PDA

View Full Version : Get out of debt



BanginJimmy
10-09-2008, 06:16 PM
Those of you that have a clue as to what is going on in this country, I would like to hear your ideas for getting the country out of debt.

Is the answer just to raise taxes? If so, on whom?
Is the answer just to cut spending? If so, where?
Should there be a combination? If so, how should it work?


My plan:

1. Implement the fairtax. Having such a low corporate tax rate (0%) will draw some of the top corporations in the world to our shores. The US has the best workers in the world, but the tax burden drives away companies at a staggering rate. These corporations would bring new jobs the the US by the thousands.

2. Cut unnecessary spending. Start with foreign aid to countries that dont like us and move from there. Eliminate earmarks and other forms of legal bribery. Subsidies for ethanol can also be eliminated. NO MORE BAILING OUT PRIVATE CORPORATIONS OR COMPANIES. If these corporations are so vital to the US then secure a line of credit to another institution, dont just hand them a blank check.

3. Completely rewrite the rules for medicare certification. About 33B a year is stolen by people who create medical service businesses with the sole purpose of defrauding the govt. Their budget MUST increase for the hiring of thousands of new investigators, but those costs will be made back with the capture of those defrauding the system.

4. Completely rewrite the welfare system. Drug tests MUST be done at least randomly, if not as a mandatory requirement to receive your handout. There MUST be a timelimit on the handouts also. 3 years maximum unless the recipient can prove they are activly going to college. In this case handouts can be extended to 5 years.

5. Complete rewright of the govt contracting process. Just like when Business A contracts with business B to do a job at a price, if a business is in a contract with the govt to supply a good or service, they do it for the agreed upon price. Unlike how it is done today where the company goes over budget, so they just go back to the govt to get more money.

6. Drill here for oil and NG. Build the refineries that are needed to supply the country with the fuel it needs. Build nuke power plants to replace the older, less efficient oil burning plants to further reduce the amount of oil being consumed.


With more research I am sure I can find more places where money can be saved, but these are the most obvious, and most in need of fixing. These changes alone would put a minimum of $200B back into our economy, or go to pay off the national debt.

4dmin
10-09-2008, 06:32 PM
1) raise taxes on those who can afford it 250k (possibly higher 300-500k), no more tax breaks for lower brackets

2) cut spending starting w/ bailouts, earmarks, pork bills, etc

3) STOP the WAR in IRAQ; immediate timeline starting Jan 1 withdraw and add troops in Afghanistan

4) spend money on infrastructure to get the 40% of unemployed construction workers back in the market (ie. bridges, roads, schools, energy grids, etc)

5) tax breaks for companies creating jobs

6) TAX CHURCHES this is a massive crock of shit... tax free making millions :rolleyes:

7) reevaluate welfare, food stamps, medicare, medicad and cut tons of benefits

8) FREE educaton for community/military service

9) everyone on death row gets a bullet in their head

10) lock down our borders and new fast pace green card process

silversol
10-09-2008, 06:38 PM
1) raise taxes on those who can afford it 250k (possibly higher 300-500k), no more tax breaks for lower brackets

2) cut spending starting w/ bailouts, earmarks, pork bills, etc

3) STOP the WAR in IRAQ; immediate timeline starting Jan 1 withdraw and add troops in Afghanistan

4) spend money on infrastructure to get the 40% of unemployed construction workers back in the market (ie. bridges, roads, schools, energy grids, etc)

5) tax breaks for companies creating jobs

6) TAX CHURCHES this is a massive crock of shit... tax free making millions :rolleyes:

7) reevaluate welfare, food stamps, medicare, medicad and cut tons of benefits

8) FREE educaton for community/military service

9) everyone on death row gets a bullet in their head

10) lock down our borders and new fast pace green card process




:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: get AMERICANS back to work! deport the illegals!

dohc4.6sc
10-09-2008, 06:43 PM
1) raise taxes on those who can afford it 250k (possibly higher 300-500k), no more tax breaks for lower brackets

2) cut spending starting w/ bailouts, earmarks, pork bills, etc

3) STOP the WAR in IRAQ; immediate timeline starting Jan 1 withdraw and add troops in Afghanistan

4) spend money on infrastructure to get the 40% of unemployed construction workers back in the market (ie. bridges, roads, schools, energy grids, etc)

5) tax breaks for companies creating jobs

6) TAX CHURCHES this is a massive crock of shit... tax free making millions :rolleyes:

7) reevaluate welfare, food stamps, medicare, medicad and cut tons of benefits

8) FREE educaton for community/military service

9) everyone on death row gets a bullet in their head

10) lock down our borders and new fast pace green card process

i agree with everything except what is bolded. i know we are spending billions staying there but in the end it will be worth it, IMO.

