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tony
09-01-2008, 02:05 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.

quickdodge®
09-01-2008, 02:08 PM
Hope you weren't looking for a discussion on this topic. Later, QD.

Nismo
09-01-2008, 02:11 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.

We as republicans dont care about what you think.

Thank you.

quickdodge®
09-01-2008, 02:13 PM
We as republicans dont care about what you think.

Thank you.

See, lolol. Trying to put a serious topic in the WL. Who does that? Later, QD.

Big Baller
09-01-2008, 02:15 PM
Yeah well Obamas Black.....what do you have to say to that

Nismo
09-01-2008, 02:16 PM
Yeah well Obamas Black.....what do you have to say to that

I would figure since he's black he is all for DWI's and un-wed mothers...


(waits for giant flame war to start)

japan4racing
09-01-2008, 02:22 PM
i dont see how either of the situations at hand effect ones ability to help run a country. why dont we worry about important things like taxes or homeland security..not 20 year old dui convictions and a 17 year old getting pregnant....at least she waited till 17. my first pregnancy scare was at 15

quickdodge®
09-01-2008, 02:24 PM
my first pregnancy scare was at 15
Lolol. Later, QD.

Maniacc
09-01-2008, 02:29 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.
I don't know anyone who's so much enthusiastic about democrats as they are appalled by republitards. Democrats don't even have to be good to be better than the fantasy world sh*theadedness promoted by republicans. The fact that her daughter is only 17 and pregnant just show's that the saying 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is true.

BobbyFresco
09-01-2008, 02:31 PM
i dont see how either of the situations at hand effect ones ability to help run a country. why dont we worry about important things like taxes or homeland security..not 20 year old dui convictions and a 17 year old getting pregnant....at least she waited till 17. my first pregnancy scare was at 15


It's pretty simple. Republicans are all about morals and family values and being generally judgemental of others who do not participate in their way of life.

Now I'm willing to bet that to an average republican, a 17 year old child having a child out of wedlock is not in keeping of moral high ground they set for themselves. Def not for someone who is running for a presidential position.

quickdodge®
09-01-2008, 02:34 PM
It's pretty simple. Republicans are all about morals and family values and being generally judgemental of others who do not participate in their way of life.

HEY!!!

I thought that was Christian people? Later, QD.

BobbyFresco
09-01-2008, 02:35 PM
I don't know anyone who's so much enthusiastic about democrats as they are appalled by republitards. Democrats don't even have to be good to be better than the fantasy world sh*theadedness promoted by republicans. The fact that her daughter is only 17 and pregnant just show's that the saying 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is true.


Someone gets it...:yes:

BobbyFresco
09-01-2008, 02:37 PM
HEY!!!

I thought that was Christian people? Later, QD.

Same difference.:lmfao:

xLSTONEx
09-01-2008, 02:38 PM
I don't know what DUIs have anything to do with family values.

tony
09-01-2008, 02:41 PM
It's pretty simple. Republicans are all about morals and family values and being generally judgemental of others who do not participate in their way of life.

Now I'm willing to bet that to an average republican, a 17 year old child having a child out of wedlock is not in keeping of moral high ground they set for themselves. Def not for someone who is running for a presidential position.

And thats pretty much it, over the past few months the finger has continually been pointed at Obama for his religion, his views on race, his social class and his values. McSame picks someone who is far from a shining light on values and suddenly its off limits? Damn that.

RandomGuy
09-01-2008, 02:42 PM
I don't know anyone who's so much enthusiastic about democrats as they are appalled by republitards. Democrats don't even have to be good to be better than the fantasy world sh*theadedness promoted by republicans. The fact that her daughter is only 17 and pregnant just show's that the saying 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is true.illegals cant vote; therefore your opinion is void


blahahahahahahahahah



but yeah i agree with the illegal, but also am politically apathetic....

The Ninja
09-01-2008, 02:46 PM
illegals cant vote; therefore your opinion is void


blahahahahahahahahah



but yeah i agree with the illegal, but also am politically apathetic....

I agree with you. Whenever I try to get involved I get frustrated, they're all corrupt, in it for themselves or their buddies, or simply don't give a ****. I don't care about politics because if I did I'd drive myself insane.

I find it more an interesting topic to view from an objective point.

man
09-01-2008, 02:54 PM
And thats pretty much it, over the past few months the finger has continually been pointed at Obama for his religion, his views on race, his social class and his values. McSame picks someone who is far from a shining light on values and suddenly its off limits? Damn that.

But this has nothing to do with HER values. You can't control what other people do, even those in your family.

tony
09-01-2008, 02:58 PM
But this has nothing to do with HER values. You can't control what other people do, even those in your family.

Then why hold Obama accountable for his pastor? Of whom he has even less control over.

Vteckidd
09-01-2008, 02:58 PM
Its really not that big of a deal.

Having family values doesnt mean mistake dont happen.

Bush had a DUI, Kennedy has 7 DUIs LOL, i mean there is tons of sh!t out there.

Obama admitted to smoking weed more than once.

Palin has a daughter that got pregnant. So what, shes getting married to the guy that impregnated her, and i think thats a private matter.

Now, at least she didnt LIE about it like Edwards did ;)

Vteckidd
09-01-2008, 03:01 PM
Then why hold Obama accountable for his pastor? Of whom he has even less control over.

Well thats a totally different issues considering

1) It was the source of his power base
2) he was married by the guy
3) his kids were baptized by the guy
4) he had a 30 year relationship with the guy

Being friends with a religous nutcase is different than your daughter getting pregnant too young.

I mean if this was Obamas little girl (if she was 17) it wouldnt bother me at all. Like i said its a family matter.

there is no way you can compare the 2. Its like saying have 30 year ties to a white supremacist is the same as your father having a drinking problem.

come on stretching a bit arent we?

4dmin
09-01-2008, 03:19 PM
lol i'm not surprised - sh!t our president got a DUI in the 70's ... do know know how drunk you have to be to get a DUI in the 70's :lmao:

4dmin
09-01-2008, 03:23 PM
Bush did too.

Right Wing definition of Personal Responsibility:

Teen Not Pregnant: she's taking responsibility for her actions.

Teen Having Baby: she's taking responsibility for her actions.

Man with No DWI: he's taking responsibility for her actions.

Man with DWI: he's taking responsibility for her actions.

The spin machine is awesome!

This is even funnier that the GOP saying Palin has more experience than Obama!!!

funny post from that first link

tony
09-01-2008, 03:26 PM
And the spin continues... no suprises here.

4dmin
09-01-2008, 03:28 PM
The McCain aide insisted a key point to keep in mind is that Bristol decided to keep the baby, a decision “supported by her parents.”

bahhh McCain is a f*cking moron - this is all more the reason why we don't need them back in office. They never practice what they preach. Why on earth would he pick Palin? not looking good.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 06:50 PM
Would you Democrats feel better about it if the kid has an abortion?

Echonova
09-01-2008, 06:52 PM
bahhh McCain is a f*cking moron - this is all more the reason why we don't need them back in office. They never practice what they preach. Why on earth would he pick Palin? not looking good.Why pick Biden? "We need a change"... So he picks the guy that's been in Washington almost longer than anyone else.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 06:53 PM
If Obama wins and gets his tax plan passed, I'm going to move to California where I can pay 63% of my income in taxes. I wanna do my fair share.

OneSlow5pt0
09-01-2008, 06:55 PM
whats the deal,every family has issues...........and to have a leader whos gone through it,i see no problem

GirlieZ
09-01-2008, 07:06 PM
darnit i didnt see you post the 17 yr old prego story...mods feel free to delete my thread on the before mentioned topic

alpine_aw11
09-01-2008, 07:22 PM
Anyone who uses this as a means to criticize McCain's campaign is a MORON. Plain and simple. Typical dirty politics. If you Obama guys are all about change, don't stick to the typical political mudslinging bs. None of us can speak about this issue. You don't know Palins daughter. You don't know the circumstances. Crying about this because you're mad Obama got attacked for his association with his crazy pastor shows you have no character or actual concern for real issues. I'm not saying it was right to criticize Obama on those grounds, but using this as a means to criticize Palin and her family is immature and completely irrelevant to any actual political issues. There are plenty of other ways to criticize her lol.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 07:25 PM
Anyone who uses this as a means to criticize McCain's campaign is a MORON. Plain and simple. Typical dirty politics. If you Obama guys are all about change, don't stick to the typical political mudslinging bs. None of us can speak about this issue. You don't know Palins daughter. You don't know the circumstances. Crying about this because you're mad Obama got attacked for his association with his crazy pastor shows you have no character or actual concern for real issues. I'm not saying it was right to criticize Obama on those grounds, but using this as a means to criticize Palin and her family is immature and completely irrelevant to any actual political issues. There are plenty of other ways to criticize her lol.X2

Two wrongs don't make a right. But it does make you feel better.;)

tony
09-01-2008, 07:36 PM
Wow, this is simply amazing. The very people who have been here criticizing Obama on ish that has no substance suddenly have morales and I have no character.

Boo ****ing hoo. The lady has domestic issues and yes when you're a public official serving the PEOPLE, making legislative decisions that effect them your own house should be clean before you try to clean someone elses. At the least set an example.

Again, nothing has been off limits with Obama. His wife, his mother.. everyone around him has been scrutinized now suddenly its off limits. Honestly, yall can kiss my ass, I'll harp on this till Nov. 4th.

alpine_aw11
09-01-2008, 07:40 PM
Wow, this is simply amazing. The very people who have been here criticizing Obama on ish that has no substance suddenly have morales and I have no character.

Boo ****ing hoo. The lady has domestic issues and yes when you're a public official serving the PEOPLE, making legislative decisions that effect them your own house should be clean before you try to clean someone elses. At the least set an example.

Again, nothing has been off limits with Obama. His wife, his mother.. everyone around him has been scrutinized now suddenly its off limits. Honestly, yall can kiss my ass, I'll harp on this till Nov. 4th.

Using this to criticize her does show a lack of character. Just like the people who criticized Obama for smoking in high school and all that other garbage lack character. Since you guys are all about using real issues as a means of criticism, use it. Not this whiny schoolgirl crap about things that are completely devoid of any actual relevance to the election. What Obama was criticized for didn't lose him any voters, or at least any intelligent ones. Just like this probably wont hurt McCain. If people can't learn to see through the bull**** then they shouldn't be voting at all.

disclaimer: I hate Obama and McCain equally

Echonova
09-01-2008, 07:42 PM
Wow, this is simply amazing. The very people who have been here criticizing Obama on ish that has no substance suddenly have morales and I have no character.

Boo ****ing hoo. The lady has domestic issues and yes when you're a public official serving the PEOPLE, making legislative decisions that effect them your own house should be clean before you try to clean someone elses. At the least set an example.

How's Edwards doing these days?


BTW:You have character, most politicians don't. Politics is the only place where you can lie for living and not go to jail. Which is why everyone has disagreements, because their candidates lies less than that other bastard.;)

tony
09-01-2008, 07:43 PM
Actually Obama's poll numbers dropped numerous times behind erroneous BS.

Okay since we're talking about substance and criticism. Lets talk about her brother in law the state trooper and what most likely was her abuse of power, care to comment or is that too personal as well?

Reaper
09-01-2008, 07:44 PM
Wow, this is simply amazing. The very people who have been here criticizing Obama on ish that has no substance suddenly have morales and I have no character.

Boo ****ing hoo. The lady has domestic issues and yes when you're a public official serving the PEOPLE, making legislative decisions that effect them your own house should be clean before you try to clean someone elses. At the least set an example.

Again, nothing has been off limits with Obama. His wife, his mother.. everyone around him has been scrutinized now suddenly its off limits. Honestly, yall can kiss my ass, I'll harp on this till Nov. 4th.

Obama did the right thing, and it shows a lot of class for saying she should be off limits. He's only doing what he feels should be done for him(not to mention its a smart political move). I don't agree with how people have attacked his family and what not..But for you to "harp on this till Nov. 4th" is pretty immature. Although I don't agree with just about any of your political views, you tend to be pretty fair, and respect other peoples opinions, and I respect that. But, I would expect something like this out of someone a lot less mature. Like ECHO said, 2 wrongs don't make it right. Not that my opionion matters, I'm just a moderate that could really careless about either of the candidates, because Right or Left no one is ever happy nor "right". Oh well.

alpine_aw11
09-01-2008, 07:45 PM
Actually Obama's poll numbers dropped numerous times behind erroneous BS.

Okay since we're talking about substance and criticism. Lets talk about her brother in law the state trooper and what most likely was her abuse of power, care to comment or is that too personal as well?

If she in fact did abuse her power, then hell no it isn't too personal. I haven't looked into the issue so I don't know what all happened with it, but if she did something wrong then use it. That's the kind of thing that should be brought up.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 07:47 PM
Actually Obama's poll numbers dropped numerous times behind erroneous BS.

Okay since we're talking about substance and criticism. Lets talk about her brother in law the state trooper and what most likely was her abuse of power, care to comment or is that too personal as well?No, that's fair game.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 07:48 PM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x249/Echonova1/Obama_hope-nosis.gif

Reaper
09-01-2008, 07:49 PM
Actually Obama's poll numbers dropped numerous times behind erroneous BS.

Okay since we're talking about substance and criticism. Lets talk about her brother in law the state trooper and what most likely was her abuse of power, care to comment or is that too personal as well?


Definitely NOT off limits. That has more to do with her and the gov't system. But her 17year old daughter, that is too personal..

tony
09-01-2008, 07:50 PM
How's Edwards doing these days?


BTW:You have character, most politicians don't. Politics is the only place where you can lie for living and not go to jail. Which is why everyone has disagreements, because their candidates lies less than that other bastard.;)


Don't know.. don't care, he's not campaigning as VP.

I do want to say that, Obama is far from perfect. I have plenty of criticisms of him, but there has been an imbalance here as far as criticisms have gone. Obama chooses not to pounce on Palin's personal life and that is who he is, it pisses me off that he isn't a cut throat type politician like Hillary (she would jump on this in a SECOND) but oh well.

My main thing is, if you criticize Obama on issues with no real merit don't be quick to go back and forth with me when your candidate exposes their self with stuff that carries the same weight. Personally, I could care less about Palin.. she's a fellow Alaskan and I'm happy to see someone from my home state doing well. I just don't need 4 more years of Bush policy of which McCain himself doesn't believe in, he is only doing this to appease the party. She's a part of that initiative.

Reaper
09-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Don't know.. don't care, he's not campaigning as VP.

I do want to say that, Obama is far from perfect. I have plenty of criticisms of him, but there has been an imbalance here as far as criticisms have gone. Obama chooses not to pounce on Palin's personal life and that is who he is, it pisses me off that he isn't a cut throat type politician like Hillary (she would jump on this in a SECOND) but oh well.

My main thing is, if you criticize Obama on issues with no real merit don't be quick to go back and forth with me when your candidate exposes their self with stuff that carries the same weight. Personally, I could care less about Palin.. she's a fellow Alaskan and I'm happy to see someone from my home state doing well. I just don't need 4 more years of Bush policy of which McCain himself doesn't believe in, he is only doing this to appease the party. She's a part of that initiative.

And that's why she isn't a candidate.

tony
09-01-2008, 07:56 PM
If she in fact did abuse her power, then hell no it isn't too personal. I haven't looked into the issue so I don't know what all happened with it, but if she did something wrong then use it. That's the kind of thing that should be brought up.

I went to Alaska last month and it was front page news.. I mean plastered all over the newspaper which is why I was shocked McCain chose her.


Alaska Governor and presumptive Republican vice presidential nominee for the 2008 United States presidential election Sarah Palin is currently, as of August 2008, being investigated by an independent investigator hired by the Alaska Legislature to determine whether she abused her power when she fired Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan in July 2008.Palin denies wrongdoing, and the investigator's report is expected before the November 4, 2008 presidential election.

Palin says that she dismissed Monegan because of performance-related issues. However, Monegan says that his dismissal may have been tied to his reluctance to fire Mike Wooten, an Alaska State Trooper who is also Palin's ex-brother-in-law. Wooten was disciplined in 2006 for making a death threat against Palin's father, though he denied the accusation.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 07:57 PM
Hillary wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. But her attack dogs (Begalla etc) would be on every network, while she sat back and plays innocent. But you're right, he (McCain) is doing this to appease the party (and to steal possible Hillary supporters). McCain was my Senator when I lived in Arizona and I really don't like him. Lesser of two evils in my eyes. If this country was a car, it's heading straight for a brick wall. Either hit it at 85mph or 65mph. End result is the same, how fast you wanna get there?

alpine_aw11
09-01-2008, 07:58 PM
My main thing is, if you criticize Obama on issues with no real merit don't be quick to go back and forth with me when your candidate exposes their self with stuff that carries the same weight. Personally, I could care less about Palin.. she's a fellow Alaskan and I'm happy to see someone from my home state doing well. I just don't need 4 more years of Bush policy of which McCain himself doesn't believe in, he is only doing this to appease the party. She's a part of that initiative.

I agree. Most supporters of McCain don't have the right to say this is unfounded criticism, as the amount of insults they had to pull out of their asses to discredit Obama make using this situation as an argument valid. But that is coming from a politician's terms, not mine. At least Obama stood up and said it's wrong.

Reaper
09-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Hillary wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. But her attack dogs (Begalla etc) would be on every network, while she sat back and plays innocent. But you're right, he (McCain) is doing this to appease the party (and to steal possible Hillary supporters). McCain was my Senator when I lived in Arizona and I really don't like him. Lesser of two evils in my eyes. If this country was a car, it's heading straight for a brick wall. Either hit it at 85mph or 65mph. End result is the same, how fast you wanna get there?

Seems we have the same views

tony
09-01-2008, 07:58 PM
And that's why she isn't a candidate.


She lost because she was cocky and didn't care about Caucus states, Obama only won because he had a 50 state initiative. The smear campaigns were working and honestly had she been more proactive early on her negative campaign would have worked.

If Obama loses its not because he's black, its because he's too nice when other politicians are willing to hit below the belt.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 07:59 PM
Atlas shrugged.


Read it.

Echonova
09-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Seems we have the same viewsMust be because we're good looking.

tony
09-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Hillary wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. But her attack dogs (Begalla etc) would be on every network, while she sat back and plays innocent. But you're right, he (McCain) is doing this to appease the party (and to steal possible Hillary supporters). McCain was my Senator when I lived in Arizona and I really don't like him. Lesser of two evils in my eyes. If this country was a car, it's heading straight for a brick wall. Either hit it at 85mph or 65mph. End result is the same, how fast you wanna get there?

She would slide it in without directly touching on it. Something to the effect of; "Chelsea has always been a responsible child and practiced abstinence from day 1."

Thats if she was struggling in the polls, Clinton knows no gutter too deep and it often works.

