A world without order...

[Ran]

Has anyone ever noticed that our society has become a system of enslavement, preventing people from doing the things that they would normally do due to fears of repercussions? Mankind as a whole has come through the millenia and brought upon itself a series of structures and laws that serve only to prevent people from living the lives that they would truly like to live. The sacrifice of absolute freedom in exchange for a sense of protection given by regulations and processes that control people through fear. Mankind has become lazy and content with it's mundane existence and continues to live in a system of fear that it has developed for itself. Whatever happened to truly living your life without care or obligation? To taking what you need without fear of reprimand or consequence?

One would argue that life itself is governed by universal laws and the laws of nature. This is true and one can not alter the ways of basic existence, but why do we let others decide what is appropriate for us? Why do people continue to follow these standards that they themselves do not agree with? The answer is fear. Fear of opinion, fear of punishment, and fear of being shunned upon. People let their image and well being control their passion. They have sacrificed their drive for life for "human progress" and advancement when the only things they have advanced are superficial objects and illusions that distract them from truly living a life that is free.

This world and all of it's corrupt organization should be destroyed and brought up anew. Take every last government, business, and organization and burn them to the ground. Take away the technology, science, art, and other menial advancements that people place so much pride upon and see the basic instincts of human nature take over. Revel in absolute freedom as your obligations and restrictions are done away with and life truly becomes a reality and this fascade that America claims it to be.

Where are the basic drives for life? Where is the passion, love, wanderlust, and curiousity that is truly what being human is all about? Gone. It's been driven away by those that would sacrifice their basic human desires for protection amongst the masses. I'd rather live in a world where the fittest survive and yet you hold no obligations other than basic survival and desires then sacrifice pure freedom for a false sense of protection. We're not protected, we're enslaved. Enslaved by fear and the laws of men whom we'll never see. For better or for worse, people need to be free of what they have been led to believe is life and experience was living really is.

Excuse my rambling, but this has been plaguing my mind since last night and I had to put something out despite it's lack of organization.

[Sammich]

WELL...IF I LIVED IN A WORLD WITHOUT ORDER I'D THINK ABOUT CHEATING MORE OFTEN. WHILE THAT MAY SEEM LIKE A MEANINGLESS POST, I STAND BY THIS STATEMENT

BUT, ORDER, IN THIS WORLD, KEEPS SOME THINGS AT BAY. SOME PEOPLE STILL DO THINGS AND DONT CARE ABOUT REPRUCUSSIONS, HENCE JAILS.

[Elbow]

lol :screwy: :screwy:

[Killer]

NWO FO LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


IT IS JUST TOOOOOOOOOO SWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTT!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sammich]

HEY RAN IS THIS A SERIOUS THREAD?

[Ran]

BUT, ORDER, IN THIS WORLD, KEEPS SOME THINGS AT BAY. SOME PEOPLE STILL DO THINGS AND DONT CARE ABOUT REPRUCUSSIONS, HENCE JAILS.Exactly, but who decides what is wrong or right? Who gives these people the authority to enforce laws and regulations on other men? The people do. The people, afraid of having to protect themselves and take responsibility for own problems give these people power to enforce restrictions to prevent others from doing actions that they themselves do not deem appropriate. In one fashion or the other, we're all slaves to this system of favoritism and bigotry.


HEY RAN IS THIS A SERIOUS THREAD?Yes. I seriously got no sleep last night. It's bugging the shit out of me and has me on the verge of vomitting. My heart is racing, my mind is running a mile a minute, my body is restless, and my stomach feels like it's going to explode. I don't know why, but the contentment that people have found in sacrificing themselves to these world systems makes me sick. Nobody knows what living is anymore.

[Elbow]

Exactly, but who decides what is wrong or right? Who gives these people the authority to enforce laws and regulations on other men? The people do. The people, afraid of having to protect themselves and take responsibility for own problems give these people power to enforce restrictions to prevent others from doing actions that they themselves do not deem appropriate. In one fashion or the other, we're all slaves to this system of favoritism and bigotry.

:lmfao: IT'S CALLED HAVING CIVILIZATION. Go move out to no where land if you want to live like cave men.

[Sammich]

Exactly, but who decides what is wrong or right? Who gives these people the authority to enforce laws and regulations on other men? The people do. The people, afraid of having to protect themselves and take responsibility for own problems give these people power to enforce restrictions to prevent others from doing actions that they themselves do not deem appropriate. In one fashion or the other, we're all slaves to this system of favoritism and bigotry.

IN ACTUALITY, GOD GIVES AUTHORITY TO MEN (GOVERNMENT) TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS, OR MAYBE NOT GIVES AUTHORITY, BUT HE ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP THINGS IN ORDER...THE BEST WAY THEY CAN, SO IN ESSENCE THEY HAVE THE 'RIGHT' TO GOVERN PEOPLES LIVES. BUT FROM YOUR PROSPECT, PEOPLE GOVERNING PEOPLE, WHO ALL SCREW UP AND DO...WHATS NOT RIGHT.

[Ran]

:lmfao: IT'S CALLED HAVING CIVILIZATION. Go move out to no where land if you want to live like cave men.Civilization has become oppression. In form or the other, the organization of man's law and enforcement has done nothing but hold regulations that they themselves see fit and then bring them down onto others with no rightful claim. Your sense of civilization has done nothing but become the demise of humanity and basic instinct.

[Killer]

if everyone took only what they NEEDED then we wouldn't need rules/laws.... BUT humans are greedy... we WANT more than we need... that's where the problem is.

[Ran]

IN ACTUALITY, GOD GIVES AUTHORITY TO MEN (GOVERNMENT) TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS, OR MAYBE NOT GIVES AUTHORITY, BUT HE ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP THINGS IN ORDER...THE BEST WAY THEY CAN, SO IN ESSENCE THEY HAVE THE 'RIGHT' TO GOVERN PEOPLES LIVES. BUT FROM YOUR PROSPECT, PEOPLE GOVERNING PEOPLE, WHO ALL SCREW UP AND DO...WHATS NOT RIGHT.God is a construct developed by people that fear the unknown prospect of death. If God wishes to enforce the law, then let him do so himself. No man has the right regulate what is appropriate for another.


if everyone took only what they NEEDED then we wouldn't need rules/laws.... BUT humans are greedy... we WANT more than we need... that's where the problem is.Then take back. Absolute freedom makes your venerable, but also allows you to take action into your own hands. You life becomes your own.

[Killer]

wait wait wait..


rans right........................... i'd love to be able to rape his family and not worry about the repercussions.......

also i have this thing for killing pregnant women... man if i could only get by with that these days!!!

[The Ninja]

The strong rule the weak. Get used to it. Until you have power you will succumb to the superior. If you wish to lead a life without bounds, obtain more power than those who rule you. Its as simple as that, homie.

[The Ninja]

The strong determine what is good/bad, right/wrong, and acceptable/unacceptable. The weak are created to be ruled, and the strong exist to rule.

[Ran]

wait wait wait..


rans right........................... i'd love to be able to rape his family and not worry about the repercussions.......

also i have this thing for killing pregnant women... man if i could only get by with that these days!!!In a world where freedom is absolute you would have the right to pursue these interests, yet I would maintain the freedom to defend me and mine. Life becomes nothing more than a simple management of risk vs. reward without faceless politicians governing over you. Bare in mind that all men would be free to do as they please, not just one.

[Elbow]

wait wait wait..


rans right........................... i'd love to be able to rape his family and not worry about the repercussions.......

also i have this thing for killing pregnant women... man if i could only get by with that these days!!!

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

I mean really????? Have you sat down and THOUGHT about what you are saying Ran?

[Maniacc]

We live in a new age of slavery and we don't even know it.
Waking up going to work and do it all over again the next day for payments, bills, ect. We are not free to do what we want.

This has been obvious to me for quite some time now. When I talk to a lot of mexicans who are virgins in the united states always say the same thing; I thought this country would be a place of freedom where you can create your own future without any consequences - yet my life is not only harder but meaningless because day in and day out I'm a slave to the dollar bill.

[Ran]

The strong rule the weak. Get used to it. Until you have power you will succumb to the superior. If you wish to lead a life without bounds, obtain more power than those who rule you. Its as simple as that, homie.
The strong determine what is good/bad, right/wrong, and acceptable/unacceptable. The weak are created to be ruled, and the strong exist to rule.The strong only exist because we allow them to exist. Those that have power only have because fearful people have given it to them. These meaningless levels of heirarchy are yet another example of an unbalance of power that the sheep have given to those that would extort them.


I mean really????? Have you sat down and THOUGHT about what you are saying Ran?Yes.

[Elbow]

SO DON'T WORK A 9-5 LOL, DON'T HAVE A JOB LIKE THAT.

