SRS question about 100% blood lines

[Tracy]

Doesn't that make them inbred?

I have done my fair share of research on my dog. From what I have read and understand about the breed, they are supposed to be agile and not short and so stout. They are proportional and don't have an over-sized head. Their legs are supposed to be straight and they are only supposed to get to be 35-45 lbs. What we have come to know as a pit bull are really pit bully's, from what I understand.

I just looked on the AKC site for top producing lines and no sign of lines like Razors Edge.

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/e63329fac2fcceaa8525735c0061eb4d/813236a618e12a3d852575160072b34d?OpenDocument

Here are some pics. I just did a google search for images of the dog's names listed:

http://www.pitbulloforegon.com/sasha2112007.jpg

http://carolinastylekennels.com/dscn2984.jpg

http://www.taylormadeterriers.com/rosie-front2.jpg


Now some Razor's Edge dog's:

http://www.kinnemankennels.com/images/razors_edge_male.jpg

http://www.ironedgepits.com/IMG_9099.JPG

http://www.georgetigerkennels.com/Razors%20edge%20capone%20of%20southtown.jpg


Notice the difference?

I am not trying to start a war with Razor's Edge peeps. I am asking a serious question and I am hoping that someone with some intelligence and real knowledge on the topic can clue me in. To me 100% means inbred. If I am wrong, I am interested to hear the logic.

[gottraction?]

Yes they are inbreds. I did research on that also before i got mine. they get that big when that happens besides any kind of suppliments! my male is razor edge. He is 85 lbs with a 23 inch head. and my female is not an edge. she is 50lbs with a small head

[Tracy]

Thanks. That was nice. I was expecting a war :)

[Tracy]

I'm sure it will come :D

[AnthonyF]

I do like the LOOK of the shorter stout pits, but then again I want something a little taller. My Blue Nose is Proportional. I dont have any good pics of her but she is about 2.5'-3' tall and balanced out nicely.

-Ant.

[Tracy]

I guess I like the look, but I wouldn't want a dog that is that short. I want mine to be able to jump in the truck :)

[AnthonyF]

^so you want short with bionic powers? lol

The short ones are sexy with huge muscles and a fat head. I love it, thats what I thought I was getting, but I'm happy with mine. :D

-Ant.

[gottraction?]

ahh did someone rip you off anthony? youd should got my male!! lol

[Infamous_1]

nah sometimes they are inbred. but most of the time, you can breed another dog thats 100% and can still be 100% of that bloodline

[Tracy]

nah sometimes they are inbred. but most of the time, you can breed another dog thats 100% and can still be 100% of that bloodline

So then how does that work? That's my question. It's like the only Shayhorn's in the US are family. If a kid is 100% Shayhorn, then they are inbred since that means they came from a Shayhorn mom and a Shayhorn dad.

[ka24boost]

Razor edge was started by dave wilson because he wanted a pit bull that was more then 50 pd. All razor edge have the same foundation . There are different type of razor edge some are xxl tall and other are short bully style. When you hear some one say a 100% that just mean they contain all razor in the line on both side. And yes all the dog were orignal line bred until there was enough to start seprate line remy and kon for ex.

[Tracy]

What is 50 PD?

[KillaChizz]

well u can say 100% is inbred... but thats how we perfected tha pitbull line.. short, compact, big bones, big head, temperment thats wut is hot theses days.. cuz that is show quality.. tha old skool pits werr made for fighting thats why there so slim and cut.. it jus depends on wut u like old skool pits or tha new skool which is show quality.. cuz pitbulls have come along way to be werr they r at today.. if u now about tha bully movement then u would be interested if u dont then u need to upgrade.. there will be a pitbull show coming in march 21 2009.. u go check it out and watch u will want to have a bully pit... holla

[KillaChizz]

100% bloodline is tha shiiiiizzzznit
killachizz4prez

[ka24boost]

Already got my booth. If you really want to know about bloodline call a breeder roman from iron cross is great, clayton from bully blue and rick from kanibano or just call me. It hard to expalin 50 % and 100% on a forum if you got a copy of your dog preidgree post and i try to explain it in little more detail

well u can say 100% is inbred... but thats how we perfected tha pitbull line.. short, compact, big bones, big head, temperment thats wut is hot theses days.. cuz that is show quality.. tha old skool pits werr made for fighting thats why there so slim and cut.. it jus depends on wut u like old skool pits or tha new skool which is show quality.. cuz pitbulls have come along way to be werr they r at today.. if u now about tha bully movement then u would be interested if u dont then u need to upgrade.. there will be a pitbull show coming in march 21 2009.. u go check it out and watch u will want to have a bully pit... holla

[ka24boost]

50 pounds


What is 50 PD?

