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View Full Version : Biden vs Palin debate this thursday...



4dmin
09-29-2008, 08:19 AM
Biden vs Palin debate this thursday... who do you think is gonna win?



i've been waiting for this one since reps chose her... biden for sure.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

^ quoted from other thread.



discuss.

Vteckidd
09-29-2008, 08:22 AM
Palin in a land slide. Biden self destructs

Kevykev
09-29-2008, 08:22 AM
When i think of Palin, I think of her being GRILLED for the past 2 weeks like they did Drago in Rocky IV.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 08:26 AM
Palin in a land slide. Biden self destructs

gotta quote this one ... we'll see won't we :cheers:

Deke
09-29-2008, 08:48 AM
I will be utterly shocked if Palin wins this.

blacknightteg
09-29-2008, 09:20 AM
i highly doubt palin will win

BanginJimmy
09-29-2008, 10:13 AM
I think a draw is the same as calling it a Palin win.


I look at alot of the comments made by Biden in the last couple weeks and I just dont know if he can handle a debate if it gets nasty. Simply too many comments made that go against Obama's platform.

tony
09-29-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm utterly shocked that someone would think that Palin doesn't paint herself a fool on thursday.

You want to know how Biden will win the debate? Let her speak, Biden is well versed in international relations.. all he has to do is speak off of knowledge. Palin lacks knowledge, she is trained on talking points and nothing more.

I'm sorry guys, being in Alaska keeps you so far from everything going on in the world. Basically everything you know is based off of what you see on television. You do not even get second hand information because none of your peers have any real world experience. Palin suffers on this level and all of a sudden she is thrown on this big stage, she is far out of her league and now many conservatives are saying she needs to step down.

Mike Lowrey
09-29-2008, 10:28 AM
I'm utterly shocked that someone would think that Palin doesn't paint herself a fool on thursday.

You want to know how Biden will win the debate? Let her speak, Biden is well versed in international relations.. all he has to do is speak off of knowledge. Palin lacks knowledge, she is trained on talking points and nothing more.

I'm sorry guys, being in Alaska keeps you so far from everything going on in the world. Basically everything you know is based off of what you see on television. You do not even get second hand information because none of your peers have any real world experience. Palin suffers on this level and all of a sudden she is thrown on this big stage, she is far out of her league and now many conservatives are saying she needs to step down.


All she has to do is sidestep the knowledge/experience thing like Obama did in his debate. I think Obama did a pretty good job of it too.


I will wait to see the debate before declaring a winner.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 10:31 AM
I'm utterly shocked that someone would think that Palin doesn't paint herself a fool on thursday.


i would totally bet on this except for hardcore reps will not claim defeat even if she butchers it like her last two interviews. i am waiting to see what faq check and critique afterward has to say about it :bump:

alpine_aw11
09-29-2008, 10:35 AM
This is going to be really bad. Palin is going to seal McCain's defeat, he would've had a great shot at winning the election without that worthless VP choice. She simply doesn't know ****.

Vteckidd
09-29-2008, 10:50 AM
I think its pretty funny to hear Tony say that Palin will hang herself just by talking.

This is what the Dems have been praying for and she hasnt done it yet. They keep hoping for that one moment that ruins her and it just hasnt happened yet so they are fabricating stories to make themselves feel better.

Biden has had the same if not MORE of the same blunders the rest of the politicians have. Biden talking about FDR on National TV when it was Hoover and before TV was even around , calling paying taxes patriotic, saying Obama was wrong for going after mccain in an ad about him not being able to email. I mean he has had more sound bites than Palin.

Fact is the only person that can change this election is PALIN, Biden is a NON ISSUE. He is boring, unenergetic, hes a career politician.

Obama is this young, charismatic, eloquent speaker. But unfortunetly he has ZERO EXPERIENCE and has done absolutely NOTHING but run for president. Palin, shes not as good a speaker as Obama, but she can energize a crowd like he can.

Biden is going to have to destroy her , and i dont think he can do it. He cant come off as condescending, he cant come off as talking down to her (a woman), he cant come off as experienced because then hes not the "change" Obama is promising.

All Palin has to do is hold her own and not give the liberals any sound bites and you watch her bounce the Mccain ticket 5 points.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 10:54 AM
she is trained on talking points and nothing more.
You know this cause you work on the campaign staff right :rolleyes: .

Dirty Octopus™
09-29-2008, 10:58 AM
Palin can get a lil' fiesty. though i think Biden may tear her apart as far as issues and their jobs are concerned. she seems more like she'll give SEVERAL low blows in the pursuit of sounding credible.

Vteckidd
09-29-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm utterly shocked that someone would think that Palin doesn't paint herself a fool on thursday.

You want to know how Biden will win the debate? Let her speak, Biden is well versed in international relations.. all he has to do is speak off of knowledge. Palin lacks knowledge, she is trained on talking points and nothing more.

LOL are you serious?

I LOVE YOU GUYS so hypocritical!

WHen you discuss OBama vs Mccain your argument is always that Obama represents Change and that the "old boy network" in washington needs to be done away with. Yet Obama has absolutely no record, period. But that doesnt matter to you because hes DIFFERENT! Who cares about Experience

When you Discuss Palin vs Biden it is suddenly all about EXPERIENCE and how she has none.



I'm sorry guys, being in Alaska keeps you so far from everything going on in the world. Basically everything you know is based off of what you see on television. You do not even get second hand information because none of your peers have any real world experience. Palin suffers on this level and all of a sudden she is thrown on this big stage, she is far out of her league and now many conservatives are saying she needs to step down.

And being a senator for 2 years from ILLINOIS is SO MUCH BETTER! God that was the dumbest thing i have ever seen you say tony!

How can you say that a GOVERNOR in ALASKA means NOTHING?! then in the same sentence you are touting obama like hes gods gift to politics. What has BIDEN done that was so wonderfull?

LOL and spreading lies, the same number of CONSERVATIVES wanting her to step down are proportional to the DEMS that are now voting MCCAIN. So whats your point?

It just amazes me how when it comes to the question of EXPERIENCE for the presidency, no one has an answer because they want Obama to win, but suddenly all your guys are experts on what it takes to be a VP.

laughable

tony
09-29-2008, 11:00 AM
You know this cause you work on the campaign staff right :rolleyes: .

Did you watch the interview with Katie Couric? I know this because I've watched the campaigns over and over and I know what is new and I know what is regurgitated. She doesn't think on her own, she's not that intelligenct regardless of what you want to believe.

I can tell the exact same thing with Obama to the point where I can almost say one of his stump speeches along with him.

Vteckidd
09-29-2008, 11:02 AM
The difference is the Media asks PALIN "GOTCHA" questions , they are BROAD, and have no real answer.

Unfortunetly she doesnt know how to answer them so they try to play it into a sound bite.

Obama is GREAT at generalizing and dodging the question. That is the only difference between them

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 11:04 AM
Did you watch the interview with Katie Couric? I know this because I've watched the campaigns over and over and I know what is new and I know what is regurgitated. She doesn't think on her own, she's not that intelligenct regardless of what you want to believe.

I can tell the exact same thing with Obama to the point where I can almost say one of his stump speeches along with him.
I did see it. I will agree with you that McCain is mishandeling her.

But again you don't know what she's being trained on for the debate :goodjob:

tony
09-29-2008, 11:05 AM
It just amazes me how when it comes to the question of EXPERIENCE for the presidency, no one has an answer because they want Obama to win, but suddenly all your guys are experts on what it takes to be a VP.

laughable

Ever been to Alaska? Especially for an extended period of time, I'm just curious.

What I stated is based off of my experience, not my disdain for her or McCain. Someone who has lived in Alaska all of their life is hardly worthy of a position that requires a worldly knowledge.


All she has to do is sidestep the knowledge/experience thing like Obama did in his debate. I think Obama did a pretty good job of it too.


I will wait to see the debate before declaring a winner.

I agree totally, but the thing is Obama has 32 debates to hone his side stepping, Palin does not.

tony
09-29-2008, 11:07 AM
The difference is the Media asks PALIN "GOTCHA" questions , they are BROAD, and have no real answer.

Unfortunetly she doesnt know how to answer them so they try to play it into a sound bite.

