E92 M3 > GT-R

[tony]

Yeah I know that will get some arguments going..

Anyway as if I wasn't already convinced on the M3 I see these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEFV4eC0s4U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx_6NLWhOWc&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKUPNNbcGs&feature=related

Honestly I know it would be crazy to choose an M3 over the GT-R, I absolutely love the look of the R35 and everything but I just don't care for turbos really. Naturally aspirated just adds to the whole driving experience and I will take high rev with a sweet exhaust note over low torque any day.

Sometimes its not about how fast you get from point A to point B, I think as you get older you appreciate the experience in getting there more than the speed itself.

Havent driven either one so obviously my opinion isn't worth :2cents: on both cars but

[alpine_aw11]

Sounds mean as hell. As far as M3 vs. GTR, I'd take the M3. Gotta have the stick shift.

[Elbow]

A V8 that revs to 8k is fine by me ;)

They are quick cars.

[The Creeper]

The new M3's are pure sex.

[EJ25RUN]

No it doesn't sound crazy to pick an M3 over a GTR. Car & Driver (no matter what your opinion of them is) took it over the GTR and a 911 Turbo

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/comparison_test/2008_bmw_m3_vs_2009_nissan_gt_r_vs_2008_porsche_91 1_turbo/vision_quest_45/1450107-1-eng-US/vision_quest_45_gallery_image_large.jpg
Here’s the list of the 2008 winners International Engine of the Year Awards:

International Engine of the Year 2008
BMW 3-litre Twin-Turbo (135i, 335i, X6)

Best New Engine of 2008
BMW 2-litre Diesel Twin-Turbo (123D)

Green Engine of the Year
Toyota 1.5-litre Hybrid Synergy Drive (Prius)

Best Performance Engine
Porsche 3.6-litre Turbo (911 Turbo, 911 GT2)

Sub 1-litre
Toyota 1-litre (Aygo, Yaris, Peugeot 107, Citroën C1, Subaru Justy)

1-litre to 1.4-litre
Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger (Golf, Touran, Tiguan, Jetta)

1.4-litre to 1.8-litre
BMW-PSA 1.6-litre Turbo (MINI Cooper S, Clubman, Peugeot 207, 308)

1.8-litre to 2-litre
Volkswagen/Audi 2-litre Turbo (A3, A4 Cabrio, A6, TT, Eos, Jetta, Golf GTi, Altea, Leon, Skoda Octavia)

2-litre to 2.5-litre
Subaru 2.5-litre Turbo (Forester, Impreza, Outback, Legacy)

2.5-litre to 3-litre
BMW 3-litre Twin-Turbo (135i, 335i, X6)

3-litre to 4-litre
BMW 4-litre V8 (M3)

Above 4-litre
BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)

[man]

Sometimes its not about how fast you get from point A to point B, I think as you get older you appreciate the experience in getting there more than the speed itself.

Agree 100%, it's not like most people will actually benefit from having a faster car unless you're racing for money.

[HeLLo iM iZzY]

M3>GTR.

Nutswingers FTL.

[CHADbee]

sounds sick and its a VERY nice car but id take the GTR all day over the new M3

call me a nut swinger but i just like the GTR alot LOL

[CHADbee]

M3>GTR.

Nutswingers FTL.
the people on the anti-GTR bandwagon FTL

[JITB]

i cant really agree tony.....lol u now id take the gtr...

id take the C63 over the M3....
http://www.autounleashed.com/images/mercedes_c63_amg_white.jpg

Bmw's are great... but.. they seem kind of boring..to me.. especially the new m3. and the interior also is too bland..:( but great car.

[CHADbee]

i cant really agree tony.....lol u now id take the gtr...

id take the C63 over the M3....


Bmw's are great... but.. they seem kind of boring..to me.. especially the new m3. and the interior also is too bland..:( but great car.
i agree with that...the M3 is a beast and an AMAZING car that i would not mind owning at all. i guess it kinda comes down to your taste and what you want out of a car.

in my eyes the M3 vs GTR is like accord coupe VS camaro

2 different classes of cars really. the M3 is one of the best, if not THE best luxury coupe ever made...but in the end it is a luxury coupe where the GTR is a sports car. i think they were built for 2 different kind of car people.

i want both :(

[bigdare23]

call me a nut swinger


Okay Chad



NUT SWINGER




:lmfao:

[HeLLo iM iZzY]

the people on the anti-GTR bandwagon FTLNah. It's not even like that. I just hate how everyone is all over the GTR in every way possible, you know? The car looks great, it's fast, I wouldn't mind owning one at all but I just have more love towards the M3. Call me stupid, but for some reason I'd love to have a R33 more than a R35. (Ok, don't really call me stupid, lol.) Maybe it's because im european and europeans gotta stick together, or idk? LOL.

[alpine_aw11]

i agree with that...the M3 is a beast and an AMAZING car that i would not mind owning at all. i guess it kinda comes down to your taste and what you want out of a car.

in my eyes the M3 vs GTR is like accord coupe VS camaro

2 different classes of cars really. the M3 is one of the best, if not THE best luxury coupe ever made...but in the end it is a luxury coupe where the GTR is a sports car. i think they were built for 2 different kind of car people.

i want both :(

I wouldn't necessarily say that an m3 isn't a sports car.

[EJ25RUN]

but in the end it is a luxury coupe where the GTR is a sports car. i think they were built for 2 different kind of car people.
:(

Im gonna have to say you got those backwards. Here is why.

No matter how advanced that double clutch box is from the gtr, the fact that it is missing a "real mans gearbox" makes if fall flat on its face.

My definition of a sports car has no time frame. Look at an MG from the mid 50's. It was beyond basic. Just what you need to drive which is what the M badge has not sold out to.

The GTR is a luxury coupe, why? The fact that im not having to multi task like a champ shifting and kicking a clutch. It is just the case that any car with a manual is just more sports than any other car without one.

Sometimes Fun of driving > tenths off a lap time.

All i have explained there is the dry defintion of a sports car and it is all objective.

[CHADbee]

Nah. It's not even like that. I just hate how everyone is all over the GTR in every way possible, you know? The car looks great, it's fast, I wouldn't mind owning one at all but I just have more love towards the M3. Call me stupid, but for some reason I'd love to have a R33 more than a R35. (Ok, don't really call me stupid, lol.) Maybe it's because im european and europeans gotta stick together, or idk? LOL.
to be honest there more anti-GTR people as of late that pro-GTR people. being anti-GTR is the cool new thing. M3 has your roots and thats totally understandable. id have a really hard time picking a R33/R34/R35 GTR i all 3 were in front of me.



I wouldn't necessarily say that an m3 isn't a sports car.
i guess you could call it a luxury sports car but the luxury part is the main goal of the M3 where a GTRs main goal is track times so in my eyes they are two totally different amazing cars.

[EJ25RUN]

i guess you could call it a luxury sports car but the luxury part is the main goal of the M3 where a GTRs main goal is track times

read the back ground story into the making of the R35 and you will see how false that is. The ultimate goal of the GTR was to be able to sell that car on 3 continents for the first time and there for road manners were very important. Most of the people in the tuner scene think the US always gets the worst version of a car compared to Japan but that is not true. First of all there is the 112 MPH speed limiter and then the fact that the Japanese R35 GTRs have much softer suspensions than usa models because more of the demographic wants that.