Reaper
09-01-2008, 08:03 PM
She lost because she was cocky and didn't care about Caucus states, Obama only won because he had a 50 state initiative. The smear campaigns were working and honestly had she been more proactive early on her negative campaign would have worked.

If Obama loses its not because he's black, its because he's too nice when other politicians are willing to hit below the belt.


She's a flat out evil woman...end of story.

I like Obama a lot as a person and I agree that if he loses it will be because people WILL hit below the belt and he IS too nice...No one votes for the right reasons anymore. It's "who has the prettiest background". I don't "hate" anyone, and I think McCain is the lesser of the evils, I've briefly read though both Obama's and McCains website's and I'm not very impressed with either.

I just pray that after this election someone REAL will come along, but ha but I've got a better shot at f*cking Jessica Barton tonight than that happening..

Reaper
09-01-2008, 08:04 PM
Must be because we're good looking.




Must be

Echonova
09-01-2008, 08:05 PM
Thats if she was struggling in the polls, Clinton knows no gutter too deep and it often works.LOL, agreed.


Am I the only one that thought that when Obamas plane "malfunctioned" and he had to make an emergancy landing that she was behind it? I mean, she used that plane right before he did...

AznTraitor
09-01-2008, 08:14 PM
Here, let me end the argument for everyone.

Politicians Lie. For political gains, for personal gains, for just sh*ts and giggles.


Tony, you are a clear Obama supporter....so no matter what anyone tells you or shows to you, it won't matter. Obama's campaign smears McCain's campaign, and McCain's campaign smears Obama's, no one is innocent, so there is no such thing as someone being "nice" when they are running for president, because they are both competing for the top dog job.

the best way I have seen it put about campaigning is....
"Whoever wins, is just the better hustler, because in the end, they promise you what you want to hear to get your vote, and could give a damn about you for 4 more years until they need you again."

redrumracer
09-01-2008, 08:21 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.
the he portion did, and i think we all saw how that went. to me it wasnt about what he did but more about how he lied about it.

wantboost
09-01-2008, 08:41 PM
Then why hold Obama accountable for his pastor? Of whom he has even less control over.
because Obama chose to go to the church.

your argument holds water almost as well as this \/ \/

http://www.martialartsacademy.org/bait%20tank%20holes.JPG

Alan®
09-01-2008, 08:45 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.
Ok and Obama admittedly did drugs and your point is?

alpine_aw11
09-01-2008, 08:49 PM
Ok and Obama admittedly did drugs and your point is?

What's yours?

Imadaman
09-01-2008, 08:52 PM
isn't the "older guy" a year older?correct me if im wrong.

Alan®
09-01-2008, 09:01 PM
What's yours?
Just that Tony's argument really doesn't have a leg to stand on. He wants to yet again criticize the republican ticket without examining his own democratic ticket.

BTW here's the link to when Obama admits it. You need only watch the first 20 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7QTfns7W2A

Evil Goat
09-01-2008, 09:03 PM
lol, i watched the whole saddleback thing today finally...i must admit i agree with some things that obama says, just like i disagree with some things mccain says....only problem is what i disagree on with obama are biggies...

quickdodge®
09-01-2008, 09:04 PM
Later, QD.

4dmin
09-02-2008, 09:12 AM
Would you Democrats feel better about it if the kid has an abortion?

actually yes b/c obviously they don't need to be reproducing. i love die hard republicans b/c they are such hypocrites lets make a stance on how holy we are and how moral we are yet when sh!t goes wrong we make excuses on how we are weak and our morals don't mean sh!t in reality.

i am not democrat and i'm voting obama on the sheer factor you republicans have ****ed us long enough time to pass the gavel. last democrat we had in office showed america some of the best economic times history, but i'm sure your going to have some excuse on why that isn't true and how bush :blah:

bush is a moron, mccain is no better he didn't even know if he wanted to be republican flip flopping numerous times for his own political advantage - palin has 0% experience running a state w/ less people then Gwinnett County. people keep running their mouths about obamas lack of exp dude graduated from best law school in the country and practiced/taught constitutional law. biden is the best out of all 4.

most republicans are planning on voting republican on principle not on reality. everyone knows we are in the sh!t and republicans have been at the for front of this for the past 8 years.

Ran
09-02-2008, 09:23 AM
Considering how this is trying to be a somewhat serious discussion, shouldn't it be in Wallstreet?

1000cckiller
09-02-2008, 09:41 AM
i dont see how either of the situations at hand effect ones ability to help run a country. why dont we worry about important things like taxes or homeland security..not 20 year old dui convictions and a 17 year old getting pregnant....at least she waited till 17. my first pregnancy scare was at 15that just made you sound like a b*tch

mocha latte cupcake
09-02-2008, 09:42 AM
DWI? :thinking:

Drunk within Igloo? i didn't know that was a crime in alaska.... :thinking:

1000cckiller
09-02-2008, 09:43 AM
actually yes b/c obviously they don't need to be reproducing. i love die hard republicans b/c they are such hypocrites lets make a stance on how holy we are and how moral we are yet when sh!t goes wrong we make excuses on how we are weak and our morals don't mean sh!t in reality.

i am not democrat and i'm voting obama on the sheer factor you republicans have ****ed us long enough time to pass the gavel. last democrat we had in office showed america some of the best economic times history, but i'm sure your going to have some excuse on why that isn't true and how bush :blah:

bush is a moron, mccain is no better he didn't even know if he wanted to be republican flip flopping numerous times for his own political advantage - palin has 0% experience running a state w/ less people then Gwinnett County. people keep running their mouths about obamas lack of exp dude graduated from best law school in the country and practiced/taught constitutional law. biden is the best out of all 4.

most republicans are planning on voting republican on principle not on reality. everyone knows we are in the sh!t and republicans have been at the for front of this for the past 8 years.QTF

alpine_aw11
09-02-2008, 09:43 AM
And lol at people trying to use her husband getting a DUI 20 years ago. Retards.

Ran
09-02-2008, 09:46 AM
DWI? :thinking:Driving While Intoxicated you silly Whasian. :lmfao:

Echonova
09-02-2008, 09:47 AM
LOUD NOISES!!!!!!

Leisa
09-02-2008, 09:53 AM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.

20 years ago.. Come on people!

And her daughter is getting married to the father of the baby.. keep in mind Obamas mother was only 18 when she had him.

4dmin
09-02-2008, 10:03 AM
20 years ago.. Come on people!

And her daughter is getting married to the father of the baby.. keep in mind Obamas mother was only 18 when she had him.

we aren't electing obamas mother we are electing palin - and at the time obama was born getting preggers at 18 was fine. people graduated HS or not, got married and started families

doesn't matter if they marry anyway girl is 17 - where were her parents? sorry but that isn't acceptable in most homes here in the us. if she can't handle her family how can she manage the USA?

Alan®
09-02-2008, 12:07 PM
Admin I'm sorry but 20 months as governor is still more experience than Obama has in any form of leadership. Yes he went to one of the best schools in the country if not the world and may have tought a few classes here but, he has still yet to convince me he is ready for the job. Despite all his credentials if he were to go and apply for ownership of a Dairy Queen franchise he would have a slim and none chance of getting it because he has no business experience and again has never really led anything.

As for Palin, an 80% approval rating has to count for something. Yea her daughter is pregnant. But like I have said before and like I have always been told, one of the keys to being successful is being able to leave your personal problems at home and being able to come in and do the job you were asked to do. And so far, she has done that. I could really care less that her husband has a DUI from 20 years ago. Like I said earlier if you really want to start nit picking on someting like that, take a look at your own canidate who on national television admitted doing drugs and drank. The only difference between him and her wife is that Obama never got caught and charged. I find it quite humorous that the Dems and the media siding with the dems are honestly using this as an argument. The Obama-Biden ticket is the experience opposite of the McCain-Palin ticket. And frankly if that doesn't strike anybody as odd then I don't know what will.

Obama is a good guy but on the big stuff I disagree with him having read a lot of his stuff. That's just a fact of life. Some people agree with him some don't. It does have to be said though that Obama seems to be generally a good guy.

Brett
09-02-2008, 12:13 PM
we aren't electing obamas mother we are electing palin - and at the time obama was born getting preggers at 18 was fine. people graduated HS or not, got married and started families

doesn't matter if they marry anyway girl is 17 - where were her parents? sorry but that isn't acceptable in most homes here in the us. if she can't handle her family how can she manage the USA?

Paul you will see one day when you have kids that because of a poor choice your child makes does not reflect soley on the parent or thier skills. That is a slap in the face to anyone who is a parent to even say that. A parent can bust thier a$$ to instill values and be there for thier child, But you cant be there 24/7 and when you are not able to watch them when they are out, you can ONLY PRAY and HOPE they go by what you have tried for so long to teach them. So are you saying any mistake you made in life makes your mom a bad parent? Your not saying that.... Because anything you did as a kid does not reflect on her only, Just like at 17 you were bangin chicks, does that make her bad or any less of a parent with good parent skills?

You all are using this as such total f*cking BS!! You cant judge soley a person on thier ability by what mistake thier child might make, We were all 17 once and you know damn well many of us were doing the same thing her daughter was doing, She just happened to be unlucky and get pregnant. So unless you are all saying you have ****ty parents because you made mistakes, End that arguement.

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 12:26 PM
Paul you will see one day when you have kids that because of a poor choice your child makes does not reflect soley on the parent or thier skills. That is a slap in the face to anyone who is a parent to even say that. A parent can bust thier a$$ to instill values and be there for thier child, But you cant be there 24/7 and when you are not able to watch them when they are out, you can ONLY PRAY and HOPE they go by what you have tried for so long to teach them. So are you saying any mistake you made in life makes your mom a bad parent? Your not saying that.... Because anything you did as a kid does not reflect on her only, Just like at 17 you were bangin chicks, does that make her bad or any less of a parent with good parent skills?

You all are using this as such total f*cking BS!! You cant judge soley a person on thier ability by what mistake thier child might make, We were all 17 once and you know damn well many of us were doing the same thing her daughter was doing, She just happened to be unlucky and get pregnant. So unless you are all saying you have ****ty parents because you made mistakes, End that arguement.



I'M SORRY BUT THIS IS TOTAL BS. IN MOST HOUSEHOLDS, INCLUDING MY OWN WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, PREGNANCY AT 17 WAS AN UNTHINKABLE.
THE FACT THAT PPL FIND THIS ACCEPTABLE OR JUSTIFIABLE JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW MUCH SOCIETY AND OUR STANDARDS HAVE DECLINED.

SHIIT, IF I HAD GOTTEN SOMEONE PREG AT 17, I WOULD HAVE HAD MY ASS KICKED TO HELL AND BACK. WHEN I WAS 17, I WAS TOO BUSY WORRYING ABOUT COLLEGE AND SPORTS AND NOT OUT RUNNING WILD AND PARTYING N SHIIT. ANY PARENT THAT TRULY GIVES A SHIIT ABOUT THEIR CHILD'S FUTURE WOULD BE INVOLVED IN EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR CHILD'S LIFE TO ENSURE SUCCESS. MINE WERE. I HAD PLENTY OF FRIENDS WHO'S PARENTS WERE AS WELL...AND THEN THERE WERE THE PARENTS THAT GAVE THEIR KIDS ALL THE FREEDOM IN THE WORLD...AND THOSE WERE THE PARENTS WHO WERE BURYING THEIR KIDS BECAUSE OF A DRUNK DRIVING ACCIDENT OR AN OVERDOSE OR HELPING THEM RAISE KIDS THAT WERE BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK...

Ran
09-02-2008, 12:28 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Nismosis/capslocklol.jpgInteresting

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Interesting


I'M AT WORK, HATER...LOL

Ran
09-02-2008, 12:31 PM
I'M AT WORK, HATER...LOLSo am I, but at least my work computer still has a caps lock button. :lmao:

Brett
09-02-2008, 12:31 PM
I'M SORRY BUT THIS IS TOTAL BS. IN MOST HOUSEHOLDS, INCLUDING MY OWN WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, PREGNANCY AT 17 WAS AN UNTHINKABLE.
THE FACT THAT PPL FIND THIS ACCEPTABLE OR JUSTIFIABLE JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW MUCH SOCIETY AND OUR STANDARDS HAVE DECLINED.

SHIIT, IF I HAD GOTTEN SOMEONE PREG AT 17, I WOULD HAVE HAD MY ASS KICKED TO HELL AND BACK. WHEN I WAS 17, I WAS TOO BUSY WORRYING ABOUT COLLEGE AND SPORTS AND NOT OUT RUNNING WILD AND PARTYING N SHIIT. ANY PARENT THAT TRULY GIVES A SHIIT ABOUT THEIR CHILD'S FUTURE WOULD BE INVOLVED IN EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR CHILD'S LIFE TO ENSURE SUCCESS. MINE WERE. I HAD PLENTY OF FRIENDS WHO'S PARENTS WERE AS WELL...AND THEN THERE WERE THE PARENTS THAT GAVE THEIR KIDS ALL THE FREEDOM IN THE WORLD...AND THOSE WERE THE PARENTS WHO WERE BURYING THEIR KIDS BECAUSE OF A DRUNK DRIVING ACCIDENT OR AN OVERDOSE OR HELPING THEM RAISE KIDS THAT WERE BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK...

Dont get me wrong, I dont condone it and say its acceptable. Not in ANY way. BUt what I saying is saying she or anyone is a bad mother because of it is not right. I dont care of she is Democrat or Republican, id still say its wrong to say someone is a bad parent for that.

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 12:40 PM
Dont get me wrong, I dont condone it and say its acceptable. Not in ANY way. BUt what I saying is saying she or anyone is a bad mother because of it is not right. I dont care of she is Democrat or Republican, id still say its wrong to say someone is a bad parent for that.



I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM BUT AT THE SAME TIME A CHILD IS A PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY AND AS SUCH TO KNOW WHAT YOUR CHILD IS DOING, YOU KNOW? I MEAN I CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHER PPL, BUT I LEARNED FROM EARLY ON THAT THE ACTIONS THAT I MAKE AFFECT AND REFLECT ON OTHER PEOPLE.

ALSO, I WASN'T MAKING A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU BRETT, SO PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT THAT WAY...

Brett
09-02-2008, 12:45 PM
Oh I know you werent, I just know we as parents about kill ourselves trying to make sure our kids do the right thing, and we can tell them right from wrong till we are blue in the face, doesnt always mean it will work in our favor 100% of the time, nah mean?

Reaper
09-02-2008, 12:48 PM
I can't believe all of you are still B*tching about this. Grow the f*ck up and let it go. Your moral compasses are so f*cked up I'm surprised you can make it to your car after work.

ALL OF YOU are so F*CKING stupid! Listen to yourselves! You sit there and say "I'm not a democrat, but I'm voting for Obama cuz BUSH f*cked Us" blah blah F*CKING BLAH! Seriously, get over yourself and quit blaming EVERYTHING on ONE man. Yes he's the "leader" of the country. HE REPRESENTS this country. BUT the way our country works, you have a system in which a majority of ELECTED men/woman must approve of the Leader's decisions. So CLEARLY its not JUST him.

As far as this Sarah Palin BS....the family of a Politician is off limits. Period. That has NOTHING to do with how they are as a leader.

ALSO, you stupid f*cks who think that Obama is our countries savior and hate Republicans because they are hypocrites...not ALL republicans are religious. I'm not a republican I'm moderate and I AM religious. I think that those who are hypocrites should be reprimanded, but as far as parenting...sh*t happens. You can't be with your child every 5 minutes, and not matter WHAT children are defiant till the end in one way or the other ESPECIALLY at that girls age.


Let it go, its NOT that big of a F*cking deal. I really liked how classy Obama was to call off the dogs saying that she has nothing to do w/the campaign and to let it go. That was a good thing he did, one of many...But he NOR McCain are going to save this country. Its up to the people. Get over yourselves and quit b*tching. Grow up. YOUR DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE EVEN SAID "CHILDREN ARE OFF LIMITS". So STFU, /thread

Brett
09-02-2008, 12:51 PM
you can't be with your child every 5 minutes, and not matter WHAT children are defiant till the end in one way or the other ESPECIALLY at that girls age.


Let it go, its NOT that big of a F*cking deal.was to call off the dogs saying that she has nothing to do w/the campaign and to let it go. That was a good thing he did

:goodjob:

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 12:52 PM
HOWEVER, IT WAS OK FOR PPL TO GO AFTER OBAMA'S WIFE HUH?

OK FOR THEM TO GO AFTER HIS HALF BROTHER, RIGHT?


YEA ,SO WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN AND AT WHAT POINT?


OBAMA IS BEING A CLASS ACT AND NOT USING PALIN'S DAUGHTER AS AMMUNITION BUT IT WOULD NOT BE WRONG IF HE DID...THIS RACE HASN'T BEEN A FAIR FIGHT NOR SHOULD IT BE. ALL GLOVES SHOULD BE OFF.

Brett
09-02-2008, 12:54 PM
I dont think Obama's family should be on the table either. People need to stick to facts about what each one stands for and let THAT speak for itself. Nothing else matters when it comes to running this country.

Reaper
09-02-2008, 12:55 PM
HOWEVER, IT WAS OK FOR PPL TO GO AFTER OBAMA'S WIFE HUH?

OK FOR THEM TO GO AFTER HIS HALF BROTHER, RIGHT?


YEA ,SO WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN AND AT WHAT POINT?


OBAMA IS BEING A CLASS ACT AND NOT USING PALIN'S DAUGHTER AS AMMUNITION BUT IT WOULD NOT BE WRONG IF HE DID...THIS RACE HASN'T BEEN A FAIR FIGHT NOR SHOULD IT BE. ALL GLOVES SHOULD BE OFF.

He's ALWAYS been a class act, and as Tony said last night that could be what kills him in the end.

I don't agree that his wife was attacked at all. But 2 wrongs don't make it right. Obama's being the better person in all of this....why can't everyone else? If the Democrats or "those who want Obama to win" want him to win so bad and believe in him, then follow his example...

Reaper
09-02-2008, 12:59 PM
I dont think Obama's family should be on the table either. People need to stick to facts about what each one stands for and let THAT speak for itself. Nothing else matters when it comes to running this country.

I agree with you 100%.. its about who's running, NOT there family.The Obama NOR McCain parties families should be involved what so ever.


I'm starting to relate democrats to UF(florida) fans. Arrogant, always right, cocky as hell, annoying as f*ck. And the more I listen to them, the more I can't stand them. Them being there views...My best friend is a democrat and is so PRO-OBAMA is not funny..I cannot f*cking wait till this election is over.

