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View Full Version : The disaster WAS bush's fault with PROOF



RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 09:20 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/163230/120


Yeah, that bastard.

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:25 AM
That guy is an idoit. He thinks its Bush's fault that for the last 40+ years people have warned them that more had to be done and a better levee systems had to be put in place? So from '01 on they think ANY sitting president had a plan in place for something NOL should have had in place over 40 years ago? In the last 40+ years they have faced this day and chose to not better secure the city the live in and have better plans in place, Thats not Bushs fault. And even if it wasnt Bush in office then Id say the same thing, just so you Bush Bashers know.. has nothing to do with who wasin office in '01... this has been a problem that has needed to be fixed and improved for a long time, not just since '01

WTF..kebe
09-02-2005, 09:27 AM
/\/\ very well put.....i mean they did build a city knowing that its under sea level

Pablo
09-02-2005, 09:27 AM
the guy does make valid points.

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:29 AM
What valid points? How is it any current presidents fault that the city since its been around has not better planned and better prepared for this day that would come? They knew in '01 the day would come some day, but they didnt do shit. No valid points can blame any current sitting president for what they are facing today.... No one person can be held accountable for the history of a city that didnt make sure they were better protected from a storm like this.

NOL screwed with fate for many many years, now fate came back and bit them in the ass, and now you are going to try and say Bush is liable, C'Mon

LaurenK
09-02-2005, 09:31 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/163230/120


Yeah, that bastard.
The link doesn't work...and you know what? I don't even want to read it, because it's probably all garbage any ways. Yea, it probably was Bush's fault...he created the hurricane himself. :rolleyes:

tony
09-02-2005, 09:32 AM
So the hurricane wouldn't have happened if we elected kerry?

WTF..kebe
09-02-2005, 09:33 AM
hurricanes are NATURAL disasters so how can you blame human being?

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 09:34 AM
so was that a joke?....i laughed.

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:35 AM
so was that a joke?....i laughed.

I hope so, cause if not that shows how stupid 1 human being can actually be, and thats sad then

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 09:36 AM
because there are people in this world who cant bare to live another minute unless they can blame somebody....

if were up to me, I'd ship those a-holes to canada and europe.

tony
09-02-2005, 09:36 AM
to let some people tell it bush is worse than the devil himself, the man is just pure evil

rollin_hard
09-02-2005, 09:39 AM
and everyone was flaming killpatty43

LaurenK
09-02-2005, 09:39 AM
I hope that all of you were understanding my comment...and you don't think I was saying Bush created a hurricane...I was saying it sarcastically, like...IT IS fucking ignorant to blame a natural disaster on a human being.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 09:39 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/163230/120


Yeah, that bastard.


and you posted up a page from a ANTI-Bush idiot....

this dude will probably blame global warming and penguins dying on Bush, too.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 09:40 AM
well appreantly that guy has too much time on his hands....i mean no men are perfect, i dont liek the president too much....but i respect him on such a high level......he has to make the hardest and most import decisions in the US....so yeah maybe he has done some stupid things and maybe some things that wont seem to benefit most people.....but down the line someone else would have made those decisions too.

tony
09-02-2005, 09:41 AM
anyone hear the mayor of N.O put Bush on blast though? I thought that was pretty interesting

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:41 AM
and you posted up a page from a ANTI-Bush idiot....

this dude will probably blame global warming and penguins dying on Bush, too.

Yeah cause we all know all the world problems started in 2001 when Bush came into office...lol

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 09:42 AM
and everyone was flaming killpatty43


because she's making stupid points....if Kerry were in office, she'd be saying she hates Kerry because gas prices were rising and N.O wasnt getting enough help...


she's what I like to call a "bandwagon politics idiot"

rollin_hard
09-02-2005, 09:42 AM
there is some propaganda in there but don't discredit facts cause there are other "inaccuracies". Look I voted for Bush, but that don't make his actions right.

WTF..kebe
09-02-2005, 09:42 AM
yes lauren i knew you was bein sarcastic

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:43 AM
anyone hear the mayor of N.O put Bush on blast though? I thought that was pretty interesting

Yeah but he didnt seem to admit they told thier citizens to go to a convention center by the thousands and then not let anyone in the government who is helping know they sent them there, the government found out the people were sent there yesterday by watching the news, so that mayor isnt doing a good job either. Seems to me they Mayor is passing blame

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 09:45 AM
man fuck yall :2up: Taking the artificial perspective.. you know i didnt mean literally it the HURRICANE wasn't his fault. The DISASTER was partially his fault. Read the site motherfuckers. Its about his priorities. Your beloved warmonger set his assets to his liking, and the effect of the hurricane could have been LESS DEVASTATING!. As far as relief goes and what not bitches. Even if one life would have been saved, BUSH FAILED! FUck yall and your beliefs. Only like 3 of you had valid concerns and the rest of yall are just fuckin bandwagon posters who post whats popular at the moment.


flame on

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 09:48 AM
an obviously the hurricane would've been devastating, no matter who's in power. Did you fuckers know bush sent 40% of the Louisiana Nat'l guard overseas to fight the war soo many of yall oppose.

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 09:50 AM
The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.... what? nvm hes a great leader for our country.

tony
09-02-2005, 09:51 AM
I really dont think anyone cares whose fault it is any more..(though I still dont think its bush's) He isnt the only elected official with the power to make decisions in New Orleans.

The concern is solving the mess that is going on there now.

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:51 AM
Why you getting all pissed, you didnt write the article....lol

And he sent 40% of the garurd to the war from there, well all states with bases have people in IRAQ, so we cant hold people here for a "just in case" a hurricane hits day, ya know?

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 09:52 AM
... what? nvm hes a great leader for our country.

feel more comfortable in mexico? Canada? Cuba? sound slike you dont like the US and its Leader too much....www.delta.com...they can help you book a flight

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 09:54 AM
man fuck yall :2up: Taking the artificial perspective.. you know i didnt mean literally it the HURRICANE wasn't his fault. The DISASTER was partially his fault. Read the site motherfuckers. Its about his priorities. Your beloved warmonger set his assets to his liking, and the effect of the hurricane could have been LESS DEVASTATING!. As far as relief goes and what not bitches. Even if one life would have been saved, BUSH FAILED! FUck yall and your beliefs. Only like 3 of you had valid concerns and the rest of yall are just fuckin bandwagon posters who post whats popular at the moment.


flame on


you are a idiot....who the hell do you think you are jumping off the handle and talking shit?

valid points? okay, how in the god damn way did Bush know that the N.O tragedy was gonna happen 1.5 years ago when the war started?

I bet your sorry ass would be crying your little heart out right now if we didnt goto war and Saddam launched all sorts of missle attacks at the US.

sounds to be that you wouldnt serve for your country even if drafted and would come up with a lame excuse that you have a knee injury or that you lost your penis years ago.


seriously, everyone wants to pass blame for something, how about people hold accountablilty for themselves every now and then? All these people crying and wanting help.....everyone is coming of the woodworks now, at first it was only expected that 20,000 people stayed behind instead of evacuating....but more and more people keep showing up....we are in the 40-50,000 now....where did all these people come from? did none of them have tv's or radios? can none of these people combine their money and load up and head out together to a shelter in Baton Rouge? I find that VERY hard to believe. I know for a FACT that 99% of all the Churches in Louisiana were driving their VANs around to see if anyone needed a ride out...but from what I understand, no one was taking them up on that offer.

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 09:58 AM
you are a idiot....who the hell do you think you are jumping off the handle and talking shit?

valid points? okay, how in the god damn way did Bush know that the N.O tragedy was gonna happen 1.5 years ago when the war started?

I bet your sorry ass would be crying your little heart out right now if we didnt goto war and Saddam launched all sorts of missle attacks at the US.

sounds to be that you wouldnt serve for your country even if drafted and would come up with a lame excuse that you have a knee injury or that you lost your penis years ago.


seriously, everyone wants to pass blame for something, how about people hold accountablilty for themselves every now and then? All these people crying and wanting help.....everyone is coming of the woodworks now, at first it was only expected that 20,000 people stayed behind instead of evacuating....but more and more people keep showing up....we are in the 40-50,000 now....where did all these people come from? did none of them have tv's or radios? can none of these people combine their money and load up and head out together to a shelter in Baton Rouge? I find that VERY hard to believe. I know for a FACT that 99% of all the Churches in Louisiana were driving their VANs around to see if anyone needed a ride out...but from what I understand, no one was taking them up on that offer.

FUCK YOU , idiot read up b4 posting shit... THE WAR WAS UNJUST motherfucker. But fuck that thats a whole 'nother thread. No attack was imminent, no WMD's were found fuck off.
And as far as knowing the NO disaster was coming. Fuckin idiot... I NEVER SAID HE KNEW, It doesnt say on the site, HE TOOK FUNDS FROM THE RELIEF TOWARDS THE WAR... its all about weighing the priorities. Protect the home front... or "protect" by invading....

go suck a dick

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 10:00 AM
FUCK YOU , idiot read up b4 posting shit... THE WAR WAS UNJUST motherfucker. But fuck that thats a whole 'nother thread. No attack was imminent, no WMD's were found fuck off.
And as far as knowing the NO disaster was coming. Fuckin idiot... I NEVER SAID HE KNEW, It doesnt say on the site, HE TOOK FUNDS FROM THE RELIEF TOWARDS THE WAR... its all about weighing the priorities. Protect the home front... or "protect" by invading....

go suck a dick


Hey, you should really check out www.delta.com

there's some really good deals to France and England....you need to buy the first ticket out of here, fatboy.

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 10:03 AM
Hey, you should really check out www.delta.com

there's some really good deals to France and England....you need to buy the first ticket out of here, fatboy.
ok...ok im unpatriotic now that im showing faults in our leadership... yeah... and again :2up:

To say that he didnt have any faults in his leadership is straight BS... not even ANY faults... way more problems in judgement than others.

let me repeat :2up:

4dmin
09-02-2005, 10:03 AM
Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country :rolleyes:

http://forums.importatlanta.com/showthread.php?p=280190#post280190

^ read this

** Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq. :2up:

Brett
09-02-2005, 10:04 AM
no WMD's were found fuck off.


Well he had 10 years to get them out before we invaded last year. He did have them, because he used them on his own people in the '80's, But in the 10 years from Desert Storm to the time we went back, he had plenty of time to "dispose" of them.

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 10:05 AM
Well he had 10 years to get them out before we invaded last year. He did have them, because he used them on his own people in the '80's, But in the 10 years from Desert Storm to the time we went back, he had plenty of time to "dispose" of them.
and how does that make an attack imminent?

Brett
09-02-2005, 10:06 AM
** Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that.

Up to 10 years so that is not just one presidents fault ;)

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 10:07 AM
Up to 10 years so that is not just one presidents fault ;)
not completely... but still on the whole, he is an incompetant pres

Brett
09-02-2005, 10:07 AM
and how does that make an attack imminent?

Im not bashin ya man, so dont get mad at me...lol

But there was no way to know if he still had them till we got there, 10 years to move his stock pile is a long time, ya know?

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 10:08 AM
anways I'm heading off to work.... Every1 will have their opinions on what not... Just saying that BUSH DID HAVE A MAJOR NEGATIVE EFFECT on the magnitude of damage caused to the bayou.
[/thread]

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:11 AM
FUCK YOU , idiot read up b4 posting shit... THE WAR WAS UNJUST motherfucker. But fuck that thats a whole 'nother thread. No attack was imminent, no WMD's were found fuck off.
And as far as knowing the NO disaster was coming. Fuckin idiot... I NEVER SAID HE KNEW, It doesnt say on the site, HE TOOK FUNDS FROM THE RELIEF TOWARDS THE WAR... its all about weighing the priorities. Protect the home front... or "protect" by invading....

go suck a dick

Couple of points here, so I can illustrate how you direly lack critical thinking skills:

1) Congressional budgets are created by... Congress. And signed by the president. Do you have ANY idea how many freaking sob stories there are from this group or that group who doesn't think they got enough federal funding that year? If I had a nickel every time someone could blame a problem on not having enough federal money, I'd have trillions and would pay off the national debt as a favor, just so people like you would stop your inane, irrational bitching.

