www.change.gov

[BanginJimmy]

www.change.gov


President-Elect Obama's site with his ideas for the country. Look it over and disect it. What do you like? What do you dislike? What makes you think he is still sniffing china white?

[BanginJimmy]

from the education section:


Affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.

It is not the fed govt's and therefore my responsibility to take care of your kids. If you cannot arrange your own daycare then you dont need to be having kids. No ifs, ands or buts about this one.

From the war section:

The Iraq war has lasted longer than World War I, World War II, and the Civil War.

While this is technically true it does not tell the whole story. We still have troops in Germany and Japan.


yet we are less safe around the globe

This simply isnt true and the fact that we havent had an attack on our soil since 2001 is proof of that.


Healthcare:

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

So now the fed govt is going to tell insuance companes who they have to cover and how much they are allowed to charge for it? The fed govt's job isnt to tell companies how to operate, period.


Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Again, the fed govt should not be involved in private companies. There is no excuse for them to become involved either.


Thats enough for now. I will have more dislikes, and a few of the things I do like here soon.

[JConner]

lol change.com (the link in your first post) is totally different than change.gov (the site in your thread title)! I like change.com better.

[BanginJimmy]

lol change.com (the link in your first post) is totally different than change.gov (the site in your thread title)! I like change.com better.


While I do agree 100%, I did fix the link in my OP.

[JConner]

While I do agree 100%, I did fix the link in my OP.

haha :cheers:

i can't believe this guy now has a ".gov". website dedicated to him.

[Alan®]

Actually I agree with making coverage available to all. My mom's an epileptic and no one will iinsure her

[JConner]

Actually I agree with making coverage available to all. My mom's an epileptic and no one will iinsure her


No disrespect but, I believe that anything that is considered a "right" should be something you can do on your own. The right to bear arms, speech, press, etc... those are all things that a person can do without taking a portion of someone elses life. The "right" to healthcare requires someone (a doctor) to give up a portion of their life to do a procedure when they could be using that time to make the money they deserve.


I do think that the U.S. will have socialized medicine very soon. I have friends that are in college as pre-med majors and I just wonder why they would spend all that money on a medical degree to end up working for the government afterwards.

[Alan®]

No disrespect but, I believe that anything that is considered a "right" should be something you can do on your own. The right to bear arms, speech, press, etc... those are all things that a person can do without taking a portion of someone elses life. The "right" to healthcare requires someone (a doctor) to give up a portion of their life to do a procedure when they could be using that time to make the money they deserve.


I do think that the U.S. will have socialized medicine very soon. I have friends that are in college as pre-med majors and I just wonder why they would spend all that money on a medical degree to end up working for the government afterwards.
No disrespect taken.

But I think you missed the point. Let me start from the beginning.


Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums

Now with that said. Should it cost more? Yes Absolutely. But I don't see how anybody is losing anything by your argument. If anything, the insurance companies would benefit from this as they would be bringing in all kinds of new revenues.

[Spektrewing386]

JConner, the epileptic women cant get heath insurance 'on her own' because the insurance companies wont accept her. How do you go about getting health insurance from a company that wont accept you 'on your own'? Law suit? wait thats not on your own then.... see.


"The fed govt's job isnt to tell companies how to operate, period."
Having deregulated companies is what has helped make things worse, from bank loans (by the way, banks have the ability to create money out of nothing even though issueing money is the sole responsibility of the government), to health care as stated above (companies reject dieing people because it would hamper their ability to rip off others).

If there wasnt government oversight of companies we would see fishing habitats empty, many hunted animals extinct, cars that become coffens when you get in a fender bender, and more situations of companies doing bad things.

[4dmin]

from the education section:
It is not the fed govt's and therefore my responsibility to take care of your kids. If you cannot arrange your own daycare then you dont need to be having kids. No ifs, ands or buts about this one. honestly i think they should create gov supported after school programs b/c child care is ridiculously expensive. it is not cost effective for people to have children here in the US. w/ that said i still think people should take more responsibility for themselves. I dont' have kids b/c i don't want to burden.


From the war section:
While this is technically true it does not tell the whole story. We still have troops in Germany and Japan. we have troops all over the world that doesn't justify us to stay in a losing war.