BTW, im in the military.

DrivenMind
10-09-2008, 06:45 PM
1) Even with a low corporate tax corporations still aren't going to come back here when we have that evil little thing called a minimum wage. They simply won't generate the same profit when they have to pay their employees 10-40 times as much as they would over seas. And who says we have the best workers in the world? Us? We have the bitchiest labor force in the world, and rightfully so, we're used to a higher standard of living.

2) Not gonna happen.

3) Sure.

4) Invasion of privacy, and a violation of personal liberties. Who says you can't get high and receive a hand out. The poor are just as entitled to get fucked up on whatever they so choose as the rich are.

5) Start with the military industrial complex.

6) We don't have that much oil here to drill for. We need other sources of renewable energy, and we need to stop allowing the energy companies to control the market.

BanginJimmy
10-09-2008, 07:02 PM
1) Even with a low corporate tax corporations still aren't going to come back here when we have that evil little thing called a minimum wage. They simply won't generate the same profit when they have to pay their employees 10-40 times as much as they would over seas. And who says we have the best workers in the world? Us? We have the bitchiest labor force in the world, and rightfully so, we're used to a higher standard of living.

US workers produce some of the highest quality products in the world. The added protections of the US legal system combined with the world largest economic base will definately bring more companies to the US.



4) Invasion of privacy, and a violation of personal liberties. Who says you can't get high and receive a hand out. The poor are just as entitled to get fucked up on whatever they so choose as the rich are.

If they dont want to take the test that is fine. They just dont get the check.




6) We don't have that much oil here to drill for. We need other sources of renewable energy, and we need to stop allowing the energy companies to control the market.

We have billions of barrells of oil here. There is an estimated 3 TRILLION barrells of shale oil. I agree we need renewable energy, but until we have a viable source we have to use what we have. Nuke for electricity, NG for electricity, and appliances. Leave the oil for the cars and watch the demand go through the floor. I'm sure the price per barell will follow.

ironchef
10-09-2008, 07:22 PM
1) raise taxes on those who can afford it 250k (possibly higher 300-500k), no more tax breaks for lower brackets
What would you accomplish by increasing the taxes on the >$250k tax base? Those people easily have the time/resources to make sure their money is either offshore or invested in such a way that it isn't subject to higher taxes anyway. If anything their taxes should be lowered. Why should they be the ones burdened with paying the highest amount and percentage of the tax revenue, and then increasing it on top of the present amounts?

ironchef
10-09-2008, 07:27 PM
My Plan:

1) Don't give the $700 billion to the fucked up companies on Wall Street.
2) Gather a team of the worlds brightest scientists, give them the $700 billion and have them figure out the alternative energy that will rid our dependence on oil.
3) Instate the FairTax.
4) Get out of Iraq.
5) Get out of everywhere in the world in fact, take back all our people and resources and focus on fixing America first, before being the world's babysitter.
6) Eliminate the two party system. Why have 2 parties that work for 1 person? Makes no sense.
7) Eliminate religion (I wish).
8) Ban Sammich.

4dmin
10-09-2008, 07:30 PM
What would you accomplish by increasing the taxes on the >$250k tax base? Those people easily have the time/resources to make sure their money is either offshore or invested in such a way that it isn't subject to higher taxes anyway. If anything their taxes should be lowered. Why should they be the ones burdened with paying the highest amount and percentage of the tax revenue, and then increasing it on top of the present amounts?

tons of holes in this... how are you going to filter what you make here in the US overseas? if you make 250k salary IRS knows this :thinking:

lowered and explain how this has helped economy (bush tax cuts?)?

um they can afford it plain and simple and w/o it economy will continue to downgrade. your argument is very mute considering bush tax cuts have failed and w/o we can't afford our current status.

dohc4.6sc
10-09-2008, 07:31 PM
My Plan:

