Who thinks its a true story?

[DVSRX-7]

It has been rumored that Mazda would like to develop several Rotary powered vehicles to spread Rotary power across their product line. This would take advantage of and spread development cost of the RENESIS motor across a greater spectrum of cars.

All these rumors and our wishful thinking, got RotaryNews speculating and predicting the future of the RENESIS motor and it's uses in different Mazda vehicles/platforms. RN recalls a time when Rotary power was available in a variety of vehicles, and we came up with some ideas based on rumors, lies and even a little fact.

The fact that Mazda is really good at the front engine/rear wheel drive combination, like RX's and the Miata, and that the Rotary engine is well suited for this application, led us to some of the following conclusions:



A new RX-3

Mazda might/could develop a lightweight, low price point, entry level, compact vehicle that would take advantage, of the RENESIS' newfound emissions and mileage standards. The vehicle could be made in the spirit of the RX-3 Coupe and would break away from the now all-consuming front-wheel drive entry level platforms of the market today. The car could be powered by a lower horsepower (160hp-180hp) version of the RENESIS that is easily tunable for higher horsepower, if so desired by new owners. This would hold price point and the ever-important CAF' emissions and mileage standards of the class. We feel that such a car should be priced in the 16K to 18K price range, to expose a whole new generation of young people to Rotary power. This would give Mazda a very unique vehicle for the entry market, which would definitely attract enthusiast of all types to its product line.

What do you guys think of reviving the RX-3 name? It would definitely be cool to have a 'NEW' RX-3!!

The new RX-7

The new RX-7 has been confirmed as 'coming soon', by a lot of industry folks and automotive publications. We cannot confirm this, but RN does know that a product has been developed and is being considered for production, but there are no firm production plans yet. But, based on our limited information and insight, gathered at a few press events and talking to industry people, here are a few predictions and thoughts on the new RX-7.




Larger displacement RENESIS motor with possible forced induction.
300+hp regardless of the motor being N/A or turbo/super charged.
Lightweight (less than 2800lbs)
Extremely high handling limits
Unique styling and design
No compromises


Mazda understands that any new vehicle carrying the RX-7 moniker will have live up to the 3rd generation FD RX-7. We have actually been told as much by key Mazda people. They understand all of the shortcomings, and more importantly, the streghtens of the FD, and will/have addressed and/or improved on them, as to not make the same mistakes twice. The new RX-7 will be a car designed and built with the spirit of the FD, through and through!

The RX-8

All we can say here is: MazdaSpeed-8! We hear that a blown version of the car is in the works as we write. No confirmation of this going into production, but the car should just plain rock! The concept has already been shown at the Tokyo Auto-Saloon, and with a little boost from a turbo or super charger, watch out!

Rotary Truck

One can only wish! However, there is no light weight 2x4 mini-trucks on the market right now that packs a punch. The REPU from the 70s was the origional "pickup with pickup." The B3000/Ranger have moved up-market, and have been up-sized, leaving room for a mini-truck with the RENESIS for those that needs the utility of a pickup, with Mazda's DNA, and the RENESIS.

The future for the Rotary engine looks real bright at Mazda right now, and we hope that some of our thoughts, ideas and predictions, get you all thinking, the same way it did us. We'd love to hear what you all enthusiasts think of these ideas and predictions. They are really not as far fetched, as they might seem. Mazda is a car company looking to break away from the pack and we the enthusiasts, stand to win big! Please leave us your comments and input. We know Mazda is listening!



Found this on RotaryNews.com...

[matthewAPM]

i think your a fucking idiot. why isnt that up there??

[EP3sAreFun]

^^^ LOL

I voted no because i think most ppl only think a few years ahead. With Ford's hold in Mazda and Ford's demise on the horizon its hard to say whats in store for mazda in the next 3-4 years.

Also, i dont see them making many more Rotary vehicles other than the specialized ones they currently offer. the warranty problems that tend to incur are much greater than a plain ol' inline four or V6 configured motor.

I think its possible, but i'm thinking more like 4-5 years off. if not longer. Sounds about as likely and realistic as the Toyota/Subaru join venture RWD corolla.

oh and a new RX7 coming soon? thats probably about as reliable as everyone saying a new supra will be out in a few years... and next year it'll be another few years... and the year after that i'll be just another few years....

[Mike Lowrey]

Yeah, and right after that, Mazda opens a plant the produces apex seals. They make a fortune........

