FACT: Obama Cannot Cut Taxes for 95% of Americans

[JConner]

Today boortz.com has a great link to a (suprisingly) great CNBC page.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/fact_obama_cannot_cut_taxes_for_95_of_americans/

"One thing the McCain campaign is not attacking nearly hard enough is Obama’s “tax cut for 95% of Americans” nonsense. There was a good discussion of it today on CNBC:

Remember that some 47% of Americans have no income tax burden. In order for Obama to give those Americans a “tax cut” he must literally write them a check from the government. A check that’s only going to be in the mail once, at that.

That’s not a tax cut. You can’t cut taxes for people who don’t pay them. If you want to cut taxes you must cut them for people who actually pay them. And, frankly, that means Americans at the top of the income brackets who pay the most in taxes.

But that would mean “tax cuts for the rich,” which doesn’t fit in at all with Obama’s wealth redistribution rhetoric. "


FINALLY someone other than FOX news points out something wrong with Obama's ideas. In the video on that link they also point out how the numbers just dont add up. He wants to create all of these government programs that require more money but, give tax cuts to "95%" of the people.

[willum14pb]

Outstanding.. What i've been saying all along. He's trying to appeal to the masses with lies. Typical government official.

[Deke]

47% of Americans don't pay income tax?

[BanginJimmy]

47% of Americans don't pay income tax?

They have no tax burden, this means they get back all of the money they pay in income tax. Dont get SS and medicare taxes mixed with income taxes. Those taxes are on top of your income tax.

[Total_Blender]

They have no tax burden, this means they get back all of the money they pay in income tax. .

Who are these people? I'd like to be one. I have always had a tax burden.

I have always heard him say "95% of working Americans" so maybe there's just some confusion in syntax?

[4dmin]

95% would be correct if it is 95% of americans paying taxes... upper 5% make more then 250k a year

[Alan®]

Who are these people? I'd like to be one. I have always had a tax burden.

I have always heard him say "95% of working Americans" so maybe there's just some confusion in syntax?
That's another stupid term. "Working americans"

[tony]

95% would be correct if it is 95% of americans paying taxes... upper 5% make more then 250k a year


lol I was just about to say this, another biased post :rolleyes: (No suprise) without even checking facts.


Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.

95% of workers not Americans, there is a difference. Listening to talking points and posting them as facts make YOU look stupid for not researching and/or lacking the ability to form an argument on your own.

[bigdare23]

LOL

Once again, An Obama hater makes a fool of themselves.

[Vteckidd]

95% of workers not Americans, there is a difference. Listening to talking points and posting them as facts make YOU look stupid for not researching and/or lacking the ability to form an argument on your own.

WRONG


At the presidential debate in Oxford, Miss., Barack Obama described his tax plan and said, "Here's what I can tell the American people: 95 percent of you will get a tax cut.



But Obama stretched things when he said that 95 percent of "you" — everyone — would receive a tax cut.


Lets not spin it the way you want it. Now its 95% of WORKING americans LOL are you guys serious? and you call US biased

[Vteckidd]

I can go spend 10 minutes pulling over 20 Youtube videos and DIRECT quotes of Obama saying "95% OF ALL AMERICANS"

now when its found out that he cannot possible do it, its "95% of working families"

but you know i dont expect anything different from him, says one things then means another.

I mean if we had any kind of RECORD to go off it would be nice, but all hes done is get one job, and go after another.

[Vteckidd]

i love how at the debate hes sitting there saying " We have to drill for more oil"

even though he was one of the most ADAMANT NEY SAYERS AGAINST DRILLING 6 months ago!

I mean can we believe ANYTHING he says?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fkbEuCQss

Another sudden switch and another major slide toward the center by Democratic Sen. Barack Obama.

He told a Florida newspaper today he is NOT against ALL offshore drilling for new oil resources. Switching from his previous blanket oppostion to expanded offshore drilling, Obama tells the Palm Beach Post he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to avoid a gridlock over energy policy.

[4dmin]

^ i dont' think its spin if all of us assume he was talking about 95% of people who pay taxes...

your putting spin on who is/isn't... assumption up to this post even by all of you was 95% of those who are paying taxes this was even included by chart comparision used in many threads in this forum. if he wants to give checks to people who don't pay then obviously many would disagree w/ this. i know i would. but you need to take it from the source... the guy in the vid calls them "welfare checks"... funny did any of you call your "stimulus check" a welfare check? b/c that is what the guy said they were.

i listen to sqawk box on the way to work i heard this a day or two ago... the guy on the vid was pretty one sided in most of the commentary they even cut him off later b/c he rambling on about other shit about ex employees of nbc

[Vteckidd]

i didnt get a stimulus check

Look theres a difference between helping people out, and giving lazy people everything the "rich has"

Again, taxing is about RAISING REVENUE, not REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH.

[bigdare23]

When you're against someone, you're willing to take anything out of contents to help your cause. {shakes head}

How the hell do you give someone a tax cut that doesn't pay taxes? Lets see, you pay $0 taxes a year and you get a 5% tax break on your taxes.