1) Don't give the $700 billion to the fucked up companies on Wall Street.
2) Gather a team of the worlds brightest scientists, give them the $700 billion and have them figure out the alternative energy that will rid our dependence on oil.
3) Instate the FairTax.
4) Get out of Iraq.
5) Get out of everywhere in the world in fact, take back all our people and resources and focus on fixing America first, before being the world's babysitter.
6) Eliminate the two party system. Why have 2 parties that work for 1 person? Makes no sense.
7) Eliminate religion (I wish).
8) Ban Sammich.

everyone saying that has not been there. you all just know what media tells you. yes we have spent millions if not billions in iraq, building schools, hospitals, police stations and a government. now why the hell would you stop that investment? just pull out for no reason at all........thats what we should do.:screwy:

4dmin
10-09-2008, 07:32 PM
My Plan:

7) Eliminate religion (I wish).


:cheers:

4dmin
10-09-2008, 07:34 PM
everyone saying that has not been there. you all just know what media tells you. yes we have spent millions if not billions in iraq, building schools, hospitals, police stations and a government. now why the hell would you stop that investment? just pull out for no reason at all........thats what we should do.:screwy:

honestly i dont' care about middle east they have been fighting for 1000s of years and it will continue w/ or w/o our involvement. history has proved this.

dohc4.6sc
10-09-2008, 07:40 PM
honestly i dont' care about middle east they have been fighting for 1000s of years and it will continue w/ or w/o our involvement. history has proved this.

history is just that, history. who is to say we cant change the present?

times werent as evolved and developed as they are now, dude.

ironchef
10-09-2008, 07:40 PM
everyone saying that has not been there. you all just know what media tells you. yes we have spent millions if not billions in iraq, building schools, hospitals, police stations and a government. now why the hell would you stop that investment? just pull out for no reason at all........thats what we should do.:screwy:Because we're making no return on our investment. Iraq has billions in surplus money they're not using to invest in their own country, why should we? Don't get me wrong, the troops have my full support, but the idiots who give them their orders don't.

dohc4.6sc
10-09-2008, 07:44 PM
Because we're making no return on our investment. Iraq has billions in surplus money they're not using to invest in their own country, why should we? Don't get me wrong, the troops have my full support, but the idiots who give them their orders don't.

return in investment = us not getting attacked again. us not losing thousands of american lives again is worth the money. like i said before i am in the military so this may just be a military personals view on this.

4dmin
10-09-2008, 07:52 PM
return in investment = us not getting attacked again. us not losing thousands of american lives again is worth the money. like i said before i am in the military so this may just be a military personals view on this.

not to take this further off topic but iraq will have very little to do w/ us getting attacked on our own soil. 9/11 didn't have anything to do w/ iraq anyway. if you are so concerned you should of read what i posted Afghanistan and Pakistan needs to be our focus

ironchef
10-09-2008, 07:52 PM
Yea because Iraq is the ONLY* place in the world where there's "terrorists". Iraq didn't have any involvement in 9/11.

* sarcasm.

dohc4.6sc
10-09-2008, 07:59 PM
not to take this further off topic but iraq will have very little to do w/ us getting attacked on our own soil. 9/11 didn't have anything to do w/ iraq anyway. if you are so concerned you should of read what i posted Afghanistan and Pakistan needs to be our focus

i am concerned, but i do what this country tells me to do. for some reason its iraq for me every time, i dont bitch and complain i just do what im told to do. and i see shit first hand. maybe thats what you all need to also do, im sorry the liberal media only tels you what they do, but i cant change that. any questionsyou have about iraq please feel free to ask. i garuntee its nothing what you think it is.

Spektrewing386
10-09-2008, 08:09 PM
1. Leave Iraq. I have a Marine friend in Ramadi have met many service men who think staying in Iraq is fucking stupid. Then theres idiots who think that if we get out, it means we loose. Truth is, getting out does not mean "loose" it just means "its over". Plus have you noticed that if we go someplace... we never ever ever leave, except Vietnam. Thats the only place we have ever left. And the Philippines I think.


2. Stop the military industrial complex. Holy crap we spend a majority of our money on it.

3. Leave most of the foreign places that the military is currently operating.

4. Stop taking out loans from other countries.

5. Stop using the fiat money system. In the fiat money system debt and inflation is built in to how our money system works. Creating money out of thin air using interest attached to loans just enhances the problem.