[EJ25RUN]

The Rotary has already proved itself as a failure when it comes to mass production. The Rotary will meet the same faith as did two stroke motorbikes.

[Thighs]

oh god i hope they dont. rotary engines are like the hindenburg. good in theory, but holy shit did the hindenburg suck balls.

why would a rotary truck be useful at all? if i was gonna buy a truck, id want one that would last FOREVER and had enough torque to at least make it up the hill in my neighborhood.

[87 Turbo II]

There are a lot of retarded replies in this thread.

I don't think they will mass produce rotaries across the line, as they are hand assembled and it would be too time consuming. Also, how old is this article? They keep mentioning the RENESIS but they don't mention the 16X once.

Secondly, Ford Sold it's ownership of Mazda BACK to Mazda just last month so don't even bring that part up again.

Lastly, rotary engines can last a good while, just not the turbocharged ones. The RENESIS had new technology and that brought up a few problems with the Rx-8s but the N/A rotaries in first gens have made it up to 200 or even 300k miles when the owners aren't too retarded to maintain them. The FD had overheating issues with the twin turbochargers and small engine bay and that was their demise. The FCs are just beaten on like crazy by dumb tuners. A factory rotary is quite reliable though, and a tuned one, when done right, can be both reliable and powerful.

[OneSlow5pt0]

only rotary coming out is the RX-9 with the 16x,and when it does it will most likely push the RX-8 out completley

[AnthonyF]

I don't see why it wouldnt be true. They had a Rotary powered truck back in the day. I would like to see more Rotaries in other vehicles. Espically like the Mazda 6 and Miata.

-Ant.

[EJ25RUN]

I don't see why it wouldnt be true. They had a Rotary powered truck back in the day. I would like to see more Rotaries in other vehicles. Espically like the Mazda 6 and Miata.

-Ant.

That was back in a world where emissions weren't anywhere near today's standards and there was such a thing as a light duty truck.

[JITB]

I can see the Rx3/7/9 beinga possibility, but the Introduction of the Rx3 would be the end of the miata.. which wouldnt be that bad considered what would replace it.

i think mazda will also make another full size luxury car..in the near future. And im almost looking at the Rx9 as the new cosmo...

[DVSRX-7]

IM a fucking idiot. why isnt that up there??


Fixed... and what do you have against my threads? go to sleep or something :2up:

[DVSRX-7]

and this was a recent post on rotarynews.com.. not sure how recent but it only had like 2 comments below it.. and for those that own a Mazda and dont appreciate this.. even if its not true.. then sell your Mazda and buy Honda!!

[EJ25RUN]

even if its not true.. then sell your Mazda and buy Honda!!

:rolleyes:

So, a Mazda without a rotary isn't a real Mazda? Are you really that ignorant to facts?

A piston engine is just better and that is all there is to it.

For one thing, they should have developed the Miller cycle engine further and i'm sure it would have proved a better power plant for the street.

[DVSRX-7]

im not saying that all Mazda arent real or anything of that matter.. but they should be glad of a car that comes from a company that has one of the most unique engines ever made... but i wont lie piston engines are reliable because you really dont have to maintain it.. and like almost all the people in the world are lazy thats why they really like piston engines.. if you talk or know someone with a rotary (like me) we take the time to maintain and care for our engine, we just dont do oil changes and put gas.. we actually look into all our parts, make sure everything is running smoothly, we make sure our motor is kept in shape.. but then again some people who own a piston engine do actually care for their car and actually pay attention to his/her cars performance and feel...

[DVSRX-7]

but then again people have their own thoughts and beliefs..

[EJ25RUN]

but i wont lie piston engines are reliable because you really dont have to maintain it.. and like almost all the people in the world are lazy thats why they really like piston engines.. if you talk or know someone with a rotary (like me) we take the time to maintain and care for our engine, we just dont do oil changes and put gas.. we actually look into all our parts, make sure everything is running smoothly, we make sure our motor is kept in shape..

That would be fine if it was 1920.

Cars have moved on and so has engineering. Rotarys just never got to that point where they made sense to average people who buy cars just to get from A-B.

This is the same thing with those of us that like twostrokes. They don't work in the real world.

[EP3sAreFun]

There are a lot of retarded replies in this thread.

I don't think they will mass produce rotaries across the line, as they are hand assembled and it would be too time consuming. Also, how old is this article? They keep mentioning the RENESIS but they don't mention the 16X once.