0*0.05=............................0

[Vteckidd]

i dont know ask Obama that. he wants to give people money that dont pay any taxes or almost NO taxes.

He wants to take the exorbarant amount of taxes the "rich" already pay and give that to the "middle" class

[bigdare23]

giving lazy people everything the "rich has"



So raising taxes on the rich going to take everything from them now?

[4dmin]

i didnt get a stimulus check

Look theres a difference between helping people out, and giving lazy people everything the "rich has"

Again, taxing is about RAISING REVENUE, not REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH.

again your comments are spin not facts... there is no proof on anything that has been brought up before he is going to give WELFARE checks to 95% of americans... 95% of who pays taxes is correct b/c upper 5% make more than 250k.

if it was give checks to people who don't pay taxes then most of america wouldn't support it. this isn't the case.

[4dmin]

i dont know ask Obama that. he wants to give people money that dont pay any taxes or almost NO taxes.

He wants to take the exorbarant amount of taxes the "rich" already pay and give that to the "middle" class

mike you make your self sound like the biggest ELITEST! there is nothing wrong w/ higher tax brackets paying more in taxes. the majority of consumers are make under 250k, most small business make under 250k, and most people make under 250k... whats wrong with giving them more to spend? a strong consumer economy makes for strong economy.

i'm sorry but reality is taxes are unfair to begin with... you can't get blood from a turnip.

[Vteckidd]

So raising taxes on the rich going to take everything from them now?
what do you call redistribution of wealth?

Look lets keep it simple.

Lets say you make $20,000 a year. You pay $1000 a year in TAXES

Lets say i make $200,000 a year. I pay $20,000 a year in TAXES


Now should we lower your taxes down to $300 a year an raise mine to $75,000 a year? can you sit here an tell me that makes sense ?

Why should YOU get more money back and lower taxes than ME. I PAY MORE.

Now Tony can come in here and try to skew the issue an talk about real wages, and that the $300 tax burden is more than mine cause i sitll have $125,000 left over , yada, yada, yada

what it comes down to is this, the RICH like it or not, CREATE jobs. Im sorry but how many of you under $50,000 a year, $100k a year are CREATING JOBS for OTHER AMERICANS.

I bet almost no one on this board does. SO how do you expect for the economy to grow, if there is no JOBS BEING CREATED>

Now lets say my $200,000 a year in income is based upon my small 5 person small business. My tax liability just increased $55,000 PER YEAR. SO i went from making $180,000 a year to making $125,000 per year. Thats a HUGE DROP. What am i going to do with that loss? prob not spend alot, not invest in my infrastructure, not expand an hire new people, wont buy equipment, wont contribute.

What are you going to do with your $600 in taxes you saved?

See my point.

Your $600 savings is not going to TOUCH my $55000 in money i LOST.

Just watch i mean im saving all these threads, its going to be the biggest I TOLD YOU SO in history

[tony]

WRONG





Lets not spin it the way you want it. Now its 95% of WORKING americans LOL are you guys serious? and you call US biased

Thats not spin, that was direct from Obama's plan on his website.

[Vteckidd]

Sorry he shouldnt change his mind, and website, 6 times a month to explain what hes trying to do

[tony]

what do you call redistribution of wealth?

Look lets keep it simple.

Lets say you make $20,000 a year. You pay $1000 a year in TAXES

Lets say i make $200,000 a year. I pay $20,000 a year in TAXES




You and I both know that is not how income is currently taxed.. that would assume there is a flat tax.

[4dmin]

what it comes down to is this, the RICH like it or not, CREATE jobs. Im sorry but how many of you under $50,000 a year, $100k a year are CREATING JOBS for OTHER AMERICANS.

I bet almost no one on this board does. SO how do you expect for the economy to grow, if there is no JOBS BEING CREATED>


majority of small businesses make under 250k so where are these new jobs being created? b/c under bush tax cuts they haven't made any dent in our economy.



20k at 15% tax = 3000 in taxes = 17k bring home
200k at 33% tax = 66000 in taxes = 134k bring home

i'm just wondering why you think they need to be paying the same in taxes... so the guy who wants to create jobs thinks he should be taxed the same as the 9$ an hour employee he employees :thinking: com'on.

[Vteckidd]

majority of small businesses make under 250k so where are these new jobs being created? b/c under bush tax cuts they haven't made any dent in our economy.



20k at 15% tax = 3000 in taxes = 17k bring home
200k at 33% tax = 66000 in taxes = 134k bring home

i'm just wondering why you think they need to be paying the same in taxes... so the guy who wants to create jobs thinks he should be taxed the same as the 9$ an hour employee he employees :thinking: com'on.
YOU MISS THE POINT AGAIN

LOOK AT YOUR NUMBERS, the RICH PAY $66,000 in TAXES. WHY WOULD YOU RAISE HIS TAXES! HES PAYING ENOUGH ALREADY! WHY WOULD YOU LOWER the $20,000 guy an RAISE the 200k guy?