It's part of life, sure I am brainwashed I guess for saying that, but THAT IS HOW THE WORLD WORKS, THIS so called devil lifestyle is WHY we are the highest/smartest animals on Earth.

[PSINXS]

We live in a new age of slavery and we don't even know it.
Waking up going to work and do it all over again the next day for payments, bills, ect. We are not free to do what we want.

This has been obvious to me for quite some time now. When I talk to a lot of mexicans who are virgins in the united states always say the same thing; I thought this country would be a place of freedom where you can create your own future without any consequences - yet my life is not only harder but meaningless because day in and day out I'm a slave to the dollar bill.
Totally agree.

salvery never ended. we all are just slaves for different things now.

and i know some hispanics are here illegally, but screw that, the legal ones i feel bad for. They get treated like crap and its not fair. they seem to be stereotyped to do certain types of work.

[Sammich]

God is a construct developed by people that fear the unknown prospect of death. If God wishes to enforce the law, then let him do so himself. No man has the right regulate what is appropriate for another.

HMMMM

[4dmin]

everything we feel/do is based upon our western society influence. w/o order you have chaos; not that say chaos is bad, but order is needed to give masses something to believe in. religion is a prime example of enslavement.

dumb example but a good view of chaos would be watching the new batman - joker: a man w/o boundaries

“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law” - Aleister Crowley

[Elbow]

You know you don't HAVE to go to work, pay bills, etc.

[Ran]

THAT IS HOW THE WORLD WORKSConceding defeat is the way the majority of the population deals with life and it's sickening.


THIS so called devil lifestyle is WHY we are the highest/smartest animals on Earth.That's open to interpretation. Advances in science, medicine, and technology are meaningless if the basic prinicples of life are lost.

[The Ninja]

There will always be some form of hierarchy. Whether it be physical strength, the ability to rally crowds to one's beckoning, or an intelligence factor.

[Killer]

In a world where freedom is absolute you would have the right to pursue these interests, yet I would maintain the freedom to defend me and mine. Life becomes nothing more than a simple management of risk vs. reward without faceless politicians governing over you. Bare in mind that all men would be free to do as they please, not just one.

..... so you're telling me in a world without repercussion..

i'd have to worry about the repercussion????

c'mon man... laws are laws and rules are rules... they weren't just made up to hold people back.. they were made to help preserve life on this planet...

in your world.. if i stole a loaf of bread from you.. you could kill me.... these laws that are "holding you back" keep things just and fair.. and though there are times they fail us... for the most part they pull through.. i get punished for doing wrong.. but it's a fair punishment.. instead of death...

[Ran]

There will always be some form of hierarchy. Whether it be physical strength, the ability to rally crowds to one's beckoning, or an intelligence factor.Then challenge it. Take the risks if you deem it worth opposing. There is no need to have something forced down your throat if you don't like it.

[4dmin]

There will always be some form of hierarchy. Whether it be physical strength, the ability to rally crowds to one's beckoning, or an intelligence factor.

this is true and it is b/c human existence requires such. it is impossible for humans to function on any other plane - if we were asexual then lone wolf syndrome would be much easier to accomplish.

[The Ninja]

Sometimes you have to play by the rules of the game to win. Sometimes one gains satisfaction out of winning by another's rules. It shows a different kind of dominance.

[Ran]

..... so you're telling me in a world without repercussion..

i'd have to worry about the repercussion????I was waiting for this. The only repercussions you worry about are those that you place upon yourself. There are no laws in place aside from the laws of nature.


c'mon man... laws are laws and rules are rules... they weren't just made up to hold people back.. they were made to help preserve life on this planet...

in your world.. if i stole a loaf of bread from you.. you could kill me.... these laws that are "holding you back" keep things just and fair.. and though there are times they fail us... for the most part they pull through.. i get punished for doing wrong.. but it's a fair punishment.. instead of death...Man-made laws and rules are neither fair nor just by any means. I like you Killer, I really do, but you're a prime example of how people sacrifice freedom for protection. Who deemed what is wrong or right for you? Who placed the laws into action that govern how you can and can not live your life? Are you really content with abiding by another man's will and not taking the basic fruits of life? If you answer yes to that, then I can only feel sorry for you.

[4dmin]

i have a question for Ran? are you religious?

[Ran]

this is true and it is b/c human existence requires such. it is impossible for humans to function on any other plane - if we were asexual then lone wolf syndrome would be much easier to accomplish.Could you elaborate on this for me Paul?


i have a question for Ran? are you religious?I don't believe in a structured form of beliefs or the sanctity of the church if that's what you're asking. Do I believe that there is something unexplained outside of this physical existence? Yes.

[Elbow]

I feel free, and I do honestly understand what you are saying, but don't agree at all.

[The Ninja]

When I gain power, I will -make- others abide by my rules or they'll face death. Easy as that. Why? Because I'll have the power to do so, and because that is what I want to do.

[Ran]

I feel free, and I do honestly understand what you are saying, but don't agree at all.I respect your opinion and, I believe, that you openly expressing it is a prime example of what real freedom is. :cheers:

[Sammich]

I don't believe in a structured form of beliefs or the sanctity of the church if that's what you're asking. Do I believe that there is something unexplained outside of this physical existence? Yes.

that explains a heap

[4dmin]

Could you elaborate on this for me Paul?

an order or hierarchy establishment is only good when it is needed.... take humans what are the things we need to survive: air, food, water, reproduction...

air = isn't going anywhere
food/water = can be found/created
reproduction = ??? problem

if we were asexual it would be far easier to sustain a life w/o order.

[Ran]

that explains a heapReligion is like government. The only power it holds is that which you give it. That's my view anyway.

[Maniacc]

The reality of this is that everything is the result of pure organic freedom..

We've freely done this to ourselves.

[4dmin]

Could you elaborate on this for me Paul?

I don't believe in a structured form of beliefs or the sanctity of the church if that's what you're asking. Do I believe that there is something unexplained outside of this physical existence? Yes.

believing in anything greater than yourself already enslaves you ;)

i know this may sound funny but you should read the santanic bible by anton lavey it talks quite a bit about this stuff. aleister crowley is another good occult author w/ stuff on this topic

[Ran]

an order or hierarchy establishment is only good when it is needed.... take humans what are the things we need to survive: air, food, water, reproduction...

air = isn't going anywhere
food/water = can be found/created
reproduction = ??? problem

if we were asexual it would be far easier to sustain a life w/o order.I fail to see how being asexual has any bearing on the subject matter. I may not be making the connection somehow. The things you listed are all traditionally free to obtain and enjoy. Yet due to our constructed society, one must have money to get food, a job to make money, an education to get a job, and finances from family to get an education. It's a cycle that needs to be done away with.

[Ran]

believing in anything greater than yourself already enslaves you ;)

i know this may sound funny but you should read the santanic bible by anton lavey it talks quite a bit about this stuff. aleister crowley is another good occult auther w/ stuff on this topicI've actually read Anton Lavey and he's on my bookshelf.

Also, my beliefs in a higher existence hold no baring on how I live my life daily. I don't fear divine justice or punishment. I don't strive for the promise of heaven or reincarnation nor do I fear Hell or eternal solitude. I simply think that there is something beyond this existence. I do not believe that it holds any bearing on our physical lives though.

[Ran]

By the way, thanks to all that are contributing to the thread. Keep it coming.

[Maniacc]

Whatever happened to truly living your life without care or obligation? To taking what you need without fear of reprimand or consequence?

but why do we let others decide what is appropriate for us?

Where is the passion, love, wanderlust, and curiousity that is truly what being human is all about?

Because the fact is, 85% of the population has always been complacent, boring, mindless chimps, and all of those things existed mostly in pipe dreams and hyperbolized stories, and 100% of us are enslaved more to our psychological weaknesses than any organization.



I'd rather live in a world where the fittest survive and yet you hold no obligations other than basic survival and desires

Yeah, that'd be a nice place to live if most people could shed off our selfish, violent, batshit insane nature. Say goodbye to medical care, air conditioners, and the internet, and say hello to having 8 kids because you know 6 are gonna die, and so on.

[Ran]

Because the fact is, 85% of the population has always been complacent, boring, mindless chimps, and all of those things existed mostly in pipe dreams and hyperbolized stories, and 100% of us are enslaved more to our psychological weaknesses than any organization.Well put. How would you propose one overcome their psychological boundaries if even possible?


Yeah, that'd be a nice place to live if most people could shed off our selfish, violent, batshit insane nature. Say goodbye to medical care, air conditioners, and the internet, and say hello to having 8 kids because you know 6 are gonna die, and so on.You make sacrifices and take the good with the bad. Personally, I'd rather run the risk and be free. To hell with medical care, air conditioners, television, and the internet. If those are to be the sacrifices made then so be it. Mankind existed for millenia without the automobile or penicillin. It can continue to do so.