Secondly, Ford Sold it's ownership of Mazda BACK to Mazda just last month so don't even bring that part up again.

Lastly, rotary engines can last a good while, just not the turbocharged ones. The RENESIS had new technology and that brought up a few problems with the Rx-8s but the N/A rotaries in first gens have made it up to 200 or even 300k miles when the owners aren't too retarded to maintain them. The FD had overheating issues with the twin turbochargers and small engine bay and that was their demise. The FCs are just beaten on like crazy by dumb tuners. A factory rotary is quite reliable though, and a tuned one, when done right, can be both reliable and powerful.
Alright. I'm a month behind. anyways, I still say No. There is a reason no other major company has mass produced rotary engine vehicles.

[DVSRX-7]

^^ lol at last 2 comments..... you will see there will be more rotary powered cars... just wait.. and then when the day comes i will say i fuckin told u so!! bu seriously cut us rotorheads some slack.. maybe there will be more mass produced rotaries u never know..

[OneSlow5pt0]

from a business stand point mazda is dumb to make more rotaries cars,i love the RX-8,but it has not sold well,its underpowered and gas milage sucks,the FD did terriable in the american market,the only RX-7 ever to do great was the FB,FCs did ok when the 1st launched then the fell off by the time the S5 came out...emissons and Gas is waht kills rotary cars,and the price new...RX-8s are over 30k new,which is deff over priced for its sportscar market..........thier will never be a redo of a old RX car,but there is huge chance of the RX-9 which is a 2 seater sports car with the new 16X engine making production,then the RX-8 will die

Mazda makes fantastic cars,the miata is the alltime selling sportscar,an thier bout to come out with a new bodystyle with a coupe version that will sell great,mazda's SUVs are great,the new mazda 6 is a great car and looks amazing...and ofcourse of MS3 and MS6 are great car.

Mazda used rotary to make a name for it self when their started importing to america and it did great,but times have changed..people need better gas milage car,and people dont like stick shifts,and rotaries suck ass with auto

mazda will never have more than one rotary car in thier lineup in american in modern times

[Thighs]

im sorry, but rotaries = fail for the most part. 90% of america wants a car just to DD to get to work, pick up groceries, etc. they want a car that is good on gas and useful. rotaries are terrible on gas ESPECIALLY considering the power they put out and their displacement. my 2.5 gets better gas mileage than the 1.3s that are in most rx7, and makes more power and actually makes torque. not only that, but i dont have to worry about my apex seals being replaced every 60-70k miles, because piston rings will last alot longer. if they could make rotaries more efficient and cheaper to maintain, it would be a great motor. but they cant/wont and thats all there is to it. the rotary is a cool design but it will never be more than a novelty/niche product because of its downfalls.

[Thighs]

and i think the problem matt has with your threads/posts has something to do with you being a retard.

[EJ25RUN]

^^ lol at last 2 comments..... you will see there will be more rotary powered cars... just wait.. and then when the day comes i will say i fuckin told u so!! bu seriously cut us rotorheads some slack.. maybe there will be more mass produced rotaries u never know..
Look bud. No disrespect, but i'm gonna have to lay some things down.

I'm starting to understand who you are and how you think. I'm afraid to say it but you don't know enough about the car business to really be able to throw the claims you're making.

I'll let you know something else. Mazda's motorsport history with Rotories is the only thing than can really be called successful. But before you start celebrating, acually go learn about it as i have over the last ten years. You might find the period where Mazda chose piston over rotary and instantly won because of it.

But again, Mazda is not the only brand associated with rotaries.

I'm still jumping of the walls over the news of a 2009 Isle of Mann TT contender's return.

[DVSRX-7]

and i think the problem matt has with your threads/posts has something to do with you being a retard.

lol i just think Matt is gay... here u go Matt :2up:

[DVSRX-7]

Look bud. No disrespect, but i'm gonna have to lay some things down.

I'm starting to understand who you are and how you think. I'm afraid to say it but you don't know enough about the car business to really be able to throw the claims you're making.

I'll let you know something else. Mazda's motorsport history with Rotories is the only thing than can really be called successful. But before you start celebrating, acually go learn about it as i have over the last ten years. You might find the period where Mazda chose piston over rotary and instantly won because of it.

But again, Mazda is not the only brand associated with rotaries.

I'm still jumping of the walls over the news of a 2009 Isle of Mann TT contender's return.

is the bike rotary powered? and bro i understand it will be hard for Mazda to make the rotary engine compatible with emissions and gas saving.. i guess it will never happen then... :cry: , oh well i can still rebuild mine and keep on going with my rotary power!!!!!!!!