In America debt = money. So its practically impossible to get rid of debt if our fiat money still exists. Thats how it works. Our money is technically worthless except for 1 little clause "it is the confidence people have that they will be able to exchange such money for other financial assets and for real goods and services whenever they choose to do so" the actual # value is based on scarcity of the money.

6.
return in investment = us not getting attacked again
your a complete idiot. iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. At least know what you're fighting for...


7. fairtax, that would be good. Also a message to the people who say cut taxes for wealthy people because the trickle down effect will help people... bullcrap. wealthy people just spend extra money on themselves and only themselvs. This was proven a few days ago with AIG.

BB6dohcvtec
10-09-2008, 08:24 PM
history is just that, history. who is to say we cant change the present?

times werent as evolved and developed as they are now, dude.

Iraq is a lost cause unless we stay there forever and thats not even a possibility. Yea we stay we can declare victory now similar to the desert storm situation and even without saddam there another dictator will emerge and I guarantee in 10 years it will be the same shit all over again, because the Iraqi people don't know any other way and there "government" is a p.o.s.

dohc4.6sc
10-09-2008, 08:27 PM
Iraq is a lost cause unless we stay there forever and thats not even a possibility. Yea we stay we can declare victory now similar to the desert storm situation and even without saddam there another dictator will emerge and I guarantee in 10 years it will be the same shit all over again, because the Iraqi people don't know any other way and there "government" is a p.o.s.
we are building their gov. shit will change if we stay there. IMO.

blaknoize
10-09-2008, 09:04 PM
...I agree we need renewable energy, but until we have a viable source we have to use what we have.

Oil wouldnt have been a viable source if it wasnt marketed right and if gas stations didnt crop up everywhere. The electric car almost had its roots set, but the income was greater for fuel and "easier" than creating a network of recharge stations.

If I'm correct anyway, as I'm dated sometimes.

JTImport
10-09-2008, 09:08 PM
1. Dead wrong about the religion thing! If anything we need more of it, as in churches getting more involved in supporting their communities. We should not depend of the government to take care of our needy. If the church did their job there would be no welfare system!


2. We should OWN Iraqi, or at the very least get oil from them at an extremely low rate! Around $10 a barrel would be about right!

3. Have an across the board sales tax of 25% and eliminate all other taxes! This would not only cover all the illeagle immigrants and under the table non tax paying citizens but it would also eliminate a huge part of the government. Tax assessors, most of the IRS and the like.

4. Get all the auto manufactures together and tell them they have 2 years to come up with a renewable fuels vehicle that costs under $20k and seats 4 and that only costs a $1 per gallon of "fuel". Tell them the first company to do so will have to share the technology with the other manufactures but only in the US. In return the company would get a royalty for the tech and an exemption from any form of tax for the life of the company!

:2cents:

BanginJimmy
10-09-2008, 09:28 PM
3. Have an across the board sales tax of 25% and eliminate all other taxes! This would not only cover all the illeagle immigrants and under the table non tax paying citizens but it would also eliminate a huge part of the government. Tax assessors, most of the IRS and the like.

you are basicly talking about the fairtax. Read up on it, it really is a very well researched plan.


4. Get all the auto manufactures together and tell them they have 2 years to come up with a renewable fuels vehicle that costs under $20k and seats 4 and that only costs a $1 per gallon of "fuel". Tell them the first company to do so will have to share the technology with the other manufactures but only in the US. In return the company would get a royalty for the tech and an exemption from any form of tax for the life of the company!

I have heard some dumb ideas in my day but this one takes the cake. You do know about a thing called reverse engineering right? If this great vehicle ever hit the road it would be bought by every manufacturer in the world and torn down to the last bolt to see how it worked, then copied. All this would take place within the first 6 months of its release.

BanginJimmy
10-09-2008, 09:31 PM
Oil wouldnt have been a viable source if it wasnt marketed right and if gas stations didnt crop up everywhere. The electric car almost had its roots set, but the income was greater for fuel and "easier" than creating a network of recharge stations.

Electric has its possibilities, but first they need a battery with the ability to travel hundreds of miles on a single charge, then be able to recharge in <6 hours. When you look at todays battery technology in hybrids, the batteries are only good for about 3 years of everyday use and then you are stuck with a 3-5k replacement bill.

I think the next breakthrough will come with hydrogen.