[Deke]

I think Ran is just trying to get assurance that age of consent is bullshit. It's like the Ryan Reynolds speech in "Waiting"


Haha, but seriously, I think the world would be horrible place without the structure that has developed. Sure I think that there is far too much government regulation (I generally have a pretty libertarian mindset in the respect), but to have no system of civilization would be chaotic and honestly stagnant.

It is definitely a trade-off between comfort and absolute freedom, but personally I like some level of comfort.

And as for who decides laws, I do think a great deal of them are arbitrary, but the basic ones are naturally instilled. Every major faith follows things like it's bad to kill and steal. You can even see this in observing a group of animals.

[Maniacc]

Well put. How would you propose one overcome their psychological boundaries if even possible?

This is a tricky question.
All I can say is that for me - being put in an environment that I'm not familier with could give me a better sense of appreciation. Maybe we all need to start over fresh and work our way up like our grandparents did.

Maybe then we'd be less dependent of our technology.

Here is another problem though. If we want to evolve and move further in life we need technology - science is an important key in us reaching that goal.



You make sacrifices and take the good with the bad. Personally, I'd rather run the risk and be free. To hell with medical care, air conditioners, television, and the internet. If those are to be the sacrifices made then so be it. Mankind existed for millenia without the automobile or penicillin. It can continue to do so.
Technology(especifically the internet) is one of the most important components to making a decentralised society sustainable. I would definitely not do away with that. Television is probably the top form of entertainment that needs to go because that is what is keeping us from lookin' at our problems the way they need to be looked at.

Television is our main problem - PERIOD. The younger generation starts off by watching tv, then they would rather stay in doors and play video games or watch tv instead of going out side and doing something productive. Which is why a lot of Americans are fat and lazy. We start in a young age.

[AirMax95]

Ran/Maniac: How do you live your lives now? Do you follow the current theories that you have spoken of in this thread?

IIRC, Paul said it, but we have structure to avoid chaos. Even with structure chaos is still possible, but to a much lesser extent. Sure we would all like to do as we please, but our human nature will not allow us to be completely civil. Yes, people do abuse the hierarchy/rules, but that further proves our need for such checks and balances.

Ran, you proposed wiping the earth of technology, health care, and etc. I strongly feel that IF we were to somehow remove all that is on this earth now, and pickup the sticks, we would kill each other off in a matter of years, or the mindset many people have now would run rampant and start the process over again.

I do however question the relationship of this topic to the notion that poverty and mental enlsavement causes violence and chaos.

Also: Religion plays a strong hand in peoples beliefs.

I will return to this in a moment....computer update and a trip to Mahdavi, lol.

[Deke]

Technology(especifically the internet) is one of the most important components to making a decentralised society sustainable. I would definitely not do away with that. Television is probably the top form of entertainment that needs to go because that is what is keeping us from lookin' at our problems the way they need to be looked at.

Television is our main problem - PERIOD. The younger generation starts off by watching tv, then they would rather stay in doors and play video games or watch tv instead of going out side and doing something productive. Which is why a lot of Americans are fat and lazy. We start in a young age.

The internet is nothing more than an interactive form of TV. They are both methods of spreading information among the masses. You just have more control over what is on your monitor than you do what is on your TV.

[Maniacc]

The internet is nothing more than an interactive form of TV. They are both methods of spreading information among the masses. You just have more control over what is on your monitor than you do what is on your TV.
Control on what we watch - bingo. We can control on whether we watch some bullshit news station that talks about false claims about our planet and everything going on in it or we can watch educational videos on important stuff like what really is going on.



Ran/Maniac: How do you live your lives now? Do you follow the current theories that you have spoken of in this thread?
I'm still a slave.
But an educated one. :D

[BKgen®]

you copied this shit from wikipedia.

[Ran]

Ran/Maniac: How do you live your lives now? Do you follow the current theories that you have spoken of in this thread?I am currently as much of a victim of the system as the rest of you. I'm merely expressing theory and philosophy to see what it lands. Perhaps a change is to be made.


IIRC, Paul said it, but we have structure to avoid chaos. Even with structure chaos is still possible, but to a much lesser extent. Sure we would all like to do as we please, but our human nature will not allow us to be completely civil. Yes, people do abuse the hierarchy/rules, but that further proves our need for such checks and balances.Structure does not eliminate chaos at all. It merely controls it through the enforcement of fear. Fear of punishment by one's peers and thus, the regulations set by one man to govern another. It isn't right. Civility is what you make of it and humanity by no means as distant from animals as it would like to make itself out to be.


Ran, you proposed wiping the earth of technology, health care, and etc. I strongly feel that IF we were to somehow remove all that is on this earth now, and pickup the sticks, we would kill each other off in a matter of years, or the mindset many people have now would run rampant and start the process over again.One can't say for sure until faced with the situation. I don't believe that humanity would eliminate itself, but I can forsee the restructuring of a society by those not wishing to do anything for themselves and have their meals delivered to them on a plate. These kinds of people are the very reason we are where we are. No drive, no passion, no determination. Only the sad wastefulness that desires their existence to be led for them.

[Deke]

Control on what we watch - bingo. We can control on whether we watch some bullshit news station that talks about false claims about our planet and everything going on in it or we can watch educational videos on important stuff like what really is going on.


But the fact of the matter is you still have control over what you watch on TV. Getting rid of TV and keeping the internet will change absolutely nothing. People choose to watch what they want on TV. Just as people choose to view whatever websites that want on the internet. There are valid and retarded programs on TV just as there are valid and retarded websites on the internet. It's up to the individual to decide how they want to spend their time.

[Ran]

you copied this shit from wikipedia.I copied nothing.


This is a tricky question.
All I can say is that for me - being put in an environment that I'm not familier with could give me a better sense of appreciation. Maybe we all need to start over fresh and work our way up like our grandparents did.

Maybe then we'd be less dependent of our technology.

Here is another problem though. If we want to evolve and move further in life we need technology - science is an important key in us reaching that goal.I support the annihilation of modern society and the complete rebirth of human existence. Perhaps being thrown into the threshhold would give people a recognition of life is meant to be.


Technology(especifically the internet) is one of the most important components to making a decentralised society sustainable. I would definitely not do away with that. Television is probably the top form of entertainment that needs to go because that is what is keeping us from lookin' at our problems the way they need to be looked at.

Television is our main problem - PERIOD. The younger generation starts off by watching tv, then they would rather stay in doors and play video games or watch tv instead of going out side and doing something productive. Which is why a lot of Americans are fat and lazy. We start in a young age.Technology itself is the problem. Entertainment and convenience rule the world and let people's lives fade away into obscurity. The more you look at it, you more you realize it.

[Maniacc]

But the fact of the matter is you still have control over what you watch on TV. Getting rid of TV and keeping the internet will change absolutely nothing. People choose to watch what they want on TV. Just as people choose to view whatever websites that want on the internet. There are valid and retarded programs on TV just as there are valid and retarded websites on the internet. It's up to the individual to decide how they want to spend their time.
Think about it this way, Deke.

If we were lived in a world where people knew the truth about everything! Panic would take over and people will be doing whatever they needed to survive. Over the years a lot of people would probably be dead. I would rather use the internet as a form of communication rather than watching TV in a couch.

Maybe a certain group of refugees have secret locations in which you could stay and be safe from who knows - how would you get those coordinates? ;)
Marinate on this for a min.

[BKgen®]

I still say you copied this shit from wikipedia.

[Deke]

Think about it this way, Deke.

If we were lived in a world where people knew the truth about everything! Panic would take over and people will be doing whatever they needed to survive. Over the years a lot of people would probably be dead. I would rather use the internet as a form of communication rather than watching TV in a couch.

Maybe a certain group of refugees have secret locations in which you could stay and be safe from who knows - how would you get those coordinates? ;)
Marinate on this for a min.

You mean groups of refugees as in societal systems that protect your existence by limiting certain freedoms? :)

I'm not sure I see the point in your example, or where you were going with that post at all.

Haha, I think we're getting off topic from what Ran had intended.

[Killer]

In a world where freedom is absolute you would have the right to pursue these interests, yet I would maintain the freedom to defend me and mine. Life becomes nothing more than a simple management of risk vs. reward without faceless politicians governing over you. Bare in mind that all men would be free to do as they please, not just one.

..... so you're telling me in a world without repercussion..

i'd have to worry about the repercussion????

c'mon man... laws are laws and rules are rules... they weren't just made up to hold people back.. they were made to help preserve life on this planet...

in your world.. if i stole a loaf of bread from you.. you could kill me.... these laws that are "holding you back" keep things just and fair.. and though there are times they fail us... for the most part they pull through.. i get punished for doing wrong.. but it's a fair punishment.. instead of death...