[KillaChizz]

wsup veoun.. u goin to atl palooza.. holla ill be there wit sum heat..lol..

[Tracy]

well u can say 100% is inbred... but thats how we perfected tha pitbull line.. short, compact, big bones, big head, temperment thats wut is hot theses days.. cuz that is show quality.. tha old skool pits werr made for fighting thats why there so slim and cut.. it jus depends on wut u like old skool pits or tha new skool which is show quality.. cuz pitbulls have come along way to be werr they r at today.. if u now about tha bully movement then u would be interested if u dont then u need to upgrade.. there will be a pitbull show coming in march 21 2009.. u go check it out and watch u will want to have a bully pit... holla

Actually, "old school pits" were bred for chasing rodents, not for fighting.

I'm not really into the bully pits. I think they look alright, but I like a more agile dog. My pit looks more like the show dogs I posted. She is def NOT show dog quality, but she looks more like the dogs I posted first. I don't agree with the "upgrade" comment. I think there is a style pit for every owner. I happen to like 'em a little leaner, agile and less inbred. It seems from your post that you like 'em short, stout and 100% of a certain bloodline (inbred??? :???:). To each his own, or in this case – her. My question is not about preference. It's about inbreeding. In general, that's not good biology, IMO.

http://www.pitbullregistry.com/Inbreeding.htm

[I]The truth about inbreeding is that at any level it carries significant risks both physically and mentally for the offspring. The further you can separate mates genetically the more you reduce potential genetic health risks - given the mates are genetically healthy - and the more healthy the offspring will tend to be. The closer you inbreed any animal the greater chance of creating what is known as a genetic bottleneck and the potential for the showing up of lethal genes...........

The reason why this is such an important issue and concern especially to the Pit Bull breed is due to the negative stigma the breed already faces with many in today’s society. Breeding unhealthy and mentally ill dogs increases the bite rate for a breed and only gives the opponents of the breed more ammunition against it.


http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/inbreeding.htm

[type-flaco]

well............

to start the "pitbulls" that i and others have posted, have come along way from what you posted, for example look at the UKC or ADBA web sites and check their standards, then check the standards on the ABKC website, the new and so called improved pitbull has come a far way from the original standards but it has also made its own, this is the main reason why some people dont enter their bully at say a UKC event, because to them the dog has to much head, to much bone, and overall too much muscle to function properly, when in reality some of these "bullys" can do all "originals" can and more, its all in looks like stated above even in bloods like Razors Edge or Gottiline, or Mikeland, there exist differences in thier own line,tall or short, thick or thin, it just depends on how the breeder wants the outcome to be, these lines are based off a persons personal preference, they made it and after 7 generations called it their own

Ex. if i wanted my dogs to look like those you pictured above, and i based it off of the "cleanest"(closest to the standard) Razors Edge dogs, then i could make that exact "style" of dog with razors edge blood, and then i could go up to a UKC or ADBA show and compete to their standard of dog, after doing this style for 7 full generations of breeding i can call the line my own and name it after whatever name or word i've been using through out the years to show my ownership.

and about the fighting pitbulls, the pitbull isnt a fighter, its a dog that was made to have a "big heart" some call it "drive" some call it "game", it all the same thing, its having the heart to go forward with whatever the task at hand is, and not giving up till its done. That being pleasing and owner or doing field work till they are at an extremely high level pant, and not stoping till instructed to do so. Even bloodlines said to be fighting lines produce a regular pet/dog. Its up to resposible ownership, and being able to control the dog and show him or her the way, look at that dog wisperer guy his favorite breed is the "pitbull", intelligent, active, and willingness to please.:goodjob:

now on the breeding:
for those that say inbreeding is bad, at a point yes it can cause negative effects, but those who know how to do it properly can acheive something better than the two dogs paired to make them, by bringing in a trait that "you" are looking for and adding up the times the dog that carries that trait shows up in the blood, then you can tie down that trait, and doing this is inbreeding the "correct way".