BB6dohcvtec
10-09-2008, 09:58 PM
we are building their gov. shit will change if we stay there. IMO.

oh really, they can't even sit and discuss issues without getting in full out fights and then leaving. we are doing a great job at building their government. How long have we been working on this again?

Crazy Asian
10-09-2008, 10:02 PM
My Plan:

1) Don't give the $700 billion to the fucked up companies on Wall Street.
2) Gather a team of the worlds brightest scientists, give them the $700 billion and have them figure out the alternative energy that will rid our dependence on oil.
3) Instate the FairTax.
4) Get out of Iraq.
5) Get out of everywhere in the world in fact, take back all our people and resources and focus on fixing America first, before being the world's babysitter.
6) Eliminate the two party system. Why have 2 parties that work for 1 person? Makes no sense.
7) Eliminate religion (I wish).
8) Ban Sammich.

HAHAHAHAHAH LOLOLOL

Spektrewing386
10-09-2008, 10:12 PM
2 years to develope a revolutionary vehicle? lol take more than 2 years to just develope a normal car.

plus in Iran a long way back we built a government for them so we could fill their country with our oil corporations, but somehow that government turned into a dictatorship and the iranian revolution happened. Also the leader we put into Iraq was voted out of office by the Iraqi people. So doing the whole government thing doesnt really work out.

rrutter81
10-09-2008, 10:21 PM
start for scratch with new politicians/programs would be a start. Government is too bloated and big to get anything done within 1 presidential period let alone 2 years.

JTImport
10-10-2008, 07:16 AM
I have heard some dumb ideas in my day but this one takes the cake. You do know about a thing called reverse engineering right? If this great vehicle ever hit the road it would be bought by every manufacturer in the world and torn down to the last bolt to see how it worked, then copied. All this would take place within the first 6 months of its release.

Why is this a dumb idea?? So the entire world becomes less oil dependent in turn driving the cost of oil down (supply and demand) for the people who will still be driving oil consuming vehicles and we have less pollution in our air! Heck China would be a great place for such a vehicle! God knows they need cleaner air!

So I guess lower oil prices and cleaner air world wide is dumb!! :rolleyes:

JTImport
10-10-2008, 07:28 AM
2 years to develope a revolutionary vehicle? lol take more than 2 years to just develope a normal car.



This right here is the biggest problem with this country! Why do today what we can put off till tomorrow!!

I do agree with you it does take auto manufactures YEARS to do anything.

We as a country should be treating the oil situation as a wake up call! We are the greatest country in the world with some of the best minds! We should be able to do this without batting an eye!

silversol
10-10-2008, 08:02 AM
get rid of the bush tax cuts they were supost to be temporary it the first place anyway. plus we see how cutting taxes on the wealth anyway worked the past 7 years! put the taxes back where they were pre bush! this is where rebublicans get off saying obama is going to raise taxes when he is not!

AND WE NEED TO TAX THE EVER LIVING SHIT OUT IF IMPORTS AND EXPORTS! i know i will catch hell for that last sentence but ask your self what do you import and export? who gets rich off of them? walmart for example? we use to be the top producing country in the world now we just cut jobs and import stuff for pennys on the dollar. so the rich get richer the poor as in 99% of you on this forum get poorer!

Spektrewing386
10-10-2008, 08:25 AM
This right here is the biggest problem with this country! Why do today what we can put off till tomorrow!!

I do agree with you it does take auto manufactures YEARS to do anything.

We as a country should be treating the oil situation as a wake up call! We are the greatest country in the world with some of the best minds! We should be able to do this without batting an eye!


you just cant snap your fingers and have a newly designed car, it doesnt work that way. it takes them years to do anything because its a car, not a happy meal toy.

And sorry to say, but every country thinks its the "greatest" country in the world. Its that idea of american supremacy idealism that gets us into trouble and pisses the world off. Also, no one can built a revolutionary car so fast "without batting an eye". thats stupid

JTImport
10-10-2008, 09:14 AM
you just cant snap your fingers and have a newly designed car, it doesnt work that way. it takes them years to do anything because its a car, not a happy meal toy.