Obama is GREAT at generalizing and dodging the question. That is the only difference between them

OoOOoOoo the evil media, damn them for actually asking questions that were not prepared! :rolleyes:





But again you don't know what she's being trained on for the debate :goodjob:


If she's being trained on what to say.. that means she is being fed talking points, its pretty simple.

Vteckidd
09-29-2008, 11:09 AM
OoOOoOoo the evil media, damn them for actually asking questions that were not prepared! :rolleyes:





If she's being trained on what to say.. that means she is being fed talking points, its pretty simple.
DO A POLL an ask how many people know what the BUSH DOCTRINE is, less than 10% of Americans would know what that was.

If thats your guys HOME RUN then you have alot to figure out

4dmin
09-29-2008, 11:09 AM
I think its pretty funny to hear Tony say that Palin will hang herself just by talking.

This is what the Dems have been praying for and she hasnt done it yet. They keep hoping for that one moment that ruins her and it just hasnt happened yet so they are fabricating stories to make themselves feel better.

Biden has had the same if not MORE of the same blunders the rest of the politicians have. Biden talking about FDR on National TV when it was Hoover and before TV was even around , calling paying taxes patriotic, saying Obama was wrong for going after mccain in an ad about him not being able to email. I mean he has had more sound bites than Palin.

Fact is the only person that can change this election is PALIN, Biden is a NON ISSUE. He is boring, unenergetic, hes a career politician.

Obama is this young, charismatic, eloquent speaker. But unfortunetly he has ZERO EXPERIENCE and has done absolutely NOTHING but run for president. Palin, shes not as good a speaker as Obama, but she can energize a crowd like he can.

Biden is going to have to destroy her , and i dont think he can do it. He cant come off as condescending, he cant come off as talking down to her (a woman), he cant come off as experienced because then hes not the "change" Obama is promising.

All Palin has to do is hold her own and not give the liberals any sound bites and you watch her bounce the Mccain ticket 5 points.

dude your far off base... dont think biden will not attack her on all of the issues. i'm not sure if you've watched all of her speeches but they were regurgitated GOP convention speeches. I will give you she is energetic and fresh for rep faces but when it comes down to the issues she doesn't know her sh!t. you obviously missed her last interview. i know you tried to state that Gibson was attacking her; i'm sure you will say the same about Couric.

sorry dude she is the weakest link out of the four. good strategy move to insert a woman but he should of gotten one w/ more knowledge on US gov and policy. debates come down to knowlege on the issues not how outgoing you are.

Vteckidd
09-29-2008, 11:10 AM
dude your far off base... dont think biden will not attack her on all of the issues. i'm not sure if you've watched all of her speeches but they were regurgitated GOP convention speeches. I will give you she is energetic and fresh for rep faces but when it comes down to the issues she doesn't know her sh!t. you obviously missed her last interview. i know you tried to state that Gibson was attacking her; i'm sure you will say the same about Couric.

sorry dude she is the weakest link out of the four. good strategy move to insert a woman but he should of gotten one w/ more knowledge on US gov and policy. debates come down to knowlege on the issues not how outgoing you are.
Its not even worth arguing because Obama gets a free pass, but Palin you guys love to villify.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Its not even worth arguing because Obama gets a free pass, but Palin you guys love to villify.

how'd he get a free pass? he did just has good as mccain did in the debates and polls show that. bias or not niether hit home runs nor won it.

did you watch the couric interview?

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 11:24 AM
i would totally bet on this except for hardcore reps will not claim defeat even if she butchers it like her last two interviews. i am waiting to see what faq check and critique afterward has to say about it :bump:
I'm sorry I got stop you there because you know what. SHe has done interview with only hostile interviewers. She needs to get on networks like Fox so that you can see who she really is. The problem with interviews like the Katie Couric Interview is that Obama and the media have painted a picutre of her basically wearing a duncecap. And since CBS/NBC etc. are very left they are going to push it even more.Palin answers her questions in very much the same way that Obama did early on. What I find humorus is that the found it acceptable and he is the PRESIDENTIAL canidate and she is merely the Vice Presidential canidate and she is getting pushed harder than Obama.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 11:29 AM
If she's being trained on what to say.. that means she is being fed talking points, its pretty simple.
Tony again you make no sense here. Everyone's issue with her it seems is that she doesn't "Know anything" "I'm smarter than Palin",etc. So then when she makes an effor to educate herself she is simply learning talking points and still doesn't know anything? Sorry you can't have your cake and eat it too.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 11:32 AM
I'm sorry I got stop you there because you know what. SHe has done interview with only hostile interviewers. She needs to get on networks like Fox so that you can see who she really is. The problem with interviews like the Katie Couric Interview is that Obama and the media have painted a picutre of her basically wearing a duncecap. And since CBS/NBC etc. are very left they are going to push it even more.Palin answers her questions in very much the same way that Obama did early on. What I find humorus is that the found it acceptable and he is the PRESIDENTIAL canidate and she is merely the Vice Presidential canidate and she is getting pushed harder than Obama.

hostile interviewers :lmfao: com'on dude let me pull out the worlds smallest violin :boohoo:

hostile would be Orilley Factor - the guy makes fun of people until they come to his show.

I think you are forgetting as stated by many she is 1 step away from being leader of the FREE WORLD. she needs to be torn apart like the rest to see how she stacks up. is she getting more then normal vp - yes. why? well stems back to her being picked for strategic reasons. she wasn't picked for being a good candidate she was picked b/c the reps wanted to drive that divide between hillary/obama voters. you can't deny this b/c she got more press for weeks while mccain took a back seat.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 11:33 AM
how'd he get a free pass? he did just has good as mccain did in the debates and polls show that. bias or not niether hit home runs nor won it.

did you watch the couric interview?
Sorry but I would rather have a canidate that simply said I don't know than one that can't make up his mind. How she answered that final question is Debating/Interview 101. Rather than give your opponent the opportunity to come back later and say you were wrong, you be honest and say I don't know but I'll find out for you.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 11:36 AM
I think you are forgetting as stated by many she is 1 step away from being leader of the FREE WORLD.
Yet again a one sided argument from the dems :rolleyes: . Both are a breath away from the Presidency. I love how people simply take McCain's age and go "OH HE'S OLD HE'S GOING TO DIE SOON SH!T". If you're going to argue that than Biden needs to be ripped to shreds as well so we can see what we are getting. But it will never happen. Things are beyond our control. As I recall the youngest president to take office didn't make it all the way through his first term either but eh? That's ok no big deal :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

tony
09-29-2008, 11:54 AM
Its not even worth arguing because Obama gets a free pass, but Palin you guys love to villify.


Know why Obama gets my respect and Palin doesn't on this stage? Obama was elected to this position.. he had to earn it and went up against was basically was the incumbent in Hillary Clinton.

Palin was handed her position and nothing more. She cant compare herself to Hillary because she hasnt done anything to earn the position of VP.

willum14pb
09-29-2008, 12:01 PM
i think she's been fooling you all with these interviews.. :ninja: she'll show up thursday with more knowledge than biden has to offer on everything!!!


*wishful thinking* lol.


i dont know, it will be interesting to say the least... can't wait to see what happens.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 12:03 PM
i think she's been fooling you all with these interviews.. :ninja: she'll show up thursday with more knowledge than biden has to offer on everything!!!


*wishful thinking* lol.


i dont know, it will be interesting to say the least... can't wait to see what happens.
At the end of the day this debate is just like the Obama Mccain debate. All she has to do is tie or surprise everyone and she essentially wins

alpine_aw11
09-29-2008, 12:44 PM
At the end of the day this debate is just like the Obama Mccain debate. All she has to do is tie or surprise everyone and she essentially wins

I really don't think she's going to be able to do that though. She's not going to be able to keep up with Biden, he's going to be a total prick in this debate. Which could actually end up being good for her, but nonetheless I can't see her being any competition when it comes to actually dealing with the issues and giving good answers. But then again, we will only know when the debate happens. As of now I predict failure.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 01:01 PM
I really don't think she's going to be able to do that though. She's not going to be able to keep up with Biden, he's going to be a total prick in this debate. Which could actually end up being good for her, but nonetheless I can't see her being any competition when it comes to actually dealing with the issues and giving good answers. But then again, we will only know when the debate happens. As of now I predict failure.

him attacking putting her to the test will only push the woman vote away from her... hill dawg supporters aren't uniformed house wives. if she doesn't hold her own she will not gain those Hillary voters reps were banking on.

alpine_aw11
09-29-2008, 01:03 PM
him attacking putting her to the test will only push the woman vote away from her... hill dawg supporters aren't uniformed house wives. if she doesn't hold her own she will not gain those Hillary voters reps were banking on.