im not a guru on this but i do love the breed and all the dogs i own or have created over the years, just remember that everyone has their own style and you must love what you do and own, props to the pitbull supporters
just my :2cents:

thanks for reading this super run-on sentence and my opinions

Jose
www.bullySpecKennels.com (http://www.bullySpecKennels.com)

[type-flaco]

another example:

All razors edge blood

"Bully"
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/typeshizzle/023-1.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/typeshizzle/018.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/typeshizzle/kaliandpun.jpg

Touch of bully yet still clean lines; an outcross breeding
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/typeshizzle/006-1.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/typeshizzle/001-1.jpg

Now a girl with drive that i could take to a UKC show and she is 100% Razors Edge.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/typeshizzle/019.jpg

[Justin.]

she appears to be the same bloodline as my dog, same look trait, they even put the show cut ears on her...
http://carolinastylekennels.com/dscn2984.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b8/Dontlikeuho/HPIM0585.jpg?t=1229317933

[Tracy]

Mine kid of looks like this:

http://www.taylormadeterriers.com/rosie-front2.jpg

http://a122.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/46/l_d0113667266161d878b24bcfbdb88b69.jpg

She was only 3 mos old there. I need to upload some new pics. She is still a scrawny little butt.

edit: OMG!!! Dan just told me that he took this pic with a fish eye!!!! No wonder her head is so large and in charge.

[Tracy]

Oh here is a newer one

http://a514.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/126/l_1d302c590627fce1496bf79bd8273e09.jpg

[type-flaco]

she appears to be the same bloodline as my dog, same look trait, they even put the show cut ears on her...
http://carolinastylekennels.com/dscn2984.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b8/Dontlikeuho/HPIM0585.jpg?t=1229317933


hey does that blue girl have some gotti in her?

[Tracy]

hey does that blue girl have some gotti in her?

Nope. That is one that I posted from the KC website. She is a show dog winner.

[type-flaco]

she looks real nice, i ask because of the freckles on the her white chest, gottiline usaully carries this trait

[Justin.]

Mine carries freckles, and no gotti in him.

[type-flaco]

yea some do some dont, i have a gotti female without freckles

[ka24boost]

these two dog were base out of razor edge line

[MongolPup]

Moved. This section is for SELLING pets, not talking about them.

LIFESTYLE
Food, health, hobbies, pets, religion, shopping, etc.

Place to talk about pets.

[IMPORTchic]

How did I not see this months ago?! Ohhh boy....

[dashy]

I like short dogs...

[Tracy]

I like short dogs...Thanks for the insight. LOL.

[Spectic Tank]

Anyone who says the APBT was bred for chasing rodents/or having a big heart is wrong. They were bred for being in a pit(hence the name). Whether it was fighting other dogs or baiting animals.


The reason a 'real' APBT isn't 70-80#'s is because they would tire too quickly in any 'working' environment. When they were establishing the breed they would cull(kill) any dogs that showed human aggression. If you're gonna be in a pit with your dog, you don't want it to take a bite outta you. Once fighting and baiting were outlawed, they naturally became very good family pets. Then, they became a fad. That's why you have all these bloodlines out today. IMO killing the breed.

[Vteckidd]

i really dont like the short bulky ones, i think they look like the dogs off ghostbusters lol

[Tracy]

Anyone who says the APBT was bred for chasing rodents/or having a big heart is wrong. They were bred for being in a pit(hence the name). Whether it was fighting other dogs or baiting animals.


The reason a 'real' APBT isn't 70-80#'s is because they would tire too quickly in any 'working' environment. When they were establishing the breed they would cull(kill) any dogs that showed human aggression. If you're gonna be in a pit with your dog, you don't want it to take a bite outta you. Once fighting and baiting were outlawed, they naturally became very good family pets. Then, they became a fad. That's why you have all these bloodlines out today. IMO killing the breed.

Good to know, I guess. I thought they were called Staffordshire Terriers or American Staffordshire. I didn't know where pit anything comes from -- never really thought about it. So, what kind of "pit" would you be "working" in where there might be extra dogs around that you would have to worry about?

Also, where is the reference for the info you stated? I'd like to read up. No BS.

[Spectic Tank]

Good to know, I guess. I thought they were called Staffordshire Terriers or American Staffordshire. I didn't know where pit anything comes from -- never really thought about it. So, what kind of "pit" would you be "working" in where there might be extra dogs around that you would have to worry about?

Also, where is the reference for the info you stated? I'd like to read up. No BS.

It depends who you ask. AmStaff's and APBT are both from the same original bloodline from europe. They have been split for a while, but the UKC does not recognize the AmStaff, they are registered as APBT. And some dogs are dual registered as APBT and AmStaff's. It's really rather confusing when you get to the naming. The main difference is that AmStaff's were bred for show whereas APBT were built for 'work'. Some good links are www.dogbreedinfo.com (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com) and www.bullldogbreeds.com (http://www.bullldogbreeds.com) (they have a pretty active forum). I have always been a much bigger fan of the American Bulldog so some of my APBT knowledge might be a little hazy. You should def. check out those links.

A pit(for dog fighting/or baiting) will vary. It's pretty much just a closed off pen where the animals fight. The owners are also in the pit as the dogs fight incase they need to be seperated. That's why human aggression is was not tolerated in APBT. If you have to seperate two fighting dogs, you don't want to get bit. Baiting is different. You can look it up on wikipedia(it will save me some typing and possible innaccuracies).

And I don't think I ever attempted to answer you're original question. Full bred dogs should not be inbred. It takes A LOT of dogs/litters to start a breed or bloodline when done the proper way. Most backyard breeders don't have ethics and do inbreed their dogs.

[ka24boost]

I know a lot of 80 plus pit that have drive like a 20 pit. The original pit bull was use for baiting then that was out law then they were use for dog fighting. When dog fighting became illegal they use them to kill rats in a pit. The am staff was created in a effort to separate APBT from the fighting scene. Around that time people was complaining how cruel dog fighting was and people didn’t want to be associate with it. Most well know blood line was created by in breed. Inbreeding can be use to correct flaw and to bring out certain trait in a animal if done right. For an example if you have a dog with a slight over bite from the edge line you out cross it with a gotti dog with a straight bite then cross it back with a line breed dog to correct the flaw. For in breeding to work correctly both dog have to a limited amount of minor flaw. If a dog has an extreme over bite or easty westy cull it and move along. For more information on pit bull try a working dog by Diane Jessup or a Richard Stratton . Or read this link he got a lot of information http://www.riospitbull.com/the_match.htm




I know a lot of 80 plus pit that have drive like a 20 pit. The amstaff was use to se

It depends who you ask. AmStaff's and APBT are both from the same original bloodline from europe. They have been split for a while, but the UKC does not recognize the AmStaff, they are registered as APBT. And some dogs are dual registered as APBT and AmStaff's. It's really rather confusing when you get to the naming. The main difference is that AmStaff's were bred for show whereas APBT were built for 'work'. Some good links are www.dogbreedinfo.com (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/) and www.bullldogbreeds.com (http://www.bullldogbreeds.com/) (they have a pretty active forum). I have always been a much bigger fan of the American Bulldog so some of my APBT knowledge might be a little hazy. You should def. check out those links.

A pit(for dog fighting/or baiting) will vary. It's pretty much just a closed off pen where the animals fight. The owners are also in the pit as the dogs fight incase they need to be seperated. That's why human aggression is was not tolerated in APBT. If you have to seperate two fighting dogs, you don't want to get bit. Baiting is different. You can look it up on wikipedia(it will save me some typing and possible innaccuracies).

And I don't think I ever attempted to answer you're original question. Full bred dogs should not be inbred. It takes A LOT of dogs/litters to start a breed or bloodline when done the proper way. Most backyard breeders don't have ethics and do inbreed their dogs.

[Tracy]

Cool. Thanks guys. Septic, I have read up on both of those sites before, but thanks anyways :)