[DVSRX-7]

im sorry, but rotaries = fail for the most part. 90% of america wants a car just to DD to get to work, pick up groceries, etc. they want a car that is good on gas and useful. rotaries are terrible on gas ESPECIALLY considering the power they put out and their displacement. my 2.5 gets better gas mileage than the 1.3s that are in most rx7, and makes more power and actually makes torque. not only that, but i dont have to worry about my apex seals being replaced every 60-70k miles, because piston rings will last alot longer. if they could make rotaries more efficient and cheaper to maintain, it would be a great motor. but they cant/wont and thats all there is to it. the rotary is a cool design but it will never be more than a novelty/niche product because of its downfalls.

man fuck that shit!! i want to race you again!! :lmfao:

[EJ25RUN]

is the bike rotary powered? and bro i understand it will be hard for Mazda to make the rotary engine compatible with emissions and gas saving.. i guess it will never happen then... :cry: , oh well i can still rebuild mine and keep on going with my rotary power!!!!!!!!

Yup, the Rotary Nortons. Then their are the cars.

Nsu
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/84-nsu-ro80.jpg

Mercedes
http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/concept/69mb_c111-1_1.jpg

Corvette
http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/full/hologram149.jpg

There are others as well.

Mazda won't say never to it because there are people (such as yourself) that create a market and a following for the car. That way, Mazda will see it fit to create a specialy sports car that already has a niche. These people wont buy a 350z is what i mean.

So, there are other ways as well. Mazda has developed a hydrogen 13b for an RX-8 prototype but this is nowhere near production and just an idea.

I will say that the rotary is actually one of my favorite engines but my common sense tells me it is only suited for enthusiasts.

[DVSRX-7]

^^ i know all that about the comment above... did you know of the 69' Luce and Capella? those were FWD rotary cars that never hit america but did have good gas saving and shit of that sort.. and did u know of the 13a motor? it was only produced in those cars too.. and i think that is why it saved gas and had better life than the 13B's.. the 13A consisted of slightly bigger rotors and 3mm apex seals..

[Atlblkz06]

I agree with EJ on this one.

The rotary is a wonderful idea and it does have a few awesome properties (like how smooth and revv happy it is). However the lower-than-average realiability per-unit-maintenance aspect means that it cannot survive in a mass production market without some level of sacrifice from its owners. In this case its gas mileage and maybe some reliability.

You also cannot ignore the TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars that has gone into improving the reciprocating engine over the years. The rotary has received only a small fraction of that pie and the fact that it can still compete is significant to me.

Mazda will analyze the market and come out with a model that maximizes their profits - you can count on that! If that means bringing back the RX-3, then it will happen. I don't know if its a "fact" that the RX-7 is being revived but I certainly look forward to that.

[DVSRX-7]

^^ true true... but yet again like i said.. people these days want everything to be fixed without having to lay a finger on it.. but who cares as long as Mazda comes out with another rotary powered car or truck or plane or whatever ill still love it

[EJ25RUN]

^^ i know all that about the comment above... did you know of the 69' Luce and Capella? those were FWD rotary cars that never hit america but did have good gas saving and shit of that sort.. and did u know of the 13a motor? it was only produced in those cars too.. and i think that is why it saved gas and had better life than the 13B's.. the 13A consisted of slightly bigger rotors and 3mm apex seals..

Yes, and i know there are reasons Mazda chose not to sell them outside of Japan. The #1 reason Mazda continued to develop the Rotary in standard cars is because on paper, a 1.0, 1.2, 1.3 rotary is still a tiny displacement engine and therefore can be taxed less. This is a big plus for a regular car buyer.

[DVSRX-7]

^^ yea true very true.. thats why when sold to the European market they sized the engine as 2.6 liter and compared it with a V6 piston engine...

[Elbow]

There's a rotary hydrogen powered van coming out

[2.25teg]

rotary sucks buy a honda

[EJ25RUN]

rotary sucks buy a honda


Yours? :rolleyes:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/image.php?u=28569&type=profile&dateline=1227675201

[Elbow]

LOL

[alpine_aw11]

A new rx3 would be pretty awesome. But like everyone has said, the primary success of the rotary has been far from the standard A to B commuter car. The rotary obviously has had a great racing history, but it doesn't translate very well to the average car buyer. I do want a rotary car someday though, my uncles rx8 was so fun to drive. I love the feel of revving a rotary to the heavens.