[CHADbee]

Im gonna have to say you got those backwards. Here is why.

No matter how advanced that double clutch box is from the gtr, the fact that it is missing a "real mans gearbox" makes if fall flat on its face.

My definition of a sports car has no time frame. Look at an MG from the mid 50's. It was beyond basic. Just what you need to drive which is what the M badge has not sold out to.

The GTR is a luxury coupe, why? The fact that im not having to multi task like a champ shifting and kicking a clutch. It is just the case that any car with a 5 speed is just more sports than any other car without one.

Sometimes Fun of driving > tenths off a lap time.
i agree 100 freaky percent!!!!! thats why i love 6 speed supras over TH400 supras. but like i said the car built for fast track times....and the tranny thats in the GTR while pretty gay and unmanly does serve its purpose....faster track times.

im right there with ya....id rather have a 6 speed and be alittle slower. but the purpose of the M3 and the GTR is different. BMW built the car to pimp haaarder and give ya a kick while doing it. nissan built the GTR to be a track beast off the show room floor.

GTR=kick @ss on the track no matter what(having a gay auto)
M3=high class luxury(main purpose) with a twist of go fast.

that^ is why i say they are different.

[CHADbee]

read the back ground story into the making of the R35 and you will see how false that is. The ultimate goal of the GTR was to be able to sell that car on 3 continents for the first time and there for road manners were very important. Most of the people in the tuner scene think the US always gets the worst version of a car compared to Japan but that is not true. First of all there is the 112 MPH speed limiter and then the fact that the Japanese R35 GTRs have much softer suspensions than usa models because more of the demographic wants that.
the suspension is adjustable and the speed limiter turns off when the GPS sees you are at the track....and its ready to kick some butt

[EJ25RUN]

the suspension is adjustable and the speed limiter turns off when the GPS sees you are at the track....and its ready to kick some butt

Autoblog May 1 2008

The suspension revisions, which involved modifying the spring rate by 0.1kg/mm to make the GT-R's coils a bit stiffer, will be accompanied by three harder engine mounts and a firmer transaxle mount that limits movement of the engine and gearbox under cornering forces.

[mrt0mjones]

The Paddleshift on the Gtr isnt as bad as the SMG on the bimmers (i think the smg is sloppy as hell)

I love the m3, i'd drive the m3 and all, but overall performance has already been decided.

Check youtube on the gtr vs m3, clarkson tears um up, and some other indian guy does too. the m3 is nice, but the gtr just outperforms alot of it.


I'd still take the m3 though...

[KevinT707]

Sounds sick! The exhaust note gives me chills .. :)

[Alan®]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz0mJ5NXffg&feature=related

[tony]

ii guess it kinda comes down to your taste and what you want out of a car.



i want both :(

Thats really what it is, my taste has changed over the years and initially it would be the GT-R hands down.. the perfect situation would be to have both in the driveway but if I had to choose one, something in me just says I would take the M3.

The one reason I would take the GT-R first is because its more practical in all weather conditions.

[Gilgamesh]

they are both luxury cars, sports cars are bare bones hardcore no electronic BS cars.

if you have a big screen in the dash then its not a true sports car.

[Gilgamesh]

oh and id take the M3, there is nothing like a high revving V8

[Alan®]

if you have a big screen in the dash then its not a true sports car.
wow did you not realize that both can be had with screens

[MidLifeCrisis]

i cant really agree tony.....lol u now id take the gtr...

id take the C63 over the M3....
http://www.autounleashed.com/images/mercedes_c63_amg_white.jpg

Bmw's are great... but.. they seem kind of boring..to me.. especially the new m3. and the interior also is too bland..:( but great car.


dammit man! and i thought our tastes in cars were one! i <3 bmws.

[JITB]

dammit man! and i thought our tastes in cars were one! i <3 bmws.


:D

[OneSlow5pt0]

yea C63 AMG > M3

ill take Benz over any car in every class

[willum14pb]

To each his own, however i will point out that the m3 in video #2 sounds ****ing MEAN!

[Kaiser]

I'll take a Benz powered Italian Supercar over any blando Benz any day. The new C is a step in the right direction though, that's for sure.




For those that don't know, Pagani Zonda uses a 7+ Liter Benz V12.

[ttman]

i would take the GTR over it because it looks like any other BMW. the GTR doesn't have an identity crisis.

[1SICKLEX]

C&D is crap reading. You know every month the Honda or BMW is going to win. I use it for lighting the fireplace. Its crap. EVO/CAR/ Top Gear or mags you buy.

"M" stands for Mass. The new BMW M cars get faster but bigger and heavier and less involving each go round. EVO picked the E30 M3 over EVERY SINGLE "M" as the best M car.

Is the new M superb? Yes, it still is. V-8, good size package, handling and power galore.

The GT-R takes that to the NEXT LEVEL. The GT-R wipes the floor with the M3, IS-F, C63 and RS4. Its not even close.

[RL...]

C&D is crap reading. You know every month the Honda or BMW is going to win. I use it for lighting the fireplace. Its crap. EVO/CAR/ Top Gear or mags you buy.

"M" stands for Mass. The new BMW M cars get faster but bigger and heavier and less involving each go round. EVO picked the E30 M3 over EVERY SINGLE "M" as the best M car.

Is the new M superb? Yes, it still is. V-8, good size package, handling and power galore.

The GT-R takes that to the NEXT LEVEL. The GT-R wipes the floor with the M3, IS-F, C63 and RS4. Its not even close.

I like this guy^^^^

But all m3's are the ****! It would have to drive both cars before saying which is better....

[Alan®]

C&D is crap reading. You know every month the Honda or BMW is going to win. I use it for lighting the fireplace. Its crap. EVO/CAR/ Top Gear or mags you buy.

"M" stands for Mass. The new BMW M cars get faster but bigger and heavier and less involving each go round. EVO picked the E30 M3 over EVERY SINGLE "M" as the best M car.

Is the new M superb? Yes, it still is. V-8, good size package, handling and power galore.

The GT-R takes that to the NEXT LEVEL. The GT-R wipes the floor with the M3, IS-F, C63 and RS4. Its not even close.
You know I read C&D, Motor Trend, etc. every month and have never picked up a copy of Top Gear. I can't find it anywhere I'm sure Barnes and Noble would have it but Kroger, etc. don't carry it

[superboost]

turbos are what make it good. I love a high revving v8 as much as any guy, but give me a turbo any day. A car without turbo = boring.

[EJ25RUN]

C&D is crap reading. You know every month the Honda or BMW is going to win. I use it for lighting the fireplace. Its crap. EVO/CAR/ Top Gear or mags you buy.

EVO/CAR/Top Gear

I reserve Tuesdays, the new magazine day for Barnes and Noble and read through those along with the lastest F1, Two.Wheels.Only., and PB.

I threw away my 500+ collection of mags and i dont feel like starting another one or spending the money on a mag that is $10.00 an issue. I usually just sit and read front to back.

But what i hate about the British mags is that they are always a month to 2 months behind to get to America. I read the August issue of Top Gear on the plane back from my European trip and i bought it early July. Last week i went to B&N and there was the same issue sitting brand new for the first time.

[Blitanicle99]

The GTR may be sick but its a twin turbo microwave. It has no soul.