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:05 PM
Yeah nothing on this site stirs up more emotion and debates/arguements than election time

Reaper
09-02-2008, 01:09 PM
Yeah nothing on this site stirs up more emotion and debates/arguements than election time

my friend and his gf have NEVER fought in the 3 years they have been together and engaged this past year....Now they argue all the time about this sh*t....lol

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:30 PM
No other topic brings the passion each person believes in more than politics. We each believe what we do and will defend it till the death, Doesnt make either side wrong, just means we are passionate about what we believe.

4dmin
09-02-2008, 01:32 PM
Admin I'm sorry but 20 months as governor is still more experience than Obama has in any form of leadership. Yes he went to one of the best schools in the country if not the world and may have tought a few classes here but, he has still yet to convince me he is ready for the job. Despite all his credentials if he were to go and apply for ownership of a Dairy Queen franchise he would have a slim and none chance of getting it because he has no business experience and again has never really led anything.

As for Palin, an 80% approval rating has to count for something. Yea her daughter is pregnant. But like I have said before and like I have always been told, one of the keys to being successful is being able to leave your personal problems at home and being able to come in and do the job you were asked to do. And so far, she has done that. I could really care less that her husband has a DUI from 20 years ago. Like I said earlier if you really want to start nit picking on someting like that, take a look at your own canidate who on national television admitted doing drugs and drank. The only difference between him and her wife is that Obama never got caught and charged. I find it quite humorous that the Dems and the media siding with the dems are honestly using this as an argument. The Obama-Biden ticket is the experience opposite of the McCain-Palin ticket. And frankly if that doesn't strike anybody as odd then I don't know what will.

Obama is a good guy but on the big stuff I disagree with him having read a lot of his stuff. That's just a fact of life. Some people agree with him some don't. It does have to be said though that Obama seems to be generally a good guy.

dude your parents pay your bills i discredit everything you say b/c your just dumb. trying to say this house wife w/ 20 months experience and a journalism degree has more then a guy who graduated from harvard law, practiced/taught constitutional law, and been in the senate since 04' :thinking: (i know 4 years is difficult to calculated into months)

your not too bright are you. i'm sure you one of those people who would argue the color of the sky.



Paul you will see one day when you have kids that because of a poor choice your child makes does not reflect soley on the parent or thier skills. That is a slap in the face to anyone who is a parent to even say that. A parent can bust thier a$$ to instill values and be there for thier child, But you cant be there 24/7 and when you are not able to watch them when they are out, you can ONLY PRAY and HOPE they go by what you have tried for so long to teach them. So are you saying any mistake you made in life makes your mom a bad parent? Your not saying that.... Because anything you did as a kid does not reflect on her only, Just like at 17 you were bangin chicks, does that make her bad or any less of a parent with good parent skills?

You all are using this as such total f*cking BS!! You cant judge soley a person on thier ability by what mistake thier child might make, We were all 17 once and you know damn well many of us were doing the same thing her daughter was doing, She just happened to be unlucky and get pregnant. So unless you are all saying you have ****ty parents because you made mistakes, End that arguement.

sorry dude weak ass argument - getting preggers at 17 is totally parents lack of parenting. this is the problem w/ people today trying to blame everyone else but themselves. sorry but my daughter/son will not be coming home at 17 telling me their knocked up.

this is hilarious b/c RedGT and others were running their mouths about Palin was governor and preggers... well guess what while she was working on birthing her down syndrome baby her daughter was working on getting knocked up. i asked previously who will be taking care of the kids? um i will ask again since obviously Palin nor her husband are fit enough parents to watch their children let alone run our fine country.

sorry but palin sounds like she has some backwater redneck family morals. i'm sure her approval rating in GA will do fine :lmfao:

Reaper
09-02-2008, 01:33 PM
No other topic brings the passion each person believes in more than politics. We each believe what we do and will defend it till the death, Doesnt make either side wrong, just means we are passionate about what we believe.

At least someone gets it:goodjob:

4dmin
09-02-2008, 01:34 PM
I SEE YOU LURKING JAIMECBR900 I KNOW YOUR REPUBLICAN... WOULD YOU MIND IF YOUR DAUGHTER CAME HOME PREGGERS AT 17?

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:34 PM
sorry dude weak ass argument - getting preggers at 17 is totally parents lack of parenting. this is the problem w/ people today trying to blame everyone else but themselves. sorry but my daughter/son will not be coming home at 17 telling me their knocked up.



Paul, You know me brotha, You know I dont condone a girl at 17yo being pregnant nor would I put up with Brittanee being that way, What I am saying is YES it is a parents job to instill the correct morals and values, and we are liable for what they do, BUT we cant be at thier side 24/7 and if they f*ck up you cant right away say a parent is a bad mom or dad.

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:35 PM
I SEE YOU LURKING JAIMECBR900 I KNOW YOUR REPUBLICAN... WOULD YOU MIND IF YOUR DAUGHTER CAME HOME PREGGERS AT 17?

if he is in here he is doing a reply, and YOU KNOW it will be a book. so run down the street, get some lunch and maybe he will be done by the time we get back :D

Crazy Asian
09-02-2008, 01:36 PM
ugh Palin....Im even more nervous about her. Seriously Alaska? Why?

bigdare23
09-02-2008, 01:36 PM
http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192191

4dmin
09-02-2008, 01:38 PM
Paul, You know me brotha, You know I dont condone a girl at 17yo being pregnant nor would I put up with Brittanee being that way, What I am saying is YES it is a parents job to instill the correct morals and values, and we are liable for what they do, BUT we cant be at thier side 24/7 and if they f*ck up you cant right away say a parent is a bad mom or dad.

problem w/ republicans on this is they will make excuses - you can't honestly think a woman who is too consumed w/ her own life not to be around for her children can run our gov't... we are talking 300+ million people not 5500 people from the backwater town of Wasilla, AL. this is like putting Barney Fife in charge as president :lmfao:

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=98354&rendTypeId=4

wantboost
09-02-2008, 01:40 PM
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=98354&rendTypeId=4
^still would have been better than bush LOLOL

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:41 PM
problem w/ republicans on this is they will make excuses - you can't honestly think a woman who is too consumed w/ her own life not to be around for her children can run our gov't... we are talking 300+ million people not 5500 people from the backwater town of Wasilla, AL. this is like putting Barney Fife in charge as president :lmfao:

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=98354&rendTypeId=4

Kind of like how Democrats made excuses for Bill Clinton when he admitted drug use in his younger years, or was getting head from his intern, no different

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:42 PM
... oh and Jamie has been typing his reply it shows for a little bit now, so be ready Paul!! :D

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:46 PM
Damn he has been typing it says since 2:31, Damn this is gonna be a long one!! :lmfao:

JITB
09-02-2008, 01:51 PM
Kind of like how Democrats made excuses for Bill Clinton when he admitted drug use in his younger years, or was getting head from his intern, no different


if ur playin on a team with people, and one of your teamates get in trouble they say they didnt do it.. you believe them and you stick to their side until otherwise. I mean clinton was impeached... he got punished..regardless of what excuses they made up.


I keep hearing this at the RNC

"this is the type of thing thats happening in america"

but i also heard its not a good look by the standards of most republicans, whoare saying in politics nothing is of limits, when ur runnin for VP. Much like they kept chanting when they were ragging on his family and wife. So it works both ways, alot of them were upset that it didnt come out at the time instead of being forced out by rumors.

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:54 PM
I dont support personal family being brought into the debates if its Obamas or McCains, etc.... Both parties should stick to the facts of what they can offer to do best for this country. Nothing else should matter, nah mean?

4dmin
09-02-2008, 01:55 PM
Kind of like how Democrats made excuses for Bill Clinton when he admitted drug use in his younger years, or was getting head from his intern, no different

well the pot isn't even worth mentioning... sh!t bush got DUI.

but BS w/ intern is totally unfitting for a president. come'on ... the president/vp are supposed to be seen as a heros not in the same light as daytime soap stars

4dmin
09-02-2008, 01:56 PM
Damn he has been typing it says since 2:31, Damn this is gonna be a long one!! :lmfao:

dayum i shouldn't of called out jaime server gonna crash once he post that novel he is working on :lmfao:

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:59 PM
well the pot isn't even worth mentioning... sh!t bush got DUI.

but BS w/ intern is totally unfitting for a president. come'on ... the president/vp are supposed to be seen as a heros not in the same light as daytime soap stars

I agree, Clinton, McCain, Obama, None of them should be caught up in that kind of stuff, They are supposed to be looked at at as having better morals and values

Brett
09-02-2008, 01:59 PM
dayum i shouldn't of called out jaime server gonna crash once he post that novel he is working on :lmfao:

Damn he is still typing it shows.... Ohhhhhh you done did it now Paul!! IA will be down for weeks!! :lmfao:

4dmin
09-02-2008, 02:00 PM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (9 members and 1 guests)
admin, Brett, Leisa, JITB, spyder91290, bafbrian, Crazy Asian, Reaper, Jaimecbr900

everyone get your last word in jaime still typing... server will crash once he is done :lmao:

Jaimecbr900
09-02-2008, 02:03 PM
Tony, I'm surprised you're biting into this whole "her daughter is pregnant, so that means she can't be the VP" BS. Let's look at things logically.

1. Her DAUGHTER is NOT on the ballot. Why does the Democratic party place so much emphasis on that? Because they have nothing else. Plain and simple. If we wanted to place emphasis on the ROOTS of a candidate, let's see:

A. Obama's father abandoned him at 2 and divorced his mother only to basically never see him or his 6 or 7 siblings again. Is that a reflection of Obama or HIS FATHER? Is that going to play towards his "family values" coming from a broken home background?
B. OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED to using drugs. Yes, DRUGS with an "S". He admitted to using Marijuana AND Cocaine AND Alcohol while in HS. Does that reflect on his views of illegal drugs, policing, preventing, using, or anything that has to do with drugs? Unlike someone's HUSBAND that may have gotten a DUI 20 years ago:rolleyes: , this is something OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED TO DOING. Why is him using drugs, even recreationally, "OK" to Obama supporters, yet those same supporters are chastasing Palin for her HUSBAND'S 20 yr old mistake???? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes: Hello Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:
C. Obama was an unknown just 4 short years ago. Suddenly, and because he's black (yep, I said it), he's the new savoir and messiah??? Okie, dokie. He's been a State representative longer than he ever was a Senator. And if you ever notice that's where most of his "accomplishments" that everyone keeps using as part of his resume came from. He's NEVER been any higher than a Senator, and he's only been that for 4 yrs. What big corporation has he successfully run? What pull does he really have when it comes to foreign policy? How exactly does he plan on funding all those "changes"? ;)
D. Speaking of the platform and battle cry of "change".......how are those "changes" going to be paid for? Think about that.

I have somewhere to go, but I'll continue when I come back......

Brett
09-02-2008, 02:07 PM
Tony, I'm surprised you're biting into this whole "her daughter is pregnant, so that means she can't be the VP" BS. Let's look at things logically.

1. Her DAUGHTER is NOT on the ballot. Why does the Democratic party place so much emphasis on that? Because they have nothing else. Plain and simple. If we wanted to place emphasis on the ROOTS of a candidate, let's see:

A. Obama's father abandoned him at 2 and divorced his mother only to basically never see him or his 6 or 7 siblings again. Is that a reflection of Obama or HIS FATHER? Is that going to play towards his "family values" coming from a broken home background?
B. OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED to using drugs. Yes, DRUGS with an "S". He admitted to using Marijuana AND Cocaine AND Alcohol while in HS. Does that reflect on his views of illegal drugs, policing, preventing, using, or anything that has to do with drugs? Unlike someone's HUSBAND that may have gotten a DUI 20 years ago:rolleyes: , this is something OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED TO DOING. Why is him using drugs, even recreationally, "OK" to Obama supporters, yet those same supporters are chastasing Palin for her HUSBAND'S 20 yr old mistake???? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes: Hello Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:
C. Obama was an unknown just 4 short years ago. Suddenly, and because he's black (yep, I said it), he's the new savoir and messiah??? Okie, dokie. He's been a State representative longer than he ever was a Senator. And if you ever notice that's where most of his "accomplishments" that everyone keeps using as part of his resume came from. He's NEVER been any higher than a Senator, and he's only been that for 4 yrs. What big corporation has he successfully run? What pull does he really have when it comes to foreign policy? How exactly does he plan on funding all those "changes"? ;)
D. Speaking of the platform and battle cry of "change".......how are those "changes" going to be paid for? Think about that.

I have somewhere to go, but I'll continue when I come back......

..... and this is why I was waiting, man speaks truth!! Now lets see what the Democrat replies will be :D

JITB
09-02-2008, 02:12 PM
Tony, I'm surprised you're biting into this whole "her daughter is pregnant, so that means she can't be the VP" BS. Let's look at things logically.

1. Her DAUGHTER is NOT on the ballot. Why does the Democratic party place so much emphasis on that? Because they have nothing else. Plain and simple. If we wanted to place emphasis on the ROOTS of a candidate, let's see:

A. Obama's father abandoned him at 2 and divorced his mother only to basically never see him or his 6 or 7 siblings again. Is that a reflection of Obama or HIS FATHER? Is that going to play towards his "family values" coming from a broken home background?
B. OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED to using drugs. Yes, DRUGS with an "S". He admitted to using Marijuana AND Cocaine AND Alcohol while in HS. Does that reflect on his views of illegal drugs, policing, preventing, using, or anything that has to do with drugs? Unlike someone's HUSBAND that may have gotten a DUI 20 years ago:rolleyes: , this is something OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED TO DOING. Why is him using drugs, even recreationally, "OK" to Obama supporters, yet those same supporters are chastasing Palin for her HUSBAND'S 20 yr old mistake???? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes: Hello Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:
C. Obama was an unknown just 4 short years ago. Suddenly, and because he's black (yep, I said it), he's the new savoir and messiah??? Okie, dokie. He's been a State representative longer than he ever was a Senator. And if you ever notice that's where most of his "accomplishments" that everyone keeps using as part of his resume came from. He's NEVER been any higher than a Senator, and he's only been that for 4 yrs. What big corporation has he successfully run? What pull does he really have when it comes to foreign policy? How exactly does he plan on funding all those "changes"? ;)
D. Speaking of the platform and battle cry of "change".......how are those "changes" going to be paid for? Think about that.

I have somewhere to go, but I'll continue when I come back......

for 1 thing the Democrats havent even made an issue out of it at all...really. There has been 1 statement about it form the one person that it matters.. and it was simply.. "its off limits"

theres plenty of foreign policy obama speaks about....u can read if ur interested
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

Is McCains foreign policy is any different from bush's, which has proven to be a failure.

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 02:23 PM
Tony, I'm surprised you're biting into this whole "her daughter is pregnant, so that means she can't be the VP" BS. Let's look at things logically.

1. Her DAUGHTER is NOT on the ballot. Why does the Democratic party place so much emphasis on that? Because they have nothing else. Plain and simple. If we wanted to place emphasis on the ROOTS of a candidate, let's see:

A. Obama's father abandoned him at 2 and divorced his mother only to basically never see him or his 6 or 7 siblings again. Is that a reflection of Obama or HIS FATHER? Is that going to play towards his "family values" coming from a broken home background?
B. OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED to using drugs. Yes, DRUGS with an "S". He admitted to using Marijuana AND Cocaine AND Alcohol while in HS. Does that reflect on his views of illegal drugs, policing, preventing, using, or anything that has to do with drugs? Unlike someone's HUSBAND that may have gotten a DUI 20 years ago:rolleyes: , this is something OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED TO DOING. Why is him using drugs, even recreationally, "OK" to Obama supporters, yet those same supporters are chastasing Palin for her HUSBAND'S 20 yr old mistake???? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes: Hello Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:
C. Obama was an unknown just 4 short years ago. Suddenly, and because he's black (yep, I said it), he's the new savoir and messiah??? Okie, dokie. He's been a State representative longer than he ever was a Senator. And if you ever notice that's where most of his "accomplishments" that everyone keeps using as part of his resume came from. He's NEVER been any higher than a Senator, and he's only been that for 4 yrs. What big corporation has he successfully run? What pull does he really have when it comes to foreign policy? How exactly does he plan on funding all those "changes"? ;)
D. Speaking of the platform and battle cry of "change".......how are those "changes" going to be paid for? Think about that.

I have somewhere to go, but I'll continue when I come back......



First off let's keep this civil and with that being said.....


1. Michelle Obama isn't on the ballot either but you Republicans jumped on comments she made. Repeatedly. If she was fair game then so is Palin's child. A child having a child.

A. Obama's father leaving his family does not reflect on Senator Obama's OWN family values. Also the fact that he is married to, has kids with and only with his wife, and has gotten as far as he has coming from a broken household shows his true character and how much of a family man he really is. Mccain cheated on his wife, left her for his mistress etc etc. Palin has a pregnant child. Family values what?

B. I agree that Palin's husband's actions from 20 years ago have no bearing on the now the same way Obama's past drug use, which Republicans jumped on as well, plays an insignificant role on the present.

C. Can anyone honestly say that they knew who Palin was before she was announced as Mccain's running mate? What significant role has she played in any position she's held? What corporations has she run? Does she know how many homes she owns, unlike Mccain? Can she effectively hold a position that would require much of her time when she's about to be a grandmother and also has a mentally handicapped child of her own? Is she ready to lead a nation of millions should anything happen to Mccain, when she hasn't had any responsibility that is comparable?

4dmin
09-02-2008, 02:24 PM
Tony, I'm surprised you're biting into this whole "her daughter is pregnant, so that means she can't be the VP" BS. Let's look at things logically.

1. Her DAUGHTER is NOT on the ballot. Why does the Democratic party place so much emphasis on that? Because they have nothing else. Plain and simple. If we wanted to place emphasis on the ROOTS of a candidate, let's see:

A. Obama's father abandoned him at 2 and divorced his mother only to basically never see him or his 6 or 7 siblings again. Is that a reflection of Obama or HIS FATHER? Is that going to play towards his "family values" coming from a broken home background?
B. OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED to using drugs. Yes, DRUGS with an "S". He admitted to using Marijuana AND Cocaine AND Alcohol while in HS. Does that reflect on his views of illegal drugs, policing, preventing, using, or anything that has to do with drugs? Unlike someone's HUSBAND that may have gotten a DUI 20 years ago:rolleyes: , this is something OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED TO DOING. Why is him using drugs, even recreationally, "OK" to Obama supporters, yet those same supporters are chastasing Palin for her HUSBAND'S 20 yr old mistake???? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes: Hello Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:
C. Obama was an unknown just 4 short years ago. Suddenly, and because he's black (yep, I said it), he's the new savoir and messiah??? Okie, dokie. He's been a State representative longer than he ever was a Senator. And if you ever notice that's where most of his "accomplishments" that everyone keeps using as part of his resume came from. He's NEVER been any higher than a Senator, and he's only been that for 4 yrs. What big corporation has he successfully run? What pull does he really have when it comes to foreign policy? How exactly does he plan on funding all those "changes"? ;)
D. Speaking of the platform and battle cry of "change".......how are those "changes" going to be paid for? Think about that.

