144,000 going to heaven...

[4dmin]

Jehovah's witness believe that 144,000 are going to heaven... so my question is why are you going door to door trying to convert new brother/sisters??? that is killing your chances to get into heaven. And if you take into account that the witness religion isn't even 100 years old, what if we are around for another 500 years before armagedon? your chances are getting slim :goodjob:

[SD STI LOVER]

^dang, i didn't know that. they probably are getting worried.

[Killer]

GREAT QUESTION!!!!!

[C22H19N3O4]

Perhaps they will establish some sort of lottery...LoL. I make fun of Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and Mormons on a daily basis. Look how young the LDS church is..LoL. BYU did a study stating that Utah is losing a huge number of people of the Mormon faith to other religions. Like I stated before, every religion has their own rules you have to play by. Everyone has a different "Bible" they want you to read. Religion is a business. The church provides a service for a monetary fee.

P.S. I wonder why Killer stole my sig pic (posted in the test section) and is using it for his avatar? LoL..it's ok. b/c I don't he realizes it was meant to be derogatory.

[Jaimecbr900]

P.S. I wonder why Killer stole my sig pic (posted in the test section) and is using it for his avatar? LoL..it's ok. b/c I don't he realizes it was meant to be derogatory.

Only someone like you would derive sick pleasure from something like that.

The truly ironic thing is that Jesus died even for people like you.

[Jaimecbr900]

My grandmother is a Jehova's Witness. I'll have to ask her that.

I would guess that part of the criteria for a Witness to get into heaven within those 144K is to actually do that kind of work. Not sure, but it would only make sense.

I'll ask her though.

[4dmin]

Perhaps they will establish some sort of lottery...LoL. I make fun of Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and Mormons on a daily basis. Look how young the LDS church is..LoL. BYU did a study stating that Utah is losing a huge number of people of the Mormon faith to other religions. Like I stated before, every religion has their own rules you have to play by. Everyone has a different "Bible" they want you to read. Religion is a business. The church provides a service for a monetary fee.

P.S. I wonder why Killer stole my sig pic (posted in the test section) and is using it for his avatar? LoL..it's ok. b/c I don't he realizes it was meant to be derogatory.

lol i was planning on bringing that up but i figured why even let him know, its funnier this way :lmfao:

i got one for you on the same lines.....

WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week633/pics/p-news-crucifixion.jpg






















































A SHITTY WAY TO SPEND EASTER :lmfao:


and before you people get all over me... it was a joke :jester:lighten up :goodjob:

[BTEC]

Only someone like you would derive sick pleasure from something like that.

The truly ironic thing is that Jesus died even for people like you.
JESUS LOVE U ENOUGH TO DIE FOR YOU AND PROVED IT BUT THERE ARE PPL THAT STILL DNT BELIVEV AND BRUSH THE BIBLE OFF AS A FARYTAIL. SAD BUT WHAT ARE U GONNA DO.

[Jaimecbr900]

Some things are just not funny Paul.

[4dmin]

JESUS LOVE U ENOUGH TO DIE FOR YOU AND PROVED IT BUT THERE ARE PPL THAT STILL DNT BELIVEV AND BRUSH THE BIBLE OFF AS A FARYTAIL. SAD BUT WHAT ARE U GONNA DO.

:blah: you can lead a horse to water but it doesn't mean it will drink.

[4dmin]

Some things are just not funny Paul.

"you can't life to seriously you'll never get out alive" :goodjob:

[Killer]

Perhaps they will establish some sort of lottery...LoL. I make fun of Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and Mormons on a daily basis. Look how young the LDS church is..LoL. BYU did a study stating that Utah is losing a huge number of people of the Mormon faith to other religions. Like I stated before, every religion has their own rules you have to play by. Everyone has a different "Bible" they want you to read. Religion is a business. The church provides a service for a monetary fee.

P.S. I wonder why Killer stole my sig pic (posted in the test section) and is using it for his avatar? LoL..it's ok. b/c I don't he realizes it was meant to be derogatory.

well the thing is i've seen plenty of christian t shirts with this on it... and how many other religions have a Savior that would do anything like this for them.... So i'm gonna leave it... and i didn't get that from this site either.... a fellow christian showed it to me... so look at it however you want....

[4dmin]

well the thing is i've seen plenty of christian t shirts with this on it... and how many other religions have a Savior that would do anything like this for them.... So i'm gonna leave it... and i didn't get that from this site either.... a fellow christian showed it to me... so look at it however you want....

normally that avatar is associated much like this one \/

[Killer]

^ well there is a huge difference in my avatar and that. Mine has more than one meaning... another christian would find my avatar to be the truth.. the one you have simply makes fun of Jesus.

[BTEC]

:blah: you can lead a horse to water but it doesn't mean it will drink.
I WASNT SAYING U HAD TO BELIVE JUST BC SOMEBODY TELLS U SOMETHING BC I ALWAYS FIND OUT FOR MYSELF JUST LIKE I RECCOMEND EVERYBODY ELSE DO. IM SAYING Y ASK IF ALL UR GONNA DO IS BE LIKE YEAH RIHT THATS LUCK OR I DNT BELIVE THAT OR NO WAY.

[C22H19N3O4]

Only someone like you would derive sick pleasure from something like that.

The truly ironic thing is that Jesus died even for people like you.


LoL...I don't ever remember asking him to die for me. Furthermore, provide some evidence that he existed and died for anyone. Odd that the New Testament was written HUNDREDS of YEARS after Jesus allegedly existed. Jesus/God/Holy Spirit were concocted just like Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Howie Mandell. I'm sure many of us have had every religious discussion possible over the years, but one thing never changes....the evidence. You want to prove that Jesus and God are real, so the burden of proof lies your shoulders, but I'm sure you don't want to prove anything to us. I guess the hours you spend on Google cutting and pasting was just for the hell of it. As long as you "holy rollers" pay every week, your place in the Kingdom of Heaven will be reserved. Does God have lay away? You put all your faith in some god, so you can justify your shitty existence has a decent human being. Perhaps you beat your wife and kids...maybe you drink too much? Maybe you've committed adultery...more than once. But hey! I'm going to church Sunday and I'm going to slip God a few bucks and everything will be alright! Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy found God while on deathrow. When you see them in heaven perhaps you guys can reminisce about the good ol' days.

[Tracy]

LoL...I don't ever remember asking him to die for me. Furthermore, provide some evidence that he existed and died for anyone. Odd that the New Testament was written HUNDREDS of YEARS after Jesus allegedly existed. Jesus/God/Holy Spirit were concocted just like Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Howie Mandell. I'm sure many of us have had every religious discussion possible over the years, but one thing never changes....the evidence. You want to prove that Jesus and God are real, so the burden of proof lies your shoulders, but I'm sure you don't want to prove anything to us. I guess the hours you spend on Google cutting and pasting was just for the hell of it. As long as you "holy rollers" pay every week, your place in the Kingdom of Heaven will be reserved. Does God have lay away? You put all your faith in some god, so you can justify your shitty existence has a decent human being. Perhaps you beat your wife and kids...maybe you drink too much? Maybe you've committed adultery...more than once. But hey! I'm going to church Sunday and I'm going to slip God a few bucks and everything will be alright! Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy found God while on deathrow. When you see them in heaven perhaps you guys can reminisce about the good ol' days.

Um. Whoa! :eek: Very organized thoughts. I like that.