The new M3 however, now that is a car. BMW will always make a better car than Nissan.

[RL...]

The GTR may be sick but its a twin turbo microwave. It has no soul.

The new M3 however, now that is a car. BMW will always make a better car than Nissan.

While I love both BMW and Nissan, I might have to disagree. If you're talking about being better performance, the GT-R has more HP and torque, has a better 0-60 time, and also handles better than the m3. They get about the same fuel economy, although the m3 is cheaper(the GT-R starts around $55k, and the GT-R is about $72.) Anyway, they're both amazing cars, but atleast you can ride 4 deep in the m3...

[Blitanicle99]

While I love both BMW and Nissan, I might have to disagree. If you're talking about being better performance, the GT-R has more HP and torque, has a better 0-60 time, and also handles better than the m3. They get about the same fuel economy, although the m3 is cheaper(the GT-R starts around $55k, and the GT-R is about $72.) Anyway, they're both amazing cars, but atleast you can ride 4 deep in the m3...


Again I don't think hp numbers or anything like that matter. I mean true driving experiance.

The M3 has a soul. A life to it. The GTR is just an expensive piece of steel, glass, plastic and rubber.

[RL...]

Again I don't think hp numbers or anything like that matter. I mean true driving experiance.

The M3 has a soul. A life to it. The GTR is just an expensive piece of steel, glass, plastic and rubber.

Maybe, but unless you've driven a GT-R, you shouldn't imply it has no life...It could suprise you. But maybe you're one of the types of people who make up their mind about something based on absolutely nothing...and are too ignorant to open your eyes and see the truth. Ignorance is bliss right? I'm not saying the GT-R is the best car ever, I just don't understand how you can say a car has no soul without ever having driven it....:thinking:

[Elbow]

While I love both BMW and Nissan, I might have to disagree. If you're talking about being better performance, the GT-R has more HP and torque, has a better 0-60 time, and also handles better than the m3. They get about the same fuel economy, although the m3 is cheaper(the GT-R starts around $55k, and the GT-R is about $72.) Anyway, they're both amazing cars, but atleast you can ride 4 deep in the m3...

The new M3 is a blast to drive, the new GTR is like driving on GT4. Sure it's fun, but it's vague and forgivable.

[EJ25RUN]

The new M3 is a blast to drive, the new GTR is like driving on GT4. Sure it's fun, but it's vague and forgivable.

Driving should make a person feel like this.... :goodjob: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpJLV8rEOcA)

[Elbow]

Driving should make a person feel like this.... :goodjob: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpJLV8rEOcA)

Exactly :goodjob:

[1SICKLEX]

EVO/CAR/Top Gear

I reserve Tuesdays, the new magazine day for Barnes and Noble and read through those along with the lastest F1, Two.Wheels.Only., and PB.

I threw away my 500+ collection of mags and i dont feel like starting another one or spending the money on a mag that is $10.00 an issue. I usually just sit and read front to back.

But what i hate about the British mags is that they are always a month to 2 months behind to get to America. I read the August issue of Top Gear on the plane back from my European trip and i bought it early July. Last week i went to B&N and there was the same issue sitting brand new for the first time.

I agree it costs. The funny thing is they are 2 months behind yet review the same vehicles our magazines here get. IMO, well worth the money.

I'm also a Porche fan so Excellence, Total 911 are musts, and I get the occasional other P mag...


You know I read C&D, Motor Trend, etc. every month and have never picked up a copy of Top Gear. I can't find it anywhere I'm sure Barnes and Noble would have it but Kroger, etc. don't carry it
Yes, go to B&N or Borders. With Borders, you can sign up as a member for free and get 5% off by just showing your card or giving them your e-mail.

Its worth every penny. The only reason I get C&D or anything like it is if I get them for free or a $2 subscription.

EVO/CAR/TOP Gear are $10 a piece, damn Dollar vs Euro keeps making the mag higher. :(

BUT THE BEST AMERICAN MAG TO BUY IS "SPORTS CAR INTERNATIONAL"!!!!

I've subscribed for years, it is on par with the Euro mags. They NEVER test SUVs or TRUCKS. Everything from Civic Si to Bugatti's. Once its sporty, they test it. Great writing and pics and only $5.

[man]

turbos are what make it good. I love a high revving v8 as much as any guy, but give me a turbo any day. A car without turbo = boring.

I'm guessing you've never driven a high hp n/a car then...

[Elbow]

^Obviously not lol.

I THINK that a nice NA car is 10x more fun then a boosted car.

[1SICKLEX]

Lets just look at the M3s progression
E30-I-4
E36-I-6
E46-I-5
E90/92-V-8

However, Audi will ditch the V-8 in the S4 and go back to a TT V-6 ala B5 the new generation.

And we have seen chipped TT 335s run with M5s and M3s..

Different strokes for different folks. My fav is a nice torquey V-8. Check the sig :D

[Cool Cat Racing]

I'm sorry but I'd still choose the GTR as well and for the most part I do not like the car. Its very practical, has a back seat, nearly no turbo lag, and the power curve of a torquey V8. The M3's V8 is hardly torquey but does sound sick. Nissan lost much of their engine sickness when they ditched the RB, not many engines sound like a built RB singing at 9K. I like the new BMW's but they are for the crowd that wants a good handling luxury car with power. Its extremely comfortable and has been tamed down on each new edition. Yes the motors have always been wonderful and the suspension always tight and predictable but it just keeps getting heavier. The E30 M3's were still the best in my opinion in both true M performance and looks. Ever since then the M division has been building too much luxury into the car. The GTR has the luxury and the weight but has the traction and power to cope with it but it does lack some of that driving experience that BMW has always had. This is the first version on this platform, it will get better.

[Elbow]

Lets just look at the M3s progression
E30-I-4
E36-I-6
E46-I-5
E90/92-V-8

However, Audi will ditch the V-8 in the S4 and go back to a TT V-6 ala B5 the new generation.

And we have seen chipped TT 335s run with M5s and M3s..

Different strokes for different folks. My fav is a nice torquey V-8. Check the sig :D

E46 was I6

[VooDooXII]

Car & Driver must be on BMW's payroll. :rolleyes:

Really though, that car must be incredible.

[Logan]

I would rather have a M3 over the GTR. I saw the top gear review on it, and tailsliding it around the track looked extremely fun. Plus it can haul the family around in comfort. It's win win in my book.

[Cool Cat Racing]

Is everyone forgetting the GTR has a back seat, they always have. Its about the same size as a G35 coupe back seat which is plenty big enough for kids or small adults.

[Blitanicle99]

Reguardless of the back seat or not, BMW makes a better car.

The M series cars are the top notch vehicles around. The are the balance between a powerful sports car, and then roll up the windows turn the A/C on and youve got quite a luxary car.

The GTR to me is just a faster 350z. I don't even understand why they made it look like they did. It looks nothing like the R34 or the previous skylines.

The M3 however, follows quite a family of stylish cars.

[Alan®]

The GTR to me is just a faster 350z. I don't even understand why they made it look like they did. It looks nothing like the R34 or the previous skylines.

The M3 however, follows quite a family of stylish cars.
That's because it's not really supposed to. The GT-R is the next chapter in the GT-R story and they wanted to start fresh. They carried over the tails and thats about it.