It's not necessarily about whether or not she attacks her, it's the manner that he goes about doing it. If he's a douchebag throughout the debate, that could actually help her because people don't take lack of character as a good quality. I don't know what he's going to do, but I've heard he plans on being pretty ruthless. Again, I'm just going to wait and see.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 01:07 PM
It's not necessarily about whether or not she attacks her, it's the manner that he goes about doing it. If he's a douchebag throughout the debate, that could actually help her because people don't take lack of character as a good quality. I don't know what he's going to do, but I've heard he plans on being pretty ruthless. Again, I'm just going to wait and see.

only people who look for the sympathy card are currently voting rep anyway... they aren't going to be swayed either way. undecided voters are what debates are about and these people mainly are in it for the issues.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 01:32 PM
only people who look for the sympathy card are currently voting rep anyway.
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Wait a minute. And what are the dems all about? Helping the little people. We should have sympathy on the little people that don't make enough money to buy the big screen and have internet. So we are going to take away from those that have and give it to those that have not. Obama wants socialize practically everything. And raise taxes on small business owners who make up 99% of the businesses in this country who also give out most of the jobs in this country. But you're right we are the ones looking for the sympathy here.

4dmin
09-29-2008, 01:51 PM
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Wait a minute. And what are the dems all about? Helping the little people. We should have sympathy on the little people that don't make enough money to buy the big screen and have internet. So we are going to take away from those that have and give it to those that have not. Obama wants socialize practically everything. And raise taxes on small business owners who make up 99% of the businesses in this country who also give out most of the jobs in this country. But you're right we are the ones looking for the sympathy here.

what does this have to do w/ topic? well mccain wants 95% of america to pay more taxes then obama :rolleyes: who the f*ck cares? is obama, biden/palin? no.

AlanŽ
09-29-2008, 02:00 PM
what does this have to do w/ topic? well mccain wants 95% of america to pay more taxes then obama :rolleyes: who the f*ck cares? is obama, biden/palin? no.
Paul you amaze me sometimes. You bring up stuff OT it then gets shot down and you go "what does that have to do with the topic". IDK you tell me you're the one making bs ass statements like that.

EDIT: BTW according to whatever article was posted up awhile back once you add in all of Obama's new programs you still end up with less under Obama. Again let's think about this Paul. 99% of businesses operating inside of the U.S. are small businesses. They provide most of the jobs in the country. The average small business owner in '06 was making 235k roughly which means there are plenty small business owners making over Obama's coveted $250K mark. Obama wants to raise taxes on people who make $250K a year (Small business owners) what do you think will happen to jobs in this country?

Here in lies the fundamental difference between the two canidates. Do we help the little people by suffocating the "evil rich". Or do we help everyone but reward those who are succesful a little more.

Think of it this way. You're doing a partner project in school. You do the brunt of the work while you're partner does just what he is asked if that much. Who out of the two should reap the rewards?

4dmin
09-29-2008, 02:02 PM
Paul you amaze me sometimes. You bring up stuff OT it then gets shot down and you go "what does that have to do with the topic". IDK you tell me you're the one making bs ass statements like that.

i try to stay on topic as much as possible... we are talking about biden/palin and you want to discuss tax plans w/o mentioning topic at hand. who is not on topic? nice try.

highspeed
09-29-2008, 10:29 PM
palin wins.............beauty>democrat lol

Vteckidd
09-30-2008, 03:30 AM
what does this have to do w/ topic? well mccain wants 95% of america to pay more taxes then obama :rolleyes: who the f*ck cares? is obama, biden/palin? no.
Answer me this, cause none of you seem to be able to.

If Mccain is for KEEPING the BUSH TAX CUTS ALREADY IN PLACE, and is GIVING EVERYONE A TAX BREAK

How is OBAMA LETTING THE TAX CUTS EXPIRE and then giving you his OWN TAX CUT better?

see this is where the rhetoric gets big. Obama is hiding behind this "i wont raise taxes" when he really means is "i will let EXISTING tax cuts EXPIRE, see , i didnt RAISE taxes i just didnt renew the already existing ones"

RandomGuy
09-30-2008, 04:21 AM
dunno, biden is pretty ruthless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XberX_t-WvI


honestly i like his style

4dmin
09-30-2008, 08:12 AM
Answer me this, cause none of you seem to be able to.

If Mccain is for KEEPING the BUSH TAX CUTS ALREADY IN PLACE, and is GIVING EVERYONE A TAX BREAK

How is OBAMA LETTING THE TAX CUTS EXPIRE and then giving you his OWN TAX CUT better?

see this is where the rhetoric gets big. Obama is hiding behind this "i wont raise taxes" when he really means is "i will let EXISTING tax cuts EXPIRE, see , i didnt RAISE taxes i just didnt renew the already existing ones"

yes its better why? b/c obamas plan actually brings in money. i love how reps try to down play the fact that bush tax cuts have failed the economy... economy has grown more in the previous years but not at a rate to keep us from borrowing on an unlimited credit card to countries like china thus putting us in debt. now bush and possibly mccain wants to push this debt off on our children... that makes a whole lot of sense.

i'm done w/ this thread see you guys after the debate. if history repreats itself you will be eating your words.

Total_Blender
09-30-2008, 01:20 PM
I hear that Biden has been practicing for the debate with someone who has a very similar debating style to Palin. Wonder who that could be?

http://www.breakitdownblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/miss_south_carolina.jpg

:lmfao:

bigdare23
09-30-2008, 02:05 PM
Or do we help everyone but reward those who are succesful a little more.




:thinking:
I still don't see how giving rich people a larger profit helps everyone.

alpine_aw11
10-02-2008, 08:22 PM
:thinking:
I still don't see how giving rich people a larger profit helps everyone.

It's not "giving" them more money, it's letting them keep more of what they make. Everyone else gets helped too, so that's not a good point.

Who else is watching this? Palin looks scared ****less.

AirMax95
10-02-2008, 08:32 PM
I am!

I bet she wet herself. Biden is slamming her, even when she throws the slight Obama/Biden disagreements in the air. The guy has experience in debates.

She honestly sounds scared with a script, lol. She needs to pull that psycho soccer mom personality out.

Vteckidd
10-02-2008, 08:37 PM
I have to give it to biden he's good. He's got a plethra of facts and she just doesn't have it. She's not bringing up barney frank, raines, biden deserves to win

alpine_aw11
10-02-2008, 08:37 PM
I am!

I bet she wet herself. Biden is slamming her, even when she throws the slight Obama/Biden disagreements in the air. The guy has experience in debates.

She honestly sounds scared with a script, lol. She needs to pull that psycho soccer mom personality out.

It hasn't been quite as bad as I thought so far, but Biden is clearly ahead right now. The psyco thing isn't going to work because she's just going to keep getting owned, she really doesn't know what she's talking about.

twinj
10-02-2008, 08:58 PM
At times it just seems like she is just clueless.

alpine_aw11
10-02-2008, 09:02 PM
I am!

I bet she wet herself. Biden is slamming her, even when she throws the slight Obama/Biden disagreements in the air. The guy has experience in debates.

She honestly sounds scared with a script, lol. She needs to pull that psycho soccer mom personality out.

It hasn't been quite as bad as I thought so far, but Biden is clearly ahead right now. The psyco thing isn't going to work because she's just going to keep getting owned, she really doesn't know what she's talking about.

XLR8NMR2
10-02-2008, 09:15 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v363/Xlr8nMr2/jpicskh1RNbDdAhifPjv.gif

mmmmpsi
10-02-2008, 09:26 PM
As far as I'm concerned her personality and looks and down to earth demore is what I like.. Biden had to come out and bury her in this debate and he didn't at all... She's much more exciting and much more personable.. People talk of change and she is the CHANGE that this country needs..

tony
10-02-2008, 09:44 PM
Palin maintained, didn't do anything dumb so I will have to say that would be a victory for her.