[BTEC]

Perhaps you beat your wife and kids...maybe you drink too much? Maybe you've committed adultery...more than once. But hey! I'm going to church Sunday and I'm going to slip God a few bucks and everything will be alright! Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy found God while on deathrow. When you see them in heaven perhaps you guys can reminisce about the good ol' days.
WHERE DID U GET THAT INFO FROM?

[C22H19N3O4]

well the thing is i've seen plenty of christian t shirts with this on it... and how many other religions have a Savior that would do anything like this for them.... So i'm gonna leave it... and i didn't get that from this site either.... a fellow christian showed it to me... so look at it however you want....


Hey whatever helps you sleep at night. You have Jesus pics and I have Ambien. I have new sig now. :)

[ISAtlanta300]

:blah: you can lead a horse to water but it doesn't mean it will drink.

Oh believe me.... that quote is circumstancial..... Let me lead your horse through a desert for 2 weeks without water and I ASSURE you that it WILL drink... :))))))

wha? wha?? thought so... LOL

[BTEC]

Oh believe me.... that quote is circumstancial..... Let me lead your horse through a desert for 2 weeks without water and I ASSURE you that it WILL drink... :))))))

wha? wha?? thought so... LOL
:goodjob: I LIKE THAT.

[Killer]

Pharm_teg.....

NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!! I'm so tired of everyone always throwin up the money card... yeah churches take up offering how else could they be established... or have money to send the youth on church events, or buy the needy food and clothing. I'VE GOT PROOF MY SAVIOR LIVED AND DIED FOR ME! you just won't accept it as proof. and since your so close minded you won't even think about stepping into a church. so when you've been to every Christian Church in the world and find out some proof of your own... then you can tell me if the christian church is all about money or not.. untill then DROP IT! Jamie your right... it's absolutely crazy that Jesus died for all of man kind and there sins yet some people won't even acknowledge His existance...

[ISAtlanta300]

NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!! I'm so tired of everyone always throwin up the money card... yeah churches take up offering how else could they be established... or have money to send the youth on church events, or buy the needy food and clothing. I'VE GOT PROOF MY SAVIOR LIVED AND DIED FOR ME! you just won't accept it as proof. and since your so close minded you won't even think about stepping into a church. so when you've been to every Christian Church in the world and find out some proof of your own... then you can tell me if the christian church is all about money or not.. untill then DROP IT! Jamie your right... it's absolutely crazy that Jesus died for all of man kind and there sins yet some people won't even acknowledge His existance...

Very organized thought... I like that... :)

[Tracy]

Very organized thought... I like that... :)
ditto. :)

[Tracy]

I've been to church many times. It just made me more confused. I went to church with my friends when I was younger. Heck, I even went to a private school for a partial year (until I got kicked out for fighting). Every church I went to said something different. It just seems to be lacking in the consistancy dept.

[4dmin]

Oh believe me.... that quote is circumstancial..... Let me lead your horse through a desert for 2 weeks without water and I ASSURE you that it WILL drink... :))))))

wha? wha?? thought so... LOL

sorry but life is the desert and i still won't drink the water and its been 25 years... and you can quote me on this b/c you wont see me on my death bed asking another MAN for forgivness :goodjob:

wha? what?? thought so. ;)

[Killer]

God's not a MAN.... GOD IS GOD!

[Killer]

I've been to church many times. It just made me more confused. I went to church with my friends when I was younger. Heck, I even went to a private school for a partial year (until I got kicked out for fighting). Every church I went to said something different. It just seems to be lacking in the consistancy dept.

all churches are gonna be teaching a bit differently... it all goes towards the same point though. And have you tried staying with one church for a bit more consistancy????

[BTEC]

ive thought about this b4 and i came to a conclusion. live ur life by ur beliefs and how u want to and we will all find out the truth when we die. any comments to that?

[4dmin]

Pharm_teg.....

NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!! I'm so tired of everyone always throwin up the money card... yeah churches take up offering how else could they be established... or have money to send the youth on church events, or buy the needy food and clothing. I'VE GOT PROOF MY SAVIOR LIVED AND DIED FOR ME! you just won't accept it as proof. and since your so close minded you won't even think about stepping into a church. so when you've been to every Christian Church in the world and find out some proof of your own... then you can tell me if the christian church is all about money or not.. untill then DROP IT! Jamie your right... it's absolutely crazy that Jesus died for all of man kind and there sins yet some people won't even acknowledge His existance...

seriously you want to discuss money and the church??? i would love to see the church you go to... i'm sure the millions that were spent on the land/building could of been well put to use else where. and i like how you stated $$$ used for youth events for church members... what good is your 10% if your not helping anyone but yourselfs. why do you need to get any money at all, its a tax free org anyway. you need multi million dollar facilities to conduct worship??? please explain how haveing gyms, sounds systems, etc. are needed in church???

[C22H19N3O4]

Pharm_teg.....

NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!! I'm so tired of everyone always throwin up the money card... yeah churches take up offering how else could they be established... or have money to send the youth on church events, or buy the needy food and clothing. I'VE GOT PROOF MY SAVIOR LIVED AND DIED FOR ME! you just won't accept it as proof. and since your so close minded you won't even think about stepping into a church. so when you've been to every Christian Church in the world and find out some proof of your own... then you can tell me if the christian church is all about money or not.. untill then DROP IT! Jamie your right... it's absolutely crazy that Jesus died for all of man kind and there sins yet some people won't even acknowledge His existance...

Go back and read the post. Where did it state that ALL churches were about money. People form opinions based on first hand experiences, and most people have faced the money hungry congregtations. I don't know too many people that go to a small church with a bell hanging over it like God's left nut ringing away to gather all the faithful. This isn't Little House on the Prairie. Furthermore, don't assume you know what my past religious history holds. Everything you mentioned can be turned around on you. You haven't been to every church, so who are you to say religion isn't about money? You have proof Jesus died for you? Wow!! You have a polaroid? You have some DNA to prove he existed? Maybe Jesus has a blog where he lists all his favorite followers? BTW, I'm not close minded. Show me some evidence and I'll jump on the Jesus Train to Heaven.

[Killer]

1. because it gives the youth that are on the streets some where to go besides the local crack house!!!! and how did you get that it only helps ourselves..... our church does plenty for out community!!!! and it's very well respected... we've held functions to feed, cloth, give gifts, get school supplies... so on and so forth. all for people who were in need... and only for people in need. they didn't pay a dime.... how could we afford it... by taking up tithes and OFFERING.... offering isn't your 10% it's what ever you want to give. Like i've said about my church in the past it's big for the area... but it's not multi million dollar facillity. and we are currently building a gym/family center, because the city it's located in there are middle school kids that just roam the streets getting into and causing trouble... so were building this for them just as much as for our church.

[Tracy]

all churches are gonna be teaching a bit differently... it all goes towards the same point though. And have you tried staying with one church for a bit more consistancy????

Why should I? It is what it is according to you. "The bible explains it all." It shouldn't matter which church I go to. If it is what it is, it should be cut and dry. There should be no room for differences in the things that are taught (not the way that they are taught).

The main point is that I am a good person. I don't believe in killing, adultury, stealing, lying or any of that crap. That's not to say that I don't "sin" just like everyone else. I'm a little confused about God, but I think he will understand.