This simply isnt true and the fact that we havent had an attack on our soil since 2001 is proof of that.you couldn't be any more wrong... we are far from safe GLOBALLY. you like many obviously live in this little bubble called "America". try getting out and travel.



Healthcare:
So now the fed govt is going to tell insuance companes who they have to cover and how much they are allowed to charge for it? The fed govt's job isnt to tell companies how to operate, period. obviously you have never worked in the health insurance industry or medical field. not to wish harm on you but i hope someone close to you has to face such issues so you can see where you are wrong.




Again, the fed govt should not be involved in private companies. There is no excuse for them to become involved either.again you don't have a clear understanding of how insurance works for/against us. more regulation is needed.

[BanginJimmy]

honestly i think they should create gov supported after school programs b/c child care is ridiculously expensive. it is not cost effective for people to have children here in the US. w/ that said i still think people should take more responsibility for themselves. I dont' have kids b/c i don't want to burden.

After school programs is one thing. Day care is another.


we have troops all over the world that doesn't justify us to stay in a losing war.

But we arent in a losing war, in fact we are winning. Since the surge, we have finally broken Al Qaeda's back in Iraq and they have pretty much left along with all of the foreign fighters. With the forgeign fighters gone, violence is at a point that hasnt been seen before.




you couldn't be any more wrong... we are far from safe GLOBALLY. you like many obviously live in this little bubble called "America". try getting out and travel.

I live in a COUNTRY called America, and I'll wory about that first. Call me an isolationist if you want but I am a firm believer in asking for help one time, then if you dont get the cooperation you need, take care of it yourself. I couldnt care less what the rest of the world thinks. We all know they will be singing our praises again when something happens.



obviously you have never worked in the health insurance industry or medical field. not to wish harm on you but i hope someone close to you has to face such issues so you can see where you are wrong.

I have limited dealings with the medical field. What I do know is that the reasons for higher insurance premiums and lower coverages have little to do with the insurance companies. Indigent carecosts hospitals millions every year. As a result, hospitals raise their rates on EVERYTHING to make up ar least part of the difference. Malpractice insuance is crazy becuse this country is so sue happy. None of these thigns are ebing addressed by the anyones healthcare plan.



again you don't have a clear understanding of how insurance works for/against us. more regulation is needed.

Obama's plan isnt regulation though, it is forcing a company to insure people even though they will lose money in the process. A comapny isnt in business for community service. They are in business to make money.

[DrivenMind]

Since when is it the peoples responsibility to pay for a preemptive strike (some call it a war) against an enemy which did not pose a clear and present danger to my country, and in which privately owned contracting companies provide outsourced jobs that used to be done by the military? On top of that, since when am I required to pay for a private military who are not held accountable for their actions, nor held to the uniform code of military justice?

Since when is it my responsibility to be further indebted because of reckless business practices by bankers? Why should we have to pay for their fuck ups?

I can't believe you're going to sit here and bitch about the democrats trying to provide affordable health care and education by taxing people slightly more, when an enormous amount of our tax dollars are routinely wasted on things that have no intrinsic benefits to the people of our own country.

[Spektrewing386]

we should cut military spending and transfer the money that would be spent in the defense budget to subsidize healthcare companies/hospitals. That way the balance stays the same. so anti-tax people wont freak out and pro-universal healthcare people wont freak out.



Me for president.

[Bridged]

Since when is it the peoples responsibility to pay for a preemptive strike (some call it a war) against an enemy which did not pose a clear and present danger to my country, and in which privately owned contracting companies provide outsourced jobs that used to be done by the military? On top of that, since when am I required to pay for a private military who are not held accountable for their actions, nor held to the uniform code of military justice?

Since when is it my responsibility to be further indebted because of reckless business practices by bankers? Why should we have to pay for their fuck ups?

I can't believe you're going to sit here and bitch about the democrats trying to provide affordable health care and education by taxing people slightly, more when an enormous amount of our tax dollars are routinely wasted on things that have no intrinsic benefits to the people of our own country.
I totally agree. :cheers:

[DrivenMind]

And we aren't winning this fucking war. It's not a war that can be won, and that's exactly the point. Get that through your head. This is not a black and white issue, just because your political belief system requires you to believe that since we killed a bad guy, but not THE bad guy, we are obviously winning.