MAKES NO SENSE.

My father is not happy but is willing to pay $48,000 a year in taxes. he is NOT willing to pay $75,000 a year

[Vteckidd]

LAST POST IN THIS THREAD

LAST POST

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every
day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement.


One day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good
customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce
the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. What
happens to the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide
the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They
realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody’s share,
then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to
drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to
reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to
work out the amounts each should pay..


And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’
‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar,
too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’
‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’
‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.


The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important.
They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[Alan®]

majority of small businesses make under 250k so where are these new jobs being created? b/c under bush tax cuts they haven't made any dent in our economy.
The average has been anywhere between $230-260.And that doesn't account for removing the cap on social security, the hike on payroll tax, I could go on.

[4dmin]

The average has been anywhere between $230-260.And that doesn't account for removing the cap on social security, the hike on payroll tax, I could go on.

avg or not majority are under 250k this is a fact. but back to mike... it comes down to cost of living...

how much does a gallon of milk cost guy who makes 20k a year vs. guy who makes 200k? so lets make everyone pay the same in taxes... are we going to make them all pay the same for goods? hell no!

that same gallon of milk if equal would cost:

20k a year = 4$ gallon of milk

200k a year = 15$ gallon of milk

[Dirty Octopus™]

hmm... thats crazy cuz i make no where near 250k and i pay taxes. and i DO NOT get back all that ive paid in taxes every year :thinking:

[Vteckidd]

avg or not majority are under 250k this is a fact. but back to mike... it comes down to cost of living...

how much does a gallon of milk cost guy who makes 20k a year vs. guy who makes 200k? so lets make everyone pay the same in taxes... are we going to make them all pay the same for goods? hell no!

that same gallon of milk if equal would cost:

20k a year = 4$ gallon of milk

200k a year = 15$ gallon of milk
STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH

WHO SAID THE SAME? I NEVER SAID that WE SHOULD ALL PAY THE SAME TAXES

CHrist almighty its like arguing with a brick wall, you JUST DONT GET IT.

In case you havent noticed, We are talking about RAISING TAXES ON THE RICH, and LOWERING TAXES on the POOR. WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MAKING THE RICH PAY THE SAME AS THE POOR?

PLEASE REREAD ALL THAT I HAVE TYPED i dont have time to site here an spell it out 17 times

[4dmin]

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH

WHO SAID THE SAME? I NEVER SAID that WE SHOULD ALL PAY THE SAME TAXES

CHrist almighty its like arguing with a brick wall, you JUST DONT GET IT.

In case you havent noticed, We are talking about RAISING TAXES ON THE RICH, and LOWERING TAXES on the POOR. WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MAKING THE RICH PAY THE SAME AS THE POOR?

PLEASE REREAD ALL THAT I HAVE TYPED i dont have time to site here an spell it out 17 times

ok so you are fine if they raise taxes on everyone but not just the rich and you are also fine if they lower taxes on everyone including the rich? i assume you by those standards you think equal is better

[Alan®]

avg or not majority are under 250k this is a fact. but back to mike... it comes down to cost of living...

how much does a gallon of milk cost guy who makes 20k a year vs. guy who makes 200k? so lets make everyone pay the same in taxes... are we going to make them all pay the same for goods? hell no!

that same gallon of milk if equal would cost:

20k a year = 4$ gallon of milk

200k a year = 15$ gallon of milk
Sorry you're line of thinking still doesn't warrant what Obama wants to do. By you're logic what Obama wants to do is cut taxes for 95% of people to basically give them a cost of living raise and he's going to pay for it by taxing the top 5%. Sorry I don't agree with that.

[tony]

hmm... thats crazy cuz i make no where near 250k and i pay taxes. and i DO NOT get back all that ive paid in taxes every year :thinking:

Thats because you're lazy and worthless since you're not wealthy.

[B18c1Turboed]

I wonder if he does cut taxes, can we back date it? i still owe alot from last year!!

[bigdare23]

what do you call redistribution of wealth?

Look lets keep it simple.

Lets say you make $20,000 a year. You pay $1000 a year in TAXES

Lets say i make $200,000 a year. I pay $20,000 a year in TAXES


Now should we lower your taxes down to $300 a year an raise mine to $75,000 a year? can you sit here an tell me that makes sense ?

Why should YOU get more money back and lower taxes than ME. I PAY MORE.

Now Tony can come in here and try to skew the issue an talk about real wages, and that the $300 tax burden is more than mine cause i sitll have $125,000 left over , yada, yada, yada

what it comes down to is this, the RICH like it or not, CREATE jobs. Im sorry but how many of you under $50,000 a year, $100k a year are CREATING JOBS for OTHER AMERICANS.

I bet almost no one on this board does. SO how do you expect for the economy to grow, if there is no JOBS BEING CREATED>

Now lets say my $200,000 a year in income is based upon my small 5 person small business. My tax liability just increased $55,000 PER YEAR. SO i went from making $180,000 a year to making $125,000 per year. Thats a HUGE DROP. What am i going to do with that loss? prob not spend alot, not invest in my infrastructure, not expand an hire new people, wont buy equipment, wont contribute.

