Bailout fails and so do stocks!

[4dmin]

Read below and discuss.


Asked whether majority Democrats would try to reverse the stunning defeat, Hoyer said, "We're certainly not going to abandon our responsibility. We'll continue to focus on this and see what actions we can take."Several Republican aides said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had torpedoed any spirit of bipartisanship that surrounded the bill with her scathing speech near the close of the debate that blamed Bush's policies for the economic turmoil.

Without mentioning her by name, Rep. Adam Putnam, R-Fla., No. 3 Republican, said: "The partisan tone at the end of the debate today I think did impact the votes on our side."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523?GT1=43001 <<< full story

and http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches-092908.aspx






I find it really stupid reps are complaining about Pelosi's speech making references to Bush policies... if thats why reps didn't vote and not b/c of the bill itself that means they are more worried about appearances then doing their job. no if, then, buts about it....


i'm waiting to see what mccain/obama take is on this now.

[BanginJimmy]

I find it really stupid reps are complaining about Pelosi's speech making references to Bush policies... if thats why reps didn't vote and not b/c of the bill itself that means they are more worried about appearances then doing their job. no if, then, buts about it....


She alienated dems too obviously. With a party line vote it would have passed so dont start the "its the reps fault" BS. It is a crappy bill, and made worse by Pelosi's partisan rant.

[The Ninja]

Good.

[Alan®]

She alienated dems too obviously. With a party line vote it would have passed so dont start the "its the reps fault" BS. It is a crappy bill, and made worse by Pelosi's partisan rant.
X2 People have been calling congressman on both sides of the isle and 9:1 nobody is happy about this. I'm not the least bit surprised btw

[4dmin]

She alienated dems too obviously. With a party line vote it would have passed so dont start the "its the reps fault" BS. It is a crappy bill, and made worse by Pelosi's partisan rant.

i didn't say sh!t on whose to blame what i said was if that was the reason for not supporting the bill was b/c of a speech rather then bill itself then that is retarded. anyone should agree to that. they are supposed to be helping out our economy and putting pride aside.

[tony]

If the repubs shot it down I commend them on doing so. Its a good day to buy some stock actually if we know this will eventually pass.

edit: Hopefully it wasnt shot down because of Pelosi and because banks need to figure this **** out on their own.

[The Ninja]

http://totalyellow.com/F/Thr/FAILOUT.jpg

[BanginJimmy]

If the repubs shot it down I commend them on doing so. Its a good day to buy some stock actually if we know this will eventually pass.

edit: Hopefully it wasnt shot down because of Pelosi and because banks need to figure this **** out on their own.

I sold off a couple thousand shares of Freddie I bought at .52 so it was a pretty good day for me on that note. Maybe I will get lucky and see them tank again and buy again and restart the process.

[Alan®]

I sold off a couple thousand shares of Freddie I bought at .52 so it was a pretty good day for me on that note. Maybe I will get lucky and see them tank again and buy again and restart the process.
trippling your money ftw

[mmmmpsi]

To be honest I'm not surprised it failed.. People are just really sick of taxpayers having to foot the bill for companies making bad decisions.. NOW they are going to have to bail themselves out... The people that made these bad loans etc.. ALL would have gotten exactly how much money the would have even after the failure.. This is absolutely disgusting.. They should be fired they shouldn't be given hundreds of millions of dollars worth of severance packages.

Hey look at the bright side. Oil is under 100 bucks again :P

[mmmmpsi]

Dow Jones Industrial Average. INDU (INDEX)
N/APre-Market After Hours N/AChange: N/A N/AVolume: N/A
10,502.52
Change:-640.61 -5.75%
Volume:223,616,267

Ouch.

[mmmmpsi]

Lets just say the HELL with all of this and start all over again from scratch.. Cause that is about what it's going to take..

Dow Jones Industrial Average off 724.56 points to 10,418.57

[Alan®]

George Washington is rolling over in his grave with a big ass Facepalm saying "I told you idiots not to have parties but noooooooo"

[mmmmpsi]

And there she blows!!

10,365.45http://i.mktw.net/mw3/quotes/arrow-dn-lg.gif

Change:-777.68 -6.98%

Volume:382,359,876

[integra938]

Maybe the banks will stop being money hungry now,jacking rates up like crazy on people that cant pay high ass rates.