[Killer]

Go back and read the post. Where did it state that ALL churches were about money. People form opinions based on first hand experiences, and most people have faced the money hungry congregtations. I don't know too many people that go to a small church with a bell hanging over it like God's left nut ringing away to gather all the faithful. This isn't Little House on the Prairie. Furthermore, don't assume you know what my past religious history holds. Everything you mentioned can be turned around on you. You haven't been to every church, so who are you to say religion isn't about money? You have proof Jesus died for you? Wow!! You have a polaroid? You have some DNA to prove he existed? Maybe Jesus has a blog where he lists all his favorite followers? BTW, I'm not close minded. Show me some evidence and I'll jump on the Jesus Train to Heaven.

You come to church with me and you'll have proof to all the following.... i don't have to go to every church to know it's not about money... i have to go to one.... that lets me know not all are about money... i've got a body full of blood that'll prove it.... Church is what you make it... if you go not expecting anything but to see money hungry people than that's what you'll look for... If you go truly expecting to be with God, that's what you'll get.

[Tracy]

1. because it gives the youth that are on the streets some where to go besides the local crack house!!!! and how did you get that it only helps ourselves..... our church does plenty for out community!!!! and it's very well respected... we've held functions to feed, cloth, give gifts, get school supplies... so on and so forth. all for people who were in need... and only for people in need. they didn't pay a dime.... how could we afford it... by taking up tithes and OFFERING.... offering isn't your 10% it's what ever you want to give. Like i've said about my church in the past it's big for the area... but it's not multi million dollar facillity. and we are currently building a gym/family center, because the city it's located in there are middle school kids that just roam the streets getting into and causing trouble... so were building this for them just as much as for our church.

I gave to the local Cancer foundation yesterday. I set up a pick up for the Salvation Army at the Vortex in L5P for the victims of Katrina. I used to be a big sister for the big brother/big sister orgnization. I used to teach at the community center for Capitol Homes...does that make me a church?

[Jaimecbr900]

LoL...I don't ever remember asking him to die for me.

Nobody did. Difference is some people appreciate it, while others like yourself waste it. Your cross to bear.



Furthermore, provide some evidence that he existed and died for anyone. Odd that the New Testament was written HUNDREDS of YEARS after Jesus allegedly existed. Jesus/God/Holy Spirit were concocted just like Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Howie Mandell. I'm sure many of us have had every religious discussion possible over the years, but one thing never changes....the evidence. You want to prove that Jesus and God are real, so the burden of proof lies your shoulders, but I'm sure you don't want to prove anything to us. I guess the hours you spend on Google cutting and pasting was just for the hell of it.


You need to read the other 15 threads on this very subject in this very forum. We have been intelligently debating this very subject for quite a while.

BTW, what "proof" do you have that he DOESN'T exist???? It's a rhetorical question BTW because I already know the answer. :rolleyes:

People like you will never have any "proof" that satisfies you because you are looking for it with your eyes closed. You are trying to look for the smoking gun 2000 years after it was fired. :rolleyes:



As long as you "holy rollers" pay every week, your place in the Kingdom of Heaven will be reserved. Does God have lay away? You put all your faith in some god, so you can justify your shitty existence has a decent human being. Perhaps you beat your wife and kids...maybe you drink too much? Maybe you've committed adultery...more than once. But hey! I'm going to church Sunday and I'm going to slip God a few bucks and everything will be alright! Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy found God while on deathrow. When you see them in heaven perhaps you guys can reminisce about the good ol' days.

Perhaps maybe when you are making that $100k right after you graduate from college you should invest in opening up your own "church of the truth according to farm boy" since you are so wise and it's such a "business". But wait, that would involve management and financial where-with-all which if memory serves me correct YOU said was worthless courses of studies so I guess YOU wouldn't have that..... :rolleyes:

Call me a "holly roller" all you want. Think that going to church is about the offering plate and not about cleansing your soul. Think that you have all the answers when you don't even know the questions yet. Think that you are so much smarter than billions of people that truly have believed over the last 2000 yrs, all of which obviously were too stupid to figure out that it was all a great lie orchestrated by priests to line their pockets and molest kids. Once again, you've proven that someone with so much potential can still miss the forest for the trees.

What's funny is that aethiests must think they're pretty dumb. Why??? Because single cell organisms w/o a brain are smarter than they are since they supposedly created LIFE and we as measly humans have never been able to duplicate that feat. Go figure. :rolleyes:

[4dmin]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (7 members and 0 guests)
admin, Kristi, Killer, BTEC, tracy, Jaimecbr900, IanHavok
woot woot

[C22H19N3O4]

...does that make me a church?


Yes, if you have massive amounts of shit pouring out of you. :)

[Killer]

Why should I? It is what it is according to you. "The bible explains it all." It shouldn't matter which church I go to. If it is what it is, it should be cut and dry. There should be no room for differences in the things that are taught (not the way that they are taught).

The main point is that I am a good person. I don't believe in killing, adultury, stealing, lying or any of that crap. That's not to say that I don't "sin" just like everyone else. I'm a little confused about God, but I think he will understand.

i never said you had to go... u asked.... and your right it's all in the bible... so believe what the bible says and ur set.
the differences come in because just like on this site everyone has there own opinion and views... that's why there are so many different denominations. i don't know which is right and which is wrong... i've chosen a church to stick with, but i consider myself to be non denominational.

[Tracy]

i never said you had to go... u asked.... and your right it's all in the bible... so believe what the bible says and ur set.
the differences come in because just like on this site everyone has there own opinion and views... that's why there are so many different denominations. i don't know which is right and which is wrong... i've chosen a church to stick with, but i consider myself to be non denominational.

I hate this! It makes me so confused. I mean, I want to believe that we got here some how...it's just crazy. It seems like the facts would be the facts and that's it. No room for margin or error or interpretation. Was the person that rewrote the Bible blessed by God or did he just take it upon himself to do it?

[Killer]

Tracy... not a church but a great human being!!!! :goodjob:

but your close... the "church" is not a building... it is the people who follow Christ. we just have church in a building.

[BTEC]

Why should I? It is what it is according to you. "The bible explains it all." It shouldn't matter which church I go to. If it is what it is, it should be cut and dry. There should be no room for differences in the things that are taught (not the way that they are taught).

The main point is that I am a good person. I don't believe in killing, adultury, stealing, lying or any of that crap. That's not to say that I don't "sin" just like everyone else. I'm a little confused about God, but I think he will understand.
i understand where u are coming from tracy bc ive been there. the reason there are differences in churches is bc the bible tells u in the last days there will be false profits. u have to go to a church where they can prove to what they are saying is true. explain to you how what they are saying wrks and show u were they found their info in the bible. lik ethe church i go to, every time i stop going for a while and come back, everythign he talks about is like we are one on one. bc he talks about everything ive been going through since i havent been going to church. i swear its like he had somebody spying on me. i asked my mom, sister, and everybody ive ever invited to church with me and they get the same feeling.

[Killer]

I hate this! It makes me so confused. I mean, I want to believe that we got here some how...it's just crazy. It seems like the facts would be the facts and that's it. No room for margin or error or interpretation. Was the person that rewrote the Bible blessed by God or did he just take it upon himself to do it?

we just need to have a sit down and i'll try to explain things to you.... this posting crap is getting old... lol... pm me if your at all interested. if not just do what the bible says like i said it explains all...