When you win a war the threat to your country and it's people is neutralized. Thats why we couldn't win in Vietnam. We might have scared Al Qaeda a little bit, and made them move somewhere else, but the whole point of this thing was to make some people really rich, all the while doing some good old fashioned empirical expansion.

[Alan®]

Since when is it the peoples responsibility to pay for a preemptive strike (some call it a war) against an enemy which did not pose a clear and present danger to my country, and in which privately owned contracting companies provide outsourced jobs that used to be done by the military? On top of that, since when am I required to pay for a private military who are not held accountable for their actions, nor held to the uniform code of military justice?

Since when is it my responsibility to be further indebted because of reckless business practices by bankers? Why should we have to pay for their fuck ups?

I can't believe you're going to sit here and bitch about the democrats trying to provide affordable health care and education by taxing people slightly, more when an enormous amount of our tax dollars are routinely wasted on things that have no intrinsic benefits to the people of our own country.

Since when has national security held no intrinsic value?

[DrivenMind]

Since when has national security held no intrinsic value?

Oh christ not this shit again...

man, If national security was really a priority we would have been surging into Afghanistan. Why is that so hard to understand? Iraq was run by a fucking genocidal lunatic, and he deserved what he got, but it was not our responsibility to take care of him alone, nor did he pose any eminent threat to the US. Afghanistan, and Iran posed bigger threats than to us than Saddam did. Of course we're really only worried about Iran because they might be making a nasty bomb that could slip into the hands of some more religious zealots, and eradicate all our hard work in Iraq.

Do I think humanity will be better off since the change in government in Iraq? Absolutely.
Do I beleive that because we changed the government over there we are any safer?
Fuck no.

9/11 was committed by Saudi nationals, not Iraqis. Saddam posed a serious threat to his own people, but not ours.

[Spektrewing386]

Also its not like a war anymore. In Iraq soldiers arnt soldiers... they are well armed policemen.

[alpine_aw11]

Fact is Obama will not get even close to everything done that he has proposed. His term will bring slight "change" at best.

[BanginJimmy]

we should cut military spending and transfer the money that would be spent in the defense budget to subsidize healthcare companies/hospitals. That way the balance stays the same. so anti-tax people wont freak out and pro-universal healthcare people wont freak out.



Me for president.


So you think that free healthcare is more important than national security?

[Spektrewing386]

i think that America is so over-kill with the whole defense budget by a huge huge HUGE margin. We spend more on defense than the other top 10 countries on the list do COMBINED.

But then you will probably say "But we need all that money to sustain our oversea bases and ever increasing technilogical weaponry."

I say to that:
We dont need a vast number of our oversea bases and every year millions and millions of dollars goes into weapon research where most likley 80% of those designs get tossed even though millions and millions of tax payer money was already spent on it. Down the drain for nothing. Most of the designs seem pretty stupid and useless. Change our super aggressive hegemonic foreign policy to allow us to downsize military spending to allow us to use the difference in the defense budget on better programs more suited to help the people actually paying for it. Like healthcare and education and community development. Nothing more comes out of your pocket and maybe even a little less.

[BanginJimmy]

i think that America is so over-kill with the whole defense budget by a huge huge HUGE margin. We spend more on defense than the other top 10 countries on the list do COMBINED.

But then you will probably say "But we need all that money to sustain our oversea bases and ever increasing technilogical weaponry."

I say to that:
We dont need a vast number of our oversea bases and every year millions and millions of dollars goes into weapon research where most likley 80% of those designs get tossed even though millions and millions of tax payer money was already spent on it. Down the drain for nothing. Most of the designs seem pretty stupid and useless. Change our super aggressive hegemonic foreign policy to allow us to downsize military spending to allow us to use the difference in the defense budget on better programs more suited to help the people actually paying for it. Like healthcare and education and community development. Nothing more comes out of your pocket and maybe even a little less.

So instead of being militarily superior, we should downgrade to be equal with everyone else. I guess that we should drasticly reduce what we spend to pay our military personell because just their paychecks total moe than 125B yearly. That doesnt even inclue the money spent on medical and dental care, basic equipment and housing for single members. Just a rough guess, but I think those 4 things would add another 125B to our military budget. The add in the cost to repair and replace damaged equipment and you can add another 100B if not more.


Only about 15% of our military budget actually goes to purchasing new weapons systems. Maybe another 15% total goes towards R&D to make sure that we stay the most technologicly advanced military in the world. That alone is a line of defense.