(sorry this is so late.. it glitched on me before i went to lunch..)

[Ran]

(sorry this is so late.. it glitched on me before i went to lunch..)You already made this post.

[Maniacc]

You mean groups of refugees as in societal systems that protect your existence by limiting certain freedoms? :)

I'm not sure I see the point in your example.

Haha, I think we're getting off topic from what Ran had intended.
Haha, let's say our planet is like that movie - 28 days later(I know it's a stupid example with zombies 'n shit but whatever lol). You survive and are trying to seek a place of safety.

In your home you have internet access - you go online and see if others have survived as well. You guys form a team and work together to reach this place. Blah blah you get the point LOL.

[Deke]

I support the annihilation of modern society and the complete rebirth of human existence. Perhaps being thrown into the threshhold would give people a recognition of life is meant to be.


Unless you lived your entire existence without any interaction from another human being, this is most improbable.

[Ran]

Unless you lived your entire existence without any interaction from another human being, this is most improbable.Improbably perhaps, but not impossible or any less needed.

[Killer]

You already made this post.


bull shit!!! gah i hate IA!!! when i tried to post it earlier it timed out on me... and i couldn't get back on.. so i just went to lunch!!!

sorry... i'll go back and re read the thread i guess!!!!

mother efin server!

[Deke]

Haha, let's say our planet is like that movie - 28 days later(I know it's a stupid example with zombies 'n shit but whatever lol). You survive and are trying to seek a place of safety.

In your home you have internet access - you go online and see if others have survived as well. You guys form a team and work together to reach this place. Blah blah you get the point LOL.

Ok, point made, yes the internet is more interactive. My point is that it can still cause as much laziness and wasted life as television. I feel like eliminating communication technology is an all or nothing approach. Otherwise, one form is just going to compensate for the other.

All that being said, I'm not advocating eliminating any of it because I think the free flow of information that we have today is one of societies great achievements.

[BKgen®]

From what i'm seeing, a lot of people in this thread just didn't make the effort to pursue a career they'd be happy with in the long run... and are now complaining about how their dead end 9-5 job sucks -- so... that's the government's fault? The great thing about living in the US is that if you have the willpower/drive/etc, you can do and be whatever the fuck you want to.

Don't blame it on anyone else but yourself.

And if you have a problem accepting the fact that you'll have superiors in life .... lol, sucks for you. That's life. Just like it was 20 years ago. If you're getting paid to do what you love, you'll get over petty bullshit like that -- I promise. If not, then I guess you're doomed to spend the rest of your life sitting in a cubicle feeling bitter.

[Ran]

I feel like eliminating communication technology is an all or nothing approach. Otherwise, one form is just going to compensate for the other.I agree.

[Killer]

I was waiting for this. The only repercussions you worry about are those that you place upon yourself. There are no laws in place aside from the laws of nature.
same thing now........ yeah there are laws you must abide by... but for the most part.. if you "do right" and are a good person... you're going to avoid the repercussions and sew seeds of good into your life instead of bad ones...



Man-made laws and rules are neither fair nor just by any means. I like you Killer, I really do, but you're a prime example of how people sacrifice freedom for protection. Who deemed what is wrong or right for you? Who placed the laws into action that govern how you can and can not live your life? Are you really content with abiding by another man's will and not taking the basic fruits of life? If you answer yes to that, then I can only feel sorry for you.

ONE man did not make the rules/laws we live by... that's why it's fair... minds much greater than yours or mine made these rules/laws... it's not one guy on top of a hill using us as pawns in his little game of chess... groups of men.. and now even women.. get together and decide what's best for the GREATER good..... and YES i am pretty content with abiding by these man made rules... one, because i'm a christian.. and a good chunk of them come from the bible... and two because it keeps me/my family/my friends safe... for the most part.. at least safe from your everyday law abiding citizens.. which so far at least seems to outweigh the number of people who are discontent and break the law anyway...

[Deke]

Improbably perhaps, but not impossible or any less needed.

Improbable in that it goes against all laws of nature. Humans are social beings, if they were not, we wouldn't be in existence right now. Anytime a group of people get together, a hierarchy forms. Any time a group of mammals get together a hierarchy forms.

Honestly, I do think a clean slate might be good for the human race, but the world we live in today didn't just occur by chance. One caveman didn't just all of a sudden decide, hey I think I'm going to start leading the world in a direction of society. It was human nature to form what we have today. And if we were to start a clean slate, eventually, we would once again be back in the same place we are today. Maybe things would be better. I'd hope that people would remember the mistake of the past. But living as a civilized society is not one of them, at least not for the vast majority of the human race.

[Maniacc]

From what i'm seeing, a lot of people in this thread just didn't make the effort to pursue a career they'd be happy with in the long run... and are now complaining about how their dead end 9-5 job sucks -- so... that's the government's fault? The great thing about living in the US is that if you have the willpower/drive/etc, you can do and be whatever the fuck you want to.

Don't blame it on anyone else but yourself.

And if you have a problem accepting the fact that you'll have superiors in life .... lol, sucks for you. That's life. Just like it was 20 years ago. If you're getting paid to do what you love, you'll get over petty bullshit like that -- I promise. If not, then I guess you're doomed to spend the rest of your life sitting in a cubicle feeling bitter.
This retard actually has a point when you think about it - I know I know, crazy huh? We live in the only country where you can essentially do whatever the fuck you want.
So do it and stop complaining or fix whatever it is that is bothering you.

Posting on a board full of porn, riced out cars, and useless drama isnt helping me or anyone else. But it is fun to talk about it so with that - let's keep this going. Unless some of you run out of brain juice.



Ok, point made, yes the internet is more interactive. My point is that it can still cause as much laziness and wasted life as television. I feel like eliminating communication technology is an all or nothing approach. Otherwise, one form is just going to compensate for the other.

All that being said, I'm not advocating eliminating any of it because I think the free flow of information that we have today is one of societies great achievements.
Meh, I guess. :D

[BKgen®]

This retard actually has a point when you think about it.


thanks alex ... i think :lmfao:

[Ran]

From what i'm seeing, a lot of people in this thread just didn't make the effort to pursue a career they'd be happy with in the long run... and are now complaining about how their dead end 9-5 job sucks -- so... that's the government's fault? The great thing about living in the US is that if you have the willpower/drive/etc, you can do and be whatever the fuck you want to.

Don't blame it on anyone else but yourself.

And if you have a problem accepting the fact that you'll have superiors in life .... lol, sucks for you. That's life. Just like it was 20 years ago. If you're getting paid to do what you love, you'll get over petty bullshit like that -- I promise. If not, then I guess you're doomed to spend the rest of your life sitting in a cubicle feeling bitter.You've gotten a bit off topic here by basing your post on assumptions. While I agree that people need to take personal responsibility for their own decisions, I don't see the relevance to the subject matter.

[xlivingfor1x]

this is something that i have thought about and racked my brain about for the last 3 years. i hate feeling that i am subjected to one set path for my life. ex. highschool, college, career, pay taxes, family, hopefully retire at a reasonable age, die. why am i taught that i do not have a choice, why am i taught that if i dont follow this set plan for americans, then i am "irresponsible"? why can i not choose weather i want to move around to places where i know nothing about it and test myself as a human being, as a creation of the creator, as a man?

why am i defined by what i do or my financial status? why cant it be about who i am and what i did with my life while i was stuck here? i hate to do it, but a movie quote comes to my mind and its from one of my favorite movies, braveheart. its right after william wallace has been betrayed by the nobles and he is at his sentencing. he is charged with treason to the king and wallace replies "never in my life have i sworn allegiance to him." and the reply was, "it matters not, he is your king"...i understand that americans are not subjected to such things as rape and murder from the government and government officials, but i can help but feel that we have no choice but follow the rules set for us by our government just because we were born here. i mean if i chose to leave the country now because i did not like the way things were, i could not do this without the proper documents and identification. i can hop the border and go to mexico or canada but those are my choices. why am i limited to so very little?

now i cant say that i have all the answers or even some of them. i cant say that i am following the path that i am completly confident is the path i have chosen. i still feel like i am playing by the rules and covering my ass until i can get out of this "enslavement" whether i come back or not is another story.(hence the reason i am going to europe next summer)

in spite of all this, i cannot deny that these rules and regulations are set forth for the common good of everyone. government officials set these regulations, but these officials did not self proclaim their position. there were voted for by the people. if we dont like it, then we need to vote. vote for representatives that can make changes for the world that you want to live in. if you dont see them, run yourself. its not an impossible goal. obama has made history by being elected (although i did not vote for him and hate the feeling that he was elected TO make history) and if that isnt an accomplishment, then i dont know what is.

no one has excuses anymore for not living the life they want to live, not white, black, brown, "khaki, whatever that color is." im sure there is opression still, but people have to stop blaming everyone else for what has happened to them. be a man, grow a pair and overcome it. maybe the things you do to get what you want arents so clean. maybe you have to follow all the rules to get out(like me) but you have every bit of control of getting what you want.

thats me 2 cents

[4dmin]

the only way to eliminate enslavement is to do away w/ the establishments that control you and cut the ties that bind you.

by nature we need people to sustain the human race. this requires us to communicate with others and build connections/establishments. this is why i was saying that if we as humans were asexual then we wouldn't be bound to such. the reason being you can go your entire life w/o ever needing another individual.