2) You say that the money was taken directly from the relief effort to fund the war (tax cuts are also a popular source of blame). However, budgets don't work that way, and I bet you know it. Why didn't you say they went to fund education (there was the biggest increase in history for education in last year's budget)? Because you don't know how to think. Additionally, some of these biggest cuts didn't come till 2006. It's not 2006 yet.

3) WMD's -were- found in Iraq. Iraq -DID- have ties to Al Queda. Unfortunately, it wasn't a massive 500,000 gallon stash of anthrax and there was no evidence linking Iraq to 9/11, so choose to ignore reality.

Sorry, I didn't even vote for the asshole, but you don't get to make everyone stupider with idiotic comments and not get called on it.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 10:13 AM
ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!


Bush says relief efforts are ‘not acceptable’

^ where the fuck has Bush been??? in fucking DC, he is touring the region today... nice of him to actually get down there to face the problem 3 days late :rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9157866/ <<< whole story

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 10:15 AM
Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country :rolleyes:

http://forums.importatlanta.com/showthread.php?p=280190#post280190

^ read this

** Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq. :2up:


okay well, then you are gonna have to blame PEOPLE too, because they destroyed the natural levy system, the marshlands.


I read that article....and having lots of family from Louisiana and visiting the area at least 3 times a year....I can say that the people are doing it to themselves...acting crazy and somehow got the notion if they cause more trouble and uprising that help will come sooner.

look at Mississippi....look at Long Beach....completely wiped off the map, yet the surviors arent raping, killing, or shooting at anyone....look at gulfport, a VERY seedy area because of those casinos, yet you dont see any violence going on.

I love Louisiana with all my heart, it's where I have spent summers as a kid and where I learned to fish and crab trap. but when you cross over the i-10 from Slidell, the area is the ghetto...the people tend to do what they want, and it never mattered how many police patroled. So now that they are hot, tired, and hungry, they can just do whatever they want? They can just randomly attack SAR volunteers to take their supplies and run off? they can just randomly blame the GOVT for not doing enough....

facts are facts, they placed themselves in danger....and at this point, the GOVT is doing what it can, it might be slow, and it might not be what everyone wants....but at least it's getting done.

I talked to one of my cousins and he said the people of Slidell/St Tammany Parish are happy that the i-10 bridge is out, because they knew if it was up, chaos and trouble would flow over....

I'm going off subject, but alot of us dont know whats going on and only getting our info from the media....which can be good and bad...because they only show what they want us to see.

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 10:16 AM
man fuck yall :2up: Taking the artificial perspective.. you know i didnt mean literally it the HURRICANE wasn't his fault. The DISASTER was partially his fault. Read the site motherfuckers. Its about his priorities. Your beloved warmonger set his assets to his liking, and the effect of the hurricane could have been LESS DEVASTATING!. As far as relief goes and what not bitches. Even if one life would have been saved, BUSH FAILED! FUck yall and your beliefs. Only like 3 of you had valid concerns and the rest of yall are just fuckin bandwagon posters who post whats popular at the moment.


flame on
Dude this is one time I am going to call you an idiot. The levee's were built to withstand a Cat. 3 hurricare back in the 60's and before. Bush was not president then and had no control over that. They had an army corp engineer who said on TV that the levee's were built to withstand a Cat. 3 because it was cost effective. So if you want to jump on a band wagon and blame someone, blame the entire system that originally designed them not the current president. Even if he would have assigned the money in '02 to upgrade the levee's they would not have been done in time to prevent this. Do you not think that this has come up before now about the levee's. Experts for years have predicted that if N.O. took a direct hit that it would wipe them out.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:17 AM
ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!



^ where the fuck has Bush been??? in fucking DC, he is touring the region today... nice of him to actually get down there to face the problem 3 days late :rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9157866/ <<< whole story

Right, because wasting hundreds of man-hours and helicopters to take the president and security detail to a region that is woefully un-enforced and rife with wanton violence is a good idea.

Do you people even think before this crap spews out of your fingers onto the keyboard?

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 10:17 AM
Couple of points here, so I can illustrate how you direly lack critical thinking skills:

1) Congressional budgets are created by... Congress. And signed by the president. Do you have ANY idea how many freaking sob stories there are from this group or that group who doesn't think they got enough federal funding that year? If I had a nickel every time someone could blame a problem on not having enough federal money, I'd have trillions and would pay off the national debt as a favor, just so people like you would stop your inane, irrational bitching.

2) You say that the money was taken directly from the relief effort to fund the war (tax cuts are also a popular source of blame). However, budgets don't work that way, and I bet you know it. Why didn't you say they went to fund education (there was the biggest increase in history for education in last year's budget)? Because you don't know how to think. Additionally, some of these biggest cuts didn't come till 2006. It's not 2006 yet.

3) WMD's -were- found in Iraq. Iraq -DID- have ties to Al Queda. Unfortunately, it wasn't a massive 500,000 gallon stash of anthrax and there was no evidence linking Iraq to 9/11, so choose to ignore reality.

Sorry, I didn't even vote for the asshole, but you don't get to make everyone stupider with idiotic comments and not get called on it.


obviously funds from the war had to come from somewhere... But when the war itself was unjust... NO WMD's were found mofo... NOT THIS TIME AROUND... show proof?... yeah thats right. Proven ties to Al-Queda?... shut your ass up

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:22 AM
obviously funds from the war had to come from somewhere... But when the war itself was unjust... NO WMD's were found mofo... NOT THIS TIME AROUND... show proof?... yeah thats right. Proven ties to Al-Queda?... shut your ass up

No, they don't have to come from somewhere, that's why we have a much higher debt than before. We just borrow it.

Now I'm going to make you look like even more of an idiot:

1) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html
A sarin canister was rigged as an IED, it came from an Iraqi warhead. It could have killed upwards of 50,000. There was mustard gas found also. Oops, you lose.

2) http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/
The 9/11 report in it's entirety. You didn't read it. All you read was dailykos. The 9/11 report specifically states that Iraq DID have ties to Al Queda, and lists the specific links, but says that Iraq did not have any demonstrateable ties to Al Queda's efforts leading to 9/11. You lose again.

AND, just because I don't trust you to be intelligent enough to handle this post without pretty pictures, here's a photo of Iraq's Spymaster Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir AL-ANI meeting with 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta in prague.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 10:29 AM
Right, because wasting hundreds of man-hours and helicopters to take the president and security detail to a region that is woefully un-enforced and rife with wanton violence is a good idea.

Do you people even think before this crap spews out of your fingers onto the keyboard?

really it took how many days to do a fly over there??? are you fucking mad, the president of the USA, is the most powerful man in the world, if it takes him almost a week to get to a disaster area then there is a severe problem. it would be different if he put effort 1st to securing the area, but he has not. i don't know what news you have been watching but shit has been crazy all week. Where is the Commander and chief? playing golf? having lunch??? vacation???

talk about shit spewing from fingers maybe you should wipe the shit from your eyes and take a look. :jerkit:

RandomGuy
09-02-2005, 10:31 AM
No, they don't have to come from somewhere, that's why we have a much higher debt than before. We just borrow it.

Now I'm going to make you look like even more of an idiot:

1) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html
A sarin canister was rigged as an IED, it came from an Iraqi warhead. It could have killed upwards of 50,000. There was mustard gas found also. Oops, you lose.

2) http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/
The 9/11 report in it's entirety. You didn't read it. All you read was dailykos. The 9/11 report specifically states that Iraq DID have ties to Al Queda, and lists the specific links, but says that Iraq did not have any demonstrateable ties to Al Queda's efforts leading to 9/11. You lose again.

AND, just because I don't trust you to be intelligent enough to handle this post without pretty pictures, here's a photo of Iraq's Spymaster Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir AL-ANI meeting with 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta in prague.


not even going to front, i stand corrected... as far as the WMD found...
" Iraq did not have any demonstrateable ties to Al Queda's efforts leading to 9/11" ... hrm... a country that hates us so much, wonder why... IMMINENT THREAT?
but either way Bush lacks leadership skills. off to work. Have your opinions I stand by mines, Bush is a terrible leader.


off to work. later bitches....

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:33 AM
really it took how many days to do a fly over there??? are you fucking mad, the president of the USA, is the most powerful man in the world, if it takes him almost a week to get to a disaster area then there is a severe problem. it would be different if he put effort 1st to securing the area, but he has not. i don't know what news you have been watching but shit has been crazy all week. Where is the Commander and chief? playing golf? having lunch??? vacation???

talk about shit spewing from fingers maybe you should wipe the shit from your eyes and take a look. :jerkit:

You just made my point for me. NO was very unprepared for a disaster of this magnitude. They were not reacting fast enough, or with enough infrastructure, despite the fact that there IS no manpower shortage.

So, that being said, do you think it's a great idea to take the commander in chief and fly him in while everyone doesn't have their shit together? Do you have any idea the kind of manpower and money that go into security measures for him when he goes to a disaster like this? The NG and military has just NOW begun to try to take care of the looter problem, looters who were shooting at police officers.

Yeah, let's fly the prez down there and have him take a little raft trip through the streets.

Look, there are many, many ways to illustrate the failings of this president. Being a retard is not one of them.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 10:35 AM
1) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html
A sarin canister was rigged as an IED, it came from an Iraqi warhead. It could have killed upwards of 50,000. There was mustard gas found also. Oops, you lose.


lol your kidding right... Fox News, hmmm they aren't biased on anything :rolleyes: they are the same people showing happy familys out of New Orleans and not the disaster we have on our hands. :lmao:

WOW they found A Canister... woot woot, it has taken over 200+ billion dollars to find 1 empty canister, but money well spent to find WMD.


The Iraqis were very capable of producing such shells in the 1980s but it's not as clear that they continued after the first Gulf War.

ya trying reading... hmm pre Gulf War :thinking:

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:35 AM
not even going to front, i stand corrected... as far as the WMD found...
" Iraq did not have any demonstrateable ties to Al Queda's efforts leading to 9/11" ... hrm... a country that hates us so much, wonder why... IMMINENT THREAT?
but either way Bush lacks leadership skills. off to work. Have your opinions I stand by mines, Bush is a terrible leader.


off to work. later bitches....

Unfortunately, your opinion was based of erroneous information fed to you by leftist blogs.

This is what happens when you just regurgitate what's spoon fed to you and don't do your own homework.

Like I said, I don't think he's a very good president at all, and I never voted for him, but NOBODY gets to spew misinformation as a cornerstone of their oh-so-fashionable bush-bashing and get away with it on my watch, because it makes you part of the problem, not the solution.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:40 AM
lol your kidding right... Fox News, hmmm they aren't biased on anything :rolleyes: they are the same people showing happy familys out of New Orleans and not the disaster we have on our hands. :lmao:

WOW they found A Canister... woot woot, it has taken over 200+ billion dollars to find 1 empty canister, but money well spent to find WMD.



ya trying reading... hmm pre Gulf War :thinking:

A) There are families that have gotten out of NO. I won't argue if you say that the response has thus far been quite lackluster, but the media will portray it in the worst possible light, just like they do with Iraq.

B) Ooops, you made a mistake. You think fox news is my only source?

http://www.ngwrc.org/index.cfm?Page=Article&ID=861
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.main/ and scroll down.

The canister wasn't empty, poindexter. Neither was the mustard gas. Neither were the several tons of enriched uranium (you know, the kind you make when you have a clandestine nuclear weapons program) that they just recently shipped out.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 10:40 AM
You just made my point for me. NO was very unprepared for a disaster of this magnitude. They were not reacting fast enough, or with enough infrastructure, despite the fact that there IS no manpower shortage.

So, that being said, do you think it's a great idea to take the commander in chief and fly him in while everyone doesn't have their shit together? Do you have any idea the kind of manpower and money that go into security measures for him when he goes to a disaster like this? The NG and military has just NOW begun to try to take care of the looter problem, looters who were shooting at police officers.

Yeah, let's fly the prez down there and have him take a little raft trip through the streets.