I do wonder however if they will make a CSL of the new M3 or not cause that would be a serious contender.

[OneSlow5pt0]

That's because it's not really supposed to. The GT-R is the next chapter in the GT-R story and they wanted to start fresh. They carried over the tails and thats about it.

I do wonder however if they will make a CSL of the new M3 or not cause that would be a serious contender.

CSL? the C63 AMG is already faster than the M3

lol,nvm i feel dumb.........M3 CSL:(

[Maki]

M3 ftw!!!!!!!

[Roadster]

Oh the things you could do to the M3 with that extra $20 grand you didn't spend on the GT-R...

I'm glad BMW decided to be true to the M badge and up the displacement instead instead of adding boost to the mix. The E92 exhaust note is honestly one of the most deadly sounding cars I've ever heard. 8k is music.

I'm pretty biased against the GT-R. I enjoy driving my cars, not being driven by them.

I think it was Chad who on the first page called the M a "luxury coupe" and the R35 a sportscar...I'm sure someone pretty soundly disproved that one already (without reading through the rest of the thread). The M is still 100lbs lighter than the GT-R. I'm not sure why folks are complaining about the E92's weight.

I guess I'm a purist for the most part, and the GT-R is as far from a pure driving experience as it gets these days. I'll drive a minivan if I want to let the vehicle do the driving and reacting for me.

///M ftw.

[40th GT]

For me its like, Corvette Z06/ZR1>>GT500>C63 AMG>E92 M3>GTR.

[Elbow]

i agree with that...the M3 is a beast and an AMAZING car that i would not mind owning at all. i guess it kinda comes down to your taste and what you want out of a car.

in my eyes the M3 vs GTR is like accord coupe VS camaro

2 different classes of cars really. the M3 is one of the best, if not THE best luxury coupe ever made...but in the end it is a luxury coupe where the GTR is a sports car. i think they were built for 2 different kind of car people.

i want both :(

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

A M3 has always been a luxury coupe?!!? WTF is wrong with you?? HOW IS A GTR A SPORTS CAR??? :lmfao: :lmfao:

And then you go on to say BMW made the M3 to be a pimp or something...BMW made the M3 as a street legal track car. I have seen a new M3 do nice FAST laps at Road Atlanta all day. They are fast on track. BMW has racing heritage, the M is like THE BMW.

[JITB]

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

A M3 has always been a luxury coupe?!!? WTF is wrong with you?? HOW IS A GTR A SPORTS CAR??? :lmfao: :lmfao:

And then you go on to say BMW made the M3 to be a pimp or something...BMW made the M3 as a street legal track car. I have seen a new M3 do nice FAST laps at Road Atlanta all day. They are fast on track. BMW has racing heritage, the M is like THE BMW.


the gtr isnt a sports car?

:tongue1:

[OnURleft]

Yeah I know that will get some arguments going..

Anyway as if I wasn't already convinced on the M3 I see these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEFV4eC0s4U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx_6NLWhOWc&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKUPNNbcGs&feature=related

Honestly I know it would be crazy to choose an M3 over the GT-R, I absolutely love the look of the R35 and everything but I just don't care for turbos really. Naturally aspirated just adds to the whole driving experience and I will take high rev with a sweet exhaust note over low torque any day.

Sometimes its not about how fast you get from point A to point B, I think as you get older you appreciate the experience in getting there more than the speed itself.

Havent driven either one so obviously my opinion isn't worth :2cents: on both cars but


+1.
I.M.O the cars are not very comparible. It's like comparing a Vette and an M3.They are in a different class...Saloon/Touring GT vs GT. Both are amazing at what they do. Both can be considered class leaders of their own class.
Compared to Vette's/Skylines, M3's just feel like a completely different car, it's still very civilized and the looks say that. You can pick up a client and not feel like your making anyone else uncomfortable. I guess you'd have to drive these cars to really understand what i'm saying, but they are simply apples and oranges that can throw down some good numbers.
As far as turbo's you have to drive the GTR in order to compare the two like that but I also do not prefer a car with forced induction from past experiences... and lots of seat time in ..However some new F.I cars (our A3 loaner, my neighbors 997 GT2) are simply so good I don't even feel that turbo hatred I have but it's still not enough to make me boost my car over an S54 swap..despite a 200whp difference.

[Elbow]

the gtr isnt a sports car?

:tongue1:

No actually it's not...

[JITB]

No actually it's not...


lol if u say so..

[OneSlow5pt0]

neither the GTR or M3 are sports cars,thier both sport coupes or sport sedan

[Elbow]

^Right.

[JITB]

i guess!

[Atlblkz06]

I dont see why people are obsessed with back seats.
This is America - we have a car for each person and the rear seats are used about 1% of the time even with 4D sedans. I only have 2 seats and I've yet to miss the rear seats.

I think the E92 is a great car, but BMW may have shot themselves in the foot with the 335. I have a hard time justifying that kinda money for the M3.

I just configured two BMWs:
335x 48000
M3: 61000
For 13k, I dont know.. the M3 may be a good upgrade!

You guys make a good point about "who drives who?".
I didn't want any compromises, so I went with the Z06. No regrets at all.
I think the GTR is AMAZING at making the most of what power it has.
The idea of an SMG or DSG transmission sounds pretty cool, but it does replace talent with technology.

Any way you look at it, many are envious of those who have the dilemma of chosing between such cars :)

[chituntang]

I see people's point of "why a GTR?" I saw a 50 years old looking guy driving a GTR the other day and wondering why a GTR but not a 911....

But I do not get people's point of you are driving more of a car as in M3 to GTR. You still get more than enough gadgets in new performance cars now than ever. Electric throttle control, traction control, whatever shift the fastest gear box, ABS, etc (Yes, the M3 almost have all of these things too). You want to drive a "real car," you need to live in the 60's. And there is not a lot of people who can handle a 4/500 whp cars without any electric assistant anyways.

I will talk about which one I want once I have the ability to own one of them.

[JITB]

. And there is not a lot of people who can handle a 4/500 whp cars without any electric assistant anyways.



:goodjob: :goodjob:

[Atlblkz06]

True. But those old cars had horrible handling compared to cars today.

I like the idea of having the option of turning off the T/C system instead of not having it at all (ahem viper).

Not saying you are, but implying that NOT having T/C makes the driver a lesser man is ridiculous. Thats the kinda sentiment the viper alley lives on.


I see people's point of "why a GTR?" I saw a 50 years old looking guy driving a GTR the other wondering why a GTR but not a 911....

But I do not get people's point of you are driving more of a car as in M3 to GTR. You still get more than enough gadgets in new performance cars now than ever. Electric throttle control, traction control, whatever shift the fastest gear box, ABS, etc (Yes, the M3 almost have all of these things too). You want to drive a "real car," you need to live in the 60's. And there is not a lot of people who can handle a 4/500 whp cars without any electric assistant anyways.

[Blitanicle99]

One of the biased things for me is, Ive owned older german cars. The things even the old german cars do, the Japs still havent done.

For instance, my 1988 Jetta GLI had a average mpg feature. That was a cheap sport fwd German car made in the 80s. I have yet to see a similiar Japanese car with something as cool.

Or, the E36 coupe BMWs windows roll down about a half an inch when you open and go back up that half an inch when you close to make better aero-dynamics.


Specs mean nothing to me, overall driving experiance and how the cars are made are more to me.

**Also, the GTR is a Turbo 6 cylinder. When you give it some hell the turbo has to spool up to get the rear end sideways.


However... The M3 is a V8 HOSS. Take off the TC and itll romp those tires at 2k all you want.


Moving on to exhaust tones.... The GTR sounds cool when the turbo spools up and whines up the motor... Where-as the V8 M3... You can hear from a mile away roaring like hells angels coming to rip your face off. :yes:

Now, to me a sports car should sound like something is coming to kill you, your family, and wreck your town in the process. And truely, there is nothing like the V8 throating sinister growl.

[JITB]

True. But those old cars had horrible handling compared to cars today.

I like the idea of having the option of turning off the T/C system instead of not having it at all (ahem viper).

Not saying you are, but implying that NOT having T/C makes the driver a lesser is ridiculous. Thats the kinda sentiment the viper alley lives on.


if most of the cars out didnt have traction control people would kill themselves..

[chituntang]

True. But those old cars had horrible handling compared to cars today.

I like the idea of having the option of turning off the T/C system instead of not having it at all (ahem viper).

Not saying you are, but implying that NOT having T/C makes the driver a lesser is ridiculous. Thats the kinda sentiment the viper alley lives on.

I am not degrading any driver driving with any driving aids. I just do not like the people saying the GTR is like playing playstation, when the M3 is not. Hell, if you can set how long the headlight stays on after the car is shut off, I guess you are not driving anymore. You are just a computer administrator. Sure, the GTR does more on its own in driving aids, but this is my point:

You drive the M3, the other guy drives the GTR. You lose in every race you had with him, on the track, 1/4 mile, etc. But then you talk to your friends saying "he won because of his car."

WTF??

If you want to buy a M3, there is hardly any reasons to choose a GTR over it. GTR has as much, if not more than the M3 in terms of soul and passion, as it has its name in racing since like the 60's. M3 only started in the mid 80's. But when you buy either one, the reason behind your decision would be different.

[Cool Cat Racing]

I don't understand why people don't like paddle shifters, it has nothing to do with talent vs technology. It has everything to do with making the car faster. Its the next step in making cars faster. People threw up this same BS when synchros became popular and now no one even thinks about them. If you can't drive a standard 5/6 speed you're still going to suck in any one of the current crop of performance cars. Yes the computer can make an idiot look good but still can't overcome stupidity. If you're fast you will be faster with a proper paddle shifted car. If you want a car for the shear feel and experience of driving there are plenty of examples to choose from. When we get to this level of performance you pay for a faster car. If you want a subdued comfy cruiser that can still be respectable on the track buy the M3 and love every second in it. If you want a technology driven car that can go faster on the track and look more "modern", get the GTR. If you want to still go faster than open your wallet farther and buy something else. I agree these two cars are in completely different classes and its truly hard to lump them together because the people wanting a car in whichever class are still going to choose that one. No one in this thread could walk into a dealership and buy either of them and only a very few have even driven either car or even ridden in one. Everyone who is knocking on car vs the other who haven't driven them on the street and on the track are talking out their ass and need to leave the magazine rhetoric on the rack. I haven't driven either and can't buy either but I even know what they each are good for and honestly neither fit my tastes. I'd much rather prefer an E30 M3 Dinan turbo car myself. Everyone that hates boosted cars probably has yet to drive in any newer boosted car. The new 135/335's have nearly no lag and pull like mules, the same for the GTR. Personally if I was going to buy a new BMW it would be a 135 and spend the rest on some mods and have a car that was actually what I wanted and could outperform an M3. I could care less what badge is on the rear. Both were racing and dominating in different classes at about the same time. Both had versions outlawed because they were too fast. Both of their racing heritage is based on cars that weren't very close to the street cars anyways so honestly who gives a **** about it. That's like saying you're going to buy a Ford because they did well in Nascar.

[Elbow]

I dont have anything against paddle shifters, but list EVERY insane little technological thing the GTR has, and things that make the car fun.

[chituntang]

I dont have anything against paddle shifters, but list EVERY insane little technological thing the GTR has, and things that make the car fun.

Compare M3 to GTR, the only thing that makes the GTR less fun is the computerized AWD system. That's about it.

[Atlblkz06]

I disagree, paddle shifting has everything to do with talent vs technology.

I bet you I could sit in the GT-R, engage Launch control, put it in R6 mode, slam through the gears and hit good 1/4 mile times CONSISTENTLY. The only thing I have to do is steer and even that is taken away by the genius ATTESA system!

If an expert can hit 11.6 in that car, I can hit 11.8.

Take a RWD car in comparison, if an expert can hit 11.5, I can perhaps only hit 12.5. IT takes lots of practice to launch, shift and steer correctly.

[JITB]

I dont have anything against paddle shifters, but list EVERY insane little technological thing the GTR has, and things that make the car fun.


it really doesnt have as much as u think..

it has alot of equipment so u can set the car up to how u like.

[Atlblkz06]

My take:

*The average MPG thing is a toy, its not like the Japs cant do it, they just dont care to.

* The window thing: What are you talking about? If you're talking about indexing - its done to prevent water from entering the cabin. Hell even american cars do this!

* Turbos: These TT setups spool up pretty quick, dont under-estimate em! The 911TT has the same problem so its a moot point.

* Sorry but the M3 motor is sorely lacking in the torque department. You're talking about it like its an American V8, and that is simply not the case.
The S65 has 295 max torque and a VERY impressive torque curve that holds rock steady at 250ft/lb from 2k on up - impressive!

DYNO - click me (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/e90-m3-sedan-e92-m3-coupe-e93-m3-convertible-e46-m3-e36-m3-z4-m-z4-m-coupe/54101d1198260015-my-stock-e92-m3-dyno-test-result-m3-dyno-chart.jpg%20)

Exhaust: This is highly subjective, but I'll stick to american V8s in the department. Nothing quite like it! However if you want high revin insane exhaust notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYYbHvwGCPo


One of the biased things for me is, Ive owned older german cars. The things even the old german cars do, the Japs still havent done.

For instance, my 1988 Jetta GLI had a average mpg feature. That was a cheap sport fwd German car made in the 80s. I have yet to see a similiar Japanese car with something as cool.

Or, the E36 coupe BMWs windows roll down about a half an inch when you open and go back up that half an inch when you close to make better aero-dynamics.


Specs mean nothing to me, overall driving experiance and how the cars are made are more to me.

**Also, the GTR is a Turbo 6 cylinder. When you give it some hell the turbo has to spool up to get the rear end sideways.


However... The M3 is a V8 HOSS. Take off the TC and itll romp those tires at 2k all you want.


Moving on to exhaust tones.... The GTR sounds cool when the turbo spools up and whines up the motor... Where-as the V8 M3... You can hear from a mile away roaring like hells angels coming to rip your face off. :yes:

Now, to me a sports car should sound like something is coming to kill you, your family, and wreck your town in the process. And truely, there is nothing like the V8 throating sinister growl.

[JITB]

gtr has avg Mpg.. and a ole 88 mazda 323 gtx had average mpg, on the digital dash.

[1SICKLEX]

Oh the things you could do to the M3 with that extra $20 grand you didn't spend on the GT-R...

I'm glad BMW decided to be true to the M badge and up the displacement instead instead of adding boost to the mix. The E92 exhaust note is honestly one of the most deadly sounding cars I've ever heard. 8k is music.

I'm pretty biased against the GT-R. I enjoy driving my cars, not being driven by them.

I think it was Chad who on the first page called the M a "luxury coupe" and the R35 a sportscar...I'm sure someone pretty soundly disproved that one already (without reading through the rest of the thread). The M is still 100lbs lighter than the GT-R. I'm not sure why folks are complaining about the E92's weight.

I guess I'm a purist for the most part, and the GT-R is as far from a pure driving experience as it gets these days. I'll drive a minivan if I want to let the vehicle do the driving and reacting for me.

///M ftw.

Purist? Then you wouldn't like either car. THe M3 is still based on a lowly 320 in Europe. Its only 100lbs less but the GT-R has AWD. BMW has simply lost their mind with weight. THe M6 convertible weighs 4400 lbs!!!

I do agree, the GT-R is so good, it is less involving than an M3, which makes the M3 more fun to some reviewers.


Reguardless of the back seat or not, BMW makes a better car.

The M series cars are the top notch vehicles around. The are the balance between a powerful sports car, and then roll up the windows turn the A/C on and youve got quite a luxary car.

The GTR to me is just a faster 350z. I don't even understand why they made it look like they did. It looks nothing like the R34 or the previous skylines.

The M3 however, follows quite a family of stylish cars.

Clearly you have not read about the engineering that goes into the GT-R, down to the paint finish, yes 14 steps. M cars are a great balance between luxury and sport, no arguement there.

[1SICKLEX]

My take:

*The average MPG thing is a toy, its not like the Japs cant do it, they just dont care to.

* The window thing: What are you talking about? If you're talking about indexing - its done to prevent water from entering the cabin. Hell even american cars do this!

* Turbos: These TT setups spool up pretty quick, dont under-estimate em! The 911TT has the same problem so its a moot point.

* Sorry but the M3 motor is sorely lacking in the torque department. You're talking about it like its an American V8, and that is simply not the case.
The S65 has 295 max torque and a VERY impressive torque curve that holds rock steady at 250ft/lb from 2k on up - impressive!

DYNO - click me (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/e90-m3-sedan-e92-m3-coupe-e93-m3-convertible-e46-m3-e36-m3-z4-m-z4-m-coupe/54101d1198260015-my-stock-e92-m3-dyno-test-result-m3-dyno-chart.jpg%20)

Exhaust: This is highly subjective, but I'll stick to american V8s in the department. Nothing quite like it! However if you want high revin insane exhaust notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYYbHvwGCPo

M3s, hell M cars never had torque. The new ones are high revving beasts, so that makes them very involving. You really have to shift the car and abuse it to have some fun!

I have to say the M3 moving to a V-8 really appeals to me. Who can't love a V-8 coupe?

[OnURleft]

Compare M3 to GTR, the only thing that makes the GTR less fun is the computerized AWD system. That's about it.

:screwy: Clearly stated by someone with no seat time in a turbo car on a track and a high revving car on a track...back to back..
Ferrari would have the same soul with a 450hp 6800rpm 3.4 liter turbo car wouldn't they. An NSX-R would be so much fun without 8500rpm. The F40 was good, but they walked away from forced induction for a reason. Yawn.

On a side note..with new technology, variable turbo's etc. the "fun factor" in turbo cars is getting better...In a 335 it's hardly noticeable and sounds mean, but it's there. Rumor has it BMW is working on high revving turbo cars for production M's. We'll see.

[EJ25RUN]

For me its like, Corvette Z06/ZR1>>GT500>C63 AMG>E92 M3>GTR.

:thinking:

I mean to each their own but....damn.

[CHADbee]

I dont have anything against paddle shifters, but list EVERY insane little technological thing the GTR has, and things that make the car fun.
OMGFNGAWD :lmao:

did you really neg rep me in this thread cause i spoke my mind :lmfao:

cause i stated my opinion? :lmao:

you have + reps in your CP cause hopefully that will relieve some stress in your life :goodjob:

[Atlblkz06]

Of course, you're not allowed to like H shifters - paddle shifters with slush boxes are da bomb yo!

ugh, I feel so.. dirty south just from saying that! :nx:

[kouki]

GTR > M3 lol

[chituntang]

:screwy: Clearly stated by someone with no seat time in a turbo car on a track and a high revving car on a track...back to back..
Ferrari would have the same soul with a 450hp 6800rpm 3.4 liter turbo car wouldn't they. An NSX-R would be so much fun without 8500rpm. The F40 was good, but they walked away from forced induction for a reason. Yawn.

On a side note..with new technology, variable turbo's etc. the "fun factor" in turbo cars is getting better...In a 335 it's hardly noticeable and sounds mean, but it's there. Rumor has it BMW is working on high revving turbo cars for production M's. We'll see.

That's truth that I have never been on a track. I have only owned a turbo'ed 240sx and the highest revving car I ever driven is the new Si, but I am not here to say which is better. I am just making a statement for those people saying driving a GTR is like playing playstation. If you pick one sentence out of an essay and say it is false, it always works. My point is that if you want to be involved in driving a "real" car, drive a car from the 60's. No abs, t/c, whatever. There are enough crap in both M3 and GTR that drives the car rather than you drive it. That's my point.

Not everybody, including me, lives a life where you can try all kinds of cars on a track. I work my ass off putting my SR'ed S14 together, wishing one day I could see what I can do with it on the track. But time have not yet come.

So you like high revving engined cars, so be it. May be it is for you, but I stand by my favorite as of right now- turbo. With what you said about me, even I went to the track today and try a turbo and a high revving car, I would still say the turbo car is more fun. But maybe fun will change over time.

And I hate what you say about the F40 and NSX. F40 is a road version of the Ferrari's F1 car, which was turbo'ed at the time. NSX is not really credit at its engine. It is the way it handles. I love both of these cars, and what you wrote just does not make any sense to me.

The car I would love to drive on a track right now is a Super 7. No driving aids, pure driving ability.

M3, GTR, F40, NSX, whatever. I love all these cars, but not for the same reasons.

Maybe I should put it this way:

Between the GTR and the M3
If you want to have fun on the track, drive the M3. If you want to win on the track, drive the GTR.

[RL...]

GT-R > m3

but both are great!

And to those people who say the GT-R drives itself, I assume you ppl drive cars with no power steering, no fuel injection, no a/c, and no other electrictronic assistance, because it takes the fun and skill of driving away. LOL What nubs...ppl who are ignorant to new, and quite frankly better technology. Especially when I'd bet 100% of the ppl that said paddle-shifting isn't as fun as an h-box haven't even driven a paddle-shifted car. So what are they basing their opinions on?..............on nothing, but maybe OTHER ppl's opinions...:lmfao:

[1SICKLEX]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/HeadlinerG60/1214966794717.jpg

[Elbow]

GT-R > m3

but both are great!

And to those people who say the GT-R drives itself, I assume you ppl drive cars with no power steering, no fuel injection, no a/c, and no other electrictronic assistance, because it takes the fun and skill of driving away. LOL What nubs...ppl who are ignorant to new, and quite frankly better technology. Especially when I'd bet 100% of the ppl that said paddle-shifting isn't as fun as an h-box haven't even driven a paddle-shifted car. So what are they basing their opinions on?..............on nothing, but maybe OTHER ppl's opinions...:lmfao:

My car has no power steering or other aids. I took it all off. ;)

I like new technology, I have driven it, I usually turn TCS off and all, but it's cool. I like paddle shifting, I have driven exotics with paddle shifters, but not any Japanese car.

[Cool Cat Racing]

I still say its all about who wants to go the fastest. If you want to be very comfy and have a quick car get an M3, if you want to go faster and still have an "involved" car then you have to make sacrifices in comfort. If you want comfort and speed then you make sacrifices in the "involved" feel of the car. As for the car driving itself, yes a paddle shifted car like the GTR can make an idiot go fast in a straight line but the car still doesn't turn itself or hit the brakes for you. The driver still has to be good to get good times. If you want a pure fun car to drive get a Miata, if you want a fast luxury coupe, get an M3 if your want a fast ass car in any conditions wait for the Vspec next year.
Now for everyone saying the M3 has heritage or soul and the GTR doesn't. Lets look at who has held true to the cars heritage. Both cars started as homolagation cars in the eighties. The M3 was a lightweight high revving no frills performance car. Yes it had leather but they were very supportive sport seats and only had 2 doors. It was made as a purist car and had to be driven to be fast. The R32 GTR came in as a heavier, more powerful car with AWD and twin turbos to make the most out of any engine. They used technology to make the car faster, that's what you do to win races. I won't even go into the disappointment that the E36 M3 was, car got fatter, more luxury, and only a marginal power bump from the Evo3's 215hp. The R33 GTR got a little fatter but got much more rigid and some more technology and the car got faster. Then the E46 M3 finally got its balls back but it still got fatter and more toned down. It got some more power and more technology with traction control and stability control to help the car go faster. The R34 GTR weighed about the same, got a better suspension, better AWD system, better turbos, less lag, more power, more rigid, and looked the part of a sports coupe, mean yet tasteful enough to park at the country club if we had them. The E92 gained even more weight, got more luxury, more driving aids, more technology to compensate and a decent power bump to make it fast enough. The R35 is still using a 6 cylinder twin turbo AWD platform to squeeze as much performance as you can out of a performance coupe and BMW has changed their setup yet again. When you look at the two cars heritage the GTR has held very true to its roots of race proven performance and high power AWD. The only trend BMW has upheld with the M3's is adding more weight and making the car something it wasn't meant to be. Yes the M3 is the most winning car in racing history but except for the E30 the race versions are far from the street versions. And the group A R32's were a far departure from the normal GTR I know.

[EJ25RUN]

GT-R > m3

but both are great!

And to those people who say the GT-R drives itself, I assume you ppl drive cars with no power steering, no fuel injection, no a/c, and no other electrictronic assistance, because it takes the fun and skill of driving away

How is fuel injection a driving aid? :thinking: And yeah, when i had my 300zx, no ac, when i had the hatch, power steering and AC....GONE.


. LOL What nubs...ppl who are ignorant to new, and quite frankly better technology. Especially when I'd bet 100% of the ppl that said paddle-shifting isn't as fun as an h-box haven't even driven a paddle-shifted car. So what are they basing their opinions on?..............on nothing, but maybe OTHER ppl's opinions...:lmfao:

I said it.

And if i listed all the cars i have driven with paddle shifters, you really wouldn't take the time to read the list.

[OnURleft]

That's truth that I have never been on a track. I have only owned a turbo'ed 240sx and the highest revving car I ever driven is the new Si, but I am not here to say which is better. I am just making a statement for those people saying driving a GTR is like playing playstation. If you pick one sentence out of an essay and say it is false, it always works. My point is that if you want to be involved in driving a "real" car, drive a car from the 60's. No abs, t/c, whatever. There are enough crap in both M3 and GTR that drives the car rather than you drive it. That's my point.

Not everybody, including me, lives a life where you can try all kinds of cars on a track. I work my ass off putting my SR'ed S14 together, wishing one day I could see what I can do with it on the track. But time have not yet come.

So you like high revving engined cars, so be it. May be it is for you, but I stand by my favorite as of right now- turbo. With what you said about me, even I went to the track today and try a turbo and a high revving car, I would still say the turbo car is more fun. But maybe fun will change over time.

And I hate what you say about the F40 and NSX. F40 is a road version of the Ferrari's F1 car, which was turbo'ed at the time. NSX is not really credit at its engine. It is the way it handles. I love both of these cars, and what you wrote just does not make any sense to me.

The car I would love to drive on a track right now is a Super 7. No driving aids, pure driving ability.

M3, GTR, F40, NSX, whatever. I love all these cars, but not for the same reasons.

Maybe I should put it this way:

Between the GTR and the M3
If you want to have fun on the track, drive the M3. If you want to win on the track, drive the GTR.

Well said. Most of your posts should be more like this one, proving that you have great things to say. Don't take offense, it's just how I see it and how everyone around me sees it and to me it's mostly laughable to go turbo to have a better time at the track. A silent wosh and a wall of power can be nice but just about every club racer I know hair will start tingling at the though of driving that 10,000rpm S2000 or built 997 screaming down pit lane.
As far as the F40, that was probably the worst example I could think of period..As it's a high revving, screaming turbo car anyhow. Comparing a 911 Turbo and a GT3 back to back would prove my point. Also, my close friend had a somewhat built NSX for some time and between all the NSX's at track days and driving it around town I think it would have no soul without the motor. Every part of that car was ahead of it's time but part of it's success was the fact that Honda didn't take any short cuts and actually produced a chassis and a motor you'd expect from Ferrari, Porsche, BMW etc...not just a block with a snail...anyone can do that and Japan will over and over again to save development costs.
Also your mind set on not being able to "live a life where you can drive cars on a track" is pure ignorance. Go out there and do it, it's very inexpensive once you have what you need. There are magazines which frequently tell you how to do it for say...less than 5 grand. Run a search it's called BMW CCA, P.C, N.A.S.A, SCCA, PANOZ, ACNA ...all cheap..no specific make required. If your good with your social and driving skills you'll probably make friends who own cars like these and get thrown the keys at every event...No $ needed.

As far as this thread goes I wouldn't call the AWD a huge disadvantage, it's not like you can't kick an R35 sideways. They are practically rwd, it would be the drawbacks I said in my first post and maybe the lack of a real motor and sound like an NSX or GT3 if your one who prefers N.A cars.

[40th GT]

:thinking:

I mean to each their own but....damn.
Idk, i guess i'm the #1 mustang fanboy on IA.

[1SICKLEX]

Remember Audi Quattro was so incredible, it was banned from Racing in the 1980s...

Also the Skyline pre-dates the 1980s...the GT-R came later of course.....Today they seperated Skyline (our G35/37) and GT-R.

[JBalla1036]

Im gonna have to say you got those backwards. Here is why.

No matter how advanced that double clutch box is from the gtr, the fact that it is missing a "real mans gearbox" makes if fall flat on its face.



I love it when ppl say this about the GT-R, so basically ur saying that F1 cars are missing a real mans gearbox???

[JITB]

IN 5 years you all will wondered why u ever had anything bad to say about the gtr...:(

[OneSlow5pt0]

IN 5 years you all will wondered why u ever had anything bad to say about the gtr...:(

or people wont care cause its old news............none cares bout the Z06 really anymore but it was amazing when it came out,i mean it still is.....but its new smell has wore off

its just like all these cars that break top speed record,omg their the best car ever nothing can beat them........and im like" a new car will come out in less than year and beat it" then they say "no it wont nothing can touch it"

aka the veyron

[Elbow]

I love it when ppl say this about the GT-R, so basically ur saying that F1 cars are missing a real mans gearbox???

lol i'm sure you know a race cars paddle shifting gear box is a TAD more "hardcore" then a nice quiet non exotic street cars.

[EJ25RUN]

I love it when ppl say this about the GT-R, so basically ur saying that F1 cars are missing a real mans gearbox???

Yes. yes they are. In the cars we have drive since a 1920's Cadillac introduced a driving setup consisting of a clutch, break, gas pedal in the way they currently sit, that's how cars were meant to be driven.

F1 is at the extreme end. Here's why, an F1 driver is 90% mental ability. And the move from an H box to a Paddle setup made sense since modern F1 cars have aerodynamic and mechanical grip that normal cars will NEVER EVER achieve. It allows them to have cornering and breaking speed that far more impresses me than even their acceleration. In that extreme environment, it only makes sense to give a driver the ability to adjust and change as fast as the driver can think, and changing gears is one of those things. It is just impossible to do it that fast in a car that adjusts millions of times in milliseconds. It would be almost unsafe to do it in a modern f1 car

When Ferrari introduced the paddle shift setup in 1989, it was a slight advantage but the rest of the car was crap. Racing is simply "Monkey see, Monkey do". Once something is proven, everyone must have it. In later years, it was the norm. In 2008, the wheel covers and a 2nd wing element above the front wing itself take the role of this years must have techs.

I say as long as a part is not an active component....i.e traction control, launch control, active suspension, it is legal in my eyes.

A street car walks a different line to me. Should all cars have a H box. Of course not. Should most have it as an option, :yes:

Here is a sad hurdle. When BMW put a true manual in the M5 years back to go side to side with the SMG. Yes it was more involving and fun. But it was appallingly slower. Still, i would have opted for it.

Same for the GTR. If the GTR had a REAL MANS GEARBOX, my opinion would change completely even though i know the car would be at least 10 seconds slower around the Nurburgring.

[1SICKLEX]

^^I'm a lil confused, I think u mean M3. The last M5 only came in a manual.

Here is the kicker. BMW feels SMG is the best way to drive a M car, thus the current M5 had the new 7 speed SMG only. Amazingly it wasnt' Europe that cried, it was AMERICA, who said "we want a manual".

BMW finally made the option of a M5 manual. But they Won't let you turn off the the traction control completely.

So do you pick the M5 with SMG but you can disable all electronics
or
M5 that is a manual but keeps some electronics?

Porsche just debuted a PDK dual clutch and expects American buyers to shift from 70/30 manual auto to 50/50 manual/auto.

Guess what, Europe is ALREADY 50/50 auto/manual with Porsche!!

[OneSlow5pt0]

the V10 M5 comes with automatic

[EJ25RUN]

^^I'm a lil confused, I think u mean M3. The last M5 only came in a manual.
Here is the kicker. BMW feels SMG is the best way to drive a M car, thus the current M5 had the new 7 speed SMG only. Amazingly it wasnt' Europe that cried, it was AMERICA, who said "we want a manual".
BMW finally made the option of a M5 manual. But they Won't let you turn off the the traction control completely.
So do you pick the M5 with SMG but you can disable all electronics
or
M5 that is a manual but keeps some electronics?
Porsche just debuted a PDK dual clutch and expects American buyers to shift from 70/30 manual auto to 50/50 manual/auto.
Guess what, Europe is ALREADY 50/50 auto/manual with Porsche!!

..... :thinking:

No im talking about the E60 M5 (this one \/)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/BMW_E60_M5_1.JPG/250px-BMW_E60_M5_1.JPG

The SMG 7 speed manual
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/64989318_09a6b9f3e5.jpg?v=0

True Manual H 6 speed with a human operated clutch
http://www.m5board.com/images_news/73_thumb_6sp.jpg

When i say Manual....i guess i should call it a standard gearbox instead.

now i found this on wiki but i went to every BMW website and cant find anymore info on the 6 speed.

The BMW M5, along with the new M6, were designed to use the new SMG III electrohydraulic manual transmission. The transmission, while responsive at the track, has been criticized for its general lack of smoothness in everyday driving. In October 2006 BMW announced that a 6-speed manual transmission would be available in North America based on suggestions from the motoring press. Unfortunately, this gearbox reduces acceleration performance slightly. The 6-speed manual M5 was marginally slower, since the stability control cannot be disengaged as per the SMG version. The SMG III includes the "Launch Control" feature, which allows maximum performance standing starts automatically. However, the US spec vehicles have a reduced rpm to prevent vehicle damage and abuse.

Do you have a pic of an E60 6 speed manual?

Is it no longer in production?

[OnURleft]

^. I've driven one. The Bimmer store normally has one. They are all special order and limited. I believe BMW said they were only going to make a certain number but I still see them for sale new from time to time.

The traction and all that can be turned off with a simple chip..big whoop. They are slightly slower because of the gear ratio's but not much. If you can get it out of the hole you'll still do low 12's

[1SICKLEX]

..... :thinking:

No im talking about the E60 M5 (this one \/)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/BMW_E60_M5_1.JPG/250px-BMW_E60_M5_1.JPG

The SMG 7 speed manual
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/64989318_09a6b9f3e5.jpg?v=0

True Manual H 6 speed with a human operated clutch
http://www.m5board.com/images_news/73_thumb_6sp.jpg

When i say Manual....i guess i should call it a standard gearbox instead.

now i found this on wiki but i went to every BMW website and cant find anymore info on the 6 speed.

The BMW M5, along with the new M6, were designed to use the new SMG III electrohydraulic manual transmission. The transmission, while responsive at the track, has been criticized for its general lack of smoothness in everyday driving. In October 2006 BMW announced that a 6-speed manual transmission would be available in North America based on suggestions from the motoring press. Unfortunately, this gearbox reduces acceleration performance slightly. The 6-speed manual M5 was marginally slower, since the stability control cannot be disengaged as per the SMG version. The SMG III includes the "Launch Control" feature, which allows maximum performance standing starts automatically. However, the US spec vehicles have a reduced rpm to prevent vehicle damage and abuse.

Do you have a pic of an E60 6 speed manual?

Is it no longer in production?

I think you edited your post on what I was talking about. I seems we both are on the same page now :)

I thought you said the last M5 had SMG, but its no biggie.

Lil known fact, the E36 had SMG!! It was primitive but that is where it got its start!
Europe only

http://membres.lycos.fr/millmm3/pics/e36m3_1/M3smg.jpg

[OnURleft]

I think you edited your post on what I was talking about. I seems we both are on the same page now :)

I thought you said the last M5 had SMG, but its no biggie.

Lil known fact, the E36 had SMG!! It was primitive but that is where it got its start!
Europe only

http://membres.lycos.fr/millmm3/pics/e36m3_1/M3smg.jpg

Yeah some people have swapped it into their U.S cars...like E36 325's with SMG. It's pretty interesting if you ask me, i'd love to try one out