GM bailout congressional hearing is LIVE on the house of representatives channel.

[EJ25RUN]

check it if you can...

[allmotoronly]

I watched a little this morning. What I don't understand is why the Government was so quick to throw $700 billion at wallstreet, but won't loan $34 billion to the big 3.... The big 3 account for tens of thousands of jobs across the US. From the autoworkers at the factories, to the employees at the dealerships. They will all be in trouble if the big 3 go under. On top of that, there are part suppliers and distributors that supply parts for these vehicles. They are going to be shit outta luck as well...

[SuperChicken]

I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, there are so many other people and industries that depend on the Big3. On the other, these morons have been producing crap for so long, that it has taken/will take decades to undo the reputation for no durability, poor design, and poor execution.
I was against bailing out Chrysler the first time in the 70's, and I lean towards not bailing them out this time, too. The rest of us operate under the theory that if our businesses can't compete effectively, then they fail and close. And from what I see, the big3 ALL earn FAILs. Pretty simple, actually.
Shit, even Mercedes saw what a black hole of suck Chrysler was! I think, though, that this goes well beyond the current economic crunch. The seeds of their collapse were sown back in the 70's, grew like weeds in the 80's, and no amount of gardening at this point will clear the field of the debris they have left behind.

[Cool Cat Racing]

The reason the government isn't wanting to bail them out is so they can declare bankruptcy, restructure and ditch the UAW. The UAW is the single largest burden on the big three and is a big reason they can't compete. Its ridiculous to pay people what the UAW requires for what they're doing. That's a big reason the japanese makers built their factories in the south, no UAW. If the big 3 could pay a more reasonable wage to their employees they wouldn't have to be so cheap on other things and could make the cars more competitive in the market. The government nor the big 3 want to be the bad guy and say the UAW has to go which is why this is dragging out so long. If they drop the UAW and start paying EVERYONE, including execs, a reasonable salary they can bring the quality up in other areas and still have pricing where it needs to be. If they get bailed out the UAW will remain and nothing will change and we'll be right back here in another few years.

[EJ25RUN]

The reason the government isn't wanting to bail them out is so they can declare bankruptcy, restructure and ditch the UAW. The UAW is the single largest burden on the big three and is a big reason they can't compete. Its ridiculous to pay people what the UAW requires for what they're doing. That's a big reason the japanese makers built their factories in the south, no UAW. If the big 3 could pay a more reasonable wage to their employees they wouldn't have to be so cheap on other things and could make the cars more competitive in the market. The government nor the big 3 want to be the bad guy and say the UAW has to go which is why this is dragging out so long. If they drop the UAW and start paying EVERYONE, including execs, a reasonable salary they can bring the quality up in other areas and still have pricing where it needs to be. If they get bailed out the UAW will remain and nothing will change and we'll be right back here in another few years.

Hitting the nail on the head there.

Unless bankruptcy happens, more and more money will be asked for in the next decade.

[SuperChicken]

True. The UAW has long outlived its' usefulness and is now just practicing legalized extortion. But, even if UAW is ditched, the execs will be tempted to take the cost savings and find new ways to waste it...ludicrous salaries to execs, wasteful spending on lobbying, parties, junkets, hookers, etc.
Greed is the root issue here, by both the UAW and the manufacturers. Until that can be effectively eliminated, I still don't see the situation improving much.

[DVSRX-7]

Man this time in life its starting to feel like our government is going to fall again like it did on October 29, 1929... also known as Black Tuesday.. will this happen again? alot of companies are going bankrupt and shit... so idk

[SuperChicken]

Correction: Black Tuesday was not a failure of our government. It was a collapse of the financial infrastructure. And, yes, it does seem very familiar, and is sounding many of the same warning bells. The only thing that hasn't happened yet, is for all of us to go get all our money out of the banks before they fail. When that happens, we're doomed.

[Thighs]

Man this time in life its starting to feel like our government is going to fall again like it did on October 29, 1929... also known as Black Tuesday.. will this happen again? alot of companies are going bankrupt and shit... so idk

lol our government didnt fall... the stock market crashed. go back to history class, junior.