What are you going to do with your $600 in taxes you saved?

See my point.

Your $600 savings is not going to TOUCH my $55000 in money i LOST.

Just watch i mean im saving all these threads, its going to be the biggest I TOLD YOU SO in history


Why does everyone "assume" giving tax breaks to the rich going to actually increase jobs?!? Could it? Maybe. Would it? Highly doubt it. Why? Because bitches are GREEDY!!!!!!! That reduction in taxes for the rich is going toward improvements in technology (which in return going to reduce jobs by replacing people with equipment) and profits. If they do increase jobs it’s not going to be for the lower level, non-educated people who actually going to need one. Companies aren’t going to hire anymore janitors, customer service reps, and sales people. It's going to go to a person like me, a future engineering who doesn't have to look for a job in the first place because everyone and their mother is trying to recruit them. Why? Because of fucking profit! They’re going to hire well educated people, give them $50-$75K only to try to make billions off them. The people that need the money and jobs aren't going to qualified, so they are going to get overlooked once again. The higher class is going to continue to distance themselves from everyone else, while that person who works fast food is still going to make minimal wage and struggle while everything around them goes up.

Our economy is fucked up, we as nation is way over our heads in debts. No one likes taxes, but what are you suppose to do with the government's revenues going down. The government must get money from some where. I got an idea, how about we increase taxes on the poor and middle class. (Not saying McCain is trying to tax the poor, Mike) Wrong because, they barely have enough money to get by as it. :rolleyes: Where the hell are we suppose to get the funds for our government, from the people struggling or the people with boats, lambos, vacation homes, and shit? The damn rich people! Is it fair? Nope, but it's not fair for someone to go hungry while spoiled people waste shit everyday. I giggle every time someone says Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth :D If trying to improve our way of life, help less fortunate people out, providing healthcare to people who can't afford to see a doctor because of the choice they did (or did not) make is "redistribution of wealth, I guess I'm all for it 100%. I'm all about helping others (if I have it). Rich people have it. Raise taxes on rich people; they are still going to have it (money). I highly doubt a person making at least $250k is going to go hungry because of taxes. I doubt that same person making at least $250k lifestyle going to change because taxes.

[4dmin]

Sorry you're line of thinking still doesn't warrant what Obama wants to do. By you're logic what Obama wants to do is cut taxes for 95% of people to basically give them a cost of living raise and he's going to pay for it by taxing the top 5%. Sorry I don't agree with that.

well obviously many of you failed economics and fundamentals of our economy. we are a consumer based economy if 95% of the population has more money to spend then the upper bracket makes more money. if you make under 250k a year the % of people who would be sitting on this tax break is probably 1% or less. majority of these people would spend their tax break on every day shit like energy, food, school, etc which in return falls right back in the pockets of the rich.

i'm sorry but i would rather save majority of people money who would be buying my goods then saving me on my personal income b/c the money i make coming through my business door is how i live on not how much i pay in taxes.

[B18c1Turboed]

U know i think raising the taxes on the rich, is just gonna make them do some illegal stuff. After talking too are accountant,he told me we could hire another employee and bring are income too under that amount, to offset the raise in taxes if that happens!!

There will be ways around it, and ill bet you money everyone will find those ways.Well the rich/small business owners.
So who cares what the goverment does, they have been f*cking the american people as long as i been alive!

[tony]

ok so you are fine if they raise taxes on everyone but not just the rich and you are also fine if they lower taxes on everyone including the rich? i assume you by those standards you think equal is better


I don't understand the whole idea of a $700 Billion bailout but CUT taxes. Its pretty basic, to offset the $5 Trillion added deficit since Bush has been in office AND cut taxes for the wealthy something has to change.

So, lets make this plain and simple:

Bush cut taxes = Record increase in deficit

Reagan tried trickle down economics with tax cuts on the rich = Deficit again

[Alan®]

i'm sorry but i would rather save majority of people money who would be buying my goods then saving me on my personal income b/c the money i make coming through my business door is how i live on not how much i pay in taxes.
And this is where you must not have a fundamental understanding of how small businesses make money.

Obama likes to talk about how a small % of these small business owners are going to be affected by what he is proposing. What he doesn't tell you is he is playing the numbers in his favor. The census bureau keeps track of all businesses operating inside of the U.S. There are something like 24 million. 19 of which are self-employed and have no payroll(no employees).THE CENSEUS BEUREAU DOES NOT TAKE THESE BUSINESSES INTO ACCOUNT.Here is how Obama gets his ridculosly low numbers


Because nonemployers account for only about 3.4 percent of business receipts, they are not included in most business statistics, for example, most reports from the Economic Census
http://www.census.gov/epcd/www/smallbus.html
YET OBAMA WANTS TO INCLUDE THEM TO MAKE HIS POINT SEEM MORE VALID.

When you look at it this way then yea only a small number will be affected by Obama's tax proposal. But when you look at it the way that the census bureau does, the picture changes dramatically. The percentage of small businesses by definition operating inside the U.S. with a payroll out of all companies with a payroll is 90%.Small businesses accounts for 90% of the businesses in the U.S.

The average small business owner TAKES HOME over Obama's threshold.


According to the survey, the national average salary for the CEO/Partner/Owner job function is $258,400;
http://www.salary.com/aboutus/layoutscripts/abtl_default.asp?tab=abt&cat=cat012&ser=ser041&part=Par545

EDIT: $258,000 Is what they make personally. Most small businesses are setup as LLC's or S-Corps which allows business owner's to claim any profits on their personal statement because it is cheaper to do it that way rather than pay the 39%+ business tax that they would have to pay otherwise. So by taxing small business owner's you are essentially taxing a businesses profit's. Therefore owners are making less which in turns means: they can't create more jobs, they can't pay people more, they can't expand, they can't do anything at the rate that they would normally.

You guys can talk all you want about how we have to give more to those who make less. That's all well and good but we also have to make sure that the jobs that we have now are not going to be lost by the number of thing Obama wants to change.

[Total_Blender]

Now lets say my $200,000 a year in income is based upon my small 5 person small business. My tax liability just increased $55,000 PER YEAR. SO i went from making $180,000 a year to making $125,000 per year. Thats a HUGE DROP. What am i going to do with that loss? prob not spend alot, not invest in my infrastructure, not expand an hire new people, wont buy equipment, wont contribute.

What are you going to do with your $600 in taxes you saved?

See my point.

Your $600 savings is not going to TOUCH my $55000 in money i LOST.

Just watch i mean im saving all these threads, its going to be the biggest I TOLD YOU SO in history

The consumers will have more money to spend and they will come to your company for goods and/or services. You will be doing more business, bringing in more money and that will cover any need for expansion.

If you are doing the same (or the way things are going lately, less) business every year it wouldn't make sense for your business to expand. There usually has to be an increase in demand for an expansion to be feasible, right?

[Vteckidd]

The consumers will have more money to spend and they will come to your company for goods and/or services. You will be doing more business, bringing in more money and that will cover any need for expansion.

If you are doing the same (or the way things are going lately, less) business every year it wouldn't make sense for your business to expand. There usually has to be an increase in demand for an expansion to be feasible, right?
so the extra $600 they have to spend will trump the $55000 i just lost

are you serious?

now these are general figures, not exact, but its pretty close to what Obama is propsing.

[Total_Blender]

so the extra $600 they have to spend will trump the $55000 i just lost

are you serious?

now these are general figures, not exact, but its pretty close to what Obama is propsing.

When there are 95 of them for every 1 of you, yes :goodjob:

$600 x 95 = $57,000

:cheers:

[Vteckidd]

When there are 95 of them for every 1 of you, yes :goodjob:

$600 x 95 = $57,000

:cheers:
your math is off

$600x95=$5700
$55,000x5=$275000

I assume you are talking about the 95% of americans versus the other 5%

so yeah there ya go

[Alan®]

And this is where you must not have a fundamental understanding of how small businesses make money.

Obama likes to talk about how a small % of these small business owners are going to be affected by what he is proposing. What he doesn't tell you is he is playing the numbers in his favor. The census bureau keeps track of all businesses operating inside of the U.S. There are something like 24 million. 19 of which are self-employed and have no payroll(no employees).THE CENSEUS BEUREAU DOES NOT TAKE THESE BUSINESSES INTO ACCOUNT.Here is how Obama gets his ridculosly low numbers


Because nonemployers account for only about 3.4 percent of business receipts, they are not included in most business statistics, for example, most reports from the Economic Census
http://www.census.gov/epcd/www/smallbus.html

When you look at it this way then yea only a small number will be affected by Obama's tax proposal. But when you look at it the way that the census bureau does, the picture changes dramatically. The percentage of small businesses by definition operating inside the U.S. with a payroll out of all companies with a payroll is 90%.Small businesses accounts for 90% of the businesses in the U.S.

The average small business owner TAKES HOME over Obama's threshold.


According to the survey, the national average salary for the CEO/Partner/Owner job function is $258,400;
http://www.salary.com/aboutus/layoutscripts/abtl_default.asp?tab=abt&cat=cat012&ser=ser041&part=Par545

EDIT: $258,000 Is what they make personally. Most small businesses are setup as LLC's or S-Corps which allows business owner's to claim any profits on their personal statement because it is cheaper to do it that way rather than pay the 39%+ business tax that they would have to pay otherwise. So by taxing small business owner's you are essentially taxing a businesses profit's. Therefore owners are making less which in turns means: they can't create more jobs, they can't pay people more, they can't expand, they can't do anything at the rate that they would normally.

You guys can talk all you want about how we have to give more to those who make less. That's all well and good but we also have to make sure that the jobs that we have now are not going to be lost by the number of thing Obama wants to change.
:goodjob:

[GTScoob]

Why does everyone "assume" giving tax breaks to the rich going to actually increase jobs?!? Could it? Maybe. Would it? Highly doubt it. Why? Because bitches are GREEDY!!!!!!! That reduction in taxes for the rich is going toward improvements in technology (which in return going to reduce jobs by replacing people with equipment) and profits. If they do increase jobs it’s not going to be for the lower level, non-educated people who actually going to need one. Companies aren’t going to hire anymore janitors, customer service reps, and sales people. It's going to go to a person like me, a future engineering who doesn't have to look for a job in the first place because everyone and their mother is trying to recruit them. Why? Because of fucking profit! They’re going to hire well educated people, give them $50-$75K only to try to make billions off them. The people that need the money and jobs aren't going to qualified, so they are going to get overlooked once again. The higher class is going to continue to distance themselves from everyone else, while that person who works fast food is still going to make minimal wage and struggle while everything around them goes up.

Our economy is fucked up, we as nation is way over our heads in debts. No one likes taxes, but what are you suppose to do with the government's revenues going down. The government must get money from some where. I got an idea, how about we increase taxes on the poor and middle class. (Not saying McCain is trying to tax the poor, Mike) Wrong because, they barely have enough money to get by as it. :rolleyes: Where the hell are we suppose to get the funds for our government, from the people struggling or the people with boats, lambos, vacation homes, and shit? The damn rich people! Is it fair? Nope, but it's not fair for someone to go hungry while spoiled people waste shit everyday. I giggle every time someone says Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth :D If trying to improve our way of life, help less fortunate people out, providing healthcare to people who can't afford to see a doctor because of the choice they did (or did not) make is "redistribution of wealth, I guess I'm all for it 100%. I'm all about helping others (if I have it). Rich people have it. Raise taxes on rich people; they are still going to have it (money). I highly doubt a person making at least $250k is going to go hungry because of taxes. I doubt that same person making at least $250k lifestyle going to change because taxes.
Quoted for the f$cking truth. I love how the most educated and reasonable post in here gets ignored while the rest of the posters are arguing with one-liners.

I said it in another thread, the members of the highest income tax bracket are the ones with the knowledge and experience to exploit the tax system. They have accountants that can track their finances and are familiar with basic lending practices. They understand how to use business loans and get government grants, or at least I'd hope so. Business loans are what drives economic development and poor lending policies are what destroys it. This whole economy has me wondering how many business owners and investors paid attention to their economics classes.

And Mike, you are correct taxation should be about raising revenue and not income redistribution; its not as much as taking from the rich and giving it to the poor, it is taxing the rich and using that money for public projects to benefit everyone. Are you opposed to renovating or building new hospitals in low-income areas of a city, simply because its residents did not pay for the new building?

At least on the brightside, a weaker dollar on the international market helps move american exports abroad, it'll make imports more expensive, but buy American. Be a patriot, care about your fellow countrymen.

And another point, how many of you realize the true role of the president? He cannot simply enact laws and tax breaks, they have to be approved by Congress. We do however have a custom where for the first 100 days of his presidency, Congress tries very hard to cooperate with domestic policy goals of the new administration. The president has a lot less of a domestic influence then you all realize, ask yourself who you'd rather have meeting with overseas leaders, the UN, the WTO, and if it comes to it, the IMF? McCain is from a previous era of international relations, the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise of international terrorism has greatly changed the global landscape and I dont think McCain will be as adaptable to future developments as Obama will be.

[Mike Lowrey]

LAST POST IN THIS THREAD

LAST POST

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every
day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement.


One day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good
customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce
the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. What
happens to the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide
the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They
realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody’s share,
then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to
drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to
reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to
work out the amounts each should pay..


And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’
‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar,
too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’
‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’
‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.


The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important.
They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Hahahaha....Nice!

Just don't expect admin and Tony to understand....

[OhMyGodfather]

as someone who makes more than 250k a year, id like to tell you that obama is a bitch stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

it is a competition based economy, if you aren't out trying to get a job that's valuable, then you deserve to have less money. I, on the other hand, don't need to pay more because Richard the janitor didn't feel like enrolling in free government paid technical college to learn how to be mechanic or dental assistant.

just because people are successful doesn't mean they should have to work harder to get the same amount of money they used to have... id be losing damn near 30 grand a year for some people to get $300-$600 more a year?

Now if you tell me that's fair AT ALL, you are being more selfish than I could ever be.



Oh, and by the way, just because we are successful business owners doesn't mean we have people paid to "beat the system" and cut corners. Some honest, intelligent people pay their taxes in full, besides the occasional write off, which by the way, is in ENCOURAGED by the gov't.

[tony]

it is a competition based economy, if you aren't out trying to get a job that's valuable, then you deserve to have less money.

What about the soldier who may bring in $30k a year and decided to defend your ass... just because he decided not to compete and defend his country he deserves "less"?

I've gone over this over and over, not everyone aspires to be wealthy, some prefer to be HAPPY. There are individuals that feel like they are doing gods work by helping the homeless, or being a paramedic.. none of those positions bring a great amount of wealth but I'm sure if you're stabbed in the street you'll sure appreciate that medic that chose their passion over money.

[Vteckidd]

What about the soldier who may bring in $30k a year and decided to defend your ass... just because he decided not to compete and defend his country he deserves "less"?

I've gone over this over and over, not everyone aspires to be wealthy, some prefer to be HAPPY. There are individuals that feel like they are doing gods work by helping the homeless, or being a paramedic.. none of those positions bring a great amount of wealth but I'm sure if you're stabbed in the street you'll sure appreciate that medic that chose their passion over money.
WELCOME TO FREE CHOICE

hard to understand isnt it?

My father was in the military, with 3 kids anda wife. you know how POOR we were growing up? i didnt get my own room until i was 14. We never had new cars, we never had a house we always lived in base housing, etc.

My father gave 22 years of his life to the Air FOrce. He never asked for a handout or a dime from anyone.

That was his CHOICE to serve his country. He was a Certified CPA and a Math Major and could have made ALOT more money in the private sector, but he didnt. HE CHOSE to stay in the AIR FORCE and make WAY LESS MONEY.

After he retired he went into the private sector and now makes over $300,000 with his Air Force Retirement. WHY SHOULD HE SUFFER?

Lastly, you miss one gigantic point, the Soldier, the Paramedic, the Cop, etc all have ways to MOVE UP. You cant look at them between the ages of 25-40 and say you deserve $300,000 a year. They have to WORK FOR IT to get ahead and move up.

This is like the housing thread, why should we reward people that are UNDER ACHIEVERS?

so you telling me we should start paying Cops, Soldiers, Teachers, Paramedics $100,000 a year?

you do know thats a recipe for inflation right? if everyone makes big money then everything becomes worth LESS. I mean if everyone could afford a Ferrari, you think Ferraris would still be the same price? Wheres your Real Wages talk now?

As much as you dont want to admit it, there HAS to be a lower income level, sorry. IT HAS TO BE THAT WAY. THere has to be people that dont do well and dont make alot of money.

You are right there are some people that dont aspire to be wealthy, and are happy making low money. I commend those people, they are needed in our society. But this is a FREE MARKET, they made those choices, not me. Why should to take away from my ambition and drive?

Prob because i strive to be wealthy im so evil guy that doesnt care about anyone else. LOL. i love it, so if you have motivation and drive to be wealthy it isnt noble anymore.

IF you want to make them all equal, then communism here we come.

[tony]

Amazing, just amazing. I'd love for you to get in front of a group of individuals in the Armed Forces and explain to them that because of their tax bracket they are the less productive of our society.

What happens when everyone gets to $300k a year Mike? It becomes middle class, income is relative.. there will always be those who have more than others. Because of this those who have more carry a tax burden relative to their income.. its simple.

I find it amazing that I have this argument as a part of one of the higher tax brackets that faces larger taxes.. but I argue this with people who theoretically by their own standards are the lazy sector of society because they are lower income.

[blurred visions]

Sorry you're line of thinking still doesn't warrant what Obama wants to do. By you're logic what Obama wants to do is cut taxes for 95% of people to basically give them a cost of living raise and he's going to pay for it by taxing the top 5%. Sorry I don't agree with that.


Wait, he isn't only going to pay for this by taxing the top 5%, he's going to get us out of this dead-end war that is costing us 10 billion a month. <<Thats a start. Also he plans to sit down and go line for line and cut useless funding, and do away with tax breaks for major oil companies.

And Mr. KiDD, you can cry all you wish about losing money, but your greediness will not fix our economy. With this downward spiral, what would you propose fix this? Staying with the current policies that keep leading us down? Or changing them? Helping the majority will stabilize the U.S., it's not a hard concept to realize.

Lets say we let the economy dip down to a depression, then what, the rich will lose money because of the drop in our economy. The middle class would spend less, layoffs would happen, and managerial positions may even get demoted.

[SUBY_RUE]

Outstanding.. What i've been saying all along. He's trying to appeal to the masses with lies. Typical government official.

Thas what i have been saying to some guys at work. Obama want to be president.... just becouse.... and sadly he knows how to appeal to people to get his way. Sucks for us.

[LightningSpeed]

sucks for us that Bush has been in office for 8 years.