[Brick]

Maybe the banks will stop being money hungry now,jacking rates up like crazy on people that cant pay high ass rates.

If you can't pay the rates, don't get the loan. That includes what the rate might be later if you don't get a fixed loan. Your every day Joe Idiot is just as responsible as the banks that gave them the money.

[falconey]

this bill better not ever pass

[Vteckidd]

Just shows how partisan and how the pelosi/reed congress can't get anything done, again.

Props to the republicans and dems for sticking it to her

[alpine_aw11]

Just shows how partisan and how the pelosi/reed congress can't get anything done, again.

Props to the republicans and dems for sticking it to her

Pelosi is seriously Lucifer incarnate. She's truly worthless.

[Alan®]

Can't wait to see congres's approval rating after this :lmao:

[BanginJimmy]

honestly, it should go up. For once they actually did the right thing.

[Vteckidd]

nice rhetoric but passing a bad bill is doing their job? Gimme a break Paul.






I find it really stupid repses to Bush policies... if thats why reps didn't vote and not b/c of the bill itself that means they are more worried about appearances then doing their job. no if, then, buts about it....


i'm waiting to see what mccain/obama take is on this now.

[OG-Skinny]

I'd say give the $700 Billion bail out to taxpayers with homes. Give everyone $100,000 to pay off a house note, or pay some of it. That's make the taxpayers happy, as well as saving the banks asses.

[green91]

Investors with money in these mis-managed stocks are pulling out and driving these stock values down. This is NOT a true indicator of the economy though. I would rather see a portion of the 700bn go to raising FDIC limits, tackling energy problems & adopting a plan for managing loans.

[Vteckidd]

fact is there is zero leadership on both sides.

[ironchef]

I'd say this seals the deal for Obama to win, people are going to realize that republicans were the ones behind the bill not getting passed, thus creating the **** storm today and more than likely tomorrow.

As far as why the $700 billion should be passed (even though everyone agrees that its wrong, its pretty much the only option) heres a good post I read on another forum that summarized it pretty well.


I was in the mortgage business for 2 years and my degree is in Finance. Not saying that makes me the end-all, be-all of Financial/Economic knowledge, but it probably makes my guess about 25% better than the average joe. LoL.

Anyway, you're oversimplifying the problem. It wasnt just that the real estate became over-valued and over-speculated, it was also the types of instruments used to finance that activity. Giving high-risk loans to speculators was a dumb idea, but almost every single bank out there was doing it.

When that mixture of R/E bubble + high risk lending practices combined with spiking fuel costs, which then diffused out into the market & began to reflect in the cost of human necessities that usually require transport to be brought to the the consumer (namely, food), most consumers started tightening their budgets. As consumers had less to spend (because gas & food were costing more), many businesses started to see sharply decreased revenues. With the decreased revenues came job cuts. With job cuts and increased costs for other necessities, many of those high risk loans started to go into default.

As increasing numbers of loans started defaulting, the banks began offering less of those easy-to-get loans... and since people now had less money to spend anyway, there was sharp drop in home sales... less loas + less people asking for loans = WAY less home sales.

As Economics 101 teaches us, price is determined by the market at the point where supply and demand cross. Decrease the demand to buy houses, and it'll mean more and more houses on the market waiting to be sold (increased supply). Soon, it wasnt just speculators that couldnt get out of their mortgages by selling the house... it was the Average Joe that was now having to spend more for the basics, and maybe his wife lost her job at some retail place because sales were way off.

So at that point, middle America was starting to see a snowball effect... costs for fuel and food steadily increasing, lots of job cuts, adjustable rate mortgages start kicking in, which all combined just about killed all demand for new homes. As demand falls, so do prices/values. The bubble pops.

Now, the problem isn't really the value dropping as such... its that the mortgages are being dafaulted on at an alarming rate. And when the bank/lender has to take back a house and sell it at auction, they can rarely get even 75% of the value because they are selling it for cash. Not to mention that the avg joe that cant afford his mortgage payments often didnt have the money to do basic upkeep for a long time- so the houses themselves are often in need of many repairs. So, banks are taking back homes that have dropped in value by about 20% already, then when they auction them off they're only getting 65%-75% of that value even on perfectly good houses & much, much less on the houses that need repairs- taking huge losses.

As the banks start taking those huge losses, not only does their own stock drop, but all the institutional investors start loosing money on the income streams (bundled mortgages) they purchased. Now **** really hits the fan.