[BTEC]

I hate this! It makes me so confused. I mean, I want to believe that we got here some how...it's just crazy. It seems like the facts would be the facts and that's it. No room for margin or error or interpretation. Was the person that rewrote the Bible blessed by God or did he just take it upon himself to do it?
it was told to me the bilbe was "inspired" by God. not just somebody got somebright ideas and started making stuff up off the top of his head like most ppl try to make it seem.

[Tracy]

Tracy... not a church but a great human being!!!! :goodjob:

but your close... the "church" is not a building... it is the people who follow Christ. we just have church in a building.


OK. Then why can't I just be a great human being and believe that there is some sort of God until I figure it out. If I die in the meantime...I'm sure that God just wouldn't send me to "hell" because I was a little confused.

[Tracy]

it was told to me the bilbe was "inspired" by God. not just somebody got somebright ideas and started making stuff up off the top of his head like most ppl try to make it seem.

I can believe that it was insipred by God! That's really what I have been trying to say. I believe that some of the things did happen. Just not to the degree that people say. It's like a (dare I say) tall tale that has a moral at the end of the story...meant to teach lessons.

[BTEC]

OK. Then why can't I just be a great human being and believe that there is some sort of God until I figure it out. If I die in the meantime...I'm sure that God just wouldn't send me to "hell" because I was a little confused.
i personally think if u really dnt know and God see ur trying to find out the truth. i dnt think hell let u go to hell for that. but u have to be diligent in seeking him as said in the bible.

[Jaimecbr900]

seriously you want to discuss money and the church??? i would love to see the church you go to... i'm sure the millions that were spent on the land/building could of been well put to use else where.

Where could it have been better spent? Donating it all to people that like farm boy only think its funny to make fun of Jesus? Using that theory, why spend millions to build new schools then? Num nuts that don't go to school would say that's a waste too because THEY aren't using it, huh?

What you should be looking at is how much money the church gets from YOUR POCKET and how much it puts out w/o a single dime from YOU. It doesn't receive money FROM the gov't to sustain itself and pay it's bills. Can you say that about big companies who receive subsidies to survive and even line their own pockets???

People and companies CHARGE churches for their services. Water, power, gas, food, repairs, child care, etc. Where do you suppose that money should come from? The gov't? It doesn't. It comes from MY pocket, which I gladly and VOLUNTARILY give in order to support that which supports me. Where do you think the money to buy food for soup kitchens and donations comes from??? Again, members like me that feel that's money well spent.

To be honest, I don't see any of the aethiest going down and serving at a soup kitchen or donation thousands to help their neighbor or volunteering their time to teach to disadvantaged children. So until you do......don't mock those that do.



and i like how you stated $$$ used for youth events for church members... what good is your 10% if your not helping anyone but yourselfs. why do you need to get any money at all, its a tax free org anyway. you need multi million dollar facilities to conduct worship??? please explain how haveing gyms, sounds systems, etc. are needed in church???


If you have 1000 people that WANT to visit your church, how would you propose to be able to do that? In a mall parking lot? Having people relay what the speaker is saying upfront all the way to the people in the back?

We needed loudspeakers and a mic to call out raffle tickets at a car show that had less than 100 people standing around waiting to look at their tickets. Why is that "necessary", yet a permanent place to worship need to be primitive? To hear you tell it, we should all have tent churches and donate all the money to non-appreciative people.

Reality is that a church is a permanent place for people to worship. Permanent means it has to built with rocks and wood. If it's a 100 square foot shack or a 10,000 square foot auditorium, it doesn't matter as long as the right message is given.

BTW, if a church is not entitled to any modern luxuries, then why do you drive a turbo car instead of a horse and buggy????

[Killer]

tracy:
you can be there's nothing holding you back from being whatever you want to be.... but by the questions your asking... YOU want more than that... i'm just here to help....

[C22H19N3O4]

Nobody did. Difference is some people appreciate it, while others like yourself waste it. Your cross to bear.





You need to read the other 15 threads on this very subject in this very forum. We have been intelligently debating this very subject for quite a while.

BTW, what "proof" do you have that he DOESN'T exist???? It's a rhetorical question BTW because I already know the answer. :rolleyes:

People like you will never have any "proof" that satisfies you because you are looking for it with your eyes closed. You are trying to look for the smoking gun 2000 years after it was fired. :rolleyes:




Perhaps maybe when you are making that $100k right after you graduate from college you should invest in opening up your own "church of the truth according to farm boy" since you are so wise and it's such a "business". But wait, that would involve management and financial where-with-all which if memory serves me correct YOU said was worthless courses of studies so I guess YOU wouldn't have that..... :rolleyes:

Call me a "holly roller" all you want. Think that going to church is about the offering plate and not about cleansing your soul. Think that you have all the answers when you don't even know the questions yet. Think that you are so much smarter than billions of people that truly have believed over the last 2000 yrs, all of which obviously were too stupid to figure out that it was all a great lie orchestrated by priests to line their pockets and molest kids. Once again, you've proven that someone with so much potential can still miss the forest for the trees.

What's funny is that aethiests must think they're pretty dumb. Why??? Because single cell organisms w/o a brain are smarter than they are since they supposedly created LIFE and we as measly humans have never been able to duplicate that feat. Go figure. :rolleyes:

LMAO....again for some reason you THINK your opinions and uneducated views are fact. I've mentioned this before so I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to keep doing it. You sound like the typical wife beating, alcoholic Christian who as no other choice but to believe, b/c if you don't your entire life would have been a waste. You've been suckered into something you haven't actually seen or felt physically. Much like your pseudo college degree. Hey Santa has been around for a few hundred years why not worship him? All you do is cut and paste articles from other sites and for some reason feel like you've shed some light on religion. Your rants are along the same lines as every other religious zealout. You ask where's our proof he doesn't exist, but you have none to validate your claims. I've been reading the threads for the past couple of weeks and you've posted NOTHING that most people haven't already mulled over. Try posting something original and thought-provoking instead of this meaningless drivel you call sentences. Also, try and lay off Google for all you one-stop religious quetions. Let's put that college degree to good use...LoL.

[BTEC]

farm teg, have u read revelations in the bible?

[Jaimecbr900]

I can believe that it was insipred by God! That's really what I have been trying to say. I believe that some of the things did happen. Just not to the degree that people say. It's like a (dare I say) tall tale that has a moral at the end of the story...meant to teach lessons.

Very good and that's the whole point.

People want to find DNA and fossils and scrolls to "believe" that something is true. When all along the whole purpose is to convey a message. HOW you get that message is not as important as you GETTING IT to begin with.

If I tell YOU that a car runs 10.0 in the 1/4....YOU know that means that the car has a powerful engine and a big turbo or lots of nitrous with some sticky tires and maybe even a good driver. I tell that same thing to MY wife and she is likely to say, "cool, that sounds fast...". The basic MESSAGE is the same, that's a fast car, how yall both came up to the same conclusion was totally different. So the message was what was truly important and was delivered to both. You can microdisect it to death and it's still a fast car, but there are always gonna be people who will still want more "proof" before admitting what everyone else already knows. The only problem is that you keep looking for that "proof" but tommorow is not promised to anyone remember that.

[Tracy]

To be honest, I don't see any of the aethiest going down and serving at a soup kitchen or donation thousands to help their neighbor or volunteering their time to teach to disadvantaged children. So until you do......don't mock those that do.


