions of all: how lifeless chemicals came alive, what rules of grammar lie behind the genetic code, how genes shape the form of living things."
In fact, Hitching stated that he considered the modern theory of evolution "so inadequate that it deserves to be treated as a matter of faith."

[AirMax95]

This is still going?

You can't prove either way, evolution or God's creation. Give it a rest, lol!

[Got Milk?]

Idk whats going on in here, but since its about religion ill join.

I'm a muslim. I beleive in straping a bomb around my chest and running into bunch of folks. But no joke, i am muslim and i beleive in following things:

1.There is god
2.I beleive in faith
3.I beleive in hell and heaven.

Those are few things. I could go and on and on about what Kur'an has to say.

And if you ever read Kur'an, and read the bible or talked to someone who read the bible, you will find out that there are soooooo many similarities between what Kur'an say, and what bible say.

What i also beleive is that religion is made up. I also believe that everyone came from one women and one man, which in my opinion makes us all brother and sisters.

And I HATE WHEN PEOPLE TRY AND MAKE SOMEONE BELEIVE WHAT THEY BELEIVE IN.

NONE OF US REALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED 30000000 YEARS AGO OR W.E.

NOONE HAS ANY PROOF BUT WRITTEN DOWN BOOKS.

Writing was invented because the passing down of information verbally from person to person or from people to people was becoming quite unreliable and could be subject to almost irreversible distortion or manipulation.



WRITING WAS NOT INVENTED TILL LONG TIME AFTER JESUS, MUHAMMED ETC...W.E. YOU MAY BELEIVE IN. SO HOW DO WE KNOW THAT INFORMATION THAT WAS PASSED DOWN WAS NOT CHANGED SOME WHERE IN THE MIDDLE BEFORE IT WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN DOWN.


NOBODY KNOWS HOW IT IS WHEN YOU DIE, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS IF THERE IS GOD, NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING TILL THEY DIE AND SEE. WE ALL CAN JUST BELEIVE IN WHAT WE WERE TOLD TO BELEIVE AS KIDS.

I ALSO HATE WHEN PEOPLE TELL OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE WRONG AT WHAT THEY BELEIVE IN.


:2cents:

[Maniacc]

This is still going?

You can't prove either way, evolution or God's creation. Give it a rest, lol!

I'm fucking Maniac, man. What do you expect?



lIn fact, Hitching stated that he considered the modern theory of evolution "so inadequate that it deserves to be treated as a matter of faith."

There's a difference between an evolution theory and faith.

You should know better.



i gotta fart..........................................feel much better. it kinda smell like egg.

CivictR is the only person known to man who got rejected in an attempt to make extra cash at the sperm bank with his donation. Turns out there's enough retarded people in this world.

Seriously, shut the fuck up.

[Maniacc]

WRITING WAS NOT INVENTED TILL LONG TIME AFTER JESUS, MUHAMMED ETC...W.E. YOU MAY BELEIVE IN. SO HOW DO WE KNOW THAT INFORMATION THAT WAS PASSED DOWN WAS NOT CHANGED SOME WHERE IN THE MIDDLE BEFORE IT WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN DOWN.
Hahaha, omfg I hope you're not fucking serious!

You're saying that literature was invented AFTER Jesus and Mohammed? :lmao: Wow, you're a lot dumber than I fucking thought.

[zimabog]

writing has been around since at least 3000BC

[Got Milk?]

Hahaha, omfg I hope you're not fucking serious!

You're saying that literature was invented AFTER Jesus and Mohammed? :lmao: Wow, you're a lot dumber than I fucking thought.

actual writing was not invented till after, ingravings, stones etc was around which we find today on rocks and shit. But my point was, who is to say that they are right in what the beleive.

[Got Milk?]

writing has been around since at least 3000BC

how would u know this, just cus some scientist or w.e. dug up a stone, and some how they made hypothesis that its from 3000bc or w.e.?

[RL...]

I am GOD bow before me:yes:

[bookthief]

There's a difference between an evolution theory and faith.

You should know better.

Many advocates of evolution feel that they do have sufficient reason to insist that evolution is a fact. They explain that they are just arguing over details. But if any other theory had such enormous remaining difficulties, and such major contradictions among those who advocate it, would it so readily be pronounced a fact? Merely repeating that something is a fact does not make it a fact. As John R. Durant, a biologist, wrote in The Guardian of London: "Many scientists succumb to the temptation to be dogmatic,...over and over again the question of the origin of the species has presented as if it were finally settled. Nothing could be further from the truth...But the tendency to be dogmatic persists, and it does no service to the cause of science."