[Killer]

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !

[Ran]

same thing now........ yeah there are laws you must abide by... but for the most part.. if you "do right" and are a good person... you're going to avoid the repercussions and sew seeds of good into your life instead of bad ones...The laws of existence are by far not on the same level as the superficial laws placed by man. Also, I don't follow with the "sew seeds of good" metaphor.


ONE man did not make the rules/laws we live by... that's why it's fair... minds much greater than yours or mine made these rules/laws... it's not one guy on top of a hill using us as pawns in his little game of chess... groups of men.. and now even women.. get together and decide what's best for the GREATER good..... and YES i am pretty content with abiding by these man made rules... one, because i'm a christian.. and a good chunk of them come from the bible... and two because it keeps me/my family/my friends safe... for the most part.. at least safe from your everyday law abiding citizens.. which so far at least seems to outweigh the number of people who are discontent and break the law anyway...If your friends and family can't keep themselves safe than that is their own problem. Why should there be laws governing my actions if they do not necessarily agree with your own? You are free to believe and live by any set standards that you see fit. I do not, however, find the premise of a governing body making mandatory regulations for everyone to be agreeable. A man should have the right to decide for himself what is right or wrong.


Improbable in that it goes against all laws of nature. Humans are social beings, if they were not, we wouldn't be in existence right now. Anytime a group of people get together, a hierarchy forms. Any time a group of mammals get together a hierarchy forms.

Honestly, I do think a clean slate might be good for the human race, but the world we live in today didn't just occur by chance. One caveman didn't just all of a sudden decide, hey I think I'm going to start leading the world in a direction of society. It was human nature to form what we have today. And if we were to start a clean slate, eventually, we would once again be back in the same place we are today. Maybe things would be better. I'd hope that people would remember the mistake of the past. But living as a civilized society is not one of them, at least not for the vast majority of the human race.This current standard of living isn't human nature and hasn't been for a long time. It's merely conceding to the standards set forth by others. No, things did not happen over night. It takes time to create something such as this. That does not necessarily make it a good thing. A clean slate is exactly what we need. The question is, how does one destroy the world?

[Maniacc]

this is something that i have thought about and racked my brain about for the last 3 years. i hate feeling that i am subjected to one set path for my life. ex. highschool, college, career, pay taxes, family, hopefully retire at a reasonable age, die. why am i taught that i do not have a choice, why am i taught that if i dont follow this set plan for americans, then i am "irresponsible"? why can i not choose weather i want to move around to places where i know nothing about it and test myself as a human being, as a creation of the creator, as a man?

why am i defined by what i do or my financial status? why cant it be about who i am and what i did with my life while i was stuck here? i hate to do it, but a movie quote comes to my mind and its from one of my favorite movies, braveheart. its right after william wallace has been betrayed by the nobles and he is at his sentencing. he is charged with treason to the king and wallace replies "never in my life have i sworn allegiance to him." and the reply was, "it matters not, he is your king"...i understand that americans are not subjected to such things as rape and murder from the government and government officials, but i can help but feel that we have no choice but follow the rules set for us by our government just because we were born here. i mean if i chose to leave the country now because i did not like the way things were, i could not do this without the proper documents and identification. i can hop the border and go to mexico or canada but those are my choices. why am i limited to so very little?

now i cant say that i have all the answers or even some of them. i cant say that i am following the path that i am completly confident is the path i have chosen. i still feel like i am playing by the rules and covering my ass until i can get out of this "enslavement" whether i come back or not is another story.(hence the reason i am going to europe next summer)

in spite of all this, i cannot deny that these rules and regulations are set forth for the common good of everyone. government officials set these regulations, but these officials did not self proclaim their position. there were voted for by the people. if we dont like it, then we need to vote. vote for representatives that can make changes for the world that you want to live in. if you dont see them, run yourself. its not an impossible goal. obama has made history by being elected (although i did not vote for him and hate the feeling that he was elected TO make history) and if that isnt an accomplishment, then i dont know what is.

no one has excuses anymore for not living the life they want to live, not white, black, brown, "khaki, whatever that color is." im sure there is opression still, but people have to stop blaming everyone else for what has happened to them. be a man, grow a pair and overcome it. maybe the things you do to get what you want arents so clean. maybe you have to follow all the rules to get out(like me) but you have every bit of control of getting what you want.

thats me 2 cents
Vote libertarian next time.

[BKgen®]

You've gotten a bit off topic here by basing your post on assumptions. While I agree that people need to take personal responsibility for their own decisions, I don't see the relevance to the subject matter.

I'm just saying... you probably wouldn't have such a glum outlook on life if you were happy with your current situation. Life's too short to have a constantly shitty outlook on life. Yes, sometimes it may seem like there are a few corrupt douchebags sitting at the top dropping water balloons full of piss on everyone... but life isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Just be thankful that you don't have to live in Africa with the daily fear that some guy is gonna chop your head off and rape your family.

[Ran]

This retard actually has a point when you think about it - I know I know, crazy huh? We live in the only country where you can essentially do whatever the fuck you want.
So do it and stop complaining or fix whatever it is that is bothering you.Working on it.


Posting on a board full of porn, riced out cars, and useless drama isnt helping me or anyone else. But it is fun to talk about it so with that - let's keep this going. Unless some of you run out of brain juice.Posting on a car forum is by far one of the least effective ways to get a point across, but I frequent here and figured I could get some decent replies for the subject. I'm glad that I was right.


the only way to eliminate enslavement is to do away w/ the establishments that control you and cut the ties that bind you.

by nature we need people to sustain the human race. this requires us to communicate with others and build connections/establishments. this is why i was saying that if we as humans were asexual then we wouldn't be bound to such. the reason being you can go your entire life w/o ever needing another individual.Okay, I see what you mean. Now that I catch your meaning, I agree.

[Maniacc]

See now I think I see why Ran made this thread and why he thinks everyone is a slave 'n shit. He thinks life should be like anime - We are NEVER, and I repeat NEVER going to have a Star Trek World, Ran, unless you want to euthanize half of the worlds' population and get rid of the lazy, evil, greedy, selfish fucks.

[Deke]

This current standard of living isn't human nature and hasn't been for a long time. It's merely conceding to the standards set forth by others. No, things did not happen over night. It takes time to create something such as this. That does not necessarily make it a good thing. A clean slate is exactly what we need. The question is, how does one destroy the world?

Even so, you will never be able to live in a world of no consequence. Just like Paul said, humans need humans to survive (as a race). As long as there is that interaction, you will never be completely "free."

[Ran]

See now I think I see why Ran made this thread and why he thinks everyone is a slave 'n shit. He thinks life should be like anime - We are NEVER, and I repeat NEVER going to have a Star Trek World, Ran, unless you want to euthanize half of the worlds' population and get rid of the lazy, evil, greedy, selfish fucks.You started off in this topic so well. Please don't trash it now.

[Maniacc]

Working on it. x2 yo!

Posting on a car forum is by far one of the least effective ways to get a point across, but I frequent here and figured I could get some decent replies for the subject. I'm glad that I was right. x2 yo!
X2 yo.



You started off in this topic so well. Please don't trash it now.
:( Fiiiiiine!

[4dmin]

I think the true question here isn't how/why, but what... WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENT IF THEIR WASN'T SUCH ESTABLISHMENTS OR TIES TO BIND YOU? WHAT IF... YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES, WEREN'T MARRIED, DIDN'T HAVE KIDS, KNEW THERE WASN'T A HEAVEN/HELL, NO GODS, NO MASTERS, ETC.

[Ran]

I think the true question here isn't how/why, but what... WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENT IF THEIR WASN'T SUCH ESTABLISHMENTS OR TIES TO BIND YOU? WHAT IF... YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES, WEREN'T MARRIED, DIDN'T HAVE KIDS, KNEW THERE WASN'T A HEAVEN/HELL, NO GODS, NO MASTERS, ETC.Whatever I wanted to at any given time. It's a rather vague question.

[Killer]

The laws of existence are by far not on the same level as the superficial laws placed by man. Also, I don't follow with the "sew seeds of good" metaphor.

the metaphor being you reap what you sew..... good or bad... what goes around comes around... (yeah now that song is in my head too)... some people believe in karma.. some don't.. the way i'm relating it to this topic is... in your world... if i decided for myself what was good or bad being raised the way i was.. i would still not just take from others.. i wouldn't kill unjustly.. i would still be a good natured person.. and would most likely do fine for myself... i'd sew good seeds... and i'd reap what i sewed.... if i had sewn bad seeds.. killing/thieving/raping... well i'd be willing to bet someone would be pissed off at me.. and be prolly trying to kill me themselves....

just like in todays society.. if you do well by others and don't break rules.. you don't get in trouble...

but if you're "bad"... then you get punished for it...



If your friends and family can't keep themselves safe than that is their own problem. Why should there be laws governing my actions if they do not necessarily agree with your own? You are free to believe and live by any set standards that you see fit. I do not, however, find the premise of a governing body making mandatory regulations for everyone to be agreeable. A man should have the right to decide for himself what is right or wrong.


going back to what i said earlier... the rules in place are to preserve life on this planet.. be it ours or the animals we share it with..... and i think you're getting too personal on this... it's not what laws i want to make against what you feel is or isn't right... getting that from this statement "Why should there be laws governing my actions if they do not necessarily agree with your own?" again it's a group effort to get these laws... it's not one man vs another..

if 10 out of 9 people feel it's wrong to do something... well.. most likely it's wrong... ya know?? based on our "gut/human instinct"

[4dmin]

Whatever I wanted to at any given time. It's a rather vague question.

that is obvious - but what would you do right now! you wouldn't make a thread and people wouldn't agree unless they saw things in their life they don't like or that they want to change.

100% freedom is like winning the lotto in my eyes - what would you change today w/ such freedom?

[The Ninja]

Well put. How would you propose one overcome their psychological boundaries if even possible?

You make sacrifices and take the good with the bad. Personally, I'd rather run the risk and be free. To hell with medical care, air conditioners, television, and the internet. If those are to be the sacrifices made then so be it. Mankind existed for millenia without the automobile or penicillin. It can continue to do so.

After having been exposed to the internet, I'm addicted to it and I have withdrawals if I have to go without.

[Killer]

that is obvious - but what would you do right now! you wouldn't make a thread and people wouldn't agree unless they saw things in their life they don't like or that they want to change.

100% freedom is like winning the lotto in my eyes - what would you change today w/ such freedom?

i'd steal IA........... muahahahahah!!!!

[Ran]

the metaphor being you reap what you sew..... good or bad... what goes around comes around... (yeah now that song is in my head too)... some people believe in karma.. some don't.. the way i'm relating it to this topic is... in your world... if i decided for myself what was good or bad being raised the way i was.. i would still not just take from others.. i wouldn't kill unjustly.. i would still be a good natured person.. and would most likely do fine for myself... i'd sew good seeds... and i'd reap what i sewed.... if i had sewn bad seeds.. killing/thieving/raping... well i'd be willing to bet someone would be pissed off at me.. and be prolly trying to kill me themselves....

just like in todays society.. if you do well by others and don't break rules.. you don't get in trouble...

but if you're "bad"... then you get punished for it...I feel that it should be your own decision to do what you deem fit as right or wrong. I'm not going to enforce onto you my morals or code of ethics, but I would expect the same respect in return. You have the freedom to do so or not. That's the beauty of it. Live by your own standards and by what you deem is just. If you believe that God will punish you for being bad, then live accordingly to what you believe. You simply have no right to tell others that they're wrong. This goes for all things, not just religion.


if 10 out of 9 people feel it's wrong to do something... well.. most likely it's wrong... ya know?? based on our "gut/human instinct"No. If 9 people feel that it is wrong then it is wrong for those 9 people. If that 1 does not feel it is wrong, then it's not. Not for him anyway. This is not a case of majority rule.

[Ran]

that is obvious - but what would you do right now! you wouldn't make a thread and people wouldn't agree unless they saw things in their life they don't like or that they want to change.

100% freedom is like winning the lotto in my eyes - what would you change today w/ such freedom?I follow you now. Though the question is difficult to answer without being faced with the situation. I would wander the world aimlessly perhaps. Who knows? I've never been completely free so I can't adequately answer your question.

[xlivingfor1x]

i agree that the strong will lead the weak. and i do believe that it is human nature to look for answers, and if you dont find them within, then you look to the person that you feel has them.

i think that if establishment waa destroyed and we were set back hundreds of years. and we were all a bunch of naked native amaericans running around, we would still use our human instinct, vote on a leader, follow this leader, create some kind of board of officials and continue to evolve from there.

not because the strong lead the weak, this can go one of two ways. the strongest controls the weak and he can create rules and regulations that benefit the common good of everyone, or they can create rules and regulations that benefit them and them alone.

example of strong leading the weak for good: US gov is in theory, for the people. (noted that everyone makes mistakes.)
example of strong leading the weak gone wrong: monarchies or governments that set forth laws that people are required to provide leaders with possesions and position.

by choosing to disband the goverment, you are setting us back thousands of years and attempting to stray away from human nature. you take the risk of allowing the evil take over and create something much much worse.

[4dmin]

I follow you now. Though the question is difficult to answer without being faced with the situation. I would wander the world aimlessly perhaps. Who knows? I've never been completely free so I can't adequately answer your question.

see this brings up another point - enslavement creates direction/focus and creates needs/wants.

[Ran]

i agree that the strong will lead the weak. and i do believe that it is human nature to look for answers, and if you dont find them within, then you look to the person that you feel has them.

i think that if establishment waa destroyed and we were set back hundreds of years. and we were all a bunch of naked native amaericans running around, we would still use our human instinct, vote on a leader, follow this leader, create some kind of board of officials and continue to evolve from there.

not because the strong lead the weak, this can go one of two ways. the strongest controls the weak and he can create rules and regulations that benefit the common good of everyone, or they can create rules and regulations that benefit them and them alone.Human faults at their finest hmm?


example of strong leading the weak for good: US gov is in theory, for the people. (noted that everyone makes mistakes.)
example of strong leading the weak gone wrong: monarchies or governments that set forth laws that people are required to provide leaders with possesions and position.If you think the US Government acts on behalf of the people then you're out of your mind.


by choosing to disband the goverment, you are setting us back thousands of years and attempting to stray away from human nature. you take the risk of allowing the evil take over and create something much much worse.It's a risk worth taking in my opinion. Also, how would giving humanity a clean slate be setting anything back? Setting what back? These materialistic and superficial distractions? No loss there.


see this brings up another point - enslavement creates direction/focus and creates needs/wants.I disagree. Basic nature creates focus and needs/wants. I'd rather be enslaved to my own basic drives then to the authority of others.

[xlivingfor1x]

No. If 9 people feel that it is wrong then it is wrong for those 9 people. If that 1 does not feel it is wrong, then it's not. Not for him anyway.

fine you alone choose to commit murder because you feel that it is your right because you do not have to follow majority rule. thats fine and dandy. but it goes both ways. the government will then choose to use their rights (as you have described) and take you into custody by force, strap you down in a chair, and flip the switch and watch you die.

thes is using your theory of freedom

[SampaGuy]

You cant blame society for the situation you are in right now. You are there because of choices you made. There are definitely people out there living life to the fullest, and no theyre not all rich. You can only be enslaved by the system if you let it.

You should go on your Japan trip or something.

[4dmin]

You cant blame society for the situation you are in right now. You are there because of choices you made. There are definitely people out there living life to the fullest, and no theyre not all rich. You can only be enslaved by the system if you let it.

You should go on your Japan trip or something.

technically everyone is born into slavery - it would be different if you were born and left to fend for yourself like many animals; instead you are molded into what your environment is.

[Killer]

I feel that it should be your own decision to do what you deem fit as right or wrong. I'm not going to enforce onto you my morals or code of ethics, but I would expect the same respect in return. You have the freedom to do so or not. That's the beauty of it. Live by your own standards and by what you deem is just. If you believe that God will punish you for being bad, then live accordingly to what you believe. You simply have no right to tell others that they're wrong. This goes for all things, not just religion.


actually... in your world.. i have every right to tell you you're wrong... then kill you for saying otherwise...


whore...

lol...






great thread ran.. honestly... i'd stick around but i gotta do some work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PEACE!

[Maniacc]

I'm actually pretty impressed by Pauls' posts ITT.

[4dmin]

I'm actually pretty impressed by Pauls' posts ITT.

explain? did you think i was ultra conservative?