As far as the debate, Biden won but that was to be expected. Palin met or exceeded expectations. It was not a game changing performance for either campaign though.

AlanŽ
10-02-2008, 09:44 PM
All she had to do was do what Obama did last week.All she had to do was go in and not look like a complete idiot and she would be find and you know what she did that.

Vteckidd
10-02-2008, 09:45 PM
ok I think she did much better second half. Biden is clearly a better debater and I have a new found respect for him he was a class act an not a whiner like obama. I'd say Palin had no screw ups but failed to hammer on certain issues. But I think its hard to say who won. She has a totally different style and I think you see her for who she is. Biden is much more polished though

1SICKLEX
10-02-2008, 09:49 PM
It wasn't even close. Biden destroyed her.

She gave a "shout out" so a lot of people here will probably vote for her, lol

BB1_Luda
10-02-2008, 09:53 PM
She gave a "shout out" so a lot of people here will probably vote for her, lol
Them little kids in Alaska gonna get extra credit for watching the debate.
lulz!

alpine_aw11
10-02-2008, 09:57 PM
ok I think she did much better second half. Biden is clearly a better debater and I have a new found respect for him he was a class act an not a whiner like obama. I'd say Palin had no screw ups but failed to hammer on certain issues. But I think its hard to say who won. She has a totally different style and I think you see her for who she is. Biden is much more polished though

I agree completely. My expectations(other than Biden technically winning) were COMPLETELY off. I thought Biden was going to rip her to shreds, but he was very respectful. Palin held her own, she obviously could never keep up as far as purely factual info is concerned, Biden is damn good. He's the best debater out of all four candidates by far imo. But she did the right thing in maintaining her image and not owning herself. I like both of them a lot more after this debate.

AlanŽ
10-02-2008, 09:58 PM
At least out of the 4 of them she hit on the SBO point a little better.

XLR8NMR2
10-02-2008, 10:05 PM
If you watched the debate closely you can clearly see that if there were any problems with the next president Joe biden is way more fit to become president over Palin. Biden looked like he had his facts straight and his answers were alot more in depth.

Palin just proved if the republicans were elected it would just be another bush term.

JConner
10-02-2008, 10:14 PM
I just wish when the topic of global warming came up she would have said "there is no such thing as man-made global warming!" Man-made global warming is a scam to redistribute money. Those of you that have taken basic astronomy classes will know that the sun goes through cycles. Most people do not know this so they believe this "global warming" bull****.

AlanŽ
10-02-2008, 10:16 PM
I just wish when the topic of global warming came up she would have said "there is no such thing as man-made global warming!" Man-made global warming is a scam to redistribute money. Those of you that have taken basic astronomy classes will know that the sun goes through cycles. Most people do not know this so they believe this "global warming" bull****.
Dude you don't even have to take Astronomy. Take Western Civ and you will find out how much of scam Global Warming.

alpine_aw11
10-02-2008, 10:17 PM
I just wish when the topic of global warming came up she would have said "there is no such thing as man-made global warming!" Man-made global warming is a scam to redistribute money. Those of you that have taken basic astronomy classes will know that the sun goes through cycles. Most people do not know this so they believe this "global warming" bull****.

As much as I agree with you, that would be political suicide. Like when she was asked about what the cause of the lending crisis was. A part of me wanted the dumbass citizens who overextended their incomes to be mentioned, but we all know honesty is not a virtue with politicians. Gotta play to the general population's ignorance.

JConner
10-02-2008, 10:18 PM
Dude you don't even have to take Astronomy. Take Western Civ and you will find out how much of scam Global Warming.


:cheers:

Shibby
10-02-2008, 10:20 PM
check sig

JConner
10-02-2008, 10:20 PM
As much as I agree with you, that would be political suicide. Like when she was asked about what the cause of the lending crisis was. A part of me wanted the dumbass citizens who overextended their incomes to be mentioned, but we all know honesty is not a virtue with politicians. Gotta play to the general population's ignorance.


I agree, that would be suicide. She has said it publically in the past though...

The sun goes through(on average) cycles every 11 years. And guess what? There have been very few sunspots this year, so next year you will hear "OMG we are about to enter the next ice age, we must warm the Earth!!!!!"

mmmmpsi
10-02-2008, 10:21 PM
If you watched the debate closely you can clearly see that if there were any problems with the next president Joe biden is way more fit to become president over Palin. Biden looked like he had his facts straight and his answers were alot more in depth.

Palin just proved if the republicans were elected it would just be another bush term.

All Biden is, is a numbers machine.. he's been in politics so long he has no idea where he stands on issues.. She is a people person and definitely came across as someone you could really relate to. Sure she doesn't know numbers and percentages the same way Biden does but there are other people in the administration who would take care of that..

The point is that Biden kept attacking her over and over again about Bush.. McCain is NOT Bush, period. And she kept out of the corner exactly like she should have.. I'd have to say that was definitely the biggest night of her life and she handled it perfectly IMO.. She kept questioning Bidens flipping of opinions which is excellent because we all know that politicians do it all the time.

Very good debate, very entertaining..

mmmmpsi
10-02-2008, 10:23 PM
It's funny the question of Immigration that never came up.. I would have liked to hear their stance on that..

Let's face the facts.. How many times has a Vice President needed to become president.. I know it happened in Air Force One. hehehehe

tony
10-02-2008, 10:26 PM
The point is that Biden kept attacking her over and over again about Bush..

The hell? Biden didn't attack her once, if he addressed a discrepancy he mentioned McCain and not her.

stephen
10-02-2008, 10:28 PM
I just wish when the topic of global warming came up she would have said "there is no such thing as man-made global warming!" Man-made global warming is a scam to redistribute money. Those of you that have taken basic astronomy classes will know that the sun goes through cycles. Most people do not know this so they believe this "global warming" bull****.


agreed. i think the idea is for pollution control though. telling ppl "the earth will cook you if we continue to pollute!" has a bigger effect than just saying "we're destroying our air quality."

to stay on topic though...palin didn't do too bad. the sad part is, that's only compared to how terrible she's been doing lately. she sure did say a mouthful when she said "i've only been at this for 5 weeks, i haven't made any policies/promises..." that's the "fundamental" difference between her experience and obama/biden/mccain.

Kevykev
10-02-2008, 10:37 PM
Up until Yesterday I thought Biden was going to destroy her BUT he could NOT take that approach for reasons that we ALL should know, he had to practice restraint and he did that well- Even when Palin took a blow at him he still maintained.

Palin Surprised myself along with most of the viewers. She did well and i like the way she looked at Biden when stating her side of the deal. After taking the Biden restraint into consideration I knew that she was going to be able to do better than most expected.

In my opinion, Palin's speech lacked substance and did a better job at proving herself rather than Mccain. Her speeches are too redundant with the usage of the words "Maverick, Ruffling Feathers, REFORM REFORM REFORM!!!" Her answered seem memorized and rehearsed.

Biden did a better job of showing true substance and showed less rehearsal and more experience. That part when he got emotional probably scored some points. He failed to defend his position on the point where he stated that Obama was not ready to lead.

Very Good debate, some people wanted it to be a grudge match but it wasn't (Good or bad) :)



ok I think she did much better second half +1 PALIN. Biden is clearly a better debater +1 BIDEN and I have a new found respect for him he was a class act an not a whiner like obama +1 Biden. I'd say Palin had no screw ups +1Palin but failed to hammer on certain issues-1 Palin. But I think its hard to say who won. She has a totally different style and I think you see her for who she is. Biden is much more polished though +1Biden

Palin- | (maybe 2 if seeing her for who she is is +1)
Biden- |||

It's clear ;)

AlanŽ
10-02-2008, 10:39 PM
The hell? Biden didn't attack her once, if he addressed a discrepancy he mentioned McCain and not her.
I get what he meant. He was talking about how Biden kept going after her about their ticket being "no different"

drpepper14
10-02-2008, 10:40 PM
I felt like both vp candidates were actually really respectful of each other and I never saw a true attack on either one personally.