[zimabog]

well a lot of the tablets actually have the date printed on them. of course its not like "2/11/09" or something. A lot use astrological methods which are still know today. Also, writing is found within the tombs of kings and such. Radiocarbon dating on the kings can help date those. To be truthful, even stuff written a milena before Jesus was supposedly around is pretty darn clear. Very early chinese character writing was found on turtle shells, radiocarbon dating to around 6500BC. On cuneiform tablets, the name of the scribe, date, and the city were it was written is inscribed on the tablet. Hieroglyphs are from about 3000 BC too and are also detailed. We know what they say because translations of Egyptian hieroglyphs into Greek have been found. The spoken language of ancient Egypt is very similar to Coptic, which is widely known.

[zimabog]

we see bacteria evolve all the time.

[qwick]

NEW TOPIC: The Shroud of Turin.

I just wanted to get some of the "believers" take on this thing. Is it real? is the man depicted in it Jesus, and any other thought yall might have on it.

[Maniacc]

actual writing was not invented till after, ingravings, stones etc was around which we find today on rocks and shit. But my point was, who is to say that they are right in what the beleive.
So you think that just because civilization started producing books and school systems that it was all due to the event that took place 2,000 years ago in Calvary? Perhaps it was due to intelligence and the desire to understand what life is... ask questions, science, literature, art, music, ect.

Seriously man, the birth of society was not due to Jesus Christ or anyone else. We made the advancements NOT Jesus/God/Santa Claus/Lucifer or the Easter Bunny.

[Maniacc]

Many advocates of evolution feel that they do have sufficient reason to insist that evolution is a fact. They explain that they are just arguing over details. But if any other theory had such enormous remaining difficulties, and such major contradictions among those who advocate it, would it so readily be pronounced a fact? Merely repeating that something is a fact does not make it a fact. As John R. Durant, a biologist, wrote in The Guardian of London: "Many scientists succumb to the temptation to be dogmatic,...over and over again the question of the origin of the species has presented as if it were finally settled. Nothing could be further from the truth...But the tendency to be dogmatic persists, and it does no service to the cause of science."
So you're some brainiac now huh? You paying more attention in science class now?

I don't need to post up a huge wall of text just to shut you up because I know that you're not educated enough in this subject and that you're not going to be able to respond with something of equal value.

[AirMax95]

Seriously man, the birth of society was not due to Jesus Christ or anyone else. We made the advancements NOT Jesus/God/Santa Claus/Lucifer or the Easter Bunny.

Prove it......prove that the birth of society was not due to God and/or Jesus Christ. Screw the movie 10 Commandments, screw Passion of the Christ, screw it all.

Prove that there is no God, then prove that we exist due to evolution. Screw the scientist and paleontologist where'd they come from any way? We have no fucking clue.

Santa and the Easter Bunny......is bullshit, lol! Number 1 and 2 of paganism.

Maniac is right on lots of stuff, wayyyyyy back in this thread he called people out; lots of you asses fell for it too. We call ourselves religious and believe that Jesus died so that we may live, he payed for our sins. God put in place 10 simple things to live by for a place in the kingdom after death.

Christianity has been twisted and torn down over time. The foundation is there, but people have interpreted it however they feel to fit their needs. :no:

I see what is right and wrong based off how I was raised, and what I have seen in life. Religious faith is a blueprint that needs to be understood and not taken at FACE VALUE. If you go to church and just listen to a person spew words, you need a little work. If you do not study your book for clarification and understanding, you need a little work. Half stepping any belief is a waste of time. Get you knowledge game up ;)

Good debates here, carry on, lol!

Maniac, kick rocks, lol!

[Maniacc]

This has been a very successful troll, haha.

Bottom line is this: I am a lot smarter than a lot of you in the thread when it comes to religion. I can debate it all day - that's pretty much what I came in here to prove. :D I can't be beaten and whoever wants to prove me wrong can try.

[AirMax95]

This has been a very successful troll, haha.

Bottom line is this: I am a lot smarter than a lot of you in the thread when it comes to religion. I can debate it all day - that's pretty much what I came in here to prove. :D I can't be beaten and whoever wants to prove me wrong can try.

You are mean, lol. Now you have all of them questioning their beliefs. :goodjob: Debating this is a never ending road, but when you don't know your stuff you shorten your road and crash in to brick wall of dumb.

Hopefully you all have learned from this.