I have somewhere to go, but I'll continue when I come back......

i don't think anyone is questioning the daughters judgment but the parents... your trying to tell me you would be OK if your daughter was preggers? there is a reason she is - lack of parenting/monitoring. unfortunately this may be common in a lot of households but it is not acceptable by any means. her parents obviously were too consumed w/ their lives to watch their current children.

a) again you are twisting position... issue w/ underage pregnancy is parents not child. you can't expect to hold child accountable for actions.

b) so what if he used drugs in HS atleast he is telling the truth; unfortunately not all of them have to take polygraph i'm sure we would of got way better skeletons then what has been currently released.

c) i already stated is resume practicing/teaching constitutional law and holding law degree from the top school in the us is quite an achievement... if we want to talk accomplishments Bush buried multiple companies before becoming president; yet you voted for him 2x. so your going to have to come up w/ another angle. http://alaric3rh.home.sprynet.com/science/bceo.html

foriegn policy - you have to be kidding the obama world tour yeilded more frenzy then bushes foriegn policy for the past 8 years. people outside the US can't stand Bush.

funding will have to come from taxes it is obvious and has already been called to attention you make 250k+ expect to payout to help out our current situation. sorry it is just the breaks.

d) ^ (c)...

i love jaime i can always count on him every 4 years to be ready to roll :cheers:

Brett
09-02-2008, 02:28 PM
Yeah he always keeps it real

4dmin
09-02-2008, 02:40 PM
lol i couldn't help myself :lmfao:

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 02:45 PM
Bhahahahaha....

tony
09-02-2008, 02:48 PM
Tony, I'm surprised you're biting into this whole "her daughter is pregnant, so that means she can't be the VP" BS. Let's look at things logically.

1. Her DAUGHTER is NOT on the ballot. Why does the Democratic party place so much emphasis on that? Because they have nothing else. Plain and simple. If we wanted to place emphasis on the ROOTS of a candidate, let's see:

A. Obama's father abandoned him at 2 and divorced his mother only to basically never see him or his 6 or 7 siblings again. Is that a reflection of Obama or HIS FATHER? Is that going to play towards his "family values" coming from a broken home background?
B. OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED to using drugs. Yes, DRUGS with an "S". He admitted to using Marijuana AND Cocaine AND Alcohol while in HS. Does that reflect on his views of illegal drugs, policing, preventing, using, or anything that has to do with drugs? Unlike someone's HUSBAND that may have gotten a DUI 20 years ago:rolleyes: , this is something OBAMA HIMSELF ADMITTED TO DOING. Why is him using drugs, even recreationally, "OK" to Obama supporters, yet those same supporters are chastasing Palin for her HUSBAND'S 20 yr old mistake???? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes: Hello Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:
C. Obama was an unknown just 4 short years ago. Suddenly, and because he's black (yep, I said it), he's the new savoir and messiah??? Okie, dokie. He's been a State representative longer than he ever was a Senator. And if you ever notice that's where most of his "accomplishments" that everyone keeps using as part of his resume came from. He's NEVER been any higher than a Senator, and he's only been that for 4 yrs. What big corporation has he successfully run? What pull does he really have when it comes to foreign policy? How exactly does he plan on funding all those "changes"? ;)
D. Speaking of the platform and battle cry of "change".......how are those "changes" going to be paid for? Think about that.

I have somewhere to go, but I'll continue when I come back......

Okay, theres a few parts as to why I take the position I take.

1. Admittedly, this is personal. I wont go all into it because it will be obvious that I take politics to heart. I am biased in the fact that I do support Obama, and it goes much deeper than just race.

2. I do not condone a lower standard of morale in the Whitehouse, I don't care who did what, ANYONE at the executive level of government needs to be a shining example for the people. I'm sorry, a 17 year old unwed pregnant daughter does not meet that morale standard.

3. On this whole executive experience thing, its flat out bull****. Obama (a newcomer) has managed a campaign that will now serve as a clinic for political campaigns for as long as Palin has been governor. He has no executive experience? I'd LOVE to see Sarah Palin run a campaign that comes remotely close to Obama's management skill. Put them on the same court, start from square one and you and I both know who will come out ahead. If he could defeat Hillary, Palin is a walk in the park.

4. The other difference between Palin and Obama? One has been vetted, the other has not, which makes the latter a dumb ass choice for Vice President. All of Obama's business has been wrung out in the public, he has withstood attacks on his wife, mother, father, everyone around him. Palin has skeletons in the closet and now its supposed to be overlooked. If Obama is being elected because he is black then Palin is getting a pass cause she is white.. yeah I said it.

EJ25RUN
09-02-2008, 02:49 PM
Alot of you guys used to bring up good points but after reading the first 2 pages, this has turned into a pretty meaningless thread.

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 02:54 PM
If Obama is being elected because he is black then Palin is getting a pass cause she is white.. yeah I said it.


Oh and let's not forget...because she also has a vagina...
Apparently vagina> real credibility.

tony
09-02-2008, 02:59 PM
Oh and let's not forget...because she also has a vagina...
Apparently vagina> real credibility.

Faux news referred to Michelle as Barack's "Baby Mama" lets see if they refer to Palin's daughter as the same.

BobbyFresco
09-02-2008, 03:04 PM
Faux news referred to Michelle as Barack's "Baby Mama" lets see if they refer to Palin's daughter as the same.





lol:lmfao:

ShooterMcGavin
09-02-2008, 03:10 PM
wow this is the best that the obama camp can come up with after all the bs related to race and his past coming up? no wonder he's slipping in the polls ;)

Reaper
09-02-2008, 03:26 PM
wow this is the best that the obama camp can come up with after all the bs related to race and his past coming up? no wonder he's slipping in the polls ;)

leave it to Wayne to lighten the mood

ps. I've got chickfila feebees for ya son! You comin to the V?

ShooterMcGavin
09-02-2008, 03:36 PM
leave it to Wayne to lighten the mood

ps. I've got chickfila feebees for ya son! You comin to the V?
o snap, the V is this thur isn't it....hmmmm i'll have to seriously consider it :D

Reaper
09-02-2008, 03:38 PM
o snap, the V is this thur isn't it....hmmmm i'll have to seriously consider it :D

I just hope he can give me some more lol He apparently got in trouble recently cuz he gives so many out haha

Jaimecbr900
09-02-2008, 04:37 PM
for 1 thing the Democrats havent even made an issue out of it at all...really. There has been 1 statement about it form the one person that it matters.. and it was simply.. "its off limits"

Yes they indeed have. Look at this thread as an example of how deep people will dig when they are looking for straws to grasp. When you have no credibility and only a pretty smile, you will look for anything to help your cause. This is just but exhibit A of how the Democratic party plays politics.


theres plenty of foreign policy obama speaks about....u can read if ur interested
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

We've all read it. Pull the troops out, leave another war unfinished, let the Terrorists fill the void. Got it. It's the same battle cry the Democratic party has been singing for over a decade. It's not "new" nor "change". Anyone can have a "foreign policy". Hell, I have one. Question is, can you get it DONE? This is where lack of experience and pull comes into play, although the Obama camp wants to down play it.



That's one. I'll come back for the rest in a little while after son's football practice.....:rolleyes:

Alan®
09-02-2008, 05:12 PM
dude your parents pay your bills i discredit everything you say b/c your just dumb. trying to say this house wife w/ 20 months experience and a journalism degree has more then a guy who graduated from harvard law, practiced/taught constitutional law, and been in the senate since 04' :thinking: (i know 4 years is difficult to calculated into months)

your not too bright are you. i'm sure you one of those people who would argue the color of the sky.




sorry dude weak ass argument - getting preggers at 17 is totally parents lack of parenting. this is the problem w/ people today trying to blame everyone else but themselves. sorry but my daughter/son will not be coming home at 17 telling me their knocked up.

this is hilarious b/c RedGT and others were running their mouths about Palin was governor and preggers... well guess what while she was working on birthing her down syndrome baby her daughter was working on getting knocked up. i asked previously who will be taking care of the kids? um i will ask again since obviously Palin nor her husband are fit enough parents to watch their children let alone run our fine country.

sorry but palin sounds like she has some backwater redneck family morals. i'm sure her approval rating in GA will do fine :lmfao:

Ok my Dad pays my bills. So all of a sudden because of that I'm not entitled to an opinion? :lmfao: That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me and you're pretty well educated if I remember correctly.


Again please point out to me other than this campaign, and The Harvard Law Review(which again is basically nothing more than a school newspaper), what has Obama managed on a day to day basis that has had a major impact on people's lives. This is something that nobody has been able to show me since the start of this campaign hence why I don't believe he is ready. His voting record while clear, his statements in the press are constantly changing.

Elbow
09-02-2008, 05:12 PM
She's hot

AznTraitor
09-02-2008, 05:13 PM
Pull the troops out, leave another war unfinished, let the Terrorists fill the void. Got it. It's the same battle cry the Democratic party has been singing for over a decade. It's not "new" nor "change". Anyone can have a "foreign policy". Hell, I have one. Question is, can you get it DONE? This is where lack of experience and pull comes into play, although the Obama camp wants to down play it.




Agreed x 1000.

4dmin
09-02-2008, 05:44 PM
We've all read it. Pull the troops out, leave another war unfinished, let the Terrorists fill the void. Got it. It's the same battle cry the Democratic party has been singing for over a decade. It's not "new" nor "change". Anyone can have a "foreign policy". Hell, I have one. Question is, can you get it DONE? This is where lack of experience and pull comes into play, although the Obama camp wants to down play it.



That's one. I'll come back for the rest in a little while after son's football practice.....:rolleyes:

dayum your son's football practice why can't you be more like palin :lmfao:

mccain has a good foriegn policy? i mean honestly there hasn't been on shred of press on what he plans on doing more on what him and bush see eye to eye which you and i both know has not worked for this past decade.

again - people like the guy on first impression that alone says alot. people can not stand bush and it is well known - he is seen as the antichrist in many countries.


Again please point out to me other than this campaign, and The Harvard Law Review(which again is basically nothing more than a school newspaper), what has Obama managed on a day to day basis that has had a major impact on people's lives. This is something that nobody has been able to show me since the start of this campaign hence why I don't believe he is ready. His voting record while clear, his statements in the press are constantly changing.

again you have selective reading skills - the guy was a practicing civil rights lawyer and then taught constitutional law which from what i know... the constitution is what we are founded on. so i would go to say he probably knows law and US gov infrastructure better then anyone on the ticket. he has 4 years as sentor to top it off to put him on the ticket.

you again are trying to debate a chick who has journalism degree 0% exp is in the same class as a guy w/ a law degree from harvard and years exp in law/senate. dude it is no contest you are trying to move focus off the facts. palin is a nobody and is far from the person the republicans were expecting to take the place of hilary. feminazis are not going to vote for her especially now showing is the a very weak role model for women. she can't even manage her household and you want to put her in power of the worlds most powerful country :rolleyes: please.

tony
09-02-2008, 06:13 PM
Ok my Dad pays my bills. So all of a sudden because of that I'm not entitled to an opinion? :lmfao: That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me and you're pretty well educated if I remember correctly.


Again please point out to me other than this campaign, and The Harvard Law Review(which again is basically nothing more than a school newspaper), what has Obama managed on a day to day basis that has had a major impact on people's lives. This is something that nobody has been able to show me since the start of this campaign hence why I don't believe he is ready. His voting record while clear, his statements in the press are constantly changing.


lol I'd love for you to tell one of the Editors of the Harvard Law Review that it is just a school newspaper. Do you even realize what it takes to get there?

And why does the line of experience continually get pushed back. First it was show you ONE thing, then its show you ANOTHER, now its something else. Your approval doesn't matter because its obviously biased. Obama had more individuals organized on super tuesday than Palin has governed in her entire life. He's taken his campaign to 50 states and then some, she pushed legislation on hunting.. :thinking:

IndianStig
09-02-2008, 06:21 PM
lol I'd love for you to tell one of the Editors of the Harvard Law Review that it is just a school newspaper. Do you even realize what it takes to get there?

And why does the line of experience continually get pushed back. First it was show you ONE thing, then its show you ANOTHER, now its something else. Your approval doesn't matter because its obviously biased. Obama had more individuals organized on super tuesday than Palin has governed in her entire life. He's taken his campaign to 50 states and then some, she pushed legislation on hunting.. :thinking:

Your sig link doesn't work.

Alan®
09-02-2008, 07:07 PM
dayum your son's football practice why can't you be more like palin :lmfao:

mccain has a good foriegn policy? i mean honestly there hasn't been on shred of press on what he plans on doing more on what him and bush see eye to eye which you and i both know has not worked for this past decade.

again - people like the guy on first impression that alone says alot. people can not stand bush and it is well known - he is seen as the antichrist in many countries.



again you have selective reading skills - the guy was a practicing civil rights lawyer and then taught constitutional law which from what i know... the constitution is what we are founded on. so i would go to say he probably knows law and US gov infrastructure better then anyone on the ticket. he has 4 years as sentor to top it off to put him on the ticket.

you again are trying to debate a chick who has journalism degree 0% exp is in the same class as a guy w/ a law degree from harvard and years exp in law/senate. dude it is no contest you are trying to move focus off the facts. palin is a nobody and is far from the person the republicans were expecting to take the place of hilary. feminazis are not going to vote for her especially now showing is the a very weak role model for women. she can't even manage her household and you want to put her in power of the worlds most powerful country :rolleyes: please.
I'm not selectively reading anything. I have heard it from you and Tony that the guy graduated from Harvard and taught constitutional law etc. My honest of Obama is this. The guy is more than qualified to be oh IDK Attorney General or a Judge but not YET ready to be president. Like you said he has an awesome knowledge of the Constitution but yet to prove that he has the leadership necessary to do the job. To me Obama is just another excuse for this country to leave the line Personal Responsibility and Government Duty. People are doing less and less for themselves but yet want more and more from the government hence why so many people like Obama.

Again like you said my dad pays my bills so I'm not entitled to an opinion :rolleyes:

And Tony it's a student run organization. Yea it maybe very well run and all but at the end of the day it's still just a student run organization. It even says it on their website.

ash7
09-02-2008, 07:12 PM
...Your approval doesn't matter because its obviously biased.

as if tony's [opinion] isn't :rolleyes: - Dailykoss.org ftw right tony? lol

-jonathan

tony
09-02-2008, 08:19 PM
as if tony's [opinion] isn't :rolleyes: - Dailykoss.org ftw right tony? lol

-jonathan


I am biased but I will admit when I am wrong or concede a point, there is a difference between bias and objectivity. I tend to learn from those I disagree with so I don't go in with the mentality that I cannot be proven wrong.. I want to be.

And I don't read dailykos, their color scheme annoys me.

Alan®
09-02-2008, 09:00 PM
And I don't read dailykos, their color scheme annoys me.
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Reps. You and I may not always agree but I do see your side and understand it quite well. Glad to see you can still hold yourself well in a discussion without stooping to personal attacks on people. You sir have my respect.

Alan®
09-02-2008, 09:01 PM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tony again.


:( Next time buddy.

Jaimecbr900
09-02-2008, 09:54 PM
First off let's keep this civil and with that being said.....

I always do.



1. Michelle Obama isn't on the ballot either but you Republicans jumped on comments she made. Repeatedly. If she was fair game then so is Palin's child. A child having a child.

Wrong. Very wrong.

Would-be First Lady is certainly part of the ticket. Being MARRIED is a choice, being a son/daughter IS NOT. Therefore, when she stood up on the many podiums to "stand behind her man" then she put that bullseye right on her back. Show me where a 17 yr old daughter of a Governor did that. She didn't and therefore it is what it is. A feable attempt at dirty politics.

The ironic thing is that the more the Democrats cry about it, the more the sympathy vote swings the other direction. Total back fire. So keep at it. It's working great for you.


A. Obama's father leaving his family does not reflect on Senator Obama's OWN family values.

Really? Why not? I mean according to your party someone's 20year old mistake does. I mean someone's daughter's mistake does. Why wouldn't this be the same? Did he not inhale either? :rolleyes:

BTW, obviously the dirty pool tactics failed to sink home with you. I was being sarcastic about pointing out some of the same stupid faults that your party is using as part of their platform to show you how what's good for the goose is good for the gander.



Mccain cheated on his wife, left her for his mistress etc etc. Palin has a pregnant child. Family values what?

I just pointed out above how ridiculous this line of logic is. You want to keep at it? Go for it.



B. I agree that Palin's husband's actions from 20 years ago have no bearing on the now the same way Obama's past drug use, which Republicans jumped on as well, plays an insignificant role on the present.

Hmmm, then how come you've brought it up as part of your debate then? :thinking:


C. Can anyone honestly say that they knew who Palin was before she was announced as Mccain's running mate? What significant role has she played in any position she's held? What corporations has she run? Does she know how many homes she owns, unlike Mccain? Can she effectively hold a position that would require much of her time when she's about to be a grandmother and also has a mentally handicapped child of her own? Is she ready to lead a nation of millions should anything happen to Mccain, when she hasn't had any responsibility that is comparable?

See, the ironic thing is that you have the typical Democratic party mentality. Can't think beyond your own two feet and think the world revolves around one thing.....the GOVERNMENT.:rolleyes:

First of all, Palin is very anti-abortion. Therefore, she is actually doing what your entire party has never been able to do.....lead by example. She KNEW her own child would be born with problems, yet CHOSE to keep that child JUST LIKE SHE PROFESSES TO BELIEVE. She didn't abort. She stepped up and kept her word. Your party suddenly uses that as a "negative". Show me how that's a negative.

Second, a Governor of the largest state in the entire country is no big deal????? :thinking: Okie dokie. Have you stopped to think just what that means? Look up the pecking order in politics. Governors are a rung up from State Legislators, which is the only thing Obama ever really was.

Third, just WHERE do you think ANWR is? So, Obama wants to search for alternative sources of oil to cure our dependency on foreign oil, yet he's been outspoken about NOT drilling in ANWR. Guess WHO'S backyard ANWR is???? Yep, you guessed it....Palin.

Fourth, any man who can stand up, fight for his country, get captured, tortured, and yet stand there giving only name/rank/serial number......can own as many houses as he wants and forget everything he wants.

BTW, you know where Mccain got his money? Married into it. You know how much Obama claimed on his tax returns last year? 4 million. You know what his current house cost? 1.6 million. So let's see.....both are rich, but only ONE served his country in the Military. Hmmm, just who wins that comparison????? :rolleyes:

Since when does being a grandmother hinder you from anything????? Talk about grasping for straws.