All I have to say is that I was completely taken by surprise when at the end of the debate, Sarah Palin had not completely fallen flat on her face and actually had answers to questions this time around.

XLR8NMR2
10-02-2008, 10:41 PM
I just wish when the topic of global warming came up she would have said "there is no such thing as man-made global warming!" Man-made global warming is a scam to redistribute money. Those of you that have taken basic astronomy classes will know that the sun goes through cycles. Most people do not know this so they believe this "global warming" bull****.

Global warming is no scam?...Your going to tell me that our carbon dioxide output and smog won't have any effect at all on the temperature of the earths atmosphere...

Scientist saying " It's just a cycle" could be right but the fact is The ice caps are melting at a climbing rate and were definitely not doing anything to help the situation.

BanginJimmy
10-02-2008, 10:41 PM
Biden won it technically, but he needed to hammer her and he didnt do it. Maybe he held back in case McCain won the election, or maybe Palin wasnt falling for his traps, I dont know. In the end I see this, and I think many other people will see this as a draw at worst, or a win for Palin.

Biden was a MUCH better debater and he knew all of the numbers. Palin came off as exactly what OBAMA has been preaching. Someone dedicated to change the atmosphere of corruption in Washington and on Wall St. Palin didnt go far enough with the lending issues, she should have mentioned Franks and his comments. Obama and Biden have pocketed huge sums of money from the FM's, yet no one is calling them on it. Maybe McCain is just as guilty, I dont know.

So, IMO Palin wins by default.

stephen
10-02-2008, 10:43 PM
I get what he meant. He was talking about how Biden kept going after her about their ticket being "no different"

that was more defensive than anything. think about how many times palin made references to "do you want a ticket that will*blah blah blah* or a ticket that will *blah blah blah*?"

lol, the only real attack he had (and a good one too), was where he finished some statement saying "...now that's the ultimate bridge to no-where!"

drpepper14
10-02-2008, 10:44 PM
There is no debating the levels of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere has increased tenfold in recent years, but global warming/cooling cycles have been around forever and is more than likely the explanation for recent temperature changes.

I give Palin the win by default also as BanginJimmy stated

AlanŽ
10-02-2008, 10:44 PM
that was more defensive than anything. think about how many times palin made references to "do you want a ticket that will*blah blah blah* or a ticket that will *blah blah blah*?"

lol, the only real attack he had (and a good one too), was where he finished some statement saying "...now that's the ultimate bridge to no-where!"
he opened a few statements with comments like that though.

alpine_aw11
10-02-2008, 10:45 PM
Global warming is no scam?...Your going to tell me that our carbon dioxide output and smog won't have any effect at all on the temperature of the earths atmosphere...

Scientist saying " It's just a cycle" could be right but the fact is The ice caps are melting at a climbing rate and were definitely not doing anything to help the situation.

Yes, global warming is an outright scam. There isn't even close to enough scientific evidence to prove that we're causing it. REAL scientists who denounce global warming are silenced and ignored by idiots like Al Gore who fly their private plans to schools and state things like "no scientists disagree that global warming is man-made." I could go on and on, but that's for another thread.

JConner
10-02-2008, 10:45 PM
Global warming is no scam?...Your going to tell me that our carbon dioxide output and smog won't have any effect at all on the temperature of the earths atmosphere...

Scientist saying " It's just a cycle" could be right but the fact is The ice caps are melting at a climbing rate and were definitely not doing anything to help the situation.


The ice caps are not melting and the polar bears are not dying. You are one of those people that believes everything you hear and falls for this nonsense. Do some research on your own.

Edit: oh and quit watching Al Gore's movie.

drpepper14
10-02-2008, 10:45 PM
that was more defensive than anything. think about how many times palin made references to "do you want a ticket that will*blah blah blah* or a ticket that will *blah blah blah*?"

lol, the only real attack he had (and a good one too), was where he finished some statement saying "...now that's the ultimate bridge to no-where!"

I don't think that was so much an attack as it was a snide comment to get a couple of laughs and lighten things up. I thought they both did a great job of keeping the mood light, and Palin commended Senator Biden repeatedly for issues he had stood up for or things he had done.....so overall it was a very civil debate

stephen
10-02-2008, 10:48 PM
... Palin didnt go far enough with the lending issues, she should have mentioned Franks and his comments. Obama and Biden have pocketed huge sums of money from the FM's, yet no one is calling them on it. Maybe McCain is just as guilty, I dont know.

mccain is just as guilty, that's why they both left it alone. mccain's financial advisor was a MORTGAGE LOBBYIST for some swiss bank (that was investing in the american lending market). yeeeaaah....so i'm sure he had some great finanacial advice...

JConner
10-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Yes, global warming is an outright scam. There isn't even close to enough scientific evidence to prove that we're causing it. REAL scientists who denounce global warming are silenced and ignored by idiots like Al Gore who fly their private plans to schools and state things like "no scientists disagree that global warming is man-made." I could go on and on, but that's for another thread.


thank yoU! and sorry to the thread starter, i think we got off topic. lol

stephen
10-02-2008, 11:03 PM
he opened a few statements with comments like that though.


true, but my point was that he wasn't making any true attacks. comparing their ticket stats to known facts isn't really an attack. much like when she compared the two tickets, it wasn't an attack...she just gave "opinionated truths" and with SLIGHT facts.

lol, she did jam his foot in his mouth with comments that he made about obama during the primary debate. that was pretty funny. he should've just said "look...he was my opponent. i was attempting to win!" she almost ruined it though, by saying that afterwards he wanted to run with mccain. mccain did the samething after he lost back in 2000. he was ready to jump independent, then democrat...even wanted to run with kerry. either way, that's just politics, and striving to be top dog or atleast #2.

Vteckidd
10-02-2008, 11:22 PM
am I the only one that was waiting for her to say
"look you can either look at him, or these for the next four years*rips shirt open exposing magnificent ta tas *

/debate

JConner
10-02-2008, 11:25 PM
am I the only one that was waiting for her to say
"look you can either look at him, or these for the next four years*rips shirt open exposing magnificent ta tas *

/debate


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mr. KiDD again.

hahahahahahahha

man
10-03-2008, 12:16 AM
am I the only one that was waiting for her to say
"look you can either look at him, or these for the next four years*rips shirt open exposing magnificent ta tas *

/debate

Isn't that what Fox is for???

bigdare23
10-03-2008, 01:01 AM
I had a good laugh watching this debate.


Palin did great at not answering the question at hand. Seem like every question was answered with some type of...... energy answer. Atleast she knows her energy. LOL

metalman
10-03-2008, 07:25 AM
Palin did great at not answering the question at hand.

Actually Biden did the same. I think the final score was like 10 to 6.
Not answering questions is typical politician behavior...and frankly, in many circumstances required given the stupid nature of some reporters questions.

jwrape
10-03-2008, 07:34 AM
I watched the entire thing and didn't see a clear winner. I think they both hit their queues and made their points.
The one thing I did notice is that McCain's name was mentioned by both VP's WAY more than Obama's name was. Biden himself said McCain's name 62 times per the news. If you think about name recognition and how commercials work with repeating the name they want you to remember, I think McCain got more name advertising through that 90 minutes. LOL!

4dmin
10-03-2008, 07:49 AM
ok I think she did much better second half. Biden is clearly a better debater and I have a new found respect for him he was a class act an not a whiner like obama. I'd say Palin had no screw ups but failed to hammer on certain issues. But I think its hard to say who won. She has a totally different style and I think you see her for who she is. Biden is much more polished though

Palin did good at not screwing up. A lot of answers were regurgitated/rehearsed answers that weren't on topic. I find myself getting lost when she speaks. It is very difficult for me to listen to people who regurgitate the same responses "Na-eva-te". Biden seemed to know more about McCains record then she did. I think couple comments that stuck out w/ me were "I've only been at this for 5 weeks". Definately on the lines of Couric interview. Also did McCain/Palin now endorse rights for Gays? :thinking: She made it sound that way.

Biden did and excellent job speaking. Walking a fine line of attack - I think he was more frustrated with the fact she couldn't stay on topic. I think his biggest problem was loosing people once he got indepth into policy; I think people who don't follow politics get bored w/ policy.

Overall both did good neither will change the race but Biden was by far the winner. It was a debate.