If you have a belief, whether its religion or the special way your shoes should be tied, believe it and UNDERSTAND it. :cheers:

[Got Milk?]

Sorry, i never really studied histroy of writing, sorry for posting up false info. Just cause i made one false statment, doesnt mean im a complete dumb ass. get it dumb ass?

[Got Milk?]

So you think that just because civilization started producing books and school systems that it was all due to the event that took place 2,000 years ago in Calvary? Perhaps it was due to intelligence and the desire to understand what life is... ask questions, science, literature, art, music, ect.

Seriously man, the birth of society was not due to Jesus Christ or anyone else. We made the advancements NOT Jesus/God/Santa Claus/Lucifer or the Easter Bunny.

Sorry, you're smart im not. :gay: I never really got into the all how the earth was formed, how was writing formed and when or by whom etc...etc, still getting to that. :goodjob:

[AirMax95]

Sorry, i never really studied histroy of writing, sorry for posting up false info. Just cause i made one false statment, doesnt mean im a complete dumb ass. get it dumb ass?

Was this at me or Maniac? My post was to the people who said random trash than made no sense in any religion. They know who they are, lol.

[civictR]

[QUOTE]=Maniacurabus06]CivictR is the only person known to man who got rejected in an attempt to make extra cash at the sperm bank with his donation. Turns out there's enough retarded people in this world.

Seriously, shut the fuck up.[QUOTE]

Im making so much money in this economic crisis, so i don't need to donate any sperm. In fact im so successful that i willing to give parts alway for free. Go ahead and pray to your GOD and hope that he'll throw you a spare bone.:lmfao:

[Got Milk?]

Was this at me or Maniac? My post was to the people who said random trash than made no sense in any religion. They know who they are, lol.

Maniac.:cheers:

[bookthief]

So you're some brainiac now huh? You paying more attention in science class now?

I don't need to post up a huge wall of text just to shut you up because I know that you're not educated enough in this subject and that you're not going to be able to respond with something of equal value.

HAHAHAHAHA!
c'mon brother, I can take you.
You have taught me well:goodjob:

Ok what about this--what about creation as an explanation of how life got here? Does it offer a framework for the evidence that is any more sound than the assertions that often underpin evolution?
And, as the best-known creation account, does Genesis shed any credible light on how the earth and living things got here?

[Got Milk?]

2 things you should never try to argue about:

1.Religion
2.Politics

[ahabion]

Now, do take this as me NOT trying attack you in anyway as you can believe in what you want to believe in whatever form or fashion you want to. Great thing about being Human (especially in America) is the freedom of choice.

Just want to address some of your questions


Willing to die in so many ways - take suicide bombers. I'm sure they love their God oh so bad now huh? Where are they right now in your opinion? Hell or Heaven? I mean, in their eyes they're not doing anything wrong but to others their evil terrorists. Haha, Big Worm, your religion "analogy" is pathetic.

They do what they do because that is what they feel is right and ethically correct. In their reality (as screwed up as it may be for us) that is what they believe to be righteous and serving their god and their people.




Car insurance? Now, we have to pay a fee of X amount of money a month just to be safe and to have a back up plan just in case something goes wrong, eh? Dude, come on.

To touch on the analogy, some religions may have a fee, but its not just religions on a "god" standard, but can be anything as far as an organization or grouping of people... be it a dues, initiation, etc.




And to me, it's stupid to include religion in your life. You don't need it nor do you need to waste your time on some imaginary just to 'be on the safe side.' I for one do believe in something higer, something that we can't comprehend.

Is it a God? No, is it some guy who walked around 2000 something years ago? No. I don't know what it is so I'd rather not put a name to it. Make sense? Or should I go ahead and post a figure of what I think it is?

Believe in what you want to, again the freedom of choice. Just like the above suicide bombers, they made their choice to die for what they believed in. Just like how soldiers die for their country all the time. There is a faith there, a belief that what they are doing serves a greater purpose than their own..





I'm not willing to die for shit because I'm not a crazy ass lunatic.

Only religious nut cases go to that extreme. Why the hell should I do such ridiculous shit just to prove a point? Hahaha, religious people get asked the same question all the time. And what do they answer with? "Uhh, well, Jesus Christ still has a plan for me blah blah." Why can't they just say their a bunch of pussies and move on with their lifes?

Compare your meaning of a religious nut case and hold them side by side to a car enthusiast nut case. Some people are so deep into making their cars the fastest, prettiest, etc that they can spend their whole lifetime doing only that. I'm sure many people here and all have street raced before or even in a race before... not really the safest thing to do, but you do it because you believe in what you do, what your hands can build... etc. You are still doing something that you yourself believe in.