Avg Joe is now paying more for everything, and if he was lucky enough to have a retirement fund, it's probably dropped by 20%-25% as the market sinks. Airfare is higher so less people travel, causing many airlines to go out of business leaving thousands of people (like Avg Joe) unemployed. The retail sector is also crashing as people are spending less and less on non-eesentials. More layoffs and cutbacks there. And the more sectors that get hit hard, the more people are put out of work. The more people are put out of work, the more they default on their mortgages. The more the defaults pile up, the more deep losses the banks and large investing institutions (Retirement funds, Insurers, etc) take, so the less they are able to remain liquid.

So, it's a snowballing effect. And the real solution is stop the defaulting of mortgages, thereby cutting the losses on Wall Street and haulting the plummetting worldwide economy. The govt plan is to enable the treasury dept to actually buy those mortgages like an investor, in their entirety from the banks. Now the banks wouldn't have risky loans on the books and they'd feel more confident about their own futures, so they'd go back to doing what banks do- lending money for profit.

As for what the govt plans to do with those risky mortgages... well, thats whats taken so long to debate. My guess is that they'll put in place quite a few programs to help people stay in their houses, even in default. The govt doesnt want those damn houses any more than a bank does, so keeping Avg Joe in his house- even if he's out of work and not making payments- is probably better than taking a 50% loss on a $250K loan... about 10 million times over.

There ya go... that should make it all clear as mud for you. Any questions???


-CP

[Vteckidd]

that would be all fine and dandy except dems control congress. Not one republican needed to vote yes for this to pass. Obama and pelosi can't even lead a majority of congress in their own party.

[TIGERJC]

i am glad it didn't go through, hopefully the money will be spent on something that will actually benefit the u.s. long term like investinmg that money into edu, energy and infrastructures

[ironchef]

that would be all fine and dandy except dems control congress. Not one republican needed to vote yes for this to pass. Obama and pelosi can't even lead a majority of congress in their own party.That is a valid point, but the more important one is that pretty much everyone should've voted yes. This shouldn't be a bipartisan effort. Unite the parties and get this **** straightened out.

[blaknoize]

Sure wish I actually had stock... I woulda done the same as jimmy... then shorted them bishes.

[4dmin]

nice rhetoric but passing a bad bill is doing their job? Gimme a break Paul.

mike you are have one of the most biased opinions on here... you obviously didn't read what i posted. and being the car industry doesn't qualify you or i to decide if the bill can fix our problems. furthermore your president + admin (head of treasury) made the bill.

i said it is ridiculous if the reason they didn't vote was b/c of speeches. if it would fix our economy then support it and put pride aside. i am not for bailing out high $ execs that screwed us and you should know that i'm for obamas taxe plan :rolleyes:.


that would be all fine and dandy except dems control congress. Not one republican needed to vote yes for this to pass. Obama and pelosi can't even lead a majority of congress in their own party.

neither could bush/mccain or the rest of the reps... why do you think pelosi is where she is now :rolleyes:

[stephen]

i don't understand...we all agree that the $700B bail out isn't exactly fair to us, right? well, we lost over 1 trillion dollars today in the stock market, partly due to the failure of the bail out. it almost seems like we're cutting off our nose to spite our face...where's the logic?

[rehab]

On the micro level, let me see if I have this whole thing figured out, correctly:

Home loans were made to people who probably couldn't make the payments (subprime), but the lenders didn't care because they were not only going to package and sale the mortgage but when, not if, the borrower defaulted, the rising value of real estate plus their limited payments would make reselling the house profitable even highly profitable. This was okay until the inflation in house prices stabilized or dropped and the number of repackaged bad loans was realized.

The ****ed up part being that whoever made the original loan was long ago removed from having to deal with any risk because they sold the **** with the gravy.

It was a big fat game of musical chairs, but as more and more chairs were being removed everyone just hoped the music wouldn't stop rather than covering their asses?

Not a Einstein-level of analogy obviously, but is it accurate?

[Vteckidd]

neither could bush/mccain or the rest of the reps... why do you think pelosi is where she is now :rolleyes:

Pelosi only has HERSELF to blame.

Fact is, and Clinton came out an said it too this week, the DEMOCRATS have had their pockets lined by Fannie and Freddie for YEARS. Barney Frank shouldnt even be allowed to show his face.