And sorry to say, but every country thinks its the "greatest" country in the world. Its that idea of american supremacy idealism that gets us into trouble and pisses the world off. Also, no one can built a revolutionary car so fast "without batting an eye". thats stupid

While not world changing,
"Pushing the concept of small and low-cost to the extreme, a British design house recently unveiled a minicar that is about one-third smaller than the diminutive Daimler Smart ForTwo. Last week, Gordon Murray Design's T.25 was unveiled—well, at least in the form of a napkin sketch. The product's goal is to deliver up to 75 mile-per-gallon fuel economy along with the capability of obtaining 80 miles per hour on a freeway. Details are a bit thin at this stage, but Gordon Murray Design is shopping around its plans to auto companies in hopes of finding a company willing to license and build the car—according to Mohr Davidow Ventures, the Silicon Valley venture capital company providing the key financial backing. They estimate that the initial car—and other variations in the works—could be in production as early as 2011 or 12."




This is one small design team not an entire nation! So yes I do think it is possible.



I'm sure that every country in the world does think that they are. Having spent time in at least 10 different countries myself, I can say that from my experience the USA IS the best country in the world!



It’s the country my forefathers died for and if need be I would die for.



If you think not then you might need to move to the country you think is! After all if you’re not happy you are free to do so! Just another perk we take for granted here in the US! Can’t say that about a lot of other countries in the world. Heck come to think about it, IF you can say that about another country the US is more then likely the reason! Just more proof that we are the best!!


;)

BanginJimmy
10-10-2008, 10:40 AM
AND WE NEED TO TAX THE EVER LIVING SHIT OUT IF IMPORTS AND EXPORTS!


Adding taxes wont do a thing to get us out of debt without cutting spending.



As for as taxing exports, that it laughable. You think that the way to bring in revenue is to make American made products LESS competitive overseas? The only thing this will do is cause American companies to cut jobs and benefits so they can keep prices at their current level.

silversol
10-10-2008, 10:44 AM
Adding taxes wont do a thing to get us out of debt without cutting spending.



As for as taxing exports, that it laughable. You think that the way to bring in revenue is to make American made products LESS competitive overseas? The only thing this will do is cause American companies to cut jobs and benefits so they can keep prices at their current level.


your dreaming. how are you going to save your way out of a recssion?

BanginJimmy
10-10-2008, 10:52 AM
While not world changing,
"Pushing the concept of small and low-cost to the extreme, a British design house recently unveiled a minicar that is about one-third smaller than the diminutive Daimler Smart ForTwo. Last week, Gordon Murray Design's T.25 was unveiled—well, at least in the form of a napkin sketch. The product's goal is to deliver up to 75 mile-per-gallon fuel economy along with the capability of obtaining 80 miles per hour on a freeway. Details are a bit thin at this stage, but Gordon Murray Design is shopping around its plans to auto companies in hopes of finding a company willing to license and build the car—according to Mohr Davidow Ventures, the Silicon Valley venture capital company providing the key financial backing. They estimate that the initial car—and other variations in the works—could be in production as early as 2011 or 12."




This is one small design team not an entire nation! So yes I do think it is possible.



I'm sure that every country in the world does think that they are. Having spent time in at least 10 different countries myself, I can say that from my experience the USA IS the best country in the world!



It’s the country my forefathers died for and if need be I would die for.



If you think not then you might need to move to the country you think is! After all if you’re not happy you are free to do so! Just another perk we take for granted here in the US! Can’t say that about a lot of other countries in the world. Heck come to think about it, IF you can say that about another country the US is more then likely the reason! Just more proof that we are the best!!


;)


1 thing you forget to mention about all these cars, they are increadibly small and dangerous in an accident. They also cannot be used for anything except back and forth to grandmas house. You cant even get the damn groceries in one of them, not to mention hauling anything.

bigdare23
10-10-2008, 10:52 AM
6) We don't have that much oil here to drill for. We need other sources of renewable energy, and we need to stop allowing the energy companies to control the market.

We have plenty of oil here. It's just not in the typical form they are used to (or want to deal with). I can't think of the name of this crude oil, but to make useful it would take a lot of refinement, which in return cost money. Higher cost, means lower profits, so the oil companies aren't interested. So it's here, but not "useful." (The only reason I know this is because I'm a dual degree student and I was orginally going to UT for a B.S. in petroleum engineering).

BanginJimmy
10-10-2008, 10:53 AM
your dreaming. how are you going to save your way out of a recssion?

I addressed that in my first post.