Look, there are many, many ways to illustrate the failings of this president. Being a retard is not one of them.

the reason its not secure is b/c Bush has us spread too thin, we are at war w/ 2 countries, and he didn't leave enough balls to defend his own country from mother nature :lmfao:

ya it takes tons of security measures to do a fly over in a gov't helicopter that has bullet proof plating on it. we aren't in iraq, and the citizens aren't using RPGs

E for effort :goodjob: keep the BS coming

Mike
09-02-2005, 10:43 AM
not bushes fault....

it was mother natures :)

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 10:45 AM
the reason its not secure is b/c Bush has us spread too thin, we are at war w/ 2 countries, and he didn't leave enough balls to defend his own country from mother nature :lmfao:

ya it takes tons of security measures to do a fly over in a gov't helicopter that has bullet proof plating on it. we aren't in iraq, and the citizens aren't using RPGs

E for effort :goodjob: keep the BS coming

You seem to be under the impression that you are making intellectual headway here.

How does one, exactly, 'defend his own country from mother nature'? Are you seriously this stupid?

Yes, we are at war. No, there is no shortage of manpower. There WAS an unacceptable delay in getting them there, but there is certainly no lack of manpower. There are also provisions against using the military as a law enforcement tool, except under specific circumstances (it is illegal otherwise). They just decided the circumstances existed a couple of days ago.

Ok, genius, now the helicoper's flown in and landed. How do you transport him to affected areas? Is he still in the helicopter when he's surveying the damage? What are the several hundred people necessary to constitute his security detail (from protection to logistics to transportation to communication) doing? Oh, that's right, they're not rescuing people, allowing people like you to complain even more about how things aren't getting done fast enough.

Cliff
09-02-2005, 11:04 AM
ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!



^ where the fuck has Bush been??? in fucking DC, he is touring the region today... nice of him to actually get down there to face the problem 3 days late :rolleyes:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9157866/ <<< whole story


there have been random idiots walking around a state with guns shooting off at helicopters and police stations and you want them to fly the president of the country down into that? i understand completely the delay because they waited until they felt it was safe for him to be there and then they brought him in...you don't toss your president into a pile of wolves and say hey go check on the lamb and see if it's ok

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 11:07 AM
there have been random idiots walking around a state with guns shooting off at helicopters and police stations and you want them to fly the president of the country down into that? i understand completely the delay because they waited until they felt it was safe for him to be there and then they brought him in...you don't toss your president into a pile of wolves and say hey go check on the lamb and see if it's ok

Some people here are under the impression that:

1) The president is personally directing the distribution of every bottle of water, and

2) That you can't adequately 'face' a problem in the year 2005 unless you're there personally. Because things like telephones, the internet, television, and a massive government communication infrastructure don't exist. You have to -be- there, see. Right away. You couldn't, say, be working somewhere else to help facilitate a 10.5 billion dollar relief package to start them off, or anything.

God, this is like the 'My Pet Goat' retards all over again.

JoeCoolinATL
09-02-2005, 11:17 AM
So the hurricane wouldn't have happened if we elected kerry?


see, when you say the truth like that, theres only one thing the media can call it.

pro bush propoganda.

haha

HONDALOCO
09-02-2005, 11:26 AM
because there are people in this world who cant bare to live another minute unless they can blame somebody....

if were up to me, I'd ship those a-holes to canada and europe.

I DONT WANT THEM HERE BIATCH LOL

4dmin
09-02-2005, 12:20 PM
You seem to be under the impression that you are making intellectual headway here.

How does one, exactly, 'defend his own country from mother nature'? Are you seriously this stupid?

Yes, we are at war. No, there is no shortage of manpower. There WAS an unacceptable delay in getting them there, but there is certainly no lack of manpower. There are also provisions against using the military as a law enforcement tool, except under specific circumstances (it is illegal otherwise). They just decided the circumstances existed a couple of days ago.

Ok, genius, now the helicoper's flown in and landed. How do you transport him to affected areas? Is he still in the helicopter when he's surveying the damage? What are the several hundred people necessary to constitute his security detail (from protection to logistics to transportation to communication) doing? Oh, that's right, they're not rescuing people, allowing people like you to complain even more about how things aren't getting done fast enough.

well they could of defended themselves from mother nature if the gov't put our warnings sooner and made available transportation ready for those need assistance. that wouldn't of been so hard considering we knew about this storm 2 weeks ago, and if the projected path was correct New Orleans already knew they couldn't with stand a catgory 4 hurricane.

wow your 2nd paragraph made sense... we have man power yet there is no man power there??? does that mean we have man power??? well guess what there isn't a shortage of troops... they are all over the globe, just not there...

who said "land"? he just got down there today to even survey... it took all week for him to schedule a flight to survey his own country from the air :jerkit:

Brett
09-02-2005, 12:21 PM
^^ He didnt do just a fly over, he is on the ground now looking at damage also

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 12:22 PM
I DONT WANT THEM HERE BIATCH LOL


lol....MARTY! haha...


and +1000000000000000 to malfeas99

4dmin
09-02-2005, 12:25 PM
there have been random idiots walking around a state with guns shooting off at helicopters and police stations and you want them to fly the president of the country down into that? i understand completely the delay because they waited until they felt it was safe for him to be there and then they brought him in...you don't toss your president into a pile of wolves and say hey go check on the lamb and see if it's ok

you guys crack me up... the president has stealth bombers, apache helicopters, & millions of other weapons at his disposal. its amazing every news station around the globe is there, but he can't make it down. by the way w/ all of the money spent on air force one and you guys think it can be shot down by normal fire arms :jerkit:

4dmin
09-02-2005, 12:26 PM
^^ He didnt do just a fly over, he is on the ground now looking at damage also

MSN.com , GOOGLE.com = a wealth of knowledge... we know that already. its the point it took him all week to get there :goodjob:

HONDALOCO
09-02-2005, 12:28 PM
no but in all seriousness my prayers goes to everyone and their family that got affected by this.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 12:31 PM
no but in all seriousness my prayers goes to everyone and their family that got affected by this.

+10, i 2nd that

4dmin
09-02-2005, 12:36 PM
I'm sorry if i sound like i'm ranting, but alot of blame needs to go all up/down the chain of command from the Mayor to the President. The head of FEMA in an interview yesterday said he didn't know anything about the situation at the DOME. Com'on that is the biggest lie i've heard in a long time. Its not 5 minutes go by when you don't see an image from the situation down there. We knew on day one the dome sprung a leak, lost power, no ac, etc...

this whole situation is just sad. anyone listen to 750am Neal b. today?

C22H19N3O4
09-02-2005, 12:39 PM
I have it on good authority that Bush was very busy. I even have some video footage, but please turn up your sound to embrace the moment. (http://bushandsaddam.ytmnd.com/)

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 12:46 PM
I'm sorry if i sound like i'm ranting, but alot of blame needs to go all up/down the chain of command from the Mayor to the President. The head of FEMA in an interview yesterday said he didn't know anything about the situation at the DOME. Com'on that is the biggest lie i've heard in a long time. Its not 5 minutes go by when you don't see an image from the situation down there. We knew on day one the dome sprung a leak, lost power, no ac, etc...

this whole situation is just sad. anyone listen to 750am Neal b. today?


I did listen paul....I also listened to Rush Limbaugh too, the Director of FEMA is simply avoiding direct answers....granted roads are out and unpassable, FEMA has billions of dollars in equipment and yet they cant make it to N.O in less than 5 days?

1439/2000
09-02-2005, 01:00 PM
So the hurricane wouldn't have happened if we elected kerry?


+1

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 01:10 PM
+1 Random guy is so damn right.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:15 PM
+1 Random guy is so damn right.


-100000

you are a idiot...


QD or Brett, go ahead and ban this guy, again.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:16 PM
well they could of defended themselves from mother nature if the gov't put our warnings sooner and made available transportation ready for those need assistance. that wouldn't of been so hard considering we knew about this storm 2 weeks ago, and if the projected path was correct New Orleans already knew they couldn't with stand a catgory 4 hurricane.

Yes, because weather prediction is such an exact science. And how much warning would have been enough? There was a mandatory call to evacuate. These people, by and large, chose to stay for one reason or another, or could not transport themselves out. Either way, all this 'woulda-shoulda-coulda' without ANY basis in reality is a waste of our time and your brain cells. This is the largest rescue effort in american HISTORY, and NOBODY could have predicted that with the data they had available.


wow your 2nd paragraph made sense... we have man power yet there is no man power there??? does that mean we have man power??? well guess what there isn't a shortage of troops... they are all over the globe, just not there...

Wrong again. I'll go ahead and spell it out for you since you, like everyone else spewing garbage on this thread, has serious critical thinking problems.

1) There are plenty of National Guardsman and military personell stateside that have been deployed and activated. There is no shortage stateside, everyone up and down the chain have acknowledged this. They have also acknowledged that the efforts to move these people into situations where they can help have been unacceptable. So manpower isn't the problem, it's infrastructure. Troops are rotated back home all the time. Many of the guardsmen going to NO now just came back from Iraq. I also know quite a few reservists that haven't even been activated. So, your little logical fallacy of 'we can't send people because the're everywhere else' is just plain wrong. The sooner you accept this fact, the less stupid you will be.

2) Up till the last 24 hours, people have been trying to tackle the violence and looting issue as a law enforcement problem. This is ineffective, and it must be treated as a military problem. However, it is expressly illegal to use the US military for law enforcement actions on it's own soil. It is called the Posse Comitatus Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act Certain situations must exist to supercede it, and this is likely why it's taken a handful of days.


who said "land"? he just got down there today to even survey... it took all week for him to schedule a flight to survey his own country from the air :jerkit:

So? Why are you even bothering pounding this point? The region was not safe for the president, the rescue and enforcement efforts were haphazard and disorganized, and he and congress just signed over 10.5 billion in initial relief? I suppose you'd rather have had him pootling around looking at damage or something? What difference does it make? Will having the president there suddenly restore order out of lawlessness? Will it magically make the rescue efforts 5000% more efficient? Please. Irrational, idiotic Bush-bashing is what makes it difficult to address the real, legitimate reasons of his failed presidency. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:18 PM
So? Why are you even bothering pouding this point? The region was not safe for the president, the rescue and enforcement efforts were haphazard and disorganized, and he and congress just signed over 10.5 billion in initial relief? I suppose you'd rather have had him pootling around looking at damage or something? What difference does it make? Will having the president there suddenly restore order out of lawlessness? Will it magically make the rescue efforts 5000% more efficient?


EXACTLY.
I'd give you more rep, but it wont let me.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 01:22 PM
Yes, because weather prediction is such an exact science. And how much warning would have been enough? There was a mandatory call to evacuate. These people, by and large, chose to stay for one reason or another, or could not transport themselves out. Either way, all this 'woulda-shoulda-coulda' without ANY basis in reality is a waste of our time and your brain cells. This is the largest rescue effort in american HISTORY, and NOBODY could have predicted that with the data they had available.



Wrong again. I'll go ahead and spell it out for you since you, like everyone else spewing garbage on this thread, has serious critical thinking problems.

1) There are plenty of National Guardsman and military personell stateside that have been deployed and activated. There is no shortage stateside, everyone up and down the chain have acknowledged this. They have also acknowledged that the efforts to move these people into situations where they can help have been unacceptable. So manpower isn't the problem, it's infrastructure. Troops are rotated back home all the time. Many of the guardsmen going to NO now just came back from Iraq. I also know quite a few reservists that haven't even been activated. So, your little logical fallacy of 'we can't send people because the're everywhere else' is just plain wrong. The sooner you accept this fact, the less stupid you will be.

2) Up till the last 24 hours, people have been trying to tackle the violence and looting issue as a law enforcement problem. This is ineffective, and it must be treated as a military problem. However, it is expressly illegal to use the US military for law enforcement actions on it's own soil. It is called the Posse Comitatus Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act Certain situations must exist to supercede it, and this is likely why it's taken a handful of days.



So? Why are you even bothering pouding this point? The region was not safe for the president, the rescue and enforcement efforts were haphazard and disorganized, and he and congress just signed over 10.5 billion in initial relief? I suppose you'd rather have had him pootling around looking at damage or something? What difference does it make? Will having the president there suddenly restore order out of lawlessness? Will it magically make the rescue efforts 5000% more efficient? Please. Irrational, idiotic Bush-bashing is what makes it difficult to address the real, legitimate reasons of his failed presidency. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

seriously you have to be the dumbest person on the planet... IF TROOPS AREN'T THERE HOW DOES THAT HELP??? the president can send troops to any city at any time he sees fit... you can drag up all of the BS laws you want, but even in 911 we had troops there on day one.

10.5 billion bahhh thats fucking change considering we are paying 1 billion a day in iraq, and again what is money to people who are starving?

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 01:22 PM
ALL YOU Tards THAT LOVE BUSH...WHY?! WHAT IS HE DOING THATS SO GREAT?! Right now??? The help down there and everyone is so freaking slow.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 01:24 PM
ALL YOU FUCKS THAT LOVE BUSH ...WHY?! WHAT IS HE DOING THATS SO GREAT?!


no one loves him like that...but we dont hate him like you do...its called being human, im sure if you wer president, you would do alot better....maybe not, seeing as you 2 are on about the same intelligence level.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:25 PM
ALL YOU FUCKS THAT LOVE BUSH ...WHY?! WHAT IS HE DOING THATS SO GREAT?!


Hey bandwagon boy.....that's right, I'm calling you BANDWAGON BOY, because that's all you do on here....jump on the bandwagon....why dont you jump on something that will really matter....like...jump off a bridge into a busy highway.


you are possibly the dumbest person alive, and Lil Scrappy owns you all over this board.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 01:25 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.katfri23.jpg

^ bahhh that is the funniest pic i've seen yet... wow what compasion he has for the suffering?

Brett
09-02-2005, 01:27 PM
ALL YOU Tards THAT LOVE BUSH...WHY?! WHAT IS HE DOING THATS SO GREAT?! Right now??? The help down there and everyone is so freaking slow.

I see you dont want me or anyone to lay off your stupid ass, So what reasons do you have for not liking? All you can do is say +1 for what someone said but cant seem to ina smart way that has facts to back it up say what reasons you have to not like anything.... so why dont you take a step back, breathe, go to google, and then copy and paste some article you can find that bash's Bush so you can then try and say you typed it and sound smart, for once atleast.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 01:27 PM
i swear, we need to bann him again, he does nothing productive on this board, no one likes him and...well he's just fuckin annoying, the same reasons he was banned the first time

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:28 PM
I see you dont want me or anyone to lay off your stupid ass, So what reasons do you have for not liking? All you can do is say +1 for what someone said but cant seem to ina smart way that has facts to back it up say what reasons you have to not like anything.... so why dont you take a step back, breathe, go to google, and then copy and paste some article you can find that bash's Bush so you can then try and say you typed it and sound smart, for once atleast.


no, you've already been too nice to him, just ban him.


what's the point of coddling this bastard when all he does is be stupid....I mean I guess we cant really blame him for being stupid, he's just that way.

still ban him.

Brett
09-02-2005, 01:29 PM
he cant see why I come at him in all his posts

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Brett, you should have banned him for that disrespect he showed leisa....and all he does is say unproductive stupid shit in every thread...just like in that call out thread in the kills forum, he just pops up out of no where talkin about the tax cut for gas...

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:30 PM
he cant see why I come at him in all his posts


So let's do ourselves a favor and get rid of him, no need to answer him on why you come at him.

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 01:30 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.katfri23.jpg

^ bahhh that is the funniest pic i've seen yet... wow what compasion he has for the suffering?


..hahaha bush is throwin a Big ACT.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:32 PM
seriously you have to be the dumbest person on the planet... IF TROOPS AREN'T THERE HOW DOES THAT HELP??? the president can send troops to any city at any time he sees fit... you can drag up all of the BS laws you want, but even in 911 we had troops there on day one.

A) It doesn't help. But you said there weren't enough troops stateside. You were wrong. Whether they are being deployed properly and effectively is an entirely different argument. But manpower isn't a problem. If you had said 'these Guardsmen aren't being deployed well and everything is going too slowly', I'd probably agree with you. But no, you had to say something stupid instead, about how the troops aren't here, they're overseas.

B) The president CANNOT send troops to any city at any time he sees fit, read the Posse Comitatus Act, you retarded simian, if you can even pronounce it. Rescue efforts such as are STATE CONTROLLED, not FEDERALLY CONTROLLED. Learn the FREAKING DIFFERENCE.


10.5 billion bahhh thats fucking change considering we are paying 1 billion a day in iraq, and again what is money to people who are starving?

A) 10.5 billion was a 'downpayment' on the beginnings of rescue efforts. I bet we'll see at least 10 times that in the following weeks/months.

B) Are you really so abysmally lacking in brainpower that you are actually comparing the situation in Iraq and the money being spent there to the situation in NO and the amount of money necessary there? NOTHING about the two situations is even REMOTELY similar, beyond both of them involving human beings on planet earth.

How about -you- tell us exactly what the president all the way down to the governor to the FEMA spokesperson to every Guardsman and Marine down there now SHOULD be doing, and exactly how much money should be spent and where. I'm sure you can come up with something well-informed, constructive, and helpful.

I won't hold my fucking breath.

Brett
09-02-2005, 01:33 PM
..hahaha bush is throwin a Big ACT.

Kinda like you try and ACT lik eyou have a clue to anything you talk about or post?

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:34 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.katfri23.jpg

^ bahhh that is the funniest pic i've seen yet... wow what compasion he has for the suffering?

Now it becomes clear. You wanted Bush to go down there and survey the damage and see the people so you could then bash him for putting up an act when he goes down to survey the damage and see the people.

Color me surprised.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:35 PM
..hahaha bush is throwin a Big ACT.


sounds like you are just jealous of the fact that the only thing would hug you is a dog when you have a peice of meat wrapped around your neck, and even then the dog wants to run away.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 01:36 PM
honestly...ya'll think he went down there to show people his alligators tears?
appreantly he, like every other us citizen, is effected by this natural disaster, i mean i understand you hanving your stands against his political and war decisions...but to say he's putting up a front about he feels...thats below the belt

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:36 PM
ALL YOU Tards THAT LOVE BUSH...WHY?! WHAT IS HE DOING THATS SO GREAT?! Right now??? The help down there and everyone is so freaking slow.

I don't love Bush. I didn't vote for him either election. I think he's done some pretty bad things.

That does not, however, mean I jump on every piece of leftist garbage that spews out of the mouths of idiots, nor do I accept the misinformation and lies and pointless conjecture that people seem to enjoy propagating.

I don't like Bush. I like truth.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 01:38 PM
How about -you- tell us exactly what the president all the way down to the governor to the FEMA spokesperson to every Guardsman and Marine down there now SHOULD be doing, and exactly how much money should be spent and where. I'm sure you can come up with something well-informed, constructive, and helpful.

I won't hold my fucking breath.

well you won't have to hold it for long... its amazing this situation has taken a week for military to show up, they could of had military deployed on the first day like in 911, this has nothing to do w/ money its the point of actions. there has been weak actions from the mayor, governor, fema, president, etc... they sent 100 MP 2 days ago to control over 20,000 angry starving/thirsty people at the dome. what do you call that? a good choice. i never said bush alone was to blame they all have a hand in this.

i guess your one of those people if its not you it doesn't affect you.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 01:38 PM
I don't love Bush. I didn't vote for him either election. I think he's done some pretty bad things.

That does not, however, mean I jump on every piece of leftist garbage that spews out of the mouths of idiots, nor do I accept the misinformation and lies and pointless conjecture that people seem to enjoy propagating.

I don't like Bush. I like truth.


im in the same square as him, i dont liek the man, i didn't vote for him, but i respect some of his decision making....you cant blame him for all our faults, some...but not all, but people like technoturd looks at everything he has ever done that negative

Leisa
09-02-2005, 01:39 PM
..hahaha bush is throwin a Big ACT.


Im telling ya, you are one stupid motherfucker.. and the stupidity you show increases more and more as each day passes...

4dmin
09-02-2005, 01:41 PM
Now it becomes clear. You wanted Bush to go down there and survey the damage and see the people so you could then bash him for putting up an act when he goes down to survey the damage and see the people.

Color me surprised.

actually i love the likeness he has in the picture like he cares... if you don't think a photo like that is for votes then your just plain stupid. i guess its ok to sit in A/C and make press conferences on the issue w/o getting into it yourself, but as soon as you do everyone should accept the fact your days late? :goodjob:

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:43 PM
well you won't have to hold it for long... its amazing this situation has taken a week for military to show up, they could of had military deployed on the first day like in 911, this has nothing to do w/ money its the point of actions. there has been weak actions from the mayor, governor, fema, president, etc... they sent 100 MP 2 days ago to control over 20,000 angry starving/thirsty people at the dome. what do you call that? a good choice. i never said bush alone was to blame they all have a hand in this.

i guess your one of those people if its not you it doesn't affect you.

9/11 was nothing like a natural disaster. It was, technically an act of war, which gives the federal government immediate jurisdiction. 9/11 was several square blocks. NO is several square miles.

I agree that the response to curb violence and looting has been very lackluster, if 4-5 looters had been summarily shot on day 1, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem as there is now.

HOWEVER, as I said, rescue efforts are a state's responsibility first, the federal government's responsibility second. That's the way this country works. So for you to immediately jump right to the top of the federal government to further some idiotic Bush-bashing agenda just goes to show that you're really NOT interested in addressing the problem, you just want to be mad at people you hate. I seriously doubt that if the man YOU voted for won the presidency, you would be so quick to criticize. Like I said, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

And no, I'm not one of those people. I am, however, one of those people that attempts to remain a rational human being no matter what is happening or who I don't like.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:48 PM
actually i love the likeness he has in the picture like he cares... if you don't think a photo like that is for votes then your just plain stupid. i guess its ok to sit in A/C and make press conferences on the issue w/o getting into it yourself, but as soon as you do everyone should accept the fact your days late? :goodjob:

This is ridiculous. Politicians lie. Politicians make careers out of convincing people they care about their plights. Sometimes it is genuine, sometimes it is not, sometimes it is forced. They're politicians, so sometimes it's very hard to tell. Of course that picture is for votes (though I'm not sure what the votes could be for, since he can't be reelected president again). Just like any politicians photo-ops are for votes. Christ, you act like it's just Bush, or just republicans. This is why you are part of the problem.

But for you to jump on the bush-bash bandwagon and cry about how he's taking his sweet time going down there, to then jump on it again once he IS down there and trying to show some compassion (whether it exists or not, the fact is it doesn't matter, it's all about perception), shows me that no matter what happened, you would blame Bush for it somehow.

Hell, if he had mobilized the military to evacuate before the storm, it would have been 'OMG BUSH IS TRAMPLING OUR CIVIL RIGHTS HE IS DECLARE MARTIAL LAW!11!one'. If he had signed an emergency provision 2 days before the storm offering 5 billion for evacuation, it would have been 'BUSH IS DRIVING US FURTHAR INTO DEBT WTF'. If he had gone down there FIRST THING, it would have been 'OMG WTF BUSH IS STUPID FOR GOING DOWN THERE WITH ALL THE LOOTERS AND PEOPLE SHOOTING', or possibly just you wishing he would get shot or something.

The problem with all of this is that you think you have some sort of enlightened grasp on politics, when in reality you're just a big regurgitating gut-feeling mess.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:51 PM
This is ridiculous. Politicians lie. Politicians make careers out of convincing people they care about their plights. Sometimes it is genuine, sometimes it is not, sometimes it is forced. They're politicians, so sometimes it's very hard to tell. Of course that picture is for votes (though I'm not sure what the votes could be for, since he can't be reelected president again). Just like any politicians photo-ops are for votes. Christ, you act like it's just Bush, or just republicans. This is why you are part of the problem.

But for you to jump on the bush-bash bandwagon and cry about how he's taking his sweet time going down there, to then jump on it again once he IS down there and trying to show some compassion (whether it exists or not, the fact is it doesn't matter, it's all about perception), shows me that no matter what happened, you would blame Bush for it somehow.

Hell, if he had mobilized the military to evacuate before the storm, it would have been 'OMG BUSH IS TRAMPLING OUR CIVIL RIGHTS HE IS DECLARE MARTIAL LAW!11!one'. If he had signed an emergency provision 2 days before the storm offering 5 billion for evacuation, it would have been 'BUSH IS DRIVING US FURTHAR INTO DEBT WTF'. If he had gone down there FIRST THING, it would have been 'OMG WTF BUSH IS STUPID FOR GOING DOWN THERE WITH ALL THE LOOTERS AND PEOPLE SHOOTING', or possibly just you wishing he would get shot or something.

The problem with all of this is that you think you have some sort of enlightened grasp on politics, when in reality you're just a big regurgitating gut-feeling mess.


yep, he's damned if he does and damned if he dont.

Kristi
09-02-2005, 01:51 PM
just saw this thread. and here are my thoughts.

They knew there was a problem with the levees years and years ago and they asked for funds to help replace/strengthen them. But when Bush got in office - he cut that budget to replace and strengthen these levees to almost nothing. That money was needed for a purpose - to protect New Orleans. But the Bush Administration cut that funding - and now instead of it costing them several million dollars, its going to cost them billions in damages.

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 01:54 PM
damn, Good post Kristi.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:54 PM
just saw this thread. and here are my thoughts.

They knew there was a problem with the levees years and years ago and they asked for funds to help replace/strengthen them. But when Bush got in office - he cut that budget to replace and strengthen these levees to almost nothing. That money was needed for a purpose - to protect New Orleans. But the Bush Administration cut that funding - and now instead of it costing them several million dollars, its going to cost them billions in damages.


here we go.....

so let me get this straight...you honestly believe when Bush got into office he said "We dont need levy's, so let's cut the funding".

it's called the Senate, and the local govt.....they all had to have some voice in it, if they voiced againest it...then obviously there wouldve still been funding.

dumbest theory I have ever heard, you know those penguins in your signature...they died because bush caused global warming :rolleyes:

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 01:55 PM
damn, Good post Kristi.


omg. shut up.

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 01:55 PM
dude Bush, didnt do anything with the whole Levy's what so ever..so what are you talking bout.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 01:57 PM
just saw this thread. and here are my thoughts.

They knew there was a problem with the levees years and years ago and they asked for funds to help replace/strengthen them. But when Bush got in office - he cut that budget to replace and strengthen these levees to almost nothing. That money was needed for a purpose - to protect New Orleans. But the Bush Administration cut that funding - and now instead of it costing them several million dollars, its going to cost them billions in damages.

An interesting theory, however, and as I stated in this thread before:

1) You have no way of knowing how much money it would have actually taken to repair it.

2) You have no idea whether it was Bush who personally cut the budget. Congressional budgets are initially created by, you guessed it, Congress.

3) There are a hundred sob stories every DAY from organizations and people who didn't get enough of a handout from the federal government. The care of NO's levees should be state funded. Do you have information about how much money they recieved from the state for this pursuit? I imagine the cut was probably made to try and wean NO and LA off the federal teat and get them to pay for state infrastructure with state funds.

4) Most of this funding cut was set to take place in 2006. It is 2005 now.

5) Reinforcing the levees is not an 'insert coin, *poof* they're fixed' type of situation. It's a years-long effort. Even if they'd gotten every cent they'd wanted, it would have taken years.

My question to you would be, then, why don't these things occur to you on your own? Do you ever question the information you recieve? Analyze? Do research?

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 01:57 PM
damn, Good post Kristi.

you must have a crush on her.....i means its okay to agree with her...but about voice your opinion on why you believe this...

IndianStig
09-02-2005, 01:57 PM
Natural Disaster

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 01:57 PM
omg. shut up.


I think you should shutup prick. and mind your own damn post and problems ass. I wasnt talking to you shit.

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 01:58 PM
dude Bush, didnt do anything with the whole Levy's what so ever..so what are you talking bout.
Would you people please get off of the Bush/Levee connection. The levee's were desgined in the '60's to withstand a Cat. 3 hurricane because it was "cost effective". even if Bush had wanted to put more money into them there is no way it would have been done in time to prevent this. New Orleans was a poorly designed city from the get go. If you want someone to blame then go back to when the city was founded and blame them for a bad design or go back to the 60's and blame them.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:00 PM
you must have a crush on her.....i means its okay to agree with her...but about voice your opinion on why you believe this...

He doesn't have his own opinion. It's just a mishmash of a few other people's opinions. This is why he is unable to cogently explain it.

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 02:01 PM
Yeah..The city itself The people who Designed everything and placed everything there for a city. since its below sea level..they shouldnt have started building there in the first place.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 02:02 PM
just saw this thread. and here are my thoughts.

They knew there was a problem with the levees years and years ago and they asked for funds to help replace/strengthen them. But when Bush got in office - he cut that budget to replace and strengthen these levees to almost nothing. That money was needed for a purpose - to protect New Orleans. But the Bush Administration cut that funding - and now instead of it costing them several million dollars, its going to cost them billions in damages.

thank you +10


I seriously doubt that if the man YOU voted for won the presidency, you would be so quick to criticize. Like I said, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
how do you know who i voted for? i didn't vote bush and most people on here know i don't like him anyway... i did vote kerry but that was only b/c i didn't have much of a choice. its not like green party/libertarian would of won. i simply vote against who i don't like.

so go right ahead and think i'm on bush-hating-bandwagon.... i fucking started it on here ask Brett/Jamie. :lmfao:

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:03 PM
just saw this thread. and here are my thoughts.

But when Bush got in office - he cut that budget to replace and strengthen these levees to almost nothing. That money was needed for a purpose - to protect New Orleans. But the Bush Administration cut that funding - and now instead of it costing them several million dollars, its going to cost them billions in damages.

OMFG!! That is one of the dumbest comments I have ever seen!! So now again your going to say Bush is the reason in 40+ years they didnt take the levee issue serious and upgrade or even put the pumps on stands so if the city flooded the damn pumps wouldnt be on the ground in the flood waters? Kristi I have just lost respect for you in the brain department.

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 02:03 PM
i like the cock

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:04 PM
Yeah..The city itself The people who Designed everything and placed everything there for a city. since its below sea level..they shouldnt have started building there in the first place.

So dumb fuck, how is that Bush's fault you fuckin moron?

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Neg- Points for GA Teg and malfeas99 for actin like hard asses.
You haven't seen me act like a hard ass yet so don't even start ;)

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Yeah..The city itself The people who Designed everything and placed everything there for a city. since its below sea level..they shouldnt have started building there in the first place.


....almost there....
so it would have been better that they not build at all, leave that big pieve of land there and move on somewhere else....or let them build the city and risk a natural disaster wipe them out? oorrrr let them build teh city, build strong defensives toward natural disasters...the point is this is all in teh past...could've's would'ves and should'ves, im just saying...dont blame one person

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:05 PM
An interesting theory, however, and as I stated in this thread before:

1) You have no way of knowing how much money it would have actually taken to repair it.

2) You have no idea whether it was Bush who personally cut the budget. Congressional budgets are initially created by, you guessed it, Congress.

3) There are a hundred sob stories every DAY from organizations and people who didn't get enough of a handout from the federal government. The care of NO's levees should be state funded. Do you have information about how much money they recieved from the state for this pursuit? I imagine the cut was probably made to try and wean NO and LA off the federal teat and get them to pay for state infrastructure with state funds.

4) Most of this funding cut was set to take place in 2006. It is 2005 now.

5) Reinforcing the levees is not an 'insert coin, *poof* they're fixed' type of situation. It's a years-long effort. Even if they'd gotten every cent they'd wanted, it would have taken years.

My question to you would be, then, why don't these things occur to you on your own? Do you ever question the information you recieve? Analyze? Do research?

It was to take years to fix the levee's - you are correct. The 'Council' heading up the replacement of these levees needed so many millions of dollars per year to get these fixed - they didn't get even half of what they were asking for this year. I also said the BUSH ADMINISTRATION (including Senate, etc.) cut the funding - I know it wasn't all Bush. It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Neg- Points for GA Teg and malfeas99 for actin like hard asses.

When I get home youwill be getting negatives in the amounts of 10's for you just being a plain out dumb ass with no true facts to talk shit with

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:06 PM
thank you +10

So you +10 it, yet it has already been addressed as being irrelevant at this juncture. This is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going LALALALALALALA.


how do you know who i voted for? i didn't vote bush and most people on here know i don't like him anyway... i did vote kerry but that was only b/c i didn't have much of a choice. its not like green party/libertarian would of won. i simply vote against who i don't like.

so go right ahead and think i'm on bush-hating-bandwagon.... i fucking started it on here ask Brett/Jamie. :lmfao:

Uh, I was going out on a limb there and assuming you didn't vote for Bush. And had Kerry won, you wouldn't have been nearly as quick to blame him for a bunch of extraneous crap like 'levee funding'. Or maybe you would, you've shown your grasp of the structure of state and federal governments to be tenuous at best.

I seriously doubt you started the bush-bashing bandwagon. Some of us think of things on terms larger than a website.

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:07 PM
It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.

And so the people who designed them in the 60's.... wasnt thier fault, and the fact from the start they knew it wasnt enough, but now Bush to you is liable for 40+ years of playing with fate? are you this fuckin stupid?

4dmin
09-02-2005, 02:08 PM
An interesting theory, however, and as I stated in this thread before:

1) You have no way of knowing how much money it would have actually taken to repair it.

2) You have no idea whether it was Bush who personally cut the budget. Congressional budgets are initially created by, you guessed it, Congress.

3) There are a hundred sob stories every DAY from organizations and people who didn't get enough of a handout from the federal government. The care of NO's levees should be state funded. Do you have information about how much money they recieved from the state for this pursuit? I imagine the cut was probably made to try and wean NO and LA off the federal teat and get them to pay for state infrastructure with state funds.

4) Most of this funding cut was set to take place in 2006. It is 2005 now.

5) Reinforcing the levees is not an 'insert coin, *poof* they're fixed' type of situation. It's a years-long effort. Even if they'd gotten every cent they'd wanted, it would have taken years.

My question to you would be, then, why don't these things occur to you on your own? Do you ever question the information you recieve? Analyze? Do research?

funding has been cut for the past 5-10 years on such projects... does bush, local/federal gov't have a part in this? yes. they had this shit on primetime last night as well. if the warning signs are there, and we know if a catagory 4 hits it will mean devestation, why would you cut funding to fix the situation? this situation is a gov't failure on all levels.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:09 PM
It was to take years to fix the levee's - you are correct. The 'Council' heading up the replacement of these levees needed so many millions of dollars per year to get these fixed - they didn't get even half of what they were asking for this year. I also said the BUSH ADMINISTRATION (including Senate, etc.) cut the funding - I know it wasn't all Bush. It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.

So they didn't get half of what they needed. Unfortunately there's no data that I know of that says how much it would have actually taken. These groups tend to request far more money than they need from the federal government for several reasons: They know they won't get it so they highball it, they want it for other pork projects, they're corrupt and want to line their pockets, etc.

As I said, care of the Levees should have been a state and city issue. It's not like the federal funds were the only source of money. They shouldn't have expected a single cent from the federal government, but they got millions.. just not as many millions as they wanted.

How does this make the federal government complicit in the disaster? It doesn't. There's a lot of holes in this story, and only people who have made up their minds about it already will accept it as legitimate 'proof' of anything.

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:09 PM
It was to take years to fix the levee's - you are correct. The 'Council' heading up the replacement of these levees needed so many millions of dollars per year to get these fixed - they didn't get even half of what they were asking for this year. I also said the BUSH ADMINISTRATION (including Senate, etc.) cut the funding - I know it wasn't all Bush. It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.
The point is that no matter what they say now, it was too short of a time frame to repair the levee's before this happened. Even if they had started to rebuild them, yes they would have to do that in order to strengthen them, people would still be crying they did not do enough. If the levee's had been designed to withstand a Cat. 5 in the first place, this might not have been near as bad as it is now.

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:10 PM
did i say that brett? ummm, no. and don't call me fucking stupid.

i'm sure that people 40 years ago thought the levees were adaquate. or maybe that is the best that they could do, who knows. but other administrations saw a problem and kept funding going to help with the New Orleans area - including wet land space, run through test evacuations and help if a diaster did occur - but this administration stopped all that.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:11 PM
Neg- Points for GA Teg and malfeas99 for actin like hard asses.

If by 'actin like hard asses' you mean 'using one's brain', then yes, I'll accept the negative points.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 02:11 PM
I seriously doubt you started the bush-bashing bandwagon. Some of us think of things on terms larger than a website. does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:13 PM
funding has been cut for the past 5-10 years on such projects... does bush, local/federal gov't have a part in this? yes. they had this shit on primetime last night as well. if the warning signs are there, and we know if a catagory 4 hits it will mean devestation, why would you cut funding to fix the situation? this situation is a gov't failure on all levels.

I'm sure in hindsight, it's very easy to say that. The fact is that NO has been playing russian roulette since it was founded. The original design of the levees was lacking. Why didn't you blame Louisiana and new orleans first for not making it a priority? It's a lot easier and more efficient for states to appropriate money than the fed. government.

Like I've said a dozen times, the responsibility for a city's infrastructure goes as follows:

1) City
2) State
3) Federal

But no, you went and blamed Bush directly. Cuz you hate him.

Good thinking!

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:13 PM
did i say that brett? ummm, no. and don't call me fucking stupid.

i'm sure that people 40 years ago thought the levees were adaquate. or maybe that is the best that they could do, who knows. but other administrations saw a problem and kept funding going to help with the New Orleans area - including wet land space, run through test evacuations and help if a diaster did occur - but this administration stopped all that.
Read my past post, they built them to a Cat. 3 because it was "cost effective". They knew in the '60's that if N.O. took a direct hit it would wipe out but they decided at that time that building them to a Cat. 3 strength would be sufficient and more cost effective.

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:13 PM
The point is that no matter what they say now, it was too short of a time frame to repair the levee's before this happened. Even if they had started to rebuild them, yes they would have to do that in order to strengthen them, people would still be crying they did not do enough. If the levee's had been designed to withstand a Cat. 5 in the first place, this might not have been near as bad as it is now.

No one knows that if they had begun to be rebuilt if they would have held up better or not, but there is a chance that it might have and there wouldn't be such a problem now. The point is is that this administration had the opportunity to keep replacements going and they hindered the process and so now we won't ever know if they would have stopped anything or not. Experts say that even the slightest replacements could have helped some - and some is better than not at all. and you are probably right - even if they had been replaced - someone would still be bitching that it wasn't enough - but at least a step was taken.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:13 PM
does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.

Yes, I need a tampon. I have a vagina, and it is bleeding. And there's sand in it.

This may come as a surprise to some of you.

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:14 PM
does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.
He didn't start the bandwagon but he did get it bigger :D

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 02:14 PM
I'm sure in hindsight, it's very easy to say that. The fact is that NO has been playing russian roulette since it was founded. The original design of the levees was lacking. Why didn't you blame Louisiana and new orleans first for not making it a priority? It's a lot easier and more efficient for states to appropriate money than the fed. government.

Like I've said a dozen times, the responsibility for a city's infrastructure goes as follows:

1) City
2) State
3) Federal

But no, you went and blamed Bush directly. Cuz you hate him.

Good thinking!

EXACTLY, but I think Admin(Paul) already agrees with your infastructure....

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:15 PM
funding has been cut for the past 5-10 years on such projects... does bush, local/federal gov't have a part in this? yes. they had this shit on primetime last night as well. if the warning signs are there, and we know if a catagory 4 hits it will mean devestation, why would you cut funding to fix the situation? this situation is a gov't failure on all levels.

i agree with you. good post.

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:15 PM
No one knows that if they had begun to be rebuilt if they would have held up better or not, but there is a chance that it might have and there wouldn't be such a problem now. The point is is that this administration had the opportunity to keep replacements going and they hindered the process and so now we won't ever know if they would have stopped anything or not. Experts say that even the slightest replacements could have helped some - and some is better than not at all. and you are probably right - even if they had been replaced - someone would still be bitching that it wasn't enough - but at least a step was taken.
From an engineering stand point, no it would not have been done in time. Every single levee would have to be rebuilt and their are miles and miles of levee's there to rebuild.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 02:16 PM
does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.



exactly, i dont dislike anyonen here for pointing their opinion, even tho me and Paul and a few others have different views, i still like him as a person and nothing has changed, just like every other person on here...including kristi and her sister...thsi is a discusion not a battle, if thats the case, all of IA will be torn into two sides and alot of drama and fighting will take place all day everyday...basically i feel it should all stay in this thread and all related threads.....i hope no one feels animosity toward me for what i have said and how i feel....because i dont toward any of you who disagree with what i have said earlier

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:17 PM
From an engineering stand point, no it would not have been done in time. Every single levee would have to be rebuilt and their are miles and miles of levee's there to rebuild.

Sorry - I was a little vague in that response. I didn't mean that all levee's had to be rebuilt, i'm jsut saying that maybe if some of them had been rebuilt, or at least some of them strengthened, then maybe there wouldn't be as big of a problem (with flooding).

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:18 PM
did i say that brett? ummm, no. and don't call me fucking stupid.

i'm sure that people 40 years ago thought the levees were adaquate. or maybe that is the best that they could do, who knows. but other administrations saw a problem and kept funding going to help with the New Orleans area - including wet land space, run through test evacuations and help if a diaster did occur - but this administration stopped all that.

So out off all the presidents in the past 40 years it comes to Bush being the one you claim should be liable for the 40 years of the levee that they knew from day one wasnt enough to stop a major storm? :rolleyes:

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:18 PM
exactly, i dont dislike anyonen here for pointing their opinion, even tho me and Paul and a few others have different views, i still like him as a person and nothing has changed, just like every other person on here...including kristi and her sister...thsi is a discusion not a battle, if thats the case, all of IA will be torn into two sides and alot of drama and fighting will take place all day everyday...basically i feel it should all stay in this thread and all related threads.....i hope no one feels animosity toward me for what i have said and how i feel....because i dont toward any of you who disagree with what i have said earlier

i still think you are a monkey butt ;) just playing with ya

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:19 PM
Sorry - I was a little vague in that response. I didn't mean that all levee's had to be rebuilt, i'm jsut saying that maybe if some of them had been rebuilt, or at least some of them strengthened, then maybe there wouldn't be as big of a problem (with flooding).

Well then I don't think you're asking the right question, which is:

Why hadn't any of them been strengthened up till now?

The money was there. It was less money, but they had it. It doesn't even count the money that the state and city appropriated for it. Most of the funding cuts weren't scheduled to happen till 2006. So it's not as though these people were penniless and waiting for a check to get this started.

Kristi
09-02-2005, 02:20 PM
So out off all the presidents in the past 40 years it comes to Bush being the one you claim should be liable for the 40 years of the levee that they knew from day one wasnt enough to stop a major storm? :rolleyes:

No, the Bush administration cut the funding. Past administrations kept funding going and did do something to reduce the risk to N.O. Clinton tried to keep more wetlands cause they help with reducing the hurricane, but this administration gave way to have those wetlands built on. Other administrations could have done more - I'm not saying that they did the best, but this administration didnt do hardly anything to prevent something like this. They hindered the whole thing.

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:22 PM
Sorry - I was a little vague in that response. I didn't mean that all levee's had to be rebuilt, i'm jsut saying that maybe if some of them had been rebuilt, or at least some of them strengthened, then maybe there wouldn't be as big of a problem (with flooding).
While I can understand your perspective, let me see if I can show you what I mean. Say that the area where the levee broke was strengthend up to a Cat. 5 level. That area is stronger now but the pressure moves on to the weaker area in the levee wall. Imagine you have a large swimming pool that is made to withstand 2000 psi but one section was only made to withstand 1000 psi. The pool sustains a constant pressure of 1700 psi. All of the pool would hold except for the 1000 psi area which would give way because it was not designed to hold that pressure. Same thing with rebuilding certain sections of a levee.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:26 PM
No, the Bush administration cut the funding. Past administrations kept funding going and did do something to reduce the risk to N.O. Clinton tried to keep more wetlands cause they help with reducing the hurricane, but this administration gave way to have those wetlands built on. Other administrations could have done more - I'm not saying that they did the best, but this administration didnt do hardly anything to prevent something like this. They hindered the whole thing.

So if there was all this funding up till recently, why weren't any levees strengthened up till now? Why is it suddenly a huge crisis when Bush is in office and they start to reign in federal funding for what should be primarily state and city-based projects? Do you even know if the state or city was going to make up the difference in funding, making it a complete wash anyways?

That's why this information is useless.

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:26 PM
No, the Bush administration cut the funding. Past administrations kept funding going and did do something to reduce the risk to N.O. Clinton tried to keep more wetlands cause they help with reducing the hurricane, but this administration gave way to have those wetlands built on. Other administrations could have done more - I'm not saying that they did the best, but this administration didnt do hardly anything to prevent something like this. They hindered the whole thing.

and like has been posted atleast 3 times now, that wasnt taking effect till 2006, so how is that again effecting now? And again, its his fault the past 40 years they didnt do anything that was needed? Wetlands wouldnt stop this disaster. The pumps being raised and put on stands would have helped ALOT to get water out as it came in, Doesnt take much money to put pumps on stands so they arent at ground level so when water rushs in, so again how is 40+ years of neglect isnt his fault.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 02:28 PM
I'm sure in hindsight, it's very easy to say that. The fact is that NO has been playing russian roulette since it was founded. The original design of the levees was lacking. Why didn't you blame Louisiana and new orleans first for not making it a priority? It's a lot easier and more efficient for states to appropriate money than the fed. government.

Like I've said a dozen times, the responsibility for a city's infrastructure goes as follows:

1) City
2) State
3) Federal

But no, you went and blamed Bush directly. Cuz you hate him.

Good thinking!

WOW YOUR RIGHT I NEVER NAMED THE LOCAL/FEDERAL GOV'T JUST BUSH!!! :jerkit:

maybe next time i'll number them in order so you can read them.


Yes, I need a tampon. I have a vagina, and it is bleeding. And there's sand in it.

This may come as a surprise to some of you. no not really :ky:

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:30 PM
Paul, answer my PM!! I saw you reading it fucker!! :D

Leisa
09-02-2005, 02:30 PM
well its not like all this fucking bickering is going to fix all the problems at hand now.. hindsight is 20/20.... you live and learn, they now (I am assuming) know what needs to be done, and when all this chaos is over and done with lets just pray that things get back to normal...

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:33 PM
WOW YOUR RIGHT I NEVER NAMED THE LOCAL/FEDERAL GOV'T JUST BUSH!!! :jerkit:

maybe next time i'll number them in order so you can read them.

no not really :ky:


-Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country

-Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.

-ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!

-really it took how many days to do a fly over there??? are you fucking mad, the president of the USA, is the most powerful man in the world, if it takes him almost a week to get to a disaster area then there is a severe problem. it would be different if he put effort 1st to securing the area, but he has not. i don't know what news you have been watching but shit has been crazy all week. Where is the Commander and chief? playing golf? having lunch??? vacation???

-the reason its not secure is b/c Bush has us spread too thin, we are at war w/ 2 countries, and he didn't leave enough balls to defend his own country from mother nature


Yeah, you really came in here with guns blazing blaming the local government. No, that took you till page 7 to even mention it.

Why do you say such silly things when people can just click a few times to prove you wrong?

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:38 PM
You need to quote the parts that arent yours, I thought that was all what you were sayin till I realized it was Pauls post you posted...LOL

4dmin
09-02-2005, 02:46 PM
-Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country

-Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.

-ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!

-really it took how many days to do a fly over there??? are you fucking mad, the president of the USA, is the most powerful man in the world, if it takes him almost a week to get to a disaster area then there is a severe problem. it would be different if he put effort 1st to securing the area, but he has not. i don't know what news you have been watching but shit has been crazy all week. Where is the Commander and chief? playing golf? having lunch??? vacation???

-the reason its not secure is b/c Bush has us spread too thin, we are at war w/ 2 countries, and he didn't leave enough balls to defend his own country from mother nature


Yeah, you really came in here with guns blazing blaming the local government. No, that took you till page 7 to even mention it.

Why do you say such silly things when people can just click a few times to prove you wrong?

7 pages really... do i need to prove you wrong? since you want to quote me...


i agree, but everyone is at fault starting from the mayor to DC.


This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.

both of those were on page one & page two of different threads.. by the way it was posted before lunch time too. so get your shit straight before you want to call me out. :goodjob:

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:46 PM
so go right ahead and think i'm on bush-hating-bandwagon.... i fucking started it on here ask Brett/Jamie. :lmfao:

Yes, me and Paul have had MANY debates on here in the past 4+ years on Bush topic, I always enjoy a good debate with people who research what they talk about, before posting it.

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 02:47 PM
ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSITUTION


" WE ARE OUT HERE LIKE ANIMALS,..WE DON'T HAVE HELP!?

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:48 PM
Instead of doing quotes, do research, and you dont have to quote what we all know is going on in NOL.

B16a2 Civic
09-02-2005, 02:48 PM
ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSITUTION


" WE ARE OUT HERE LIKE ANIMALS,..WE DON'T HAVE HELP!?


.....

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 02:49 PM
Research..Go look it up yourself smart Man. cause its all very true..so little help..most people in miss. and Alabama still dont have help. Slow Response.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 02:49 PM
7 pages really... do i need to prove you wrong? since you want to quote me...





both of those were on page one & page two of different threads.. by the way it was posted before lunch time too. so get your shit straight before you want to call me out. :goodjob:

You're right, your first comment was on page 5, not 7. I think my point still stands.

And, as for your second comment, you do know that New Orleans is in Louisiana, and the seat of the federal government is DC, right? So this doesn't help your case when you say you were blaming the local governments first.

In this thread, you went right for Bush, and had nobody called you on it, you would have stayed there.

Do we really need to have a discussion about how many times you were wrong or shown to be misinformed in this thread? 'empty sarin canister' ring a bell?

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Research..Go look it up yourself smart Man. cause its all very true..so little help..most people in miss. and Alabama still dont have help. Slow Response.
So you even understand how large this hurricane was? A lot of the areas in Al and Ms are inaccessible at this time and they can't get in to them. The places they can get to are getting help you just don't see that much about them because they are acting civil compared to N.O.

Julio
09-02-2005, 02:54 PM
technoteg97 you need to shut the fuck up or You will be ban for fucking ever.


Interesting thread. Im surprised jaime is not in here..

Anyways.. I agree with malfeas99 150% he made more valid points then anyone else in this thread.
He Even said a couple of times he does not like bush.

Me personally wouldnt blame bush for nothing. Im sure hes doing anything in his power.

Im willing to bet If bush was there MONDAY when the disaster started he wouldve still Be bashed. Why send the Most important man in our goverment and in the world to that mess at this moment? Does not make sense. Wait until things somewhat calm down and then make a move....

Honestly, Theres no one to blame for the disaster but mother nature. Theres nothing in this world that can fuck with mother nature. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
I really dont care for bush.. But I agree with valid points when I see or read them.

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:54 PM
Research..Go look it up yourself smart Man. cause its all very true..so little help..most people in miss. and Alabama still dont have help. Slow Response.

And you quoting a headline is news to anyone who is even remotley aware of the events this week. Again... Post up stuff that has meaning, not alot to ask.

Brett
09-02-2005, 02:54 PM
technoteg97 you need to shut the fuck up or You will be ban for fucking ever.


Damn even the owner of the site thinks you are a fucking moron!! Way to get on the good side of the right people on here :rolleyes:

4dmin
09-02-2005, 03:01 PM
You're right, your first comment was on page 5, not 7. I think my point still stands.

And, as for your second comment, you do know that New Orleans is in Louisiana, and the seat of the federal government is DC, right? So this doesn't help your case when you say you were blaming the local governments first.

In this thread, you went right for Bush, and had nobody called you on it, you would have stayed there.

Do we really need to have a discussion about how many times you were wrong or shown to be misinformed in this thread? 'empty sarin canister' ring a bell?

page 5? nice try #33 post was on page 2.

by the way you want to talk about your sarin gas canister again... let me guess you think it was full, did you happen to read it was a shell they found??? what is a shell??? ok must of been full :jerkit:


"It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED and basically from the detection of that and when it exploded, it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," Kimmitt said.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 03:12 PM
page 5? nice try #33 post was on page 2.

Post #33 was on page 3 (for me at least) and didn't mention anything about the local governments:


Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country

http://forums.importatlanta.com/sho...0190#post280190

^ read this

** Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.


by the way you want to talk about your sarin gas canister again... let me guess you think it was full, did you happen to read it was a shell they found??? what is a shell??? ok must of been full :jerkit:

OMG ROFL. I seriously could not keep myself from laughing when I read this.

Dictionary definition of 'shell':
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shell

As you can see, just because something is called a 'shell' does not mean it is empty. In this case, it was filled with enough Sarin to have killed about 50,000 people had the chemicals mixed properly.

ALL ARTILLERY ROUNDS ARE CALLED SHELLS WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.

Why don't we go out to the practice range and we'll lob a few 'shells' from a 155mm cannon at you, you'll be fine, since you know, shells are empty. LOLOLOLZ omg.

4dmin
09-02-2005, 03:17 PM
Post #33 was on page 3 (for me at least) and didn't mention anything about the local governments:





OMG ROFL. I seriously could not keep myself from laughing when I read this.

Dictionary definition of 'shell':
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shell

As you can see, just because something is called a 'shell' does not mean it is empty. In this case, it was filled with enough Sarin to have killed about 50,000 people had the chemicals mixed properly.

ALL ARTILLERY ROUNDS ARE CALLED SHELLS WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.

Why don't we go out to the practice range and we'll lob a few 'shells' from a 155mm cannon at you, you'll be fine, since you know, shells are empty. LOLOLOLZ omg.


The usually hard outer covering ya they found a shell the outer portion... it had exploded near a base. was it full no? you said it was a "CANISTER"!!! like they were finding stock piles of chemical weapons.

malfeas99
09-02-2005, 03:21 PM
ya they found a shell the outer portion... it had exploded near a base. was it full no? you said it was a "CANISTER"!!! like they were finding stock piles of chemical weapons.

In the shell is a canister that holds two chemicals, when the shell explodes and is mixed, you get sarin gas.

I never said they found stockpiles. We haven't found stockpiles.. though it is worth noting that Hussein's entire Anthrax stockpile would fit into a large suitcase (though it could kill millions).

But the fact is, WMD's HAVE been found. Sarin has been found, mustard gas has been found, and a few tons of low-enriched uranium have all been found, amongst other things.

ISAtlanta300
09-02-2005, 03:49 PM
Why didn't we have this kind of problem with Hurricane Andrew?

A.P. Photography
09-02-2005, 03:53 PM
Why didn't we have this kind of problem with Hurricane Andrew?
The flood waters were able to receed on andrew and crews could get in to clean up, N.O. does not have the luxury since it is basically a big soup bowl.

AznTraitor
09-02-2005, 04:07 PM
Damn even the owner of the site thinks you are a fucking moron!! Way to get on the good side of the right people on here :rolleyes:


how quickly he shuts up, isnt it great!

SNapper
09-02-2005, 04:19 PM
anytime anything extreme happens all the not so thoughtfull people blame bush, just like 911

Brett
09-02-2005, 04:25 PM
Why didn't we have this kind of problem with Hurricane Andrew?

iI went through Andrew, Florida doesnt get hit like this and flood because florida is flat and at or above sea level in all parts. New Orleans is BELOW sea leavel, meaning when the water breaks in, it has no place to go but up... so thats why they have 15+ feet of water now. The pumps they have that are supposed to suck water out are on th eground, which means when the ground floods so did the pumps.

ISAtlanta300
09-02-2005, 08:45 PM
True, but I am talking about the response time. I was there as well, in a shelter, on 163rd street. Granted I was not around "ground zero", but aid did definitely come quick and everybody was well taken care off within 48 hours.....The major problem was with water and ice distribution and price gouging (chain saws etc) but people did not go to the extreme (looting and killing each other). There was also a mandatory curfew, even as far up as dade county and people respected that as well.....

quickdodge®
09-02-2005, 08:54 PM
The DISASTER was partially his fault.

Actually, the disaster was 100% the hurricane's fault. President Bush had nothing to do with that. I think you may be refering to relief efforts maybe being partially his fault. Later, QD.

Brett
09-02-2005, 08:55 PM
This has become a great topic :D

Julio
09-02-2005, 09:25 PM
I just spoke with an ALIEN... he said that BUSH set up about 1.5 million fans in the GULF to cause this hurricane.

Brett
09-02-2005, 09:27 PM
I just spoke with an ALIEN... he said that BUSH set up about 1.5 million fans in the GULF to cause this hurricane.

Damn Kristi and Heather will be glad to know thier theory was right on good 'ol dubya!!

nightracer
09-02-2005, 10:37 PM
The rebuttals to the article in this thread are indicative of people's inability to think on their own. :gay:

Brett
09-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Which members? lol

AWD OWNZ U
09-02-2005, 11:05 PM
Actually, the disaster was 100% the hurricane's fault. President Bush had nothing to do with that. I think you may be refering to relief efforts maybe being partially his fault. Later, QD.

The lack of relief efforts are what are making it such a large scale disaster. The disaster doesn't stop when the storm leaves. Some of you act like Bush is powerless to do anything. It's state controlled? You don't think the PRESIDENT could have any effect on what goes on? PLEASE. The National Guard could have and should have been deployed DAYS ago. Bush should have cancelled all his dumbass PR bullshit gigs and done his damn job. Just because he didn't cause the hurricane doesn't mean he's not responsible for the massive fuck-up that has happend since. Oh and people who said it was unsafe for him to go there, riiiiight. You think small arms fire can even hit a jet let alone do any damage?

D16Civic
09-02-2005, 11:30 PM
i doubt small arms could do damage to a jet as well, but do u mind explaining how Bush flying over NO in a jet is goin to do any freaking good.
That statement just sounds retarded to me. I fail to see the point of him flying over in a jet

technoteg97
09-02-2005, 11:30 PM
So you even understand how large this hurricane was? A lot of the areas in Al and Ms are inaccessible at this time and they can't get in to them. The places they can get to are getting help you just don't see that much about them because they are acting civil compared to N.O.

Why are they acting Civil and why do they need to? and they arent showing anyone getting food and water only showing people on the streets asking for help on cnn and fox ive seen so far.

AWD OWNZ U
09-02-2005, 11:49 PM
i doubt small arms could do damage to a jet as well, but do u mind explaining how Bush flying over NO in a jet is goin to do any freaking good.
That statement just sounds retarded to me. I fail to see the point of him flying over in a jet

Because the people on the ground would get the impression that their president cared? So they wouldn't feel abandoned? I'm sure it's something they could have used.

KNHTRDR
09-02-2005, 11:51 PM
Natural Disaster
Yep, Ms. Mother Nature Got Pissed off and if people don't stop Blaming other people... she Might get mad again!

technoteg97
09-03-2005, 12:05 AM
TOYOTA PLEDGED 5 Million?

KNHTRDR
09-03-2005, 12:21 AM
Personally I think that this should NOT be a political issue at all but it's to late for all that. when the tsunmi hit ppl were helping ppl not shooting and acting a fool when outside help came if I was tryin to help you and you shoot at me guess what you gettin left.
they have been knowing for years that this was a possibility help was a little late but it got there. the mayor of NO is a joke. the real sad thing about it is after its all said and done and the re building comes...it could become a mini las vegas think about it gambling is legal they starting with a clean slate the poor folks would be gone...emt. domain, our gov't at work!

Desdicado
09-03-2005, 11:28 AM
True, but I am talking about the response time.

In war, some of the first targets we take out are "infrastructure". That's bridges, communications relays, radar, etc. Katrina knocked out everything but Satellite communciation there. Most people who don't study war fail to understand just how important bridges (and infrastructure in general) are to a city, especiallly cities like New Orleans that are built on what used to be marshlands. In Florida, if a bridge goes out (say one of the ones running along the panhandle) it's easy to go up country a bit and bypass the damaged bridge. Even if the roads were taken out you still have fairly hard packed ground thats been developed (to some extent) making it difficult, at worst, for heavy supply trucks (Deuce and halfs, tractors trailers, etc.) to pass, but not impossible.

Map of the City of New Orleans (http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=New+Orleans,+LA)

Zoom out 2 or 3 times so you can fully see what I'm talking about.
There are 7 major bridges leading into New Orleans; 2 railroad bridges, 2 interstate bridges (10 and 310), and then surface street bridges (lacking the technical term here, bare with me). Of those 7 bridges, 6 are on the East side, the side that was hit hardest by Katrina (as the storm passed to the West of NO). They, at this point, are damaged and unsafe. They can bare the weight of people, but you get a convoy of 2 1/2 ton trucks, HMMMVs, and tractor trailers rolling across and you're running into serious structural problems. More than likely, they will collapse if they haven't already.

Now when most people cross a bridge, say the one running over the Chatthoochee on 400, they don't stop to think twice about it. Now, think what would happen if that bridge went out. People would use Holcomb Bridge road and Roswell road, thus adding about 1-3 hours of congestion depending on the time of day. But, if a storm took out the 400 bridge, it more than likely would have taken out all the other smaller bridges as well, or vice versa, all the smaller bridges are gone and you just have the one running on 400. Try cramming all the people trying to get to and from the Northside and the city on that bridge, bad juju.

New Orleans is that scenario taken exponentially. Had Katrina hit to the west, the city would have been in a better position. All the major highways in the South East leading to New Orleans were in the Path of Katrina (10, 59, 12, 55, & 65). Also note they run through the states hit worst by the storm. Thats a hell of a lot of infrastructure knocked out. Coming in from the West wouldnt be a problem, except that the bridges on the West side are the only things above the water (Switch the map to the red button that says "Katrina" and zoom in and you'll see what I'm talking about). The West side, for the most part, is impassable bayou. Along with the (minor) flooding there, what few roads are left are already being overwhelmed with refugees going out and supply convoys going in.

That's why it's taken so long for Federal supplies to get in. Had we staged troops and supplies (ignoring Posse Comitatus) closer to where Katrina was going to hit, they'd be casualties and lost. The States with the easiest access to Katrina (Who's NG troops could get there the quickest) were also hit hard. This means we have to bring in units from further inland, which takes time. Storms are unpredictable so there was no point in staging them where we thought it would be safe (remember, Katrina originally was going to be right on top of NO and instead made landfall to the East).

It's hard to move supplies into a city if there is no localized Command and Control, no way safe way in, and no infrastructure to distribute the supplies safely and in an orderly manner.

I do not like Bush, but, I understand that ultimate responsibility lies with the Mayor of New Orleans, the Governor of Louisiana, and the People who chose to stay behind. They had one weeks worth of notice. I don't know about you, but I was always taught that if I didn't take care of myself nobody else would. What the mayor should have done as soon as Katrina hit Cat 3 (4 days out of NO btw) is order a mandatory evacuation (instead of one 1 day before) and used the City Buses, the School buses, and every other vehicle at their disposal to evacuate Children, the Elderly and sick, and then everybody else. There was no way for the Federal Government to respond in time, the responsibility had to fall onto the shoulders of local and State, who failed. In a weeks time people in decent shape could have evacuated at least to Baton Rouge (Where, with 4 days notice they could have used state and local equipment to move them to safer areas to the West, as they are doing now). I do not buy this "We were poor and had no choice but to stay." Unless you're a quadriplegic, you had a way of getting out of the city. It's one human beings have used for millions of years, your legs. I've seen 80 year old Kosovars walk out of their villages with packs on their backs into the mountains in the dead of winter because a Serb army was coming through to kill them. Had the people who stayed behind in New Orleans shown 1/10th of the intestinal fortitude and sense of self preservation that these people did they wouldn't find themselves in their current circumstances.

Had the Mayor and Governor used the resources at their disposal combined with the head notice of the magnitude of the storm they were given this would be an entirely different situation. Instead they chose to wait around and see what Big Brother would do to help. The Federal machine is slow to respond to anything and inefficient at the best of times. The people who could not have been evac'd would then have been able to stay at the dome, and with the notice the Government of LA was given they could have centralized the Police there and prevented the rapid spiral into barbarity that took place there. For whatever reason, they chose not to. They chose to spread their resources out and have CINC resources located in places below sea level (the Superdome is above). As soon as the city flooded, CINC went out the window.

People ask why the Army and Marines weren't sent in immediately to help police. This was covered earlier when someone mentioned the Posse Comitatus Act. Except in express situations (War, or major civil disturance) the Military cannot be used to Police the civilian populace of the United States. This is fundemental to the preservation of our liberties. THroughout history the oppression of a populace has almost always been carried out by those using the military, to prevent this the PCA was passed. Notice, though, that as soon as the Police fled (or turned into looters) and thugs started shooting at aid workers, the military was sent in. The Federal government responded exactly as it was meat to with the military. FEMA did fail, but thats a conversation for another post.

Is it Bush's fault? Only so far as it is the fault of every President since FDR whom have all encouraged Americans to become more reliant upon the State and less reliant upon themselves.

Is it the fault of FEMA? Only so far as they haven't made it mandatory at this time for every American to take a disaster preparedness course (or at least those in high risk areas).

Is it the fault of the Governor of Louisiana? Yes. Blanco failed to use the resources at her disposal efficiently and wisely. She chose to play "Wait and see" and thats now caused the deaths of thousands of the citizens of her State.

Is it the fault of the Mayor of New Orleans? Yes. The Mandatory evacuation order and Martial Law should have been declared 3-4 days before the storm hit. Better use and of resources should have been made and more thought should been put into the deployment of Police forces and their role to play. Looters taking anything but food shoot have been shot on sight.

Is it the fault of the people who stayed? Marginally. They should have used every means necessary (including their own two legs) to get the hell out of Dodge. Instead they chose to stay and didn't even go to the Superdome. They knew what was coming and chose to take their chances without first stocking up ahead I've time. I have been dirty poor in my life time. So damn poor I couldn't even afford to gas up a car and had to walk to and from work. I still managed to keep two weeks worth of canned food, water, and other supplies on hand. It's amazing how often that proved useful when my utilities were cut off, I didn't even need a natural disaster to make use of it all.

Sorry for the long post, but this is just a scratch on the depth of the logistical nightmare Katrina is and will continue to be.

If you think things are bad now, wait till disease starts to take hold.

KNHTRDR
09-03-2005, 09:23 PM
^I agree with ya on that, but You know how the truth hurts.

Desdicado
09-04-2005, 12:26 AM
^I agree with ya on that, but You know how the truth hurts.


speaking of truth

Foamy the Squirrel on Katrina (http://www.illwillpress.com/kat.html)

djmaddmartin
09-04-2005, 10:39 AM
Hell yeah! I feel the same way. Just like all the Republicans trying to defend Dubya with total BS instead of just saying, Yeah he fucked up, but what can we do to help and make sure this never happens again.... Hmmm how about !!! NOT ELECTING A COMPLETER UTER FUCKING MORON NEXT TIME!!! I'm sure you can find someone better to back next time... anyone! Please... or you might be seeing another mad tree climbing rodent comin' at you live baby!

malfeas99
09-08-2005, 04:07 PM
BTW, since this thread seemed to have the most talk about the funding for the Engineer Corps, I thought I would share a revelation regarding said funding, from an article:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/125/5602732.html

Text of article:

Before Hurricane Katrina breached a levee on the New Orleans Industrial Canal, the Army Corps of Engineers had launched a $748 million construction project at that very location. But the project had nothing to do with flood control. The Corps was building a massive new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic.

Except barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.

In Katrina's wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush's administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times larger.

Much of that Louisiana money was spent to try to keep low-lying New Orleans dry. But hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to unrelated water projects demanded by the state's congressional delegation and approved by the Corps, often after economic analyses that turned out to be inaccurate. Despite a series of independent investigations criticizing Army Corps construction projects as wasteful pork-barrel spending, Louisiana's representatives have kept bringing home the bacon.

For example, after a $194 million deepening project for the Port of Iberia flunked a Corps cost-benefit analysis, Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., tucked language into an emergency Iraq spending bill ordering the agency to redo its calculations. The Corps also spends tens of millions of dollars a year dredging little-used waterways like the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, the Atchafalaya River and the Red River -- now known as the J. Bennett Johnston Waterway, in honor of the project's congressional godfather -- for barge traffic that turns out to be less than forecast.

Most controversial

The Industrial Canal lock is one of the agency's most controversial projects, sued by residents of a New Orleans low-income black neighborhood and cited by an alliance of environmentalists and taxpayer advocates as the fifth-worst current Corps boondoggle. In 1998, the Corps justified its plan to build a new lock -- rather than fix the old lock for a tiny fraction of the cost -- by predicting huge increases in barge traffic.

In fact, barge traffic on the canal had been plummeting since 1994, but the Corps left that data out of its study. And barges have continued to avoid the canal since the study was finished, even though they are visiting the port in increased numbers.

Pam Dashiell, president of the Holy Cross Neighborhood Association, remembers holding a protest against the lock four years ago -- right where the levee broke last week. Now she's holed up with her family in a St. Louis hotel, and her neighborhood is underwater. "Our politicians never cared half as much about protecting us as they cared about pork," she said.

Wednesday, congressional defenders of the Corps said they hoped the fallout from Hurricane Katrina would pave the way for billions of dollars of additional spending on water projects. Steve Ellis, a Corps critic with Taxpayers for Common Sense, called their push "the legislative equivalent of looting."

Louisiana's politicians have requested much more money for New Orleans hurricane protection than the Bush administration has proposed or Congress has provided. In the last budget bill, Louisiana's delegation requested $27.1 million for shoring up levees around Lake Pontchartrain, the full amount the Corps had declared as its "project capability." Bush suggested $3.9 million, and Congress agreed to spend $5.7 million.

Administration officials also scaled back a long-term project to restore Louisiana's disappearing coastal marshes, which once provided a measure of natural hurricane protection for New Orleans. They ordered the Corps to stop work on a $14 billion plan and devise a $2 billion plan instead.

Levees only so strong

But overall, the Bush administration's funding requests for the key New Orleans flood-control projects for the past five years were slightly higher than the Clinton administration's for its past five years. Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the chief of the Corps, has said that in any event, more money would not have prevented the drowning of the city, since its levees were only designed to protect against a Category 3 storm. Strock also has said the marsh restoration project would not have done much to diminish Katrina's storm surge, which passed east of the coastal wetlands.

"The project manager for the Great Pyramids probably put in a request for 100 million shekels and only got 50 million," said John Paul Woodley Jr., the Bush administration official overseeing the Corps. "Flood protection is always a work in progress; on any given day, if you ask whether any community has all the protection it needs, the answer is almost always: Maybe, but maybe not."

The Corps had been studying the possibility of upgrading the New Orleans levees for a higher level of protection before Katrina hit, but Woodley said that study would not have been finished for years. Still, liberal bloggers, Democratic politicians and some Republican defenders of the Corps have linked the catastrophe to the underfunding of the agency.

"We've been hollering about funding for years, but everyone would say: There goes Louisiana again, asking for more money," said former Democratic senator John Breaux. "We've had some powerful people in powerful places, but we never got what we needed."

djmaddmartin
09-09-2005, 09:59 AM
hmm.

malfeas99
09-09-2005, 02:34 PM
hmm.

Sounds like this fella had a bit of what we like to call a 'padded resume'.

He's been removed from hurricane emergency response management.