Bush, Mccain, and others all pushed for Reform as long ago as 2000. The DEMS BLOCKED IT EVERY TIME. So lets not kid ourselves who is to blame.

If the Dems were so for "the middle class" and protecting the TAX PAYERS, then why were they trying to get HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS from this plan to donate to their ULTRA LEFT WING Lobbyists, Labor Parties, and organizations.

THey wanted 200 MIllion to go to ACORN :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Clinton even tried to get reform done, and under him the Dems blocked anything he tried to do.

Fact is YOUR party has had control over the Congress for 2 years, they have done as much as Obama has, which is NOTHING.

For pelosi to make that rant today shows just how STUPID she is, and how she is trying to rewrite history.

I mean come on you guys are on crack. Why are you allowed to REWRITE HISTORY to make it sute your party.

I want to throw this out there even though because you have made the argument the war is bringing the economy down too.

80% OF CONGRESS VOTED FOR THE WAR. It wasnt about WMD, it wasnt about going affter 9/11 terrorists, go read what its about. Obama wasnt for the war, great, he had NO POLITICAL STAKE IN ANTHING Its easy to say you are against something when your vote doesnt count cause you werent even in the senate or house.

Obamas TOP ECONOMIC ADVISOR used to run Fannie Mae and LEHMAN BROTHERS, so you want to talk about GREEDY CEOs, look at who is advising OBAMA.

Pelosi is a loud mouth and she got ****ED today, and im glad they didnt pass a bad bill.

[Alan®]

i don't understand...we all agree that the $700B bail out isn't exactly fair to us, right? well, we lost over 1 trillion dollars today in the stock market, partly due to the failure of the bail out. it almost seems like we're cutting off our nose to spite our face...where's the logic?
In all actuality we would have lost that money one way or the other. I have been reading a lot of stuff that says this $700 billion will prop us up for a short amount of time and then it would come crashing down. There was also stuff in there that would have effected those homeowners who actually paid their mortgage but were unfortunately surrounded by those who were irresponsible and bought houses they couldn't afford.

This bailout is not a guarantee. There's a good chance it could work and there's a good chance it won't. Nobody knows.

[Alan®]

THey wanted 200 MIllion to go to ACORN :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
Yea I read that as well. WTF :thinking:

[4dmin]

Pelosi only has HERSELF to blame.

Fact is, and Clinton came out an said it too this week, the DEMOCRATS have had their pockets lined by Fannie and Freddie for YEARS. Barney Frank shouldnt even be allowed to show his face.

Bush, Mccain, and others all pushed for Reform as long ago as 2000. The DEMS BLOCKED IT EVERY TIME. So lets not kid ourselves who is to blame.

If the Dems were so for "the middle class" and protecting the TAX PAYERS, then why were they trying to get HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS from this plan to donate to their ULTRA LEFT WING Lobbyists, Labor Parties, and organizations.

THey wanted 200 MIllion to go to ACORN :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Clinton even tried to get reform done, and under him the Dems blocked anything he tried to do.

Fact is YOUR party has had control over the Congress for 2 years, they have done as much as Obama has, which is NOTHING.

For pelosi to make that rant today shows just how STUPID she is, and how she is trying to rewrite history.

I mean come on you guys are on crack. Why are you allowed to REWRITE HISTORY to make it sute your party.

I want to throw this out there even though because you have made the argument the war is bringing the economy down too.

80% OF CONGRESS VOTED FOR THE WAR. It wasnt about WMD, it wasnt about going affter 9/11 terrorists, go read what its about. Obama wasnt for the war, great, he had NO POLITICAL STAKE IN ANTHING Its easy to say you are against something when your vote doesnt count cause you werent even in the senate or house.

Obamas TOP ECONOMIC ADVISOR used to run Fannie Mae and LEHMAN BROTHERS, so you want to talk about GREEDY CEOs, look at who is advising OBAMA.