Kevykev
10-03-2008, 08:20 AM
i was shocked when Palin gave an actually "Shout out." God forbid Obama ever do that, he will definitely under all conditions be labeled as "black" then.

She's a country girl.

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 09:51 AM
the only problem i had with biden was he was more factual, but his facts were wrong.

Unfortunetly the mainstream media prob wont point that out.

He was wrong about Mccain voting against the funding of troops with obama

he was wrong about him voting FOR the war and attacking Obama it was a war resolution

there was like 5 others that both Dems and Repubs had him on last night .

I agree with paul if you are looking at DEBATE winner, Biden by a landslide.

But it remains to be seen if thats what people were really looking for.

That focus group said they thought BIden was too much of a robot and they liked how Palin seemed to talk to them.

Interesting for sure.

One thing i will re-iterate is that i have a new found respect for BIden. His policies suck, but i commend him for being polite and respectfull unlike his running mate.

4dmin
10-03-2008, 10:00 AM
the only problem i had with biden was he was more factual, but his facts were wrong.

Unfortunetly the mainstream media prob wont point that out.

He was wrong about Mccain voting against the funding of troops with obama

he was wrong about him voting FOR the war and attacking Obama it was a war resolution

there was like 5 others that both Dems and Repubs had him on last night .

I agree with paul if you are looking at DEBATE winner, Biden by a landslide.

But it remains to be seen if thats what people were really looking for.

That focus group said they thought BIden was too much of a robot and they liked how Palin seemed to talk to them.

Interesting for sure.

One thing i will re-iterate is that i have a new found respect for BIden. His policies suck, but i commend him for being polite and respectfull unlike his running mate.

actually mccain did vote against funding a couple of times see his voting record. i have stated this before. he voted against every bill that would seek to bring some sort of a time line to iraq.

honestly i wish the gloves came off b/c biden could of tore her apart and she wouldn't of been able to defend herself against him, but of course sympathy card would of been played. looking at the two side by side biden is a far superior choice for VP. i think it was smart for obama to pick him b/c he give lots of strength to the campaign. palin i think is dead weight when it comes to the ticket. she is a pretty face (period). i think she will be a better contender for 2012. i wouldn't be highly surprised to see her make a run at it once she gets more experience under her belt. (i'm sure some will say the same about obama - but you can't compare the two. its a mute point)

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 10:13 AM
actually mccain did vote against funding a couple of times see his voting record. i have stated this before. he voted against every bill that would seek to bring some sort of a time line to iraq.

honestly i wish the gloves came off b/c biden could of tore her apart and she wouldn't of been able to defend herself against him, but of course sympathy card would of been played. looking at the two side by side biden is a far superior choice for VP. i think it was smart for obama to pick him b/c he give lots of strength to the campaign. palin i think is dead weight when it comes to the ticket. she is a pretty face (period). i think she will be a better contender for 2012. i wouldn't be highly surprised to see her make a run at it once she gets more experience under her belt. (i'm sure some will say the same about obama - but you can't compare the two. its a mute point)
not to get off topic

but im sorry i dont think so

#
Voting Record
# Congress has no authority to cut off funds for Iraqi use. (Jan 2007)
# Voted NO on redeploying non-essential US troops out of Iraq in 9 months. (Dec 2007)
# Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
# Voted NO on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
# Voted YES on requiring on-budget funding for Iraq, not emergency funding. (Apr 2005)
# Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
# Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
# Voted NO on allowing all necessary force in Kosovo. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
# Voted YES on ending the Bosnian arms embargo. (Jul 1995)
# Supports $48 billion in new spending for anti-terrorism. (Jan 2002)
# CIA assessments ib Iraqi WMDs were all wrong. (Mar 2005)
# Belief in Iraqi nukes was poor analysis of aluminum tubes. (Mar 2005)
# Belief in Iraqi BWs was based on one unreliable person. (Mar 2005)
# Belief in Iraqi CWs was based on flawed imagery. (Mar 2005)
# Iraq never had delivery systems to attack US mainland. (Mar 2005)
# CIA never questioned assumption that Saddam had WMDs. (Mar 2005)
# Conclusions on Iran and North Korea are all classified. (Mar 2005)
# Support the completion of the US mission in Iraq. (Feb 2007)
# Move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. (Nov 1995)

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 10:22 AM
you know what, i think the main problem is there is so many fu.cking votes on 17 different versions of the bill its hard to find what really happened.

Obama voted no cause it had no TIMELINE which is what he wanted , so he wasnte neccesarily cutting funding off.

Mccain actually did a NO VOTE on the issue.

hmmmmmmmm

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=19356

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 10:24 AM
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=19354

Biden voted yes! LOL

confusing that is for sure

BobbyFresco
10-03-2008, 10:37 AM
I was honestly surprised by both the debate last night and the reactions in this thread.
I think Palin held her own, however, I feel like she diverged from the questions at times, and was also a bit redundant. Biden did as expected and he came off confident and strong all without being an *******.

It was an interesting debate to say the least. My only complaint is that it would be great to see them debate a few more times.

joecoolfreak
10-03-2008, 10:44 AM
Actually, McCain voted against funding for troops in regards to HR 1591 in 2007 - Source (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00126)

He voted against funding for troops in regards to HR 4939 in 2006 - Source (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2006-112)

The point is that both parties have voted against funding for troops for perfectly good reasons, not because they are trying to deny troops funds.

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 10:57 AM
Did anyone else have their heart skip a beat last night when Biden/Obama said he want to allow people who don't pay their bills to have the principle on their mortgage reduced!?!!??!?!?!??! I mean seriously, how much more communist can you get?

"BIDEN SAID "We should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to readjust, not just the interest rate you are paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but in -- be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that that you owe. That would keep people in their homes"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics...age=1

AlanŽ
10-03-2008, 10:58 AM
Did anyone else have their heart skip a beat last night when Biden/Obama said he want to allow people who don't pay their bills to have the principle on their mortgage reduced!?!!??!?!?!??! I mean seriously, how much more communist can you get?

"BIDEN SAID "We should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to readjust, not just the interest rate you are paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but in -- be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that that you owe. That would keep people in their homes"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics...age=1
Yup I did. Hence why I don't want the bailout

4dmin
10-03-2008, 10:58 AM
Actually, McCain voted against funding for troops in regards to HR 1591 in 2007 - Source (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00126)

He voted against funding for troops in regards to HR 4939 in 2006 - Source (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2006-112)

The point is that both parties have voted against funding for troops for perfectly good reasons, not because they are trying to deny troops funds.

thanks...

the problem w/ the funding troops is a "fundamental difference" :D

reps refused to put a time line on war (now bush is doing that anyway), dems wanted time line b/c they don't feel Iraqis are pulling their weight and that we aren't over there for the right reasons. so they want a time line.

reps don't vote for dems supported bills - reps make bills w/o time line and if dems don't vote then they are unpatriotic. its a vicious cycle of politics.

doesn't matter either way time line is needed. people are disillusioned about the war and want it over. we should be focusing on Afghanistan; which is where Bin Ladin is.

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 11:02 AM
It was an interesting debate to say the least. My only complaint is that it would be great to see them debate a few more times.
i agree , wow, holy sh!t

AlanŽ
10-03-2008, 11:07 AM
thanks...

the problem w/ the funding troops is a "fundamental difference" :D

reps refused to put a time line on war (now bush is doing that anyway), dems wanted time line b/c they don't feel Iraqis are pulling their weight and that we aren't over there for the right reasons. so they want a time line.

reps don't vote for dems supported bills - reps make bills w/o time line and if dems don't vote then they are unpatriotic. its a vicious cycle of politics.

doesn't matter either way time line is needed. people are disillusioned about the war and want it over. we should be focusing on Afghanistan; which is where Bin Ladin is.
I'm sorry but if you can tell me 1 just 1 war in the history of this country that has had a time table that has been successful then I might be able to support one. But the fact of the matter is that we didn't have a timetable for the revolution, the civil war,or either world wars.Their over when they're over.

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 11:14 AM
thanks...

the problem w/ the funding troops is a "fundamental difference" :D

reps refused to put a time line on war (now bush is doing that anyway), dems wanted time line b/c they don't feel Iraqis are pulling their weight and that we aren't over there for the right reasons. so they want a time line.

reps don't vote for dems supported bills - reps make bills w/o time line and if dems don't vote then they are unpatriotic. its a vicious cycle of politics.