Ummm... I do! Not sure if I'm athiest or not, but I do a ton for the community. I always have. More than what I listed above....including going to the soup kitchens to serve the homeless during Christmas or Thanksgiving. I taught the eldery how to read at my Grandma's job at a nursing home. I actually went to college (which I didn't finish, but I will someday) to teach special ed. I have 1 semester left and I can be a substitute teacher.....(imagine that). I think I'm going to go tomorrow to volunteer to help the Ludacris foundation clean up the apartments for the hurricane victims. If you ever want to volunteer with me, give me a shout. I'm serious. Not just being spiteful.

[Jaimecbr900]

LMAO....again for some reason you THINK your opinions and uneducated views are fact. I've mentioned this before so I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to keep doing it. You sound like the typical wife beating, alcoholic Christian who as no other choice but to believe, b/c if you don't your entire life would have been a waste. You've been suckered into something you haven't actually seen or felt physically. Much like your pseudo college degree. Hey Santa has been around for a few hundred years why not worship him? All you do is cut and paste articles from other sites and for some reason feel like you've shed some light on religion. Your rants are along the same lines as every other religious zealout. You ask where's our proof he doesn't exist, but you have none to validate your claims. I've been reading the threads for the past couple of weeks and you've posted NOTHING that most people haven't already mulled over. Try posting something original and thought-provoking instead of this meaningless drivel you call sentences. Also, try and lay off Google for all you one-stop religious quetions. Let's put that college degree to good use...LoL.

You truly are a sad little man.

Speaking of not saying anything....what thought provoking and new idea have YOU brought to this debate???? That although YOU have ZERO proof yourself that God does NOT exist.....you will fall over your own tongue trying to convince others he doesn't.... :rolleyes: Oxymoronus to the maximus.... :jerkit:

How original is that???? :jerkit:

And you sir sound like the typical egotistical young know-it-all that thinks that because they grew pubes they are suddenly a man. :rolleyes:

[Jaimecbr900]

Ummm... I do! Not sure if I'm athiest or not, but I do a ton for the community. I always have. More than what I listed above....including going to the soup kitchens to serve the homeless during Christmas or Thanksgiving. I taught the eldery how to read at my Grandma's job at a nursing home. I actually went to college (which I didn't finish, but I will someday) to teach special ed. I have 1 semester left and I can be a substitute teacher.....(imagine that). I think I'm going to go tomorrow to volunteer to help the Ludacris foundation clean up the apartments for the hurricane victims. If you ever want to volunteer with me, give me a shout. I'm serious. Not just being spiteful.


I would be very glad to come out and help you anytime you'd like. You've got my number. Give me a call whenever you need extra hands. Seriously.

BTW, my previous comments were not directed towards you.

[ISAtlanta300]

You truly are a sad little man.

Speaking of not saying anything....what thought provoking and new idea have YOU brought to this debate???? That although YOU have ZERO proof yourself that God does NOT exist.....you will fall over your own tongue trying to convince others he doesn't.... :rolleyes: Oxymoronus to the maximus.... :jerkit:

How original is that???? :jerkit:

And you sir sound like the typical egotistical young know-it-all that thinks that because they grew pubes they are suddenly a man. :rolleyes:


LOL great quote.. that last one.... I like that... LOL teh funny..

[C22H19N3O4]

You truly are a sad little man.

Speaking of not saying anything....what thought provoking and new idea have YOU brought to this debate???? That although YOU have ZERO proof yourself that God does NOT exist.....you will fall over your own tongue trying to convince others he doesn't.... :rolleyes: Oxymoronus to the maximus.... :jerkit:

How original is that???? :jerkit:

And you sir sound like the typical egotistical young know-it-all that thinks that because they grew pubes they are suddenly a man. :rolleyes:


Try keeping it on topic old man. I know life has wronged you in some way but try not to take it out on those who already know you're pathetic. Ranting online about how intelligent you are does not help your cause. You chose the mortgage industry as a career so we already you can't be too bright. :)

[Jaimecbr900]

Try keeping it on topic old man. I know life has wronged you in some way but try not to take it out on those who already know you're pathetic. Ranting online about how intelligent you are does not help your cause. You chose the mortgage industry as a career so we already you can't be too bright. :)


:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :jerkit:

When you're ready to compare paystubs farm boy, let me know. ;)

[Killer]

LOL!!!

[BTEC]

Ummm... I do! Not sure if I'm athiest or not, but I do a ton for the community. I always have. More than what I listed above....including going to the soup kitchens to serve the homeless during Christmas or Thanksgiving. I taught the eldery how to read at my Grandma's job at a nursing home. I actually went to college (which I didn't finish, but I will someday) to teach special ed. I have 1 semester left and I can be a substitute teacher.....(imagine that). I think I'm going to go tomorrow to volunteer to help the Ludacris foundation clean up the apartments for the hurricane victims. If you ever want to volunteer with me, give me a shout. I'm serious. Not just being spiteful.
thats pretty cool tracy. as a matter fo fact my mom teaches special ed. she wanted to be a lawyer but thats another lng story.

[Tracy]

I would be very glad to come out and help you anytime you'd like. You've got my number. Give me a call whenever you need extra hands. Seriously.

BTW, my previous comments were not directed towards you.

I know it wasn't directed toward me. I'm just saying that if I'm an athiest...I do help the community.

[C22H19N3O4]

To be honest, I don't see any of the aethiest going down and serving at a soup kitchen or donation thousands to help their neighbor or volunteering their time to teach to disadvantaged children. So until you do......don't mock those that do.



LoL..that has to be dumbest thing you have posted. When did you go out and poll the religious affiliation of every volunteer? I didn't know that the Red Cross and the Salvation Army inquired about your religious devotion. I know plenty of agnostic/atheists that volunteer time and money to worthy causes, including me. I think you're better off in "heaven" than on this planet...LoL.

[Jaimecbr900]

LoL..that has to be dumbest thing you have posted. When did you go out and poll the religious affiliation of every volunteer? I didn't know that the Red Cross and the Salvation Army inquired about your religious devotion. I know plenty of agnostic/atheists that volunteer time and money to worthy causes, including me. I think you're better off in "heaven" than on this planet...LoL.

Hey genius....I was referring to people in the thread that were implying that churches do nothing for anyone else.

You quote me out of context and you think you got me......try again. :rolleyes:

[4dmin]

Hey genius....I was referring to people in the thread that were implying that churches do nothing for anyone else.

You quote me out of context and you think you got me......try again. :rolleyes:

boy this topic has gone to shit :rolleyes:

who ever implied that all churches do nothing for others.??? i do find it funny you think only christians would be in soup kitchens or helping the needy. who is thinking small now? by the way i donated 3x to the Hurricane relief and i have checked in to giving someone a place to stay. i'm not christian ;)

[Jaimecbr900]

boy this topic has gone to shit :rolleyes:

Tell fag boy to get off my nuts and we can get back to adult conversations. ;)


who ever implied that all churches do nothing for others.???

You didn't imply anything, you said it point blank when you said that churches only do events and programs to "benefit only themselves"...... :rolleyes:

Did you not say that?????? What else did you mean then if not the obvious?