Pelosi is a loud mouth and she got ****ED today, and im glad they didnt pass a bad bill.

mike you make some of the most ignorant post... you obviously know a lot less then you make yourself out to know. you need to actually READ more on everything you have stated b/c you are grossly inaccurate on a lot of it.

bush/mccain couldn't get any reform to pass when their own party REPUBLICANS HAD MAJORITY. i already had to point that out to your far far right nut swingers in another thread. furthermore mccain isn't clean from ties to freddie/fannie he too accepted money and this is know. his economic advisor was the head lobbiest for them and had a 50 million dollar budget between 03-06. what is even better is mccains reform bill for housing market wanted to do away w/ lobbiest in this market yet he hired one to work for him :thinking:

get your facts straight mike. both parties reps/dems + mccain/obama have their hand in this no one is innocent.

[man]

i didn't say sh!t on whose to blame what i said was if that was the reason for not supporting the bill was b/c of a speech rather then bill itself then that is retarded. anyone should agree to that. they are supposed to be helping out our economy and putting pride aside.

Tell that to Pelosi also... Funny how you only see one side of things

[4dmin]

Tell that to Pelosi also... Funny how you only see one side of things

you are another moron too who obviously doesn't READ much. i'm one sided for holding people accountable for voting on the issues not their pride :thinking:

thats a dumb f*cking statement. i would love to know your education and what you do for a living.

[Vteckidd]

problem is paul you are so far left its impossible to have any kind of argument or contructive debate. You an Tony are so out there lol

I mean you didnt answer 90% of my questions still.

I still love you and ive come to grips that the "kool aid" drinkers might just get it when this country goes into a deep recession if Obama gets in

[4dmin]

problem is paul you are so far left its impossible to have any kind of argument or contructive debate. You an Tony are so out there lol

I mean you didnt answer 90% of my questions still.

I still love you and ive come to grips that the "kool aid" drinkers might just get it when this country goes into a deep recession if Obama gets in

^ the pendulum swings both ways - it isn't a constructive debate if you refute the facts. republicans did have a majority for what you are trying to say dems had a hand in. you also try to nullify the fact mccain has ties to the problem (ie. accepted money and employs ex employees of)...

i said both OBAMA/MCCAIN are at fault... who is drinking the juice? 90% of what questions ... dont' make it out like your some new commentator doing an interview. i've answered more questions on here then your vp nominee.

[Vteckidd]

John McCain 2006 - Warning On Current Housing Crisis
Posted on September 20, 2008 by mcauleysworld
FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005

The United States Senate

May 25, 2006
Section 16

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

The Deocrats Killed this measure in Committee preventing a full Senate Vote.

Barack Obama voted against this reform.

See the original Senate Record here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190



McCain Accounting Proposal Scuttled
Senate Rejects Listing Of Stock Options as A Corporate Expense

By Helen Dewar and David S. Hilzenrath

Washington Post Staff Writers

Friday, July 12, 2002; Page A01


Senate Democrats yesterday blocked a proposal that would have changed the way companies account for stock options, an initiative vehemently opposed by high-tech companies that have used such grants to award billions of dollars in compensation to their executives and employees.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) tried unsuccessfully to attach to a broader corporate accountability bill a requirement that companies subtract the cost of stock option grants from their reported profits. But the Democratic leadership prevented McCain’s amendment from reaching a vote.

”The fix is in,” said McCain, vowing to try to force a vote on the measure in the future. McCain’s proposal faced bipartisan resistance in the Senate.

Unlike salaries and cash bonuses, option grants to executives and employees are not counted as an expense on corporate statements. If they were, many companies would report weaker profits, and some companies that now appear profitable would post losses.

The ability of companies to dispense options as if they had no cost has led to huge executive grants, giving corporate leaders added incentive to cook the books and artificially inflate stock prices, some politicians and business analysts say.

After Republicans used parliamentary maneuvers to block Democrats’ amendments, Assistant Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) outflanked McCain. As a result, Reid spared senators the potential discomfort of going on record with a vote against the stock option amendment.


New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae

By STEPHEN LABATON

Published: September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

[snip]

Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''







John McCain co-sponsored the Federal Housing Enterprise REgulatory Reform Act of 2005. That act was BLOCKED by Democrats, along with some of the "goold old boy" Republicans that Palin fought in Alaska.

What's more, McCain PREDICTED the present mortgage problem He made a speech in the Congressional record talking aobuut the accounting fraud at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (fraud committed mainly by Democrats). Not only that, McCain said he was "concerned" about the magnitude of teh role played by these government sponsored entities in our mortgage market, when they were obviously not being vigourously regulated.

it is McCain who proved RIGHT on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and Obama who is on the side of the people who BLOCKED reform.