I agree 100%. Dont bother showing me a voting record unless you can show me the bills also. There are so many otherwise good bills that members of congress vote 'NO' on because of a single point of principle. Like the war funding bills that both McCain and Obama are getting hammered on, the "NO" votes from both came because of the debate over a timeline, not funding.


doesn't matter either way time line is needed.

I dont think a timeline is needed, but a definative list of goals is needed. A big part of the problem over there is who to trust. There have been many instances of police and soldiers turning on Iraqis and Americans so no one wants to move too fast on turning over districts to Iraqi control.



people are disillusioned about the war and want it over.

I think most of that comes from the heavily antiwar biased news coverage we have gotten from the MSM. They never seem to mention all of the good that is happening and only mention the bad.



we should be focusing on Afghanistan; which is where Bin Ladin is.

If he is even in Afghanistan. I think the chances are better that he is in Pakistan. He is safe from spies and troops there because the Pakistani govt refuses to go into that region. Even if he was in Afghanistan, the only way the US would find him in those mountians is by pure luck.

4dmin
10-03-2008, 11:14 AM
I'm sorry but if you can tell me 1 just 1 war in the history of this country that has had a time table that has been successful then I might be able to support one. But the fact of the matter is that we didn't have a timetable for the revolution, the civil war,or either world wars.Their over when they're over.

how about i give you one we didn't have a plan or a timeline for? vietnam - does that ring a bell ya. exact reason why a plan/timeline is needed.

you are trying to argue like iraq has a purpose. we all know administration basically lied to get us into iraq and it hasn't helped the economy one bit.

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 11:17 AM
how about i give you one we didn't have a plan or a timeline for? vietnam - does that ring a bell ya. exact reason why a plan/timeline is needed.

I have a different idea about Vietnam. It was the only other war that was used as a political tool. War needs to be handled by Generals, not Senators. I thought we learned that during Viatman, but aparently we havent.

4dmin
10-03-2008, 11:18 AM
If he is even in Afghanistan. I think the chances are better that he is in Pakistan. He is safe from spies and troops there because the Pakistani govt refuses to go into that region. Even if he was in Afghanistan, the only way the US would find him in those mountians is by pure luck.

too much to discuss but plain and simple we shouldn't be in iraq to begin with.

this is problem w/ this type of thinking... WE DON'T KNOW where he is b/c we shifted our efforts to a country that had nothing to do w/ reason we are in the middle east. what do you expect? point is we need to get back on task and seek out Bin Ladin starting in Afghanistan or we need to hang up our boots and work on our efforts home. IMO


I have a different idea about Vietnam. It was the only other war that was used as a political tool. War needs to be handled by Generals, not Senators. I thought we learned that during Viatman, but aparently we havent. Generals are puppets to politicians. Agendas come from washington and generals carry out the task. Its that simple.

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 11:30 AM
we all know administration basically lied to get us into iraq and it hasn't helped the economy one bit.
Dont rewrite history.

80% of Congress was in favor of the war

We DID NOT go to IRAQ over 9/11

We DID NOT go to IRAQ over WMD

I wonder what the number of JOBS CREATED because of the war are......

4dmin
10-03-2008, 11:39 AM
Dont rewrite history.

80% of Congress was in favor of the war

We DID NOT go to IRAQ over 9/11

We DID NOT go to IRAQ over WMD

I wonder what the number of JOBS CREATED because of the war are......

80% is an easy number considering we were told of involvement in 9/11 + WMD ;)

like i said this a topic that isn't worth discussing.

I also wonder what kind of jobs we could of created w/ the money from Iraq. Would of paid for this bailout plan.

AlanŽ
10-03-2008, 11:51 AM
how about i give you one we didn't have a plan or a timeline for? vietnam - does that ring a bell ya. exact reason why a plan/timeline is needed.

you are trying to argue like iraq has a purpose. we all know administration basically lied to get us into iraq and it hasn't helped the economy one bit.
Wow. One failed war in the history of the country :rolleyes: . Again Show me a war where we have had a successful timetable and I will eat my own words.

It doesn't matter if Iraq has a purpose or not at this point. We are too far into be arguing about this. What's done is done. If we don't finish the job it will be disastrous for the national security of this country. Again and I have been arguing this till I'm blue in the face. If we do in Iraq what we did in Afghanistan way back when there will be serious repricusions.

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 12:10 PM
It doesn't matter if Iraq has a purpose or not at this point. We are too far into be arguing about this. What's done is done. If we don't finish the job it will be disastrous for the national security of this country.


This is exactly why I quit talking about what got us into Iraq. It no longer matters and unless we finish the correct way, we will be back again in 5 years to try to fix a bigger mess than me ever had to start with.

AlanŽ
10-03-2008, 12:17 PM
This is exactly why I quit talking about what got us into Iraq. It no longer matters and unless we finish the correct way, we will be back again in 5 years to try to fix a bigger mess than me ever had to start with.
Yup. But unfortunately the majority of the citizens simply don't see it that's way. I watched the debate on my least favorite network CNN and everytime Palin talked about Iraq and how we needed to finish the needle just plunged. People are too short sighted to see it's too late and that we need to finish.

4dmin
10-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Yup. But unfortunately the majority of the citizens simply don't see it that's way. I watched the debate on my least favorite network CNN and everytime Palin talked about Iraq and how we needed to finish the needle just plunged. People are too short sighted to see it's too late and that we need to finish.

war w/o purpose is a failed war. there is no successful war anyway.

but obviously many people other then you two think this war is pointless and it is... you can't stop fighting that has been going on for 1000s of years over night. by your thinking we will be there till doomsday. we have no interest in being there.

this war has done nothing but cost us. you want to go to war drop 1 f*cking bomb and call it a day. save tax payers 500+ billion dollars so we can get this economy back on track.

rehab
10-03-2008, 02:15 PM
I didn't watch the debate completely because of work but it sounds like Biden stuck to the facts while Palin was steering her way around the questions. But at the same time Palin did well because everyone set the bar soo low.

The highlights that I saw were obvious that Biden performed well while Palin sounded annoying and scripted.

Here is what the CNN poll says...


Who fared better in the vice presidential debate?
Sen. Joe Biden 66% 350668
Gov. Sarah Palin 28% 149739
Neither 5% 28826
Total Votes: 529233

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 02:17 PM
I didn't watch the debate completely because of work but it sounds like Biden stuck to the facts while Palin was steering her way around the questions. But at the same time Palin did well because everyone set the bar soo low.

The highlights that I saw were obvious that Biden performed well while Palin sounded annoying and scripted.

Here is what the CNN poll says...


Who fared better in the vice presidential debate?
Sen. Joe Biden 66% 350668
Gov. Sarah Palin 28% 149739
Neither 5% 28826
Total Votes: 529233
yeah but FOX had them at

86% Palin
12% Biden

so you cant go by those

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 02:17 PM
I am watching last nights Hannity and Combs, I watched an Obama supporter get slammed cause she had to admit that she didnt know that the bottom 50% of tax payers pay only 2.9% of all taxes.

How is the top 50%'s share of the tax burden equals 97.1% of the taxes? I really dont agree that I would call that fair as Biden does.

rehab
10-03-2008, 02:29 PM
yeah but FOX had them at

86% Palin
12% Biden

so you cant go by those
How dare somebody disagree with teh almighty F O X News.

CBS had a similar poll but at least acknowledged that they were mostly Obama supporters. Then they asked for people in the group that thought Palin did better. Conveniently, two of them were up front right by the announcer.

One was a vet who said the exact opposite of "it sounds like Biden stuck to the facts while Palin was steering her way around the questions." The reporter then asked where he was from and when he said Idaho (or some other state that is considered irrelevant) you could almost feel the distain oozing from the studio.

The next person looked like an eskimo. I kept waiting for them to say she was from Alaska just so they could roll their eyes.

4dmin
10-03-2008, 02:30 PM
yeah but FOX had them at

86% Palin
12% Biden

so you cant go by those

didn't you try to state fox was least bias :thinking:

you and i both know if those were their number they must of watched the debate on MUTE.