[4dmin]

Tell fag boy to get off my nuts and we can get back to adult conversations. ;)



You didn't imply anything, you said it point blank when you said that churches only do events and programs to "benefit only themselves"...... :rolleyes:

Did you not say that?????? What else did you mean then if not the obvious?

your taking my words and twisting them now.. i point blank said "what good is your 10% if your only helping yourselves", which was my comment to him stating they use their church money to fund church activities.

the point is, you shouldn't have to give a 1$ to a church.... $$$ is the root of all evil and its amazing that they are asking for it everytime they open their doors.

[Killer]

your taking my words and twisting them now.. i point blank said "what good is your 10% if your only helping yourselves", which was my comment to him stating they use their church money to fund church activities.

the point is, you shouldn't have to give a 1$ to a church.... $$$ is the root of all evil and its amazing that they are asking for it everytime they open their doors.

ok.... 1. they don't force you to give... 2. where did i ever say we only use the money for church events.... 3. sending unsaved youth to a huge christian event is a great thing to spend money on.... (the event winterfest... i was one of those kids) 4. i've stated plenty of times that our church has helped our community in plenty of ways. so tell me again how that's only spending money on the church??? let's all start giving you money and see what u do with it... how much will you help your community with that money... or how many new parts would your car get????

you have no idea how a church really functions because if you did you would understand y they take up an "offering".

[Jaimecbr900]

your taking my words and twisting them now.. i point blank said "what good is your 10% if your only helping yourselves", which was my comment to him stating they use their church money to fund church activities.

Paul, you're my boy and all, but you're double talking now.

How much more clearer can YOU be when you say that, "what good is your 10% (i.e. WHY donate) if you're only helping yourselves(i.e. noone else)"????? That's pretty clear to me what you're saying. If you want to clarify it some way, clarify it but don't try and say I'M twisting it, because it's pretty clear.

BTW, the "10%" as you put it goes for ALL church functions. As I previously mentioned that includes day-to-day operations, charity, missionary work, community work, etc. The offering plate money does NOT only go to fund church only activities. It does go towards that, but that's only ONE of many destinations the money goes to.




the point is, you shouldn't have to give a 1$ to a church.... $$$ is the root of all evil and its amazing that they are asking for it everytime they open their doors.


Name a bank that gives ANYONE money to build for free. Not one, right? Now go one more step; Name a utility company that gives away their product. Not one, right? One more step; Name a city that doesn't charge property taxes on prime piece of commercial real estate. Not one, right?

So how in the world do you propose, besides not having ANY churches at all, to be able to have a place for people to congregate together and worship???? They may be exempt from paying SOME taxes, but they're certainly not exempt from paying ALL taxes. Some of the requirements of being a charitable organization by law makes them have to use outside agencies to keep certain things fair. Those agencies damn sure don't do their work for FREE. Who should pay for that? Tax payers? Maybe they should since we pay for a ton of worthless crap already anyway, this would actually be a welcomed change to that monotony.

My point is that a church is a self sufficient entity. The gov't doesn't support it, the members do. I agree that if a church is all about the "money", then it certainly is not a church to be associated with. But certainly NOT ALL churches are strictly about the "money" as you'd like people to believe. That's generalizing. That's like saying ALL VW's are slow. The majority are, but we both know that not ALL are, so that statement would be false. Your statement is the same way.

[4dmin]

you have no idea how a church really functions because if you did you would understand y they take up an "offering".

oh your right, i've never been to church, i have no idea what i'm talking about, and i'm sure the billions of offerings taken up are used quite wisely :jerkit:

i'm sure the gym your church is building is for those inner city kids in Kennesaw :lmfao: or maybe to shelter the homeless and hungry. give me a fucking break dude we live in the real world, multi million dollar churches are there for a reason to take in $$$ to support the needs of its followers and its leaders. if you would taking in money for to better man kind you could of saved the $$$ spent on recreational facilitys and built something for a community in need (not the suburbs).

[4dmin]

Paul, you're my boy and all, but you're double talking now.

How much more clearer can YOU be when you say that, "what good is your 10% (i.e. WHY donate) if you're only helping yourselves(i.e. noone else)"????? That's pretty clear to me what you're saying. If you want to clarify it some way, clarify it but don't try and say I'M twisting it, because it's pretty clear.

BTW, the "10%" as you put it goes for ALL church functions. As I previously mentioned that includes day-to-day operations, charity, missionary work, community work, etc. The offering plate money does NOT only go to fund church only activities. It does go towards that, but that's only ONE of many destinations the money goes to.






Name a bank that gives ANYONE money to build for free. Not one, right? Now go one more step; Name a utility company that gives away their product. Not one, right? One more step; Name a city that doesn't charge property taxes on prime piece of commercial real estate. Not one, right?

So how in the world do you propose, besides not having ANY churches at all, to be able to have a place for people to congregate together and worship???? They may be exempt from paying SOME taxes, but they're certainly not exempt from paying ALL taxes. Some of the requirements of being a charitable organization by law makes them have to use outside agencies to keep certain things fair. Those agencies damn sure don't do their work for FREE. Who should pay for that? Tax payers? Maybe they should since we pay for a ton of worthless crap already anyway, this would actually be a welcomed change to that monotony.

My point is that a church is a self sufficient entity. The gov't doesn't support it, the members do. I agree that if a church is all about the "money", then it certainly is not a church to be associated with. But certainly NOT ALL churches are strictly about the "money" as you'd like people to believe. That's generalizing. That's like saying ALL VW's are slow. The majority are, but we both know that not ALL are, so that statement would be false. Your statement is the same way.

jamie your still twisting my words to suit your comments... re read the post... he posted what they spend money, i merely asked a question of how you turning it into me making a statement. you are reading way to much into what i said. your smarter than this i would think you would see that.

obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace.... :rolleyes: com'on jamie your in the mortgage business, you know the cost of land/building... your trying to tell me some of the churches in the metro area need the facilities they have built? i know churches w/ clubs in them w/ 75k audio setups, with cafes, gyms bigger than your local schools, etc... that is not excess???

seriously some of you are way more closed minded than i thought, you are quite blinded by your faith. thats cool if you want to believe whatever i don't down you for it, but don't act stupid, you and i both know religion is a multi billion dollar business if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion. :goodjob:

[Jaimecbr900]

obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace.... :rolleyes: com'on jamie your in the mortgage business, you know the cost of land/building... your trying to tell me some of the churches in the metro area need the facilities they have built? i know churches w/ clubs in them w/ 75k audio setups, with cafes, gyms bigger than your local schools, etc... that is not excess???

You're right about that. Cafes and clubs and things like that are excessive. I don't see how that serves a church-like effort. And you are absolutely correct in that is not the way Christianity is intended. Give you all that.

Those type of churches are exactly the churches I don't like myself. I wouldn't attend nor support them. Is their message bad? I don't know because I don't go there.

I also know that is the exception and not the rule. My church doesn't have a cafe or a club. It may have a gym and some sound equipment, but both are used for ton of things INCLUDING community work. I've only gone personally to one big church that had some of the things you're mentioning, but not quite the cafe/club thing. I know they probably exist, but I also know that the vast majority of churches not only couldn't afford to do that, but also would refuse to do that. That's my point. To hear you talk, if people didn't know any better, they'd assume ALL churches are these multi million dollar conglomerate magnates that shower their own leaders ala Jim Baker and Tammyesque. I'm here to tell you that's simply not true. Yes, it does exist. Yes, it has always been there. Yes, people take advantage of a captive audience to fleece them. BUT that is the exception and NOT the rule.