Couple of things

1) Read the BOLDED parts and notice the YEARS mentioned

2) Notice who is BLOCKING all the reform

3) Notice who OBAMA voted for

4) Notice that BARNEY FRANK OUTRIGHT LIED

But im sure this is somehow some vast right wing conspiracy and im a moron, and my facts are wrong etcetcetc

[Vteckidd]

i've answered more questions on here then your vp nominee.
and my previous post has more EXPERIENCE than Obama has had in 4 years.

LOL

[4dmin]

and my previous post has more EXPERIENCE than Obama has had in 4 years.

LOL


you can point all of the fingers you want b/c the FACTS speak the truth:


108th Congress (2003-2005)
Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)
Total Seats: 100

i dont' need to bold/enlarge it b/c you and i know your statements are full of spin rather then fact. i am not going to answer b/c you are talking in circles. you refuse to see your own party had a hand it, so this shows your ignorance. see previous threads for facts on this issue:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196674&page=2

[Vteckidd]

you can point all of the fingers you want b/c the FACTS speak the truth:



i dont' need to bold/enlarge it b/c you and i know your statements are full of spin rather then fact. i am not going to answer b/c you are talking in circles. you refuse to see your own party had a hand it, so this shows your ignorance. see previous threads for facts on this issue:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196674&page=2

hey NUMBNUTS

The Deocrats Killed this measure in Committee preventing a full Senate Vote.

Barack Obama voted against this reform.

so how do you feel about Barney Frank outright bold face lieing to the american people? no answer for that i see.

[Vteckidd]

you can point all of the fingers you want b/c the FACTS speak the truth:



i dont' need to bold/enlarge it b/c you and i know your statements are full of spin rather then fact. i am not going to answer b/c you are talking in circles. you refuse to see your own party had a hand it, so this shows your ignorance. see previous threads for facts on this issue:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196674&page=2

so since when is the Senate the only legislative branch, you forgot the HoR

The republican Congress did the exact same thing the DEMS have done, NOTHING, but at least the Repubs were trying to get stuff done by proposing bills, the Dems lead by Pelosi have done JACK ****.

and you want to sit here an spill RHETORIC and lIES about who caused the housing crisis, when your presidential candidate VOTED AGAINST REFORM

[4dmin]

hey NUMBNUTS

The Deocrats Killed this measure in Committee preventing a full Senate Vote.

Barack Obama voted against this reform.

so how do you feel about Barney Frank outright bold face lieing to the american people? no answer for that i see.

you mean the same committee Republicans had an 11-9 seat advantage in :thinking:

so what does that mean

[Vteckidd]

sigh its hopeless

I sense my website fees going up by the second

[4dmin]

sigh its hopeless

I sense my website fees going up by the second

na i wont' hold it against you... you should of been on the jesus talks jaime and i had...this is nothing. we are great friends (enough i get put down as a reference) :cheers:

[Vteckidd]

LOL i think we would prob get along alot on religion

Im out of here have to go "work"

Paul get in touch with me when you can so we can get that stuff going

[josh green]

I'd say give the $700 Billion bail out to taxpayers with homes. Give everyone $100,000 to pay off a house note, or pay some of it. That's make the taxpayers happy, as well as saving the banks asses.
I think giving people money to pay off bills would be a bad idea. Who is to say they dont get "hood rich" and just get a loan against their home and buy useless sh*t and not pay for it. They will be under the impression that eventually they will be bailed out. People cannot have things without earning them, then they are not respected otherwise.
I would be ecstatic to be given money to pay off my home but what about the people who have paid off their homes themselves? Would I really own my home or would I be renting it from the government at a discount rate? What about people who dont owe xxxxxx amount on their homes, technically people could be getting more home for the less money and then people would compain about things being fair.
How many people that were forclosed on REALLY tried to stay in their homes? I find it almost impossible to not be able to afford an interest only loan. Yeah, that really sucks, but if it means staying afloat until things get better for you, wouldnt you want that? The banks are getting their money, you are just not paying on the home. Now I dont know what it takes to get an interest only loan, but I guess the only downfall would be the closing cost of "refinancing" or whatever it is you are actually doing.
I can say it until I am blue in the face, but you are responsible for your actions and consequences come with your decision, good or bad.
I already support broke ass people from the taxes in my paycheck, by passing the bill, I will just be paying for it twice.