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 02:33 PM
didn't you try to state fox was least bias :thinking:

you and i both know if those were their number they must of watched the debate on MUTE.


Depends on what you consider a win. I think anything short of a crushing defeat would be considered a Palin win by most people when you consider all of the bad press before this.

Vteckidd
10-03-2008, 02:35 PM
FOX is less bias than CNN an NBC absolutely. Fox is Middle Conservative which can appeal to Dems and Repubs

CNN and NBC are FAR LEFT

but i was saying i dont think she won that convincingly.

But again, you are assuming people agree with your views going into the debate. What matters is if the independant voter connected with Her or Biden, and the polls coming out today are showing majority connected with her.

They dont want to hear facts and policy. Which is what Biden was about.

They want to hear what Obama says, general statements that make you connect with that candidate.

Can you imagine if Biden was running against mccain?

4dmin
10-03-2008, 03:11 PM
Depends on what you consider a win. I think anything short of a crushing defeat would be considered a Palin win by most people when you consider all of the bad press before this.

this is a dumb statement... it was a DEBATE not a save face speech... did she win the DEBATE? no. she couldn't answer most of the questions and she rambled on offtopic most of the time like these forums. she did good at redeeming herself for horrible interviews and expectations were low to begin with.

if you think she won the DEBATE on answers to questions then obvious you too watched it MUTED.


But again, you are assuming people agree with your views going into the debate. What matters is if the independant voter connected with Her or Biden, and the polls coming out today are showing majority connected with her.


um obviously you must get your numbers from FOX news b/c biden clearly won by many different polls. and i would assume most independent voters dont' watch FOX they watch CNN or ABC

if biden/mccain were debating it would be 1 1/2 hours of snoring :cheers:

rehab
10-03-2008, 03:16 PM
More and more, it looks like the Biden choke-up will be the "moment" remembered in this debate, in a positive way.

I was just rewatching the video of it, and I realized why it worked so well. It's not just that he showed the emotion, but that he's able, fairly quickly, to swallow it and push through to the end of his point. It's a moment where he let his guard down, but then he just chokes it down and gets the job done, so to speak. A moment of weakness becomes a moment of strength.

And that chirping shiit follows it by jumping back onto her pointless talking points.

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 03:53 PM
this is a dumb statement... it was a DEBATE not a save face speech... did she win the DEBATE? no. she couldn't answer most of the questions and she rambled on offtopic most of the time like these forums. she did good at redeeming herself for horrible interviews and expectations were low to begin with.

if you think she won the DEBATE on answers to questions then obvious you too watched it MUTED.


no, I actually watched and listened. Just like when Obama debated McCain to a draw it was considered most to be a Obama win. I think Biden did a much better job of spouting off numbers, and Palin did a much better job of connecting with the public. She seems MUCH more genuine, while Biden is a epitome of politician.

BobbyFresco
10-03-2008, 05:51 PM
More and more, it looks like the Biden choke-up will be the "moment" remembered in this debate, in a positive way.

I was just rewatching the video of it, and I realized why it worked so well. It's not just that he showed the emotion, but that he's able, fairly quickly, to swallow it and push through to the end of his point. It's a moment where he let his guard down, but then he just chokes it down and gets the job done, so to speak. A moment of weakness becomes a moment of strength.

And that chirping shiit follows it by jumping back onto her pointless talking points.



I like the way you think.:cheers:

stephen
10-03-2008, 06:09 PM
I'm sorry but if you can tell me 1 just 1 war in the history of this country that has had a time table that has been successful then I might be able to support one. But the fact of the matter is that we didn't have a timetable for the revolution, the civil war,or either world wars.Their over when they're over.

what's the VALUE of success...that's the real question? at what point is enough, enough? think about the korean war. that's a war where we didn't continue the fight...and what was the end result??? now n. koreans are 4 inches taller than south koreans :thinking: ? there's a point where you have to draw a line in the sand. there's news that they want to build disneyland in iraq, WTF!?! ok...so let's do the math (as of 2008)...

we're spending:
$10B per month
$390,000 to deploy ONE U.S. soldier
$9B "lost & unaccounted for" U.S. TAXPAYER money
$547.9M "lost & unaccounted for" in spare parts shipped to contractors
$1B missing equipment sent to iraq security forces
$10B mismanaged and wasted in iraq (FEB 07)
$1.4B overcharges (classified by the PENTAGON as unreasonable & unsupported)

MOST IMPORTANTLY:
4,168 U.S. CASUALTIES

and iraq has a $80B surplus, while we have a $10 TRILLION debt...let me type that out.... NEGATIVE $10,000,000,000,000.00 .... and we want to stay, and build sh.it like disneyland??? someone please tell me when we've had enough.

BanginJimmy
10-03-2008, 08:21 PM
what's the VALUE of success...that's the real question? at what point is enough, enough? think about the korean war. that's a war where we didn't continue the fight...and what was the end result??? now n. koreans are 4 inches taller than south koreans :thinking: ?

Actually S. Koreans are taller than N. Koreans. N. Korea is also a cesspool with close to the lowest standard of living in the world. Rolling brownouts are the norm there as is a lack of running water and any health care.

If we would have pushed the issue in Korea and removed the communists then we wouldnt have the problems with N. Korea that we have now. As it is, we fought 8 divisions of Chinese when me made the Inchon landings.

Now look at Afghanistan. If we finished the job in the 80's and early 90's then maybe Al Queda never forms and we dont have these issues with terrorism.

Now look at Iraq. If we finished the job in '91 then we wouldnt have the problems we have today.


Notice a trend here? A very long list of the US not finishing jobs it starts and it comes back to bite us in the butt. Why should we continue to do this to ourselves? When we start a job, we need to finish it, not just give up if it might be hard.

Kevykev
10-04-2008, 08:05 AM
Why are people still voting? :)

stephen
10-04-2008, 06:55 PM
Actually S. Koreans are taller than N. Koreans. N. Korea is also a cesspool with close to the lowest standard of living in the world. Rolling brownouts are the norm there as is a lack of running water and any health care.

If we would have pushed the issue in Korea and removed the communists then we wouldnt have the problems with N. Korea that we have now. As it is, we fought 8 divisions of Chinese when me made the Inchon landings.

Now look at Afghanistan. If we finished the job in the 80's and early 90's then maybe Al Queda never forms and we dont have these issues with terrorism.

Now look at Iraq. If we finished the job in '91 then we wouldnt have the problems we have today.

Notice a trend here? A very long list of the US not finishing jobs it starts and it comes back to bite us in the butt. Why should we continue to do this to ourselves? When we start a job, we need to finish it, not just give up if it might be hard.

here's what i don't understand with some people's logic on iraq. everyone says "if we had've killed saddam back in the 90's then we wouldn't be there." not sure if ppl got the memo...but uh...he's dead now. by that logic, we achieved success back in 06'.

regardless as to who is taller or not...the point is "what's the value of success?" ok...so we didn't successfully unite north and south korea...SO! s. korea is our 4th largest trading partner & has the 13th largest economy in the world...regardless of of what issues we still have with n. korea. n. korea holds no legitimate threat to the U.S. and you know that. they fire off their missles and what not, but when's the first & last time you heard a report of some "korean terrorist" in the U.S.? the n. korean ppl have 3rd world standards of living....ok so let's spend $600B, give 4,000 U.S. troops funerals, and build a disneyland...that seems to be the right idea.

if communism is the major problem with n. korea, then what about china? are they not a communist country also? do we not borrow money from them? HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE OWE THEM? do they not have ppl living in less than ideal conditions? do they not have a MASSIVE military with insane capabilities? this notion that we have to clense the world of communism is just a lame excuse. the problem is the individual in power, not the system of government. china wasn't always this strong....chairman mao days... dude worked just like kim jong, and castro.

afghanistan...well hell, we were part of the problem. we gave them weapons and advocated al queda, so they could fight off the russians. we created our own problem, and now we're not even fighting it...we're too busy blowing up iraq.

i understand that finishing a job is important. that's more of the reason why we should be back in afghanistan and not trying to build disneyland's in iraq. we also have to understand that we create a lot of our own problems, and often go back years later and make things worse...that's the trend i notice.