[.blank cd]

Im about tired of all these rich republicans bitching about tax increases. If i was bringing home 250k a year, you better believe more than 200k will be SITTING a bank somewhere. I can live QUITE comfortably on 50k. I wouldnt break a sweat w/ an extra 10k in taxes if I was making that much. To those people i say stop buying million dollar houses you dont NEED, the $100k cars you dont NEED, and buy the shit you can AFFORD

And if im reading right, your bar analogy is flawed. At the end, if only 9 men go get beer, the bill is obviously gonna be less

[JConner]

Im about tired of all these rich republicans bitching about tax increases. If i was bringing home 250k a year, you better believe more than 200k will be SITTING a bank somewhere. I can live QUITE comfortably on 50k. I wouldnt break a sweat w/ an extra 10k in taxes if I was making that much. To those people i say stop buying million dollar houses you dont NEED, the $100k cars you dont NEED, and buy the shit you can AFFORD

And if im reading right, your bar analogy is flawed. At the end, if only 9 men go get beer, the bill is obviously gonna be less


The people with the million dollar houses deserve those houses because they earned the money to buy that house through hard work!!!!!! Do you not f'ing realize that while that million dollar house was being built MANY MANY MANY people (construction, landscapers, electricians, plumbers, roofers, etc) were provided a job to build that house or build that 100k car?????

[JConner]

Im about tired of all these rich republicans bitching about tax increases. If i was bringing home 250k a year, you better believe more than 200k will be SITTING a bank somewhere. I can live QUITE comfortably on 50k. I wouldnt break a sweat w/ an extra 10k in taxes if I was making that much. To those people i say stop buying million dollar houses you dont NEED, the $100k cars you dont NEED, and buy the shit you can AFFORD

And if im reading right, your bar analogy is flawed. At the end, if only 9 men go get beer, the bill is obviously gonna be less

oh and by the way....

yes, YOU (one person) can live off of 50k a year but, one day when I make 250k (hopefully), i will have started a family then send my kids to college and let my wife be a stay at home mom. 250k isn't looking so RICH after that now is it?

and why would you let 200k SIT in a bank???????? YOu know that only $100,000 of that money is FDIC insured, right? Plus you could make so much more money by investing that 200k in the stock market, a CD, etc.... But, then you would be taxed by Obama if you make money off of your own money. LOL So then you would become a republican!

[.blank cd]

The people with the million dollar houses deserve those houses because they earned the money to buy that house through hard work!!!!!! Do you not f'ing realize that while that million dollar house was being built MANY MANY MANY people (construction, landscapers, electricians, plumbers, roofers, etc) were provided a job to build that house or build that 100k car?????I know exactly what it takes to build a million dollar home, ive had my hand in quite a few of them as a matter of fact.


yes, YOU (one person) can live off of 50k a year but, one day when I make 250k (hopefully), i will have started a family then send my kids to college and let my wife be a stay at home mom. 250k isn't looking so RICH after that now is it?

and why would you let 200k SIT in a bank???????? YOu know that only $100,000 of that money is FDIC insured, right? Plus you could make so much more money by investing that 200k in the stock market, a CD, etc.... But, then you would be taxed by Obama if you make money off of your own money. LOL So then you would become a republican!
My mom makes 60k a year and puts a $200k roof over our family of four, has a $40k car, and puts PLENTY of food on the table AND put my sister through college. I dont think it would be too hard for me to do the same. ESPECIALLY on a $250k salary. And correct me if im wrong, but all my working life, ive been filing tax returns at the end of the year and getting MOST of what i paid into taxes back. Does that not work the same even if im making 250k?

When i say banks, i mean anything, investments, bonds, cds, all of the above. And all of you talk about getting taxed by obama, but dont see the bigger picture. If i put $100k in the stock market and make $50k and i get taxed for half, I still take home $25K doing absolutley ZERO WORK right? I simply do not see the loss there

[Vteckidd]

Im about tired of all these rich republicans bitching about tax increases. If i was bringing home 250k a year, you better believe more than 200k will be SITTING a bank somewhere. I can live QUITE comfortably on 50k. I wouldnt break a sweat w/ an extra 10k in taxes if I was making that much. To those people i say stop buying million dollar houses you dont NEED, the $100k cars you dont NEED, and buy the shit you can AFFORD


Its easy to sit there when you make $40,000 a year and say "if i made xxxx id do this"

$250,000 a year is not a lot of money, at all.

[.blank cd]

It may not be that much to some, but when you're living @ $40k, you can live COMFORTABLY @ $250k. I work my ass off to pay the bills, eat food, and sleep in a house, I dont work my ass off to go get into more and more debt. What does that $500k house do that my $200k one doesnt? Nothing exept add more debt. Ive had my hand in building and remodeling multi-million dollar homes, met the millionaire owners, seen millionaire toys and gadgets. Only difference between their houses and mine, is the time it takes to clean em.

[man]

I had a big response typed up for this, but you know what. You people just don't get it. Those of you that think all middle-upper income households have extra money just laying around are infuriatingly ignorant.

[.blank cd]

I had a big response typed up for this, but you know what. You people just don't get it. Those of you that think all middle-upper income households have extra money just laying around are infuriatingly ignorant.I know they dont have money laying around, and thats quite a sad thing

[Dirty Octopus™]

Thats because you're lazy and worthless since you're not wealthy.
damn... so that explains it :(

[4dmin]

this thread is kinda dead now but just noticed something in one of the tools a lot of us used for his tax plan :goodjob:

[flak_monkey]

That's another stupid term. "Working americans"Yeah, we all know mexicans are the only ones doing any real work around here.