[xlivingfor1x]

Human faults at their finest hmm?

explain.


If you think the US Government acts on behalf of the people then you're out of your mind.

(noted that everyone makes mistakes.) how does it not act on behalf of the people if they were voted for by the people as representatives??? if you have we have voted for someone who has failed our high hopes, then thats our fault.


It's a risk worth taking in my opinion. Also, how would giving humanity a clean slate be setting anything back? Setting what back? These materialistic and superficial distractions? No loss there.

well thats fine, according to your theory, you have every right to disband the government, but they have every right to fight back

[Ran]

fine you alone choose to commit murder because you feel that it is your right because you do not have to follow majority rule. thats fine and dandy. but it goes both ways. the government will then choose to use their rights (as you have described) and take you into custody by force, strap you down in a chair, and flip the switch and watch you die.

thes is using your theory of freedomGood counter argument and it's fears of such repercussions that keep many and myself from doing such acts. I simply do not agree in the majority rule premise and it's one of the reasons behind this thread. Nice job. :goodjob:


You should go on your Japan trip or something.While the trip was initially a seperate case, it has begun to cross my mind again.


actually... in your world.. i have every right to tell you you're wrong... then kill you for saying otherwise...Exactly. Turn about is fair play and I'm willing to accept that.


great thread ran.. honestly... i'd stick around but i gotta do some work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PEACE!Do what you feel you need to do man. Thanks for the replies. :cheers:

[xlivingfor1x]

great thread ran.. honestly...

i agree. i have really enjoyed this debate

[Maniacc]

explain? did you think i was ultra conservative?
Not at all. I know that you're not religious and that you are a Obama supporter - but just the fact that a lot of your posts in here are pretty interesting makes me believe that you're not as dumb as I first thought you were. lol

[xlivingfor1x]

Good counter argument and it's fears of such repercussions that keep many and myself from doing such acts. I simply do not agree in the majority rule premise and it's one of the reasons behind this thread. Nice job. :goodjob:

please dont get me wrong. i really like your theory. i would just want it to be for good, and not until a new government is formed. which i am afraid is innevitable. if you read my first post, i struggle so much with hating the way things are but all i can do is look to myself to change the outcome.

good stuff though

[Ran]

explainEveryone wants to be led. There is no drive to live anymore. Just the persuit of simple content. I can't help but feel that this is a very sad world we're in.


(noted that everyone makes mistakes.) how does it not act on behalf of the people if they were voted for by the people as representatives??? if you have we have voted for someone who has failed our high hopes, then thats our fault.Again, you're focusing on the majority rule factor. I do not agree with that. I believe in personal resolve. What 3/5 people vote to pass should not govern what the other 2/5 must do. These impressions of republics or democracies are laughable at best. You may argue that they're the best humanity has to offer. I laugh at humanities "best".


well thats fine, according to your theory, you have every right to disband the government, but they have every right to fight backI won't contest that. I simply wish there more that shared the same drive.

[4dmin]

Not at all. I know that you're not religious and that you are a Obama supporter - but just the fact that a lot of your posts in here are pretty interesting makes me believe that you're not as dumb as I first thought you were. lol

Thanx :thinking::lmfao:

[BKgen®]

technically everyone is born into slavery - it would be different if you were born and left to fend for yourself like many animals; instead you are molded into what your environment is.

Depends on your definition of slavery. I wouldn't call that slavery... I'd call it conditioning. That has nothing to do with anyone having power over you...

[Ran]

please dont get me wrong. i really like your theory. i would just want it to be for good, and not until a new government is formed. which i am afraid is innevitable. if you read my first post, i struggle so much with hating the way things are but all i can do is look to myself to change the outcome.I reluctantly agree with you on the innevitable outcome. People are lazi and undriven. They seek only that which they want to get it with the least amount of work. By conceding to this, they let other run their lives for them in persuit of a more leisurely lifestyle. It's a sickening sacrifice.

[xlivingfor1x]

Everyone wants to be led. There is no drive to live anymore. Just the persuit of simple content. I can't help but feel that this is a very sad world we're in.

i agree 100%.

i dont want to just exist anymore. i want to really LIVE

[BKgen®]

People are lazi and undriven. They seek only that which they want to get it with the least amount of work. By conceding to this, they let other run their lives for them in persuit of a more leisurely lifestyle. It's a sickening sacrifice.

I wouldn't go throwing mass generalizations like that around... I know that's what it seems like from your point of view, but realize that you live in Georgia. Georgia isn't the best place to draw conclusions about our society as a whole...

[Ran]

I wouldn't go throwing mass generalizations like that around... I know that's what it seems like from your point of view, but realize that you live in Georgia. Georgia isn't the best place to draw conclusions about our society as a whole...I can only call it how I see it.

[xlivingfor1x]

I can only call it how I see it.

hrmm... how do mass generalizations compare to majority rule...

:thinking:

[4dmin]

Depends on your definition of slavery. I wouldn't call that slavery... I'd call it conditioning. That has nothing to do with anyone having power over you...conditioning is a form of slavery though

[Ran]

hrmm... how do mass generalizations compare to majority rule...

:thinking:I don't force my opinion onto anyone. If you agree then you do, if you don't then you don't.

[BKgen®]

conditioning is a form of slavery though

If you can call adaptation "slavery".

[xlivingfor1x]

I don't force my opinion onto anyone. If you agree then you do, if you don't then you don't.

i guess this really goes on about how everyone can believe in and do what they want. so i dont have to agree with your theory at all. i can stick with my majority rule if i want to, because that is my freedom. right?

[xlivingfor1x]

conditioning is a form of slavery though

honestly, i have no idea what your talking about. what are you really trying to say, lets drop the one liners, take your time, think about it and write exactly what you feel

[4dmin]

If you can call adaptation "slavery".

wouldn't adaptation mean you are taking your chosen path on your given surroundings?

like a baby sea turtle... mother drops egg, you hatch on land, you must find ocean to live... that is adaptation in my mind. conditioning would mean mother sticks around and shows you how/what/why.

[Ran]

i guess this really goes on about how everyone can believe in and do what they want. so i dont have to agree with your theory at all. i can stick with my majority rule if i want to, because that is my freedom. right?Exactly. Do what you want with who you want, just don't force me, or any others that disagree with you, to do the same.

[xlivingfor1x]

Exactly. Do what you want with who you want, just don't force me to do the same.

so how do we achieve this? in reality, are we already no living this theory that you have? i mean you can do whatever you want and no one can force it on you, its up to you whether you follow the majority. but everyone else still has the freedom to follow it if they like and elected officials still have the right to push you around whether you feel the are right or wrong?

my brain is starting to hurt. ha

[Ran]

so how do we achieve this? in reality, are we already no living this theory that you have? i mean you can do whatever you want and no one can force it on you, its up to you whether you follow the majority. but everyone else still has the freedom to follow it if they like and elected officials still have the right to push you around whether you feel the are right or wrong?Things have evolved much further than the basic premise that I gave you. While we are still capable of making our futures out to what we want them to be (to some degree), we are still bound by the laws, processes, and regulations set upon us by others. I've trouble finding a descent place to run to.


my brain is starting to hurt. haDon't worry, it's a good thing in this instance. :goodjob:

[xlivingfor1x]

While we are still capable of making our futures out to what we want them to be (to some degree), we are still bound by the laws, processes, and regulations set upon us by others. I've trouble finding a descent place to run to.

i posted this earlier:

"this is something that i have thought about and racked my brain about for the last 3 years. i hate feeling that i am subjected to one set path for my life. ex. highschool, college, career, pay taxes, family, hopefully retire at a reasonable age, die. why am i taught that i do not have a choice, why am i taught that if i dont follow this set plan for americans, then i am "irresponsible"? why can i not choose weather i want to move around to places where i know nothing about it and test myself as a human being, as a creation of the creator, as a man?

why am i defined by what i do or my financial status? why cant it be about who i am and what i did with my life while i was stuck here? i hate to do it, but a movie quote comes to my mind and its from one of my favorite movies, braveheart. its right after william wallace has been betrayed by the nobles and he is at his sentencing. he is charged with treason to the king and wallace replies "never in my life have i sworn allegiance to him." and the reply was, "it matters not, he is your king"...i understand that americans are not subjected to such things as rape and murder from the government and government officials, but i can help but feel that we have no choice but follow the rules set for us by our government just because we were born here. i mean if i chose to leave the country now because i did not like the way things were, i could not do this without the proper documents and identification. i can hop the border and go to mexico or canada but those are my choices. why am i limited to so very little?

i still feel like i am playing by the rules and covering my ass until i can get out of this "enslavement" whether i come back or not is another story.(hence the reason i am going to europe next summer)

no one has excuses anymore for not living the life they want to live, not white, black, brown, "khaki, whatever that color is." im sure there is opression still, but people have to stop blaming everyone else for what has happened to them. be a man, grow a pair and overcome it. maybe the things you do to get what you want arents so clean. maybe you have to follow all the rules to get out(like me) but you have every bit of control of getting what you want."



i share your same frustration

[Ran]

This has turned out to be a much better thread than I anticipated and it's really helped me settle down by discussing it with you guys. Thanks a lot. :)

[xlivingfor1x]

This has turned out to be a much better thread than I anticipated and it's really helped me settle down by discussing it with you guys. Thanks a lot. :)

ha yea. considering its the WL and is usually filled with ignorant mudslinging and stupid callouts.

nice to have a change of pace every now and then.