[EJ25RUN]

Man this time in life its starting to feel like our government is going to fall again like it did on October 29, 1929... also known as Black Tuesday.. will this happen again? alot of companies are going bankrupt and shit... so idk

Comon man, you can do better than that.

Are you the product of the Georgia education system?

[Atlblkz06]

Damn I missed that one...

The congress hates the big 3 because their failure is largely in part due to inefficient.. well inefficient everything. They made grand plans based on huge sales figures promising people the heavens and the skies.

Their dreams came crashing down when the figures were not met, yet the CEOs would take home the $$ and live the life of luxury.

The only reason the govt is helping out is to help out the tens of thousands of workers in jeopardy (you know how they are - blowing their money every 2 weeks on beer lol). Big brother is compassionate after all.

Add all this on top of the UAW issues and you clearly have a money pit.

All I have to say about unions: A man does not need to get paid $20/hr to put on 3 bolts every 3.2 minutes for 6.5 hours. It makes NO sense. Replace em with a freakin machine. He can go work at Walmart if that's the only skillset he has. Alternatively, he can go learn to do something intelligent and get a job doing that. I dont care if your daddy and your daddy's daddy worked at GM. That doesn't mean shit!

[SuperChicken]

$20 an hour? Try $60-70! The longer they stay, the more they make! There are many workers in the auto industry that have been there for 20 years or more. I saw a program on CNBC the other night about saving GM, and they talked to a 40-ish year old man who was making $72.50 per hour! He said that he had done everything in the plant at some time or another, but that does not equate to $70+ per hour! Not in my mind, anyway...
That, and pension and insurance benefits that are way beyond what most of us have access to, and you have a bottomless pit. And the UAW is likely to take the same hard-nosed approach that Eastern Airlines did...remember them? I didn't think so...

[EJ25RUN]

$20 an hour? Try $60-70! The longer they stay, the more they make! There are many workers in the auto industry that have been there for 20 years or more. I saw a program on CNBC the other night about saving GM, and they talked to a 40-ish year old man who was making $72.50 per hour! He said that he had done everything in the plant at some time or another, but that does not equate to $70+ per hour! Not in my mind, anyway...
That, and pension and insurance benefits that are way beyond what most of us have access to, and you have a bottomless pit. And the UAW is likely to take the same hard-nosed approach that Eastern Airlines did...remember them? I didn't think so...
It has been confirmed to average between $30 and $40

[Christopherr]

The reason the government isn't wanting to bail them out is so they can declare bankruptcy, restructure and ditch the UAW. The UAW is the single largest burden on the big three and is a big reason they can't compete. Its ridiculous to pay people what the UAW requires for what they're doing. That's a big reason the japanese makers built their factories in the south, no UAW. If the big 3 could pay a more reasonable wage to their employees they wouldn't have to be so cheap on other things and could make the cars more competitive in the market. The government nor the big 3 want to be the bad guy and say the UAW has to go which is why this is dragging out so long. If they drop the UAW and start paying EVERYONE, including execs, a reasonable salary they can bring the quality up in other areas and still have pricing where it needs to be. If they get bailed out the UAW will remain and nothing will change and we'll be right back here in another few years.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :goodjob:

[SLOWR/T]

The reason the government isn't wanting to bail them out is so they can declare bankruptcy, restructure and ditch the UAW. The UAW is the single largest burden on the big three and is a big reason they can't compete. Its ridiculous to pay people what the UAW requires for what they're doing. That's a big reason the japanese makers built their factories in the south, no UAW. If the big 3 could pay a more reasonable wage to their employees they wouldn't have to be so cheap on other things and could make the cars more competitive in the market. The government nor the big 3 want to be the bad guy and say the UAW has to go which is why this is dragging out so long. If they drop the UAW and start paying EVERYONE, including execs, a reasonable salary they can bring the quality up in other areas and still have pricing where it needs to be. If they get bailed out the UAW will remain and nothing will change and we'll be right back here in another few years.


Took the words right outta my mouth. Me and my boss were just talking about this and I got on here and saw this thread lol.