Are the "Evil Spirits" the police in this analogy? What if you do have car insurance and you fuck up? You're not covered - you have to pay. So if religion is like that - do you have to pay in, which way? Money, time in hell? Please tell me, I'm curious.

And also, you have many car insurance companies.
How do I know I will get covered as good as the other company? Would I be safer with a certain one then I would be with another?

I don't know about you man but I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

Going back on the insurance analogy, it's not the "evil Spirits" but the comparison of an afterlife if at all. If you have car insurance and you get into an accident, you are in a sense protected... but who is to say that you would ever get into an accident? That is the whole business of insurance after all... "the just in case something happens." If something does happen and you have insurance, great (hopefully you don't have to pay anything)... if something happens and you don't have insurance... your gunna get spanked in the wallet. The analogy of religion as insurance can be drawn using that principle... is that why I believe in my faith? No, not for me... for others it may very well be.

And yes you do have multiple insurance companies to choose from and like anyone else, they'd refer you to their insurance company OR the best one they've had... likewise, religions would do the same.

Touching back from the beginning, the great thing about being human in America is that you have the freedom of choice. Choose what insurance company you want to go with, the extent of your coverage, etc... but it doesn't end there for choices... you can also choose to do you're homework on who gives you the greatest benefits of insuring with them. The same holds true for religions... do your homework if you CHOOSE to join one. If not, then more power to you... again, freedom of choice.

[Maniacc]

Compare your meaning of a religious nut case and hold them side by side to a car enthusiast nut case. Some people are so deep into making their cars the fastest, prettiest, etc that they can spend their whole lifetime doing only that. I'm sure many people here and all have street raced before or even in a race before... not really the safest thing to do, but you do it because you believe in what you do, what your hands can build... etc. You are still doing something that you yourself believe in.
This would've been a better analogy. Bravo, dude. This part of your post was very very impressive.

[wanggsticky]

banned from heaven.. and going str8 to hell

[zimabog]

to bad it doesnt exist, or god would be in hell also (hes kind of a bad dude for those who never read the abrahamic books)

[Starrfire]

Perfect culmination of how I feel on the inside, just hate living in the bible belt where apparently everything is wrong and hell is imminent for anyone else who doesn't believe in christianity, who most of they themselves are hypocritical assholes.

[bookthief]

We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.
--Jonathan Swift





What they do in heaven we are ignorant of; what they do not do we are told expressly.
--Jonathan Swift

[BIG WORM]

NEW TOPIC: The Shroud of Turin.

I just wanted to get some of the "believers" take on this thing. Is it real? is the man depicted in it Jesus, and any other thought yall might have on it.

Research it.
It's real.

[qwick]

Research it.
It's real.

I have done some researched on it, as well as watched a doc. about it on the History channel.

And besides the fact that carbon dating showed that the cloth itself was not from the same era as Jesus, it was much newer. I wanted others opinions on it.

[BIG WORM]

I have done some researched on it, as well as watched a doc. about it on the History channel.

And besides the fact that carbon dating showed that the cloth itself was not from the same era as Jesus, it was much newer. I wanted others opinions on it.

actually that's old news, it was ripped at some point in time and repaired. The part that they cut, was newer from the repair, the rest dates back 2000 years ago, So the cloth is the real deal, the only thing debatable is,
"Was Jesus wrapped in this cloth."

[HeLLo iM iZzY]

You guys could've just asked Brett or QD for the answer if it was Jesus' cloth.

They used to to kick it with Jesus back in the dizzayy !

[qwick]

actually that's old news, it was ripped at some point in time and repaired. The part that they cut, was newer from the repair, the rest dates back 2000 years ago, So the cloth is the real deal, the only thing debatable is,
"Was Jesus wrapped in this cloth."

I actually knew this as well, but wanted to see if anyone else had studied up on it. The story is that someone used cotton fibers to reweave the torn parts of the cloth, and then died them to match the original cloth. With that said, is it not reasonable to believe that since this cloth has been tampered with once that it may have been tampered with in other ways? Maybe the image itself is a hoax done by the same expert fabric worker that rewove it? Also if memory serves me correctly they tested a small amount of the blood from the cloth and found that it was in fact human, unfortunately even though it was human it was female not male.

[zimabog]

also that blood is type AB blood, which didnt show up in humans until around 700AD