[Brut]

My DD rx7 I use to have had 249k+ miles on it and its still going strong. I did regular maintenance as I would on a piston engine.

[Thighs]

man fuck that shit!! i want to race you again!! :lmfao:

my e30? LOLOLOLOLOL good luck.

[David88vert]

Wow, some of the posts in here....
Fact: N/A rotarys are extremely reliable, and require very little maintanence, although regular oil changes are a must - jst like in a piston motor. Both are air pumps.
Fact: While the old rotarys polluted a lot, the Renesis is a low emissions motor.
Fact: The Renesis gets better fuel economy than the old rotarys.
Fact: Renesis has less vibration than piston motors (i.e. smoother).
Fact: One of the old problems with rotarys was carbon build-up. The Renesis changed the seals to avoid that issue.
Fact: N/A rotarys do not produce enough torque for use in a work truck, only small pickups, so they are not the optimal choice for a new truck from Mazda. Yes, I am extremely familiar with the REPUs.
Fact: Mazda racing was so reliable with the rotarys that they were banned from multiple series, and they ruled IMSA for a long time.

[Glides]

The Rotary has already proved itself as a failure when it comes to mass production. The Rotary will meet the same faith as did two stroke motorbikes.

Usually your responses are very thoughtful and right on the money. This one though.....:thinking: .

Rotaries are VERY reliable....as long as you take freaking care of them. IE Change your fucking oil. A Non-turbo Rotary will take WAY more pounding, hard driving and plain ass kicking than any piston engine hands down. I've Solo'd numerous Rotaries and EVERY time I run in the redline, buzzer screaming for 2 to 3 minutes, a time, 5 to 6 times a day.

Now. A Turbo Rotary will ALSO last. My first FD. 138,000 on the original motor, trans, wiring harnes (Which is amazing). What was the secret to longevity? Taking care of it. The problem most Rotary drivers had with the stock 3rd gen was that they paid over 40k for the thing, treated it like a supercar, parked it in their garage and let it sit without starting it on a weekly basis. You can do that with a piston engine, you cannot do that with a Rotary. They get in them after 6 months down, crak it over, hit the street and blow up through the power with a cold engine....pop goes the seal.

So. You are completely wrong. It's not the engines fault, it's the jackasses that owned them and didn't treat them like they should haves fault. End of rant.

As for the rest of this thread.....RX-7 is dead. If you notice, the RX's were a progression number. Same as the Datsuns. Progression means change. Now...may we see a RX-9 down the road with what you want in an RX-7...maybe but I doubt it. The current state of the world economy, the volitile fuel prices, whole countries are looking at not being able to balance budgets because of tanking oil prices, car companies suffereing....I doubt much experimental tomfoolery with Rotary trucks and whatnot is coming anytime soon. Besides, nothing could ever recreate the REPU man...nothing could come close to that level of coolness. :no:

[EJ25RUN]

Usually your responses are very thoughtful and right on the money. This one though.....:thinking: .

Rotaries are VERY reliable....as long as you take freaking care of them. IE Change your fucking oil. A Non-turbo Rotary will take WAY more pounding, hard driving and plain ass kicking than any piston engine hands down. I've Solo'd numerous Rotaries and EVERY time I run in the redline, buzzer screaming for 2 to 3 minutes, a time, 5 to 6 times a day.

Now. A Turbo Rotary will ALSO last. My first FD. 138,000 on the original motor, trans, wiring harnes (Which is amazing). What was the secret to longevity? Taking care of it. The problem most Rotary drivers had with the stock 3rd gen was that they paid over 40k for the thing, treated it like a supercar, parked it in their garage and let it sit without starting it on a weekly basis. You can do that with a piston engine, you cannot do that with a Rotary. They get in them after 6 months down, crak it over, hit the street and blow up through the power with a cold engine....pop goes the seal.

So. You are completely wrong. It's not the engines fault, it's the jackasses that owned them and didn't treat them like they should haves fault. End of rant.



Ok, let me paraphrase in another way so you can better understand what i meant.

Let me begin by saying that i never said rotaries are unreliable and or any other points your rant brought up.

I'm assuming you misinterpreted my use of the word "failure."



The Rotary has already proved itself as a failure when it comes to mass production. The Rotary will meet the same faith as did two stroke motorbikes.


What that meant was in the modern automotive industry, it is much harder to get a rotary to be as versatile as a piston engine. Forget our enthusiast culture for a second and look at the average person who could care less about cars. Owning a rotary in their eyes is an unnecessary burden. 90% of car buyers don't care that much about performance.

Mazda has used this in creating a niche market all to itself with the rotary engine. In my eyes, THAT is the failure.

Other car brands have experimented with it but that has all come to nothing because an equal investment in a piston engine holds promise for a much better reward. Nissan's VQ35 is a good example because so many Nissans and Renaults were powered by it. This has much higher profit potential. A rotary could never be that versatile. It lives as a powerplant for enthusiasts.

This is where my example of two strokes comes form. 500cc and 250cc motorbikes died about 15 years ago all over the world because 1. they don't work on the street, 2. their powerbands are terrible 3. the emissions are a joke by 1980 standards.

So you see? The reason i consider a rotary a failure is not because some owners need proper training to be allowed in purchasing it. No, it is because over the last century, Rotarys were simply not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world. Otherwise, more rotary engines would be on the market today.

[David88vert]

Ok, let me paraphrase in another way so you can better understand what i meant.

Let me begin by saying that i never said rotaries are unreliable and or any other points your rant brought up.

I'm assuming you misinterpreted my use of the word "failure."




What that meant was in the modern automotive industry, it is much harder to get a rotary to be as versatile as a piston engine. Forget our enthusiast culture for a second and look at the average person who could care less about cars. Owning a rotary in their eyes is an unnecessary burden. 90% of car buyers don't care that much about performance.

Mazda has used this in creating a niche market all to itself with the rotary engine. In my eyes, THAT is the failure.

Other car brands have experimented with it but that has all come to nothing because an equal investment in a piston engine holds promise for a much better reward. Nissan's VQ35 is a good example because so many Nissans and Renaults were powered by it. This has much higher profit potential. A rotary could never be that versatile. It lives as a powerplant for enthusiasts.

This is where my example of two strokes comes form. 500cc and 250cc motorbikes died about 15 years ago all over the world because 1. they don't work on the street, 2. their powerbands are terrible 3. the emissions are a joke by 1980 standards.

So you see? The reason i consider a rotary a failure is not because some owners need proper training to be allowed in purchasing it. No, it is because over the last century, Rotarys were simply not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world. Otherwise, more rotary engines would be on the market today.

So, by your statement, F1 cars and MotoGP bikes are failures, since their engine designs are "not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world" either. Hmmm....

You missed one key item - training. Dealership mechanics have to be trained to understand how they work, and many of them simply have no desire to learn anything new, like rotarys. Without the proper support from the dealerships and factories, no product will be stable.

[EJ25RUN]

So, by your statement, F1 cars and MotoGP bikes are failures, since their engine designs are "not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world" either. Hmmm.....

I have always said racing improves the breed. Modern F1 will influence the cars of the next decade as the cars of the late 90's and early 00's are influencing modern street cars. In fact as you surely know, Ducati sells you a real Motogp machine for the street.

An F1 example for the street could be the incredibly high strung engines found in exotics like Ferraris. They need regular and ultra expensive maintenance at very short intervals. This does not work for an average individual but it works for a car that is likely to see less than 3,000 miles in a year. But, some of that tech will eventually make its way to regular car engines.

So, i feel that development in motorsport has actually made the rotary engine work better in the real world.

(if i miss understood your comment, tell me how i am off)



You missed one key item - training. Dealership mechanics have to be trained to understand how they work, and many of them simply have no desire to learn anything new, like rotarys. Without the proper support from the dealerships and factories, no product will be stable.

Most of the mechanics i know come from tech schools like UTI. These schools focus mainly on piston gas engines and diesels. So when a mechanic goes into the work force, they will as you said, be less inclined to learn the rotary engine.

Now as i have never been a mechanic, i don't actually know how many things a modern mechanic will have to adapt to. I guess an example of that could be learning hybrid battery repairs. I'm assuming Toyota and companies like it will be having their people learn those repairs but the difference here is that the mechanics will be more inclined to learn it since they will see it on cars from other brands. A Mazda mechanic will be done with Rotarys if he moves on to another brand.

[DVSRX-7]

rotary sucks buy a honda

lol your mom sucks and like i said before honda is for HOMO's.. (HOnda MOtors)... so keep your FWD shit:2up:

[EJ25RUN]

lol your mom sucks and like i said before honda is for HOMO's.. (HOnda MOtors)... so keep your FWD shit:2up:

Way to make yourself look intelligent.

[DVSRX-7]

Usually your responses are very thoughtful and right on the money. This one though.....:thinking: .

Rotaries are VERY reliable....as long as you take freaking care of them. IE Change your fucking oil. A Non-turbo Rotary will take WAY more pounding, hard driving and plain ass kicking than any piston engine hands down. I've Solo'd numerous Rotaries and EVERY time I run in the redline, buzzer screaming for 2 to 3 minutes, a time, 5 to 6 times a day.

Now. A Turbo Rotary will ALSO last. My first FD. 138,000 on the original motor, trans, wiring harnes (Which is amazing). What was the secret to longevity? Taking care of it. The problem most Rotary drivers had with the stock 3rd gen was that they paid over 40k for the thing, treated it like a supercar, parked it in their garage and let it sit without starting it on a weekly basis. You can do that with a piston engine, you cannot do that with a Rotary. They get in them after 6 months down, crak it over, hit the street and blow up through the power with a cold engine....pop goes the seal.

So. You are completely wrong. It's not the engines fault, it's the jackasses that owned them and didn't treat them like they should haves fault. End of rant.



thanks for backin me up bro..

[On_Her_Face]

i think your a fucking idiot. why isnt that up there??

X2

[Benefit]

ruck fotaries

[Glides]

Ok, let me paraphrase in another way so you can better understand what i meant.

Let me begin by saying that i never said rotaries are unreliable and or any other points your rant brought up.

I'm assuming you misinterpreted my use of the word "failure."




What that meant was in the modern automotive industry, it is much harder to get a rotary to be as versatile as a piston engine. Forget our enthusiast culture for a second and look at the average person who could care less about cars. Owning a rotary in their eyes is an unnecessary burden. 90% of car buyers don't care that much about performance.

Mazda has used this in creating a niche market all to itself with the rotary engine. In my eyes, THAT is the failure.

Other car brands have experimented with it but that has all come to nothing because an equal investment in a piston engine holds promise for a much better reward. Nissan's VQ35 is a good example because so many Nissans and Renaults were powered by it. This has much higher profit potential. A rotary could never be that versatile. It lives as a powerplant for enthusiasts.

This is where my example of two strokes comes form. 500cc and 250cc motorbikes died about 15 years ago all over the world because 1. they don't work on the street, 2. their powerbands are terrible 3. the emissions are a joke by 1980 standards.

So you see? The reason i consider a rotary a failure is not because some owners need proper training to be allowed in purchasing it. No, it is because over the last century, Rotarys were simply not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world. Otherwise, more rotary engines would be on the market today.

I understood what you said pefectly. I don't think you understood what you said. Let me explain.

You said the Rotary was a failure at Mass Production. I say you are completely dead wrong on that. Here is why. The first Rotaries came over in the 60's. R100 rebadged Familias hit around that time. But for fun purposes, we will look at the RX-7's and maybe the RX-8's.

The FB:

474.565 were produced.....377.878 were sold in the US.
Sports Car International named it #7 on it's list of best cars of the 70s.
In 1983 the RX7 appears on the Car and Drivers 10 best list for the first time.

The FC:

272,027 Produced. Non-turbo not allowed in Japan.
They were restyled after the 928 and mostly the 944 Porsches after a lead designer spent time in the US talking to RX7 owners and looking at other sports cars.
Motor Trends Import car of the year for 1986.
Car and Drivers 10 best list for a second time in 1987.
Sold 86,000 in the US alone in it's first year in production, 1986. Sales peaked in 1988.

The Convertible FC. Fatured the first ever Windblocker, the nice little think that goes up behind the driver when the top is down that you now see on all these Mercedes and BMWs. The FC did it first.
It also was named best Ragtop by numerous magazines.

The FD:

68,589 produced. Even in low numbers, The 92-95 years were considered the best seller by Mazda because it was sold to so many different places, mainly the US.
It featured the first ever Mass Produced, sequential twin turbo system ever exported from Japan. It was here before the others.
Motor Trends Import/Domestic car of the year. (Thats ALL cars))
Playboy named it better than the VIper and named it Car of the Year for Playboy in 1993....if it's good enough for Hugh, it's not a failure.
It also made Car and Drivers 10 best list for ALL THREE years it was sold in the US.
In 2007, Road and Track said that the Ace in the sleeve for Mazda was the RX7, A car once touted as the purest, most Exhilerating sports car in the world.
The FD is still regarded as one of the most balanced and finest handling cars of all time.
The design was so far ahead of it's time, that it lasted 11 years, with the Rotary.

Now, We can all agree that the RX7 IS the Rotary. Let's not forget the R100, REPU, RX2, RX3, RX4, RX8 and the Cosmo numbers.

I would say Mazda did anything BUT fail at Mass Production and success with the Rotary Engine. Where you see they have failed by creating a niche market, I see that they have succeeded very much with it. They are not a company based on the Rotary. They will not live and die by it. But they have succeeded with it greatly and have proven that it is a viable platform by putting it into extremely capable cars. That is anything but failure for an engine design to last well over 40 years in production, reletively unchanged other than increasing displacement and adding Turbos.

Sound like success. :D

[Glides]

Now, what killed the RX7 in America was not the engine, the emissions...none of that. What killed it was the price. The RX7 was one of the 4 super cars from Japan. The FD, the Supra, The 300ZX and lastly, late in the game, the 3000GT-VR4.

The RX7s, the Supras and the Nissans all came out to be poor mans sports cars. They were meant to have Porsche Performance at budget pricfes. They did that very well in the beginning. The FBs and the 240Z's were cheap, fast and great cars to do SCCA racing in. Now, as time went on, they fattened them up, loaded them up with gadgets and gizmos and then you end up with $40,000 cars that basically outgrew that market they were originally designed for.

For $40,000 you could get something that is synonomous with style, speed and grace to the average white bread cracker american like me. I could get a Bimmer or a Porsche for that money back in 93 that chicks would salivate over. You need to remember that some of you were still riding with training wheels when these cars came out and times were very different then. There was no Import Aftermarket. Nopi was a bunch of stores that stocked VW parts and I worked at the one in Athens. So buying one of these required a very special love for the car. Which caused the RX7's ALOT of trouble, because people bought them, put them in garages and left them there. Matter of fact, on a funny note, I had one of the very first, if not the first Veilside repo wings to come out of Nopi on my 93 FD in like 97 or something. Back when you could go to TArget and 5 people would ask you if that car was a Ferarri or a Lamborghini or something. You just never saw FD's. I won a trophy once at a car show and the guy announced it as "That crazy red car, we don't know what it is but it's cool"

Now, bring in the RX8....put it beside an RX7 and you are severly let down. Hence the sales problems of the RX8. Mazda just couldn't compare with it's predecessor. Add that to the fact that Rotary horror stories still circulate by peolple that generally have no clue what they are saying and there you have it.

Thats what killed the super Japanese performance cars of the early 90s and it's taken this long for the market to start opening up again to allow things like the GTR to come over here.

[87 Turbo II]

from a business stand point mazda is dumb to make more rotaries cars,i love the RX-8,but it has not sold well,its underpowered and gas milage sucks,the FD did terriable in the american market,the only RX-7 ever to do great was the FB,FCs did ok when the 1st launched then the fell off by the time the S5 came out...emissons and Gas is waht kills rotary cars,and the price new...RX-8s are over 30k new,which is deff over priced for its sportscar market..........thier will never be a redo of a old RX car,but there is huge chance of the RX-9 which is a 2 seater sports car with the new 16X engine making production,then the RX-8 will die
The Rx-9 already exists. The RX# is a Rotary experiement #. They started project 8 in the late 80s (a DDable sports car for the average family man) and they made the Rx09 in the early 90s in Brazil. The 8 was brought back up as Mazda went back to experiment 8's intention. If they make another 2-seater pure sports car, it will regain the name Rx-7again as experiment #7 was sports car.

[EJ25RUN]

Mazda production #s



You just proved what i said.


I said Mazda has been the only company to really go anywhere with the Rotary.

This means none of the other brands wanted to use it. In todays world, Mazda sells only 1 car with a rotary engine.

Last time i checked, NSU and Norton which did try rotarys are dead.

I find it hard to call an engine a success if only one brand has been profitable with it. This makes rotary seems like a one trick pony.

[EP3sAreFun]

The Rx-9 already exists. The RX# is a Rotary experiement #. They started project 8 in the late 80s (a DDable sports car for the average family man) and they made the Rx09 in the early 90s in Brazil. The 8 was brought back up as Mazda went back to experiment 8's intention. If they make another 2-seater pure sports car, it will regain the name Rx-7again as experiment #7 was sports car.
very very cool way of naming the cars.