The majority of church leaders (generic for priest, rev, pastor, etc.) live meek lives and humble existances. My preacher drives a plain jane Honda Accord, and his wife a mini van. That's it. Your house is worth more than theirs. The church may have a million dollar budget, but it's certainly not spent on them unless they are hiding the money somewhere, which I personally doubt.

[Killer]

oh your right, i've never been to church, i have no idea what i'm talking about, and i'm sure the billions of offerings taken up are used quite wisely :jerkit:

i'm sure the gym your church is building is for those inner city kids in Kennesaw :lmfao: or maybe to shelter the homeless and hungry. give me a fucking break dude we live in the real world, multi million dollar churches are there for a reason to take in $$$ to support the needs of its followers and its leaders. if you would taking in money for to better man kind you could of saved the $$$ spent on recreational facilitys and built something for a community in need (not the suburbs).


how many more times do i have to say my church isn't in kennesaw... it's in McCaysville Ga. and Yeah were gonna use the gym for whatever we want, but it's there for everyone and anyone.... and for the last time... my church does plenty for our community... where r u getting this multi million dollar church stuff.... small town small church... (big for the area but nothing compared to the one's here...) and i never said u've never been to church i said u don't understand how it works....

[Tracy]

what do ya'll think about the television evangalists? (sp) Like that lady with the light lavender hair. I lister to her sometimes and I'm like WTF???? She cries everyday, but I never see a tear.

[Killer]

some are real... some are just tryin to get money it's as simple as that... i can't judge who but it happens...

[ISAtlanta300]

what do ya'll think about the television evangalists? (sp) Like that lady with the light lavender hair. I lister to her sometimes and I'm like WTF???? She cries everyday, but I never see a tear.

Sadly, that image is engraved in many people's mind and that is how they formulate their idea on what a church is, instead of finding out otherwise...

We live in an era where pleny of people would rather believe the television instead of their fellow man.....

Paul a church has expenses. I am sure that even some car clubs on Ia.com ask for a "member fee". People often ask to BYOB at cookouts.

Nopi charges you $$$ to "enter" just to "show"...
By your standards, all those things should be free right? I mean come ON ! NOPI?? Makes TONS of money right?? it should GIVE to its members and not "support" itself right???

[4dmin]

Paul a church has expenses. I am sure that even some car clubs on Ia.com ask for a "member fee". People often ask to BYOB at cookouts.

Nopi charges you $$$ to "enter" just to "show"...
By your standards, all those things should be free right? I mean come ON ! NOPI?? Makes TONS of money right?? it should GIVE to its members and not "support" itself right???

yes but do you see car clubs w/ multi million dollar complexs??? have you ever priced out lifesize crosses, stainedglass, etc... its not cheap nor is it neccessary to worship. it is a choice that is made the ideas of man to build bigger and better, almost like paving your way to heaven :goodjob:

[ISAtlanta300]

I have seen car shows rent up the Multi-million dollar complexes and conference center. Why have it in a nice A/C place with angle-lighting, DJ's and music and strippers and everything but the kitchen sink? Why not just have it in a parking lot under the sun? That is what you want chuchgoers to do too anyway?

[4dmin]

I have seen car shows rent up the Multi-million dollar complexes and conference center. Why have it in a nice A/C place with angle-lighting, DJ's and music and strippers and everything but the kitchen sink? Why not just have it in a parking lot under the sun? That is what you want chuchgoers to do too anyway?

hold on... i'm only staying w/ you b/c you wanted to use something as an example... granted its not a good one, but whatever... you have to remember the diffrence here. i throw a car show and it cost 1 million dollars, who cars, it has nothing to do w/ religion, i spend how i see fit.. the point though is if i spend 1 million on a facility w/ stained glass windows, scriptures on the wall, life size crosses, etc... what is the point of that/??? that is excess, the message is the same in someones home as it is in a multimillion dollar facility.

its like buying Air Jordans, they don't make you play like Jordan :goodjob:

[Tracy]

I have seen car shows rent up the Multi-million dollar complexes and conference center. Why have it in a nice A/C place with angle-lighting, DJ's and music and strippers and everything but the kitchen sink? Why not just have it in a parking lot under the sun? That is what you want chuchgoers to do too anyway?

Gluttony is a sin. No one goes to car shows to worship God.

[Jaimecbr900]

Some things that you guys are mentioning are DONATED to the church by people, i.e. it doesn't cost the church a penny for it.

I know this to be true because at my church they have a beautiful stained glass mural behind the choir that was donated by one of it's members. He asked for that specific thing to be done because he wanted people to see something pretty at church. It cost him some money, but it didn't cost the church a dime. Things like that are more common than you think.

The other night, speaking of mega sound systems, I personally had to bring a cd player to play the music for the kids because the old cd player died. I left it up there and it will probably become a permanent part of the sanctuary where we meet for the kids music time. That didn't cost the church a dime either.

There are many other examples from swing sets to pinestraw. It doesn't happen everyday, but sometimes one time donations can last a long time too.

You'd be surprised at what a good church's budget consists of. It's not always to buy their preacher a MB or a mega mansion. Again, that is the exception and not the rule.

[ISAtlanta300]

hold on... i'm only staying w/ you b/c you wanted to use something as an example... granted its not a good one, but whatever... you have to remember the diffrence here. i throw a car show and it cost 1 million dollars, who cars, it has nothing to do w/ religion, i spend how i see fit.. the point though is if i spend 1 million on a facility w/ stained glass windows, scriptures on the wall, life size crosses, etc... what is the point of that/??? that is excess, the message is the same in someones home as it is in a multimillion dollar facility.

its like buying Air Jordans, they don't make you play like Jordan :goodjob:

And if a church has a sermon do you have any idea what it costs? And you are talking about churches with streets of gold. I know my church does not have stained glass windows with ivory altars and stuff. It is a plain and simple structure. It was constructed mainly by volunteers. However, there IS upkeep associated with it. And upkeep = money.

And who cares if you spend 1 million dollars on a car show? Obviously you care if a church spend 1 million dollar on a building... so there I was trying to make you see that you want it one way, but do not want it the other. Like YOU can spend a million dollar on a car show and it is justified. But a church spending a million dollars through donations. oh NO that is WRONG !! Money is better off given to you for your "car show" right? :)

[ISAtlanta300]

Gluttony is a sin. No one goes to car shows to worship God.


Back at ya. 1 million on a car show is "gluttony" in my book. :)

And dressing up cars is "vanity" another sin... :)

[ISAtlanta300]

the message is the same in someones home as it is in a multimillion dollar facility.




LOL next church gathering at your house.. make sure your driveway can hold hundreds of cars and make sure your livingroom has hundreds of seats.. :)

[PSINXS]

Jehovah's witness believe that 144,000 are going to heaven... so my question is why are you going door to door trying to convert new brother/sisters??? that is killing your chances to get into heaven. And if you take into account that the witness religion isn't even 100 years old, what if we are around for another 500 years before armagedon? your chances are getting slim :goodjob:
the great crowd remains on earth. and they do not try to convert. they are out informing. nobody asks you become a jehovahs witness now!! they offer bible studies IF u want to learn more. There are 144k anointed that will go to heaven while the rest remain on earth in paradise. Read revelation. I can get my bible n pull up a few scriptures. My parents are witnesses.

and jehovah witnesses are christians. they believe in christ, god, and the bible. their aim is not to go to heaven.