[Sport1.3]

Ever reviled, accursed, ne'er understood,
Thou art the grisly terror of our age.
"Wreck of all order," cry the multitude,
"Art thou, and war and murder's endless rage."
O, let them cry. To them that ne'er have striven
The truth that lies behind a word to find,
To them the word's right meaning was not given.
They shall continue blind among the blind.
But thou, O word, so clear, so strong, so pure,
Thou sayest all which I for goal have taken.
I give thee to the future! Thine secure
When each at least unto himself shall waken.
Comes it in sunshine? In the tempest's thrill?
I cannot tell - but it the earth shall see!
I am an Anarchist! Wherefore I will
Not rule, and also ruled I will not be!

[AirMax95]

Well shit, I leave for an hour, or two, and this biatch goes up to 7 pages!

I feel so out of the loop now, lol!

[xlivingfor1x]

Well shit, I leave for an hour, or two, and this biatch goes up to 7 pages!

I feel so out of the loop now, lol!

haha i went to lunch and it had two posts, came back and it had 44

[AirMax95]

haha i went to lunch and it had two posts, came back and it had 44

Damn intellectuals.....

Ok, now that I read through the pages, I see Ran's point. I must admit that I have questioned A LOT of what I have been told and experienced growing up. My religious upbringing grounds me, in the sense that there is God that "moderates" this world. Yes, there are people who constantly question it scientific rherotic, or even just denounce it period.

It is hard for me to openly discuss it with family and friends, because many of them share my beliefs and such.

If you follow the bible, even a little, this world makes sense to you. Laws are laws....it started with the 10 commandments, IMO. Adam & Eve could not follow directions from the beginning of time and were punished. Laws have been in place to bestow order (in some form, lol).

Now, there also has been a person/force that wishes to defy the laws set in place and use the same arguments that Ran has listed. Do they make sense, very much so! Usually, though, these people/forces are negative in actions and intentions. They want to do the opposite, but history proves that it causes chaos and disfunction. Then majority rule kicks in, because you are disturbing the normality of life. Sure, in some cases that normality is not in the best interest (some dictators come to mind), but until another majority rule leaps the current, it is what it is.

You see, now matter how much you want to be "free" there will ALWAYS be things that will bind you to a standard. Until there is a better way to conduct life, other that majority rule, then we are destined to follow it. We are intellectual, social, and intelligent beings. Even if we changed the current, order would form again. There would be a new set of standards, heiarchy, and laws.

In closing, to answer Ran's questions, the basic drives for life are instilled in every individual on earth. It is us who choose to unleash this power and harness its capability. I think that people enslave themselves and therefore hinder their ability to enjoy life. Everyone who is born into this earth is given guidelines and instinct. It is up to YOU to adapt and conquer. Even if everyone was left to fend for themselves, or rely on survival of the fittest, you would still have to make decision based on a standard norm.

[SampaGuy]

So I just watched this and its completely relevant to this thread.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

Yes its Zeitgeist, but no its not a 9/11 conspiracy thing, this one is new.



WATCH IT

[xlivingfor1x]

Damn intellectuals.....

Ok, now that I read through the pages, I see Ran's point. I must admit that I have questioned A LOT of what I have been told and experienced growing up. My religious upbringing grounds me, in the sense that there is God that "moderates" this world. Yes, there are people who constantly question it scientific rherotic, or even just denounce it period.

It is hard for me to openly discuss it with family and friends, because many of them share my beliefs and such.

If you follow the bible, even a little, this world makes sense to you. Laws are laws....it started with the 10 commandments, IMO. Adam & Eve could not follow directions from the beginning of time and were punished. Laws have been in place to bestow order (in some form, lol).

Now, there also has been a person/force that wishes to defy the laws set in place and use the same arguments that Ran has listed. Do they make sense, very much so! Usually, though, these people/forces are negative in actions and intentions. They want to do the opposite, but history proves that it causes chaos and disfunction. Then majority rule kicks in, because you are disturbing the normality of life. Sure, in some cases that normality is not in the best interest (some dictators come to mind), but until another majority rule leaps the current, it is what it is.

You see, now matter how much you want to be "free" there will ALWAYS be things that will bind you to a standard. Until there is a better way to conduct life, other that majority rule, then we are destined to follow it. We are intellectual, social, and intelligent beings. Even if we changed the current, order would form again. There would be a new set of standards, heiarchy, and laws.

In closing, to answer Ran's questions, the basic drives for life are instilled in every individual on earth. It is us who choose to unleash this power and harness its capability. I think that people enslave themselves and therefore hinder their ability to enjoy life. Everyone who is born into this earth is given guidelines and instinct. It is up to YOU to adapt and conquer. Even if everyone was left to fend for themselves, or rely on survival of the fittest, you would still have to make decision based on a standard norm.

well put:goodjob:

[Ran]

Damn intellectuals.....First off, let me say this was an outstanding post. :goodjob:


If you follow the bible, even a little, this world makes sense to you. Laws are laws....it started with the 10 commandments, IMO. Adam & Eve could not follow directions from the beginning of time and were punished. Laws have been in place to bestow order (in some form, lol).

Now, there also has been a person/force that wishes to defy the laws set in place and use the same arguments that Ran has listed. Do they make sense, very much so! Usually, though, these people/forces are negative in actions and intentions. They want to do the opposite, but history proves that it causes chaos and disfunction. Then majority rule kicks in, because you are disturbing the normality of life. Sure, in some cases that normality is not in the best interest (some dictators come to mind), but until another majority rule leaps the current, it is what it is.The Bible also states that mankind is unfit to rule itself. Not to turn this into a religious debate, but if what you say is true then why should we abide by the laws and regulations set forth by man if God's will is divine law in the end? What if man's law says different from God's? While I respect your religious stance, I see organized religion as corrupt as the governing bodies in the political realm. However, I do not see the religious aspect in itself to be the enemy. Only those that would force their beliefs onto others and force them to obey "divine" law. As long as a religion focuses on those that willingly submit to it, then that's fine.


In closing, to answer Ran's questions, the basic drives for life are instilled in every individual on earth. It is us who choose to unleash this power and harness its capability. I think that people enslave themselves and therefore hinder their ability to enjoy life. Everyone who is born into this earth is given guidelines and instinct. It is up to YOU to adapt and conquer. Even if everyone was left to fend for themselves, or rely on survival of the fittest, you would still have to make decision based on a standard norm.I really like where you went with this part and I agree 100%.

[xlivingfor1x]

The Bible also states that mankind is unfit to rule itself.


where?

[Ran]

where?I'm getting off work in 20 minutes so I won't be googling scripture at the moment. I'm fairly certain it's in Revelations when God is giving his speech on the second coming, the resurrection, and why it is needed.

[xlivingfor1x]

I'm getting off work in 20 minutes so I won't be googling scripture at the moment. I'm fairly certain it's in Revelations when God is giving his speech on the second coming, the resurrection, and why it is needed.

thats fine. im not saying your lying. just wanted the verse. but i do agree that man is unfit to rule themselves but only when it comes to morals. if we follows laws and morals set forth from god then we are perfectly capable of living and governing each other

[Ran]

thats fine. im not saying your lying. just wanted the verse. but i do agree that man is unfit to rule themselves but only when it comes to morals.Thanks. I'll see what I can't dig up. Though I'd rather this not go into a "God's Law vs. Man's Law" debate.


if we follows laws and morals set forth from god then we are perfectly capable of living and governing each otherI can't honestly comment here. I've seen an equal amount of good and evil come from people claiming to obey scripture. With that in mind, I'll refrain from taking this particular subject any further as it's getting off topic.

[xlivingfor1x]

Thanks. I'll see what I can't dig up. Though I'd rather this not go into a "God's Law vs. Man's Law" debate.

I can't honestly comment here. I've seen an equal amount of good and evil come from people claiming to obey scripture. With that in mind, I'll refrain from taking this particular subject any further as it's getting off topic.

thats fine. i dont want it to go there either