You want to talk about experience? Go look up just where your boy Obama was just this past election. He was a nobody until he was asked to speak at the DNC for super duper cry baby flip flopper Kerry. Suddenly now he's the next messiah? That was only 4 short years ago. So you and your party think that someone that goes from zero to hero in 4 years is the best man to lead the most powerful nation in the world, then good for you. I don't.

Much like the majority of Obama supporters who are only voting for him because he's black and because he's not Bush. That's it. You nor the majority of them can, without googling, name what Obama's stance is on 5 major issues. You can however regurgitate what the biased media propaganda is selling. Obama is a black man from a broken home raised by his grand parents. Check. Obama is not a Muslim. Check. Obama is black. Check again. Obama is NOT Bush. Triple check. Cool, that's the best candidate so Ima vote fo he......CHECK. :rolleyes:

Jaimecbr900
09-02-2008, 10:13 PM
Why don't the Obama supporters stick to real substance, like what their candidate stands for? Not what he's PROMISING....not what he's SAYING he's going to do.....but what you truly believe he CAN DELIVER.

Where does he stand on Gun Control?

Where does he stand on the war in Iraq?

Where does he stand on real tax reform?

Where does he stand on nationalized health care?

Where does he stand on abortion?

Where does he stand on immigration?

Where does he stand on crime?

Where does he stand on foreign policy?

Where does he stand on education?

Where does he stand on family values?


Let's just start there. Let's see how many supporters can even answer that. Let's see if you still agree that he is the best man for the job after you research and find out IF he's even got a clear stance on any of this.

My problem with Obama is that he has the masses in such a BS filled trance that it's sickening. People are supporting him yet have no clue why.....other than he is black and NOT Bush. That's it. So that means that I could've ran and some of yall would've voted for me since I'm not WHITE and NOT Bush. Does that suddenly make me qualified to run a country? Hmmmm, maybe I should be a write in on the ballot then. Why not? I'm chock full of IDEAS, because that's all the talking really is if you can't get it DONE......right?

How exactly is Obama going to fund a Nationalized Healthcare system???? Take a guess. Just the same way every other public assistance program is funded.....TAXES. Yet he's going to REDUCE taxes? For whom? People are blinded by reality. The reality is that you can promise to do all kinds of things, yet be oxymoronic about it. You can't LOWER taxes if you plan on taxing MORE to fund your bright ideas. Doesn't work that way. Has anyone bothered to look at other countries that have a national healthcare system in place? Instead of asking for more hand outs, why don't we focus on keeping 100% of our paychecks and repeal the current income tax into oblivion? Because that would mean that we would have to WORK is why. People would rather get taken care of by the Gov't than work for themselves and make a better life. It's the welfare mentality. Why work when I get paid MORE to sit on my a$$ and spit guppies out? Wow, what a way to live. Well, that's exactly what you promote when you make people more and more dependent on gov't rather themselves. You want that?

Reaper
09-02-2008, 10:15 PM
Most badass, well put responses I have seen yet. :goodjob:

Kaiser
09-02-2008, 10:15 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.

Good. Palin's family values fall in line with a realistic expectation of America. It's just proof that despite her crazed super-conservative politico-facade that her and her family are real human beings. The same can be said about the whole Michelle Obama thing.

Of course neither Obama or McCain are really going to bring any major change into the whitehouse. You can't have change coming from mainstream parties in modern politics, that just doesn't get votes. The idea that Obama is going to cause some massive uprising in the political system was blown out of the water when he picked Joe Biden as his running mate. If he wanted to run on a platform of being new blood without lots of deep ties to the Washington inside, then Biden was a killing blow. Of course I feel Palin is a killing blow to the already moderate McCain when it comes to his platform of pretending to be conservative enough to run as a member of the republican party. Maybe he should have jumped ship when Lieberman did and save some face rather than now backtracking on years of having a reputation as being a maverick.

Palin was a terrible choice for McCain...and I think a major mistake. The republican party wants to talk about how it's energized his campaign but I'm not seeing it where it counts, out on the streets. People who are conservatives are overwhelmingly concerned with the fact that Palin's daughter has some semblance of a remotely normal life and is sexually active before marriage and before graduation. I know for the majority of people who are just finishing up college, sex at 17 (Or earlier) wasn't a surprise. A 20 year old DWI is just as meaningless to me of course, since I'd bet there are a fair number of people on this board alone with at least one DWI that have family's and should know better.

Obama is a great speaker, and I was saying four years ago that he was going to be the next democratic nominee for president. How right I was, I just wish I'd made a few bets on it. My only hope in this bleak presidential election is the fact that the Senate and the House are a big enough bunch of ****ups to prevent too much from majorly going wrong, barring another mass-panic of the american populace fueled by a terrorist attack or...God forbid, a presidential assassination.

osnap
09-02-2008, 10:17 PM
...that is all.

SixSquared
09-02-2008, 10:22 PM
...that is all.

LMFAO reps if I can

Vteckidd
09-02-2008, 10:47 PM
Good. Palin's family values fall in line with a realistic expectation of America. It's just proof that despite her crazed super-conservative politico-facade that her and her family are real human beings. The same can be said about the whole Michelle Obama thing.

Of course neither Obama or McCain are really going to bring any major change into the whitehouse. You can't have change coming from mainstream parties in modern politics, that just doesn't get votes. The idea that Obama is going to cause some massive uprising in the political system was blown out of the water when he picked Joe Biden as his running mate. If he wanted to run on a platform of being new blood without lots of deep ties to the Washington inside, then Biden was a killing blow. Of course I feel Palin is a killing blow to the already moderate McCain when it comes to his platform of pretending to be conservative enough to run as a member of the republican party. Maybe he should have jumped ship when Lieberman did and save some face rather than now backtracking on years of having a reputation as being a maverick.

Palin was a terrible choice for McCain...and I think a major mistake. The republican party wants to talk about how it's energized his campaign but I'm not seeing it where it counts, out on the streets. People who are conservatives are overwhelmingly concerned with the fact that Palin's daughter has some semblance of a remotely normal life and is sexually active before marriage and before graduation. I know for the majority of people who are just finishing up college, sex at 17 (Or earlier) wasn't a surprise. A 20 year old DWI is just as meaningless to me of course, since I'd bet there are a fair number of people on this board alone with at least one DWI that have family's and should know better.

Obama is a great speaker, and I was saying four years ago that he was going to be the next democratic nominee for president. How right I was, I just wish I'd made a few bets on it. My only hope in this bleak presidential election is the fact that the Senate and the House are a big enough bunch of ****ups to prevent too much from majorly going wrong, barring another mass-panic of the american populace fueled by a terrorist attack or...God forbid, a presidential assassination.

Quite possibly the BEST post in the last 10 threads about this election.

Although i disagree with you on Palin as being a bad choice, i see where yo uare coming from.

With that said, im out of the political debates until after NOV.

Well said sir :cheers:

stephen
09-03-2008, 03:20 AM
well....since you asked....


Why don't the Obama supporters stick to real substance, like what their candidate stands for? Not what he's PROMISING....not what he's SAYING he's going to do.....but what you truly believe he CAN DELIVER.

[QUOTE=Jaimecbr900]Where does he stand on Gun Control?

this is one of obama's views that i do not necessarily agree on (i value my right to bear arms), BUT i understand. obama's home state is riddled with crime...chicago ALONE had almost the same number of murders as Americans killed in Iraq during the first 4 months of 2008. in all fairness, if you relate our gun control laws to those of other countries, i'm sure you'll find a huge disparity amongst violent crimes/murders (Australia & German are examples). since you already put it out there (about blacks voting for him because he's black), look at how many black youths lose their lives to guns? that being said, how many black parents have lost their children to ridiculous shootings...don't you think his stance on the issue is going to attract their attention?


Where does he stand on the war in Iraq?

you have to be careful when you ask for his views on the "IRAQ war." Obama feels like Afghanistan should be, and should've always been our main target in the war...not Iraq. we were ALL led to believe that the terrorist were in Afghanistan, hence why that should be our primary target. a lot of people fail to see that we're basically fighting 2 totally different wars. 1 against terrorist...and another to free a country from dictatorship. obama has stated on numerous occasions that we need to pull our forces from IRAQ, if fighting terrorism is our main objective. yet again...in all fairness, how many countries AROUND THE WORLD harbor and fund terrorism? how many countries around the world are lead by destructive dictators? should we spend 10 billion dollars a month to fight each and every one, while our own country suffers economically?


Where does he stand on real tax reform?

this is the NUMBER 1 reason why people don't want to vote for obama...i'll link you directly to his site: http://obama.senate.gov/issues/tax_reform/

a few key words that a lot of people miss on this issue are...WORKING FAMILY, TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...and also understand that HE NEVER CREATED THE SYSTEM OF HIGH TAXES FOR THE RICH...he only wants to get it back to its original goal...not to mention, if our country wants out of debt, the money has to come from somewhere. the system has worked before without destroying the wealthy class, why won't it work again?


Where does he stand on nationalized health care?

NATIONALIZED health care isn't his goal at all...he just wants health care to be more affordable, and improve its quality (nationalized is what they have in places like Canada, free for all....eh...). making healthcare more affordable is a benefit to companies who provide their employers with healthcare, and to those that have to purchase it on their own. just this year i had to decline health insurance from my job because it would've taken almost 1/3 of my weekly check...that's just ridiculous. not too mention, look how many entrepreneurs and independent contractors we have in America who have to go out and purchase their own insurance plans...it has only been this bad within the past few years.


Where does he stand on abortion?

obama is pro-abortion, another issue i completely disagree with. i've never and will never be a fan of abortion...PERIOD. the reality of the situation is everyone is allowed to his/ or her own decisions. sadly, there are people who just don't give a sh/t, and will continue to bring children into the world, and live off of the government....so once again, i can understand his view.


Where does he stand on immigration?

his most important views on immigration revolve around giving legal citizens precedence over illegals. naturally, i'd think any American citizen would support that plan. do you know what it's like to finish high school, go to college, get a degree, struggle to find a stable job at a STABLE COMPANY in your field (only to fail), and finally have to settle for a job (just to keep your bills paid and food in your stomach) working next to an illegal who probably hasn't even completed high school. after all of that, you're only making $2hr more than him...and to make it worse, you have to pay taxes on your money! this also goes hand in hand with his view on giving tax breaks to companies that do not out-source to other countries. as far as getting rid of the illegals that're here...that's something that took more than 4yrs to happen, and will take even longer to fix.


Where does he stand on crime?

i touched on this with gun control. he also mentioned at the DNC about how he intends on increasing funding for law enforcement. i used to live in lithonia, and remember when the city's police department got shut down. how ridiculous is that??? meanwhile, the liquor store IN THE SAME PLAZA is booming with business! pizza hut down the street...booming! sh/t makes no sense.


Where does he stand on foreign policy?

he wants to take more diplomatic approaches with global issues. he's a member of the senate foreign relations committee...i mean really...what more "stance" on foreign policy could anyone ask for??? because he's not some gun-ho warrior, itching to press the red button, he's ready to handly foreign issues? there sure were A LOT of other countries that welcomed him with open arms when he made is trip around the world a few months ago. that's something that even good ol' George senior commended him for.


Where does he stand on education?

staunch supporter on education...willing to give tax breaks students (or parents)...willing improve educator's salaries (we ALL know some teachers just don't make enough). he has a plan for EVERY level of education, from improving the quality of education, to assisting with the financial burden. education is invaluable...and i can appreciate ANYONE who wants to improve the quality.


Where does he stand on family values?

family values has been one of his greatest platforms. he stresses family values in EVERY speech he makes. i personally feel that he's a great man, superb father, and devoted husband. i think he's laid an almost rock-solid foundation for the future of his own children. on almost EVERY interview-special that he's done, he is forever telling the story of how he met his wife. i'll always believe he has strong family values...unless i read an article about how he IKE-d the sh.it out of michelle, and the see her with sunglasses on an interview.


Let's just start there. Let's see how many supporters can even answer that. Let's see if you still agree that he is the best man for the job after you research and find out IF he's even got a clear stance on any of this.

My problem with Obama is that he has the masses in such a BS filled trance that it's sickening. People are supporting him yet have no clue why.....other than he is black and NOT Bush. That's it. So that means that I could've ran and some of yall would've voted for me since I'm not WHITE and NOT Bush. Does that suddenly make me qualified to run a country? Hmmmm, maybe I should be a write in on the ballot then. Why not? I'm chock full of IDEAS, because that's all the talking really is if you can't get it DONE......right?

How exactly is Obama going to fund a Nationalized Healthcare system???? Take a guess. Just the same way every other public assistance program is funded.....TAXES. Yet he's going to REDUCE taxes? For whom? People are blinded by reality. The reality is that you can promise to do all kinds of things, yet be oxymoronic about it. You can't LOWER taxes if you plan on taxing MORE to fund your bright ideas. Doesn't work that way. Has anyone bothered to look at other countries that have a national healthcare system in place? Instead of asking for more hand outs, why don't we focus on keeping 100% of our paychecks and repeal the current income tax into oblivion? Because that would mean that we would have to WORK is why. People would rather get taken care of by the Gov't than work for themselves and make a better life. It's the welfare mentality. Why work when I get paid MORE to sit on my a$$ and spit guppies out? Wow, what a way to live. Well, that's exactly what you promote when you make people more and more dependent on gov't rather themselves. You want that?

well...there you have it. an explanation of obama from a supporter. i'm with you 100% on sending income tax into oblivion...but let's be real...the country NEEDS it. our country is in serious debt, and something has to give. our 2 largest expenses...oil and the war...neither of which are going to have a drastic enough change within the next i'll say 2 years. obama is offering conceivable alternative measures until that time comes (hopefully within his 4yr term). the biggest misconception people get about obama's plans is that his policies are going to help the people who don't help themselves...and that's just FALSE. my biggest issue with the current administration is the downward spiral it has sent our economy into, and the negative effects it has had one ME AND MY FAMILY (we have lost a lot that we worked damn hard for). i'm sorry but NOBODY is ever too good for a little help at some point. i hope i gave you a better understanding of the mind of atleast 1 obama supporter.

Total_Blender
09-03-2008, 08:02 AM
Where does he stand on Gun Control?

Where does he stand on the war in Iraq?

Where does he stand on real tax reform?

Where does he stand on nationalized health care?

Where does he stand on abortion?

Where does he stand on immigration?

Where does he stand on crime?

Where does he stand on foreign policy?

Where does he stand on education?

Where does he stand on family values?

:blah::blah:

I'm going to challenge you IA McCain supporters to the same task. Whats MaC going to do for us thats so great? Continue to borrow money from China to fund Iraq and potentially Iran too? All of his "experience" counts for doodley squat IMO because it has just been him supporting the failing policies of the current administration. He has recently flip-flopped on all the things that did make him worthy of consideration.:screwy:

4dmin
09-03-2008, 09:00 AM
I'm not selectively reading anything. I have heard it from you and Tony that the guy graduated from Harvard and taught constitutional law etc. My honest of Obama is this. The guy is more than qualified to be oh IDK Attorney General or a Judge but not YET ready to be president. Like you said he has an awesome knowledge of the Constitution but yet to prove that he has the leadership necessary to do the job. To me Obama is just another excuse for this country to leave the line Personal Responsibility and Government Duty. People are doing less and less for themselves but yet want more and more from the government hence why so many people like Obama.


Dude you still are trying to make an argument w/o taking in all of the facts; your still negating the fact he has been in the senate since 04 on top of being a lawyer, teaching, writing a book, community organizer, havard law graduate at top of his class, etc You do know being a Havard Law graduate he could of worked for anyone he wanted - he could of be a top level attorny like Edwards sueing insurance companies for big $$ but he wanted to do more then just make $$.

Just b/c McCain was in the military doesn't make him able to run the US just b/c Palin has 5 kids doesn't make her able to run the US... see how that sounds. Thats how you sound - bias one sided w/o stating all of the facts behind your arguments.



Second, a Governor of the largest state in the entire country is no big deal????? Okie dokie. Have you stopped to think just what that means? Look up the pecking order in politics. Governors are a rung up from State Legislators, which is the only thing Obama ever really was.

largest state? umm 700,000 people is the largest state, lets clarify your argument LARGEST LAND MASS in the USA. Gwinnett County has more people in it then Alaska. You can include polar bears and penguiens and GA still has a higher population. Mayor of Lawrenceville dealt with a larger population then Palin did as a city council member of Wasilla which has 5500 people And she has only been in office 20 months so don't make it out like she is out changing the world. Though does make you wonder how she scored 27 million of Gov't funding as Mayor of a city 1/4 the size of Lawrenceville, GA.



Third, just WHERE do you think ANWR is? So, Obama wants to search for alternative sources of oil to cure our dependency on foreign oil, yet he's been outspoken about NOT drilling in ANWR. Guess WHO'S backyard ANWR is???? Yep, you guessed it....Palin.


he is out spoken about it b/c he knows the real results mean Bush and rest of his oil friends will be getting richer by allowing such and the end consumer won't see any advantages from this. this has already been discussed by many economist. check voting records Obama supported alternative energy bill when McCain didn't \/

07/05 - alternative energy (obama = yes mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/senate/1/votes/213/

keep it up guys i'll be here all week. :lmfao:

Total_Blender
09-03-2008, 09:24 AM
Drilling in ANWR just increases the supply of oil. But theres already enough oil on the market. If there were a scarcity of oil it would be hard to get. I can go down to the QT and buy all the gas I want. So I fail to see any shortage in supply that opening up ANWR to drilling would cure. Not to mention it would take years to build the facilities and install the equipment for the drilling. So the market would not be effected immediately as some of you claim. If anything the market would be hurting in the short term as Big Oil will have to pay for the start-up costs.

Oil is sold on the commodities market and it is the same price wherever or whoever it is sold to. Oil sourced from ANWR would be sold to the rest of the world in the same manner that most of the oil drilled in the US is already being sold. If you guys didn't know already, we EXPORT nearly all the oil we are drilling right now. So you can't say that ANWR is an answer to the need for reduced dependance on foreign oil when we aren't even using the domestic production we have.

Its not just about reducing the depandance on ofreign oil, its about reducing dependance on oil altogether. T. Boone Pickens (on of the most successful oil CEO's ever) is campaigning for wind power right now. You know the situation is pretty bad when even the oil men are turning against the oil companies. :screwy:

ShooterMcGavin
09-03-2008, 09:32 AM
clearly paul is a diehard democrat, whether or not that was brought about by 8 yrs in office by that dolt bush is unknown, but i really hope it's not the case...

alpine_aw11
09-03-2008, 09:33 AM
Drilling in ANWR just increases the supply of oil. But theres already enough oil on the market. If there were a scarcity of oil it would be hard to get. I can go down to the QT and buy all the gas I want. So I fail to see any shortage in supply that opening up ANWR to drilling would cure. Not to mention it would take years to build the facilities and install the equipment for the drilling. So the market would not be effected immediately as some of you claim. If anything the market would be hurting in the short term as Big Oil will have to pay for the start-up costs.

Oil is sold on the commodities market and it is the same price wherever or whoever it is sold to. Oil sourced from ANWR would be sold to the rest of the world in the same manner that most of the oil drilled in the US is already being sold. If you guys didn't know already, we EXPORT nearly all the oil we are drilling right now. So you can't say that ANWR is an answer to the need for reduced dependance on foreign oil when we aren't even using the domestic production we have.

Its not just about reducing the depandance on ofreign oil, its about reducing dependance on oil altogether. T. Boone Pickens (on of the most successful oil CEO's ever) is campaigning for wind power right now. You know the situation is pretty bad when even the oil men are turning against the oil companies. :screwy:

If we were to drill ANWR, it would most likely cause price drops from foreign suppliers. I haven't looked into it, but based on my basic knowledge of economics, the factor is all about supply and demand. If our foreign suppliers see that we are finally willing to increase oil production, they will lower their prices. Yes, we have always had the ability to drill for more, but it's never been put in place. If we were to actually take the initiative to supply ourselves and sell oil on the world market, the countries who supply us would in turn lower their prices to compensate for a new seller.

Jaimecbr900
09-03-2008, 09:37 AM
this is one of obama's views that i do not necessarily agree on (i value my right to bear arms), BUT i understand. obama's home state is riddled with crime...chicago ALONE had almost the same number of murders as Americans killed in Iraq during the first 4 months of 2008. in all fairness, if you relate our gun control laws to those of other countries, i'm sure you'll find a huge disparity amongst violent crimes/murders (Australia & German are examples). since you already put it out there (about blacks voting for him because he's black), look at how many black youths lose their lives to guns? that being said, how many black parents have lost their children to ridiculous shootings...don't you think his stance on the issue is going to attract their attention?

Well, I don't understand disarming LAW ABIDING CITIZENS at all. Neither did our founding fathers, hence it is part of the Constitution. So his idea that you disarm people and leave them unable to defend themselves against criminals who care nothing about "laws" by definition is totally absurd to me. Any person who professes to be a supporter of MORE protection against civil liberties, as Obama professes, infractions doesn't try to take away my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms and protect myself, my family, and possibly others. It's an oxymoron.



you have to be careful when you ask for his views on the "IRAQ war." Obama feels like Afghanistan should be, and should've always been our main target in the war...not Iraq. we were ALL led to believe that the terrorist were in Afghanistan, hence why that should be our primary target. a lot of people fail to see that we're basically fighting 2 totally different wars. 1 against terrorist...and another to free a country from dictatorship. obama has stated on numerous occasions that we need to pull our forces from IRAQ, if fighting terrorism is our main objective. yet again...in all fairness, how many countries AROUND THE WORLD harbor and fund terrorism? how many countries around the world are lead by destructive dictators? should we spend 10 billion dollars a month to fight each and every one, while our own country suffers economically?

Actually, he's clearly said he would pull troops out if elected. Therefore it would leave a war unfinished, a void that Terrorists/Dictators would fill, and only give us a repeat of the Clinton no-backbone-left-unfinished initial war in Iraq where we could have avoided 9-11 all together.




this is the NUMBER 1 reason why people don't want to vote for obama...i'll link you directly to his site: http://obama.senate.gov/issues/tax_reform/

a few key words that a lot of people miss on this issue are...WORKING FAMILY, TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...and also understand that HE NEVER CREATED THE SYSTEM OF HIGH TAXES FOR THE RICH...he only wants to get it back to its original goal...not to mention, if our country wants out of debt, the money has to come from somewhere. the system has worked before without destroying the wealthy class, why won't it work again?

Wrong. He does want to implement tax changes that affect high wage earners as if that is going to resolve something. It won't. Look at it this way, the top wage earners comprise only 1% of ALL tax payers, yet they pay way more than 1% of all taxes. So you want to penalize high wage earners for making money, so you can give it to those of us that don't make that kind of money? How's that make sense? That's a Socialist idea, not a democratic one. Why not make it equal across the board and make it a consumption tax, ie. the fair tax? Rich people SPEND money to avoid paying income taxes on it. When you SPEND money, under a fair tax, they get TAXED. It doesn't matter if you're illegal, drug dealer, unemployed, or Donald Trump. You would PAY taxes which in turn would mean Trillions in revenue we DON'T SEE now. Why? Because those illegals, drug dealers, and unemployed DON'T PAY TAXES NOW. How can people not see that would net MORE revenue?




NATIONALIZED health care isn't his goal at all...he just wants health care to be more affordable, and improve its quality (nationalized is what they have in places like Canada, free for all....eh...). making healthcare more affordable is a benefit to companies who provide their employers with healthcare, and to those that have to purchase it on their own. just this year i had to decline health insurance from my job because it would've taken almost 1/3 of my weekly check...that's just ridiculous. not too mention, look how many entrepreneurs and independent contractors we have in America who have to go out and purchase their own insurance plans...it has only been this bad within the past few years.

Wrong again. He does support Nationalized Health Care. Here is his own quote, from his own personal website:

"OBAMA: Well, look, I believe in universal health care, as does Sen. Clinton. And the point of the debate, is that Sen. Clinton repeatedly claims that I don't stand for universal health care. And, you know, for Sen. Clinton to say that, I think, is simply not accurate. Every expert has said that anybody who wants health care under my plan will be able to obtain it. President Clinton's own secretary of Labor has said that my plan does more to reduce costs and as a consequence makes sure that the people who need health care right now, all across America, will be able to obtain it. And we do more to reduce costs than any other plan that's been out there."




obama is pro-abortion, another issue i completely disagree with. i've never and will never be a fan of abortion...PERIOD. the reality of the situation is everyone is allowed to his/ or her own decisions. sadly, there are people who just don't give a sh/t, and will continue to bring children into the world, and live off of the government....so once again, i can understand his view.

Yet he himself admits he doesn't want to make a decision as to WHEN "life" begins as a definition. This is the basic premise of abortion. So if you don't know when "life" begins, how can you say you're for or against?




his most important views on immigration revolve around giving legal citizens precedence over illegals. naturally, i'd think any American citizen would support that plan. do you know what it's like to finish high school, go to college, get a degree, struggle to find a stable job at a STABLE COMPANY in your field (only to fail), and finally have to settle for a job (just to keep your bills paid and food in your stomach) working next to an illegal who probably hasn't even completed high school. after all of that, you're only making $2hr more than him...and to make it worse, you have to pay taxes on your money! this also goes hand in hand with his view on giving tax breaks to companies that do not out-source to other countries. as far as getting rid of the illegals that're here...that's something that took more than 4yrs to happen, and will take even longer to fix.

Not what I've read about his immigration views. From what I've seen, he wants to give licenses to illegals, free health care for illegals, and different forms of amnesty as part of his resolution.



i touched on this with gun control. he also mentioned at the DNC about how he intends on increasing funding for law enforcement. i used to live in lithonia, and remember when the city's police department got shut down. how ridiculous is that??? meanwhile, the liquor store IN THE SAME PLAZA is booming with business! pizza hut down the street...booming! sh/t makes no sense.

There's more to crime prevention than just gun control. It is a big part, but there's also: law enforcement, legal system, and prison system. Where does he stand or does he even have plans for any of the other parts?




he wants to take more diplomatic approaches with global issues. he's a member of the senate foreign relations committee...i mean really...what more "stance" on foreign policy could anyone ask for??? because he's not some gun-ho warrior, itching to press the red button, he's ready to handly foreign issues? there sure were A LOT of other countries that welcomed him with open arms when he made is trip around the world a few months ago. that's something that even good ol' George senior commended him for.

Yep, he wants to sit down with terrorists and dictators to "talk" about the problems. Right! That's going to work about as good as "talking" down a bully. You have to hand that bully a good a$$ whoopin before he will ever listen to anything you have to say. Obama doesn't want to do that. He wants to pacify that bully by sitting down and having tea and crumpets with them. Yeah, right. The same people that want to KILL YOU are going to come running to have tea and crumpets with you. Okie dokie. Makes perfect sense. This is one of the big problems I have with Obama. He's a pacifist.




staunch supporter on education...willing to give tax breaks students (or parents)...willing improve educator's salaries (we ALL know some teachers just don't make enough). he has a plan for EVERY level of education, from improving the quality of education, to assisting with the financial burden. education is invaluable...and i can appreciate ANYONE who wants to improve the quality.

I give him that. He does have some good ideas on Education.




family values has been one of his greatest platforms. he stresses family values in EVERY speech he makes. i personally feel that he's a great man, superb father, and devoted husband. i think he's laid an almost rock-solid foundation for the future of his own children. on almost EVERY interview-special that he's done, he is forever telling the story of how he met his wife. i'll always believe he has strong family values...unless i read an article about how he IKE-d the sh.it out of michelle, and the see her with sunglasses on an interview.

Give him this one as well.

4dmin
09-03-2008, 09:48 AM
clearly paul is a diehard democrat, whether or not that was brought about by 8 yrs in office by that dolt bush is unknown, but i really hope it's not the case...

actually i normally will vote libertarian but when it comes to presidency i vote who i think is in the best interest of me and my country. bush was a complete total idiot and i refused to vote for him; we have already given the republicans 8 years w/o any success. it is time to pass the gavel.

ShooterMcGavin
09-03-2008, 10:07 AM
actually i normally will vote libertarian but when it comes to presidency i vote who i think is in the best interest of me and my country. bush was a complete total idiot and i refused to vote for him; we have already given the republicans 8 years w/o any success. it is time to pass the gavel.
so you only see in black or white? and 1 bad seed can ruin it for an entire party? i see you're a lost cause on this one as you've already made up your mind that republican = evil :no:

4dmin
09-03-2008, 10:14 AM
so you only see in black or white? and 1 bad seed can ruin it for an entire party? i see you're a lost cause on this one as you've already made up your mind that republican = evil :no:

well considering i can really only make a difference by voting lesser of two evils and mccain is going to go along w/ republicans/bush policy there isn't any hope at this time for republicans. for two terms bush has made nothing but enemys on both sides. why do you think a democrat was headliner speech last night and bush had small 10 min cameo? his own party yet who supports him doesn't even want to be seen as bush supporters.

mccain would of picked lieberman for VP but republicans would of never let that happen. i think that would of been quite an intersteding ticket. republican president who is wants to be a democrat and a democrat vp who wants to be a republican.

tony
09-03-2008, 10:25 AM
Jaime, why ask all these questions about Obama's policy only to rebut or disagree when someone answers the question? The man answered some with proof and you still disagree with what was posted. That kind of neglects the reason for asking the questions if you already have your own answers.

Jaimecbr900
09-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Jaime, why ask all these questions about Obama's policy only to rebut or disagree when someone answers the question? The man answered some with proof and you still disagree with what was posted. That kind of neglects the reason for asking the questions if you already have your own answers.

Did you not notice that I actually agreed with some of his points?

I asked because my whole point is that the MAJORITY of Obama supporters, not you and obviously stephen, support Obama without having any idea as to why other than he's black and he's not Bush.

Just because Obama SAYS he's going to do something, it doesn't mean that it will get done nor it's a great idea....ie. sitting down with terrorists. So yes, I'm going to counter the points, because I don't agree with him.

AznTraitor
09-03-2008, 12:21 PM
Ronald Reagan stated it the best...

"Weakness invites aggression"

collins
09-03-2008, 12:23 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-husband-has-dwi-arrest/

Palins husband has a DWI arrest, albeit 20 years ago but nonetheless its a DWI.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

Palins daughter, 17 years old and 5 months pregnant out of wedlock to an older man.

To the McSame nut swingers, how will you spin this? Experience? If this was Obama, Clinton, or Biden you guys would be all over this. I anxiously await the response that shows the Republicans are the party of family values.

tony, you seem very intelligent and for the most part, a nice guy... but i love how you're telling me how i'd view things! lol...



and yeah, i'm a little late to the thread... bite me :tongue1:

Jaimecbr900
09-03-2008, 12:50 PM
Oh, and Paul......he don't know Jack either......he just hates me because he's a heathun......:tongue1:

stephen
09-03-2008, 04:31 PM
Well, I don't understand disarming LAW ABIDING CITIZENS at all. Neither did our founding fathers, hence it is part of the Constitution. So his idea that you disarm people and leave them unable to defend themselves against criminals who care nothing about "laws" by definition is totally absurd to me. Any person who professes to be a supporter of MORE protection against civil liberties, as Obama professes, infractions doesn't try to take away my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms and protect myself, my family, and possibly others. It's an oxymoron.

have our "founding fathers" ever been wrong (13th, 14th, 15th amendments ring a bell)? as i stated, i DO NOT SUPPORT his position on gun control...BUT realize that there is a bigger picture. there were 2 bills that he attempted to get past prior to him running for president...1 allowing citizens to only purchase 1 gun a month and 2 banning semi-automatic weapons. i'm not sure how many guns you feel you need a month to protect yourself/family/others? the semi-automatic bill...well that's a different story...one that i would never support. neither bill takes away from our constitutional right to bear arms...it just makes things more difficult.



Actually, he's clearly said he would pull troops out if elected. Therefore it would leave a war unfinished, a void that Terrorists/Dictators would fill, and only give us a repeat of the Clinton no-backbone-left-unfinished initial war in Iraq where we could have avoided 9-11 all together.

IRAQ WAS NOT THE CAUSE OF 9-11...afghanistan maybe, but not IRAQ. he did say he would pull troops out, but in a timely manner...MUCH LIKE WHAT THE TROOP WITHDRAWL PLAN WE HAVE NOW.




Wrong. He does want to implement tax changes that affect high wage earners as if that is going to resolve something. It won't. Look at it this way, the top wage earners comprise only 1% of ALL tax payers, yet they pay way more than 1% of all taxes. So you want to penalize high wage earners for making money, so you can give it to those of us that don't make that kind of money? How's that make sense? That's a Socialist idea, not a democratic one. Why not make it equal across the board and make it a consumption tax, ie. the fair tax? Rich people SPEND money to avoid paying income taxes on it. When you SPEND money, under a fair tax, they get TAXED. It doesn't matter if you're illegal, drug dealer, unemployed, or Donald Trump. You would PAY taxes which in turn would mean Trillions in revenue we DON'T SEE now. Why? Because those illegals, drug dealers, and unemployed DON'T PAY TAXES NOW. How can people not see that would net MORE revenue?

have you taken a look at the recent GDP numbers? those stimulus checks gave us a 3.3% increase in the GDP...a number we haven't seen in a while. check this out...you weren't given a stimilus check if you made over a certain amount (75k i believe), and you also weren't given the full amount based on your income. basically, by giving WORKING MIDDLE CLASS americans under the $75k income bracket an extra $600 in their tax return, has provided our economy a 3.3% increase in the GDP. PROOF POSITIVE that providing financial support to WORKING MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES WILL RESULT IN A POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE ECONOMY.




Wrong again. He does support Nationalized Health Care. Here is his own quote, from his own personal website:

"OBAMA: Well, look, I believe in universal health care, as does Sen. Clinton. And the point of the debate, is that Sen. Clinton repeatedly claims that I don't stand for universal health care. And, you know, for Sen. Clinton to say that, I think, is simply not accurate. Every expert has said that anybody who wants health care under my plan will be able to obtain it. President Clinton's own secretary of Labor has said that my plan does more to reduce costs and as a consequence makes sure that the people who need health care right now, all across America, will be able to obtain it. And we do more to reduce costs than any other plan that's been out there."

this is where obama's backbone becomes an issue. regardless of how obama words it, HE'S NOT FIGHTING FOR NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE, and RIGHTLY SO. nationalized healthcare is what they have in Canada, where THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES/PAYS FOR ALL HEALTHCARE. making healthcare more affordable still keeps the American people paying for it, but at a rate that they can afford. NATIONALIZED/FREE HEALTHCARE IS STUPID, and obama needs to make it more clear for people (who hear the wrong message)to understand that is not his primary objective....AFFORDABLE NOT FREE. the result of free healthcare is waiting list for critical operations, and that would just create a bigger issue within itself.




Yet he himself admits he doesn't want to make a decision as to WHEN "life" begins as a definition. This is the basic premise of abortion. So if you don't know when "life" begins, how can you say you're for or against?

once again...something that i don't agree with him on. abortion is a moral issue, and it's something that i'm against. either way it goes...i'll never do it, so i could careless what obama or mccain has to say on the issue...it's "win win" for me.



Not what I've read about his immigration views. From what I've seen, he wants to give licenses to illegals, free health care for illegals, and different forms of amnesty as part of his resolution.

yes, he has made statements on giving amnesty (not sure about licenses and healthcare), but think about it in terms of taxes. 12 million illegal people are here, taking citizen's jobs, and not even paying taxes. it's impossible to send 12 million people back home...but you can give them their "american dream" and make them pay taxes like the rest of us.



There's more to crime prevention than just gun control. It is a big part, but there's also: law enforcement, legal system, and prison system. Where does he stand or does he even have plans for any of the other parts?

i already mentioned his plans for law enforcement, and i'll admit i don't know a whole lot about what he intends on doing with the legal/prison system (both of which i don't intend on seeing in my life-time). funding is an issue within the smaller cities around the U.S. i've heard him specifically say that he wants to increase funding for LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT (keep them better equipped, pay for MORE police officers, etc.). it isn't ALL about gun control.




Yep, he wants to sit down with terrorists and dictators to "talk" about the problems. Right! That's going to work about as good as "talking" down a bully. You have to hand that bully a good a$$ whoopin before he will ever listen to anything you have to say. Obama doesn't want to do that. He wants to pacify that bully by sitting down and having tea and crumpets with them. Yeah, right. The same people that want to KILL YOU are going to come running to have tea and crumpets with you. Okie dokie. Makes perfect sense. This is one of the big problems I have with Obama. He's a pacifist.


you're right, you can't "pacify" a bully...but what country is REALLY bullying the U.S.??? NOT ONE. our military is only so big man...we can't turn EVERYONE into an enemy. like i said before, terrorism and dictatorship exist ALL OVER, and we can't fight it alone. we need to do a better job at strengthening our relationships with ALLIES, and gaining MORE ALLIES, so that when the time does come to kick a$$, we can get down to it. obama has a unique ability to talk, and make his speeches "connect" with people...so why not let him do it? once again...when dude went across the world, he was accepted with open arms, SOMETHING BUSH SENIOR ADMIRED...that's something that you republicans need to think more about...MAVERICKS AREN'T ALWAYS GUN-SLINGERS...

blaknoize
09-03-2008, 06:57 PM
Hope you weren't looking for a discussion on this topic. Later, QD.

...messes with ANYONE lol :D

tony
09-03-2008, 09:13 PM
tony, you seem very intelligent and for the most part, a nice guy... but i love how you're telling me how i'd view things! lol...



and yeah, i'm a little late to the thread... bite me :tongue1:


Ehh, in all honesty don't pay me any attention. I just enjoy the discussion and I do sit and think about how bad would it really be under John McCain. In all seriousness, it probably wouldn't be THAT bad.. I just prefer Obama.

It wouldn't be the end of the world for me if McCain wins, hell.. it'd probably make my time in the Air Force that much more enjoyable.

Jaimecbr900
09-03-2008, 10:42 PM
have our "founding fathers" ever been wrong (13th, 14th, 15th amendments ring a bell)? as i stated, i DO NOT SUPPORT his position on gun control...BUT realize that there is a bigger picture. there were 2 bills that he attempted to get past prior to him running for president...1 allowing citizens to only purchase 1 gun a month and 2 banning semi-automatic weapons. i'm not sure how many guns you feel you need a month to protect yourself/family/others? the semi-automatic bill...well that's a different story...one that i would never support. neither bill takes away from our constitutional right to bear arms...it just makes things more difficult.

I don't understand how liberal minded people like Obama and yourself think. So the answer to the problem of crime is to blame it on inanimate objects. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So any form of Gun control is not going to solve anything. Why can't yall understand that ANY legislation to limit ANY gun ownership will ONLY affect LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Much like the Democratic party feels they must "punish" high achievers for their success by taxing them even MORE, gun control "controls" only ONE segment of the population. Criminals wipe their a$$ with laws, the Constitution, and the paper is printed on. So you and Obama want to stop criminals with PAPER???? Let me know how that works out for you. Meanwhile, I'll be sitting in the corner with my 50 guns ready to take up for myself. Let's see who's left standing after a while. ;)




IRAQ WAS NOT THE CAUSE OF 9-11...afghanistan maybe, but not IRAQ. he did say he would pull troops out, but in a timely manner...MUCH LIKE WHAT THE TROOP WITHDRAWL PLAN WE HAVE NOW.

You didn't get it. Iraq wasn't the cause of 9-11, but the great white hope CLINTON WAS. He had Ossamah in the cross hairs and could've wiped him off the face of the earth. He decided being PC was more important, and more than 3000 people paid for that mistake with their lives.

Obama wants to withdraw the troops immediately. He's back pedalled for a while now, but that is his basic premise. Have we not learned anything from that mistake? Why are we in Iraq now? Because we didn't finish the job the Sr. started and listened to the U.N. That's it. Had Hussein been dealt with back in 91, we wouldn't be in Iraq today. That's a fact. Now, Obama is itching to make the same mistake in the name of votes.




have you taken a look at the recent GDP numbers? those stimulus checks gave us a 3.3% increase in the GDP...a number we haven't seen in a while. check this out...you weren't given a stimilus check if you made over a certain amount (75k i believe), and you also weren't given the full amount based on your income. basically, by giving WORKING MIDDLE CLASS americans under the $75k income bracket an extra $600 in their tax return, has provided our economy a 3.3% increase in the GDP. PROOF POSITIVE that providing financial support to WORKING MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES WILL RESULT IN A POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE ECONOMY.

#1. Where are you getting these numbers from?
#2. If you think that Middle America invested that $600, you are sadly mistaken. I'm willing to bet that 90% just spent it at will.
#3. Look at the fiasco FEMA caused when they simply handed people check cards after Katrina. Money was spent on stupid things like drugs, fur coats, and jewelry. The bare necesseties? Yeah right! So keep thinking that handing out money is going to suddenly make people more economically smart. It doesn't. Look at the welfare system in America. You think it promotes people to get on their feet or just sit back on their rump?




this is where obama's backbone becomes an issue. regardless of how obama words it, HE'S NOT FIGHTING FOR NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE, and RIGHTLY SO. nationalized healthcare is what they have in Canada, where THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES/PAYS FOR ALL HEALTHCARE. making healthcare more affordable still keeps the American people paying for it, but at a rate that they can afford. NATIONALIZED/FREE HEALTHCARE IS STUPID, and obama needs to make it more clear for people (who hear the wrong message)to understand that is not his primary objective....AFFORDABLE NOT FREE. the result of free healthcare is waiting list for critical operations, and that would just create a bigger issue within itself.

Are you Obama's speech writer? I know how to read well. His own words say he is for Nationalized healthcare. He can candy coat everything he wants, but that's what it is. Do you think that if someone ASKS you if you can "afford" health insurance people will be honest and say "ummm, yeah, I really can....". Hell no they won't. They're going to take it like any other hand out. So then instead of making people responsible for their own health insurance, you are going to make them.....what.....DEPENDENT on yet another GOV'T hand out. It's not about healthy babies or sweet little old ladies that can't go to the doctor. It's about dependency. The more people depend on the GOV'T to give them something, the bigger and more controlling the GOV'T gets.



yes, he has made statements on giving amnesty (not sure about licenses and healthcare), but think about it in terms of taxes. 12 million illegal people are here, taking citizen's jobs, and not even paying taxes. it's impossible to send 12 million people back home...but you can give them their "american dream" and make them pay taxes like the rest of us.

The same thing can be done by simply implementing the Fair tax. No need for amnesty. Amnesty is looking the other way when someone commits a crime in the name of collecting more taxes. Why not just make drugs legal so we can then tax the dealers? It's the same idea. So immigration reform only means turn the other cheek to you guys? How about we make the legalization process easier so that people that WANT to do it don't have to wait forever to do so? How about closing down our borders? How about we scrutinize foreigners MORE without worrying about being PC? How about we don't offer so many free hand outs to illegals? How about enforcing the laws that are already on the books NOW? That to me is reform and action. Amnesty is the easy way out.



you're right, you can't "pacify" a bully...but what country is REALLY bullying the U.S.??? NOT ONE. our military is only so big man...we can't turn EVERYONE into an enemy. like i said before, terrorism and dictatorship exist ALL OVER, and we can't fight it alone. we need to do a better job at strengthening our relationships with ALLIES, and gaining MORE ALLIES, so that when the time does come to kick a$$, we can get down to it. obama has a unique ability to talk, and make his speeches "connect" with people...so why not let him do it? once again...when dude went across the world, he was accepted with open arms, SOMETHING BUSH SENIOR ADMIRED...that's something that you republicans need to think more about...MAVERICKS AREN'T ALWAYS GUN-SLINGERS...

The typical UN, we need everybody's approval before looking out for ourselves, response. :rolleyes:

Does the UN, France, Russia, Nigeria, China, N. Korea, or Saudi Arabia send aid here? Do they pay my taxes? Do they wait on OUR approval before waging war against anyone? Nope. They do whatever they damn well please when they please it. So why do we need their approval for anything? It's ridiculous.

By sitting down with Terrorist nations, terrorists, dictators, the UN, etc. we are doing nothing but sitting down with the "bully" to pacify THEM. I have yet to see a single Middle Eastern leader bring their happy a$$ over to the Whitehouse and sit down with the Pres. and say "hey, how can I help you get rid of terrorism...." since Sadat.....and we all know what happened to him, right? Why should we then think that sitting down with them is going to do anything except assure them that suicide bombers and threats work. What does Israel do when they get bombed by the Palestinians? They bomb right back. They don't wait for UN to give them permission. They shoot back. How do you think that such a small "nation" has been able to keep control of that area? Every other Muslim nation hates them, yet they've been able to keep them from over running them. How? By not taking any crap from any of them. You send a suicide bomber to that country, they fire 3 missiles right back at YOUR country.

So you still want to sit down and have tea and crumpets with Allah Akbar who wants to KILL YOU? Go ahead. Be my guest.

stephen
09-04-2008, 02:40 AM
I don't understand how liberal minded people like Obama and yourself think. So the answer to the problem of crime is to blame it on inanimate objects. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So any form of Gun control is not going to solve anything. Why can't yall understand that ANY legislation to limit ANY gun ownership will ONLY affect LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Much like the Democratic party feels they must "punish" high achievers for their success by taxing them even MORE, gun control "controls" only ONE segment of the population. Criminals wipe their a$$ with laws, the Constitution, and the paper is printed on. So you and Obama want to stop criminals with PAPER???? Let me know how that works out for you. Meanwhile, I'll be sitting in the corner with my 50 guns ready to take up for myself. Let's see who's left standing after a while. ;)

i'm not sure how many different ways you want me to tell you...I DISAGREE WITH OBAMA'S GUN POLICY...all i can say is i can understand his thinking....extremely drastic, but understandable.




You didn't get it. Iraq wasn't the cause of 9-11, but the great white hope CLINTON WAS. He had Ossamah in the cross hairs and could've wiped him off the face of the earth. He decided being PC was more important, and more than 3000 people paid for that mistake with their lives.

Obama wants to withdraw the troops immediately. He's back pedalled for a while now, but that is his basic premise. Have we not learned anything from that mistake? Why are we in Iraq now? Because we didn't finish the job the Sr. started and listened to the U.N. That's it. Had Hussein been dealt with back in 91, we wouldn't be in Iraq today. That's a fact. Now, Obama is itching to make the same mistake in the name of votes.

I GET IT...SO IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT...riiiight. let me hip you to a little reading material from THE MEMOIRS OF BUSH SENIOR...then i want you to think about this $10billion a month war WITH YOUR MONEY, instigated by our fearless leader....junior...and willing to be continued by mccain.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp




#1. Where are you getting these numbers from?
#2. If you think that Middle America invested that $600, you are sadly mistaken. I'm willing to bet that 90% just spent it at will.
#3. Look at the fiasco FEMA caused when they simply handed people check cards after Katrina. Money was spent on stupid things like drugs, fur coats, and jewelry. The bare necesseties? Yeah right! So keep thinking that handing out money is going to suddenly make people more economically smart. It doesn't. Look at the welfare system in America. You think it promotes people to get on their feet or just sit back on their rump?

1. BUREAU OF ECONOMIC ANALYSIS (geez...i guess it's not that republicans don't understand, you just DON'T KNOW).
2008 Q1 +.9%
2008 Q2 +3.3%

2. lol, dude...the money had nothing to do with INVESTING IT, it was solely the purpose of spending it. the idea was for 100% of the people to spend it, in order to do what.....STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.

3. FEMA checks...how about you give me some numbers this time on the amount of drugs, furs, and jewelry were purchased, then i'll follow you onto this one.

here's another link for you: http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN3043337220080731?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true


Are you Obama's speech writer? I know how to read well. His own words say he is for Nationalized healthcare. He can candy coat everything he wants, but that's what it is. Do you think that if someone ASKS you if you can "afford" health insurance people will be honest and say "ummm, yeah, I really can....". Hell no they won't. They're going to take it like any other hand out. So then instead of making people responsible for their own health insurance, you are going to make them.....what.....DEPENDENT on yet another GOV'T hand out. It's not about healthy babies or sweet little old ladies that can't go to the doctor. It's about dependency. The more people depend on the GOV'T to give them something, the bigger and more controlling the GOV'T gets.

no, i'm not his speech writer...but i do understand DEFINITIONS. dude can call it what he wants, but it's not that....but whatever, that's neither here nor there. want more OFFICIAL numbers? these come from THE CENSUS BUREAU.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthins/hlthin07/hlthfigs07.html
click on "FIGURE 6." i want you to look closely at the dates bush senior was in office, then clinton, then junior. look closely at the unisured percentages from the begining of each of their terms, to the end, and tell me YOU don't see a trend.


The same thing can be done by simply implementing the Fair tax. No need for amnesty. Amnesty is looking the other way when someone commits a crime in the name of collecting more taxes. Why not just make drugs legal so we can then tax the dealers? It's the same idea. So immigration reform only means turn the other cheek to you guys? How about we make the legalization process easier so that people that WANT to do it don't have to wait forever to do so? How about closing down our borders? How about we scrutinize foreigners MORE without worrying about being PC? How about we don't offer so many free hand outs to illegals? How about enforcing the laws that are already on the books NOW? That to me is reform and action. Amnesty is the easy way out.

dude...mccain wants to REDUCE taxes, and still pay for stuff WE CAN'T AFFORD. it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

you know what's funny though...obama and mccain have similiar plans on dealing with immigration, and yet you're still arguing how OBAMA's idea is the one that wrong. actually...their plans are EXACTLY THE SAME...something i just learned after doing a little more research on YOUR CANDIDATE.



The typical UN, we need everybody's approval before looking out for ourselves, response. :rolleyes:

Does the UN, France, Russia, Nigeria, China, N. Korea, or Saudi Arabia send aid here? Do they pay my taxes? Do they wait on OUR approval before waging war against anyone? Nope. They do whatever they damn well please when they please it. So why do we need their approval for anything? It's ridiculous.

By sitting down with Terrorist nations, terrorists, dictators, the UN, etc. we are doing nothing but sitting down with the "bully" to pacify THEM. I have yet to see a single Middle Eastern leader bring their happy a$$ over to the Whitehouse and sit down with the Pres. and say "hey, how can I help you get rid of terrorism...." since Sadat.....and we all know what happened to him, right? Why should we then think that sitting down with them is going to do anything except assure them that suicide bombers and threats work. What does Israel do when they get bombed by the Palestinians? They bomb right back. They don't wait for UN to give them permission. They shoot back. How do you think that such a small "nation" has been able to keep control of that area? Every other Muslim nation hates them, yet they've been able to keep them from over running them. How? By not taking any crap from any of them. You send a suicide bomber to that country, they fire 3 missiles right back at YOUR country.

So you still want to sit down and have tea and crumpets with Allah Akbar who wants to KILL YOU? Go ahead. Be my guest.

you're missing the point...you conservatives walk with blinders on. nobody needs the U.N. approval...but seriously, how much can the U.S. do to fight a GLOBAL problem all on its own???? you know what...fu.ck it....let's spend $10 billion a month of OUR MONEY to shoot up 2 small countries for 100yrs. let's allow 100+ americans to die every month, in 2 countries for a cause that plagues THE WORLD. let's allow young men and women (by the thousands) to come home in ridiculous mental conditions, medical conditions, and addictions to prove that we've got the biggest nuts on the planet. better yet...let's just let them not come home at all...give them a life sentence in the sands of some foreign desert, without the possibility of parole. have you ever heard of "stop-loss?" look into it, there was even a movie about it (great movie too). like i showed you a little further up...BUSH SENIOR DIDN'T THINK IRAQ WAS A GOOD MOVE FOR AMERICA, and he made that clear during his OWN presidency.

by the way....where did "Allah Akbar" get his weapons from in the first place? as a matter of fact...whose daddy gave them to him? i guess they were decent enough people to sit down with, and sell guns to at some point...right?

Jaimecbr900
09-04-2008, 07:42 AM
i'm not sure how many different ways you want me to tell you...I DISAGREE WITH OBAMA'S GUN POLICY...all i can say is i can understand his thinking....extremely drastic, but understandable.

So you "understand" it, yet disagree with it. Got it. :rolleyes:

You justified it with all your facts and figures about the black youth death rate.




I GET IT...SO IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT...riiiight. let me hip you to a little reading material from THE MEMOIRS OF BUSH SENIOR...then i want you to think about this $10billion a month war WITH YOUR MONEY, instigated by our fearless leader....junior...and willing to be continued by mccain.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp

So Clinton DIDN'T have Ossamah in his sights and DECLINED to kill him???? You need to do better research instead of buying into your party line's idea to blame the Republicans. He DID have Ossamah in his sights....CONFIRMED...but he decided, all by himself, that it was NOT prudent to take him out because what???? There was the son of an important person in the tent with him....probably plotting to kill you and me both. Great decision there, huh? So yes, 9-11 could have possibly been avoided had CLINTON.....a DEMOCRAT.....had the nads to quit being PC and take out a major "threat" then, which turned out to be a REAL threat now.

Instigate? Really? How about Hussein? Did he "instigate" by giving the entire world the middle finger and not abiding by the terms of HIS surrender or were we just bullying him? How about Ossamah? Is he sitting in some cave praying to Allah about world peace and harmony or he and his followers plotting how to KILL all of us? "Instigate"????? I think you need to look up the definition to that.





1. BUREAU OF ECONOMIC ANALYSIS (geez...i guess it's not that republicans don't understand, you just DON'T KNOW).
2008 Q1 +.9%
2008 Q2 +3.3%

Show me figures at the end of the year. Look up figures every year right after tax season. Let's see how that pans out.


2. lol, dude...the money had nothing to do with INVESTING IT, it was solely the purpose of spending it. the idea was for 100% of the people to spend it, in order to do what.....STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.

Then why not give everyone $6000 instead of $600?


3. FEMA checks...how about you give me some numbers this time on the amount of drugs, furs, and jewelry were purchased, then i'll follow you onto this one.

I guess Republicans aren't the only ones that "don't know", huh? This was common knowledge and even prosecuted just a few short years ago when the fiasco happened.




no, i'm not his speech writer...but i do understand DEFINITIONS. dude can call it what he wants, but it's not that....but whatever, that's neither here nor there. want more OFFICIAL numbers? these come from THE CENSUS BUREAU.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthins/hlthin07/hlthfigs07.html
click on "FIGURE 6." i want you to look closely at the dates bush senior was in office, then clinton, then junior. look closely at the unisured percentages from the begining of each of their terms, to the end, and tell me YOU don't see a trend.

I didn't say it, nor did you. Obama said it. So don't try and back pedal out of it now. He's always wanted nationalized health care. It's common knowledge.



dude...mccain wants to REDUCE taxes, and still pay for stuff WE CAN'T AFFORD. it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

Much like how Obama is going to make all these "changes" without accounting for funding. Tit for tat. It's politics 101. Over promise and under deliver.


you know what's funny though...obama and mccain have similiar plans on dealing with immigration, and yet you're still arguing how OBAMA's idea is the one that wrong. actually...their plans are EXACTLY THE SAME...something i just learned after doing a little more research on YOUR CANDIDATE.

Show me where I said that I agreed with Mccain 100%. I certainly don't.




by the way....where did "Allah Akbar" get his weapons from in the first place? as a matter of fact...whose daddy gave them to him? i guess they were decent enough people to sit down with, and sell guns to at some point...right?

I guess you've never had a friend backstab you, huh? Well that's exactly what happened when we supplied our "allies" weapons and then they suddenly turned on us. How's that our fault? Does Obama have some kind of magic crystal ball that's going to avoid this? Show me where.

jwrape
09-04-2008, 07:45 AM
This thread is petty.

Jaimecbr900
09-04-2008, 08:01 AM
This thread is petty.

That's what the big red X at the top right is for. :rolleyes:

stephen
09-04-2008, 09:51 AM
So you "understand" it, yet disagree with it. Got it. :rolleyes:

why is that so impossible...to understand someone's logic, but still feel like they're going about it wrong???


You justified it with all your facts and figures about the black youth death rate.

and here lies the problem; the BIGGEST "NOBAMA" problem...i made ONE reference to black youth death rate, and why he's able to pull "certain" black voters, and now i've given you ALL THESE BLACK FIGURES...lol, nevermind the fact that i told you he wants to provide EVERYONE with better LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. i should've just said, "i'm making a valid point! here's a straw...grab it! QUICK!"




So Clinton DIDN'T have Ossamah in his sights and DECLINED to kill him???? You need to do better research instead of buying into your party line's idea to blame the Republicans. He DID have Ossamah in his sights....CONFIRMED...but he decided, all by himself, that it was NOT prudent to take him out because what???? There was the son of an important person in the tent with him....probably plotting to kill you and me both. Great decision there, huh? So yes, 9-11 could have possibly been avoided had CLINTON.....a DEMOCRAT.....had the nads to quit being PC and take out a major "threat" then, which turned out to be a REAL threat now.

ok, i get it...so SADDAM IS TO BLAME FOR 9-11 AND WE DIDN'T KILL HIM FOR PAST WAR CRIMES AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE...alright, it's making sense :rolleyes:


Instigate? Really? How about Hussein? Did he "instigate" by giving the entire world the middle finger and not abiding by the terms of HIS surrender or were we just bullying him? How about Ossamah? Is he sitting in some cave praying to Allah about world peace and harmony or he and his followers plotting how to KILL all of us? "Instigate"????? I think you need to look up the definition to that.

you're right...instigate was a bad choice of words, i can admit that...hardheaded like Palin's daughter is more like it (he didn't listen to daddy). how many service members did we lose to kill ONE MAN??? you know as much as i know, politics is more than just you, me, and the american people. dude, EVEN ROCKEFELLER admitted to sitting down and having a conversation with bin laden 20 years ago...and who was president and vice president then??? REAGAN AND BUSH SR. i'm sure bin laden didn't wake up in 2001 and say "well...i think i'm going to become an extremist today." talk about having someone in your sights...lol





Show me figures at the end of the year. Look up figures every year right after tax season. Let's see how that pans out.


damn man...i looked it up, explained it to you, and even gave you the SOURCE to educate yourself, and all you can tell me is "look up figures..."
lol, at the end of the year it'll be TOO LATE. besides...it was named "ECONOMIC STIMULUS" for a reason, that should explain enough for you right there.


Then why not give everyone $6000 instead of $600?

ask our fearless leader...i can't answer that for you. if you took the time to read the article i pointed you to, you'd see that the dems actually requested a second stimulus check be issued...bush felt like it did enough and wasn't necessary...meanwhile THE COUNTRY is still in debt.


I guess Republicans aren't the only ones that "don't know", huh? This was common knowledge and even prosecuted just a few short years ago when the fiasco happened.

i never said i didn't know...i told you to prove it. show me figures of the people that blew that money vs. the people that did what they were supposed to do with it. of course the negative is going to stand out...

OH, and for the record...FEMA check recipients weren't the only ones to waste money. how much of the disaster area did the government actually rebuild? how about their plans to get rid of low income/affordable housing and replace them with lavish, high income neighborhoods, country clubs, and casinos.




I didn't say it, nor did you. Obama said it. So don't try and back pedal out of it now. He's always wanted nationalized health care. It's common knowledge.

lol, i'm not back pedaling...my stance has stood the same...i can't explain it to you any better...i'm sorry.




Much like how Obama is going to make all these "changes" without accounting for funding. Tit for tat. It's politics 101. Over promise and under deliver.

he's accounting for it...you just don't like it!


Show me where I said that I agreed with Mccain 100%. I certainly don't.

are you going to vote for him? if so, show me why you think he's worth putting in charge of this country.




I guess you've never had a friend backstab you, huh? Well that's exactly what happened when we supplied our "allies" weapons and then they suddenly turned on us. How's that our fault? Does Obama have some kind of magic crystal ball that's going to avoid this? Show me where.

there's a difference between having a FRIEND backstab you, versus putting trust in an ENEMY. lol, how's that our fault...are you serious? well who's fault is it??? like i said before, we knew who these people were LOOONG BEFORE 9/11, and they were always the same people. the only difference was we had a common enemy...RUSSIA...that didn't make us friends. that's like saying...i know you're a "stick up" kid, and we have a common enemy...so i give you a gun to protect yourself and possibly get rid of OUR enemy. who's fault is it if you put that same gun in my face 10 years later?

honestly mang, i enjoyed this long a$$ discussion...i actually learned some stuff (like mccain's immigration stance). my whole point was to prove that there are "reasonable" obama supporters out there...far more than you believe. there will never be THE PERFECT president...NEVER. i feel like i've heard/read enough about obama's political agendas, and i'm willing to give him the opportunity improve this country. i hear more about mccain's 5yrs in vietnam, than anything else...it's in EVERY SINGLE SPEECH (given by him and others). there's are times when we need "first to fight" type of presidents, it's just not now...not when we've got so much stuff going on within the country. when i look at the fact a democratic government got us the LARGEST economic surplus IN HISTORY, and 8yrs. later we end up with a $9.5 TRILLION DEBT under a republican government (whose new presidential nominee agreed with atleast 80% of the choices that got us there), the choice just seems simple...lol.

i don't even know what come after 1 trillion....zillion maybe.

ShooterMcGavin
09-04-2008, 10:47 AM
damn this is getting heated like the presidential candidate debate...

Jaimecbr900
09-04-2008, 12:15 PM
why is that so impossible...to understand someone's logic, but still feel like they're going about it wrong???

Ok, I'll concede. I understand what you're saying now. :goodjob:




and here lies the problem; the BIGGEST "NOBAMA" problem...i made ONE reference to black youth death rate, and why he's able to pull "certain" black voters, and now i've given you ALL THESE BLACK FIGURES...lol, nevermind the fact that i told you he wants to provide EVERYONE with better LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. i should've just said, "i'm making a valid point! here's a straw...grab it! QUICK!"

The problem is not a color one. It is a problem of disarmament. If you don't fight criminals on various fronts, i.e. laws/jail time/law enforcement/AND the threat of getting shot and killed by law abiding citizens, then you will never be successful at "solving" the problem. We know that jails are over crowded. We know law enforcement is over taxed. So what's left? Think about it. It's been shown a thousand times in a hundred studies that criminals fear getting shot by far and away MORE than even jail time. Then why take away THE biggest deterrent? He needs to realize that.




ok, i get it...so SADDAM IS TO BLAME FOR 9-11 AND WE DIDN'T KILL HIM FOR PAST WAR CRIMES AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE...alright, it's making sense :rolleyes:

Are you purposely over looking what I really typed? :thinking:

I clearly said OSSAMAH is to blame for 9-11 and CLINTON had OSSAMAH in his cross hairs way before 9-11 and CHOSE NOT TO kill him. Saddam got his because of his arrogance in not abiding with the terms of his own surrender treaty. Two different people, two different reasons.




you're right...instigate was a bad choice of words, i can admit that...hardheaded like Palin's daughter is more like it (he didn't listen to daddy). how many service members did we lose to kill ONE MAN??? you know as much as i know, politics is more than just you, me, and the american people. dude, EVEN ROCKEFELLER admitted to sitting down and having a conversation with bin laden 20 years ago...and who was president and vice president then??? REAGAN AND BUSH SR. i'm sure bin laden didn't wake up in 2001 and say "well...i think i'm going to become an extremist today." talk about having someone in your sights...lol

Hence the reason why "sitting down to pacify" is a bad idea all the way around.





damn man...i looked it up, explained it to you, and even gave you the SOURCE to educate yourself, and all you can tell me is "look up figures..."
lol, at the end of the year it'll be TOO LATE. besides...it was named "ECONOMIC STIMULUS" for a reason, that should explain enough for you right there.

You didn't get it. Show me figures at the end of the year where all 4 quarters are there to see a true pattern. Just because there's a "sale" on eggs today doesn't mean that over the last few years their price hasn't actually gone UP, does it? Same thing here. Just because there was an increase in the GDP between two quarters doesn't mean that it will REMAIN at the end of the year. That's my point.




ask our fearless leader...i can't answer that for you. if you took the time to read the article i pointed you to, you'd see that the dems actually requested a second stimulus check be issued...bush felt like it did enough and wasn't necessary...meanwhile THE COUNTRY is still in debt.

GDP has nothing to do with national debt, right? :thinking:




i never said i didn't know...i told you to prove it. show me figures of the people that blew that money vs. the people that did what they were supposed to do with it. of course the negative is going to stand out...

OH, and for the record...FEMA check recipients weren't the only ones to waste money. how much of the disaster area did the government actually rebuild? how about their plans to get rid of low income/affordable housing and replace them with lavish, high income neighborhoods, country clubs, and casinos.

I will dig up some articles about this.

As for rebuilding.....do you want them to re-build 60 yr old houses with 60 yr old houses???? :thinking: You can't do that, right? So what's wrong with re-building something old with something new and probably better?

The Creeper
09-04-2008, 05:45 PM
There is no logic in his views on gun control. You realize criminals cant legally own a gun in america, and obviously they do anyways, so cracking down on gun control is not going to stop crime at all. Really I think we should make our laws more strict if you break the ones of violent importance. If you murder someone, you should get death penalty, period. So many people are against that though because they know our court systems are corrupt and ****ty anyways. If you attempt to murder someone, death penalty. We spend too much money supporting criminals in prison that will never change, so that would reduce taxes if we had less jails/prisoners, death penalty can help take care of some. I also think any rapist should get death penalty as well. Gang membership to violent gangs should result in death as well. I guess all i want is more killing and less imprisoning for people who have done a highly violent or terrible offense. End RANT. Proceed with the argument.

stephen
09-05-2008, 07:22 PM
Ok, I'll concede. I understand what you're saying now. :goodjob:

lol, atleast we agree on something! :goodjob:




The problem is not a color one. It is a problem of disarmament. If you don't fight criminals on various fronts, i.e. laws/jail time/law enforcement/AND the threat of getting shot and killed by law abiding citizens, then you will never be successful at "solving" the problem. We know that jails are over crowded. We know law enforcement is over taxed. So what's left? Think about it. It's been shown a thousand times in a hundred studies that criminals fear getting shot by far and away MORE than even jail time. Then why take away THE biggest deterrent? He needs to realize that.


i agree, that's very true. the issue of crime is something that's hard to take on, and definitely not something that should be left ONLY in the hands of ANY PRESIDENT. our local government needs to do a better job also. not to mention, our ridiculous unemployment rate (which has just seen another INCREASE), and poor economy don't help the crime situation ('Fun With Di.ck and Jane' is a perfect example). the government can do all it wants to punish criminals, but you have to attack some of the root issues. there are SO MANY factors that influence crime, so there can never be a cut and dry solution, but you still have to start somewhere. crime is an issue where regardless of who's president, they're going to have to reach across party and government lines to fight it together.


Are you purposely over looking what I really typed? :thinking:

I clearly said OSSAMAH is to blame for 9-11 and CLINTON had OSSAMAH in his cross hairs way before 9-11 and CHOSE NOT TO kill him. Saddam got his because of his arrogance in not abiding with the terms of his own surrender treaty. Two different people, two different reasons.


no, i understand what you said..and yes, maybe clinton should have taken him out. the only point i was making was that he wasn't the only one to not take him out. bottom line...our government saw saddam as being "beneficial." if you talk to some older military guys, they'll tell you that we had saddam on more than one occasion, even when bush sr. was in office.



Hence the reason why "sitting down to pacify" is a bad idea all the way around.


the sit down and talk idea is strictly politics. we OBVIOUSLY can't afford to stick our guns in EVERYONE'S face...it's just impossible. we need to focus more on DEFENSIVE operations, as opposed to drawing the first gun. sometimes the best offense is a good defense...right? obama has a LOT of homeland security type policies, that'll benefit us far more than squeezing the trigger. you said it yourself...criminals are far more afraid of someone defending themselves than punishment. i highly doubt obama is going to sit down and hold hands with terrorist. i can see him saying, "look, i really don't have the time to kill every last one of you...and you know i can. just chill out, and we'll all be cool."




You didn't get it. Show me figures at the end of the year where all 4 quarters are there to see a true pattern. Just because there's a "sale" on eggs today doesn't mean that over the last few years their price hasn't actually gone UP, does it? Same thing here. Just because there was an increase in the GDP between two quarters doesn't mean that it will REMAIN at the end of the year. That's my point.


EXACTLY! the point is WHAT CHANGED THE GDP? providing WORKING families under a $75k salary with a tax break. if you continue THOSE TYPES of trends, now giving those breaks to WORKING families under $250k, what do you think the outcome will be? if the MAJORITY of people can't even afford the "sale" on eggs, then who's going to buy them (regardless of the price trend)?

if you reduce EVERYONE'S income taxes, then where do you think they'll get the money for this trillion dollar debt? they'll tax our goods harder...right? when milk goes to $20 a gallon, then what? you finally end up with sh.it like a STRONG black market, which is FAR MORE DETRIMENTAL than taxing a few rich folks.

ZIMBABWE is a prime example of this. my aunt went there for a year, and this is exactly how their economy is. a loaf of bread is the same amount as some people's paychecks.



GDP has nothing to do with national debt, right? :thinking:


actually, it does. GDP is the value of goods produced domestically. we're spending more money than we make, and that's the problem...DEBT.

GDP = consumption (citizens) + investment + spending (government) + (exports-imports)

consumption - the amount of money WE spend on domestic goods
investment - money invested in our goods (private and public)
spending - what the government spends (including MILITARY SPENDING)
exports/imports - self explanatory





I will dig up some articles about this.

As for rebuilding.....do you want them to re-build 60 yr old houses with 60 yr old houses???? :thinking: You can't do that, right? So what's wrong with re-building something old with something new and probably better?

the logic behind that is fine. the problem is, they're not creating AFFORDABLE housing. what happens to the people who can't afford these new "lavish" properties? these people didn't ask for their $50k 60yr old home to be destroyed (by a storm...not bush lol), and now replaced by a $200k 3 month old home that they can't afford.

regardless, i understand your point...people are going to take advantage of the government. the government is also going to take advantage of the people though. it's a never ending battle...but in the end, you can't forget about the people who do the right thing, and the effect they have on our nation...political figures and citizens alike.

man
09-07-2008, 05:39 PM
Then why hold Obama accountable for his pastor? Of whom he has even less control over.

Never did. I'll never hold anyone responsible for anything other than what he/she does. You complain about people talking about Obama's pastor and then turn around and do the exact same thing for Palin??? Talk about hypocrisy...

tony
09-07-2008, 06:17 PM
Never did. I'll never hold anyone responsible for anything other than what he/she does. You complain about people talking about Obama's pastor and then turn around and do the exact same thing for Palin??? Talk about hypocrisy...

Big difference there, Obama isn't bringing an unwed pregnant teenager into the whitehouse, that is what I have issues with.

man
09-07-2008, 07:52 PM
Big difference there, Obama isn't bringing an unwed pregnant teenager into the whitehouse, that is what I have issues with.

But how is it Palin's fault? Are you trying to tell me you never had premarital sex? Parents can't control everything their children do. Welcome to the real world, where everyone makes mistakes.

tony
09-07-2008, 07:57 PM
But how is it Palin's fault? Are you trying to tell me you never had premarital sex? Parents can't control everything their children do. Welcome to the real world, where everyone makes mistakes.

Everyone does but elected officials are held to a higher standard. Everyone cheats but Clinton was almost impeached for his affair correct? Palin should have better control over her household and instill higher standards in her children if she plans to be in the whitehouse.

Again, unwed pregnant teenager in the whitehouse under any capacity is lowering our expectations of those we elect. I would say the same for Obama.

eraser4g63
09-07-2008, 08:10 PM
1= last democrat we had in office showed america some of the best economic times history,

2= people keep running their mouths about obamas lack of exp dude graduated from best law school in the country and practiced/taught constitutional law. biden is the best out of all 4.

3=most republicans are planning on voting republican on principle not on reality. everyone knows we are in the sh!t and republicans have been at the for front of this for the past 8 years.

Couple of points I would like to clear up,
1= people need to wake up and realize that the economy goes up and down, kind of like a roller coaster or the ocean. It is a constant thing and it doesn't matter who is voted into office, it will continue.

2= he was an assistant professor and helped in the class. Oh yeah, if I am not mistaken he also has never written a bill or very few bills. Mostly other people donate their laws and bills to his cause.

3-Most people are not voting republican to vote republican. Actually there are about a third of the voters that swing both ways depending on what the flavor of the week is. It sounds to me like you are voting democrat to vote democrat. I believe that is the definition of the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not sayin I'm just sayin.

man
09-07-2008, 08:28 PM
Everyone does but elected officials are held to a higher standard. Everyone cheats but Clinton was almost impeached for his affair correct? Palin should have better control over her household and instill higher standards in her children if she plans to be in the whitehouse.

Again, unwed pregnant teenager in the whitehouse under any capacity is lowering our expectations of those we elect. I would say the same for Obama.

Clinton cheated, not his children. And who says it won't happen to Obama, his children are very young atm... Personal attacks have NO business in politics. These are Govt. officials, not babysitters. Teenage girls will be teenage girls. No matter how well you bring them up you can't control their every action, and doing so would be worse parenting than letting them make their own mistakes.

4dmin
09-08-2008, 08:09 AM
Couple of points I would like to clear up,
1= people need to wake up and realize that the economy goes up and down, kind of like a roller coaster or the ocean. It is a constant thing and it doesn't matter who is voted into office, it will continue.

2= he was an assistant professor and helped in the class. Oh yeah, if I am not mistaken he also has never written a bill or very few bills. Mostly other people donate their laws and bills to his cause.

3-Most people are not voting republican to vote republican. Actually there are about a third of the voters that swing both ways depending on what the flavor of the week is. It sounds to me like you are voting democrat to vote democrat. I believe that is the definition of the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not sayin I'm just sayin.

1= this is true but at this rate there isn't going to be an up turn for a while... i'm not sure how long you would like this slump to go for, but mccain himself has called the current administration a failure. considering his voting record i don't think putting another republican in office is the answer.

2= he did plenty of work in Illinois - mccain has been in politics what 30 years... what do you expect from a guy in his 70's? either way mccain is out of touch w/ our generation he is not focused on our future.

3= that is just a dumb statement to begin with. republicans know bush is a failure yet they think putting another republican in office will help? ya i'm sure they've totatly researched both canidates and weighed the odds. :rolleyes: 2nd i'm registered as libertarian but there is not value in voting anything but democrat at this point - until we start to see debates w/ other partys. I would of voted Ron Paul before both of them.