[Julio]

I can imagine it now... the 144 k peeps laughing from the star wars world at the left overs jehova witness folks..... Bhewhahahah

[Julio]

Money is better off given to you for your "car show" right? :)



Why should he spend it on a church?

[Ncturnal]

Jehovah's witness believe that 144,000 are going to heaven... so my question is why are you going door to door trying to convert new brother/sisters??? that is killing your chances to get into heaven. And if you take into account that the witness religion isn't even 100 years old, what if we are around for another 500 years before armagedon? your chances are getting slim :goodjob:

Their belief is based on the book of Revalation that states that the number brought up to Heaven is 144,000. I forget the exact verses because it's been a really long time. They believe God's initial will as stated in the book of Genesis to "subdue the earth and inhabit it" will still be fullfilled. They are not trying to get into Heaven because they believe they are destined to live on and inhabit the Earth after Armageddon, except for the 144,000, who according to them "know" who they are. This of course contends that you believe in the Bible. I have to give them credit though, at least they have actually read the book they claim to have faith in, which is more than I can say for the majority of organized Christian religions.

[Ncturnal]

:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :jerkit:

When you're ready to compare paystubs farm boy, let me know. ;)

:surrender

[Ncturnal]

LoL..that has to be dumbest thing you have posted. When did you go out and poll the religious affiliation of every volunteer? I didn't know that the Red Cross and the Salvation Army inquired about your religious devotion. I know plenty of agnostic/atheists that volunteer time and money to worthy causes, including me. I think you're better off in "heaven" than on this planet...LoL.

Useless factoid: did you know that the Salvation Army is actually a religion?

[Ncturnal]

jamie your still twisting my words to suit your comments... re read the post... he posted what they spend money, i merely asked a question of how you turning it into me making a statement. you are reading way to much into what i said. your smarter than this i would think you would see that.

obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace.... :rolleyes: com'on jamie your in the mortgage business, you know the cost of land/building... your trying to tell me some of the churches in the metro area need the facilities they have built? i know churches w/ clubs in them w/ 75k audio setups, with cafes, gyms bigger than your local schools, etc... that is not excess???

seriously some of you are way more closed minded than i thought, you are quite blinded by your faith. thats cool if you want to believe whatever i don't down you for it, but don't act stupid, you and i both know religion is a multi billion dollar business if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion. :goodjob:

Another useless factoid: Did you know that the Catholic church is the largest land-owner in the world?

I have to agree...religion=big business in many cases.

[Jaimecbr900]

I'll compare stubs if you want to get all cocky about it. :eye: I'd expect better behavior out of a so-called Christian.

I'd expect a grown man to be able to read too, but obviously that didn't work with you now did it? :eye: I was talking to farm boy, not you. If you'd like to be included in with farm boy, let me know.

[Ncturnal]

I'd expect a grown man to be able to read too, but obviously that didn't work with you now did it? :eye: I was talking to farm boy, not you. If you'd like to be included in with farm boy, let me know.

***edit - better left unsaid :)***

[Jaimecbr900]

You may have been talking to him, but I was talking to you, Choirboy. You preach your stupid fucking bullshit all the time here; how about you start practicing some of it? You fucking hypocrite. Holier than thou assholes like you are why I think all you religious fucks can suck my dick. :jerkit:

You seem to have forgotten that I know you Brian. Speaking of *edited for content*....you shake my hand when I talk to you at the shop and now this? *edited for content*

You don't want to listen to what I "preach" (according to you) here?....That's what the "log out" button of your browser is for. You don't have to like it, listen to it, or even let it bother you. If you do, it's your choice *edit*.

[Ncturnal]

You have the same options as well. If you want to preach on one hand, and berate people on the other, then expect the BS flag to be raised. You're not helping your cause by being a dick to people. ****edit*** If you want to win people over to your way of thinking, maybe you should reevaluate your approach. Right now, your doing more to turn people away from your way of thinking. If you're going to preach it, you should live it too, otherwise you're just helping to perpetuate the bad name religion already has. Also, If you acted the same way in person, I wouldn't be shaking your hand.

[Jaimecbr900]

You have the same options as well. If you want to preach on one hand, and berate people on the other, then expect the BS flag to be raised. You're not helping your cause by being a dick to people. The "sucking my dick" reference is a figure of speach, and you know that. If you want to win people over to your way of thinking, maybe you should reevaluate your approach. Right now, your doing more to turn people away from your way of thinking. If you're going to preach it, you should live it too.

You are the only person to ever say that I was "preaching" anything. I'm opinionated. Does that make me a "preacher"? Maybe in your book, but not in mine. I've never looked down my nose at anyone, except for one person on this entire board that I truly don't like. That doesn't mean that I'm also going to sit here and let you or anyone else blast me w/o a rebuttal either. I deal with people the exact same way they deal with me. Ask anyone. If you come at me sideways, well then I return the kindness. If you come at me straight, I do the same. That's far from being a hypocrite like you called me, it's actually being the opposite. ;)

You are the first and only person I've ever heard of that says that a comment such as "____ can suck my dick..." is a "figure of speech". If you didn't mean that, then say you didn't mean that, but don't say it's a "figure of speech" because we both know it isn't.

BTW, I don't come into these discussions looking for followers, friends, or converts. I voice my opinion and that's it. Some people agree, a lot don't. Such is life. I still consider many people, even those that disagree strongly with me, my friends. The only prerequisite of being a friend in my book is respect, not aggreance. I respect their views, even if they are not the same as mine. But if you disrespect someone, then it's a completely different ball game IMO.

So, if you think I somehow disrespected YOU, let me know and we'll see about that. If I didn't, then you were out of line for coming at me sideways like that.

[Ncturnal]

Fair enough, you're right there. I'm opnionated myself. My apologies for the comment. Post editted.

[Jaimecbr900]

Fair enough, you're right there. I'm opnionated myself. My apologies for the comment. Post editted.


Apology accepted.

My post was edited as well. :goodjob:

[Julio]

man screw all religions. shit is wack....

On the other hand I always wanted to own a Strip club wich design reminds people of a church.

Church and Strips club are in the same business... making money.

[NewGen33]

The 144,000 people are the ones who will be preaching during the tribulation period.

[Kevykev]

Church and Faith can be two different things!

Faith is in your heart.

Try not to base religion solely on the business that a church can be.

[C22H19N3O4]

man screw all religions. shit is wack....

On the other hand I always wanted to own a Strip club wich design reminds people of a church.

Church and Strips club are in the same business... making money.


Julio, were you serious about your uncle? :confused:

[C22H19N3O4]

Useless factoid: did you know that the Salvation Army is actually a religion?


Please elaborate. I know they have some sort of religious affiliation as most charitable organizations, but that does not play a role in the eligibility of volunteers.

[Ncturnal]

Please elaborate. I know they have some sort of religious affiliation as most charitable organizations, but that does not play a role in the eligibility of volunteers.

Ya, they seem to do a good job of keeping volunteering seperate. I read about it a while back. I just Googled and got this page. http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/salvationarmy.html

[Jaimecbr900]

Church and Faith can be two different things!

Faith is in your heart.

Try not to base religion solely on the business that a church can be.

Very well said Kev. Good job. :goodjob: