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Vteckidd
09-08-2008, 06:58 PM
I had this big long drawn out post, but unfortunately my computer crashed so its lost forever.

Ill let my father summarize and ill add one more thing when i get back from dinner


Facts are facts.



Despite being at war and inheriting a real recession caused by .Com bubble burst and 9-11.



Unemployment

Clinton 8 years: 5.2

Bush 7 years 5.18 (includes high recession years)



GDP Growth

Clinton 8 years 3.5

Bush 7 years 2.4 (which includes the Recession Bush inherited from Clinton Administration)



Home ownership:

Clinton highest 67.8%

CURRENT Bush 68.7%



Although the economy cost Bush Senior his re-election campaign, history has proven that the recession in that era was eliminated BEFORE Clinton took office and in fact he got to ride a false .COM boom (it was real but it was not a fiscally solid boom)—a boom which burst and manifested itself in Bush’s numbers.



Just another few things to consider:



Our economy is outperforming all economies of similar countries—Europeans for example—this is a global downturn.



The jobs we lost we can’t get back—we aren’t postured to compete with cheap labor goods.



Have a serious discussion –it isn’t rocket science.



Obama wants to raise tariffs to cause America to be more competitive in the US Market and create jobs—but what does that mean ?



It means the Toy from China which cost 5 now and was made with 3 dollars an hour (or whatever) labor will now cost $ 8 –and at 8$ an US company can pay a US worker minimum wage and we can compete. The problem of course to the consumers is they now pay $8 bucks for the toy. A recipe for inflation. Anyone thinking the good old days for the Auto Industry can return is just crazy stupid—the only way we got competitive is by automation and decreasing manufacturing type jobs—basically doing only the assembly tasks. And unless you want to subsidize jobs here by paying higher prices this won’t work.



Obama wants to raise taxes—history has proven raising taxes hurts the creation of jobs, capital and tax revenues—just a fact in the last 3 reduction of taxes, growth occurred and the resulting revenues were larger as a result. He can claim he is only going after the “rich” --while this is a lie, let’s agree it is true. What does a rich person do with more money? They create more wealth buy investing in the expansion of their business—sometimes it is in their business—other times it is in other luxury goods they buy. Do we want no more Rolls Royces to be made? But let’s be more specific and talk about the real folks he is going after—the small business folks making >250K. These folks are the source of the vast majority of our new jobs—you know the 8M new jobs Bush created in the recession/war time economy he inherited (let’s face it if the terrorists hadn’t done 9/11 we would not be in IRAQ—and clearly the 9/11 attacks are far more Clinton responsibility than Bush). Bush inherited a weak on security and recessive economy from Clinton—just facts no matter how the left spins it. But Bush’s tax cuts enabled small business’s to invest more in growth and grow faster as a result.



Just think about it—we are so stupid—we give stimulus tax refund checks to only people who paid little or no taxes—and they spend it on energy costs or consumer goods. Not a bad thing—but if the purpose was to stimulate growth the rebates should have gone to real taxpayers, who might have used the money to grow their businesses—employ more folks, which by the way generates even more tax revenues—no wonder it had little effect. Sad truth is was a pathetic attempt by both Bush and Pelosi/Reid to bribe stupid Americans in to thinking they care and were thinking of them in an election year. Vote for sale--



The rhetoric is just crazy –and the pea brains don’t bother to ask “how?”



Another point to consider:



The last time we had a liberal congress with a liberal President was Jimmy Carter—and this Congress is currently the worst in our history if you believe polls. Reagan was counter-balanced by Democrats in Congress and Clinton was counter-balanced Newt Gingrich led Congress. An Obama/Reid/Pelosi leadership team will be a disaster of enormous proportions.

sicivic89
09-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Reps! I totally agree! Vote NO to their chosen one!

Also, don't forget that Obama wants to raise the taxes on businesses which will mean they will be forced to raise the prices of the goods they sell. This includes petroleum companies too meaning driving the price of gas even higher.

Deke
09-08-2008, 08:06 PM
Our economy is outperforming all economies of similar countries—Europeans for example—this is a global downturn.


Well, I guess I can't really ask you because it's your last post in this category. But can someone else clue me in. If our economy is outperforming economies of similar countries, why is the exchange rate for the US dollar so bad? This is a sincere question by the way. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. It just seems like the two would be correlated and after being in Europe all summer, I can tell you the US dollar sucks in comparison to the Euro and Pound.

man
09-08-2008, 08:41 PM
Well, I guess I can't really ask you because it's your last post in this category. But can someone else clue me in. If our economy is outperforming economies of similar countries, why is the exchange rate for the US dollar so bad? This is a sincere question by the way. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. It just seems like the two would be correlated and after being in Europe all summer, I can tell you the US dollar sucks in comparison to the Euro and Pound.

I would like to know this also...

BanginJimmy
09-08-2008, 09:06 PM
I dont know all of the factors, but I do know that the value of monies is based on confidence. Tresuries and such are traded on Wall St. and other stock markets world wide. Just like other commodities, if it is in demand, it is more expensive. Less demand, less expensive.

Alan®
09-08-2008, 09:46 PM
I would like to know this also...
X3

Your pops and my pops should meet though mike lol.

JITB
09-09-2008, 12:48 AM
Reps! I totally agree! Vote NO to their chosen one!

Also, don't forget that Obama wants to raise the taxes on businesses which will mean they will be forced to raise the prices of the goods they sell. This includes petroleum companies too meaning driving the price of gas even higher.

95%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

stephen
09-09-2008, 02:18 AM
i'm curious as to where your dad got his "facts." let's see how they compare to "official" records...shall we?

UNEMPLOYMENT: ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat1.txt

pay close attention to the 9th and 10th columns (# of unemployed, and percentage) from the years 1981 - 2007. you do realize clinton never had one year where it increased right?

GDP HISTORY: http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=1&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Freq=Year&FirstYear=1992&LastYear=2008&3Place=N&Update=Update&JavaBox=no

the table should already be set from 92-2008. once again...what trend do we notice from 91-99 vs. 2000 - 2008?

RECESSION HAND OFF: http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=1&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Freq=Qtr&FirstYear=1999&LastYear=2001&3Place=N&Update=Update&JavaBox=no

recession is typically defined as two consecutive negative quarters...right? this chart shows all positives for all 4 quarters of 99 & slow, but still positive in the 1st quarter of 2000.... so how can clinton have "handed off" a recession?

HOME OWNERSHIP: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/historic/index.html

CHECK TABLES 5, 6, & 7. once again, checkout 91-2007. table 7 gives you a bigger picture if you do the math.

91-99
10,768 housing units created
9,087 new owners
ALMOST 1 owner for every new unit

2000-07
8,330 housing units created
3,909 new owners

MORE THAN double the amout of new owners to new homes

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE to compare the u.s. economy to that of europe. there are far too many factors that influence either one. you do realize that we are in DEBT to europe, right?

i will say that you're PARTIALLY right on the whole tariff deal. i do agree that we need to find a way to develop our good cheapers. the problem is, our economy is hurting NOW. that's what conservatives don't want to accept. we're spending far more than we need to, on things we can control.

I FOUND THIS ARTICLE FROM 1993...PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT ARTICLE...it's basically someone bashing clinton's tax hikes just like you conservatives are doing now. it's kinda funny...i hope you find it interesting.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/BG928.cfm

Mik2006
09-09-2008, 07:09 AM
we dont need the american dollar to go down anymore then its going. and its gonna take sometime and you cant even trust that all these promises are even gonna happen...

Total_Blender
09-09-2008, 07:37 AM
Hey Stephen... your GDP HISTORY link you posted gets even better when you extend it back to 1988. We see it drop with Bush Sr. too, he plow GDP Growth all the way down to -0.2 in 1991:lmfao:

sicivic89
09-09-2008, 07:55 AM
Anyone watch Bill O'Reilly last night? He said that he and his team have done their homework and the Government brought in 20% more revenue under Bush compared to Clinton and Bush gave us a tax cut.

Obama will end up raising the cost of living. He keeps telling everyone that he will tax the rich only and give to the poor. Wealth redistribution is what it is. But he also wants to tax businesses and raise the capital gains tax. When you tax businesses and companies, it causes them to raise their prices to make up for the lost revenue. Therefore hitting us Americans in the wallet.

If the businesses and companies have higher taxes, do you think they are just going to say ok and eat up the extra expenses? NO, they will raise their prices.

tony
09-09-2008, 08:00 AM
Just the last thing.. Jimmy Carter struggled through his presidency because he was constantly at odds with congress, they couldn't agree so they could not pass anything even though they came from the same party.

I do agree absolute power corrupts and a veto proof democratic congress and presidency is just asking for trouble but at this point it can't get much worse than what we got now.

4dmin
09-09-2008, 08:01 AM
Anyone watch Bill O'Reilly last night? He said that he and his team have done their homework and the Government brought in 20% more revenue under Bush compared to Clinton and Bush gave us a tax cut.

Obama will end up raising the cost of living. He keeps telling everyone that he will tax the rich only and give to the poor. Wealth redistribution is what it is. But he also wants to tax businesses and raise the capital gains tax. When you tax businesses and companies, it causes them to raise their prices to make up for the lost revenue. Therefore hitting us Americans in the wallet.

If the businesses and companies have higher taxes, do you think they are just going to say ok and eat up the extra expenses? NO, they will raise their prices.

more money brought on under Bush let me guess does that include the adjustments added during his administration to our HUGE DEFICIT? i'm sure it doesn't so in reality we probably made more during clinton administration.

you don't keep up with current events - prices on everything have increased from gas, milk, corn, energy, etc... why b/c global increase and energy/fuel concerns. so under Bush administration and his "tax cuts" it has now cost us more to live... Obama has already said tax cuts for everyone under 250k; which i'm sure you are. furthermore independent analyst have already stated americans will save more w/ Obama tax cuts then McCains tax cuts.

man
09-09-2008, 10:26 AM
...it can't get much worse than what we got now.

You never know, I'm just saying... Speeches are great and all, but no matter which candidate you are voting for, you really can't know until they get elected.

JITB
09-09-2008, 10:51 AM
Anyone watch Bill O'Reilly last night? He said that he and his team have done their homework and the Government brought in 20% more revenue under Bush compared to Clinton and Bush gave us a tax cut.

Obama will end up raising the cost of living. He keeps telling everyone that he will tax the rich only and give to the poor. Wealth redistribution is what it is. But he also wants to tax businesses and raise the capital gains tax. When you tax businesses and companies, it causes them to raise their prices to make up for the lost revenue. Therefore hitting us Americans in the wallet.

If the businesses and companies have higher taxes, do you think they are just going to say ok and eat up the extra expenses? NO, they will raise their prices.


So what happens you give tax breaks to business like they are getting no w? OH! they raise prices! Instead of lower prices and creating jobs, Businesss have done the opposite.

SPOOLIN
09-10-2008, 10:31 AM
we have a winner

ShooterMcGavin
09-10-2008, 01:48 PM
wow didn't realize mike was a conservative :P

Deke
09-11-2008, 05:39 PM
Well, I guess I can't really ask you because it's your last post in this category. But can someone else clue me in. If our economy is outperforming economies of similar countries, why is the exchange rate for the US dollar so bad? This is a sincere question by the way. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. It just seems like the two would be correlated and after being in Europe all summer, I can tell you the US dollar sucks in comparison to the Euro and Pound.

Well since you are still making new posts, I still want my question answered :D

4dmin
09-11-2008, 05:40 PM
I WILL CALL BS B/C YOU ARE STILL POSTING MIKE :2up:

ShooterMcGavin
09-12-2008, 08:46 AM
you should ban him, then he can't post anymore... :lmao: