How do you see, God?

[Maniacc]

So after falling asleep and being awakened by some strange dream. I started thinking, and thinking, and thinking... Many people usually picture God as a man figure looking down on you. Protecting you and always watching closely at your mistakes or troubled times. Well, as an atheist, I know that when I see a beautiful sunrise or a gorgeous mountain scenery, I get the same feelings as a religious person. The religious person just puts the label of "God" onto the beauty whereas I appreciate it for what it is.

Anyone else feel this way?

ETA: Comments are more than welcomed, no trollin' from me will be done in this thread.

[Benefit]

your wrong, close thread.

[Frög]

The way I see religion is different.. I am roman catholic and proud.. I respect all religion and those without, as a logical person who understands the factual side of this discussion.. I see it many different ways, but mainly as a group, for a common societal good and individual spiritual support.. Lets face it, that there is an actual "God" is everything but provable.. Regardless, it is something that some people need to help them carry on their lives.. Often the sick, the depressed, who without religion and "God" would probably not be here.. The spiritual support a sick person needs, because just believing in "God" and his power in keeping one's mind healthy could be "it" itself.. Because at the end of the day, the real truth remains that there is: No Body Without Mind..

This comes from my heart, I just went through a tough phase of my life, where I could of easily lost my mind.. Though I've never always been a religious person, and my feelings toward "God" have not always been like this, I found myself praying every minute.. Regardless whether "God" exists or not, HE WAS THERE FOR ME..

God Bless..

[C-loS109]

your wrong, close thread.


wow u seem to have a huge level of ignorance. its what the believes and ur not respecting that. and by doing so u just made urself look like a dumb ignorant person.

i have a saying in this topic but im not saying anything. ill keep my believes to myself.

but if u believe in something and somebody else believes in something else, is their problem not yours.

[stillaneon]

wow u seem to have a huge level of ignorance. its what the believes and ur not respecting that. and by doing so u just made urself look like a dumb ignorant person.

i have a saying in this topic but im not saying anything. ill keep my believes to myself.

but if u believe in something and somebody else believes in something else, is their problem not yours.

X2

Thats probably the most ignorant thing I have heard Benefit say.

I'm glad your faith is strong enough that you can have no doubts in what you believe but that doesnt make you God. Judgemental comments like that pretty much go against the core values of your beliefs.

[quickdodge®]

How do you see, God?

The comma after see isn't needed, lolol.

But seriously, I pretty much feel the same as you. When we go to the house on St. Simon's Island, and I wake up in the morning, I see a sunrise over the ocean like no other. And I know inside that I pretty much believe in God or something of that nature, but He isn't the first thing I think of when I see that sunrise. In fact, I don't even think I think of God at all for that. I just think that this is beautiful and that it can't get any better. Later, QD.

[hydroshutter]

You don't, he doesn't exist.

[osnap]

...As a broad representative figurehead spawned from the institutionalized population control tool known as organized religion. God is whatever you want God to be... or whatever your religion of choice has decided over the centuries that they want you to think, anyways. The fact of the matter is NOBODY, no matter how much they might want to convince you otherwise, knows for sure. Hell, "knows for sure" may not even be appropriate - no one really has the faintest clue, aside from those who allow blind faith to convince themselves that they do.

[Benefit]

ignorant, yes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

[Benefit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

[EJ25RUN]

i see him on GP Sundays.

Say it with me Now "ROSSIGOD"

http://www.carzi.com/wp-content/uploads/223655_valentinorossiwithhisassistantucciointhefia tyamahabox-1280x960-jun1preview_big.jpg

[EJ25RUN]

On the real though,

What are you trying to accomplish with this thread exactly? Turn people atheist? Cause you won't. Lets just for the sake of argument imagine i was an atheist, i wouldn't come on a forum throwing this out there. Seriously, religion is something you, nor i, nor anyone on this earth can judge. Why? Because it is a spiritual belief between one person and what overhead body they choose to believe. I am not a Christian. I am actually an admitted terrible Jew. I have not stepped foot in a synagogue for 10 years and i don't really celebrate any of the holidays. But i still hold a relationship with my "God". This belief of mine you have chosen to judge makes me a better man. Other Jews might not think so but that is something the constitution lets me have. A freedom of religion. Something a lot of other countries don't. And it comes back to you. Your are allowed by law to worship or not worship what ever you choose unless you are committing a federal crime like murder, rape, or anything else certain religious groups think they can get away with because "god said so". Again, religion has made a lot of good in history and a lot of bad. But for a lot of people it gives life meaning and you can't just take that away from them. So, just end it and worry about yourself, unless religion hurts you directly, let everyone else live their life as they choose.

[alpine_aw11]

I've excepted that neither I nor anyone I've ever met can truly have any answers, so I dont try and picture God to be anything. You can believe what you will, but personally I think trying to accept any form of belief, whether it be atheist or organized religions, is ignorant in its own right. I can pretty much say I have no beliefs on the matter, as nothing relating to our origins has ever been proven. I understand that people use it as a means of feeling comforted, and that's why believing in God/religion has a very important purpose in the world. However, it also has caused terrible things and millions of deaths, so I dont associate myself with anything. So I guess you could say I place the Earth we live on, its people, and nature as the most important aspects to think of.

[osnap]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to alpine_xj again.

[Maniacc]

lmaonade, seems like a lot of you completely dodged my question and automatically assumed I started this thread to have another Religion debate. If I really wanted to, I could quote everyone one of you and completely throw tons of counter-posts back at you. Yet this would cause a battle between me and the religion members of IA. And to be honest, I really don't want that.

Because I've been in threads in my other forum that had discussions go on for days! With smart intellectuals, not some high school children. Who often get upset whenever they're faced with hardcore facts that their only retort to it would be, "faith." Faith is just an excuse used when you refuse to know the truth. I'll ask the question again. How do you see "God?" Or higher being, or whatever you want to call it. My first post had all the information needed to answer the question. How did some of you totally miss it?

[alpine_aw11]

I answered your question, just added why I believe what I do. Better to give an explanation that not give one at all.

[Maniacc]

Which is why I didn't say "all" of you, and instead said "some."

[ueyedgr8tness]

On the real though,

What are you trying to accomplish with this thread exactly? Turn people atheist? Cause you won't. Lets just for the sake of argument imagine i was an atheist, i wouldn't come on a forum throwing this out there. Seriously, religion is something you, nor i, nor anyone on this earth can judge. Why? Because it is a spiritual belief between one person and what overhead body they choose to believe. I am not a Christian. I am actually an admitted terrible Jew. I have not stepped foot in a synagogue for 10 years and i don't really celebrate any of the holidays. But i still hold a relationship with my "God". This belief of mine you have chosen to judge makes me a better man. Other Jews might not think so but that is something the constitution lets me have. A freedom of religion. Something a lot of other countries don't. And it comes back to you. Your are allowed by law to worship or not worship what ever you choose unless you are committing a federal crime like murder, rape, or anything else certain religious groups think they can get away with because "god said so". Again, religion has made a lot of good in history and a lot of bad. But for a lot of people it gives life meaning and you can't just take that away from them. So, just end it and worry about yourself, unless religion hurts you directly, let everyone else live their life as they choose.

have some good points in here bro:goodjob:




BUt I love god and i am about to give u guy's a verse out the KJV that was written yr's ago and u tell me if it is not coming to past right now. IF the bible is wrong and there is no GOD or Jesus then why is the bible so true?

[alpine_aw11]

You might want to get your flame suit on...

[ueyedgr8tness]

Mark 13 >> I shall put some ( ) marks where parts that is going on right now
King James Bible

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7 (And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars), be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 (For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places), and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.


http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0768999.html
now look the word up famines..

U can't tell me that we have not been having trouble with drought here lately with record breaking season and them talking about us running out of fuel,and u mean u can't tell me that were not at war with other country's right now?? the bible say's end the end "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" so how would guy's way back then would no what was gonna happen if they where not led by something so great?

What has atheist done to come closer to getting it right more than the guy's who wrote the word that USA was founded on?

I don't want to hear u guy's beat around the bush and i got my flame suit on,i open to every religion.But this 1 seems to be the only 1 that has got it right so i must believe in something way greater than atheist considering they said we come from monkey's and we don't look nothing like monkey's:thinking:

[alpine_aw11]

The Bible's extremely broad predictions which also lack any specification of the times they will occur do nothing to prove it right. I take it you dont have too much experience with researching the beliefs of other religions? There are literally hundreds of ways to prove the Bible is nothing more than a fictional narrative but this isn't the thread to do it in...

And you also completely missed the point of the thread.

[ueyedgr8tness]

The Bible's extremely broad predictions which also lack any specification of the times they will occur do nothing to prove it right. I take it you dont have too much experience with researching the beliefs of other religions? There are literally hundreds of ways to prove the Bible is nothing more than a fictional narrative but this isn't the thread to do it in...

And you also completely missed the point of the thread.


well the point of the thread was to try to get ppl to believe what he does,Thats why i did what i did:goodjob: and just incase u didn't realize everything the bible said in those 2 verses all our happen right now,not matter if the bible had a time line or not.The fact is all the things it said would happen at the same time ,just seem to be doing just that. And trust me i have done study on king james and i do understand what your saying.BUt i could anything prove the bible wrong when were findout here lately that alot of it is right.I just choose to believe in something that has proved itself over time and time again.


P.s on the real this thread has been made to many times about religion and athiest and w/e else bs ppl might want to believe.I really think this is a topic where no 1 gets anywhere so u just leave it alone,and as long as some 1 is happy with what they believe then just repsect them for it:goodjob:

[alpine_aw11]

Fair enough. I could go on all night but you're right, it is pretty much pointless in the end.

[quickdodge®]

l If I really wanted to, I could quote everyone one of you and completely throw tons of counter-posts back at you.


Which is why I didn't say "all" of you, and instead said "some."

I beg to differ, lolol. Later, QD.

[Maniacc]

well the point of the thread was to try to get ppl to believe what he does,Thats why i did what i did
You seriously need to drop your religion guard for a minute and just read. I'm not trying to convert anyone to atheism. I don't have a problem with people believing in religion- even though I do like getting into it with them. I honestly didn't ready your posts, other than this small peice.

[Maniacc]

I beg to differ, lolol. Later, QD.
lmaonade, you apparently seem to enjoy doing that. I'll get you one day watch.

[man]

Yet this would cause a battle between me and the religion members of IA. And to be honest, I really don't want that.

You realize atheism is a religion...

[ShooterMcGavin]

atheism is not a religion, it's the absence of religion in fact...

[man]

atheism is not a religion, it's the absence of religion in fact...

Atheism, by definition, is the active belief that there is no god. It is therefor a belief system and thus, again by definition, a religion. Most "atheists" have no idea what atheism really is and join simply as a rebellious statement, when in fact they prove themselves to be the most ignorant (and most closed-minded) religious fanatics of them all.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Atheism, by definition, is the active belief that there is no god. It is therefor a belief system and thus, again by definition, a religion. Most "atheists" have no idea what atheism really is and join simply as a rebellious statement, when in fact they prove themselves to be the most ignorant (and most closed-minded) religious fanatics of them all.
funny, maybe you ought to go school those at atheists.org then, since you know more about atheism than they do...

http://www.atheists.org/faqs/atheism.html

[AirMax95]

So, I have resisted posting in this thread due to my belief that religion and one's relationship with God is personal. Although Friday, while at the mall, I saw a rather wierd looking fellow with the below shirt on....Needless to say, my heart dropped and I was VERY OFFENDED, saddened, and confused.

/rant

http://www.invasionrock.com/images/bad%20religion.jpg

[man]

funny, maybe you ought to go school those at atheists.org then, since you know more about atheism than they do...

http://www.atheists.org/faqs/atheism.html

Sorry, the site did nothing for me other than reaffirming my opinions.

Explain to me how this site differs from sites of other religions...

Funny how someone can play with words to make you BELIEVE that you BELIEVE in nothing... :thinking:
Also funny how only an atheist website would say they are not a religion/belief system.

[Maniacc]

Atheism, by definition, is the active belief that there is no god. It is therefor a belief system and thus, again by definition, a religion. Most "atheists" have no idea what atheism really is and join simply as a rebellious statement, when in fact they prove themselves to be the most ignorant (and most closed-minded) religious fanatics of them all.
For some strange reason, many people keep getting the idea that atheism is itself some sort of religion. Maybe it is because these people are so caught up in their own religious beliefs that they cannot imagine any person living without religion of some sort. Maybe it is due to some persistent misunderstanding of what atheism is. And maybe they just don't care that what they are saying really doesn't make any sense.

Most atheists do not "believe" that god does not exist. Rather, they dismiss it as a possibility due to a complete lack of evidence. Otherwise, they'd have to entertain the possibility of believing in anything and everything - which is the essential problem of agnosticism. Therefore, it does not take faith to be an atheist. If the evidence changes, then most would certainly be reasonable enough to revaluate their positions. Until then, the existence of god is simply a non-issue for them. In theory, the latter is a special case of the former. Believing X against some evidence is believing without evidence that the evidence [against] X is insufficient. Understand?

All religions have rules or certain beliefs. Lets compare them real quick:

- Does atheism have anything approaching "clearly defined rules?" Not in the least. There is only one "rule," and that is the rule of the definition of "atheism" - not having any belief in any gods.

- Does atheism have an "eschatology?" Eschatology is a "belief about the end of the world or the last things." Now, I'm sure that many atheists have some sort of beliefs about how the world might end, but those beliefs sure aren't clearly defined or uniform among all of us. In fact, any beliefs about the end of the world are accidental - that is to say, they are not a necessary part of atheism. There is absolutely, positively nothing inherent in the disbelief in gods that leads one to any opinions about the end of the world. Quite the opposite of how 'eschatology' is treated in a religion.

- Does atheism contain "a philosophy by which to live?" Atheists certainly have philosophies by which they live. Are they the same as religion ones? Highly doubt it.

As a side note, the easiest way to shut atheists up is to run them over with a tank.
Assuming you already have a tank and all the necessary tank stuff, and a place filled with self identified atheists.

[Maniacc]

You realize atheism is a religion...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yV1SJaKDzY This video raises an interesting question. If God does not discriminate, and God is unchanging, why are we required to believe without proof when people of the biblical era were not?

[ShooterMcGavin]

Sorry, the site did nothing for me other than reaffirming my opinions.

Explain to me how this site differs from sites of other religions...

Funny how someone can play with words to make you BELIEVE that you BELIEVE in nothing... :thinking:
Also funny how only an atheist website would say they are not a religion/belief system.
lol wtf? how many other religions argue that they AREN'T a religion?

and you're right, that site probably did nothing for you other than reaffirm YOUR OPINIONS (which clearly isn't shared by those who matter, the atheists themselves).

show me some non atheists sites that give good reasoning behind why atheism is a religion?

[BABY J]

Agreed. It's not a religion.

Carry on w/ the thread.

[Bruce Leroy]

So, I have resisted posting in this thread due to my belief that religion and one's relationship with God is personal. Although Friday, while at the mall, I saw a rather wierd looking fellow with the below shirt on....Needless to say, my heart dropped and I was VERY OFFENDED, saddened, and confused.

/rant

http://www.invasionrock.com/images/bad%20religion.jpg


If i'm not mistaken, bad religion is a band

[Blitanicle99]

To the OP

I may not ever be able to describe what "God" looks like in a picture, but I do see Gods presence in everyday life thus to me... seeing god in action is seeing god in general. Atleast to me.

However, I have also seen the presence of Satan (Evil) in a form of sight, sound, presence.

Seen both personally and am a Christian.

[Maniacc]

To the OP

I may not ever be able to describe what "God" looks like in a picture, but I do see Gods presence in everyday life thus to me... seeing god in action is seeing god in general. Atleast to me.

However, I have also seen the presence of Satan (Evil) in a form of sight, sound, presence.

Seen both personally and am a Christian.
Could you explain to us how you saw 'Evil.' I'm curious to know how it's presense looks.

[4dmin]

i don't believe in god - no gods no masters only man.

http://www.invasionrock.com/images/bad%20religion.jpg

excellent band. you think that is bad you need to see the looks/comments i get when i happen to wear my EYEHATEGOD shirt on sundays :lmfao:

[BABY J]

i don't believe in god - no gods no masters only man.



Wow. You must have like a BRAIN or something in your head - and you must like, USE it or something. Wicked!

[Mchnhead2k5]

To the OP
However, I have also seen the presence of Satan (Evil) in a form of sight, sound, presence.


Yeah going to New York Islanders games and being a fan of the New York Rangers would consider this guy as evil. Seeing him in person would cause you to believe in Satan (he's now a Pittsburgh Penguin)

http://cdn.nhl.com/islanders/bc/images/fanzone/images/wallpaper/MiroslavSatan-800X600.jpg

I just see sunrises as natures wonderful beauty, nothing more, nothing less.

[Ran]

I'm somewhat spiritual I suppose. Some call it agnostic but I'm not sure what label to put on it anymore after other debates. Basically I accept that there may be a God or gods, or some other type of higher power out there somewhere but I don't hold it to heart. Just accept it as a possibility.

That being said, I can see a sunrise and get the same rush of emotion as anyone. Do I attribute it to a God or just the works of nature? I don't think I really consider it as a work of either one at the time. Just accept that it's beautiful and appreciate the view.

However, being a person with a rather negative and pesimistic outlook on life and the world, I do think that if there is a God then I begin to harbor a sense of malice inside myself. Makes you wonder how a loving God or being could stand by and watch a world with infinite possibilities be overrun, destroyed, and dismantled by the atrocity that is mankind.

But that's just me.

[Turbo Terrance]

well.... why dont you die first.... and then when you see him he'll let u know if you're goin to Heaven or Hell...

[Maniacc]

well.... why dont you die first.... and then when you see him he'll let u know if you're goin to Heaven or Hell...
If that were possible I think it would be one of the greatest experiments every conducted. But with our current technology it's just not possible. You'll need some device that could send back data of what's being observed. And I highly doubt we'll have anything of the sort anytime soon. Something that can view another dimension? It would be incredible though - An epic time for science in my opinion.

ETA: And if you were trying to be a smartass with your comment, I'd keep that out of this thread. k

[blackboi50]

been holding my tongue in here........but something tells me this thread will blow up and some feelings will get hurt!!!..........

America is a melting pot and everybody has their owns views/opinions/ WAY OF LIFE!!!!.......there are way to many religions to be talked about!!!!!! and what everybody believes in as god!!!

im just gonna sit back and watch this un-fold

[stephen]

MEEPNORK...you made a reference to religion (or lack thereof) in a previous post, and i've been meaning to discuss this with you a little. believe it or not, your question is a little ambiguous, in the sense that different religions hold different perceptions of God. basically, i feel that the difference amongst different religions is what leads to people developing the athiest mentality. my mother's family is episcopalian, and my father's family is baptist. i grew up going to baptist churches, where God is "the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost." In my belief, Jesus is the only way for God to be depicted as a "man." when i think of God, i don't see a man, mountains, water, aliens, etc....to me, God is much like your reference to "traveling dimensions," something that you feel exist, but man hasn't reached.

you have to understand that the FAITH is what carries us through life. it doesn't matter if it's faith in higher power, or faith in the power of man. the only thing about athiest that bothers me (and i'm glad you haven't gone there yet) is how they taunt religious believers about being hypocrites. in my faith, we learned that man will never be perfect, and Jesus was sacraficed to clense us of our sins. true, there's a good amount of us that take that to another level...yet, and still, man will never be perfect. lol, to be honest with you...although i'm christian, i believe the first REAL "bible" (for lack of a better term), is the Quran (that's a hypocrite right?). scientist have proven that "scientific Adam" originated in the middle east. you might say "well why aren't you muslim?" well, the REAL Quran isn't supposed to be translated, and i only know english and german lol.

when i think of the effects God has on man, i think of things like the design of our bodies. have you thought about how difficult it is to "duplicate" human beings and other living animals? sure, science has touched on cloning, but what about THE FIRST human being... i find it hard to believe that in the Universe...better yet...just on Earth alone...there were tiny cells or whatever that just got together and said "let's create a large ecosystem...some of you will be humans, some will be animals, some will be plants, some will be resources, etc. for those of you that're humans, you'll be at the top of the food chain, and will be responsible for maintaining all of this. you guys ready? IT'S MORPHIN' TIME!"

[Maniacc]

MEEPNORK...you made a reference to religion (or lack thereof) in a previous post, and i've been meaning to discuss this with you a little. believe it or not, your question is a little ambiguous, in the sense that different religions hold different perceptions of God. basically, i feel that the difference amongst different religions is what leads to people developing the athiest mentality. my mother's family is episcopalian, and my father's family is baptist. i grew up going to baptist churches, where God is "the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost." In my belief, Jesus is the only way for God to be depicted as a "man." when i think of God, i don't see a man, mountains, water, aliens, etc....to me, God is much like your reference to "traveling dimensions," something that you feel exist, but man hasn't reached.
Interesting. Thanks for PMing me back to this thread. Now lets get started:

You're saying that you pretty much think atheism or atheist exist because of so many religions? That we go from a religous mentality to an atheist one? Haven't heard that one before. I have no problem with people believing in something, me being the way I am. Give's me the opportunity to seek greater knowledge when other's who believe in religion who refuse to believe and would much rather ignore. You're Baptist. Well, so is my mom. So I pretty much know what you guys believe in and how you guys view "God."

From my understanding there are three spirits. God, Jesus and like you said the Holy Ghost. I honestly don't understand this whole concept. Why must there be three? I also had some Baptist people come to my house one day and all three of us sat down and had a very nice talk about me and my stand on religion. I asked questions and they tried to respond. I made some good points, they made some good points.

You seeing "God" as how someone would see if they were going through a time warp could be cause because of your eyesight. Like when you wake up and can't see real clear. Everything turns fuzzy. Maybe? From talks with my mother she's told me that she's never seen God but she's felt him. Through heat - increase in body temp. could happen from so many things. Muscles tensing up, inner body phenomena, ect.


you have to understand that the FAITH is what carries us through life. it doesn't matter if it's faith in higher power, or faith in the power of man. the only thing about athiest that bothers me (and i'm glad you haven't gone there yet) is how they taunt religious believers about being hypocrites. in my faith, we learned that man will never be perfect, and Jesus was sacraficed to clense us of our sins. true, there's a good amount of us that take that to another level...yet, and still, man will never be perfect. lol, to be honest with you...although i'm christian, i believe the first REAL "bible" (for lack of a better term), is the Quran (that's a hypocrite right?). scientist have proven that "scientific Adam" originated in the middle east. you might say "well why aren't you muslim?" well, the REAL Quran isn't supposed to be translated, and i only know english and german lol.
To you "faith" is that, but to me it's something else. An absence of faith is not a faith. I have enough faith to believe that theology, especially Abrahamic theology, is merely the refuge of the mentally handicapped. I can't prove that they are all handicapped, but I have faith that they are.

I also live only to live life and all the things it has to offer. Why have faith in something that's going to happen after you experience death? The Qur'an I think could be one of the few books that are closer to the religion truth than anything else. Yes, because it's from the country where this whole tale supposedly started from. I've never read it, so I have no idea what's in it. But I do know of it's origin.


when i think of the effects God has on man, i think of things like the design of our bodies. have you thought about how difficult it is to "duplicate" human beings and other living animals? sure, science has touched on cloning, but what about THE FIRST human being... i find it hard to believe that in the Universe...better yet...just on Earth alone...there were tiny cells or whatever that just got together and said "let's create a large ecosystem...some of you will be humans, some will be animals, some will be plants, some will be resources, etc. for those of you that're humans, you'll be at the top of the food chain, and will be responsible for maintaining all of this. you guys ready? IT'S MORPHIN' TIME!"
You have to take a trip to reality to understand that our body's aren't as difficult to duplicate as you may think. We already know how our systems work and what kind of components we're made off. All we're stuck on, is how our brain works. Since it's a very sensitive organ and full of billions of cells. We're getting closer to understanding it though, thanks to science.

Having a sense that we're the final product and that they're is nothing else out there other than ourselves is foolish. We're not alone - and this has already been proven. To understand how life began, again, you'll have to take a trip to reality. First you have to understand what we're exactly made of. Our composition. Of course you have people believing we're made of magical minerals that's only found here, on planet Earth. Well, when you look at it through a set of well educated eyes you come to realize that not everything can be that simple. The origin of 'humans' would clearly take us back millions of years. Mutation, evolution, time. There are tons of factors that played a roll. You may throw the 'how do you know' comment but here's an answer. If you conduct a devolution experiment you will clearly see that we have secret parts in our dna that allow us to hack into our past. I'm going to take a guess and say you're a believer of God and Jesus Christ. You want to know why I don't and why I choose not to? What did it for me was the realization that the world looks exactly like it would if there were no God.

[Maniacc]

lmfao, kinda offtopic but these are some pretty funny pictures in my opinion - anyone agree?

http://i38.tinypic.com/2ro6cnb.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/262kro6.jpg

[Crazy Asian]

THAT PIC WTFUDGE!!??? Science is BS too. So tell me this, how come thousands of scientist cant agree on the Big Bang theory? Big Bang theory to me is a load of BS too. That's the same as God.

[Maniacc]

THAT PIC WTFUDGE!!??? Science is BS too. So tell me this, how come thousands of scientist cant agree on the Big Bang theory? Big Bang theory to me is a load of BS too. That's the same as God.
Scientists don't agree therefore god did it. That's some awesome logic. And it is just a 'theory' after all. Nothing is flawless.

[stephen]

Interesting. Thanks for PMing me back to this thread. Now lets get started:

You're saying that you pretty much think atheism or atheist exist because of so many religions? That we go from a religous mentality to an atheist one? Haven't heard that one before. I have no problem with people believing in something, me being the way I am. Give's me the opportunity to seek greater knowledge when other's who believe in religion who refuse to believe and would much rather ignore. You're Baptist. Well, so is my mom. So I pretty much know what you guys believe in and how you guys view "God."

i'm not necessarily saying that atheist go from religion to no religion, i just feel like there are far too many religions in the world, and it's natural for ANYONE to second guess "who's right/who's wrong." i believe that's the battle that creates "non believers." athiest tend to look more on the intellectual side of things, where everything has a definitive, and sometimes "tangible" answer. the religious rely on faith, and hold the "unknown" to a higher standard.


From my understanding there are three spirits. God, Jesus and like you said the Holy Ghost. I honestly don't understand this whole concept. Why must there be three? I also had some Baptist people come to my house one day and all three of us sat down and had a very nice talk about me and my stand on religion. I asked questions and they tried to respond. I made some good points, they made some good points.

You seeing "God" as how someone would see if they were going through a time warp could be cause because of your eyesight. Like when you wake up and can't see real clear. Everything turns fuzzy. Maybe? From talks with my mother she's told me that she's never seen God but she's felt him. Through heat - increase in body temp. could happen from so many things. Muscles tensing up, inner body phenomena, ect.


the 3 entities is something that i can't give you a definitive answer to...but i can try. God, being the creator of all, needed a means of communicating with man. he sent down a direct decendent of himself, Jesus, whose goal was to physically show man there is a higher power. the Holy Ghost...i have no idea of how to explain it...i'd say it's more like those "feelings" your mom mentioned. i believe our only way of actually seeing God (without dying), was through Jesus...who died at the hands of man. therefore, when we "feel" God, we're referring to the Holy Ghost.



To you "faith" is that, but to me it's something else. An absence of faith is not a faith. I have enough faith to believe that theology, especially Abrahamic theology, is merely the refuge of the mentally handicapped. I can't prove that they are all handicapped, but I have faith that they are.

because you don't hold a faith in religion, don't mean you lack it. you still hold faith in science. the difference between my faith and yours can be seen if we were both on our "death beds." while i would pray for God to return my health, and give the doctors whatever skill it would take to fix me....you would hope that science alone can fix you. in my mind, your hope, and my prayer, are one in the same. i'm putting my faith in the hands of the Lord, and you're putting yours in the hands of man & medicine.


I also live only to live life and all the things it has to offer. Why have faith in something that's going to happen after you experience death? The Qur'an I think could be one of the few books that are closer to the religion truth than anything else. Yes, because it's from the country where this whole tale supposedly started from. I've never read it, so I have no idea what's in it. But I do know of it's origin.

religious people also live to enjoy life, but death is inevitable. the 2 most traumatic things a human can experience is LIFE and DEATH. to me, life and death represent the "tangible" begining and end of our bodies...while our spirits can't die, they return to the creator. lol, i highly doubt anyone is ANXIOUS to return their spirit to the creator (except maybe suicide bombers), but it is an idea that eases the stress of knowing your life will be over. do you believe that you have a spirit? you've never thought about what the WHOLE purpose of life is? it's just hard to believe that we're here, we go through all of these trials and tribulations, and for it all to be for nothing. is that TRULY that easy to believe? that's harder than accepting God!


You have to take a trip to reality to understand that our body's aren't as difficult to duplicate as you may think. We already know how our systems work and what kind of components we're made off. All we're stuck on, is how our brain works. Since it's a very sensitive organ and full of billions of cells. We're getting closer to understanding it though, thanks to science.

Having a sense that we're the final product and that they're is nothing else out there other than ourselves is foolish. We're not alone - and this has already been proven. To understand how life began, again, you'll have to take a trip to reality. First you have to understand what we're exactly made of. Our composition. Of course you have people believing we're made of magical minerals that's only found here, on planet Earth. Well, when you look at it through a set of well educated eyes you come to realize that not everything can be that simple. The origin of 'humans' would clearly take us back millions of years. Mutation, evolution, time. There are tons of factors that played a roll. You may throw the 'how do you know' comment but here's an answer. If you conduct a devolution experiment you will clearly see that we have secret parts in our dna that allow us to hack into our past. I'm going to take a guess and say you're a believer of God and Jesus Christ. You want to know why I don't and why I choose not to? What did it for me was the realization that the world looks exactly like it would if there were no God.


a trip in reality would tell you that our bodies aren't easy to duplicate. sh/t, our bodies can't even duplicate itself at some points. think about how in the womb, your body creates this perfect human from NOTHING. now what happens when we lose limbs...they don't grow back, but they started from nothing right? what about when we lose large amounts of skin? yeah, sometimes the skin will return, but it will never be the same BEFORE it was damaged. the only possible way for us to duplicate a human (cloning) would be to have a human to start with. although we have to have 2 humans to reproduce, there was still a point where the FIRST humans came from NOTHING....that's something we can't re-create. if you believe we can, and haven't seen it...then why is it so hard for you to believe in a God you can't see????

i almost missed the whole last paragraph you wrote. it's true, maybe your day to day life isn't any different if you believe or not, but a little positive energy can't hurt you. like i said, there's a lot of things you've never seen, but feel like there's plenty of evidence out there to support your opinion...well religion is the same way. to me, that's one of the greatest joys faith can give you....POSITIVE ENERGY. i can wake up and enjoy the sunrise and nature just as much as you, but i can also wake up and thank the Lord for giving me life, and being able to enjoy EVERYTHING that life has to offer.

[Maniacc]

Very nice. I'll definitely have to take some time on this one. Which will require sleep - and since I have to wake up at 7am to take my ass to work, I don't even know why I'm not already alseep. Stephen, glad to see that this site actually has some intellectuals lurking. And not just morons who think they're smart only to look like buffoons trying.

[BABY J]

Scientists don't agree therefore god did it. That's some awesome logic. And it is just a 'theory' after all. Nothing is flawless.

I'm pretty close.

[Maniacc]

i'm not necessarily saying that atheist go from religion to no religion, i just feel like there are far too many religions in the world, and it's natural for ANYONE to second guess "who's right/who's wrong." i believe that's the battle that creates "non believers." athiest tend to look more on the intellectual side of things, where everything has a definitive, and sometimes "tangible" answer. the religious rely on faith, and hold the "unknown" to a higher standard.
Actually im gonna have to disagree with you on this. The majority of atheist don't convert to atheism simply because there are countless religions out there. Everyone has a different way of seeing things, I've always never really believed in religion, even as a kid. I don't think anyone can guess how someone becomes atheist because there are simply too many factors that play a role in it.



the 3 entities is something that i can't give you a definitive answer to...but i can try. God, being the creator of all, needed a means of communicating with man. he sent down a direct decendent of himself, Jesus, whose goal was to physically show man there is a higher power. the Holy Ghost...i have no idea of how to explain it...i'd say it's more like those "feelings" your mom mentioned. i believe our only way of actually seeing God (without dying), was through Jesus...who died at the hands of man. therefore, when we "feel" God, we're referring to the Holy Ghost.
Interesting. What I would argue with this post would be the fact that their is no proof of this happening. And like Jesus, there have been numerous 'deities' before him - so who are we to say which one is true and the truth? Make senses?



because you don't hold a faith in religion, don't mean you lack it. you still hold faith in science. the difference between my faith and yours can be seen if we were both on our "death beds." while i would pray for God to return my health, and give the doctors whatever skill it would take to fix me....you would hope that science alone can fix you. in my mind, your hope, and my prayer, are one in the same. i'm putting my faith in the hands of the Lord, and you're putting yours in the hands of man & medicine.
Like I said before, our definition of 'faith' are totally different. An absense of faith is not a faith - The way I look at science is not through faith, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith I look at it as a tool for gaining knowledge. Not a guidance or a sense of comfort. The only minor point of faith we must take is that our senses are reasonably consistent and reliable. That's how I see it.



religious people also live to enjoy life, but death is inevitable. the 2 most traumatic things a human can experience is LIFE and DEATH. to me, life and death represent the "tangible" begining and end of our bodies...while our spirits can't die, they return to the creator. lol, i highly doubt anyone is ANXIOUS to return their spirit to the creator (except maybe suicide bombers), but it is an idea that eases the stress of knowing your life will be over. do you believe that you have a spirit? you've never thought about what the WHOLE purpose of life is? it's just hard to believe that we're here, we go through all of these trials and tribulations, and for it all to be for nothing. is that TRULY that easy to believe? that's harder than accepting God!
When you come to the realization that we're not a 'big' as we might think, you start to wonder and say - who am I, and what makes my life so special. Think about it. Our existence isn't all that glamorous, there are so many things out there that we just can't relate to. Our species in general isn't as advance as we'd like to think it is. Living life is just that, an experience - to me of course. I don't see it as anything supernatural or 'out of this world.'



a trip in reality would tell you that our bodies aren't easy to duplicate. sh/t, our bodies can't even duplicate itself at some points. think about how in the womb, your body creates this perfect human from NOTHING. now what happens when we lose limbs...they don't grow back, but they started from nothing right? what about when we lose large amounts of skin? yeah, sometimes the skin will return, but it will never be the same BEFORE it was damaged. the only possible way for us to duplicate a human (cloning) would be to have a human to start with. although we have to have 2 humans to reproduce, there was still a point where the FIRST humans came from NOTHING....that's something we can't re-create. if you believe we can, and haven't seen it...then why is it so hard for you to believe in a God you can't see????
Your trust in the bible and Adam and Eve have blinded you from truly understand how and why we're here. And why we are/look the way we are/do. If it wasn't for the cro-magnons wiping out the neanderthals - a much lesser intelligent being, we might or could've gone extinct. Cro-magnons lived on, because they were ahead of the game. The times were changing and they were changing with the time.

The whole Adam and Eve story is just that - a story. I personally don't believe it, because it's just not scientifically possible for two mere human beings to populate the Earth. There is just no way. It's a nice way to think about it, a male and female living together in a wonderful field of flowers with no troubles at all - a very nice description of how life was back in that era(hope you catch the sarcasm).


i almost missed the whole last paragraph you wrote. it's true, maybe your day to day life isn't any different if you believe or not, but a little positive energy can't hurt you. like i said, there's a lot of things you've never seen, but feel like there's plenty of evidence out there to support your opinion...well religion is the same way. to me, that's one of the greatest joys faith can give you....POSITIVE ENERGY. i can wake up and enjoy the sunrise and nature just as much as you, but i can also wake up and thank the Lord for giving me life, and being able to enjoy EVERYTHING that life has to offer.
Life in itself would be enough positive energy, having kids, making money, dating, sex, ect. Religion is constantly talking about death and the death of jesus and how bad people go to hell ect ect. While others are out enjoying life for what it really is. I don't see how coming out of a church on sunday morning can boost your energy to an extent where you just feel as if you were to die at that very moment - that everything would be ok. It just doesn't work that way.

[stephen]

Actually im gonna have to disagree with you on this. The majority of atheist don't convert to atheism simply because there are countless religions out there. Everyone has a different way of seeing things, I've always never really believed in religion, even as a kid. I don't think anyone can guess how someone becomes atheist because there are simply too many factors that play a role in it.



Interesting. What I would argue with this post would be the fact that their is no proof of this happening. And like Jesus, there have been numerous 'deities' before him - so who are we to say which one is true and the truth? Make senses?



Like I said before, our definition of 'faith' are totally different. An absense of faith is not a faith - The way I look at science is not through faith, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith I look at it as a tool for gaining knowledge. Not a guidance or a sense of comfort. The only minor point of faith we must take is that our senses are reasonably consistent and reliable. That's how I see it.



When you come to the realization that we're not a 'big' as we might think, you start to wonder and say - who am I, and what makes my life so special. Think about it. Our existence isn't all that glamorous, there are so many things out there that we just can't relate to. Our species in general isn't as advance as we'd like to think it is. Living life is just that, an experience - to me of course. I don't see it as anything supernatural or 'out of this world.'



Your trust in the bible and Adam and Eve have blinded you from truly understand how and why we're here. And why we are/look the way we are/do. If it wasn't for the cro-magnons wiping out the neanderthals - a much lesser intelligent being, we might or could've gone extinct. Cro-magnons lived on, because they were ahead of the game. The times were changing and they were changing with the time.

The whole Adam and Eve story is just that - a story. I personally don't believe it, because it's just not scientifically possible for two mere human beings to populate the Earth. There is just no way. It's a nice way to think about it, a male and female living together in a wonderful field of flowers with no troubles at all - a very nice description of how life was back in that era(hope you catch the sarcasm).


Life in itself would be enough positive energy, having kids, making money, dating, sex, ect. Religion is constantly talking about death and the death of jesus and how bad people go to hell ect ect. While others are out enjoying life for what it really is. I don't see how coming out of a church on sunday morning can boost your energy to an extent where you just feel as if you were to die at that very moment - that everything would be ok. It just doesn't work that way.

you're right...there are multiple factors that make someone an athiest. you do realize though, that you did in fact help confirm my idea with a question in your second paragraph...
"And like Jesus, there have been numerous 'deities' before him - so who are we to say which one is true and the truth?"

that question is also an ambiguous question. it all depends on which faith you're asking. every religion feels like they have the right "story." you have to remember, a lot of people are born into their religion. when you live your life believing in something, and feeling like you've experienced it, then it's difficult to one day think "hey, all of that was just fake..."

i don't think we'll ever agree on what "faith" is. we can both show each other different opinions to prove our point, and we'll still never see eye to eye. i really just wanted you to have a better understand on my view (much like how i understand yours).

when i think about why life is more than just an experience, i think more about my impact on others. there's going to be a countless number of people whose lives you WILL impact (the most important...family). there's absolutely NOTHING in existence, that doesn't require the help of something/someone else.

one thing that i don't think you know, is that the bible does mention Adam and Eve as the first human beings, but they weren't the ONLY ones (i'm talking about other people ASIDE from them and their children). you also have to understand that the story of Adam and Eve isn't about how the earth was populated; it has more to do with why man now has to live with sin and struggle. i hear exactly what your saying when you make the references to evolution, mutation, and cavemen....but there is still one question that science CAN'T give a definitive answer on....what's the origin of life? how is that any different than religion??? there are a number of different "scientific" theories, much like there are a number of religions. the difference is, if there are scientist out there who feel like they KNOW how life originated, then duplicate it....create a human from SCRATCH.

you're exactly right when you say that life itself is positive energy. just like a family, money, dating, sex, etc. brings joy into your life, religion does the same for some people. there are people out there who have lost their family, money, health, etc., and sometimes the one thing that keeps them motivated is their faith in God (not everyone, but some people). religion isn't all about death. yes it talks about death, but is death not something that we all have to face? everything that you mentioned also has a hand in death, and we see the stories EVERYDAY on the news, in movies, books, music, etc. atleast once a week there's some special on tv with scientist talking about to HORRIFYING end to earth.

as an individual you have values, goals, and dreams that help you cope with life. if you find something that works for you, then by all means give it your all. i appreciate you giving me a better understanding of how some athiest view things. like i told you before, i respect your opinions whether i agree or not. much respect to you for having an open mind and taking the time to get a better understanding of something you don't agree with. lol, i was always taught, there are 3 things people will never agree on...religion, abortion, and alcohol.

[Maniacc]

What I meant by many deities before Jesus was a reference from Zeitgeist - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197&ei=5225SKGeLZP8rQLw0Nn1DA&q=zeitgeist&hl=en But I completely understand what you've said. I respect your point of view - I personally have no problem with religion. I'm pretty sure you know that If I wanted to I could respond to everything you've posted, yet I'm sure we've gotten our points out there in the open so it just isn't necessary to continue. I'm sure you'll understand.

ETA: Thank you as well for taking the time to respond - it's been fun.

[quickdodge®]

What I meant by many deities before Jesus was a reference from Zeitgeist - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197&ei=5225SKGeLZP8rQLw0Nn1DA&q=zeitgeist&hl=en But I completely understand what you've said. I respect your point of view - I personally have no problem with religion. I'm pretty sure you know that If I wanted to I could respond to everything you've posted, yet I'm sure we've gotten our points out there in the open so it just isn't necessary to continue. I'm sure you'll understand.

ETA: Thank you as well for taking the time to respond - it's been fun.

All I can say is when I told my Son he had only seven days to come up with a life-sustaining sphere, I never dreamt that He would entertain this idea. I remember as a young lad, He would babble on about creating atmosphere and water and air that would provide life to "beings." I didn't know He was going to make these "beings" in His own image. Honestly, He doesn't even look like anything He's ever created. Later, QD.

[Deke]

I like to think of God like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band, and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk.

[Maniacc]

All I can say is when I told my Son he had only seven days to come up with a life-sustaining sphere, I never dreamt that He would entertain this idea. I remember as a young lad, He would babble on about creating atmosphere and water and air that would provide life to "beings." I didn't know He was going to make these "beings" in His own image. Honestly, He doesn't even look like anything He's ever created. Later, QD.
That doesn't make any sense nor does it seem to have a point.

[quickdodge®]

That doesn't make any sense nor does it seem to have a point.

I'm really not that surprised to read that from you. Seeing as how I pulled this from my own brain, from where most of my "material" comes from, and remembering past "altercations" with you where you could not keep up, I knew it wouldn't make sense to you. Now if I pulled something from another source, you'd be able to GOOGLE some response to it and be able to make your reply. Later, QD.

[Maniacc]

I'm really not that surprised to read that from you. Seeing as how I pulled this from my own brain, from where most of my "material" comes from, and remembering past "altercations" with you where you could not keep up, I knew it wouldn't make sense to you. Now if I pulled something from another source, you'd be able to GOOGLE some response to it and be able to make your reply. Later, QD.
All it pretty much said was 'God's' son created man. And his creation isn't what he'd hoped it be. Which is why it said "He doesn't even look like anything He's ever created" - which means he was aiming for something different, only to fail. Although it is a pretty interesting statement, I still see no point to it.

[quickdodge®]

All it pretty much said was 'God's' son created man. And his creation isn't what he'd hoped it be. Which is why it said "He doesn't even look like anything He's ever created" - which means he was aiming for something different, only to fail. Although it is a pretty interesting statement, I still see no point to it.

1. It was a joke post.
2. You waaaaaaaaaaay missed what I was hinting at.

Later, QD.

[Maniacc]

1. It was a joke post.
2. You waaaaaaaaaaay missed what I was hinting at.

Later, QD.
1. Your face is a joke post.
2. Well then, care to explain what was the point of it?

[quickdodge®]

1. Your face is a joke post.
2. Well then, care to explain what was the point of it?

1. Sticks and stone and stuff like that...
2. Reread the first line and maybe it'll come to you.

Later, QD.

[Deke]

He was joking that he is God's father. Come on.

[Maniacc]

Took me a while to figure out why that was supposed to be funny. But then I managed to put myself in the mindset of a complete geek who has no life outside of sci fi conventions, and I got it. It still wasn't funny, but I got it. Nice one, QD.

[alpine_aw11]

This is what god looks like.
http://i33.tinypic.com/x3zcp5.jpg

[quickdodge®]

Nice one, QD.

I know. Unlike others, I the only thing I fail at is, well, failing. Kind of ironic, huh. Later, QD.

[Nex]

i see him as a supreme being.

The term Supreme Being is often defined simply as "God",

[EJ25RUN]

the all important name change. lol