[DrivenMind]

So instead of being militarily superior, we should downgrade to be equal with everyone else. I guess that we should drasticly reduce what we spend to pay our military personell because just their paychecks total moe than 125B yearly. That doesnt even inclue the money spent on medical and dental care, basic equipment and housing for single members. Just a rough guess, but I think those 4 things would add another 125B to our military budget. The add in the cost to repair and replace damaged equipment and you can add another 100B if not more.


Only about 15% of our military budget actually goes to purchasing new weapons systems. Maybe another 15% total goes towards R&D to make sure that we stay the most technologicly advanced military in the world. That alone is a line of defense.

How hard is it to understand that we are the biggest bulliest on the block by far. Even if we weren't at war we'd still have enough arms to take over the world. Our national security is not dependent upon nation building, nor our forceful foreign influence. We are still not much more secure than were in 2001. Make no mistake about it, we have not captured Bin Laden, and we might not. You cannot go to war with an ideology. How fucking hard is that to understand? We can't even effectively track these people down. And we're supposed to believe that your ridiculous idea of national security (see: Imperialism) is more important than providing our own citizens with affordable health care, and education. I think not, and anyone who continues to propagate that pathetic idea, stands in the way of the advancement of American society.

And quit trying to make it sound like we've got something against the men and women who serve this coutnry. You realize nearly half of the people fighting on our side in Iraq are contractors? Do you know what a contractor makes in comparison to a normal soldier? I highly doubt it, judging by the way you talk on the subject, that would just more information your conservative belief system would have you willfully ignore. But in case you give a shit, the average soldier makes around 30-40k a year, where as someone working for a company like Blackwater makes about that much a month. So if you want to talk to someone about not giving a shit about the troops, talk to scumbags who've been running the show the last eight years.

[Spektrewing386]

i think blackwater isnt operating in iraq anymore... but they were being nicely paid by taxpayers for a long long time.
but you have the right idea.

America spends about $1 trillion a year on defense related purposes.

yes i see where you get the 125B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_federations_by_military_expe nditures

Heres another good link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget


the idea is to move the boundaries of those pie charts

[DrivenMind]

i think blackwater isnt operating in iraq anymore... but they were being nicely paid by taxpayers for a long long time.

Don't forget New Orleans during Katrina.

[Spektrewing386]

Don't forget New Orleans during Katrina.


at least they were being useful there.

[DrivenMind]

at least they were being useful there.

eh... from I saw most of the time they were forcing their way into wealthy peoples homes and removing their weapons, in the midst of all the looting, and then asking them to be thankful for not going to jail. I guess they were keeping the order, but last time I checked people have a right to defend their homes and property. Even more so if their homes, and belongings didn't suffer much damage in the hurricane.

[Bridged]

So instead of being militarily superior, we should downgrade to be equal with everyone else. I guess that we should drasticly reduce what we spend to pay our military personell because just their paychecks total moe than 125B yearly. That doesnt even inclue the money spent on medical and dental care, basic equipment and housing for single members. Just a rough guess, but I think those 4 things would add another 125B to our military budget. The add in the cost to repair and replace damaged equipment and you can add another 100B if not more.
.
Don't forget that any military that lives there state they are register in wether it be overseas in Iraq or in Hawaii. They get an extra 1k a week spending money not cut into there paycheck.

[ash7]

here is what we should do:

1) let the government run the entire economy via direct control of the markets

2) let the government raise our kids for us and instill government chosen ideals via government sponsored daycare

3) let the government decide who can go where and when via government run gas and oil companies

4) let the government build our houses for us instead of earning the money to buy one ourselves, and also decide what we can put in those houses

5) and finally let the government decide how/which job we get to have and how much money we deserve to make via tax raises and cuts

those sound like good ideas to me! :goodjob: the more government has control over its citizens, the better! ...just like our Constitution says, right?
-jonathan

[DrivenMind]

A conservative definitely didn't write the previous post.

[BanginJimmy]

Don't forget that any military that lives there state they are register in wether it be overseas in Iraq or in Hawaii. They get an extra 1k a week spending money not cut into there paycheck.


HUH? I know I have alot of misspellings, but this is even out of my league. I have never been anywhere that I got an extra 4k a month just for living there and that even includes being overseas.