Daveparts
10-10-2008, 11:10 AM
Several Years ago as a resident of Gwinnett County Georgia I had as my state Representative John Linder (R) He had developed this off the wall plan, and he saw himself as a sort of Luke Skywalker and he was out to destroy the evil empire. His plan was to blow up the IRS death star! “But how master Luke they are too powerful?” His daring plan was to fly his X wing fighter to Washington and destroy the IRS with the “force” of a flat tax.

But young Linder was naïve, he couldn’t understand why the peasants wouldn’t rise up and join his quest. Then it came to him it’s not the plan they don’t like it’s the name of the plan they don’t like and he relaunched his plan into the heavens as the fair tax! Who wouldn’t support fair? How could you protest and say give me unfair or give me death!
But young Luke still had much to learn being a back water Congressman in the resistance he joined forces with Neal Boortz (rhymes with dorks) a sawdust Rush Limbaugh conservative talk show host who would become young Linder’s Jabba the Hut.

Together with crayons and paper they wrote out their manifesto, it begins with “When Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto,” Well that’s all I need to hear if the communists like the old system I’m agin it! I wonder what Karl Marx thought about puppies and birthday parties for small children? The problem Luke and Jabba explained, wasn’t with taxes the problem was the IRS. Kind of like the problem isn’t the traffic lights and stops signs the problems is the cops! Loaded with such logic they set out to destroy the IRS death star and as you are aware in America you can sell almost anything.

Well we live in a funny country America we have this desire for new and are willing try anything new because we hate anything old. Old buildings, old people, old policies we will try even the most obviously stupid plan if we label it new. If I sold a million pet rocks and the sales begin to slump we’d then repackage them as New! And improved pet rocks.

Perhaps you don’t think the pet rock analogy is very fair, that means then perhaps you probably haven’t read their book or booklet. All the troubles of the world will just melt away simply with a 23% sales tax! Life will be wonderful everyday a sunny day Jews and Arabs will dance together in the streets. You see, they want to make America’s tax code truly voluntary! Why that’s perfectly fair, that’s voluntary and who could be against that? In fact that’s such a good idea lets make utility bills voluntary too! Taxes are used to pay the bills of government your not visiting a museum where they ask for a donation but maybe I’m just unfair and I should give it a chance.

They want replace today’s indecipherable tax code with a simple sales tax, let me say thank you mister, why last year there I was trying to figure out the depreciation amounts on my overseas investments when I got word of a fire in my condo in Aspen. Oh it was terrible what could I do? All these taxes to do a fire to deal with and I was scheduled to be back to work at Burger King in the morning, Say, that flat tax sounds like a great idea! Why instead of all those complicated deductions I could keep the whole two hundred dollars a week wow!

I got so excited I went out to by a new Mustang, right at thirty grand but then the sales man explained with the new flat tax the purchase price would now be thirty eight thousand nine hundred dollars. An extra nine thousand dollars, so what, I get to keep the whole two hundred from my paycheck. The salesman explained with nothing down and zero percent financing my payments would be five hundred dollars a month. I said “Let her roll big daddy I’m bringing home two hundred skins a week now!” Then he interrupted me saying if I financed the sales tax over five years my payments would be six hundred and forty eight dollars a month.

I was disappointed as I left the dealership I really wanted that car, the salesman seemed equally disappointed too, apparently I wasn’t the only one to discover the pitfalls of new wealth in a voluntary tax system. So I climbed in my old heap and went to get lunch but as I passed the gas station my jaw dropped where the price had been $2.19 yesterday today was $2.79 with the new sales tax. Fifty cents a gallon on a ten gallon fill up but that’s only twenty bucks a month and after all I’m rich now. I went down to clown burger and ordered a Mcfat and sloppy combo and the guy tells me “That will be $6.81” What? It was $4.95 yesterday? He pointed to a picture of a smiling clown holding a banner that read; don’t blame us you wanted it fair!

So as I sat there eating my combo and it occurred to me that now that I was rich I had better start spending my money wisely. I would follow the American dream and purchase a home that would be a great investment plus I’d get a tax deduction, no wait no I wouldn’t not any more but hey what do I care I’m rich! So I found this nice place and offered them one 120 grand and they accepted but much to my surprise the final price of the home would be 156 thousand. Boy that threw a kink in the machine with the sales tax I would have to finance 36 thousand dollars at 7.5% interest for thirty years. That’s 20 thousand dollars interest just to finance the sales tax on my dream home. Well yes, the banker explained perhaps you could pay with cash?

Heck I’m rich now I exclaimed but I’m not that rich, I went home crest fallen here I was rich yet I couldn’t afford anything under this voluntary tax system! When I got home my mailbox was full of bills I can pay these at least, but they all had a new box on the invoices marked sales tax you see I was voluntarily purchasing electricity and water and natural gas and cable TV and a cell phone. I’ll be lucky if I have enough left to eat on I thought, I took my last hundred bucks to Kroger and bought the whole hundred dollars worth the cashier rang it up $131.00 Huh? I asked, how do you figure that? “A hundred dollars worth of groceries $23.00 Federal sales tax $8.00 dollars state sales tax” “But wait I thought the fair tax would get rid of state taxes!” He looked at me puzzled and asked, “Are you on drugs how could the feds and the state work together on something like that?”

And then It dawned on me I spend 100% of what I make voluntarily just trying to stay alive. I wonder what percentage of their incomes Bill Gates or Oprah or Dick Cheney pay just to stay alive? So I wondered what is going to happen to the economy if everything is taxed at 23% how will we survive?

Well to my relief none of my stock and bonds would be taxed and my parent’s estate tax would be done away with had it been over a quarter of a million dollars. And corporate income taxes would be done away with as well as the taxes on my dividends check and the gift tax would be eliminated! To me being a layman not having the wisdom of Jabba the Hut Boortz or Luke Skywalker Linder it seems they’ve eliminated the death tax and replaced it with the life tax if you work to stay alive you pay it. Maybe a better name would be the Paris Hilton tax relief act if you were Paris Hilton this program is the greatest idea since the coke spoon but if you work for a living and voluntarily spend 100% of it trying to stay alive this is the worst idea since jalapeno hemorrhoid cream and as strange as it might seems I find myself pulling for Darth Vader.

Then as I realized I had gone over to the dark side it occurred to me Luke and Company destroyed the death star of the IRS, who was going to collect all these taxes from all these voluntary tax payers the home purchasers utilities companies and the new car dealers? What address do they put on the envelope? What if there is a discrepancy? Will the money just magically appear in congressional coffers like direct deposit? Or will it have to be handled by my state revenue department? And won’t my state departments have to employ more workers and need to raise taxes to pay for it? I wonder how they will like that idea? It doesn’t sound very voluntary for them as they do the work for Uncle Sam, Gratis!

But what about the poor? Luke, won’t the poor suffer? “Of course not, they can file for a refund at the end of the year for any taxes they might have overpaid. But Luke who do they apply to? You blew up the IRS death star! And isn’t that the system we’ve got now less the deductions and benefits? He asked if I was a communist or something because Karl Marx liked the old system, then I asked, Luke it will cost the poor thousands of dollars how will they pay until they can apply for their refund from the agency that doesn’t exist anymore? But Luke said, I cannot answer any more of your questions I have other worlds to destroy!

BanginJimmy
10-10-2008, 11:23 AM
But young Linder was naïve, he couldn’t understand why the peasants wouldn’t rise up and join his quest. Then it came to him it’s not the plan they don’t like it’s the name of the plan they don’t like and he relaunched his plan into the heavens as the fair tax!

Linder had no hand in developing the fairtax. He was just one of the original sponsors in the congress for the plan.

silversol
10-10-2008, 11:30 AM
Linder had no hand in developing the fairtax. He was just one of the original sponsors in the congress for the plan.
then why is is name on the fair tax book as "author" next to neal boortz? daveparts+1

Spektrewing386
10-10-2008, 11:39 AM
could be in production as early as 2011 or 12."


This is one small design team not an entire nation! So yes I do think it is possible.



Actually, you just helped reenforce my point, not counter it. 2012 is 4 years away, and its a possibility, not definite. Thank you for reenforcing my point.

JTImport
10-10-2008, 01:56 PM
Actually, you just helped reenforce my point, not counter it. 2012 is 4 years away, and its a possibility, not definite. Thank you for reenforcing my point.

Point??? If your point was for a SMALL design team! If they can do it in 4 years our entire country should be able to do it in two!

You know if people would quit thinking it took so long to do anything the country would be a better place!

Let me guess, you must work for the government??

Spektrewing386
10-10-2008, 02:42 PM
uh, no i dont work for the government. im an engineering student.



Also, truth is, if there was no debt, there would be absolutley no money. that is the way our fractional reserve fiat money system works.